BS: Post Brexit life in the UK

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 09:03 AM

From: Jim Carroll - PM
Date: 15 Dec 17 - 12:38 PM

"Not on Europe."
Wha????
Don't understand that at all
When heve the British people ever been asked to vote on Europe other than the referendum which was sold on the idea of getting rid of foreigners?

1975

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 08:48 AM

BWM
When you say something worth responding to

You do respond, but only with personal abuse.
You clearly can not articulate an actual arument.

And, do not be afraid of my "I'll-(sic)concealed traps."
I do not set any. I am too feeble minded!

I suggest a deal.
You stop making insulting personal attacks against me, and I will stop replying to them.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 05:17 AM

THere's a move within the Tory Party to persuade May-Blossom to stat on till 2021 to avoid a split in the party - as if thy hadn't made the British people suffer enough already
Personally, I hope she does - that should **** up their chances for the foreseeable future
Mind you - 'How Much Does that Moggy in Westminster' and 'Braindead Boris' will do just as well..... choices, choices!!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 04:56 AM

From: peteaberdeen - PM
Date: 17 Dec 17 - 02:15 PM
.Brexit was a silent coup by a tiny cabal of extreme right wing zealots, sold on lies and xenophobia financed by foreign tax dodging billionaire plutocrats' Everyone knows (really, if we are being honest) it's going to be shit for the UK and on a personal, social level, needlessly destructive. just pack it in, eh?

"A silent coup"? It was the main news in nearly every form of media for a long period. Hardly 'silent'.
"A tiny cabal of extreme right wing zealots"? Actually 17+million people, which, as more than a third of the total electorate can hardly be described as 'extreme right wing'.
"sold on lies and xenophobia financed by foreign tax dodging billionaire plutocrats' "? where the remain campaign was largely financed from the public purse. Why should 17 million of us have paid towards posting out propaganda (which we disagreed with) to the whole population?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 04:54 AM

"That nicely confirms what I said, "When you can not make a case or challenge anything I actually say, you resort to baseless personal abuse. "

Only in your feeble, fetid imagination.
When you say something worth responding to, I'll respond. In the meantime, have fun with your deceitful drivel, your I'll-concealed trap-setting, and schoolyard-game playing...you really are what Musket said you are.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 04:14 AM

BWM, so the best non-feeble minded non-drivelling argument you can make is "GTFU."

That nicely confirms what I said, "When you can not make a case or challenge anything I actually say, you resort to baseless personal abuse. "

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 04:09 AM

So there never were any Labour brexiteers?
I thought there were.
I even thought that Corbyn was once anti-EU.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Dec 17 - 03:22 PM

Precisely,Pete. It's only the feeble-minded and the brainwashed who don't understand that.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: peteglasgow
Date: 17 Dec 17 - 02:15 PM

.Brexit was a silent coup by a tiny cabal of extreme right wing zealots, sold on lies and xenophobia financed by foreign tax dodging billionaire plutocrats' Everyone knows (really, if we are being honest) it's going to be shit for the UK and on a personal, social level, needlessly destructive. just pack it in, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Dec 17 - 01:45 PM

ROTFLMAO, Jim! The Biter Bit! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Dec 17 - 01:24 PM

"GTFU."
Stop feeding the troll !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Dec 17 - 01:04 PM

GTFU.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Dec 17 - 12:29 PM

So you can not find any example to put up of "drivel" from me, or of me being "feeble minded."

When you can not make a case or challenge anything I actually say, you resort to baseless personal abuse.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Dec 17 - 07:08 AM

Keefy, your drivel is here in abundance, on the thread. If anyone is insane enough to want to see it, they can look down the list of postings at the top of the thread, and pick out any of your posts. There is no reason whatsoever for me to waste time and effort demonstrating it in further posts.

Now, AFAIC, you are completely Persona Non Grata, so I suggest you concentrate on playing your schoolyard games with, and setting your childish, easily-detected traps for, someone else.

In other words, go away.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Dec 17 - 07:01 AM

Good post from Steve, 15 Dec 17 - 06:11 PM.

The idea that laws are forced on member states by a completely autonomous, unelected body in 'Europe', without any deiscussion, consultation, or meaningful vote, was one of the biggest of the many deceits thrust at us by the BrexShiteers during the campaign. And, of course, the U.K. is one of only nine member-states which has the power of veto over many areas of policy.

Yet the feeble-minded Daily-Fail and Scum readers are still blathering about 'Europe' **making all our laws**.

And, of course, the best laugh for years is the BrexShitters outrage that, having campaigned to 'restore parliamentary democracy' in the U.K., parliament has voted to uphold parliamentary democracy by having a debate and vote on the final BrexShit agreement! What a bunch of cocks.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Dec 17 - 04:46 AM

BWM,
in view of the ludicrous drivel you've posted on this thread and the Damien Green thread,

I ask you again.
Please provide an example of such drivel.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Dec 17 - 05:59 PM

We are not a member of the US.

True enough. We are a client state rather than a member state. What we used to call, in relation to the USSR, a satellite state.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: peteglasgow
Date: 16 Dec 17 - 05:43 PM

that all seems entirely reasonable, steve. however, i can remember during the debate on the brexit vote no-one wanting to leave was interested in 'reason' or 'facts' and mocked the opinions of experts or suspicious intellectuals. you would have thought that given the shambles of the last 18 months and the fact that the costs and difficulties of leaving the EU become more apparent every day that most people would have started to appreciate a bit of common market sense. it ain't happening though - in fact the complexity of the whole business seems too much for people to understand or even engage in. so it's left to the elected politicians, career bureaucrats, suspicious lefties and traitorous professionals to do all the hard analysis that they (we) never wanted to do anyway. no wonder that leavers are suspicious of remainers' motives - they should be.
i suspect that they will lose interest and drift off to some other new moral outrage to bang on about and the serious minds involved can legislate the exit away, drop the subject and sneakily (keep it quiet!) stay in with some meaningless trinkets (you can have bent bananas again! isn't britain great?) to appease the gullible and bored. hope so anyway

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Dec 17 - 06:11 PM

The EU can't be viewed as a democracy in the same way as the member states because it isn't a state. In effect, it's a bureaucracy that sets rules and regulations according to the wishes of its member states (each of which has a veto over major decisions, your European army being a case in point). The European Commission does not pass laws or impose rules on member states. It can only act on the mandate of member states, each of which has a minister in the Council of Ministers and each of which elects MEPs to the European Parliament. These are the bodies that make EU laws. Many laws, in order to be passed, require a majority of at least 18 states with at least two-thirds of the EU population. We have a big say as we have 13% of the EU population. The vast majority of EU are laws that the UK overwhelmingly agrees with in any case. Major issues such as the formation of an EU army are vulnerable to veto by just one state. That's why there's no EU army: the UK has vetoed it. One that the UK "lost" was the EU law restricting bankers' bonuses. Poor George Osborne was beaten on that one. What a shame, eh?

If there's a democratic deficit in the EU, it's driven in part by people of your ilk, Stanron, what with you lot constantly moaning about unelected bureaucrats in Brussels forcing laws on us, gravy trains (you could usefully ask your mate Farage about that), ever-closer union, United States of Europe, etc. No wonder people listening to all that ignorant claptrap don't bother to turn out to vote in European elections. That's where the democratic deficit truly is: peddle nonsense to the electorate in order to turn them off and keep them ignorant. Of course, you're experts at it. After all, you did precisely the same thing in the referendum campaign, the event with the biggest democratic deficit this country has ever seen.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Dec 17 - 05:34 PM

In America they are calling the impending firing of our Secretary of State Rex Tillerson "Rexit"

Trump hates diplomacy. He wants to attack Korea preferably after they seem to attack first.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Stanron
Date: 15 Dec 17 - 04:31 PM

I am afraid that what you detested in Portugal, Spain, Greece, Romania, Hungary, Bulgaria and the Balkan states will be at the heart of the future EU. There will be the
apparency of Democracy. Everyone will get to vote, but only the select few at the top will really control what happens. No one votes them in so no one can vote them out. You said "The EU insists on democracy in its member states, on human rights and on the rule of law". They get that in the member states but not in the EU that sits over the member states. All the MEPs can vote on is proposals from the Commission. The Commission are not elected and cannot be voted out. They are insulated from any kind of democracy. Only the Commission decides overall policy for the EU. At it's heart the EU is not a democracy. It's a sham democracy.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Dec 17 - 03:14 PM

What complete nonsense, Stanron. The EU insists on democracy in its member states, on human rights and on the rule of law. Before they joined the EU, many countries, in your lifetime and mine, had none of that. Portugal, Spain, Greece, Romania, Hungary, Bulgaria and the Balkan states were all ruled by regimes that you and I would have detested and which are never coming back - because they are members of the EU.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 15 Dec 17 - 03:04 PM

An old article for a different trade deal, but it would be relevant if we went for a 'Canada plus plus plus' deal. It raises lots of problems about sovereignty if companies can sue governments and some other court is higher than the government concerned.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Stanron
Date: 15 Dec 17 - 01:31 PM

I am not opposed to an EU army, or closer political and economic unity, so long as the UK is not involved. Europe, historically, has had a predilection to more totalitarian forms of government than the UK. Let them get on with it. Looking at the way the EU has evolved it may well turn into something as democratic as the Catholic Church. There, there is democracy for the Cardinals but the less informed are kept away from decision making. The EU has an apparency of democracy but the EU Parliament only gets to vote on what the top few ex member state rulers tell them they can vote on. Look at these top few ex state presidents, opposition leaders and prime ministers as an equivalent to the Papacy's Cardinals and the picture might become clear. The EU might end up as democratic as China is right now.

We are well out of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Dec 17 - 01:20 PM

Whether our governments chose to challenge the EU or not is completely irrelevant - the U.K. Parliamentary Sovereignty has always existed, it is the foundation of our own democracy, and a founding principle of tHe European Union.

I repeat...get an education, you thick, feeble-minded wazzock. I used to defend you when Musket called you TC. On reflection, and in view of the ludicrous drivel you've posted on this thread and the Damien Green thread, as well as a great many others, I'm persuaded to agree with him.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 15 Dec 17 - 01:18 PM

We have always had parliamentary sovereignty, the principle of the sovereignty of individual member-nations' parliaments taking precedence over any collective sovereignty of the EU is one of the founding principles of the EU.

I think the Lisbon Treaty punched a few holes in that mistaken idea.
Maybe you are the wazzock and feeble minded and in need of an education.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Dec 17 - 01:01 PM

When heve the British people ever been asked to vote on Europe other than the referendum which was sold on the idea of getting rid of foreigners?

Our ruling elite never gave them the chance.
Then UKIP came along, won the EU election and promised a referendum if they won the general election.
Suddenly the Establishment parties agreed to offer one too.

All the economic institutions warned against leaving and some are now pointing out how right they were

Most of their predictions have proved wrong. They are all Establishment bodies, supporting the Establishment determination to keep us in.

Gibberish when you remember the poodle like behavior of Britain towards the Us - including and especially the racist and misogynist thug who now occupies the White House

We are not a member of the US.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Dec 17 - 12:38 PM

"Not on Europe."
Wha????
Don't understand that at all
When heve the British people ever been asked to vote on Europe other than the referendum which was sold on the idea of getting rid of foreigners?
All the economic institutions warned against leaving and some are now pointing out how right they were
Weren't they just?
"Leavers believe in sovereignty of our Parliament, but not when Parliament demands to give that away."
Gibberish when you remember the poodle like behavior of Britain towards the Us - including and especially the racist and misogynist thug who now occupies the White House
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Dec 17 - 11:20 AM

Up to now the people have been very pro- the ruling elite - go look at how they vote

Not on Europe.

Thwey voted for Brexit because the ruling elite persuaded them

The ruling elite, barring a few renegades, tried very hard to persuade them to vote Remain.

BWM,
We have always had parliamentary sovereignty,

No. Most of our laws were made in Brussels.
Our Parliamentarians never rocked the boat by challenging anything.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Dec 17 - 10:27 AM

"The Establishment did not care about Parliamentary Sovereignty when Brussels made our laws, but now they demand it to thwart what their electorate want."

We have always had parliamentary sovereignty, the principle of the sovereignty of individual member-nations' parliaments taking precedence over any collective sovereignty of the EU is one of the founding principles of the EU.

Get an education, you thick, feeble-minded wazzock.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Dec 17 - 10:20 AM

"The ruling elite were always pro EU.
That was why the people demanded a referendum."
Utter nonsense
Up to now the people have been very pro- the ruling elite - go look at how they vote
Thwey voted for Brexit because the ruling elite persuaded them that foreigners were taking their jobs - a major factor in the Brexit referendum
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Dec 17 - 09:37 AM

Well I guess that the good ship UK will just float out into the Sargasso Sea then, Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Dec 17 - 09:04 AM

But we're going to get one now.

No, they are.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Dec 17 - 08:53 AM

Well, Stanron, the irony is that there WILL be a European army, there WILL be more fiscal uniformity and there WILL be moves to a closer union - because we're leaving. Those things could not happen with us as a member. In fact, we alone have thwarted plans for that army. We have the veto you mentioned. We won't have it any more though. Dunno about you, but the last thing I want to see is a European army. But we're going to get one now.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 15 Dec 17 - 08:53 AM

Stanron. A very accurate summary!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Dec 17 - 08:43 AM

The ruling elite were always pro EU.
That was why the people demanded a referendum.
The Establishment did not care about Parliamentary Sovereignty when Brussels made our laws, but now they demand it to thwart what their electorate want.

Leavers believe in sovereignty of our Parliament, but not when Parliament demands to give that away.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Stanron
Date: 15 Dec 17 - 06:58 AM

Of course Brexit will happen. The UK was always going to veto a United States of Europe, closer political and financial uniformity and a European Army. The down side of the UK leaving would be the loss of it's financial contribution but, as we can all see, nothing was allowed to progress until a financial deal was done. Now the EU can continue down it's ideologically preferred path unopposed by it's second largest money source. The smaller EU members can now be individually bullied into accepting closer political convergence as they no longer have adequate financial clout. The EU has to put on a show of being tough and in control but the truth is they will bend over backwards to see us gone.

Merry Mithras.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Dec 17 - 08:56 AM

"I think you should both prepare to be disappointed."
As long as they're not feeling as disappointed as you lot must be feeling this morning
A second referendum has already been mooted.... surely nobody will support a rerun of this turkey!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Dec 17 - 07:05 AM

While most commentators are saying this amendment is a boost for a softer Brexit I fear, as I indicated below, that makes a 'No' vote more likely which could crash us into a hard Brexit. The Polish MEP saying we have to have the vote before 18 October 2018 is making a similar point.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 14 Dec 17 - 06:51 AM

From: peteaberdeen - PM
Date: 13 Dec 17 - 05:41 PM
brexit? not going to happen

From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 13 Dec 17 - 07:25 PM
I have a feeling that it'll be fudged out of existence.

I think you should both prepare to be disappointed.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Dec 17 - 06:20 AM

:-D

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Dec 17 - 04:29 AM

DtG - if I told you what I really think about the bunch of propagandised, Daily-Shit-Rag-reader meat-heads who have dropped us all in this steaming, festering pile of ordure, I'd be thrown off the forum.

So I'll just stay cool.... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Dec 17 - 03:23 AM

Time for another referendum and/or General Election, I would say
A nasty case of thieves falling out that nobody can afford
Not been a bad week so far, with this and the Alabama Showdown - maybe you7 can't fool all of the people some of the time
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Dec 17 - 03:09 AM

Come on BWM, tell us what you really think :-)

Nice to see the party of the rich and powerful falling into such disarray. If it wasn't such a serious matter it would be laughable.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Dec 17 - 02:34 AM

Xenophobes, for gawd's sake!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Dec 17 - 02:33 AM

Right back at the start - when Camoron, Bozo, Farrarse, and The Lying Scottish Viper shat their boxers and ran away after they "won" the referendum, I predicted that Brexit will never actually happen. I believed then, as I believe now, that the Tory Government would go through the motions of 'negotiating' our exit, but would try to do it in a way that would give them a get-out without actually committing political suicide - hence their refusal to make BrexShit a Cross-Party project, because they would lose control of its outcome.

I still live in hope that this will be the outcome. Not for myself, but for my children, who don't deserve to have their lives ruined by the imbecility of a bunch of feeble-minded xenophobic and racists, who don't have even the intellectual capacity to know when they're best-off.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Dec 17 - 07:25 PM

I have a feeling that it'll be fudged out of existence.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: peteglasgow
Date: 13 Dec 17 - 05:41 PM

brexit? not going to happen

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Dec 17 - 05:25 PM

...so it might as well be me.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Dec 17 - 05:24 PM

Some twat's bound to claim 2000...