BS: Post Brexit life in the UK

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Jul 18 - 06:01 AM

Johnson the Braindead's present attacks of Mayflower make it obvious that he is making a bid for leadership
A fanny grabbing mysoginist President and a sexual predatory Prime minister at the same time
Make sure your chastity belts are in good order girls!

ON THE CARDS
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Jul 18 - 05:38 AM

Dave, do you really think Toyota did not know the details in Feb of a deal sewn up last year?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Jul 18 - 05:35 AM

DMcG, May has already stated that under no circumstances will we install border infrastructure, but we can not stop the other side doing it.

David,
Personally I don't want a free trade deal with the USA, at least under their current regime. It would be to the advantage of the USA, and to the detriment of the UK.

Not true. Free trade deals benefit both parties.

Rag,
EU and Japan etc could mean that cars from Japan, Korea and others could drop in price by about #5,000 per vehicle.
What price the "British" car industry if Nissan et al decide to close or curtail their operations here.

Do not worry Rag. UK has been fully involved in negotiating that deal and we will both want to keep it after Brexit.


Dave,
That was well before the new European tariff deal, Nigel.

No it was not.
Indie, "The signing in Tokyo on Tuesday for the deal, largely reached late last year, is ceremonial. It was delayed from earlier this month because Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe cancelled going to Brussels over a disaster in southwestern Japan, caused by extremely heavy rainfall."

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 19 Jul 18 - 05:28 AM

That was well before the new European tariff deal, Nigel. Things have now drastically changed and Toyota are a business no different to any other. They will do what is best for them.
I'm sure they will, but there seems to be an inbuilt bias here.

News that Toyota have pledged investment is discounted by saying they will look after their own interests, while it has been put here to counter nebulous comments about what may happen:
Another snippet I heard last night was that the new trade deal between the EU and Japan etc could mean that cars from Japan, Korea and others could drop in price by about #5,000 per vehicle.
What price the "British" car industry if Nissan et al decide to close or curtail their operations here.
Loss of revenue, loss of jobs (most in areas a that have low levels of employment at present)
Good news anyone ................?

It seems strange (but not surprising) when snippets of overheard 'news' are given greater credence than published news.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Jul 18 - 05:11 AM

Shift 3 can be either # or £ depending on US/UK keyboard layout so I thought anyone with a vague knowledge of these layouts could have worked it out. Niddling does not really add anything to the discussion though does it.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 19 Jul 18 - 04:48 AM

Archaic keyboards sometimes do not have the Euro symbol.
That's no excuse, anyone can type 'Euro', so Raggy could have clarified whether the figure quoted was 5000 Euro, 5000 pounds, or 5000 Yen. Obviously the figure for pounds/Euro are not so different, but 5000 Yen is about 34 pounds, so accuracy helps.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Jul 18 - 04:46 AM

That was well before the new European tariff deal, Nigel. Things have now drastically changed and Toyota are a business no different to any other. They will do what is best for them.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 19 Jul 18 - 04:20 AM

Despite this we already have a pledge from Toyota to continue in UK: BBC News 28 Feb 2018

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 19 Jul 18 - 04:14 AM

Archaic keyboards sometimes do not have the Euro symbol.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 19 Jul 18 - 04:03 AM

"Another snippet I heard last night was that the new trade deal between the EU and Japan etc could mean that cars from Japan, Korea and others could drop in price by about #5,000 per vehicle."

And pigs might fly!

There is a world of difference between could and would. The difference between possibility and actuality. Obviously these subtleties are a bit of a stretch too far for remoaners.

By the way is # some new currency conjured up by a remainiac?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 19 Jul 18 - 03:16 AM

I think that you are right and the deal with Japan will reduce the need for Japanese companies to manufacture in Europe. It will be all Japanese owned car factories under threat. I don't actually think that brexit changes this, they may go anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 18 Jul 18 - 06:45 PM

Another snippet I heard last night was that the new trade deal between the EU and Japan etc could mean that cars from Japan, Korea and others could drop in price by about #5,000 per vehicle.

What price the "British" car industry if Nissan et al decide to close or curtail their operations here.

Loss of revenue, loss of jobs (most in areas a that have low levels of employment at present)

Good news anyone ................?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Jul 18 - 04:26 PM

Agreed, David C. Who would want to deal with the idiot in the White House? Apart from BoJo...

Oh, hang on. Just thought. Maybe this is where we are going.

Heaven help us.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 18 Jul 18 - 02:13 PM

Personally I don't want a free trade deal with the USA, at least under their current regime. It would be to the advantage of the USA, and to the detriment of the UK.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 18 Jul 18 - 01:16 PM

Interesting comment from Teresa May to the Select Committee today:


The question session with the prime minister starts with Labour's Hilary Benn asking if it would not strengthen Mrs May's hand to put the Brexit White Paper to a Commons vote.

She responds that many pieces of legislation have been put through Parliament, and the EU knows what her government's position is.

He asks if she can confirm that a no-deal Brexit would lead to a hard border in Ireland.

She says that there is no simple answer, and in the event of no-deal the situation at the border would depend on decisions made by the government.


No simple answer to whether a "no-deal" Brexit would lead to a hard border in Ireland, eh? And dependant on decisions by this government, not the EU? Hardly the strong commitment by the government to no hard border mentioned many times on this thread, is it?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Jul 18 - 11:10 AM

So, no free trade with the US. No free trade with Japan

Why not Dave?

I am a tad surprised that no one has yet mentioned that the leave campaign have been finded for breaking elections laws.

I am a tad surprised no-one has mentioned that Leave denies the accusation and intends to fight it in court, or that Remain spent millions more than Leave mostly funded from public purse.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Jul 18 - 11:06 AM

For the life of me, I cannot see how The Praying Mantis can last much longer. She's visibly a wreck, floundering around at PMQs, her voice becoming more and more tremulous with every appearance, whilst The Blond Buffoon and Jacob (call me Jake) Rich-Mong plot her downfall (and therewith a 'hard' BrexShit with no agreement).

Well let the buggers flounder. The last thing we need is another GE, and the last thing Labour need is to find themselves in office with this steaming heap of ordure dumped in their laps.

On the other hand, the Rothermeres, Murdochs, et al, along with their rich buddies in parliament, would be positively incandescent with delight that their dirty offshoring activities and sundry other tax avoidance schemes will be able to continue without hindrance.

What a fuck-up.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 18 Jul 18 - 11:05 AM

I trust some of you have read May's reply to Johnson's resignation letter. In it she clearly states that an extra #394 million will be available to the NHS.

What she doesn't say fo course is that, according to a BBC news report, that that will be based on either huge cuts to other services and/or significant tax rises.

Brexit, don't you just love it.

Any good news anyone?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Jul 18 - 10:56 AM

But, but, but, taking are cuntry back, we won get over it, unicorns...!!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Jul 18 - 10:46 AM

Here you go, Raggy

European Union signs its biggest ever trade deal after striking agreement with Japan

I cannot find the bit about it being detrimental but it does say

At the moment, EU companies pay €1bn (£890m) of duty on products they export to Japan. Almost all of these tariffs will now be removed and 95% of tariffs the other way will also be wiped out.

These companies - including UK firms until Brexit - export nearly €60bn (£53bn) of goods and €28bn (£25m) of services to Japan.

According to the European Commission, the new deal has the potential to increase these exports by a quarter.

So, no free trade with the US. No free trade with Japan. It gets better and better doesn't it. Brexit, the gift that keeps shitting on you!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 18 Jul 18 - 09:49 AM

Caught a fractionn of news last night relating to the agreement between the EU and Japan (other Asian countries) about removing tariffs from goods including vehicles. A spokesman seemed to suggest that this would be detrimental to the UK car industry in we were no longer part of the EU.

As I said I only caught a snippet does any know more.

But never mind Brexit is good eh!?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Jul 18 - 06:16 AM

"Try not to talk to people and remember you are a mental midget Iaians"
That followed a long series of somewhat pathetic attempts to talk down those who had had the temerity to argoe with - you'd hardly been contributing to this thread for a month or so and already you has set out to belittle and insult your fellow posters and you have not refrained from doing so since
Perhaps you would care to link to the circumstances in which I made that remark - or maybe you would like me to
Always happy to oblige
You have become noted for your serial abusive behaviour - others indulge in such behaviour occasionally, including me - with you it is an addiction
Happy to link to the huge list of examples of your abuse if you wish

Before we close this thread between us, I suggest we retuurn to the subject
You have my arguments - let's have yours
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 18 Jul 18 - 05:22 AM

"AnY moron can offer insult rather than argument - they usually do"
As exemplified by your goodself!

Remember this little gem? 27 Feb 17 - 06:32 AM
"Try not to talk to people and remember you are a mental midget Iaians
People with far more knowledge and experience have had their fingers burned on this forum by forgetting their place.
You really are an obnoxiously smug bastard, aren't you"
or this 26 Feb 17 - 02:57 PM
Make up your fucking mind you mad fascist"

Plenty more tucked away jimmie. But no point in boring everyone to death, it is common knowledge you froth nonsense.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Jul 18 - 05:07 AM

"The other knuckle dragger seems to think everyone that voted for out is a supporter of Enoch Powell."
Nope - just his ideas
Like moall of your posts - your reply is totally devoid of even the effort to rebuff what has been said
AnY moron can offer insult rather than argument - they usually do
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 18 Jul 18 - 04:09 AM

" It is not a binary issue and cannot have a binary answer."

What an asinine statement.

Perhaps the knuckle dragger would like a third option on the ballot for don't know?(as if it makes any difference)
The vote underpins democracy and the issues presented have to be binary, in/out, yes/no.
The country was presented with a referendum. A referendum is a direct vote in which an entire electorate is invited to vote on a particular proposal. This may result in the adoption of a new law. In some countries, it is synonymous with a plebiscite or a vote on a ballot question.

The other knuckle dragger seems to think everyone that voted for out is a supporter of Enoch Powell. Like most of what he posts, the idea is arrant nonsense.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 18 Jul 18 - 04:07 AM

Just a word on the "probability": I agree putting a number on it could be misleading. But you can ask questions such as "is a deal more likely than a no-deal"? if so, is it a bit more likely or a lot? And so on. And I think you can put that on a scale. I agree it is not really a probability, but it is close to what people often do.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Jul 18 - 03:50 AM

One gleam of comfort in all this is that, whatever decision wins will lead to the end of this present Government and a General Election - surely!
If the people of Britain aren't given the right of a second referendum based on the facts that have emerged during this catastrophic fiasco, at least they can (or should be allowed to) make their voice heard on who should lead them out of the inevitable chaos
Those countries who will be affected by the fallout are already making contingency plans - Ireland certainly is
It is to be hoped that the Border shenanigans won't herald an end to the Peace Agreement and a return to violent sectarianism
If it does, that blood with be on the hands of the Brexiteers
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Jul 18 - 03:30 AM

I don't know how anyone would put a percentage on it, but it seems more and more likely.
I originally thought that we would get a negotiated deal, but 'no deal' would be a suitable fall-back position.
As Mrs May keeps reducing what we are requiring, and the EU refuse to negotiate (saying "that's not good enough, suggest something else" is not negotiating) then 'No deal' becomes more and more inviting.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Jul 18 - 03:15 AM

"I think the only knuckle draggers hereabouts are those that cannot accept that the majority voted to leave."
Accepting the inevitable is not an option what the decision was based on and passed for obviously bad reasons
It was sold on Powell's RIVERS OF BLOOD wet dream, and the IMMEDIATE RESPONSE FOLLOWING THE RESULT is proof posetive that that was the driving force behind the deciions to leave.

The refusal of you defenders of people's rights (if you happen to be of the right background, race, religion or colour) to even address how Brexit was sold and the consequences of its acceptance is as 'knuckle-dragging' as it gets - hiding behind the sham democracy of populism is equally prehistoric.
The refusal to view the present and almost certainly, future shambolic disruption of British life and society as a suggestion that that decision has brought some very nasty chickens home to roost beggars belief   
The "we won" midlessnes of these arguments.... Jay-sus!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 18 Jul 18 - 02:31 AM

OK, this is entirely subjective, but I'd be interested in hearing everyone's view on this one.

After the last few days I feel we have moved out of the stage where a 'no-deal' was basically a bravado-threat on both the UK and EU sides, into a very real chance of it happening. Using the informal idea of probability in everyday use, I would put the position at something like 30% no-deal, 70% deal.

What are your judgements?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 04:51 PM

Does that mean you agree, or disagree, with the idea that whether to leave the EU should have been left up to the "lying, devious self-serving shysters" rather than put to the, less well-informed electorate in a referendum?

Neither Nigel. It is not a binary issue and cannot have a binary answer. Just like the whole EU question. A completely unelected and undemocratic media also had their hand in this. As did the parties who's interest was to ensure that the proposed EU tax laws did not interfere with their salted away fortunes. The whole thing was a shambles and should have never happened. But it did and now the clowns who caused it do not have a clue how to proceed.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 04:41 PM

"I'd love to hear our resident crowing brexiteers trying to justify what's been going on."

You mean like sticking their fingers in their ears and singing, "La la la"? Or rabbiting on about "We won, get over it!"?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 04:31 PM

In my view the deliberate cheating by the leave campaign, which actually amounted to criminality, coupled with all the bloody lies they told about NHS money (bus) and immigration (poster), brings the whole brexit process into question. Leave won by a very narrow margin. Had they not used those underhand tactics, who knows how many people would have voted the other way? Chuka Umunna delivered a devastatingly excoriating speech on this in the Commons today. I'd love to hear our resident crowing brexiteers trying to justify what's been going on.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 04:30 PM

Post timed at 07:32

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 04:29 PM

"I am a tad surprised that no one has yet mentioned that the leave campaign have been finded for breaking elections laws."

You didn't read my post earlier today then, Raggy - I linked to the Independent's article on that topic.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 04:21 PM

Perhaps someone would be kind enough to link to the article on the Guardians politic page. "Vote Leave broke Electorial Law and democracy is shaken"

Thanks

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 04:14 PM

I am a tad surprised that no one has yet mentioned that the leave campaign have been finded for breaking elections laws.

One comment I heard earlier was that they were argreieved because they had not discussed the matter with the Electoral Commission.

The Electorial Commission stated that they had been asked to discuss it with them but had not done so.

So, in addition to cheating, the Leave campaign would seem to to be liars.

No doubt I will be told "we wun, deal wiv it"

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 03:54 PM

Oh fuck, now Nigels's become Keefy's Apprentice Hoop-Setter-Upper. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 03:03 PM

Dave,
Thanks for that description of politicians.
Does that mean you agree, or disagree, with the idea that whether to leave the EU should have been left up to the "lying, devious self-serving shysters" rather than put to the, less well-informed electorate in a referendum?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 02:30 PM

I don't recall ever saying that politicians were any cleverer than anyone else. What they are is better informed and have access to information that we dont. Their job, for which they have been elected and are well paid to do, is to do the best for the people that elected them and pay their wages. Instead they have fed the electorate a pack of lies and then expected them to make an informed decision. Cleverer? Possibly not. More devious? Probably. Set of self serving shysters? Definitely.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 02:27 PM

I am disappointed shaw. Surely you can generate a better response that that pathetic offering above? Knuckles dragging maybe?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 02:14 PM

Just go down the pub and ask some of the punters what the customs union is. Maybe then you'll drop the denial.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 02:09 PM

I think the only knuckle draggers hereabouts are those that cannot accept that the majority voted to leave. And as for putting yout trust in politicians words simply fail me.

According to Darwin's theory the knuckle draggers have to be in the minority because those with superior   traits achieve dominance, as exemplified by the brexit voting. Those like shaw that insist politicians make all the decisions because they are cleverer than the rest of us. What a merry jest that ridiculous supposition is proving to be.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 01:49 PM

Nobody bothered too much about being in Europe until low-foreheads and knuckle draggers like Farage whipped them into a frenzy of hate and fear

Not true. There were widespread feelings against the EU before Farage, but no party would listen before Farage.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 12:44 PM

"There we have it. Steve Shaw's basic premise is that the electorate is "ignorant" (himself included?). And so the decisions should have been taken by our elected representatives. Does he realise that those representatives were elected by the same people he considers "ignorant"? Hardly an argument for good governance!"

I take it that you do know the difference between electing members of parliament every four or five years, a throughly reversible, broad-brush process should the electorate lean that way, and an irreversible referendum whose apparently simple question was underlain by highly technical, logistical and legal problems that the country knew very little about? What proportion of the electorate could have explained the first thing about the customs union, the single market and the upcoming Irish border issue by June 23 2016? Well I don't know the precise answer to that any more than you do, but I can assure you that millions on both sides blithely put yes or no on their ballot papers without having the slightest inkling of the implications of their decision for those matters. You may want to read all sorts into my use of the word ignorant, but the really scary thing is that it has become abundantly clear over the last two years that it is exactly the right word. It certainly applies to a good few people involved in this discussion, and you are clearly one of them, I'm afraid, going from the simplistic and falsely hopeful nonsense you post.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 12:20 PM

Feck
This is what I keep trying to put up
Must get a grip on this multi-tasking lark
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/hate-crime-schools-colleges-uk-education-rise-racism-lgbt-race-ethnicity-a8183061.html
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 12:05 PM

Whoops
THis has now filtered through to our young people
THIS HAS GROWN
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 12:01 PM

The referendum was won on the basis of playing the Xenophobic ticket (Enoch Powell's wet dream) - the victory was marked by a sharp inctrease in racist incidents THIS HAS GROWN STEADILY EVER SINCE
THis has now filtered through to our young people
THIS HAS GROWN STEADILY EVER SINCE
Nobody bothered too much about being in Europe until low-foreheads and knuckle draggers like Farage whipped them into a frenzy of hate and fear
Far from offering a decent future, this massive leap in the dark has degraded and debased Britain
Populism has sfa to do with democracy - it is the oldest rallying cry of intolerance in history
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 11:59 AM

One Thousand Half-dozens!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 11:53 AM

Who wants 6000?