BS: Post Brexit life in the UK

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Nov 17 - 10:06 AM

For the record I think the term has both racist and sexist overtones when you consider who it was used about but I do accept that not everyone will see it that way.

However, if you accept it is a term that is not OK to use then the motivation behind it does not matter. It simply should not have been used. Applying the name to someone who has suffered abuse all her life is insensitive in the extreme regardless of why the person used it and says for more about Iains than about Dianne Abbott.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Nov 17 - 10:09 AM

"It may,/I> be used as a racist ploy, at times. But that does not mean that that is always the case."
When you couple it with a defence of a racist party like Ukip, it's a fair indication of the outlook of the poster, especially when he has complained (of our abusing that part in the same manner he has abused a black member of Parliament)
Coincidence maybe!!
"Oh - that's all right then!!
What kind of people are you to use personal debate in place of straightforward debate ?
It really is time he came to terms with his behaviour - he's not even very good at it - little more than crude, schoolyard name-calling, most of which he's borrowed from elsewhere anyway
All this is little more than an attempt to avoid tha fact that Brexit is an utter disaster, the only benefir it has brought is the loss of the Tory working majority and an exposé of their idiocy and ruthlessness

Jim Carroll
Jim Carrroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Nov 17 - 10:10 AM

A hippopotamus is fat, ugly, and black.

Liking Diane Abbott to a fat, ugly, black animal sounds as close to 'racist' and 'sexist' as it's possible to get. Only an insensitive clown would fail to see the connection.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Nov 17 - 10:18 AM

So don't do it again, Iains. Stick to calling me and Jim extremely childish and stupid names. It's far more fun and it can't be sexist or racist. At least we THINK you're a bloke. Anybody can be anything here, I suppose. One thing's for sure: you're a big girl's blouse.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Nov 17 - 10:32 AM

Hey, don't leave me out Steve! I am a 'poxy little gnome' remember? Although I think I could claim that to be sizeist, speciesist and suggesting that I may have a certain (anti)social disease.

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Nov 17 - 11:01 AM

Oops, sorry, Dave! I wouldn't want you to not lose too!

Another beauty from The Mash:

Brexit divorce gives Northern Ireland to UK in week and EU at weekends

THE UK has agreed to share custody of Northern Ireland with the EU, and that it will look after the province Monday to Friday and split school holidays.

After a financial settlement was agreed yesterday, the two parties have now come to an amicable agreement about the statelet with its best interests and future at heart.

Brexit minister David Davis said: "I sat down with Northern Ireland today and explained that sometimes countries, and unions of countries, don't make each other happy any more.

"But that doesn't mean we love it any less, and it definitely isn't any of its fault.

"I just hope that flash bastard Barnier doesn't spoil it. We all know he's got all the bloody money - my money - so there's no need to rub it in."

Barnier said: "I do have a lot on already and I've got committments to other countries, but I really believe we can make this work. Though it'll have to get used to spending more time with Slovenia."

A spokesman for Northern Ireland said: "This is all because of me, isn't it. I'm going goth to show them."

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 30 Nov 17 - 12:42 PM

Oh dear. Poor little mudrats. Is it the onset of second childhood or approaching senility that requires scraping the barrel for something to post. I put the Abbopotomus in the same category as you three. To be treated with the uttermost contempt.

Shaw:Calling politicians names and lampooning them is all par for the course. 'Twas ever thus. In fact, it's a healthy sign that we live in a democracy and not a dictatorship, in which "disrespecting" leaders could cost you your head. You silly little man.

Jimmie"Mayflower naused up her majority in an attempt to strengthen her hand and was forced to bung a Party with terrorist connections £1billion of the taxpayers money to clean up her mess"
The gnome." conniving scumbags like Farage"

Makes your previous posts kook rather pathetic. Doncha think? or perhaps that is the problem. You do not.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Nov 17 - 01:43 PM

"Shaw:Calling politicians names and lampooning them is all par for the course."
Racism is the level of the BNP - that is where you are at
Nobody gives twi fucks about lampooning them - bringing racism to this forum, as you have done is different
You want to point out anybody else who has sunk to that level
No?
Thought not
Not waving (or, in your case blustering) - but drowning
Nice example of mask-slipping, I'd say
Rememver - this all started when you objected to Ukip being called "scum"
"Jim calling people scum just invites retaliation, you pillock."
Now it's "Calling politicians names and lampooning them is all par for the course."
Hoist- petard - how does the sayong go?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Nov 17 - 01:52 PM

Dave,
"Is your opinion based on any actual knowledge or facts that you are prepared to share with us"

So as I suspected the answer is no, your opinion is not based on any knowledge or facts that you are prepared to share with us.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 30 Nov 17 - 02:11 PM

Hey Jimmie, you may be able to read but comprehension has to be labelled. MUST TRY HARDER!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Nov 17 - 02:48 PM

Translator's note, please!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Nov 17 - 02:55 PM

Don't prod another Troll out from under his bridge
News tonight that the DUP is threatening to withdraw support for the Tories if they attempt to negotiate a sea-border
Just as you thought it couldn't get any more entertaining
Wonder if they'll be asked to pay their bung back
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Nov 17 - 03:00 PM

I don't think they've 'ad it yet, Jim.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 02:22 AM

It would a deep tragedy if the Troubles recurred because of the reintroduction of a hard border for no better reason than to keep May more confident she can win votes.

Please don't just say you dont want a hard border. None of us do. And I don't think anyone here - leaver or remainer - can come up with a way of achieving it if our negotiating team can't.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 03:17 AM

"I don't think they've 'ad it yet, Jim."
An attempt at humour on my part Steve - the bribe is to be paid OVER TWO YEARS after which it will be reviewd to see if it needs to increase.
"Please don't just say you dont want a hard border."
The Taoiseach, Leo Varadkar, had said he will veto negotiations on Brexit if the possibility of a hard border arises - hopefully he will be truer to his word than the politicians attempting to sell a catastrophic decision to a British public who are now having too face the consequences of this pig-in--a-poke decision
The announced threat by the DUP yesterday showed all the signs of the old Unionist antagonism towards a United Ireland and as the gap closes between the two groups in the Six Counties, with the majority party maintaining its lead by one M.P., it is essential that the Peace Process is allowed to continue
Direct rule from London is the last thing Ireland needs   
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 03:19 AM

ITV reports mps think hard border inevitable


As do sky news and others.

The mad leftie bbc is more nuanced: they report the mps "cannot see how" a hard border can be avoided.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 03:36 AM

"The mad leftie bbc "
I trust this is an ironic comment - you appear to have missed out the exclamation marks
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 03:50 AM

Yes, it was ironic.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 04:08 AM

DMcG
It would a deep tragedy if the Troubles recurred because of the reintroduction of a hard border for no better reason than to keep May more confident she can win votes.

There are no votes for May in the border issue.
It is only EU/Ireland making an issue of it anyway, and no doubt they have their reasons.

Please don't just say you dont want a hard border. None of us do.

May went much further. She said she would not accept one.

. And I don't think anyone here - leaver or remainer - can come up with a way of achieving it if our negotiating team can't.

They can and have. Former Irish leader Bertie Ahern has as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 04:15 AM

On the BBC R4 news today they have been reporting what the committee said, but have not mentioned that the committee was split and that five members disassociate themselves from the report.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 04:18 AM

There are votes in it for May whether the border is land or sea, Keith, if the committee I linked to is right that a hard border is inevitable if we stick to our position on customs union.

Still, there's talk of a form of words on Monday and mid December council so we will soon see.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 04:26 AM

The mad leftie bbc is more nuanced: they report the mps "cannot see how" a hard border can be avoided.

What the report actually said,
"We do not currently see how it will be possible..."

So, "accurate" rather than "nuanced."

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 04:27 AM

The mad leftie bbc is more nuanced: they report the mps "cannot see how" a hard border can be avoided.

What the report actually said,
"We do not currently see how it will be possible..."

So, "accurate" rather than "nuanced."

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 04:31 AM

If you cannot see the difference, Iains, then there is no hope for you. You are now officially in the same league as Keith.

Different morality
Different language
Different planet

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 04:32 AM

"t is only EU/Ireland making an issue of it anyway, and no doubt they have their reasons."
How about not filling any more body bags Keith - we know that's never been a problem with the British Establishment
If the border returns it will have set the Peace Process back decades - obviously a little difficult for Little Britain to get its tiny brain around.
"May went much further. She said she would not accept one."
Isn't that the same woman who bunged the North with taxpayers money to win back a majority her own stupidity had thrown away?
A woman to be trusted
That bung went to a party who is now insisting that the only alternative solution if the North is going to remain in the UK is unacceptable.
Britain has chosen to leave the Eu and its politicians are now demanding rights that are not available to non-member states - having you cake and eating it.
"Yes, it was ironic."
Whew - that's a relief
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 04:32 AM

You are trying, Keith, I can't deny it.

"We do not currently see how it will be possible to reconcile there being no border with the Government's policy of leaving the single market and the customs union, which will inevitably make the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland the EU's customs border with the UK," the committee said.

So both 'inevitable' and "can't see" are there: it is not more accurate to pick on the one rather than the other.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 05:10 AM

It is remiss of me to rely on newspaper reports rather than go back to the actual report. So here it is.

Paragraph 47 is the one we are discussing.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 05:44 AM

These are the details of the DUP's position as stated by their spokesman
Arlene Foster has thrown in yet another bombshell by claiming in a letter to the EU Commission that Brexit will in no way effect the peace process - she has consulted no-one before making this claim
One of the issues here in the UK's security, which is already a bit of an
unexplored territory
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/brexit-uk-crime-security-worsen-europe-eu-europol-brian-donald-isis-terrorism-safety-uk-leave-a8022856.html
Jim Carroll

DUP WARNS MAY OVER ANY BORDER CONCESSIONS
Party alarmed as EU talks with Britain enter critical stage in Brussels Taoiseach to hold meeting in Dublin today with president of European Council

Talks between the British government and the European Union, with the heavy involvement of Irish officials, are entering a critical stage in Brussels, as the EU side seeks concrete assurances on the Border from the British.
There was no signal from either side about the progress of the talks last night. But the DUP was sufficiently alarmed by the prospect of UK concessions on the Border to warn British prime minister Theresa May that any concession which affected Northern Ireland's relationship with the rest of the UK risked the party's support for Ms May's minority government.
In a further development, Westminster's Brexit committee said it could not see how Britain's commitment to keeping the Border open could be reconciled with its policy of leaving the customs union.

Place barriers
DUP leader Arlene Foster said she had made it clear to the British government there could be 'no arrangements agreed that compromise the integrity of the UK single market and place barriers, real or perceived, to the free movement of goods, services and capital between Northern Ireland and the rest of the United Kingdom
DUP MP Sammy Wilson said he was seeking clarification from the British government on reports that Ms May was preparing to make concessions to the EU on the Border.
'If there is any hint that in order to placate Dublin and the EU they're prepared to have Northern Ireland treated differently than the rest of the UK then they can't rely on our vote,' he said.
'They have to recognise that if this is about treating Northern Ireland differently or leaving us half in the EU, dragging along behind regulations which change in Dublin, it's not on,' Mr Wilson added.
British move
The fears in the DUP were being interpreted in political circles as evidence that a British move was becoming more likely. Discussions between the British and the EU will continue today and over the week-end in advance of a crucial meeting between Ms May and European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker on Monday at which Ms May is expected to table the British offers on the Border, the Brexit bill and citizens' rights.
Last night, T?naiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs Simon Coveney said the Government 'cannot accept the re-emergence of a Border on this island'.
Other, EU countries were fully supportive of Ireland's position, he said, and if the British were unable to supply satisfactory assurances, 'then this process will have to be delayed'.
Taoiseach Leo Varadkar is to hold a meeting in Dublin today with Donald Tusk, president of the European Council.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 05:57 AM

So there are three possibilities:

1. A hard border (there are currently over two hundred crossing points)

2. We stay in the customs union

3. The EU allows a fudge

It's seems clear to me that the government is living in eternal hope of the latter. A hard border would be a disaster. Almost everyone agrees on that. The government has already completely caved in on one of the three sticking points in the negotiations, so staying in the customs union/single market, with all the implications for continuing free movement (as we've seen in the net migration figures, the leave team forgot that you can stop free movement in one direction only), would be seen as a disastrous climbdown (though it would actually be the only favourable outcome of this shambles). But the EU is determined not to allow an exception. The other 27 are watching like hawks to ensure that rules are not broken. That's the only way of holding such a massive and ungainly cooperative together. Special relationships and special circumstances don't add up to a hill of beans. I should think that almost every member state can claim a bit of that specialness, one way or another.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 06:40 AM

"five members disassociate themselves from the report."
Perhaps you would like to compare those five members with the percentage of British people who actually voted against Brexit - or does a majority vote only count when it supports something you agree with?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 06:45 AM

Steve,
4. We leave the border invisible as it is now.

DMcG,
Yes. They can not see how it will not be inevitable, but five of them can.

Jim, you are incapable of rational thought on this so I will not reply to you.
If you put points to me one at a time without emotive hyperbole, I will happily respond as best I can.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 06:54 AM

five of them can.

Five perhaps claim they can (it could be something else they objected to that stopped them approving the report: it is a lot longer than Iains half a postcard.)

But if they can, they could not give a sufficiently convincing explanation to satisfy any of the other 16 or so.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 06:55 AM

An invisible border would be the very epitome of an EU fudge. Well get that if we stay in the customs union. Otherwise it would be a fudge. An unlikely one, I'd say.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 06:56 AM

I've just murdered an apostrophe.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 06:59 AM

"Jim, you are incapable of rational thought on this so I will not reply to you."
Course you can't Keith
I put up actual reports - those are what you are refusing to respond to, not me.
You repeat your "five" people yet choose to ignore the 16,141,241 people who thought Brexit would be the mess it has turned out to be - very "rational"!!!
Don't worry Keith - my point was not really addressed to you in order to get an answer, I put it up to elicit the response it got from you.
That seems to be the general approach to this subject - faced with questions you can't answer, you leap on your chairs and scream "mouse!!"
That's what makes these discussions so entertainiing
Carry on not carrying on, so to speak
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 07:01 AM

"I've just murdered an apostrophe."
Why not turn it into a question mark - it seems to be the fashion here?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 07:10 AM

Copying and pasting from other websites seems to be the problem. It turns apostrophes, speech marks and dashes into question marks. Wassup!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 07:49 AM

"That seems to be the general approach to this subject - faced with questions you can't answer, you leap on your chairs and scream "mouse!!"

That must be the best comment I've ever read on this forum! Brilliant, Jim - I love it! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 08:30 AM

Jim, I said I would happily respond to any point you care to put to me, just one at a time and without all the wild hyperbole please.

Are you incapable of reasoned discussion on this?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 08:32 AM

Steve,
An invisible border would be the very epitome of an EU fudge.

No. It is what we have now and there is no need to change it.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 08:35 AM

Not exactly brexit related but a kick in the bollocks to some who support it.

Nice to have some good news :-)

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 08:54 AM

Some bad news. The Mail has been profitable until now, but The Guardian has been consistently loss-making. The National Newspaper division of GMG, which also includes The Observer, reported operating losses of £49.9m in 2006, up from £18.6m in 2005

In June 2011 Guardian News and Media revealed increased annual losses of £33m

For the three years up to June 2012, the paper lost £100,000 a day, which prompted Intelligent Life to question whether The Guardian could survive

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 08:55 AM

"No. It is what we have now and there is no need to change it."

Well that's all right then/alright then (oops, wrong thread). But I wonder what all the angst is about then, Keith?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 09:06 AM

The Guardian financials are not great by anyone's standards. But it might be more appropriate to use the latest figures rather than 2006.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 09:20 AM

I admit I hadn't heard of "Imtelligent Life" magazine so I looked into it.

It did not survive as such, having been rebranded in March 2016 into "1843" which described its coverage as "the arts, style, food, wine, cars, travel and anything else under the sun, as long as it is interesting."

Perhaps not where I would look for financial stories, then.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 09:25 AM

"Jim, I said I would happily respond to any point you care to put to me,"
Who asked you to Keith?
You really do not have anything of either interest or intelligence to say
"Hyperbole"
I'm putting up information from the press - are they really not to be taken seriously or taking revenge on you?
Why the **** are we discussing the finances of the Guardian on a thread about Brexit? (Hypothetical question - When in a corner - talk about something else)
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 09:34 AM

Paul Golding got a shot in the arm from Trump
I would like to give Paul a shot in the

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 09:34 AM

I consider myself admonished, Jim, and shall cease following that diversion forthwith.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 09:50 AM

Why the **** are we discussing the finances of the Guardian on a thread about Brexit?

Jim, it started as a piece of good news about the Daily Heil shares dropping 25%. And considering how you bring up the subject of Israel on any thread at the drop of a hat I would not be so quick to cast the first stone if I were you.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 11:05 AM

"I consider myself admonished, Jim,"
Wasn't aimed at you Mac - we've all fallen into one of Keith's black holes - I'm still a regular attender of 'Keithicus Anonymous' meetings
Jim Carroll