BS: Post Brexit life in the UK

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 09:52 AM

EU meat from the EU Nigel, not US meat through the EU.

The EU may deem it fit to apply tariffs to such transactions.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 09:41 AM

From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 09:24 AM
We'll have to buy it from the EU instead then, won't we, Nigel? With added tariffs...

Apart from the fact that I doubt if the EU will be able to provide us with US meat, when will you understand that there will only be additional tariffs (on our purchases) if we choose to impose them.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 09:24 AM

We'll have to buy it from the EU instead then, won't we, Nigel? With added tariffs...

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 09:22 AM

One for Keith, shamelessly off-topic (but used by the Tories and the Mail to divert us away from bad-news brexit). From Ben Bradley, Tory MP:

On 19 February 2018 I made a seriously defamatory statement on my Twitter account, ‘Ben Bradley MP (bbradleymp), about Jeremy Corbyn, alleging he sold British secrets to communist spies. I have since deleted the defamatory tweet.

I have agreed to pay an undisclosed substantial sum of money to a charity of his choice, and I will also pay his legal costs.

I fully accept that my statement was wholly untrue and false. I accept that I caused distress and upset to Jeremy Corbyn by my untrue and false allegations, suggesting he had betrayed his country by collaborating with foreign spies. I am very sorry for publishing this untrue and false statement and I have no hesitation in offering my unreserved and unconditional apology to Jeremy Corbyn for the distress I have caused him.

The legs have dropped off...The fat lady has sung...

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 09:22 AM

You obviously missed the line in the opening paragraph:

"And UK campaigners warn that the UK could be flooded with “dirty meat” if a US trade deal is signed post-Brexit."

Actually the third paragraph, but never mind.

More Project Fear based on: UK campaigners warn that the UK could be flooded with “dirty meat” if a US trade deal is signed post-Brexit
We would only be 'flooded with dirty meat' if we were to accept it. A US/UK Trade Deal cannot force the country to accept, nor individuals to buy, such produce.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 09:10 AM

Er, that was outside your quoted bit actually, Iains. Your speech marks ended just before that bit about antimicrobial doodah, which made that bit appear to be part of your own remarks, which then ended with your bleating remainers thingie. Whatever. Whoever wrote it was seriously misinformed. Treating food with antimicrobials during processing has no impact on antibiotic resistance whatsoever. Nowt to do with it. Antibiotics are used on living animals, not dead bodies, so antibiotic resistance don't come into it. Cooking a chicken in the oven kills microbes on it, so cooking is antimicrobial. Maybe we should all stop cooking food for fear of engendering antibiotic resistance then, extrapolating from the statement of your source (wot wasn't you, so you tell us). Of course, I'm perfectly happy for you to pass off the bad science to someone else. But bad science it was. And you quoted it as if you thought it was OK. It isn't.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 09:09 AM

I prefer to read original articles. They rely upon facts - not spin.
Where would remoaner be without the spin?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 09:03 AM

My apologies, Nigel. I should have said the comments of Liam Fox's top advisor.

Brexit is like 'giving up a three-course meal for a packet of crisps', says former top Government trade official

I am sure you will find it now.

On the subject of Liam Fox, all you did was quote him saying that chlorine washed chicken was safe to eat, which it undoubtedly is, but you made no comment on the conditions that the chickens are kept in. Not surprising really as the typical Tory does seem to care more for profit than welfare.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 09:00 AM

You obviously missed the line in the opening paragraph:

"And UK campaigners warn that the UK could be flooded with “dirty meat” if a US trade deal is signed post-Brexit."

A direct correlation to the Brexit debate.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 08:57 AM

I read the article.
I saw nothing worthy of comment in it, that would relate to Brexit.
I note that Raggytash has also only managed a two line comment, mainly about his past experience, rather than about the content.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 08:43 AM

It would seem that neither Iains or Nigel have the stamina to read the article I posted.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 08:33 AM

"Only antibiotic misuse, not "antimicrobial chemicals used in food processing," can lead to antibiotic resistance. No remainer has ever bleated any such thing as you allege. As a well-educated scientist, unlike your good self if crackpot statement of this sort are anything to go by, I'm happy to clear this up for you."

Well my foetid little friend I will give the entire quote:
However, the European Food Safety Authority has found no conclusive evidence that antimicrobial chemicals used in food processing contribute to antibiotic resistance.

I do believe their scientific credentials are way ahead of yours. The only one guilty of crackpot statements is yourself. But, we all know, there ain't nuthin unusual in that!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 08:32 AM

From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 08:09 AM
Still nothing useful to add then, Nigel?

How about a comment on Steve's linked article on chlorine washed chicken or my link on the latest comments by Liam Fox?

I've already commented on Steve's link. I seem to have read more of it than he did.
I haven't seen your link to Liam Fox's comments (I went back two pages just in case)

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 08:25 AM

Then compare with:

Link No 3

Note the Mail has a STRONG conservative bias and a poor track record with Fact Checkers.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 08:21 AM

Then have a look at this:

Link No 2

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 08:18 AM

OK have a look at this for starters.

Link No 1

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 08:12 AM

Fact:a thing that is known or proved to be true.

"Not opinion Iains, an accepted truth that has stood the test of time"

As I, and others dispute the statement is merely subjective opinion.
Let's be 'aving your proof as shaw would say.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 08:09 AM

Still nothing useful to add then, Nigel?

How about a comment on Steve's linked article on chlorine washed chicken or my link on the latest comments by Liam Fox?

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 08:06 AM

Only antibiotic misuse, not "antimicrobial chemicals used in food processing," can lead to antibiotic resistance. No remainer has ever bleated any such thing as you allege. As a well-educated scientist, unlike your good self if crackpot statement of this sort are anything to go by, I'm happy to clear this up for you.

Which of us alleged that that was a remainer stance? Or are you just setting up another straw man argument?

Having recently corrected Iains an his use of 'naïf' as a plural, you may wish to reconsider the following comment: As a well-educated scientist, unlike your good self if crackpot statement of this sort are anything to go by, I'm happy to clear this up for you.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 08:05 AM

Scurrilous! A wonderful word that trips lightly off the tongue.
Describes shaw perfectly.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 07:44 AM

Not opinion Iains, an accepted truth that has stood the test of time, unlike the scurrilous rags often quoted on here as "news" items.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 07:42 AM

And when someone presages their statement with "I find it to be...", what follows is clearly intended to be an expressed opinion, not a statement of fact, clear to everyone in the English-speaking sector of the planet except you.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 07:38 AM

The Mail is often quoted BY YOU, Iains, because it provides you with the succour of confirmation bias. And bias is definitely the operative word when it comes to that scurrilous rag.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 07:34 AM

Yes, the FT is a bit of a problem for brexiteers. It's the Anna Soubry/Ken Clarke among newspapers. A bit too Tory but always in the remain camp. Still, what do these finance and business insiders know? Take back control! Yeah! Foreigners out! Let's do deals with the newest superpower dictatorship!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 07:34 AM

" I have been reading it in all that time as I find it to be a reasonably balanced newspaper with little of the hype or even downright lies of many other newspapers, like the Mail, Express and the Sun."

OPINION NOT FACT!

Raggy you are in fine company for masquerading opinion as fact. I know an ex teacher that does it constantly!

The mail is often quoted because of all the online papers it has by far the greater number of articles.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 07:26 AM

Correct, Dave.

Paul Dacre, Nigel. And would you care to tell us in what ways you consider that the Guardian fails to provide lack of balance, or are you just saying it because it doesn't support your party?

As for this:

"The European Food Safety Authority has found no conclusive evidence that antimicrobial chemicals used in food processing contribute to antibiotic resistance.
It is just another bleat from remainers."

Only antibiotic misuse, not "antimicrobial chemicals used in food processing," can lead to antibiotic resistance. No remainer has ever bleated any such thing as you allege. As a well-educated scientist, unlike your good self if crackpot statement of this sort are anything to go by, I'm happy to clear this up for you.

This article that you linked provides an excellent summary of why we should never accept chlorine-washed chickens from the States. There is next to no regulation of welfare standards for chickens there.

https://theconversation.com/chlorine-washed-chicken-qanda-food-safety-expert-explains-why-us-poultry-is-banned-in-the-eu-81921

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 07:21 AM

"Other papers are also weighted in one way or another, but the Guardian gets a lot of quotes on here partly because it is free. (the online version). That is the reason for singling it out."

Not so Nigel, The Manchester Guardian was delivered to our house when I was child back in the 50's. I have been reading it in all that time as I find it to be a reasonably balanced newspaper with little of the hype or even downright lies of many other newspapers, like the Mail, Express and the Sun.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 07:01 AM

the Guardian gets a lot of quotes on here partly because it is free. (the online version). That is the reason for singling it out.

The Daily Heil and Guido are also free but you din't mention those. You singled out the Guardian because, in the main, it disagrees with your views and those of your fellow brexiteers. But the strange this is that the only source for any good news about brexit came from the Guardian in a quote linked by Iains. Even if he did initially get the link wrong!

Oh, and the article that started this discussion about biased sources was linked from the FT that it is not free. It has however been accused having pro-European bias by one of your fellows.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 06:50 AM

The Guardian is owned by the Scott Trust, not by a mega-rich foreign proprietor who sanctions phone-hacking, or by billionaire brothers who keep their dough offshore to avoid tax, or by the tax-avoiding Rothermere Estate, nor is it edited by a mega-rich, dyspeptic, sexist bully whose morning meetings are known as the Vagina Monologues because of his penchant for calling everybody cunts at the top of his voice. The Guardian allows comment from the full spectrum of political opinion. Its reports, unlike those in the Mail, are solid news presented in a measured way, not news mixed with veiled tendentiousness and right-wing, populist bile. A long way from perfect, of course, but they try. Nigel, singling out the Guardian for attack by a man such as yourself who affects erudition is a bit puzzling. If you think the Guardian lacks balance, I should be interested in your take on the Mail, Telegraph and Express.

I have already commented on The Daily Mail.

Other papers are also weighted in one way or another, but the Guardian gets a lot of quotes on here partly because it is free. (the online version). That is the reason for singling it out.

Which paper are you trying to describe: nor is it edited by a mega-rich, dyspeptic, sexist bully whose morning meetings are known as the Vagina Monologues because of his penchant for calling everybody cunts at the top of his voice as I don't recognise this description, and a search for 'vagina monologoues' brings up only the monologues of that title?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 06:32 AM

May I remind people of the article concerning food hygiene standards that I posted on the 21st. If these are what we can expect where we to buy from the USA I, for one, would be deeply concerned. I do write as a former member of the Royal Institute of Public Health and Hygiene.

Here is the article from the Guardian in full, it is well worth taking the time to read it.


                  THE ARTICLE FROM THE GUARDIAN

Shocking hygiene failings have been discovered in some of the US’s biggest meat plants, as a new analysis reveals that as many as 15% (one in seven) of the US population suffers from foodborne illnesses annually.

A joint investigation by the Bureau of Investigative Journalism (TBIJ) and the Guardian found that hygiene incidents are at numbers that experts described as “deeply worrying”.

US campaigners are calling once again for the closure of a legal loophole that allows meat with salmonella to be sold in the human supply chain, and also warn about the industry’s push to speed up production in the country’s meat plants. And UK campaigners warn that the UK could be flooded with “dirty meat” if a US trade deal is signed post-Brexit.


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The unpublished US- government records highlight numerous specific incidents including:

Diseased poultry meat that had been condemned found in containers used to hold edible food products;
Pig carcasses piling up on the factory floor after an equipment breakdown, leading to contamination with grease, blood and other filth;
Meat destined for the human food chain found riddled with faecal matter and abscesses filled with pus;
High-power hoses being used to clean dirty floors next to working production lines containing food products;
Factory floors flooded with dirty water after drains became blocked by meat parts and other debris;
Dirty chicken, soiled with faeces or having been dropped on the floor, being put back on to the production line after being rinsed with dilute chlorine.
All of the reported breaches resulted in immediate remedial action with no risk posed to consumers, according to the companies involved.

But campaigners warned that other violations may go undetected. Tony Corbo, senior lobbyist with Food and Water Watch, said: “While the inspectors are able to cite the plants for hundreds of violations per week, I am confident that they are not catching every instance of unsafe practices being committed in these plants.”

Meat hygiene inspectors interviewed by the Guardian agreed, saying fast line speeds and other pressures in some plants meant it was “inevitable” that some breaches slipped through the net.

The findings are worrying, according to Prof Erik Millstone, a food safety expert at Sussex University, “because of the risks of spreading infectious pathogens from carcass to carcass, and between portions of meat. The rates at which outbreaks of infectious food poisoning occur in the US are significantly higher than in the UK, or the EU, and poor hygiene in the meat supply chain is [a] leading cause of food poisoning in the US.”

Black bacterial colonies of salmonella. Food poisoning outbreaks are much higher than in the UK.
Facebook Twitter Pinterest Black bacterial colonies of salmonella. Food poisoning outbreaks are much higher than in the UK. Photograph: Chansom Pantip/Getty Images/iStockphoto
The Bureau and the Guardian obtained previously unpublished documents relating to 47 meat plants across the US. Some of the documents relate to certain companies, including Pilgrim’s Pride, one of the US’s biggest poultry producers, and Swift Pork. Although not a comprehensive portrait of the sector - there are around 6,000 US plants regularly inspected by Food Safety and Inspection Service (FSIS) - the documents provide a snapshot of issues rarely detailed in public which has rung alarm bells with campaigners in both the US and UK.

“The US meat industry has a responsibility to clean up its act,” said David Wallinga, senior health officer at the Natural Resources Defence Council, which obtained some of the documents. He said the Pilgrim’s Pride records detailed “numerous food safety violations.”

Kerry McCarthy, former UK shadow environment minister and Labour MP, called for urgent reassurances from both the UK Food Standards Agency (FSA) and “the top of government” that standards would not be allowed to slip as trade negotiations with the US get underway.

“We cannot allow this to be a race to the bottom. We should insist the US raises its standards, and guarantees food safety, before we are prepared to allow in US meat imports,” she said. McCarthy has written to the environment secretary, Michael Gove, and Liam Fox, the trade secretary, to raise the matter.

The documents seen by the Bureau and Guardian do not reveal the full numbers of non-compliance reports across the whole sector. However, one dataset covering 13 large red meat and poultry plants over two years (2015-17) shows an average of more than 150 violations a week, and 15,000 violations over the entire period. Thousands of similar violations were recorded at 10 pork-producing plants over a five-year period up until 2016, further documents show.


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Another batch of previously unpublished documents shows frequent failings at 24 plants operated by Pilgrim’s Pride who recently bought the British chicken giant Moy Park. The company slaughters 34 million birds each week and produces one in five of the chickens in the country.

More than 16,000 non-compliance reports on Pilgrim’s Pride operations detail 36,612 individual regulatory violations - an average of 1,464 a month - at the 24 plants during a 25-month period between 2014 and 2016.

Pilgrim’s Pride chickens on display at a supermarket.
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Pilgrim’s Pride chickens on display at a supermarket. Photograph: Kristoffer Tripplaar / Alamy/Alamy
In one incident, diseased meat – condemned from entering the human food chain – was placed in a container meant for edible product. An inspector discovered “carcasses of poultry showing evidence of septicemic disease ... carcasses showing evidence of having died from other causes than slaughter ... guts of carcasses, [and] poultry carcasses with heads attached.” He requested that the condemned items be removed. A similar incident was recorded some days later.

One inspector saw chicken drumsticks piling up on the floor, and instructed workers to pick them up “to be reconditioned with chlorinated water.” Again, a similar incident had occurred previously. In another incident in a bagging department, 36 shrink-wrapped whole birds were found scattered on the floor. An inspector noted: “in my presence the establishments began initiating their corrective action by picking up all affected product off the floor ... to be carried to the establishment’s designated wash station to be thoroughly rinsed off.”

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Meat soiled with faecal matter was also recorded, with an inspector noting “... I observed a poultry intestine in the liver bin. The intestine was approximately 6.5 inches long and had visible faeces oozing out both ends.” The incident resulted in the livers being condemned from the human food chain.

At another Pilgrim’s Pride plant, the records reveal how deficient equipment led to a carcass becoming contaminated with faeces. “I observed one of my 10 test birds with a spot of faecal matter on the exterior of the right thigh. The spot of faecal [sic] was … brownish green in colour and had a pasty consistency,” an inspector notes. The affected bird was “retained by management for review then sent to reprocessing for reconditioning with chlorinated water.” Similar carcass contamination had been recorded before.

Internal FSIS records also highlight numerous violations at meat plants producing pork. In an incident recorded at a plant run by Swift Pork, owned by meat giant JBS, 48 pig carcasses were found to have fallen on the floor because of defective equipment, leading to contamination with “black trolley grease, floor grime and bloody smears”. The records noted: “The line was stopped for about 15 minutes. The carcasses were sent to be trimmed first then steam vacuumed with 180F water.”

On another occasion, an employee cleaned the factory floor with meat products on an adjacent conveyor belt, creating a mist that could contaminate the meat. “This mist is contaminated by the inedible debris and ... comes into contact with edible product,” an inspector observed.

Pigs are seen in a factory farm December 2003 in northern Missouri.
Facebook Twitter Pinterest Pigs are seen in a factory farm December 2003 in northern Missouri. Photograph: Daniel Pepper/Getty Images
In a separate incident, a pig’s head was found to have partially covered a drain, leading to “bloody waste water filling the area”. This and another blockage caused by a buildup of skin led to dirty water flooding other areas. “Because of the plugged drains, an insanitary condition was created; the bloody water in the walkway could be splashed and carried throughout the kill floor after employees walked through the puddle,” an inspector wrote.

In a different part of the factory, inspectors found a stainless steel handwash sink “plugged and approximately one-quarter full of standing bloody water with pieces of fat and meat. Production employees use this sink to clean and sanitise their hands and gloves. This creates an insanitary condition.”

In a statement, JBS, which owns Pilgrim’s and Swift Pork, said all of the violations recorded were “immediately addressed” and that consumers were never put at risk. “The US meat and poultry sector is one of the most highly regulated industries in America,” said Al Almanza, JBS’s global head of food safety and quality assurance, and former head of FSIS for 39 years. “Non-compliance reports are issued by USDA [United States Department of Agriculture] inspection personnel to document when an establishment has not met a specific regulatory requirement. However, the vast majority of non-compliance issues are addressed immediately and have no impact on food safety.”

“All of the documented incidents regarding JBS [Swift Pork] and Pilgrim’s were immediately addressed by our facilities. None of these incidents put anyone at risk or resulted in any adulterated product released into commerce. Food safety is achieved by implementing processes that consistently detect and correct issues before products are released into commerce. Our team at JBS and Pilgrim’s is committed to the highest food safety standards and we partner with USDA each and every day to ensure that consumers can enjoy safe and quality products with confidence.”

Salmonella and other foodborne illnesses
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The US has shockingly high levels of foodborne illness, according to a new analysis by UK pressure group Sustain. It says that annually, around 14.7% (48 million people) of the US population is estimated to suffer from an illness, compared to around 1.5% (1 million) in the UK. In the US, 128,000 are hospitalised, and 3,000 die each year of foodborne diseases.

One bug, salmonella, causes around 1m illnesses per year in the US, while in the UK the numbers of officially recorded incidents is relatively low, with just under 10,000 laboratory confirmed cases in 2016. However, unreported incidents could substantially increase those numbers. Salmonella takes hold on farms and is found in the guts of poultry and livestock: farm animals and birds can become contaminated with faeces containing the bacteria during transport to abattoirs, where slaughter and processing procedures can also spread it.

Kath Dalmeny, chief executive of Sustain, said the figures underscored concerns about future US-UK trade deals: “The US has already warned us that we will need to lower our food standards in exchange for a quick trade deal, but we need to fight this hard. They are desperate to sell us their chlorine-washed chicken, but we know chlorine and other unpalatable treatments can mask dirty meat, low hygiene standards and poor animal welfare, which the UK consumer will not stand for.

“In recent years, the UK meat, dairy and egg industries have improved food safety; so we should all be alarmed about any trade deal that opens up our market to products that undermine this progress.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 06:27 AM

The Guardian is owned by the Scott Trust, not by a mega-rich foreign proprietor who sanctions phone-hacking, or by billionaire brothers who keep their dough offshore to avoid tax, or by the tax-avoiding Rothermere Estate, nor is it edited by a mega-rich, dyspeptic, sexist bully whose morning meetings are known as the Vagina Monologues because of his penchant for calling everybody cunts at the top of his voice. The Guardian allows comment from the full spectrum of political opinion. Its reports, unlike those in the Mail, are solid news presented in a measured way, not news mixed with veiled tendentiousness and right-wing, populist bile. A long way from perfect, of course, but they try. Nigel, singling out the Guardian for attack by a man such as yourself who affects erudition is a bit puzzling. If you think the Guardian lacks balance, I should be interested in your take on the Mail, Telegraph and Express.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 06:27 AM

From: Dave the Gnome

Unfortunately it doesn't make for balanced reading.

And the Daily Heil does?

Assuming you mean the Daily Mail, then no, it doesn't provide balanced reading either.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 06:18 AM

There are some very good arguments for washing chicken with Chlorine solutions. The downside is that if it is assumed that the chlorine treatment is all embracing, then standards of cleanliness elsewhere in the process may not be as thoroughly policed.
"Under current EU rules, the chlorine wash is classed as a processing aid rather than an ingredient and so wouldn’t have to be declared on the packaging." The European Food Safety Authority has found no conclusive evidence that antimicrobial chemicals used in food processing contribute to antibiotic resistance.
It is just another bleat from remainers. Perhaps we are all supposed to become veggietwats like corbyn of the allotment.

https://theconversation.com/chlorine-washed-chicken-qanda-food-safety-expert-explains-why-us-poultry-is-banned-in-the-eu-81921


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4462680/

It seems a specious argument to me.
I would prefer more policing of contaminated meat sold to unwitting consumers and the prevention of the substitution of hoss for prime beef.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 06:15 AM

"Unfortunately it doesn't make for balanced reading."

Nigel, one of your cohorts quotes from Guido Fawkes on a regular basis.

Pot, kettle and black don't even enter the equation. Are you going to suggest to him that he uses a less rabid source.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 06:08 AM

Well I grow my own salads and veg strictly organically, Nigel. That requires large inputs of organic matter, in my case largely my home-made compost (I have a couple of tons or more ready to dig in as soon as the weather warms up a bit - I don't spread it in autumn or winter as I have very porous sandy soil prone to leaching in winter rains. I spread thick layers of grass clippings on in the autumn and the compost about now). I've been known to collect horse manure from the surrounding fields to stack for a month or two. As my heaps are out in the open they will be visited by all manner of insects and other invertebrates, birds, amphibians, rabbits, voles and mice, and never a year goes by without grass snakes laying their eggs in there. I love them all, but, with the best will in the world, they poo, wee, die and rot in there and in move the fungi and bacteria. My veg grows healthily, abundantly and tastily, but I wash them before consumption, especially if they're not going to be cooked. In many cases, the washing of veg for commercial sale is strictly unnecessary, but the supermarkets have educated us into thinking that veg must always look perfect and without a speck of dirt in sight. I get much of the veg I end up buying from the local shop where I buy the Guardian. He sells the lamb from his own fields, situated between his house and mine, and he sells fresh Cornish fish and free-range eggs and bacon from less than ten miles away. The carrots and spuds are unwashed (therefore longer-lasting if I don't use them straight away) and don't come in sweaty plastic bags. The reason we don't have to dose chickens heavily in chlorine is that we provide relatively high standards of hygiene during their lives. And I don't want my chicken tainted with chlorine, thank you, any more than I want my poached egg to taste of vinegar. .

Treated or untreated sewage sludge is widely used on arable land. This is an excellent use for what would otherwise constitute a major disposal problem. The sludge provides the major elements need for soil fertility and the organic matter improves soil structure and water retention. There are strict regulations concerning its prior treatment and use and risks to consumers are low, but, even so, knowing all this, washing veg is probably a good idea, I'd say. The fact that you see veg in supermarkets that's been washed is in no way an indicator on how well grown it was. On the other hand, a chlorinated chicken should arouse your suspicions about the way it spent its life.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 06:02 AM

Unfortunately it doesn't make for balanced reading.

And the Daily Heil does?

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 05:59 AM

Maybe that explains why so many on here quote the Guardian: they don't charge for their content.
Unfortunately it doesn't make for balanced reading.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 05:54 AM

It seems that to read what the "more astute" are saying you have to pay Iains.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 05:34 AM

""I have expressed my views and have nothing to add until something changes."

Is that a direct quote from corbyn? As we travel on the road to "milk and honey".

https://www.ft.com/content/fb397f44-e64b-11e7-97e2-916d4fbac0da
The more astute are not buying in to his potential wondrous world. They deem it a nightmare

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 05:03 AM

Seriously, Keith, that is more like it. Keep your responses to me as short as the last one and I am sure we will get on.

Meanwhile, back on the ranch...

Brexit is like 'giving up a three-course meal for a packet of crisps', says former top Government trade official

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 04:55 AM

From: Steve Shaw

What a pity then that we won't be able to ask the soon-to-be chlorine-washed chicken whether it'd felt safe during its short, presumably less hygienic life (why else would its corpse - in the non-archaic sense - need to be chlorine-washed?)

As the linked article goes on to say:
But Liam Fox, the international trade secretary, is in favour, pointing out that British consumers are already happy to eat salads that have been treated with chlorine. "There are no health reasons why you couldn’t eat chicken that had been washed in chlorinated water," he told the international trade select committee last year. "Most of the salads in our supermarkets are rinsed in chlorinated water and in terms of reduction of campylobacter bacteria food poisoning, the United States actually has in general much lower levels of campylobacter food poisoning than many countries in Europe."

Perhaps you should also be concerned about the standard of life the vegetables led.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 04:30 AM

Steve,
"Yes there was (evidence)." Great answer, Keith! So that nails it then!

Yes it does.
Would yo like me to share some of the evidence?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 04:27 AM

Dave,
Now fuck off.

No.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 04:21 AM

What a pity then that we won't be able to ask the soon-to-be chlorine-washed chicken whether it'd felt safe during its short, presumably less hygienic life (why else would its corpse - in the non-archaic sense - need to be chlorine-washed?)

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 04:05 AM

"I have expressed my views and have nothing to add until something changes."
Promises, promises - oooooh, you men are all alike!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 03:47 AM

Will he have his cake and eat it!
Watch this space!

https://order-order.com/2018/02/26/corbyn-join-us-supporting-option-new-cake/

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 03:29 AM

From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 26 Feb 18 - 03:09 PM
Thanks for that, DMcG. So, unless we accept the yanks' lower food safety standards and, presumably, their GM shit, they won't do a deal with us. Wow. Now that's what I call "taking back control!"
Brexiteers awake!

I read the link, but it must have changed since you read it.
Warren Maruyama, who developed the North Atlantic Trade Agreement (NAFTA) under President George H.W Bush, said the UK faced a “big problem” if it went into future trade talks while bound by EU regulations on food standards.

“Under our system Congress gets the ultimate say and if we do a free trade agreement it has to pass the Congress,” Mr Maruyama told the Telegraph.

“If American agriculture is opposed to a UK free trade agreement, I wouldn’t say it’s dead on arrival but it’s pretty close. It would be a serious hurdle.”

It doesn't say we can't have food standards, or that we must accept those of America. It says about continuing to be bound by EU restrictions.
Once clear of those, we will still be able to choose what we buy. As long as labelling is clear you will be able to choose not to buy chicken that has been chlorine washed (even if it is safer than the EU produced equivalent)

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 03:18 AM

I have expressed my views and have nothing to add until something changes.

I have also expressed my views Keith but somehow you seem to think you can get away with claiming my views are expressed as facts and need to be proven whereas your views do not need any further discussion.

My view is that you are a hypocrite of the highest order and the most dishonest and devious poster on this forum by far. Now fuck off.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 02:53 AM

Sixty squared. Post 3600

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 02:16 AM

Now that's what I call "taking back control!"

"Taking back control" was always a Newspeak sort of phrase. With a few exceptions, those who incline to the Tory view actually mean 'relinquish control to the market'. Actually controlling things smacks too much of planned economies for most post-"One Nation" Tories.