BS: Post Brexit life in the UK

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 09:36 AM

From: peteaberdeen - PM
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 09:09 AM
do you really have trust in the tories to handle this well? wouldn't you (secretly) rather the grown ups in the european parliament were left to handle the important decisions (climate change, human rights, international security etc) with full input from a confident and positive UK government?

No, I don't necessarily trust the Conservative Party to handle this well.
But I certainly don't trust those that you describe as "The grown ups in the European parliament" to handle such matters.
"International Security"? Greece is the only EU country (apart from UK) which spends more than 2% GDP on defence: From the EU's own site here: Defence spending
As for intelligence related to Security, UK is in a stronger position that Europe, thanks to being part of the "Five Eyes" for details see The Guardian

So while I may not trust those running the UK, I still believe that the country has a better future outside of the EU.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 10:27 AM

Accentuating the negative is oh so easy. All you need to do is throw out a few snippets that are predicated on untruthfulness. A few phrases such as "unelected bureaucrats in Brussels," "the EU gravy train," "taking back control," "immigrants driving down wages," "immigrants straining our public services," "ever closer union," "stealing our sovereignty," add more of your own. Not one of those is based on a honest assessment of where we are today as EU members. The positives are not so black and white and far more easily demolished by little-Englander ignorance (which has generated all the above). The fact that we are a major member of a huge free-trading bloc with whom we do half our trade in goods. The fact that we are a leading financial services centre not only in Europe but in the world: there are plenty of financial institutions in the EU who are now licking their lips at the prospect of grabbing big lumps of that for themselves once the bureaucracy has hobbled us after brexit. The fact that, because you can't be in the EU unless you sign up to democracy, human rights and the rule of law, we don't have wars in Europe any more. There's a lot wrong with the EU. The EU fisheries and agricultural policies are great ideas gone bad. The bureaucracy is definitely unwieldy and top-heavy. An EU army is just a bloody bad idea. The common currency was a deal that an average sixth-former could have told you would never work properly. But as a big, influential member of the club we should be right in there fighting for reform. Instead, for decades we've acted like petulant schoolboys moaning and groaning about how much we have to pay, etc., and about all those other illusory issues I started this post with. The EU both needs us and will be glad to see the back of us. There'll be nothing much glad in this country once we're out.

As Pete said to Nigel, "you are one of the 17 million folk who have swallowed all this crap over the years so now feel justified in voting against their own and the country's best interests."

I actually think that most people now realise that brexit goes solidly against this county's interests. "Not liking foreigners" simply doesn't cut it. Trade will be difficult and finding new trading partners to do deals with will be hard, considering that we don't make much stuff and a lot of what we do make can't compete with the likes of China with its vast production scales and cheap labour. The services sector which is over three-quarters of our economy will be badly hit by levels of bureaucracy so far unheard of. We will have skilled labour shortages all over the economy as EU workers increasingly find this country a very unattractive place to come to, if they can get in at all. We've already discovered, surprise surprise, that we may be able to control people coming in but we can't control them leaving. EU citizens are already voting with their feet. I'm not voting for people who put political posturing above the interests of this country, and that includes Jeremy Corbyn, who, instead of putting up a feisty opposition to brexit and presenting the country with a genuine alternative, seems to have become totally paralysed. The interests of this country are far more important than sticking to ridiculous and pusillanimous standpoints such as "we must abide by the will of the people." As even Nigel has pointed out, it was just over a third who expressed that will. Another third expressed the opposite and just under another third kept schtum. That is not an overwhelming mandate to take all of us, especially the young, to hell in a handcart, and the sooner the politicos man up and starting bravely telling us the truth the better.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 10:44 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 10:27 AM

Another long, unstructured rant, which makes it difficult to respond to in any structured way.

Basically it appears that Steve's view is predicated on the fact that he is one of the 16.1 million voters who fully understood all the matters to do with the relationship between the EU and UK, and voted to retain that relationship, and head towards ever closer union.

I, on the other hand seem to be one of the 17.4 million who were incapable of understanding the nuances of the arguments being made. Either that, or I was being wilfully racist.

It's very difficult to argue with logic like that!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 10:46 AM

In what sense is that post a rant, please?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 10:59 AM

/rant/
verb

1.speak or shout at length in an angry, impassioned way.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 11:05 AM

Another aspect of Brexit appears to be that INSTITUTIONAL RACISM has now become an aspect of British life
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 11:21 AM

From: Jim Carroll - PM
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 11:05 AM

Another aspect of Brexit appears to be that INSTITUTIONAL RACISM has now become an aspect of British life
Jim Carroll

Nice try Jim.
If you actually read the link you made, it relates to a period before the Brexit vote.

And claims about the police being institutionally racist have been around since at least 1999 Here

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 12:08 PM

"If you actually read the link you made, it relates to a period before the Brexit vote."
The Brexit vote was sold and carried on a racist ticket - that same racism existed before the event and continues - they are two events linked by ongoing racism in Britain
As far as the Lawrence murder is concerned, the police have insisted that they cleaned up their act - obviously not the case
Maybe I should have written Another aspect of the Brexit mentality....
Same thing in the long run - especially to the victims
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 01:10 PM

"we've acted like petulant schoolboys moaning and groaning about how much we have to pay, etc., and about all those other illusory issues"

A typical response from one who has suckled from the trough of public largesse all his life.

Nothing illusory about dosh when earned by the sweat of your brow stevie boy. But you would know nothing about that would you?
That rose tinted corbyn dreamworld you inhabit has lost all contact with reality. I can see no other way to explain the inanity of your incessant witterings.
Never mind. one day you will wake up and realise your stupidity.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 01:11 PM

He got you good and proper BWM :-) Those hoops were high and you went and jumped through them. We all make the same mistake periodically though so I can understand it.

I though the proper coded response was 'TC' though ;-)

On a more serious note, it is becoming obvious the longer that thread goes on that the the brexiteers are running shit scared of being proven to have made the wrong choice. The arguments as to why we should still leave are getting more and more ludicrous as the imminent disaster looms ever closer. Just you watch, as and when the disaster does occur they will blame those wishing to remain in the EU for being unpatriotic and wishing the disaster on us.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 01:48 PM

I know, Dave - I think his idiocy is infectious! I certainly caught a dose, but I'm over it now, he's on his own.

I'm Not too sure that the BrexShitters will ever acknowledge what a crock of shit they've landed us in - just like Tory voters (which I reckon many of them are), they'll blather on about how much better things are than when we were in the EU. They'll be in total denial. But, if they do try to blame the Remainers, well that's just par for the course - I've forgotten how many times I've been told by BrexShitters to "Get behind are (sic) country", and that I'm "A traitor who should be arrested, marched out and shot". Thick cunts.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 03:06 PM

Iains, If you can read this .......... thank a teacher.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 03:11 PM

Raggt.
I was taught by Jesuits. Try again!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 03:18 PM

Hmmm ..................

Were the Jesuits also teachers?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 04:03 PM

Ahhhhh, that explains the predilection for abusing others while allowing his masters to shaft him :-)

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 04:04 PM

Financial Times re Post Brexit

Does this article give a taste of the future for British wage earners.
Does gaining control mean giving the Tory part ways to screw workers they havnt been able to access for years?

Its the same the whole world over
Isnt it a rotten shame
Its the rich wot gets the pleasure
and the poor wot gets the blame

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 04:10 PM

Kenny, unfortunately that is a pay per view site.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 04:29 PM

Hi Raggy I got it by Googling " Financial Times Brexit" and paging down for the article showin the big RED? Bus .....m it appeared on my FB but has since vanished from my FB

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 04:29 PM

"A typical response from one who has suckled from the trough of public largesse all his life."
#A typical comment from one who dredges the depths of fascist antisemitism for his arguments
Just when you thought it was safe to get back in n the water
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: peteglasgow
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 04:53 PM

iains - are you criticising someone who has 'suckled from the trough of public largesse all his life?' do you mean someone who has worked as a government employee? i've mostly done that too - teaching in an FE college, working in a homeless hostel and now working for disabled adults. is this wrong? am i scrounging or something? what a sick world you must inhabit if you think that we workers are somehow 'suckling' off tax payers. are you invigorated by the (mostly) american idea of selling off as much of our common wealth as possible to private investment? get a grip. our public services are this country's strength and our last defence against cowboy capitalist rule

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 05:13 PM

Meanwhile, over in Europe the support for Teresa May's statements this afternoon seems rather thin.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 07:32 PM

Well, Nigel, let's look again at my "long, unstructured rant." Here's a distillation of the points in there that you are clearly so uncomfortable with that you find the path of least resistance is to glibly dismiss it all as a "rant." Do note that my post lambasted not only the EU but also the party of which I'm a paid-up member.

*A few phrases such as "unelected bureaucrats in Brussels," "the EU gravy train," "taking back control," "immigrants driving down wages," "immigrants straining our public services," "ever closer union," "stealing our sovereignty," add more of your own. Not one of those is based on a honest assessment of where we are today as EU members.

*...we are a major member of a huge free-trading bloc with whom we do half our trade in goods.

*The fact that we are a leading financial services centre not only in Europe but in the world: there are plenty of financial institutions in the EU who are now licking their lips at the prospect of grabbing big lumps of that for themselves once the bureaucracy has hobbled us after brexit.

*The fact that, because you can't be in the EU unless you sign up to democracy, human rights and the rule of law, we don't have wars in Europe any more.

*There's a lot wrong with the EU. The EU fisheries and agricultural policies are great ideas gone bad. The bureaucracy is definitely unwieldy and top-heavy. An EU army is just a bloody bad idea. The common currency was a deal that an average sixth-former could have told you would never work properly.

* But as a big, influential member of the club we should be right in there fighting for reform.

*Trade will be difficult and finding new trading partners to do deals with will be hard, considering that we don't make much stuff and a lot of what we do make can't compete with the likes of China with its vast production scales and cheap labour.

*The services sector which is over three-quarters of our economy will be badly hit by levels of bureaucracy so far unheard of.

*We will have skilled labour shortages all over the economy as EU workers increasingly find this country a very unattractive place to come to, if they can get in at all.

*We've already discovered, surprise surprise, that we may be able to control people coming in but we can't control them leaving. EU citizens are already voting with their feet.

*I'm not voting for people who put political posturing above the interests of this country, and that includes Jeremy Corbyn, who, instead of putting up a feisty opposition to brexit and presenting the country with a genuine alternative, seems to have become totally paralysed. The interests of this country are far more important than sticking to ridiculous and pusillanimous standpoints such as "we must abide by the will of the people."

*As even Nigel has pointed out, it was just over a third who expressed that will. Another third expressed the opposite and just under another third kept schtum. That is not an overwhelming mandate to take all of us, especially the young, to hell in a handcart...

Whether you agree or not with what I say, it ill-behoves an idiot who tends to pepper his posts mostly with long quotes from other posters, including, tediously, the thread title, date and time of post and poster's name-PM, then one or two lines of snarky, ill-informed distemper of his own, to criticise someone else who spends a fair amount of time constructing posts with closely-argued points. Please either take on those points one by one - there they are, Nigel, spelled out for you - or just clear off with your vexatious, lazy nonsense.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 07:35 PM

Please don't respond to Iains, chaps. One day he's bound to go the way of other recent trolls once the mods pick up on him, which they will. Ignoring him makes the case stronger.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 08:48 PM

From DMcG's link, so we lose our financial services passport. I've been saying this for months, but the brexiteers gloss over it. Around four-fifths of our economy is based on financial services. Quite a chunk, eh? But once we leave we lose that passport. It means huge bureaucratic and fiscal barriers will be put in the way of our services sector dealings with the EU. We will certainly lose some of those services to the EU and the ones remaining will be hobbled. Anyone hear that in the referendum debate?   Not me!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 19 Dec 17 - 02:05 AM

Anither interesting thing in laat night's EU comments is that, even if as a result of a fresh election where the winner had a mandate to cancel Brexit - and I am sure all those insisting on the will of the people would accept that (!) - the EU may decide we have to leave anyway. Or, and I think this more likely - there would be a price for ataying and I think it would be loss of vetos etc more than financial.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 19 Dec 17 - 04:56 AM

From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 07:32 PM

Well, Nigel, let's look again at my "long, unstructured rant." Here's a distillation of the points in there that you are clearly so uncomfortable with that you find the path of least resistance is to glibly dismiss it all as a "rant." Do note that my post lambasted not only the EU but also the party of which I'm a paid-up member.

*A few phrases such as "unelected bureaucrats in Brussels," "the EU gravy train," "taking back control," "immigrants driving down wages," "immigrants straining our public services," "ever closer union," "stealing our sovereignty," add more of your own. Not one of those is based on a honest assessment of where we are today as EU members.
As an 'honest assessment' of where we are today.
Unelected bureaucrats: The EU commission (the EU's executive body) The commission president and the individual commissioners are not directly elected by the peoples of Europe and we cannot sack them.
The gravy train: your original post (second paragraph) mentioned Nigel Farage as an example of someone benefitting from the gravy train, while you are claiming it's not an honest assessment. Which is it? And while picking on Farage, why not add the Kinnock family who continue to ride the train for all it's worth?
Taking back control: You're right, it's not an example of where we are today, rather where we wish to be.
Immigrants straining public services: this is a complex question, but that doesn't mean that it can just be dismissed with a wave of the hand.
Ever closer union: is the continuing mantra of the EU, and meant that the referendum was not a choice between leaving the EU and maintaining the status quo, as the status quo was never an option.
Stealing our sovereignty: is not a claim I've ever heard. Our parliament was slowly giving away our sovereignty.

*...we are a major member of a huge free-trading bloc with whom we do half our trade in goods.
About 43% of UK exports in goods and services went to other countries in the EU in 2016 240 billion pounds out of 550 billion pounds total exports.
That share has generally been declining, since exports to other countries have increased at a faster rate.
54% of our imports into the UK came from other countries in the EU in 2016. That proportion has fallen since reaching a peak of 58% in 2002, although it's been rising slowly again since 2011.
So although half our trade in goods may be with the EU, the balance is changing, and as imports from EU exceed exports to EU the balance of trade is that they need our markets more than we need theirs. (above details from Here)

*The fact that we are a leading financial services centre not only in Europe but in the world: there are plenty of financial institutions in the EU who are now licking their lips at the prospect of grabbing big lumps of that for themselves once the bureaucracy has hobbled us after brexit.
They may be licking their lips at the hope of grabbing big lumps. That doesn't mean that we will simply give in and allow such a grab to happen.

*The fact that, because you can't be in the EU unless you sign up to democracy, human rights and the rule of law, we don't have wars in Europe any more.
We already had democracy, human rights and the rule of law. These are not things given to us by the EU. Equating the lack of wars in Europe with the presence of the EU ignores the work done by NATO. As the EU does not, yet, have its own army I believe you are greatly overstating its importance.

*There's a lot wrong with the EU. The EU fisheries and agricultural policies are great ideas gone bad. The bureaucracy is definitely unwieldy and top-heavy. An EU army is just a bloody bad idea. The common currency was a deal that an average sixth-former could have told you would never work properly.
And yet the EU continue to push for greater integration, an expansion of the eurozone, and the presence of an EU army.

* But as a big, influential member of the club we should be right in there fighting for reform.
We have tried that. Cameron thought he could get the EU to backtrack to avoid Brexit. See what happened. To the EU in general there is only one possible direction of travel, that is closer integration. If the UK was acting as a brake, in any way, it was only slowing that integration. We had no chance of stopping it.

*Trade will be difficult and finding new trading partners to do deals with will be hard, considering that we don't make much stuff and a lot of what we do make can't compete with the likes of China with its vast production scales and cheap labour.
Europe will still want to trade with us. They sell us more than they buy from us, and can't afford to lose our market, together with losing our funding.

*The services sector which is over three-quarters of our economy will be badly hit by levels of bureaucracy so far unheard of.
Good argument that one. We will be hit by bureauocracy so far unheard of. If it's unheard of, how can you factor it into your arguments?

*We will have skilled labour shortages all over the economy as EU workers increasingly find this country a very unattractive place to come to, if they can get in at all.
Any reason why you believe they will find this country 'unattractive'?

*We've already discovered, surprise surprise, that we may be able to control people coming in but we can't control them leaving. EU citizens are already voting with their feet.
Financial times shows that net migration (EU to UK) has fallen to a new low, but that is still net migration to the UK. So those 'voting with their feet' are still voting to come here.

*I'm not voting for people who put political posturing above the interests of this country, and that includes Jeremy Corbyn, who, instead of putting up a feisty opposition to brexit and presenting the country with a genuine alternative, seems to have become totally paralysed. The interests of this country are far more important than sticking to ridiculous and pusillanimous standpoints such as "we must abide by the will of the people."
Yes, the interest of the country, and of its people are more important. It's just that we disagree whether those interests are better served by us being a separate sovereign nation, or a part of the EU.

*As even Nigel has pointed out, it was just over a third who expressed that will. Another third expressed the opposite and just under another third kept schtum. That is not an overwhelming mandate to take all of us, especially the young, to hell in a handcart...
No it's not a mandate to take us to hell in a handcart. But many of us do not believe the doom merchants who say that is where Brexit will lead.

Whether you agree or not with what I say, it ill-behoves an idiot who tends to pepper his posts mostly with long quotes from other posters, including, tediously, the thread title, date and time of post and poster's name-PM, then one or two lines of snarky, ill-informed distemper of his own, to criticise someone else who spends a fair amount of time constructing posts with closely-argued points. Please either take on those points one by one - there they are, Nigel, spelled out for you - or just clear off with your vexatious, lazy nonsense.
Your 'dark side' is starting to show again.
I quote earlier posts, with times etc. as the responses may not immediately follow the original, and it makes it easier to follow what has been said. The time stamp allows other readers to see that I am not deliberately misquoting anyone, or attributing opinions to the wrong person (which some on here do).

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 19 Dec 17 - 05:04 AM

"*The fact that we are a leading financial services centre not only in Europe but in the world: there are plenty of financial institutions in the EU who are now licking their lips at the prospect of grabbing big lumps of that for themselves once the bureaucracy has hobbled us after brexit.
They may be licking their lips at the hope of grabbing big lumps. That doesn't mean that we will simply give in and allow such a grab to happen"

You obviously didn't read my post of a few days ago which briefly outlined potential job losses on day one when we leave the EU or my posts regarding overtures made by the banking and finance industries to the Irish Finance minister immediately after the referendum.

The Government, no matter which colour, cannot prevent companies moving operations elsewhere.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 19 Dec 17 - 05:59 AM

"Please don't respond to Iains, chaps. One day he's bound to go the way of other recent trolls once the mods pick up on him, which they will. Ignoring him makes the case stronger."

Meanwhile the mudrat bullies can continue without censure.

No surprise few people continue to contribute to the BS part of mudcat.

If reasoned argument is trolling then then let the dice play as they will!


and here is something for the rats to gnaw on: CBI everything is awesome

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 19 Dec 17 - 06:06 AM

You obviously didn't read my post of a few days ago which briefly outlined potential job losses on day one when we leave the EU or my posts regarding overtures made by the banking and finance industries to the Irish Finance minister immediately after the referendum.

The Government, no matter which colour, cannot prevent companies moving operations elsewhere.
I've found and read the link now: Brexity, City of London from the Guardian.
It is talking about a reduction of 10,500 jobs, but states that this figure has fallen from 12,500 a year ago. So it's just another estimate, possible more reliable than its previous one, possibly not.

The Government can't prevent companies moving elsewhere, it can only encourage businesses to remain, or move here.
there may even be a compensating movement of business to the UK once we are outside the regulation of the EU.

No one said that leaving the EU would be all gains, with no losses. many of those who voted to leave did so in the knowledge that there would be gains and losses, but looking at the overall picture.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 19 Dec 17 - 06:09 AM

"#A typical comment from one who dredges the depths of fascist antisemitism for his arguments"

A fine example of both trolling and jimmy the twerps "made up shit"

Put your money where your mouth is jimmie and give an example of my fascist antisemitic statements.
.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 19 Dec 17 - 06:09 AM

Sorry Iains, if you have to resort to blogs like "Guido Fawkes" to secure "news" favourable to the pro Brexit lobby you really are scraping the barrel.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 19 Dec 17 - 06:13 AM

Yes Nigel the figure has been curtailed from 12,500 to 10,500 but that was a suggested figure for DAY ONE.

The following weeks and months MAY see many further job losses and the revenue earned from them.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 19 Dec 17 - 06:33 AM

Yes Nigel the figure has been curtailed from 12,500 to 10,500 but that was a suggested figure for DAY ONE.

The following weeks and months MAY see many further job losses and the revenue earned from them.

They may also see a reduction in job losses, just as the past twelve months have. That seems to be the trend in their figures.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 19 Dec 17 - 06:42 AM

Can you really discern a trend from just two set of figures?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 19 Dec 17 - 07:06 AM

One more thing from this mornings press Nigel, which may put the cat among the pigeons in the financial world, is Michael Barniers statement that no "special deal" will be made for that sector of the UK economy. This in itself may lead to larger job losses and the loss of subsequent revenue.

No Special Deal

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 19 Dec 17 - 07:23 AM

One more thing from this mornings press Nigel, which may put the cat among the pigeons in the financial world, is Michael Barniers statement that no "special deal" will be made for that sector of the UK economy. This in itself may lead to larger job losses and the loss of subsequent revenue.
But Michael Barnier does not have the final say. He can recommend, but must put everything before the 27 remaining members.

If you want 'breaking news', why not look at the call to exit the EU with a clean break? Here

The more obstacles the EU put in the way, with their attitude to Brexit, the more likely we will end up with "No deal".

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 19 Dec 17 - 07:47 AM

But Michael Barnier does not have the final say. He can recommend, but must put everything before the 27 remaining members.


Absolutely true, Nigel. So look at the track record for which of his recommendations are accepted, if the 27 seem to be supporting him and so on. Then look at the track of the UK demands and which of them have made it to the progress report.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Dec 17 - 08:22 AM

"But Michael Barnier does not have the final say. He can recommend, but must put everything before the 27 remaining members."

Good grief! A Tory brexiteer admitting that those unelected Brussels bureaucrats can't actually impose anything. Pity you didn't tell us that during the referendum campaign. Wouldn't have sat well with all the taking-back-control hubris, I suppose!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 19 Dec 17 - 08:36 AM

Good grief! A Tory brexiteer admitting that those unelected Brussels bureaucrats can't actually impose anything. Pity you didn't tell us that during the referendum campaign. Wouldn't have sat well with all the taking-back-control hubris, I suppose!

Good grief! Steve Shaw describing Michael Barnier as an "unelected Brussels bureaucrat", where he previously claimed the terminology was dishonest, whatever next?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Dec 17 - 08:54 AM

Oh, Nigel, I remember you chastising Jim for not getting the joke you made about answering a question with a question. Surely you are not suggesting that you did not understand the irony in Steve's statement. Or is your response another joke that we don't understand? If so, may I suggest you stick to 'knock knock' jokes?

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Dec 17 - 09:04 AM

He's Keefy's new apprentice, Dave. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Dec 17 - 09:06 AM

He has a long way to go...

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 19 Dec 17 - 09:18 AM

Oh, Nigel, I remember you chastising Jim for not getting the joke you made about answering a question with a question. Surely you are not suggesting that you did not understand the irony in Steve's statement.
I'm glad you can see irony in it.
Steve has a history of withdrawing comments at a later date, or claiming they were 'whimsy'.
Is his describing me as a 'tory brexiteer' also irony?
If not, how can you decide what his intended meaning was?

And I'm no-ones apprentice. (or was that also meant to be ironic?)

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Dec 17 - 09:30 AM

Yeh, see what you mean BWM. Certainly picking up on the different language principle :-)

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: bobad
Date: 19 Dec 17 - 09:38 AM

You've got them retreating into their clubby pettiness there Nigel which shows you are besting them, good work keep it up.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Dec 17 - 10:29 AM

TC

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Dec 17 - 11:23 AM

I guess not everyone is as stupid as some on here

Latest poll results.

Shame they did not realise it before the referendum.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 19 Dec 17 - 11:33 AM

I guess not everyone is as stupid as some on here
Latest poll results.
Shame they did not realise it before the referendum.

Claiming that your opponents are 'stupid' suggests that you do not have persuasive arguments available to you.

Interesting that your link, to the Independent gives almost exactly the same percentage result that they gave for the last poll before the referendum: Independent and we all remember how that poll looked when viewed against the reality of the result.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 19 Dec 17 - 12:04 PM

The gnome has a very peculiar logic. The referendum results are an absolute value. A poll is simply a poll. The accuracy cannot be guaranteed. In fact some recent ones have been demonstrably wrong. So what point the funny little creature is trying to make escapes me entirely. 'Twould seem the stupid one is he.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Dec 17 - 01:05 PM

2100...