BS: Post Brexit life in the UK

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Feb 18 - 01:11 PM

"A bit like jimmies little englanders"
No capitals, no commas, woth Ireland, name spelt incorrectly
How are your kids in English ?
Hope they don't look on you as an example . Perhaps jimmy has spent too much "littlepeople"
Are they racists like their old man?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 15 Feb 18 - 12:58 PM

Although I am of sufficient Irish descent to get a passport, I don't feel qualified to make more than this one comment. Jim is absolutely right, in my view, when he refers to "Irish culture, north and south is based on the Irish language".

This is, on both sides, about personal sense of identity. The number of people who speak Irish, and how good they are at it, is irrelevant, since it is about how people see themselves, not proving the accuracy of that perception.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 15 Feb 18 - 12:20 PM

I have three children educated in Ireland. They may have learnt Irish, the same as I learnt Latin and French. They are certainly not bilingual. According to the 2016 Republic of Ireland census 73,803 people speak the Irish language daily in the Republic of Ireland outside the education system including 20,586 people who speak it every day in the Gaeltacht outside the education system.According to the 2011 census, 1.77 million people in Ireland claimed they could speak Irish, which is 41% of the population. While this looks impressive on paper, it says nothing about the level of Irish people have or if they ever use it. Bit of a disconnect there I think.
A bit like jimmies little englanders. I did not know we had an English race of dwarfs, I always thought the little people were something to do woth Ireland. Perhaps jimmy has spent too much time with the littlepeople. In his case away with the faeries.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Feb 18 - 11:25 AM

"No point at all other than your fearless leader has a few character defects. "
He doesn't give Billions-worth of bungs to politicians with terrorist links
"even though no-one speaks it in the North."
Are you joking Keith?
Even if it were true, which it patently is not, Irish culture, north and south is based on the Irish language
Arlene Foster actually agree in a compromise and took it back to her party - the rednecks threw it back in her face
Irish kids (even the "brainwashed" ones) have managed reasonably well to become bi-lingual ansd anybody knows, once you develop linguistic skills to that level, it becomes much easier to learn other languages
You Little Englanders certainly are a blast from the Imperial past
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Feb 18 - 10:34 AM

No-one has suggested that Irish should replace English in Northern Ireland. FACT.

Sigh. That's OK, Raggy - just the usual fact-filled post from The Professor.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 15 Feb 18 - 09:53 AM

About 10% of the population of Northern Ireland can speak the Irish Language. In the Republic many people are bi-lingual but English remains the major Language.

No-one has suggested that Irish should replace English in Northern Ireland. FACT.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Feb 18 - 05:48 AM

Iains, old chap, let me remind you that targeting Corbyn at the expense of actually discussing the substantive is precisely what lost the feckless Theresa May her majority. Don't let us stop you, of course.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Feb 18 - 05:44 AM

Are you trying to be alarmist again, Nigel? That was a pretty anodyne piece, n'est-ce pas? I mean:

"We do not need a budget for the Euro area..." Agreed!

"I am also not fond of the idea of having a separate euro area parliament... The Parliament of the euro area is this European Parliament." Agreed!

"...The European Economy and Finance Minister must be accountable to the European Parliament." Agreed!

The European Parliament, an elected body Nigel, is sovereign. The commissioners can't sneak stuff past it as Theresa May has tried to do with our parliament with her Article 50 fiasco and her Henry VIII bill. Big proposed moves can be and are vetoed. You are clutching at straws and have made no case whatsoever.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Feb 18 - 05:44 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 15 Feb 18 - 05:40 AM

so what was your point, Iains?
No point at all other than your fearless leader has a few character defects. Maybe you will bear it in mind next time you babble on about weeds, cheeses, long walks and other irrelevancies when derailing threads. Sauce for the goose and al that.,.

Anyway more little gems on Saint Jeremy of Islington and the Allotments:

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/02/jeremy-corbyn-and-his-followers-are-in-denial-about-his-past/

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Feb 18 - 05:17 AM

Iains
The Czech secret police files claim Corbyn gave them a newspaper article about MI5 and discussed his take on British security measures

The problem is that the Czech secret police are not an organisation that can be trusted to tell the truth. Nor is the Sun.

None of which has anything to do with Brexit, so what was your point, Iains?

Good holiday, Keith?

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Feb 18 - 05:01 AM

Jim,
Arlene Foster has waked out of the The Irish Peace discussions,

The problem is that Sinn Fein demand legal recognition for the Irish language even though no-one speaks it in the North.
The DUP would be fine with that as long as there is also recognition for the majority culture, but Sinn Fein insists it must be Irish language alone or nothing.

None of which has anything to do with Brexit, so what was your point Jim?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 15 Feb 18 - 04:46 AM

Worth reading closely the legalistic wording of this statement provided to the Sun by “Agent COB”: concerning corbyn.

    “The claim that he was an agent, asset or informer for any intelligence agency is entirely false and a ridiculous smear. Like other MPs, Jeremy has met diplomats from many countries. In the 1980s he met a Czech diplomat, who did not go by the name of Jan Dymic, for a cup of tea in the House of Commons. Jeremy neither had nor offered any privileged information to this or any other diplomat.”

Jezza says he “neither had nor offered” any “privileged information” to the Czech spy. That is denying something different. The Czech secret police files claim Corbyn gave them a newspaper article about MI5 and discussed his take on British security measures, neither of which would count as “privileged“. There is no denial from Corbyn that he passed information to Britain’s enemies at the height of the Cold War. What did he talk to them about? Was he really naive enough to believe this was just a “diplomat”? Many questions to answer…

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 15 Feb 18 - 04:39 AM

From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Feb 18 - 04:47 PM

One for Nigel. BBC News website.

The president of the European Commission has said claims he wants to create a European "superstate" are "total nonsense".
Jean-Claude Juncker said some Britons wrongly saw him as a "stupid, stubborn federalist".
He was responding to a speech about Brexit by UK Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson.
Mr Johnson said the EU wanted to create an "overarching European state" and that integration was deepening...

...Asked about the foreign secretary's remarks, Mr Juncker replied: "Some in the British political society are against the truth, pretending that I am a stupid, stubborn federalist, that I am in favour of a European superstate.
"I am strictly against a European superstate. We are not the United States of America, we are the European Union, which is a rich body because we have these 27, or 28, nations.
"The European Union cannot be built against the European nations, so this is total nonsense."

This from the same Mr Juncker who, in his state of the union address 2017 was calling for a single Finance Minister for the EU, and a European Monetary Fund:

Europe has to be able to act quicker and more decisively, and this also applies to theEconomic and Monetary Union.

The euro area is more resilient now than in years past. We now have the European Stabilisation Mechanism (ESM). I believe the ESM should now progressively graduate into a European Monetary Fund which, however, must be firmly anchored in the European Union's rules and competences. The Commission will make concrete proposals for this in December.

We need a European Minister of Economy and Finance: a European Minister that promotes and supports structural reforms in our Member States. He or she can build on the work the Commission has been doing since 2015 with our Structural Reform Support Service. The new Minister should coordinate all EU financial instruments that can be deployed if a Member State is in a recession or hit by a fundamental crisis.

I am not calling for a new position just for the sake of it. I am calling for efficiency. The Commissioner for economic and financial affairs ; ideally also a Vice-President ; should assume the role of Economy and Finance Minister. He or she should also preside the Eurogroup.

The European Economy and Finance Minister must be accountable to the European Parliament.

We do not need parallel structures. We do not need a budget for the Euro area but a strong Euro area budget line within the EU budget.

I am also not fond of the idea of having a separate euro area parliament.

The Parliament of the euro area is this European Parliament.

That looks to me like 'federalist' ideals.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Feb 18 - 04:37 AM

Blimey, talk about feeding on thin gruel! Nice pic of the Tyn Church in Prague though. I loved it.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Feb 18 - 04:29 AM

There is no such evidence, DMcG, which is why those supporting brexit on here are using every trick in the book to obfuscate that very point. As I said earlier it is blatantly obvious that they cannot find any such reports.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 15 Feb 18 - 04:12 AM

Even it that is true about Corbyn - and I make no statement either way - in what sense is it evidence Brexit will benefit the country?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Feb 18 - 03:57 AM

"Yes we are finding out more aboutcommie corbyn."
What a load of Cold-War garbage from a perfect source - a tabloid bumwipe - The Sun, for cryig out loud!!
A bit rich from a supporter of a government who has recently bunged a political party with known terrorist connections ?billion of the BRITISH TAXPAYER'S MONEY to dig themselves out of a hole created by an incompetent leader
That same Government is now in the process of breaking up the British Union with it's incompetence - once again with the help of the same party with terrorist connections
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 15 Feb 18 - 03:30 AM

Yes we are finding out more aboutcommie corbyn.
No smoke without fire now is there boyo?

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5581166/jeremy-corbyn-communist-spy-cold-war-briefings/

You remoaners keep some dodgy company!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Feb 18 - 02:55 AM

Still no positive news being reported then, Iains? Even by the anti-EU press?

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 15 Feb 18 - 02:10 AM

Jaoan thinks Brexit an act of self harm according to UK ambassador

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Feb 18 - 04:47 PM

One for Nigel. BBC News website.

The president of the European Commission has said claims he wants to create a European "superstate" are "total nonsense".
Jean-Claude Juncker said some Britons wrongly saw him as a "stupid, stubborn federalist".
He was responding to a speech about Brexit by UK Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson.
Mr Johnson said the EU wanted to create an "overarching European state" and that integration was deepening...

...Asked about the foreign secretary's remarks, Mr Juncker replied: "Some in the British political society are against the truth, pretending that I am a stupid, stubborn federalist, that I am in favour of a European superstate.
"I am strictly against a European superstate. We are not the United States of America, we are the European Union, which is a rich body because we have these 27, or 28, nations.
"The European Union cannot be built against the European nations, so this is total nonsense."

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 14 Feb 18 - 03:52 PM

More scare stories from the remoaners.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DySJslyy6b4

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Feb 18 - 01:39 PM

I know what you mean, SPB, but we did abolish capital punishment before we joined the EU. I don't think we need to go to such extremes to underline the dangers. There are plenty ways in which people are going to be damaged without such tenuous links.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 14 Feb 18 - 01:29 PM

The other disturbing thing that is at the back of my mind is that if UK leaves EU there would be no safeguards against restoring capital punishment in the UK.

The upshot of that is that a jury of decent people could be forced to find a child murderer not guilty on principle, putting other children at risk rather than being party to putting someone to death.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Feb 18 - 01:17 PM

Most disturbing damage by Brexit has just been announced
Arlene Foster has waked out of the The Irish Peace discussions, leaving the future of the Six Counties in doubt and the possibility of an outbreak of hostilities
Well done Little England
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Feb 18 - 01:14 PM

Have I said that before?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Feb 18 - 01:13 PM

So, even though none of you can let us know any benefits of leaving the EU, you still voted to do so just on the basis that it will somehow be better when it happens. Your only response to anyone who wishes to remain is to tell them 'tough luck' or that they are deluded and resort to abuse.

Come on chaps. If leaving is going to be the panacea that you believe it will be give us something to be optimistic about. What is post brexit life going to be like if none of the economists, business leaders and politicians who want us to remain are so wrong?

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Feb 18 - 01:13 PM

So, even though none of you can let us know any benefits of leaving the EU, you still voted to do so just on the basis that it will somehow be better when it happens. Your only response to anyone who wishes to remain is to tell them 'tough luck' or that they are deluded and resort to abuse.

Come on chaps. If leaving is going to be the panacea that you believe it will be give us something to be optimistic about. What is post brexit life going to be like if none of the economists, business leaders and politicians who want us to remain are so wrong?

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 14 Feb 18 - 12:25 PM

Greg. Away with the faeries again? Are you simply tripping by or attempting to troll?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Feb 18 - 11:43 AM

So God favors Brexit, then. In the Bible- must be true.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 14 Feb 18 - 11:28 AM

D the G.
Acts 2:17-38 King James Version(first line)
When it has come to pass it will become established fact. Supposing what might be prior to this point is merely conjecture, and therefore meaningless.
I suggest you hop back on the magic roundabout and keep going around.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3DcChXNyYQ

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Feb 18 - 10:00 AM

"It may be that, without the UK holding things back, the ever closer union will progress more quickly, but it would have happened anyway."

You really are hanging on to this for dear life, aren't you? Ever closer union requires steps over which we have a veto, Nigel. Those steps can't happen at all without our say so. It would not "happen anyway." We have already stopped any moves towards an European army. Of course, without our influence, undesirable things MAY occur in what will still be our biggest trading partner, and we will have no say in the trading rules that we will still have to stick to. Oh, and tariffs. Making spiffin' deals with the likes of China and the US will take years and years, all in the context of their protectionism and, in many cases, low standards. Of course, the elephant in the room is our financial services sector, which we still aren't hearing much about in spite if its being four-fifths of our economy. You won't be getting much from the US and China on that score.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Feb 18 - 09:49 AM

I much prefer to deal in facts.

OK, some facts about what will happen when we leave the EU then.

We will no longer be entitled to unrestricted travel and employment in Europe.

We will no longer be part of the biggest trading organisation in the world.

Now, give us some facts about the benefits.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 14 Feb 18 - 09:14 AM

What on earth do you want forecasts for? You will be demanding the study of tea leaves,entrails, scattered chicken bones and other kinds of augury next. I am afraid my religion forbids any kind of divination. I much prefer to deal in facts. Even shaw cannot dispute them. I would have thought you would have learnt your lesson from the referendum forecasts.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Feb 18 - 09:00 AM

Why just highlight the part that you think supports your case, Nigel? Do you not think it significant that I went on to explain that "My children and children's children would have been free to work anywhere in Europe and we still would have been part of the biggest trading organisation in the world."? That is the indisputable fact of the matter. Someone else deciding what change we wanted is a complete red herring. The UK has always been instrumental in decision making for both itself and the EU.

But you now seem to channeling Iains in diverting attention from that fact that there are no reports that justify your optimism. Can we get back to the point. Are there any positive forecasts about post brexit life?

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 14 Feb 18 - 08:44 AM

However, if the decision had been to remain then nothing would have changed. My children and children's children would have been free to work anywhere in Europe and we still would have been part of the biggest trading organisation in the world. There is no baseless optimism in that.

That was a major failing in the Remain campaign. It was based on the idea that the choice was between the changes that would occur if we left, and the lack of change if we remained. But there was never a promise of the status quo if we remained. EU was always going to be about ever closer union.
It may be that, without the UK holding things back, the ever closer union will progress more quickly, but it would have happened anyway.

It was never 'Change vs Status Quo' it was always going to be about who decided what change we wanted.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Feb 18 - 08:24 AM

That is of course just speculation as it did not go 'the other way' did it?

However, if the decision had been to remain then nothing would have changed. My children and children's children would have been free to work anywhere in Europe and we still would have been part of the biggest trading organisation in the world. There is no baseless optimism in that. It is a fact. If you are basing your optimism on the other mans grass being greener then I am afraid you may be in for a shock.

I hope not for all our sakes but to date no-one has provided anything to be optimistic about.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 14 Feb 18 - 08:16 AM

Sorry, stalwart chap that you may be, I do not want to risk the future of my children and grandchildren on baseless optimism.

And if the referendum had gone the other way, what would be your basis for optimism as part of the EU, aiming for ever closer union, and which had recently shown David Cameron that 'changing things from within' was not a realistic option?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Feb 18 - 07:43 AM

Damn! Spotted my ploy :-)

But I believe that leaving the EU will be better for the future of the UK, and am willing to accept the short term costs. I do not believe those who say we're leaving the EU and that it will be the next generations that lose.

This is just what I am trying to get at, Nigel. On what do you base these beliefs? There is nothing backing up your belief that it will be better and tons of stuff saying it will be worse. I desperately want to believe that it will be for the best but no-one has provided the results of any studies indicating that it will be better while there are a plethora of studies that indicate the opposite.

Sorry, stalwart chap that you may be, I do not want to risk the future of my children and grandchildren on baseless optimism.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Feb 18 - 07:35 AM

I appreciate we all want such costs as low as possible and for as short a time as possible.

Given that, is there anything that for you is "too great a cost", and I include things like environmental damage. If, for example, a US trade deal was made conditional on fracking access to our national parks, what would you say?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 14 Feb 18 - 07:33 AM

Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Feb 18 - 06:14 AM

Gove must be proud of you. No need for expert opinion. Optimism and a brave face will see us through anything. Now, I have these shares for sale that I am very optimistic about. Can I interest you?

Obviously you don't understand optimism. If you were optimistic about the shares why would you be trying to sell them? Of course, it may be a ruse, Arthur Daley would be proud of you.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 14 Feb 18 - 07:18 AM

I accept that there will be costs in the short term (the 'Brexit bill' may be one of them). But I believe that leaving the EU will be better for the future of the UK, and am willing to accept the short term costs.
I do not believe those who say we're leaving the EU and that it will be the next generations that lose. I believe that the UK is capable of being GREAT Britain once we are not shackled to the EU.

I don't say 'Great Britain' to exclude N.Ireland, but to emphasise the 'great' bit.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Feb 18 - 06:39 AM

So let's explore the optimism a bit more. In many cases in life things have to get worse before they get better: you have to live with scaffolding and tarpaulin for some time if you have the roof of your house replaced. You have to do a lot of practice with an instrument before it before to sound tolerable. Now I know a lot of people had little time for ake, but he did acknowledge that there could be years of pain when things are a lot worse than now before Brexit benefits come through.

So are you someone who is optimistic even in the short term, or only long term expecting a short term cost?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Feb 18 - 06:14 AM

That is called optimism, not forecasting.

Gove must be proud of you. No need for expert opinion. Optimism and a brave face will see us through anything. Now, I have these shares for sale that I am very optimistic about. Can I interest you?

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Feb 18 - 06:12 AM

Or brave-facism...

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 14 Feb 18 - 06:08 AM

"I'm not an economist, I don't provide forecasts..."
"The benefits of Brexit need us to escape from the EU. At that point we will start to see the benefits..."

Seems we have two Nigels here, people!

I was not making forecasts. I was clarifying that we will need to complete Brexit before we start to see the benefits. I am not attempting to enumerate those benefits, nor put a value to them. Even so, I am confident that we will see benefits. That is called optimism, not forecasting.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Feb 18 - 05:50 AM

"I'm not an economist, I don't provide forecasts..."


"The benefits of Brexit need us to escape from the EU. At that point we will start to see the benefits..."


Seems we have two Nigels here, people!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Feb 18 - 05:20 AM

I may as well ask -

Those in favour of leaving the EU could give all sorts of predictions of possible benefits, but you wouldn't believe them.

Well, why don't they even try?

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Feb 18 - 04:55 AM

But the negative aspect forecasts are being provided by the same people who forecast that a 60 billion black hole in the economy, an emergency budget, and massive unemployment would immediately follow a vote to leave.

If I remember rightly it was George Osborne that forecast that and Philip Hammond confirmed it. Do you mean to say that Tory politicians have lied to us? Surely not! Besides, that nice Mr Gove had already told us we should take no notice of experts. Good to see he was proved right

How economists are being proved right on Brexit

Oh, sorry, hang on. I must have mis-read that. Surely it is not saying that Gove was talking a load of bollocks as well is it? :-)

Still waiting for that feel good factor...

DtG