BS: Post Brexit life in the UK

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 07 Nov 17 - 04:31 AM

That is not what it says, but read the Independent or Guardian version if you want a report which reinforces your own viewpoint.

Business Insider seems to give further details of the actual speech

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 07 Nov 17 - 04:48 AM

Chlorine washed chicken Q&A from the Independent.

The EU ban is more precautionary than evidence-based. When the ban was introduced, officials were keen that food manufacturers should focus on overall hygiene rather than relying on a single chemical decontamination step to eliminate microorganisms. It was also believed that the chemical decontamination step could encourage antibiotic resistance.

As a result, the EU introduced regulations laying down specific hygiene rules on the hygiene of foodstuffs. This prohibits the use of anything other than water to decontaminate meat and effectively bans US imports of poultry treated with antimicrobial rinses. However, the European Food Safety Authority has found no conclusive evidence that antimicrobial chemicals used in food processing contribute to antibiotic resistance.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Nov 17 - 04:49 AM

In Trump we trust. Christ on a bike...

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Stu
Date: 07 Nov 17 - 04:51 AM

Ah, our bright gleaming future as a vassal state to the USA. We've never operated as equals with the US who are happy to impose on us/ignore us at will, and we are returning to the days of Blair poodleism.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 07 Nov 17 - 05:26 AM

Finally the Government is being coerced (or dragged kicking and screaming) into releasing of the 58 impact studies commissioned into the effect of Brexit on numerous industries.

It has been suggested that some of these studies may be redacted.

Redacted from their own colleagues. How on earth are our elected representatives supposed to make decisions on our behalf if information is withheld from them

Just what will be revealed I wonder?

Impact Assessments

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 07 Nov 17 - 05:45 AM

From: Raggytash - PM
Date: 07 Nov 17 - 05:26 AM
Finally the Government is being coerced (or dragged kicking and screaming) into releasing of the 58 impact studies commissioned into the effect of Brexit on numerous industries.

Again a 'headline' comment unsupported by the details attached to it.

From your link: "John Bercow, the Speaker of the House of Commons, has set the government a deadline of Tuesday evening to publish the Brexit assessments demanded by parliament - or explain why it has not done so."

Do you actually read the links you provide? The section I quote above is the first paragraph.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 07 Nov 17 - 05:47 AM

Raggytash. There is an alternative argument that if you divulge all, then your future bargaining position is weakened.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 07 Nov 17 - 06:36 AM

"Raggytash. There is an alternative argument that if you divulge all, then your future bargaining position is weakened."

The information is being withheld from our elected representatives, Conservative, Labour, Liberal, DUP and Green, not just you and I.

How on earth are they supposed to take rational decisions on the future of this country if they do not have all the available information.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 07 Nov 17 - 06:45 AM

Unfortunately the House of Commons leaks like a colander. Hence information is shared on a need-to-know basis.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Stu
Date: 07 Nov 17 - 06:48 AM

Unfortunately the people who run the businesses in this country also need to know.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 07 Nov 17 - 06:51 AM

Quite Nigel .......... and the people who NEED to know do not have that information, it has been withheld from them for weeks and in some cases months.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Nov 17 - 07:04 AM

The businesses concerned will have no input at all into the on going negotiations......other than to undermine the UK's negotiating position domestically.....encouraging the EU negotiators to stand firm in their unreasonable demands

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 07 Nov 17 - 07:10 AM

From: Raggytash - PM
Date: 07 Nov 17 - 06:51 AM
Quite Nigel .......... and the people who NEED to know do not have that information, it has been withheld from them for weeks and in some cases months.

Oversimplification.
A wish to have the details is not quite the same as a 'need-to-know'.
Those asking for the details do not (quite clearly) have the details in front of them, and so cannot know whether the details will help them / their party / their business.
Those who have the information have 'classified' it, and once classified (available at numerous levels)they are not permitted to disclose it without good reason.
People discussing this on this thread (myself included) have even less knowledge of exactly what need-to-know the various person requesting access have.

As such, it comes down to a matter of trust.
Do you trust the government to release such details as they can, if it will not hamper the current negotiations?
If they are forced to release more than they would like, do you trust that those who receive it will not disseminate it further than they should?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 07 Nov 17 - 07:23 AM

As far as I understand it, even the Brexit Committee members have not seen the information gathered.

As for trust, we elect these people to be our representatives and work on our behalf.

David Davis, an MP elected by us, commissioned 58 studies into various British Industries and the effect that Brexit would have on them.

For reasons we can only guess at, he has seen fit to withhold the information not only from you and I but from our elected members of parliament AND members of the committee HE chairs.

How can they rationally arrive at decisions without all the information available.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 07 Nov 17 - 07:23 AM

Nigel, in your clip you pointed out:

When the ban was introduced, officials were keen that food manufacturers should focus on overall hygiene rather than relying on a single chemical decontamination step to eliminate microorganisms.

That is partially food safety, but also an overall approach to hygiene, namely be hygienic at every step, rather than not care too much but tey to sort it just as the food leaves the door.

I would readily admit we are not exactly great at that, but it is not simply a question of whether the food is safe in the end.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Stu
Date: 07 Nov 17 - 07:26 AM

"As such, it comes down to a matter of trust."

Does anyone trust this government? It's a total sham. Even as I type this Ian Duncan Smith (a truly horrible person) is on The Daily Politics justifying keeping everyone out of the Brexit negotiations except the gooners doing the talking (or not), dissing the ministerial code over Priti Patel's 'family holiday' and calling her a liar, and the complete fucking idiot Johnson shooting his mouth off and putting a british citizen in peril (IDS is making excuses for him now; shame it won't be him suffering the fate of Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe in her stead).

No trust in this bunch of goons. Let's see the reports, include business and the opposition (plus all 'stakeholders') and we might be able to reach a consensus that would strengthen our negotiating position.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 07 Nov 17 - 07:41 AM

From: Stu - PM
Date: 07 Nov 17 - 07:26 AM
Let's see the reports, include business and the opposition (plus all 'stakeholders') and we might be able to reach a consensus that would strengthen our negotiating position.
If they let 'us' and all and sundry, see the reports, they will also be available to those we are negotiating with. Do you honestly believe that that could 'strengthen our negotiating position'?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 07 Nov 17 - 07:57 AM

There would seem to be confusion in some minds between need to know, and like to know. I am sure we would all like to know what the CIA get up to, but it ain't ever going to happen now is it?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 07 Nov 17 - 08:07 AM

Do you not consider that the EU itself has also commissioned reports and already has full access to the information.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 07 Nov 17 - 08:14 AM

Raggytash. No!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 07 Nov 17 - 08:15 AM

Nigel quotes the following:

From your link: "John Bercow, the Speaker of the House of Commons, has set the government a deadline of Tuesday evening to publish the Brexit assessments demanded by parliament or explain why it has not done so.


I don't know what the link referred to said, but you can look in Hansard for what the Speaker said. The bit in bold is truncated: Bercow said "...Failing that, I expect Ministers to explain to the House before we rise tomorrow evening why they have not provided them and when they propose to do so."

So the papers must be published on his instruction. All the Government can explain is why they have not been released immediately.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Stu
Date: 07 Nov 17 - 08:32 AM

"There would seem to be confusion in some minds between need to know, and like to know."

I agree. Businesses need to know this information in order to plan for Brexit; uncertainty is not helpful at all and people's livelihoods are at risk. It's a shame IDS and the goon squad can't seem to grasp this.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 07 Nov 17 - 09:00 AM

From: DMcG - PM
Date: 07 Nov 17 - 08:15 AM
Nigel quotes the following:
From your link: "John Bercow, the Speaker of the House of Commons, has set the government a deadline of Tuesday evening to publish the Brexit assessments demanded by parliament or explain why it has not done so.
1. I don't know what the link referred to said, but you can look in Hansard for what the Speaker said. The bit in bold is truncated: Bercow said "...Failing that, I expect Ministers to explain to the House before we rise tomorrow evening why they have not provided them and when they propose to do so."
2 So the papers must be published on his instruction. All the Government can explain is why they have not been released immediately.

1. The link says what I quoted it as saying, I have nothing to gain by falsifying quotes.
2. The version you give from Hansard says: "...Failing that, I expect Ministers to explain to the House before we rise tomorrow evening why they have not provided them and when they propose to do so."
Even that doesn't preclude the possibility of the Government saying that they 'propose to do so' at a time when doing so would not prejudice negotiations.

So, all in all, it does not come down to "You must produce them immediately".

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 07 Nov 17 - 09:16 AM

Sigh.


Hansard .

Their link takes you to the top of a page so the first few items are not relevant. Please also note the Government response.

I don't intend to get into a silly argument about this. Here is the source and what you or I or the Guardian or the Daily Mail think does not alter it.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 07 Nov 17 - 09:23 AM

You may also like to note what has been said by the Government today in Parliament about the timescale for publication.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Nov 17 - 07:08 PM

Patel, liar. Fallon, tit fondler. Johnson, fat buffoon who has threatened the prospects of a Brit jailed in Iran by shooting his silly mouth off. May's second-in-command a hardcore porn addict, even at work. No discipline whatsoever. Not a dickie bird about brexit for about a week or more. We are enduring a government that has shown itself to be completely unfit for purpose. Be very afraid.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 08 Nov 17 - 01:52 AM

My suspicion - and it is nothing more than that - is that these impact papers will be a more significant story than any of those. But not because of anything they say. Still, I have a month or so to wait to find out.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 08 Nov 17 - 03:28 AM

From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 07 Nov 17 - 07:08 PM
Patel, liar. Fallon, tit fondler. Johnson, fat buffoon who has threatened the prospects of a Brit jailed in Iran by shooting his silly mouth off. May's second-in-command a hardcore porn addict, even at work. No discipline whatsoever. Not a dickie bird about brexit for about a week or more.

You seem to have totally missed the very recent discussion, in this thread, about whether 'impact' papers (about Brexit) will be, or should be released.
DMcG has given you a link to the record in Hansard of the discussions in parliament.
So hardly support that there has been: "Not a dickie bird about brexit for about a week or more".

Michael Fallon admitted to touching a journalist's knee 'inappropriately'. You describe him as a 'tit fondler'. Either you have access to information which hasn't yet made it into the papers (or that I have seen) or your knowledge of anatomy is as poor as your grasp of geography.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Nov 17 - 04:16 AM

Steve's world seems to be full of "little boxes".....very convenient attempting to defend an ideology based on myth.
But is it liberalism?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 08 Nov 17 - 04:25 AM

Duh! Perhaps Nigel, Steve was referring to the lack of Brexit news in the press and the seeming lack of action by the government.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 08 Nov 17 - 04:38 AM

From: Raggytash - PM
Date: 08 Nov 17 - 04:25 AM
Duh! Perhaps Nigel, Steve was referring to the lack of Brexit news in the press and the seeming lack of action by the government.

I'll see your "Duh" and raise you one.
Most of the papers have been reporting the attempt to get the impact assessments released, so again, no reason for Steve Shaw's claim "Not a dickie bird about brexit for about a week or more"

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 08 Nov 17 - 05:02 AM

That is one small piece of the puzzle, what have the government been doing, what progress has been made, what agreements have been reached?

The only "news" is about what the government is NOT doing, that is releasing papers.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Nov 17 - 05:09 AM

She was leaning forward fastening her shoelace when he went for her knee. 😙

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 08 Nov 17 - 05:36 AM

From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 08 Nov 17 - 05:09 AM
She was leaning forward fastening her shoelace when he went for her knee. 😙

More typical Shaw 'whimsy'?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Nov 17 - 05:43 AM

Regard it more as a hypothesis. And lighten up, Nigel. You come across as Teribus but without the bollocks.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 08 Nov 17 - 06:00 AM

From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 08 Nov 17 - 05:43 AM
Regard it more as a hypothesis. And lighten up, Nigel. You come across as Teribus but without the bollocks.

Ah, right, more whimsy written down as if it is factual in the hope that people will accept it as such.
Your posts are becoming further and further divorced from any sense of reality.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 08 Nov 17 - 06:05 AM

Here is an interesting viewpoint, based on reality. Corbyn heading over the rainbow with the snowflakes.


http://commentcentral.co.uk/labour-set-for-eu-re-entry/

On a separate note surveys show Britons are happier since the brexit vote. Perhaps it is due to the entertainment from pestminster.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 08 Nov 17 - 06:07 AM

No link there Iains, just an error message.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 08 Nov 17 - 06:10 AM

Now for some possible movement on Brexit:
Britain unveils new citizens rights plan to smash EU deadlock

BRITAIN today announced a new "streamlined" registration system EU nationals will use to apply for permanent residency after Brexit in a bid to break the divorce talks deadlock.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Nov 17 - 06:19 AM

So all they have to do now is settle the divorce bill. Easy-peasy, Nige!

And, Nige, I abandon all hope when I post here.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Nov 17 - 06:25 AM

Patel, liar

But what of her idea that our aid donations could be diverted to the IDF to support their good works?

Anyone here have any problem with that?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Stu
Date: 08 Nov 17 - 06:31 AM

And make sure the NHS gets the ?350 million per week that they promised.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 08 Nov 17 - 06:35 AM

IDF? He probably means the Israel Defense Force

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Nov 17 - 06:38 AM

The IDF is hardly on its uppers, is it? Three billion dollars a year in aid for an army in a country as populous as Scotland? The point is she was doing things in an improper, dishonest manner. She should be sacked.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 08 Nov 17 - 06:54 AM

Raggytash. The link works for me.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 08 Nov 17 - 07:03 AM


Anyone here have any problem with that?

Yes, but not because it is Israeli before you leap to that conclusion. For any form of aid you need to be as sure as possible it is having the effect you intend. So we would need to come up with a mechanism to ensure the total humanatarian aid from elsewhere is not being reduced and the funds so freed being diverted elsewhere. That is a problem with all aid, but if given to a group whose only aim is humanarian it is reduced. If, however the recipient is an army of any kind there is a risk of in effect cross funding that army.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 08 Nov 17 - 07:11 AM

Just tried it again Iains, comes up with a error message that reads:

"error establishing a database connection"

I've tried about four times, same message.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 08 Nov 17 - 07:52 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 08 Nov 17 - 06:19 AM
So all they have to do now is settle the divorce bill. Easy-peasy, Nige!
And, Nige, I abandon all hope when I post here.

They have already offered a settlement, but the EU are hoping for a higher figure without discussing what that figure would gain us, or what supposed liabilities it represents.
You have shown, time and again, a total ignorance of how negotiation works.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Nov 17 - 08:21 AM

Go and have a lie down. You are genuinely not worth talking to.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 08 Nov 17 - 09:56 AM

Hearing the truth has the strangest effect on some people!