BS: Post Brexit life in the UK

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 09:27 AM

Bugger, so busy thinking about the shit that is BrexShit, I forgot to claim 5900!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 09:27 AM

"Thanks Jim, but the fact remains we have a big trade deficit with EU,"
"they do not want ours,"
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 10:35 AM

"We buy their stuff but they do not want ours, so we need to sell our stuff elsewhere."

What we need to do is make better stuff. We do not need a trade surplus in a world of floating exchange rates.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 10:35 AM

From: Jim Carroll - PM
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 03:46 AM

MAINTAINING BRITISH STANDARDS
Jim Carroll

Interesting link, but I would question its accuracy (even if it is from the Telegraph):
The Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, a leading economic forum, said that the wealthiest tenth of society now earn 12 times as much as the poorest, up from eight times as much in the 1980s.

In addition the amount of total income taken by the top 1 per cent of earners - including bankers, managers and executives - has doubled to 14 per cent.

By contrast, the top tax rate has fallen while benefits for the poorest have become less generous.

The article is from 2011, at which time the top rate of income tax was 50% the highest it had been since 1990, so hardly matching the claim which I've included in bold

While the inclusion of one false premise doesn't automatically invalidate the whole article, it does call into question the reliability of the article.
I am, of course, assuming that all the comments follow on from the first and that he is comparing 'now' (2011) with the 1980s. This is on the basis that he doesn't state any other dates for comparison.

HMRC's list of historic top rates (from 1990) can be seen Here

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 10:39 AM

Yes Jim, we buy their stuff but they buy much less of ours, leaving us with a nasty deficit. US and the rest of the world appreciate what we offer and will want to buy even more when there can be free trade.

BWM, no one person gets to decide such things.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 10:54 AM

After the recent story about the possibility of Airbus pulling out of UK following Brexit, it seems the announcement may have been a put-up job to support a government trying to find other reasons to water-down Brexit. Sunday Telegraph

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 11:16 AM

but I would question its accuracy (even if it is from the Telegraph):
'Course you would Nigel - why wouldn't you
It doesn't make it any less true
It has also appeared in The Guardian and the Independent - and Reurers carried out
Don't you start Trump's "fake News" ploy
It is perfectly in line with what has ben happemin for several years now
SOME FIGURES

"Yes Jim, we buy their stuff but they buy much less of ours, leaving us "
You said they don't want ours - you lied

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 11:29 AM

Hold the fort Backwoodsman along with your other antibrexiteers. You all will be distracted by insults and getting down in the weeds of minutia but keep your eyes on the big picture of power grabs by the rich.

On the other hand, Brexiteers have an easier job of neglecting poverty, promoting inequality and lighting bonfires for racism.
You all have a chance to be a world leader like America in child poverty, incarceration and bad health out comes. You have gone from income inequalties of 6 to 1 and now 12 to one with a final goal outcome of 20 to 1. Why envy American examples of certain corporate incomes of 200 to 1 when you too can send income distribution soaring to the top.

The way I see it is that you are for a government with a social contract or you are for destroying that social contract.

Cap't Obvious

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 11:53 AM

From: Jim Carroll - PM
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 11:16 AM
but I would question its accuracy (even if it is from the Telegraph):
'Course you would Nigel - why wouldn't you
It doesn't make it any less true
It has also appeared in The Guardian and the Independent - and Reurers carried out

Jim,
I made perfectly clear why I doubted its accuracy. It claimed that the top tax rate had fallen between the 1980s and 2011 whereas in fact it had risen. The fact that the article appeared in several places does not increase its credibility. (except with the extremely credulous)

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 11:58 AM

"Brexiteers have an easier job of neglecting poverty, promoting inequality and lighting bonfires for racism."

AND THIS

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 12:34 PM

On Airbus: That is reading a great deal between the lines, Nigel. The article suggests that Airbus were encouraged to release the forecast. There is nothing to suggest the forecast was anything other than Airbus' genuine opinion - or at least not in the section I can read before the paywall obscures things. So referring it it as "a put up job" is not something you would allow anyone else to get away with, I think.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 12:54 PM

I'm not suggesting that the forecast was inaccurate, but that it found its way into the papers shortly prior to the Chequers meeting in order that it could be used as an indication of possible problems coming from Brexit.

Airbus bosses are furious after the Government spurred them to publish a dire forecast of the impact of Brexit before handing a prize £2bn RAF contract to US rival Boeing without a competition.

The Telegraph has learnt that last month’s bombshell warning from Airbus that it could be forced to leave the UK came after discussions with senior Remainer ministers preparing for the Chequers summit.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 12:59 PM

"BWM, no one person gets to decide such things."

I named two, both very influential, at least one of them with a large 'fan club'. You can be certain there are more. And you can be absolutely certain they will spread their ideas very far and very wide. After all, a multi-millionaire ex-stockbroker, and a nasty Eton Old-Boy had no problem persuading you and 17 million others, by a series of oft-repeated lies, to see things 'their way'.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 01:01 PM

Precisely so, Nigel. You are implying that because it came after the meeting that caused the release. Perhaps, perhaps not: maybe Airbus had decided to publish anyway and simply warned the remainers. Claiming it is a 'put up job' may be a suspicion, but no evidence is given.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 01:07 PM

"You all will be distracted by insults and getting down in the weeds of minutia but keep your eyes on the big picture of power grabs by the rich."

Yes, Don - precisely what I've been saying ever since the BrexShit (your delicate sensibilities upset by that word again, Keefy? Tough...errrrmm....shit!) debacle began. The Leave Campaign was a tool of those people - designed to press the racist, xenophobic, and nationalistic buttons of a group of permanently-dissatisfied people who were looking for a scapegoat for every perceived 'injustice' and drawing their eyes away from the ball with their red buses, and meaningless slogans.

BrexShit has never been anything whatsoever to do with the people "Taking are cuntry back", or 'Taking Back Control', but everything to do with a tiny group of immensely-wealthy people Taking Back Control for their own purposes. They needed a lot of easily-deluded people to fall for the BrexShit bullshit and bollocks and, by virtue of a deceitful campaign of their own and a badly-run, flawed Remain campaign, they found them - 17 million of them.

I made a prediction, when Theresa May became PM, that a way to prevent the lunacy of BrexShit happening would eventually, one way or another, be found, and that is looking more and more likely with every farcical day that passes.

Please God, give us a sign and make it so.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 01:13 PM

Nearly 6000 posts and how many of them quote good news about brexit? It makes me cringe to see some on here, who rely on experts for most of their arguments elsewhere, completely denying 99% of expert opinion on why leaving Europe is a bad thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 01:50 PM

Repeat after me, Dave - "There. Is. No. Good. BrexShit. News".

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 02:07 PM

Brexit has not happened. How can there be any news?
Remainers keep making bad forecasts. That is not news.
Leavers do not bother because they have already won. We are leaving.

Having said that, The Sunday Times article I quoted earlier was very positive.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 02:12 PM

Iains re your post of 04.19, In the past weeks, months, nay last two years I have posted numerous comments against our leaving the EU together with numerous links to my sources.

Not once have you made any argument against anything contained in those links and now you have the temerity to suggest I do not contribute.

I would, politely, request that you post something that remainers could consider to be good news.

However I will not hold my breath.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 02:42 PM

Another one that should be completely ignored, Raggy. You cannot reason with the unreasonable.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 03:03 PM

"How can there be any news?"
Brexit has not happened.
Remainers keep making bad forecasts."
ONLY REMAINERS - YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS !!!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 03:10 PM

Raggedttash Sensible comments generate sensible responses. As you have no doubt noticed, much of the time your comments are totally ignored. This should tell you something.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 03:44 PM

Hmmm Iains,

I presume there no little,if any, response was because people like yourself could not generate a single reasoned argument to counter what is being said by hundreds of financial, business and political commentators, some of whom could be considered experts in their field.

However you could prove me wrong by posting from people in similiar postions who can provide some good forecasts.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 03:50 PM

You haven't a clue as to what's being ignored and what isn't, you arrogant bugger. Sometimes I agree with posts so fully that I feel there's no more to be said, therefore I don't say it. Sensible people here don't always need their mates to say "me too." Grow up.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 03:56 PM

PS Iains,

you don't help your argument one iota by posting such names as Raggedttash, those are the sort of comment I associate with people of very limited intelligence.

You may understand who I am referring to! :-)

Cheers

Anyway it's time for some music once again !! I've brought my 12 string out tonight!!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 04:07 PM

Rag,
Not once have you made any argument against anything contained in those links and now you have the temerity to suggest I do not contribute.

Just linking to Remain articles from a Remain paper is not contributing.
There are just as many pro-Brexit articles in the Leave press, but the argument is already won. Why bother?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 04:43 PM

I cannot find any pro brexit arguments by any living economists who are peer checked, have degrees at Oxbridge universities and have their work published in mainstream book shops. Can anyone help?

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 06:31 PM

I do fine it rather strange Dave that not one single article or comment has been posted on this site that has been positive about any projected outcome of Brexit.

Not a single one, not in over two years, by any of the leave voters.

I repeat not a single one.

It would seem that every commentator, business magnate, financial authority is wary or even very dubious of out move out of the EU.

Well, I suppose we can live in hope which seems to be all the Brexiteers can offer us although I have to say I am not at all confident in their hopes.

Perhaps just one of them, one with an ounce of intelligence, could supply us with something to be hopeful about.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 07:38 PM

"Just linking to Remain articles from a Remain paper is not contributing."
Links here have come from every corner and shade of the press - Nigel pointed out that one came from the Telegraph
Nice to know that all the arguments are being read - gives you a warm feeling (in the throat)!!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Stanron
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 08:04 PM

Raggytash wrote: I do fine it rather strange Dave that not one single article or comment has been posted on this site that has been positive about any projected outcome of Brexit.

Not a single one, not in over two years, by any of the leave voters.

I repeat not a single one.

That can only be because you do not read and/or understand what people post. To put it simply, the freedom from multiple negatives is a multiplied positiive. I have posted earlier in this thread some of the negatives incurred in being part of the EU. Brexit will mean freedom from them.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 01:56 AM

A freedom from a negative is not a positive unless it is replaced by a positive. It can easily be replaced by a different negative.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 01:59 AM

I should have said "replaced by something less negative", of course put the point remains, you need to say what is replacing the negativea you eliminate.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 02:21 AM

One more point, before I leave for work!

No one knows what is going to happen in the next few weeks and months. There has been a lot of talk of elections and a second referendum, for example.

"Leave" won the last one by a few percentage points, and could win another by the same margin, perhaps. But if they want to be as sure as possible of winning, they need to persuade some who voted remain to vote leave should another referendum appear. So there is every reason for the leavers here to present arguments that might persuade remainers.

Equally, remainers don't do themselves any favours if they just abuse leavers.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 03:01 AM

Monty Python had it about right!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 03:04 AM

Stanron claims to have posted negatives of EU membership, but the only one I can see in Stanron's posts is that the EU places tarriffs on foreign food. Which is largely not true and the EU has negotiated tariff free access to EU markets for many food producers, particularly those in the third world. which accounts for the wide variety of countries of origin you see on the labels on supermarket shelves. But when weighed against the positives of EU membership:

Tariff free access for European food
Frictionless trade across borders
Access to the vast European market for UK goods
Euratom
Horizon2020 and the predecessor Framework programmes
Erasmus
Opportunities for our young people to live, work and travel across a whole
    continent.
EHIC
ERDF
ESF

Stanron's negatives seem trivial indeed.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 03:37 AM

Ah but, ah but, ah but, 'Promised Land', 'Take are cuntry back', unicorns........

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 04:27 AM

"'Take are cuntry back', unicorns........ "

Do you need a few spelling lessons old chap?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 04:29 AM

There are pro-Brexit arguments in the Leave press every day, but Remainers here do not read them and Leavers do not bother to post them because that is not discussion.
Re another referendum, recent polling suggests that a majority want a hard-Brexit so no-one is being convinced by all the Remain doom-mongering.

BWM, your posts are still full of "shit." Is it a medical problem? Some variant of Tourette's?
Please heed DMcG who said, "remainers don't do themselves any favours if they just abuse leavers."
That is all you do.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Stanron
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 04:43 AM

Fist posted;

"Date: 01 Jul 18 - 12:49 PM

The EU is corrupt. It has failed to present accounts for goodness knows how long.
The EU is incompetent. Had the EU offered any kind of effective reform before the referendum we may not have voted to leave.
The EU is dishonest. When we last voted in the 70s it was about remaining in or leaving an economic community. The plan for political union existed then but was hidden. This was dishonest.
The EU is undemocratic. We were never allowed to vote on stuff they reckoned we would reject. We cannot elect any of the people who originate policy.
The EU is a train wreck in the process of happening.

We are seriously well off outside of it."

Sounds like a positive to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 05:36 AM

And now Justine Greening is calling for a second, three-way referendum:
1. Leave EU with no deal.
2. Leave EU with Mrs May's deal (although it has not yet been agreed by EU)
3. Stay as a member of EU (if they'll still have us, and on our former terms? or on harsher terms than previously?)

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 05:41 AM

"Do you need a few spelling lessons old chap?"

Not me, old fruit - I'm merely quoting some of the amusing mis-spellings perpetrated by Union-Flag bedecked, dumb-fuck Leave voters around Internet sites and forums since the Referendum (hence my quotation-marks). Hilarious that some of the most vocal protagonists of the 'Take Our Country Back' meme don't even have the intelligence or education to spell it correctly.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 05:47 AM

I have seen some misrepresentations of the Justine Greening proposed votes, so to be clearing it is not a three way vote in the sense your MP election might be a three way bote between Labour, Liberal and Conservative. You are asked to rank all three outcomes and the least popular eliminated with its votes redistributed. This is a widely used voting system designed to end up with one choice qih

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 05:48 AM

... with the winner representing more than 50% of the voters.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 05:49 AM

More typos and autotext noise. Sorry.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 05:49 AM

"BWM, your posts are still full of "shit." Is it a medical problem? Some variant of Tourette's?
Please heed DMcG who said, "remainers don't do themselves any favours if they just abuse leavers."
That is all you do."

No, that is not all I do. I make perfectly valid points and pose important question, to which your response is to either begin your belly-dancer gyrations in order to wriggle around them, or you simply ignore them completely.

And may I remind you (respectfully, or disrespectfully - I couldn't care less) of your frequent accusations of others, over the lives of many threads on this forum, of posting 'made-up shit'? It appears you're the one with Tourettes, or a very short memory.

People in glasshouses....

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 05:53 AM

"Not me, old fruit"
Hate to be the bearer of bad tidings Baccy - hoops and yet more hoops
This feller gets off on talking down to people from his intellectual hole in the ground
Responding to his supercilious abuse is feeding his peacockery
I'm poised on the verge om preparing yet another list of his seri8ally abusive bon mottes for yat another public viewing of where we are so far with him
I'm sure you know this already but, as you've saved me from my accesses on a number of occasions I thought I'd return the favour
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 06:02 AM

You're right of course, Jim. However, on this occasion, and as one of the better spellers and users of English around here, I decided to treat Teribus's comment as a bit of light-hearted fun, and respond in like-manner. But I'm old enough and wise enough to respect the old adage about being wary of Greeks bearing gifts!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 06:15 AM

Feel free to continue to respond to him - it will save me trawling the other threads for his personal abuse to have enough here on hand (though I think there already a month or so's worth on tap)
I think you are wrong in identifying him as Teribus, by the way
Our former friend at least made the effort to present his bullshit with a veneer of so called 'facts'
This feller's boorish behaviour is just lazy loutishness based on hastily scooped info from morons like Guido Fawkes - totally devoid of effort
He's even lifted his insults directly from others (including Mr T)
He lacks his predecessor's energy and entertainment value
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 07:01 AM

So Stanron, a series of lies about the EU and then "we are better off out". How about you instead provide a list of the positive benefits to be of leaving. Ones which outweigh the positives of the programmes I listed. Just how will I be better off outside of the EU?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 07:25 AM

You could be right about his true identity, Jim. But the similarity of style, and the use of the same insults against the same people persuade me that they are one and the same. And he's never denied it, not once.

But I agree, one swallow a summer doth not make and, after a brief exchange of light-hearted banter, our mate will almost certainly revert to type. He can't help himself.