BS: Post Brexit life in the UK

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 Mar 18 - 05:43 AM

" his crowd gave us the Depression and later appeasement to the Nazis and World War Two""
I'm talking about the Governments that followed WW1 -
One assumes that a promise that involved the slaughter of a generation of young men should be treated as sacrosanct by all who followed - unless you accept that all politicians are liars (perish the thought!!)
Actualy, Lloyd George's silvery (as in eel) tongue gave us nearly a century of bloodshed in the Northern Irish counties by forcing through a Treaty at gunpoint
He didn't know my father, but my father knew Lloyd George
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 31 Mar 18 - 05:49 AM

"Lord Patten merely voicing opinions would be a more accurate phrasing."

Well, Teribus, you believed the opinions voiced by Bozo, Haddock-Face, and The Little Scottish Viper before the referendum - you know, "£350 million a week for the NHS", "Take Back Control", "Control Immigration" yadda yadda, which have proved to be without substance, so why would Patten's opinions, based on what has happened since the referendum, not be better-founded?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 31 Mar 18 - 07:18 AM

I do not believe Teribus has posted since October. A shame really. His well reasoned arguments ran rings around many of you. Perhaps the fact he made some look foolish was the reason we no longer have his valued contributions.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 31 Mar 18 - 07:49 AM

You're fooling no-one, Tez.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 31 Mar 18 - 07:57 AM

"Actualy, Lloyd George's silvery (as in eel) tongue gave us nearly a century of bloodshed in the Northern Irish counties by forcing through a Treaty at gunpoint"

trying to summarise Irish Independence in one sentence gives rise to the absolute nonsense above. There were multiple levels of complexity involved and one of the main plenipotentiaries signatories to the original treaty negotiations, Collins, was ambushed and murdered by anti treaty forces during the ensuing civil war. This was fought over the refusal to recognise the retention of the 6 counties under UK rule and a refusal to accept dominion status, as exemplified by Canada and Australia.
De Valera himself acknowledged Collin's claim that the treaty would give "the freedom to achieve freedom".
It was also widely recognised that forcing 31 county independence would have led to sectarian warfare.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 31 Mar 18 - 03:23 PM

There speaks a man who knows his subject so well that he thinks there are 31 counties. I wonder which one he has chosen to exclude?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 01 Apr 18 - 03:44 AM

I spent Easter Saturday wirh ny sons and their wives, one of whom is from Mauritius. In the evening she gave us the Mauritian view of Brexit and it was about the most postive view I have heard in its way, namely that seen from the island Brexit is utterly irrelevant. If they go abroad to study it mainly the UK, Australia or Canada, except for medicine which is mainly India. Very many UK universities have a campus on the island and there is no very obvious reason why that should change.

So unless there is a significant change in costs - which is only partly due to exchange rates - she did not think Brexit would matter a jot either way to them. Thar all sounded plausible and I can see it applying to much of the world. So for this sector Brexit may well be "much ado anout nothing."

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Apr 18 - 04:45 AM

"trying to summarise Irish Independence in one sentence gives rise to the absolute nonsense above."
If you stopped behaving as if you were an old member of this site and that you knew everything about everything you would be aware that this fact has long been established as such long ago here, with documented evidence adn official statements
Rather than turning this to be about Irish independence, I suggest you trawl though the previous discussions amd make your arrogant =claims on the basis of having actually read something
The ame with your equally uninformed claims of the political uses the Famine.
We really have been there and one that - some of us have spent a lifetime's interest in it.
Collins said no such thing, by the way - the Treaty was as much an uncomfortable compromise for the Free Staters as itt was totally unacceptable for the Republicans
Try a book before you accuse somebody of "absolute nonsense" - it really does work wonders
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 01 Apr 18 - 05:07 AM

Collins said no such thing, by the way - the Treaty was as much an uncomfortable compromise for the Free Staters as itt was totally unacceptable for the Republicans

COLLINS: Now as one of the signatories of the document I naturally recommend its acceptance. I do not recommend it for more than it is. Equally I do not recommend it for less than it is. In my opinion it gives us freedom, not the ultimate freedom that all nations desire and develop to, but the freedom to achieve it.

    Regarding the Anglo-Irish Treaty during a parliamentary debate (Dáil Éireann - Volume T - 19 December, 1921 (DEBATE ON TREATY)

I think I would prefer to rely on the records rather than your continuous blustering.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 01 Apr 18 - 05:45 AM

By the way jimmie I posted on this site many years before you popped up as a johny come lately. But this means as much as interest in a subject automatically equating with knowledge of the same.
Totally unrelated facts, with no significance!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Apr 18 - 06:02 AM

"I think I would prefer to rely on the records rather than your continuous blustering."
I do wish you's stop this Iains
That statement was a political one made for public consumption at the time when a decision that was to bring about a Civil War was pushed through
There are at least a dozen biographies of Collins and hundreds more on the issues of independence
All of them now fully accept that the Treaty was a forced compromise and all of them contain the information that Lloyd George forced through the Treaty at gunpoint, specifically stating that "if the Treaty was not accepted within three days he could not guarantee preventing an invasion by armed Unionist forces on Dublin"
Please don't treat me as if my hair was still wet from crossing over on the cattle boat.
I do know a little of this and don't have to rely on hastily grabbed cut-'n-pastes
My family was involved in both the War of Independence and the Civil War (in one case, in an official capacity, connected with Collins)
I now live in a part of Ireland that was steeped in these events - part of our collecting work involved recording reminiscences from people who were there at the time and they gave us first-hand accounts of what was happening.
Since the 150th anniversary of the Famine Ireland has been inundated with a veritable Tsunami of books on the period from 1850 to Independence
I must have attended dozens of lectures at out various history societies, as visitors, both before we moved here and through the twenty years we have now lived her
THere has just been published a massive history of The Irish Revolutionary War - a huge doorstep of a book, which covers this period in minute detail.
Please stop trying to force-feed me the official British view of Ireland, those days are over.
And please, please stop sliding back into your "talking down to" persona
In somody as devoid of knowledge and experience as you appear to be, it makes you look somewhat foolish - if not ridiculous
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Apr 18 - 06:05 AM

"By the way jimmie"
Now you really have regressed to your old, defensive/aggressive self
Ah-well, too good to last, wasn't it?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Apr 18 - 06:41 AM

Jim, he is an 'old member of this site' - did you notice the 'old Jom' the twat dropped into one of his posts recently, 29 Mar 18 - 04:35 AM? He can't help himself.

Teribuses may change their names, but leopards don't change their spots.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Apr 18 - 06:44 AM

Right Backy - I    noticed the similarities, I missed the bullshit skills - probably a smokescreen tactic
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 01 Apr 18 - 06:54 AM

Another thing is ignoring his own errors as in 31 counties. He'll be telling us that Cork is on the East coast soon.

Unless that is the one he neglected to include!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 01 Apr 18 - 07:05 AM

Well Jim if you restricted yourself to facts or a discussion of facts there would be no problem. But you insist on wild allegations and total untruths to enforce your point of view, and you do it constantly.
Just in your last couple of posts you amply demonstrate your embellishments.
You denied the quote on Collins.
It ia a matter of public record what was said.
You state there had been no famine is western europe for centuries.
Famines (including Europe) You even overlook the famine in Ireland in 1925.
https://ansionnachfionn.com/2014/10/28/the-irish-famine-of-1925/
"his crowd gave us the Depression and later appeasement to the Nazis and World War Two"
As I pointed out Lloyd george was a liberal. That party was not in charge during the depression or the years leading up to WW2
"Actualy, Lloyd George's silvery (as in eel) tongue gave us nearly a century of bloodshed in the Northern Irish counties by forcing through a Treaty at gunpoint"
The eventual treaty was a compromise, just like most political settlements. Also the final form of it was far ahead of what was proposed originally. As I previously said it is a complex subject and certainly does not lend itself to one sentence summaries.

You study your previous postings on any subject and it is the same woeful litany of constant exaggeration. Why are you so surprised some take issue with this fact. If you did not present your highly biased opinions as facts there would be no argument. You constantly say you have an interest in these subjects, with the implication you have studied them?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Apr 18 - 07:27 AM

"Well Jim if you restricted yourself to facts or a discussion of facts there would be no problem."
I have done - documented facts
Yours is based on a political statement at a time when all sides were under pressure
I've replied to your other poits interminabley
Whatever the rights and wrongs of ny of them your behavior seems to have returned to brutish bullying lever
There is no need for that here and it shows a need to bulldozer your arguments through rather than argue them out
By the way - the compromise left Ireland with nearly a Civil War and nearly a century of inequality, establishment bigotry and bloodshed, quite possibly to return, thanks to Brexit - was that an acceptable alternative?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Apr 18 - 08:33 AM

Incidentally - all the European famines on your list were caused by abnormal conditions (mainly wars) totally uncontrollable in the given circumstances
As I pointd out re Lloyd George - I was referring to British Politicians no Liberal Prime Ministers when I said "his crowd"
As the very wise Frank Hart once said at a talk he gave to middle-class folkies "The British have never understood Ireland - but the Irish understand Britain"
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 01 Apr 18 - 04:00 PM

I do not believe famines are caused by anything other than abnormal conditions. They were hardly deliberate,although unintended consequences might have played a role. I think you underestimate the role of climate in famine and also up until probably the mid 18th century there was a lack of a marketing structure to mitigate famine. There are many studies suggesting volcanic activity, severe el nino events, and climate changes all contributed to famines.

As an example a paper on the impact of volcanic activity from ice core analysis and correlation with medieval documents.

http://web-static-aws.seas.harvard.edu/climate/seminars/pdfs/mccormick_07.pdf
and

Famine during the little ice age

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Apr 18 - 03:51 AM

"I do not believe famines are caused by anything other than abnormal conditions"
Agree entirely, nobody suggested for one moment they were.
It's the question of how they are dealt with that surrounds the Irish Famine
When there was enough food available to feed the population four times over and it was not distributed among the starving can be described as remissable
When food gathered to feed the starving was sold to a starving people at market prices so as not to upset the markets (lassaire faire) can be described at horrifically predatory "the wealthy feeding off the dying, vulture-like".
When the sole charge of handling the famine and advising on its strategy (Sir Charles Trevelyan - a religious fanatic) described the Famine as "God's punishment for their evil ways"... well.... that's something far more sinister
Charles E. Trevelyan, who served under both Peel and Russell at the Treasury, and had prime responsibility for famine relief in Ireland, was clear about God's role: "The judgement of God sent the calamity to teach the Irish a lesson, that calamity must not be too much mitigated".
HERE
MORE DETAILED ACCOUNT HERE
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 02 Apr 18 - 04:35 AM

At the risk of hair splitting, I would say famines and flooding and similar disasters have their origins in natural events (normally), but they are caused or prevented by our preparedness or lack of it beforehand, and our reactions to mitigate it or not afterwards.

Ie it is not something that just happens to us and we are mere passive victims. We play are major part via our actions at the local and government level.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Apr 18 - 05:10 AM

"We play are major part via our actions at the local and government level."
Sorry D - while I agree with the cause of the Famine - the use of of a natural phenomenon can never be acceptable
How often have we argued about how Stalin handled the Ukrainian Famine ?
THere is doubt over whether his actions were deliberate, there is none about the Irish famine now.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 02 Apr 18 - 05:24 AM

Back to the subject matter, Brexit.

A thoughtful and somewhat alarming commentary from Polly Toynbee in todays Guardian.

Ultras are in fear

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 02 Apr 18 - 05:26 AM

For clarity by 'We'I meant humans, particularly our governing systems. Most disasters are at a scale at which the actions of the individual are negligable; dealing with it is necessarily a group response.

So the only responsibility on the individual for the lack of preparedness (if that is the cause) lies with electing or permitting a government which does not value being prepared. (A neat segue into Brexit there!)

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Apr 18 - 08:22 AM

Nice twist to the Brexit plot this morning
Russia is claiming the Britain's accusations against them regarding the Salisbury poisoning has been manufactured to take the public's mind off Brexit !
Anybody old enough to remember 'That Was the Week That Was'?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Apr 18 - 08:31 AM

Ha! It appears that not all of the BrexShit Dumbfucks are on this thread (although, of course, some are). What a bloody Dickweasel...

Taking Are Cuntry Back!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 03 Apr 18 - 06:59 AM

The attached link is headlined "Cutting EU migration very likely to hit growth - official advisers"

Oh dear, oh dear just what the Brexiteers really wanted to hear.

Migration

Still we've got back control so we can continue to shoot ourselves in the foot.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 03 Apr 18 - 03:56 PM

Any good news about Brexit yet, time is running short now.

I have noticed over the past year or so there has been few, if any, attempts to refute the numerous links I have posted.

This actually concerns me, if the vocal people cannot produce a valid counter argument we may truly be going to hell in a hand cart.

Todays link has not elicited one single reply.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 03 Apr 18 - 05:01 PM

We are in a fairly quiet period as far as actual reportable progress is concerned; the next one, I think, will be when the Lords start voting on the Withdrawal Bill on 18th April.

But the trickle of bad news continues, like Japan's recent remarks. Like your links, that trickle does not get commented upon here.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 05 Apr 18 - 05:24 AM

Easy really, force pensioners to work in the fields and other 'grotty' jobs for their pensions, and apply sanctions to those who refuse, or are taken ill in line with the way people with disabilities are treated by the government.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 05 Apr 18 - 06:49 AM

That would work SPB, old woman pick a thousand cabbages today and we will give you one to make some gruel!!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Apr 18 - 06:51 AM

A WHOLE cabbage? Luxury...

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Apr 18 - 07:30 AM

I have noticed over the past year or so there has been few, if any, attempts to refute the numerous links I have posted.

For every pro-remain article in the Guardian there are at least two pro-Brexit articles in the pro-Brexit press.
I do not just mindlessly post links to them all. That is not debate.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Apr 18 - 07:30 AM

I have noticed over the past year or so there has been few, if any, attempts to refute the numerous links I have posted.

For every pro-remain article in the Guardian there are at least two pro-Brexit articles in the pro-Brexit press.
I do not just mindlessly post links to them all. That is not debate.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 05 Apr 18 - 07:40 AM

Surely just loan of a cabbage will do, don't want to raise expectations......

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Apr 18 - 08:02 AM

I would suggest a brussel sprout would do but we are talking post-brexit here...

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 05 Apr 18 - 08:54 AM

Trouble with the majority of the pro-brexit press is the bias based on the vested personal inrerests of the proprietors who are not in favour of regulation of media monopolies.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 05 Apr 18 - 09:27 AM

That would work SPB, old woman pick a thousand cabbages today and we will give you one to make some gruel!!
Good Marxist principle that: From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 05 Apr 18 - 09:37 AM

Nice one Nigel :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 05 Apr 18 - 09:39 AM

Nigel,

PS Have you (only you Nigel) got any of these positive stories about Brexit that are so profuse in the Newspapers ........... I seem to have missed them all.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 05 Apr 18 - 10:07 AM

There is an interesting article concerning the effects of Brexit on The Rock Of Gibraltar in todays Guardian. Not an area I had thought to consider before. (I bet some claim they have)



Gibraltar

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 05 Apr 18 - 10:21 AM

I've said before that the good news about Brexit (apart from the fact that we are leaving the EU) will only become clear once we have left (and possibly some time after). The newspapers will give forecasts (either pessimistic or optimistic) depending on which you read. These forecasts are about as reliable as those made prior to the referendum.
At the moment there is no actual 'news', just suppositions. Even the 'exit fee' can be subject to negotiation.

A non-committal answer, as that's all that's available at the moment.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 05 Apr 18 - 10:44 AM

The truth is Nigel I have not, as yet, seen an optimistic report in any newspaper, not a single one. The pro-brexit reports I have read all tend to say that rough times are ahead but they will be balanced by our "getting back control" and even that seems unlikely. For instance the new contract for printing the new "Blue" British passports being awarded to an overseas company.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Apr 18 - 10:55 AM

The newspapers will give forecasts (either pessimistic or optimistic)

That's the whole point. Where are the optimistic ones?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 05 Apr 18 - 11:53 AM

For instance the new contract for printing the new "Blue" British passports being awarded to an overseas company.
The new contract is currently 'on hold' pending review requested by De La Rue.

Also the firm which 'won' the contract is in the news today over vulnerabilities in ID cards it produced Telegraph

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 05 Apr 18 - 11:56 AM

Here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
a little acorn to chew on.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/cars/article-5577673/Vauxhalls-van-plant-Luton-substantial-production-boost.html

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 05 Apr 18 - 12:47 PM

I agree that is good news, if it safeguards the 14,000 jobs. Because of automation I am not sure if we will gain much financially, but avoiding the job loss is very worth while.


However, it is a somewhat mixed report. I draw your attention yo two paragraphs with it:

However, the news comes as PSA announced only a couple of weeks ago that it would close down 100 Vauxhall’s showrooms – nearly a third of the total 324.


The move put more than 3,800 jobs at risk.


So retaining the existing factory jobs: very good. Little proposed increase in jobs given, but perhaps some. Depends a lot on automation. Losing 3,800 showroom jobs: bad

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 05 Apr 18 - 01:44 PM

Perhaps you would have preferred a crab apple instead?
In the days of the internet why would you need 3,800 showroom jobs.
Do they spend all day polishing cars?

Automation and robotics will trash jobs wholesale (even so called professional jobs) This will occur with or without brexit. R U a luddite?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 05 Apr 18 - 01:48 PM

I simply pointed out the article is not wholly good news, for anyone who stops reading after the headline.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Apr 18 - 03:12 PM

And....4300!