BS: Post Brexit life in the UK

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Jun 18 - 06:55 AM

The Brexit Campaigners caused this situation by campaigning for an action without any in-depth study of the problems it would invoke, and without any kind of plan as to how to enact it successfully - hence the "Oh fuck!", rabbit-caught-in-the-headlights looks on the faces of Bozo the Buffoon, Haddock Face, and The Lying Scottish Viper as they shat their boxers and ran for the hills the morning after the vote.

The UK have created the problem of the Irish border by baling out of the EU. It is a matter of logic, therefore, that it's the UK's responsibility to put forward a workable solution acceptable to all sides.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Jun 18 - 06:03 AM

"Well they would say that wouldn't they? "
You've answered your own question
Brexit is a decision that goes well beyond Britain's Borders, but also adversely effects adversely millions of people who live within them
Those severely and immediately effected have every right to both comment and expect an answer
Even the Northern Counties have described the latest suggestion as "half-cooked" (I suppose it's indecent to say "half-cocked", which is exactly what it is)
It wwas predicted that Brexit could lead to the break-up of the United Kingdom - that seems to be the case, one way or another
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 02 Jun 18 - 05:48 AM

“I love deadlines. I love the whooshing noise they make as they go by.”

? Douglas Adams, The Salmon of Doubt

Which is funny, and probably applies to this June deadline as well. But the leaving date is a different matter (at the moment anyway) because it is legally binding, so you can't just listen for the whooshing sound.

The continuing inability of this government to propose anything where they can say 'We believe this is accordance with everything we signed up to in December' is a serious matter. Any one of us could come up with a dozen proposals in the next hour which do not meet what was previously agreed. Only things we genuinely believe do fully meet that agreement are worth even showing the EU.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 02 Jun 18 - 05:43 AM

Well they would say that wouln't they? The border issue impacts Ireland to a far greater extent than the UK, as has been discussed already.
Two ferry ports in mainland Europe, five in the UK (many times busier)

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Jun 18 - 05:30 AM

From this Morning’s Irish Times
Jim Carroll

May ‘Has Two Weeks’ To Solve Border Issue FIACH KELLY Deputy Political Editor
Government says British leader must table proposals to avoid EU summit crisis

Tánaiste’s warning reflects increasing exasperation in Dublin and Brussels
British Prime Minister Theresa May has two weeks to table written proposals on how to solve the Irish Border issue to avoid a Brexit crisis at a crucial EU summit later this month, the Government has said.
Tánaiste Simon Coveney says the European Union task- force, led by Michel Barnier, must receive detailed proposals in writing from the British government within a fortnight.
This would allow time to debate and discuss the proposals ahead of the European Council meeting on June 28th and 29th. The Government has said substantial progress on the Border, including the so-called backstop, must be made by this summit.
“In the next two weeks, we need to see written proposals,” Mr Coveney told The Irish Times. “It needs to happen two weeks from the summit.”
Mr Coveney’s warning reflects increasing exasperation in Dublin and Brussels that no firm proposals have emerged from London, with just weeks until the summit.
Taoiseach Leo Varadkar, Mr Coveney and other senior Minis¬ters such as Minister for Fi¬nance Paschal Donohoe have repeatedly told their British coun¬terparts that such proposals are needed soon.
“There’s a new idea or solution being mooted every week,” said a senior Government source, adding that Dublin was only “interested in proposals that are written down”.
“On paper like. Or on a screen. We are at legal text stage. We need legal texts to draft and debate.”

‘Buffer zone’
A leaked proposal yesterday from UK Brexit secretary David Davis - that would give Northern Ireland joint UK and EU status so it could trade freely with both, as well as a “buffer zone” to eliminate the need for border checkpoints with Ireland - was dismissed by Government figures. The latest proposals were also dismissed by the Democratic Unionist Party which urged its Conservative partners in the British government to stop coming up with “half-cooked ideas” on how to deal with the Border question.
The party’s East Antrim MP Sammy Wilson said yesterday “If there is no Ww progress on the backstop, we are in for an uncertain summer that none of the mooted proposals had been discussed with his party. He described them as “at best contradictory”.
On the buffer zone, one Government source in Dublin said it only moved a potential physical border, rather than ensuring that no physical border would be in place after Brexit.
Britain and EU are due to agree a withdrawal agreement, including the Irish backstop, by October, but the Government has warned this will be thrown into doubt unless substantial progress is made this month.

Trade rules
The backstop - which would en¬sure no divergence in customs and trade rules between the Republic and Northern Ireland without agreed solutions on how to avoid a hard border - was agreed in principle in December, although Britain has rejected the EU’s legal interpretation of it.
“If there is no progress on the backstop, we are in for an uncertain summer,” Mr Coveney said. “At this point we need written proposals on the Irish back¬stop consistent with what was agreed. We await written proposals from the British side.”

Labour leader Brendan Howlin questioned the value of any further discussions until Ms May secured the support of the House of Commons for a de¬fined negotiating position. Fianna Fáil Brexit spokeswoman Lisa Chambers said the back¬stop was still required and progress must be made at the June summit.
A recent proposal from Ms May that the customs provisions suggested in the backstop
be extended to cover the entirety of the UK for a limited time was rejected by the EU.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Jun 18 - 04:37 AM

Jim,
My point about the extremist right leading the pooposition to Europe made perfectly

The Far Right are on the rise in every EU country except ours.
Denmark has just joined the list of EU countries that ban the hijab.

Are these really the people you are happy t see running the world?
No.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Jun 18 - 02:19 AM

"Nah. It is the EU leading to the pooperisation of europe. "
Meaningless name-calling with no substance
You obviously have no intention of responding to the fact that all your examples are those of extremist right opposition to the idea that the idea that if world economies are to survive they are going to need to co-operate in order to compete
Brexit was always based on 'scapegoat politics' - rather than finding cures for economic problems and their social effects, let's blame the immigrants and refugees - the aliens in our midst
It's been tried before - last time it was the Jews.
Every one of the five European political groups who are objecting to continuing membership to the E.U. are Islamophobic
Britain has the honour of being the first to successfully resurrect Enoch Powell's 'Rivers of Blood' dream to walk away from Europe
You cannot have a decent world based on hate   
The irony of all this is that rather than "stand on their own feet" the next move will be for these hate-groups to come together to form an Axis - Marine LePen tried this in the early 1970s when she held a conference of Fasists groups in London - she failed, and more recently she was rejected by the people of France
The countries you produce as opposing the E.U. haven't been so wise
You have been producing a list of strange friends lately, what with Tommy Roberton and now a bunch of neo-Nazis
Exist from stage to make way for a string af childish abuse - feel free, it only underlins the point I am making
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 02 Jun 18 - 01:33 AM


Is this a non starter also? [Italy government saying Germany should leave Euro]

The short answer is yes.

But the long answer is more interesting. With Brexit, the analogy that the UK is deciding to leave a club has often been used. The same analogy can be applied here: Can (or should) a club be able to evict one of its members? The EU does have a mechanism to punish unruly members by fines/withholding funds, but as far as I have been able to see so far, no means to evict a member. If that does not exist, it does seem to me to be a change in powers that is worth considering. But in practice it would be incredibly disruptive, especially for a Eurozone member, and introducing such a mechanism would need to be agreed by all the member countries. That would mean each would have to weigh up the benefits of being able to evict someone else against the impact if they were evicted themselves. I would expect such a proposed change would be rejected because of that.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 01 Jun 18 - 04:50 PM

Nah. It is the EU leading to the pooperisation of europe. I always held it was a crock of shit!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Jun 18 - 03:33 PM

"Is this a non starter also?"
HOPE SO IF THESE ARE HIS SUPPORTERS
My point about the extremist right leading the pooposition to Europe made perfectly
Are these really the people you are happy t see running the world
You people have learned nothing from history
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 01 Jun 18 - 03:11 PM

Is this a non starter also?

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/968067/italy-news-populist-government-giovanni-tria-paolo-savona-giuseppe-conte-lega-five-s

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Jun 18 - 10:29 AM

If they allow the Six Counties to remain in the EU, fairness and equality surely dictate that it would also be reasonable for all other UK citizens who wish to remain in the EU to be granted EU citizenship, and an EU passport. There were 16 million of us at the last count, plus the lazy ones who couldn't be bothered to get off their idle arses to vote.

That's just as likely as the Six Counties remaining in the EU.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 01 Jun 18 - 09:19 AM

David Davis, Nigel. It is in various reports.

But it another nonstarter, so don't worry.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 01 Jun 18 - 08:55 AM

New suggestion to the border issue now being mooted is that the Six Counties remain in the EU and also part of the United Kingdom

Who is mooting this?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Jun 18 - 08:25 AM

New suggestion to the border issue now being mooted is that the Six Counties remain in the EU and also part of the United Kingdom
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 01 Jun 18 - 06:30 AM

That's a point of view. Another is that the UK has been unable to suggest anything that meets the agreed paragraphs in the December document. And, in the main, every proposal has self evidently been in conflict with those paragraphs without needing to speak the EU at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 01 Jun 18 - 06:17 AM

The specific solutions offered are always unacceptable and always will be for the reasons stated above. Blood from a stone springs to mind.
The only negotiating position of the EU towards Brexit is to display
intransigence.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 01 Jun 18 - 05:48 AM

Posted too early when I tried to fix the typos. That's one reason I rarely try.


I was about so say there is nothing in that that to me suggests a time limited solution could be acceptable and the "now and in the future" emphasises that.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 01 Jun 18 - 05:45 AM

The relevant paragraphs on the December agreement are available online. Paragraphs 48-50 are the ones to read closely. They say the UK will propose specific solutions and in the absence if agreed solutions the United Kingdom will ma8ntain full alignment with those rules of the Internal Market and the Customs Unionwhich, now or in the future, support ... The protection of the 1998 Agreement.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 01 Jun 18 - 05:27 AM

permanent until a mutually agreed better solution was found.

Maybe the EU has a different meaning for 'permanent'.
Replace 'until' with 'unless' and it might make sense.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 01 Jun 18 - 05:19 AM

The plan of further centralism is slowly unraveling.

Nation first, EU second

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/967935/Italy-news-LIVE-crisis-Giuseppe-Conte-Giovanni-Tria-latest-update-EU-euro-coalition-

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 01 Jun 18 - 05:09 AM

I suspect if God himself offered a solution the EU would dispute it. They know very well that the border issue is the visible manifestation of a long running sore that can change to sectarian violence at the drop of a hat. The EU care not a wit for a localised anarchy, providing their master plan of ever increasing centralism continues.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 01 Jun 18 - 04:59 AM

Amongst other things, the EU is determined that the solution to the Irish border, whatever it is, is long term. That is the primary reason that a proposal saying it will only apply "for a matter of months" is self evidently a non starter. The proposal agreed by the UK in December was that the backstop should be permanent until a mutually agreed better solution was found. That is what needs to be offered by the UK.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 01 Jun 18 - 04:53 AM

https://extra.ie/2018/06/01/news/irish-news/eu-dismisses-mays-irish-border-solution

The EU is determined to frustrate the brexit process.

Hard Brexit here we come!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Jun 18 - 04:00 AM

Wonder how those 'simplest, easiest trade deals ever' that David Davies was crowing about are coming along?

We are not allowed to negotiate them yet.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 01 Jun 18 - 03:43 AM

From: Donuel - PM
Date: 31 May 18 - 05:46 PM
The UK is now subject to our tariffs on US Steel
Trumpy hates Theresa for her insults but likes Turnbull so Oz gets an exception

Just a little correction to this.
Trump will impose tariffs on EU (not UK alone). It is not, then, a response to Theresa May.
If we were no longer part of the EU we may have been able to discuss this separately, but we are currently bound in a single customs union with the rest of the EU, so have to accept deals and tariffs the same as the rest.
If these tariffs are the result of a failure in negotiation, it is a failure by the EU, not by the UK.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Jun 18 - 02:08 AM

So...any good news about what post-Brexit life in the UK will be like? Wonder how those 'simplest, easiest trade deals ever' that David Davies was crowing about are coming along?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Jun 18 - 01:39 AM

Yes, the U.S. Tariffs is a worry. The wonderful trade deals with the rest of the world are looking as likely as the extra £350 million for the NHS.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Donuel
Date: 31 May 18 - 05:46 PM

The UK is now subject to our tariffs on US Steel
Trumpy hates Theresa for her insults but likes Turnbull so Oz gets an exception

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 31 May 18 - 02:08 PM

Well, back on-topic - Post-Brexit life in the UK - good old IDS says that anyone who doesn't like it should leave the Uk and live somewhere else. Except, of course, he and his fellow Brexit-idiots want Freedom of Movement to be ended. So how is that going to work, don't those Numb-Nuts understand that Freedom of Movement works both ways?

https://www.facebook.com/999BFA/posts/1929026887156374

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 May 18 - 01:48 PM

"Well I never knew that. Tell us more !!"
Have you noticed how the Little Englanders are forever giving out about what the Irish should do, yet, when a British citizen living in Ireland dare to criticise our Government they go "pontificating" ballistic!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 31 May 18 - 01:30 PM

Sorry, I know very little about weeds, so have never discussed them here.

Let's stick to this French residency business. What is your opinion of his behaviour?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 31 May 18 - 12:53 PM

Would you like a pointless discussion on weeds instead?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 31 May 18 - 12:45 PM

He is applying for residency, not citizenship. My mistake. But the comment still stands.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 31 May 18 - 12:30 PM

Is JC (Jesus Christ) alive and well and living in Ireland? Well I never knew that. Tell us more !!

Once again Nigel thank you for the link. Yes you are correct that bodies like the Police force are invariably looking for more funding. However in this instance there may be some credence to their concerns.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 31 May 18 - 12:30 PM

whataboutery

noun

BRITISH

the technique or practice of responding to an accusation or difficult question by making a counter-accusation or raising a different issue.

"all too often, well-intentioned debate descends into whataboutery"


Such as, for example, bringing in Soros, where his funding of a campaign is completely in line with his position for many years as if it corresponds to a prominent Brexit supporter applying for EU citizenship.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 31 May 18 - 11:50 AM

"You really couldn't make this up.

Nigel Lawson one of the most fervid pro-brexit commentators has applied for French residency."

and Sorus is funding a campaign for the remainers and does nor even have UK citizenship

and JC lives in Ireland and pontificates on things British.

So just what could you not make up? or are to trying to make some profound political point?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 31 May 18 - 11:37 AM

When funding is squeezed, any police force will look for excuses to have its funding increased. Nothing surprising there.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 31 May 18 - 11:36 AM

Jim,
Perhaps apologists for Islamophobia are so beneath contempt that they do not merit a reply

They are Jim, but none have posted so far.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 31 May 18 - 11:34 AM

Brexit: Northern Irish police ask for more funds to protect border

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 31 May 18 - 11:28 AM

Thanks Nigel.

On a far more serious note the Northern Irish Police have asked for greater funding to police the border post Brexit. Perhaps we should be very concerned about this.

Again could someone provide a link to the article in todays Guardian.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 31 May 18 - 11:25 AM

Nigel Lawson - French Residency

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 31 May 18 - 11:19 AM

You really couldn't make this up.

Nigel Lawson one of the most fervid pro-brexit commentators has applied for French residency.

Could someone kindly add a link to the article in todays Guardian.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 31 May 18 - 10:57 AM

Try not to talk to people and remember you are a mental midget Iaians
People with far more knowledge and experience have had their fingers burned on this forum by forgetting their place.

I know my place

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 May 18 - 10:42 AM

"Perhaps someone else could copy my posts "
Perhaps apologists for Islamophobia are so beneath contempt that they do not merit a reply
Perhaps people who think that fellow-members of this forum are prone to either giving or obeying orders shouldn't be members of this forum
It really is about time you decided whether you wish to continue posting to people you have such a low opinion of
Why bother?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 31 May 18 - 09:05 AM

Perhaps someone else could copy my posts otherwise many people here are forbidden to respond to them.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 31 May 18 - 09:02 AM

Jim, the rise in Islamophobia probably has more to do with Islamist terror attacks than Brexit.
It happened with Irish terrorism, remember?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 May 18 - 08:57 AM

Pushing on
Brexit
THE PREDICTION

THE REALITY

HOW IT IS MANIFESTING ITSELF
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 31 May 18 - 08:51 AM

Jim, you are about the worst culprit.
Is this a change of heart?
Hope so.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 May 18 - 08:43 AM

My suggestion still stands
If we don't do anything about stopping personal abuse we can kiss goodbye to any topic we have strong differences on
Jim Carroll