BS: Post Brexit life in the UK

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 02 Dec 17 - 12:06 PM

Another PS.

There are TEN not FIVE DUP MP's in Westminster.

Yet another example of your grasp of politics.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 02 Dec 17 - 12:01 PM

PS Martin McGuiness died shortly after resigning. Gives you a bit of a clue as to why he resigned.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 02 Dec 17 - 11:59 AM

"Every opinion I have expressed on this thread is my own"

I wonder if that includes the pound "soaring" after a rise of one half of one cent. (less than falf of one percent.)

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Dec 17 - 11:57 AM

"They will put every possible obstacle in the path of a successful brexit."

Good. Then, hopefully, the whole ludicrous debacle of BrexShit, which has been dumped on the majority of the electorate by a racist, xenophobic, feeble-minded minority who enjoy taking it up the arse from a small group of immensely-wealthy tax-exiles, will be abandoned.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Dec 17 - 10:25 AM

You have your answer in your own article Keith
The People of Ireland have never, up to now, included the Catholic minority
Now they are nearly the political majority they are able to have a say in whether they should be part of Ireland or Britain
Brexit has halped create this position by forcing the DUP whether to become part of a Britain outside Europe or remain as part of the EU
ONE MORE TIME
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Dec 17 - 10:20 AM

Jim,
The threat of violence coms from the possible closure of the Border (again)

If it is closed, it will not be by UK.
There is no need to close it.
Why is IR/EU threatening that and why blame UK?

The cross border trade is a tiny, trivial proportion of EU trade.
They can afford to leave it free so everyone wins.

This is all about punishment and trying to prevent a successful Brexit which EU fears above all else.
They will put every possible obstacle in the path of a successful brexit.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Dec 17 - 10:12 AM

And why did they withdraw, Keith? Are you to blame if you withdraw for good reasons?

What do you think of their reason Steve?
Was it worth depriving NI of a Parliament so that the only people now representing NI at all are the 5 DUP MPs at Westminster?

That is what they achieved by bringing down the Stormont Parliament.
Was it a good idea? Has it achieved anything for any of the people of NI?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Dec 17 - 09:17 AM

If you care to read up the implications of the closure of the Peace Talks, which happened because the Nationalists decided they had reached stalemate, the only threat is a rerun of elections to decide who should Govern the North - nothing to do with "violence"
The threat of violence coms from the possible closure of the Border (again) and direct rule from London
Read what you put up - the only mention of paramilitary violence mentioned is that by Unionist thugs
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Dec 17 - 08:30 AM

!The "situation in NI" is due the their mad sectarian politics, but we were discussing direct rule."
For Christ's sake Keith - the only sectarianism is yours
Northern Ireland is now approaching parity between the two groups - the terrorist linked DUP is fighting desperately to maintain its influence and is now in a cleft stick because of Brexit - they don't know which way to turn
Very shortly they are going to have to give Britain a bung for their support
It is sectarian Billy-Boy hatred like yours that has filled body bags throughout the length of the 20th century
It was the Unionists who introduced the gun into 20th century Irish politics in the first place - now it is sortting itself out
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Dec 17 - 07:54 AM

And why did they withdraw, Keith? Are you to blame if you withdraw for good reasons?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Dec 17 - 07:29 AM

New York Times,
"January, when Northern Ireland’s governing coalition collapsed. That created a power vacuum at Stormont that has still not been filled, paralyzing the region’s already pinched institutions and threatening a 1998 peace deal that largely ended three decades of fighting between nationalist and unionist factions.
Since that deal, known as the Good Friday Agreement, Northern Ireland has been run mostly by a devolved regional government that must, in effect, be led by a coalition between the region’s largest nationalist party and its largest unionist counterpart.
But in January this delicate arrangement was upended when Sinn Fein, which hopes for a united Ireland one day, withdrew from a coalition with the Democratic Unionist Party, which wants Northern Ireland to remain part of the United Kingdom.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/20/world/europe/northern-ireland-stormont-adams.html

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Dec 17 - 07:14 AM

Steve,
As for Sinn Fein being to blame for the situation in Northern Ireland, I'd have thought a good starting point would be that it takes two to tango. So where's your evidence that the DUP are entirely blameless, Keith?

The "situation in NI" is due the their mad sectarian politics, but we were discussing direct rule.
Direct rule is likely because of the resignation of Martin McGuinness as deputy first minister causing the collapse of the devolved parliament.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Dec 17 - 07:03 AM

"They are beacons of clarity compared to a certain relative of mine!"
I hope you take good care of him/her
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 02 Dec 17 - 06:45 AM

all those you mention have to offer is distortion, obfuscation, repetition and personal insults

They are beacons of clarity compared to a certain relative of mine!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Dec 17 - 06:22 AM

"Not that one Dave, and I have never even quoted anyone else who believed such shit."
Please let's not waste something here that may be useful on the relevant threads and is quite likely to get this one closed down.
We all know what Keith said.
I too "want to hear and discuss things" - but all those you mention have to offer is distortion, obfuscation, repetition and personal insults.
THere are people who we disagree with who are perfectly capable of putting up intelligent arguments and reliable information - but not this trio - though Nigel at his best, puts up a good defence when he puts his mind to it
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Dec 17 - 06:19 AM

"The rest of us totally ignore the bulk of the postings here."
Is that a confession or a boast?"
Sadly a fact...

For the second time of asking, where's your evidence for this? Have you carried out a comprehensive survey of "the rest of you?"

As for Sinn Fein being to blame for the situation in Northern Ireland, I'd have thought a good starting point would be that it takes two to tango. So where's your evidence that the DUP are entirely blameless, Keith?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Dec 17 - 06:09 AM

Including the opinion that British Pakistanis have a proclivity to groom and molest underage girls?

Not that one Dave, and I have never even quoted anyone else who believed such shit.
My case on that thread was that there was an over-representation of that group in that specific crime. You agreed with me I recall.

Asked directly why it should be, I could give no reason so I quoted a number of people who believed they could.

They were all Left wing, mostly senior Labour people and mostly of the group in question.

Every opinion I have expressed on this thread is indeed my own.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 02 Dec 17 - 06:08 AM

I don't think that is very helpful, Dave. At the least, it is likely to change the subject for some time.

I was reading an article by Robert Peston recently who was saying how shocked he was that he did not know anyone who wanted to leave and so some third of the entire population was pretty much invisible to him. And he recognised that as a flaw in himself.

I am not in quite such an extreme position since I know several leavers, but certainly my social circle is dominated by remainers. And, like Peston, I think that is a problem. I want to hear and discuss things with Keith and Ake and Nigel. I probably won't agree with them very often, but it improves *me* if I have a better understanding where they are coming from. Whatever happens, we will all be in the same country together subject to the same rules and regulations, so I think it a bad move if either side huffs off and refuses to engage with the other.

The one exception is anyone who openly admits they have no interest in the conversation. There is little point trying to engage with them.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Dec 17 - 05:46 AM

Every opinion I have expressed here is my own.

Including the opinion that British Pakistanis have a proclivity to groom and molest underage girls?

Just wondering.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 02 Dec 17 - 05:26 AM

The BBC also has this bit, which I think is important:

The taoiseach thanked Mr Tusk for the solidarity demonstrated by all EU partners and called the EU "a family which sticks together".

He said he was optimistic that a deal could be achieved by Monday.

However, he said any UK offer must indicate how a hard border can be avoided and avoid the risk of regulatory divergence.


"Avoid the risk of regulatory divergence": that has implications which might not be immediately obvious, such as who decides whether a divergence has occurred, or whether only one side - i.e. the EU - is able to set the regulations.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Dec 17 - 05:19 AM

Key to UK's future lies in Dublin, says Tusk
Irish Times
HARRY McGEE Political Correspondent
European Council president Donald Tusk has thrown his support firmly behind Ireland in the Brexit negotiations, saying if the UK's offer on the Border is unacceptable to Ireland it will be unacceptable to the EU'.
Mr Tusk met Taoiseach Leo Varadkar in Dublin yesterday before Monday's deadline for British prime minister Theresa May to submit her government's final offer for the first phase of the UK divorce talks.
Mr Tusk offered robust support for Ireland's negotiating position. In effect, he said that the EU would give Ireland the right to veto any offer on the Border proposed by Ms May.
'We agreed today that before proposing guidelines on transition and future relations I will consult the Taoiseach on [whether or not] the UK offer is sufficient for the Irish Government. Let me say very clearly if the UK offer is unacceptable for Ireland it will be unacceptable for the EU,' he said.
In an unequivocal message to the British government, he said: 'This is why the key to the UK's future lies, in some ways, in Dublin, at least as long as Brexit negotiations continue.'
Mr Tusk's backing will be seen as giving a major fillip to the Government in the run-up to Monday's deadline and the crucial EU summit that begins on December 14th.

Strong support
Mr Varadkar also spoke to European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker who also expressed strong support for the Irish position.
A special Cabinet meeting has been arranged for Monday morning, at which Mr Varadkar and T?naiste and Minister
for Foreign Affairs Simon Coveney will brief colleagues on progress on the Border issue.
No other contacts have been scheduled between Mr Varadkar and other leaders, including the British prime minister, over the weekend. However, Government officials last night stressed this may change as the situation evolves.
Later on Monday, Ms May will meet Mr Juncker to put the final British offer on the three key phase-one issues: the so-called divorce bill, the rights of EU and British citizens post-Brexit, and Border issues with Ireland.

Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Dec 17 - 05:11 AM

Backwoodsman, you have just made a post which is entirely a personal attack.
That is a breach of Mudcat rules.
It is also just lies.
He never gives his own opinions

Every opinion I have expressed here is my own.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 02 Dec 17 - 04:37 AM

Damn non-ascii characters!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 02 Dec 17 - 04:35 AM

Here is a good Blame it on Brexit story.

Nothing to do with Brexit at all, naturally. The goal - ?World-class capable leaders are needed to ensure that the UK?s universities become one of the stars in the UK?s post-Brexit export strategy,? said Gill Rider, chair of the Southampton University?s council. ?Sir Christopher brings breadth and depth of experience that is critical to Southampton?s long-term success.? - would be exactly the same even if the referendum had never taken place.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Dec 17 - 04:05 AM

"Don't feed the trolls.
How about us all making this a New Years Resolution brought forward a month - we could look on it as our contribution to cleaning up he Mudcat environment?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Dec 17 - 03:58 AM

Keefie doesn't 'discuss' in any sense of the word. He simply tries to set traps for the unwary in order to 'win' points (in his own feeble mind). He never gives his own opinions, he just claims not to have any knowledge of whatever is under discussion and presents links to dubious right-wing sources. He starts threads with a question, and he answers questions with questions, trying to set a trap - the last refuge of a (feeble-minded) scoundrel.

I short, he's a waste of cyber-space who should be ignored by everyone. The worst kind of troll. If everyone did as I've decided to do and ignored him, he'd fuck off with any luck.

Don't feed the trolls.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Dec 17 - 03:55 AM

Keith is typical as he constantly whines that he is receiving too much information to take in

No Jim. I ask for points to be put in an intelligible way without being couched in emotive hype about body bags, bowler hats, flags and sashes.

I answered all the points hidden in your last spew, but would much prefer reasoned discussion such as that from DMcG.
You are just incapable of rational thought on this.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 02 Dec 17 - 03:51 AM

Oh the joys of labour under comrade corbyn!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5138357/Momentum-kick-councillor-working-class.html

"The rest of us totally ignore the bulk of the postings here."
Is that a confession or a boast?"
Sadly a fact!
How many contributors now exist in the BS section?
Most have been driven away by your constant wittering.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Dec 17 - 03:49 AM

Jim, the return of direct rule has nothing to do with Brexit and everything to do with Sinn Fein.
Belfast telegraph last week,
"The DUP and Sinn Fein have been engaged in talks to restore devolution to Northern Ireland since the republican party pulled down the institutions in January. "
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/politics/further-moves-to-direct-rule-inevitable-says-dups-foster-ahead-of-pm-meeting-36

I knocked down all your points but you only challenge this one?
Given up on the others?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Dec 17 - 03:33 AM

"The rest of us totally ignore the bulk of the postings here."
Is that a confession or a boast?
You consistently ignore researched articles taken from the press and have refused to respond to the now proven facts of the situation.
Keith is typical as he constantly whines that he is receiving too much information to take in
You just resort to personally insulting those who provide that information,
If we all embraced Keith's philosophy that the objectives of these discussions are to "win" something, I think it would be a case of 'game, set and match'
There is ample evidence to suggest that Brexit has cost Britain more than it can afford and has naused up the economy, damaged the social structure and is already eating into the living standards of the mass of the people.
It was an appallingly destructive decision taken for all the wrong (nationalist and racist) reasons, and future generations will have to pick up the pieces.
FUTURE

The floor's yours Iaians - now let's have a bit more personal abuse from you to start the day as you obviously mean to continue
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 05:58 PM

"The rest of us totally ignore the bulk of the postings here."

And your evidence for this assertion is...?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 05:57 PM

Another duff link from you, Iains. Hide your head in shame.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 05:26 PM

It is not in the nature of you and your ilk to ignore a post. The rest of us totally ignore the bulk of the postings here. You are hooked on the sound of your own chattering, hence your vast number of posts.
As exemplified by the arch chatterer above.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 05:19 PM

No, DMcG. He's back-pedalling because someone took the trouble to investigate the background to his link, and found the link seriously wanting. His last post was sheer pretence. He had either thought no-one would check or he hadn't checked it out himself first. We can only guess.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 04:15 PM

So are we to assume all your posts could just be clickbait, Iains? It will encourage us to ignore them, you know.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 03:09 PM

you just cannot beat a bit of clickbait!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 03:07 PM

"Something for the rats to chew on!"
That's comforting - given the Trump connection, can we look forward to the city types discarding their bowler hats for Swastika armbands and Jackboots?
SS/GB in real life - eh what!!
"Now please Jim, JUST ONE POINT AT A TIME!"
For Christ's sake Keith, I fou can't keep up, stcik with Eastenders
Nobody want's to talk to you anyway
"Nothing to do with Brexit Jim. More to do with Sinn Fein."
You seem to have swapped your Union Jack for your old bowler hat and Orange sash
See what I mean - read the article
It has everything to do with Brexit
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 02:56 PM

City A.M. is a free right-wing Tory rag given away at stations in London by guys in uniform. Its current editor was appointed two years ago when he was 28. One of its founders appears to have been assassinated by one of Putin's men in a Latvian forest. One of the previous editors wanted London to be declared a city state and wanted to abolish all personal and corporation taxes and introduce a single income tax rate of 30% on personal earnings, dividends, rent and interest.

Iains is certainly the links comedy gift that simply keeps on giving.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 02:34 PM

Yes plenty to chew on, Iains.

But maybe not the things you think.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 02:25 PM

Something for the rats to chew on!


http://www.cityam.com/276748/city-firms-hiring-spree-salaries-look-set-keep-rising

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 01:52 PM

You appear (whether through ignorance, or unwillingness to look at the actual details of the negotiations) unable to realise that UK and The Republic of Ireland cannot decide what will happen.
Although both would wish that there will not be a 'hard' border, Ireland are not able to negotiate their own position. They have to wait for the EU to tell them what their position will be


Still some days to go but it isn't sounding quite like that.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 01:47 PM

Steve,
Nonsense. They are playing by the rules. Why should they make an exception for us?

What do you mean us? A border has two sides. They are on one side and supposedly no-one wants a hard border!

the chump who got us into this mess in the first place, David Cameron.

No, it was the electorate. Labour wanted a referendum too.

Jim,
The fact that there is a serious threat of RETURNING to VIOLENCE if the North is returned to Direct Rule is a constant topic of conversation here

Nothing to do with Brexit Jim. More to do with Sinn Fein.

Britain has taken teh decision to leave and is now demanding rights that are only open to members

More rubbish. We only want free trade, and Canada was given that without paying a penny!

It is Britain's decision that has made it not just harder but virtually impossible to progress on

Even more rubbish! Britain wants to progress on but EU won't allow it.

Why the **** should a non-member have any rights once they have left

We do not want any rights, but free trade is in everyone's interest.

Now please Jim, JUST ONE POINT AT A TIME!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 01:18 PM

Will do Baccy
Tuske has just announced publicly that if the deal put forward on the Border, then it's not good enough for Europe
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 12:10 PM

It's easy, Jim - just ignore the wazzock's OCD ramblings.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 11:47 AM

"You implied that I was the one avoiding responding to points.You implied that I was the one avoiding responding to points."
Not only you Keith - your little team is
"I can, but one point at a time without emotive shit about body bags please."
The fact that there is a serious threat of RETURNING to VIOLENCE if the North is returned to Direct Rule is a constant topic of conversation here - it apparently hasn't reached your corner of 'Little England' yet
"The EU are making it an issue to make a deal harder for us."
Britain has taken teh decision to leave and is now demanding rights that are only open to members
It is Britain's decision that has made it not just harder but virtually impossible to progress on
Why the **** should a non-member have any rights once they have left (that reminds me - must renew my library ticket if I want to take out any more books)
Sorry am feeding the troll again - see how easy it is to fall down Keith' rabbit hole Mac
"My name is Jim Carroll and I think I am a Keithoholic"
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 11:46 AM

DMcG, I gave figures up to 2012 which is as far as Wiki went. I fear they have only got worse since.

My comment to Jim was a bit tongue in cheek, but even so I won't talk about it directly. But one point I have made time and again on this thread is to try and find the underlying, original material, rather than someone else's digest and interpretation of it. Finding a company's financial statement is not difficult if they are publically listed. This approach does require you to interpret the statement in Hansard, or the committee's paper, or the financials for yourself, though, so it is more work.

It's been a long time since it was said, but I also need to reference Nigel's remark about 'read[ing] Hansard to shore up your comments'. Absolutely not. That would be a prime example of confirmation bias. Far better to read Hansard, think about it, and only then formulate your comments. AT which point you can reference Hansard to explain why that is your opinion. But "opinion first, read second" is completely wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 11:31 AM

"The EU are making it an issue to make a deal harder for us."

Nonsense. They are playing by the rules. Why should they make an exception for us? Hopefully, a way will be found for them to do that without causing ructions among member states. In the meantime, you should be blaming the chump who got us into this mess in the first place, David Cameron.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 11:21 AM

Jim,
Who asked you to Keith?

You implied that I was the one avoiding responding to points.

"Jim, you are incapable of rational thought on this so I will not reply to you."
Course you can't Keith

I can, but one point at a time without emotive shit about body bags please.

DMcG, I gave figures up to 2012 which is as far as Wiki went. I fear they have only got worse since.

But I wonder what all the angst is about then, Keith?

The EU are making it an issue to make a deal harder for us.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 11:05 AM

"I consider myself admonished, Jim,"
Wasn't aimed at you Mac - we've all fallen into one of Keith's black holes - I'm still a regular attender of 'Keithicus Anonymous' meetings
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 09:50 AM

Why the **** are we discussing the finances of the Guardian on a thread about Brexit?

Jim, it started as a piece of good news about the Daily Heil shares dropping 25%. And considering how you bring up the subject of Israel on any thread at the drop of a hat I would not be so quick to cast the first stone if I were you.

DtG