BS: Post Brexit life in the UK

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Jun 18 - 03:52 PM

I don't think anyone jumps any more, Raggy. We can't stop him twisting and turning though.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: The Sandman
Date: 28 Jun 18 - 05:12 PM

I think sterling will slump, an currency speculators will make money

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 28 Jun 18 - 05:29 PM

Sterling slumped the day after Brexit, from 1.31 Euro to the pound to 1.13 Euro to the pound, it has rarely risen above 1.14 Euro to the pound ever since. Thus everything we have imported since then has cost us approximately 10% more.

Yet another example of the "good" news about Brexit.

Still, as some would argue "wiv got our cuntry back"

The mere fact that my food bill alone has increased by 12 to 15 quid a week, and my income hasn't, is a small price to pay ..... isn' it?????

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Jun 18 - 02:28 AM

I watched Question Time with growing incredulity last night as the Tory speaker said that her party was united around Brexit (I didn't notice which asylum it came from)
There seems no conception whatever of the damage this farce has done, not just to the future of Britain, but to society and democracy

Brexit was soled on the populist view that immigration was bad and refugees were a menace - the claims that got Enoch Powell kicked out of his party and placed him in a position where he could only get work from a sectarian extremist part.
The immediate result of the decision was spike in racist incidents in Britain - non Brits were being approached within days and asked "when are you going home"

Fanny-grabbing Trump, with his children's cages, his wall and his "bigger button" took advantage of the same populism and dragged the white robed hoodies from their swamps

Now we have boatloads of people fleeing wars we have helped facilitate, floating on the ocean, having been refused landing permission - thanks to the same populist view that immigration is evil

What a world to pass on to our kids, eh?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Jun 18 - 02:44 AM

But, but, but, "Weer taking are cuntry back", Jim! And the Leave voters have 'hopes' it'll all turn out fine, whilst any suggestions from Remoaners that it won't all turn out fine are just 'speculation'.

It's not just their heads that are in the sand, there's only the soles of their feet above ground. Never mind though, the unicorns will arrive on 29/3/19 and everything will be luvverly.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 29 Jun 18 - 03:00 AM

Yes, Question Time is often an impressive show of determined unwillingness to face facts, but Suella Braverman took her understandable desire to show the Tories have a united purpose and merely differ on detail into a realm beyond fantasy.

I thought the audience was, in the main, more rational than normal.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 Jun 18 - 03:21 AM

RAGGY, true but the weakness in your argument is that at the same time that makes exports cheaper, none of which makes brexit a good thing but possibly the cheaper exports and deeeer imports balance each other out from the point of view of the economy, you are right however, cheaper exports are of no use to the unemployed, whereas dearer imports, means more expensive food

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 29 Jun 18 - 03:42 AM

But once Brexit is complete we will no longer have to impose the EU's protectionist tariffs on food from the rest of the world. The cost of the weekly shop should then go down.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Jun 18 - 04:03 AM

Mere speculation Nigel ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Stanron
Date: 29 Jun 18 - 04:15 AM

Dave the Gnome wrote: Mere speculation Nigel ;-)

The EU puts tarifs on foreign food. Fact not speculation. When we leave the EU we will be able to remove tariffs on foreign food. Fact, not speculation. After leaving the EU, will we remove tariffs on foreign food? That, for now. is speculation.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Jun 18 - 04:16 AM

It is not speculation that we currently have to charge tariffs on food from outside EU to protect expensive EU produce.
Likewise clothing.
Both will be tariff free when we leave.
Not speculation. Fact.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 29 Jun 18 - 04:19 AM

It is worth paying close attention to the use of 'will' and 'should' in Nigel's last post. He is definitely not saying any savings from tariff changes 'will' be passed to consumers. I am not sure if he is merely expressing possibility in that 'should' or if he also means to include a moral obligation but either way, don't count on your shopping cost coming down.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 29 Jun 18 - 04:28 AM

Exactly Dave.

Hence why, when asked for the 'good news' on Brexit my usual response is that it will come once we have achieved Brexit. Anything given now is likely to be speculation, just as many of the stories of bad news are also speculation.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 29 Jun 18 - 04:35 AM

A1 i

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 29 Jun 18 - 04:36 AM

Sorry about that last one. Pocket post!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 29 Jun 18 - 04:47 AM

So what sort of EU are we leaving after Merkel's trouncing yesterday?
Internment camps in Africa for processing wannabe migrants?


https://www.dw.com/en/opinion-angela-merkels-neck-not-of-the-noose-yet-despite-eu-migration-deal/a-44452847

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Jun 18 - 05:19 AM

Stanron, you have not been party to the ongoing discussion between me and Nigel. Either that or you are unaware what ;-) signifies.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 29 Jun 18 - 06:35 AM

Conculsions of 29 June EU meeting in regard to Brexit


As before, your reading may differ but to me the request that the UK offers 'workable and realistic' proposals, the reiteration of the need to sort of Northern Ireland and the call for all institutions to step up preparedness for all outcomes (including obviously a cliff edge next year) looks very like my earlier reading that the EU is moving to "it is no deal unless you come back with something workable and realistic".

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 29 Jun 18 - 06:55 AM

Sorry, that is the one on migration. I should have linked to this

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Jun 18 - 06:59 AM

my earlier reading that the EU is moving to "it is no deal unless you come back with something workable and realistic".

We have offered them workable and realistic, but hit a brick wall.
There are two sides to what is supposed to be a "negotiation."
No deal would harm both sides, but them more than us.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 29 Jun 18 - 07:08 AM

That is, of course, proposals the EU recognise to be workable and realistic. That is their condition for negotiation. How often we claim something to be workable and realistic is irrelevant.

This is basic sales and negotiation, folks. 'You' need a product 'they' will buy. Insisting it is wonderful when you know they don't want it is futile. You need to convincing them the offer is a good one for them.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Jun 18 - 08:11 AM

The negotiations have achieved little so far, but why do you only blame one side?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 29 Jun 18 - 09:20 AM

Who is blaming anyone? Both sides are trying to do what they see as their best interests. That is as it should be: no blame is attached.

That we are less successful is partly because we are unable comprehend that trade is not the sole interest of the EU, which is why we get this nonsense about the EU going against a deal that is in their own interests. They are not, they just have a wider view of what is in their interest than just trade.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Jun 18 - 10:43 AM

I just came across this again. I have posted it before but it is well worth doing it again.

Neither long ago nor in a galaxy far away the animal world was in harmony. The farm had grown large and unwieldy but still safe and strong. The sheep lived with the cattle and horses and worried not about the world. They were still hunted but the mighty animals, the lion and the wolf, were kept in check by the powerful elephant and strong wildebeest who had united with the sheep to ensure fairness to all.

However not all was well for the baboon wanted to lead the animals and the frog saw, with its bulging eyes, that the animals that no-one trusted could become powerful if they united against the farm. So the baboon, waving his arms and behaving like a fool, began to gather allies to their cause. The viper that had poisoned everything that it had touched became their friend and the drunken hyena, who used to feed on the weak, turned against the lion for he also wanted more power. They saw that the sheep loved to hear the donkeys bray and whatever the donkeys brayed became the mantra for the sheep. So they befriended the donkeys and told them to bray a song that half the sheep loved and half the sheep hated. This way the sheep became disunited and fought amongst themselves, ignoring the insidious manoeuvring of the unholy alliance.

“See how the farm steals your hard earned fodder,” brayed the donkeys.

“Remember how much better things were when the lion ruled you.” They sang across the land.

But the song that did the most harm was “Look at the rabbits. The farm let them in. They are eating all your grass and it is their fault that the lion eats your kin.” For this not only divided the sheep but also caused much resentment against the innocent rabbit.

So, the lion, the wolf, the elephant and the wildebeest sat together to determine what was to be done. None would lead, as they knew that whatever they did the baboon, the frog, the viper and the hyena would tell the donkeys to bray against them and the sheep would become more discontent. The mighty animals saw that the only way to silence to unholy ones was to ask the sheep who they wished to rule them. But they had not seen how divided the sheep had become and they did not understand that many would believe the donkeys over them. Half the sheep wanted to stay safe in the farm and the other half wanted the new life promised by the others. So they began to fight amongst themselves until, at last, none of them knew what was the truth and what was not.

The bald eagle and the bear, who had been bitter enemies in the past, joined with the voice of the donkeys as they wanted to rule the entire animal kingdom and saw that while the farm survived it would be in their way. The baboon and the frog knew that this was the perfect time for them to begin their reign so the sheep were forced to decide between living in thrall on the farm or trying to survive on their own in the jungle. They were evenly divided but one more sheep wanted to try the jungle than wanted to stay on the farm. So they were all forced out. The lion shook his head in disbelief and left. The frog grinned with his wide mouth. The baboon frolicked and the donkeys sang his praises while the sheep who wanted to stay in the farm wept.

Many ages later a new alliance formed. It is outside our fable to say what it will be. But the sheep survived. The lion still ate some. The old ones still went for mutton. The donkeys still brayed.

And the children were still sent to market…

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Jun 18 - 10:45 AM

It was 2 years ago today that I posted it on Facebook BTW. Can't think what may have prompted it :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 29 Jun 18 - 11:01 AM

And your point is?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Jun 18 - 11:03 AM

"negotiation."
Negotiation my arse - not when the Westminster cloewns keep moving the goalposts
They promise a soft border, then in the next breath say it wasn't a promise but an 'aim'
Who is going to trust any politician who behaves like that ?
One of the places certain to suffer is the six Northern Counties - that little piece of Ireland that calls itself British
THey don't want asea border so they insist on an internal one, butting the well-being of both sides at risk as well as the Good Friday Agreement
Even if Brexit hadn't been won on a racist ticket which is now being shown as detrimental to even the British economy, no political group should be allowed to get away with that
At least Maggie May is keeping the

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Jun 18 - 11:09 AM

Damn that prem jac

CARTOONISTS happy
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Jun 18 - 11:21 AM

They promise a soft border, then in the next breath say it wasn't a promise but an 'aim'

Not true.
They still promise it and always did.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Jun 18 - 11:26 AM

DMcG,
That we are less successful is partly because we are unable comprehend that trade is not the sole interest of the EU, which is why we get this nonsense about the EU going against a deal that is in their own interests. They are not, they just have a wider view of what is in their interest than just trade.

Not true. They have refused to even discuss trade yet.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 29 Jun 18 - 11:45 AM

It is not a term I normally use, but your last two posts are prime examples of Keithian hoops. I am not jumping.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Jun 18 - 12:27 PM

Keith freely admits he comes on here to argue, DMcG. Some of his tactics are to set traps and twist meanings. For this reason many people will no longer interact with him. You are to be commended for your patience but I and many others have tried before. I can assure you it is pointless.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 29 Jun 18 - 12:31 PM

You are to be commended for your patience
Thank you, but I have to say it is wearing very thin indeed.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Jun 18 - 01:20 PM

DMcG and Dave,
but your last two posts are prime examples of Keithian hoops.

Everything I said in those two posts,

"Not true. They have refused to even discuss trade yet. "
AND
"Not true. They still promise it and always did. "

Just two facts.
No hoops. No traps No tactics. No twists. No arguments.
Just two facts.
What is your problem?
What are you both afraid of?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Jun 18 - 01:42 PM

I think your problem is that I dared challenge you with facts.


Much easier to ignore me than to reply I suppose.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Jun 18 - 01:44 PM

Flaming hoops now, chaps.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Jun 18 - 01:45 PM

Easier to ignore facts than address them.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 29 Jun 18 - 01:47 PM

So goodbye Keith. I had taken a decision that if you carried on like this I would not respond until after I get back from my next holiday, which will be September.

You say there are no tricks or traps in what you said: I agree, that would give them too much credit. They are simply things you know are misrepresentations, such as equating Jim's accurate remark that David Davis insisted [the December document] was much more a statement of intent than "legally enforceable" almost immediately after the agreement was issued. That is what he said. Jim knows he did, I know he did and you know he did (because you commented on it earlier in the thread.)   That the official policy has always been to seen 'no hard border' matters not one whit, since what Jim was clearly talking about was the David Davis response. Which you know all about but choose to ignore by pretending the topic was the overall government policy, when you know full well it was not.

And you do this in order to persuade people to type out long explanations like this. That's what has been graced with the name of a 'hoop'. Well, sorry, that's enough. Maybe after September...

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 29 Jun 18 - 01:59 PM

A very pertinent cartoon by Rowson in todays Guardian, if someone could kindly provide a link.

It is said that a picture paints a thousand words, this cartoon certainly does.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 29 Jun 18 - 02:03 PM

Cartoon

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 29 Jun 18 - 02:10 PM

Thanks DMcG, as I said very pertinent!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 30 Jun 18 - 03:07 AM

Brexit: EU leaders say single-market access for goods a nonstarter

Following up their statement that any proposal from the UK must be workable and realistic, the EU are making clear than one of the options rumoured to be under consideration is not, so the UK need not bother proposing it. As the time for negotiation runs out, the EU is getting less willing to go through the ritual of waiting for the UK to make a self-evidently unacceptable proposal, then reject it and wait for another. Instead, it is emphasising again that the UK agreed some things back in Decemeber and only proposals that are in accord with that are worth bringing to the table.

I thought this account of the Chequers meeting due on Friday is a lovely bit of writing:

An English country house, a polite but inscrutable host and an ill-assorted band of guests, each with a motive to stab each other in the back. Theresa May’s Brexit house party at Chequers next Friday sounds more like the set-up for an Agatha Christie mystery than a cabinet meeting.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Jun 18 - 03:15 AM

Not so much a hoop now - more like ONE OF THESE
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Jun 18 - 05:10 AM

DMcG, you are more guilty of misrepresentation than me.
Jim's accurate remark that David Davis insisted [the December document] was much more a statement of intent than "legally enforceable" almost immediately after the agreement was issued. That is what he said. Jim knows he did,

Jim actually said this, "They promise a soft border, then in the next breath say it wasn't a promise but an 'aim.'"


He was wrong and I was right to correct him.
The UK position has always and unequivocally been no hard border.

Your attempts to justify ignoring facts put to you are pathetic.

the EU are making clear than one of the options rumoured to be under consideration is not, (workable and realistic)

They always claim that because they do not want a successful negotiation because they do not want us to leave.
We say it is workable and realistic, they say it is not.
Why do you only believe them and only criticise our side?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Jun 18 - 07:02 AM

Rag, I find that cartoon in incredibly bad taste.
It portrays EU leaders grinning and waving at drowning migrants, with May standing in one of the migrant boats.

What is the joke? That the migrants are being obstructed from entering EU while UK is being obstructed from leaving? Not funny!

Perhaps that we are being rejected and left to drown along with the migrants? Not funny!

What do you find so appealing about it Rag?
I think it is sick.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 30 Jun 18 - 08:20 AM

From the Guardian in response to the recent cartoon kinked above:

"

Amazing how Remainers have lost any criticism of the EU. To them it is all dancing unicorns in a verdant forest the UK was made to leave.

Meanwhile back on planet earth the summit from a couple of days ago proves yet again what a dysfunctional, useless organisation it is. 10 hours of negotiating to come up with no agreement, but a communique because they had to have one which lasted about all of a day before that got undermined.

Next to no coverage of Macron and his grand plan which was next to ignored where reform of the euro got binned. All of this only a couple of months before Italy will have a budget breaking near enough every rule in the book. No amount of EU fudge will paper over the cracks of what Italy will do, and the EU [read Germany] refuse them to do so. Should be fun as if they try that Italy will defy them with a parallel currency and that puts the euro on death watch.

So the question remains as to what will hole the EU under the waterline. Their inability to solve the migrant crisis, or the eurocrisis? Probably a combination of both. Thank god the British electorate saw sense to vote out of the clutches of those loonies.

Look forward to the Guardian coverage when they start fighting like ferrets in a sack again, with the Remoaners coming up with pathetic excuses of why we should stay attached to those loonies."

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 30 Jun 18 - 08:21 AM

Surge in people obtaining EU citizenship

Note this excludes those people who are entitled to Irish citizenship by ancestry - like me. My Irish application is in process, but they have said it make six months.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 30 Jun 18 - 08:49 AM

When you say that is from the Guardian am I right in thinking it is not from anyone employed by Guardian, but by an ordinary member of the public in their comments section? If so, it is as reasonable or unreasonable to say it is from the Guardian as to claim anything in the Have Your Say section of the BBC website is a statement 'from the BBC'

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 30 Jun 18 - 09:21 AM

Pretty obvious it was a comment I would have thought. Such controversial ideas would never pass the editorial censors of the gruniard.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Jun 18 - 10:52 AM

"Meanwhile back on planet earth "
Your hardly merited arrogance gets a little tiresome Iains - it's long since it was entertaining
You sneer at information you are given, you ignore what others say, your appear to have placed yourself on an imaginary pedestal from which you look down and sneer at everything around you
You never attempt to debate with anybody
Your own "information" is drawn from the worst examples that narrow minded and bigoted Little Britain has to offer
Why are you here unless it is not a peacock display drawn from your own imagination?
Do you really think as highly of yourself as you appear to?
Jim Carroll