BS: Post Brexit life in the UK

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Feb 18 - 05:32 AM

Bury black puds will be better after brexit, Steve. I am sure the Daily Mail reported that they were banned under EU legislation...

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Feb 18 - 05:19 AM

Given your plethora of silly and insulting postings here, I'd say your time isn't as valuable as you think. As for that sentence, you quoted it, you say. Well I'd say don't quote incorrect things to make your case. They have the effect of doing the complete opposite. You do a lot of that. 'Scuse me, I have a Bury black pudding brunch to rustle up. Now that IS a valuable use of time.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 28 Feb 18 - 05:01 AM

Shaw I am only going to say this once:
The sentence you are having a problem with was quoted by me. I did not write it. Have you managed to get this fact in your remarkably thick head?
   Therefore if you have an issue with it why on earth are you wittering to me about it?
I am not my brother's keeper.
Go away and have a witter to the chappie that wrote the article. You are wasting my valuable time
You are also a fool.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Feb 18 - 04:41 AM

You have in in a nutshell there, Dave, or should I say a Salmonella-fee eggshell. It really isn't hard, is it! :-)

I can hardly hear a thing here for the clamour of balls dropping off brass monkeys. We've had to cancel us trip up north due to predictions of tomorrow's apocalypse. I'm seeing icebergiferous hallucinations. We have a wind that could cut you in half, given three minutes standing at t'bus stop...

I blame Brexit...

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 28 Feb 18 - 04:28 AM

Sorry, DMcG: I take that back.
Mr Maruyama did go on to mention chlorinated chicken, but it came after the comments by Jeremy Corbyn, so I did not connect the two.

“A customs union presupposes a single tariff for all members and presupposes the illumination of all regulatory barriers within the union, and that implies a degree of harmonisation between UK and UK,” he said.

“If the UK is bound to precautionary principles and food standards, that’s a big problem and the US is watching that closely.

“You would be stuck with some of the EU’s restrictive policies that would preclude the importation of GMOs (genetically modified organisms), chlorinated chicken, hormone treated beef.”

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 28 Feb 18 - 03:32 AM

From: DMcG - PM
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 01:36 PM
Wow, people have been busy posting today! I have a lot of reading to catch up on.

Nigel, I'd be grateful if you could explain how David Davis' remarks:

David Davis said the UK wanted to lead a "global race to the top" in rights and standards not, as some feared, a "competitive race to the bottom".

... promising the UK will "continue our track record of meeting high standards" once outside the EU.

from the BBC site, but lots of other places quote it)


fits with
(a) with the link I posted saying the US would be reluctant to do a trade deal at all unless we let the chlorinated chicken in

The link you posted does not say that.

The link you posted says:
Warren Maruyama, who developed the North Atlantic Trade Agreement (NAFTA) under President George H.W Bush, said the UK faced a "big problem" if it went into future trade talks while bound by EU regulations on food standards.

"Under our system Congress gets the ultimate say and if we do a free trade agreement it has to pass the Congress," Mr Maruyama told the Telegraph.

"If American agriculture is opposed to a UK free trade agreement, I wouldn’t say it’s dead on arrival but it’s pretty close. It would be a serious hurdle."

It then went on to mention chlorine washed chicken by way of a comment from Jeremy Corbyn.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Feb 18 - 02:36 AM

Usage, usage and usage again. As has been oft repeated before usage is everything. Use of antimicrobials to remove bacteria from dead matter does not diminish the effect of antibiotics to remove micro organisms from living humans or animals. Even I can understand that and I don't even know how to spell syense.

Now, any new good reports about brexit? No? What a surprise.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 07:13 PM

Of course. But you then go on to confuse the two with your hands clapped over your ears. And you're appealing to authority again, by the way.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 07:04 PM

"But you really don't get this and you are making a fool of yourself. You both need to clarify the difference between antimicrobials (hot water, soap, hand gels, Dettol, Harpic, chlorine, Savlon, etc) and the far narrower category, antibiotics."

Strange. my definitions have antibiotics included in antimicrobials.
Who is right and who is wrong I wonder?

My definitions come from a teaching resource regarding Antimicrobial Resistance in Veterinary Medicine with contributors including Michigan State University, the University of Minnesota and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

I think I have a little more confidence in the above than the incorrect output of a conceited exteacher that thinks he is a well educated scientist.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 06:59 PM

Genuine scientists make mistakes, Iains. Isaac Newton believed in alchemy. The great thing about scientists is that we never appeal to authority, unlike you. Au contraire. There have been too many bad scientists. In my own field, John Heslop-Harrison was revered. Look him up. When I was at Imperial College we raw students hung on to his every word, though his Lamarckism seemed dubious. Well, what a fraud he was. Scepticism is built into our bones. We dismiss all notions that can't quickly produce backup evidence. Of course, you don't understand these things. For a start, you rely on Guido, the Mail, the Telegraph and the Express. You don't see the obvious problem with that. You choose sources that massage your visceral need for confirmation bias, just about the most unscientific defect that anyone can suffer from. You remind me of those pseudo-scientists who work for some pharmaceutical companies, one of those guys who suppresses adverse evidence that doesn't fit your mission (which is why we got Vioxx killing thousands of people). You are tabloid-brainwashed and can't see things objectively, and your ego won't let you back down when you get things wrong, which is an unfortunately-frequent occurrence. On this occasion you have demonstrated that you can't, or won't, distinguish between antimicrobial and antibiotic, despite plenty of prompting in the right direction. When Jim, Dave or I get something arse about face, we back down and, if necessary, apologise. It's an important attribute of being a balanced human being that, so far, has evaded you.

Insult away. Diminish yourself further. Or be dignified. Your decision.

Anyway, back to the substantive. Here's Boris on the Irish border issue:

"We think that we can have very efficient facilitation systems to make sure that there's no need for a hard border, excessive checks at the frontier between Northern Ireland and the Republic," he said.
"There's no border between Islington or Camden and Westminster... but when I was mayor of London we anaesthetically and invisibly took hundreds of millions of pounds from the accounts of people travelling between those two boroughs without any need for border checks whatever."

Profound stuff, eh? :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 06:58 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 06:44 PM

Boring, boring, boring
"There's a possibility that such antimicrobials engender resistance - but resistance to antimicrobials used in that manner, NOT to antibiotics, which are, quite simply, NOT used in that manner."
But all antibiotics are antimicrobials

THIS IS VERY HARD WORK! none so blind as those that cannot see.
Antibiotics Versus Antimicrobials

An ANTIBIOTIC is a low molecular substance produced by a microorganism that at a low concentration inhibits or kills other microorganisms.

An ANTIMICROBIAL is any substance of natural, semisynthetic or synthetic origin that kills or inhibits the growth of microorganisms but causes little or no damage to the host.i.e.
The term “antimicrobials” include all agents that act against all types of microorganisms – bacteria (antibacterial), viruses (antiviral), fungi (antifungal) and protozoa (antiprotozoal).

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 06:39 PM

There is one line in your post of 03.52 Iains which should concern us all and that is:

"One in 12 companies is planning to shift its UK investments to other markets, mostly elsewhere within the EU."

If this were to come to fruition no doubt many jobs will be lost in the UK, in addition to those companies already mentioned (Banking, Finance etc) who are already relocating some of their operations outside the UK

Brexiteers seem to be quite complacent about this outcome ........

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 06:12 PM

Shaw as ever you are a bore. In this case a very boring bore, in fact the boringest of boring bores. Take your pathetic squeals to those that wrote the original linked articles. I am sure as well educated genuine scientists they would have no problem with politely telling you to *&&^%%% off!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 05:16 PM

Boris considers a hard border in Ireland , according to Sky News.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 04:34 PM

You are right as ever DMcG and well said peteaberdeen. I hope things do turn out for the best with your family but somehow doubt that the present administration care about their plight. As I said before, to these people it is all about profit and the bottom line. Stuff the welfare of people, let alone animals. If the economic forecast is gloomy, it is even worse for the welfare of our children and our children's children. Let's get the shower that are ruining the country out and replace them with someone who actualy cares. It's the only way I can see of extracting ourselves from the brown smelly stuff.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 04:27 PM

Obviously as time goes on , all these formidable speculations will begin to harden and many of your judgment calls and intractable conflicts will be set in stone. You have my sympathies in advance.

As things come into focus in the future the UK will be able to set fears aside. It is a heritage in which you all should be proud.
To me England has always been the original home of the brave.

sorry I don't mean to be maudlin.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 04:00 PM

Happy days are here again............!
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/02/25/hammond-set-15bn-windfall-economic-forecasts-upgraded/

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 03:52 PM

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/924875/german-companies-panicking-brexit-looms-survey

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 03:43 PM

(unsure if) our daughter and her estonian partner will ever be able to live in the uk... it may not seem that important to concern yourselves on the human rights of a few million displaced or uncertain citizens but....well, it matters to me.

Very well said. People have to be at the centre of this. Trade deals and tariffs only matter for the effects they have on people.

I am aware of the opposite situation. My sister and her husband have felt obliged to sell the house they have lived in in Germany for some 15 years and where they had intended to live for the rest of their lives, to move back to the UK because of the uncertainty over the health care rules. it MIGHT gave all been ok, but there is still no guarantee. I could have been in a similar position to you with my Italian daughter in law, but she took UK citizenship a decade or so ago.

These things matter.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 03:33 PM

Sorry, Iains but you're all at sea. The original offending sentence contains an error of conflation. And I never said that antimicrobial THERAPY will "work on a corpse" or anything remotely like it. Antimicrobial washes will kill germs on dead meat. That's what this fuss is all about - using the antimicrobial substance chlorine to kill germs on dead chickens during their processing. There's a possibility that such antimicrobials engender resistance - but resistance to antimicrobials used in that manner, NOT to antibiotics, which are, quite simply, NOT used in that manner. That's what was wrong with your sentence. It doesn't matter whether it was Crick, Watson or Einstein who said it - it was a mistake. If it's wrong it's wrong. The Pope sez there's a God, and he's wrong too, and he's the Pope. Instead of lashing out in order to preserve what's left of your shredded ego, go and look it up. And by that I don't mean spending the next hour trying to find something that confirms your misunderstanding.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 02:56 PM

The original sentence was by a Lecturer in Food Safety, Food Quality and Environmental Management summarising the sentence above by saying:
The European Food Safety Authority has found no conclusive evidence that antimicrobial chemicals used in food processing contribute to antibiotic resistance."instead of The BIOHAZ Panel concluded that despite a long history of use, there are currently no published data to conclude that the application of the four substances - chlorine dioxide, acidified sodium chlorite,trisodium phosphate, peroxyacids (EFSA, 2008a) to remove microbial contamination of poultry carcasses at the proposed conditions of use will lead to the occurrence of acquired reduced susceptibility to biocides or resistance to therapeutic antimicrobials.

Now I think everyone but shaw realises that an antimicrobial therapy will not work on a corpse - By then therapy is a little late, the parrot is not on it's perch so to speak. Get it now?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3031442/

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: peteglasgow
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 02:52 PM

i've got to be very impressed with folks' facility with chucking around scientific facts about chicken. but i don't think all this technical detail will ever sway anyone with an opinion on the wider brexit topic.to be honest i'm a bit bored with all the political and economic arguments as well. way back to just after the vote everyone stressed how keen they were to sort out the question of british citizens on the mainland and european workers. now, our friend andrea has gone back to italy and thousands more good workers have returned back to their homes and we are no nearing knowing if our daughter and her estonian partner will ever be able to live in the uk. given the chaos in our public services and the thousands of people really suffering from tory inertia while they concentrate exclusively on their ridiculous brexit adventure, it may not seem that important to concern yourselves on the human rights of a few million displaced or uncertain citizens but....well, it matters to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 02:35 PM

The BIOHAZ Panel concluded that despite a long history of use, there are currently no published data to conclude that the application of the four substances - chlorine dioxide, acidified sodium chlorite,
trisodium phosphate, peroxyacids (EFSA, 2008a) to remove microbial contamination of poultry carcasses at the proposed conditions of use will lead to the occurrence of acquired reduced susceptibility to biocides or resistance to therapeutic antimicrobials.

Not as disreputable as you shaw!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 01:53 PM

From your 06.18 post, Iains:

"The European Food Safety Authority has found no conclusive evidence that antimicrobial chemicals used in food processing contribute to antibiotic resistance.
It is just another bleat from remainers."

There ya go - the first mention of antibiotics came from you. And the sentence makes a blatantly incorrect conflation. Your constant appeal to authority is misplaced. The antimicrobials (chlorine, for example) used in food processing are NOT antibiotics and DO NOT lead to antibiotic resistance. They can lead to antimicrobial resistance, for sure. I have a feeling that that is what the sentence really meant. But that is a very different matter. Any substance that kills bacteria is an antimicrobial. That includes antibiotics. But antibiotics are used in living animals only and are NOT used in food processing. Your quoted sentence can't mean that because it simply doesn't happen. There would be no point. It's true that traces of antibiotics may remain in meat. Yuk. But those antibiotics are NOT USED in food processing and that is NOT what your sentence is referring to. Instead of trying to come up with an even bigger insult, read that again. Look it up if you like. Try to find a reputable source. I know you find that hard, but it's the only way, honest.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 01:49 PM

And on the safety question there are figures on the frequency of foodborne illness in the US in a population of around 323 million.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 01:36 PM

Wow, people have been busy posting today! I have a lot of reading to catch up on.

Nigel, I'd be grateful if you could explain how David Davis' remarks:


David Davis said the UK wanted to lead a "global race to the top" in rights and standards not, as some feared, a "competitive race to the bottom".

... promising the UK will "continue our track record of meeting high standards" once outside the EU.

(from the BBC site, but lots of other places quote it)


fits with
(a) with the link I posted saying the US would be reluctant to do a trade deal at all unless we let the chlorinated chicken in

and (b) with the fact that for many people the 'standards' include animal welfare, as evidenced by the row that broke out when people mistakenly thought that Parliament was not acknowledging animal sentience.

Whether the food is safe or not is only part of the equation because of those animal welfare concerns, and no amount of scientific evidence it is safe will address that concern.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 01:29 PM

"Iains, please tell me where among all that verbiage there is any mention of antibiotics."

Answer. No where. You first introduced the word and appear to have a fixation on antibiotics. Is it the new word of the moment - a substitute for unfocused or insecure mayhap?

Have you tried therapy?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 01:13 PM

NOW THERE'S A FUNNY THING!
One the opinions of an unknown - the other a report from the security services
I particularly liked this bit
“In the last few days, The Sun, The Mail, The Telegraph and The Express have all gone a little bit James Bond."
Where does that leave you?
Take your pick Keith - I have no doubt who you will choose
Any comment on Brexit being faciitated by terrorist-linked UVF Russia and LePen employee yet - no?
Thought not!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 12:58 PM

From Steve

Antibiotic resistance can't be brought about by non-antibiotic antimicrobials.

From Nigel

Antimicrobials is a broader term, but (unless specifically excluded)includes antibiotics.

Is it me or did Steve specifically exclude antibiotics?

I think everyone knows what I will put it down to but over and over again there are examples of it. I can fully understand what Steve and Raggy mean. Some others speak a...

Have guessed yet?

Different language!

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 12:57 PM

"But it is not the animals/meat which are the target of antibiotics it is the microbials (bacteria etc.) The fact that the host animal is dead doesn't prevent any microbials present from building resistance to the antibiotics used. (assuming they are not all successfully killed) "

It is worth emphasizing that any animal treatment regime generally stipulates a minimum time period must elapse between cessation of treatment and subsequent slaughter.

For example: SUMMER DIP. use to treat and control Blowfly and Sheep Scab (Psoroptes ovis) in Sheep. Contains Diazinon (Dimpylate) 10% w.v. Excipient-solvent naphtha (petroleum) heavy aromatic mixture.

Withdrawal Periods :        Animals intended for human consumption must not be slaughtered during treatment. Sheep intended for human consumption may only be slaughtered from 35 days after the last treatment. Not for use on ewes producing milk for human consumption.

And we had best not talk about chicken shit once fed as a protein supplement to ruminants(and still is in places)

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 12:55 PM

Well Iains, the first point is that the article is dated March 2015.

Do you what, if any, measures have been taken since then to counteract the levels of bacterial infections.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 12:34 PM

"I'm perfectly happy for you to pass off the bad science to someone else. But bad science it was. And you quoted it as if you thought it was OK. It isn't."

Shaw do you really think I give a shit about what you think. I will rely on the opinion of experts. If you are so stupid you wish to argue the toss with them, feel free.

Just remember, the authors are real scientists, not a pretend one like you.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 12:22 PM

Pass the chlorine!

https://www.farmersjournal.ie/ireland-has-highest-rate-of-poultry-food-poisoning-bacteria-in-europe-176210


https://www.vox.com/2015/3/6/8158289/food-poisoning

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 12:11 PM

From: Raggytash - PM
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 11:23 AM

So where do you suggest ........ South America, South Africa and Australasia.

Perhaps if we were to follow that route we would have to pay for the refrigerated shipping.

Wonder who would pick up the tab for that.

We already import a large volume of meat from Australasia. the only difference Brexit would make is in import tariffs. The transport is already being paid for 9or included in the price)

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 12:09 PM

For you Jim.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/25/corbyn-czechoslovakian-spy-cold-war-long-shadow-labour-left

You are a cold war ignoramus.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 11:57 AM

He was just being groomed for future use.
FOR YOU KEITH
You are a Cold War moron Keith
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 11:45 AM

Steve,
The legs have dropped off...The fat lady has sung...

He did cavort with a "Czeck" spy. He had at least three meetings.
The apology was for suggesting he sold secrets, for which there is no evidence and which Jezza did not have access to anyway.
He was just being groomed for future use.

Rag, will you be reporting me for a libel action again?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 11:42 AM

No, The term antimicrobials includes antibiotics. Antimicrobials is a broader term, but (unless specifically excluded)includes antibiotics.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 11:32 AM

Nigel, your confusion knows no bounds. Iains, please tell me where among all that verbiage there is any mention of antibiotics. None of the substances referred to are antibiotics. TCP is a "therapeutic biocide" but is not an antibiotic. There is a difference. Antibiotics are not used on carcases, therefore there is no opportunity for bacteria to develop resistance to them in that context. Developing resistance to antibiotics takes place in an environment in which antibiotics are present. In fact, mutations for resistance may already be present in bacterial populations, but the conditions required for their selection over non-resistance can take place only in an environment containing antibiotic. Feel free to cling on to this and feel free to continue posting your gleefully-brainless insults. But you really don't get this and you are making a fool of yourself. You both need to clarify the difference between antimicrobials (hot water, soap, hand gels, Dettol, Harpic, chlorine, Savlon, etc) and the far narrower category, antibiotics. Antibiotic resistance can't be brought about by non-antibiotic antimicrobials. Resistance to those non-antibiotic antimicrobials can, on the other hand. You are both resorting to an unhelpful conflation.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 11:23 AM

So where do you suggest ........ South America, South Africa and Australasia.

Perhaps if we were to follow that route we would have to pay for the refrigerated shipping.

Wonder who would pick up the tab for that.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 11:14 AM

The world does not comprise merely EU & USA.
Perhaps it is this idea which makes you think the EU is such a great idea, as you see only one alternative.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 11:02 AM

"but we will have greater scope to get supply from outside the EU without their protective import tariffs."

Oh you mean places like the USA with appalling hygiene practices.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 10:46 AM

From: Raggytash
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 10:40 AM
Time will tell regarding the tariffs.

I take it you have also heard of supply and demand. If the UK consumer demands European meat products we may find that the producers increase costs over and above current rates.

I assume you mean the producers would increase prices. No producer wishes to increase his costs.

And supply and demand will come into effect, but we will have greater scope to get supply from outside the EU without their protective import tariffs.
Supply and demand could force the EU to reduce their prices in order to compete.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 10:40 AM

Time will tell regarding the tariffs.

I take it you have also heard of supply and demand. If the UK consumer demands European meat products we may find that the producers increase costs over and above current rates.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 10:32 AM

Yes I've heard of export tariffs. they are usually imposed by countries trying to increase home consumption.
They make little or no sense in the matter currently under discussion.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 10:26 AM

"Your speech marks ended just before that bit about antimicrobial doodah, which made that bit appear to be part of your own remarks, which then ended with your bleating remainers thingie"

well now you know better , you silly little lad. The actual author of the article is The Scientific Panel on Biological Hazards (BIOHAZ)

"microorganisms on poultry carcasses (EFSA, 2005b).
The BIOHAZ Panel concluded that the use of substance(s) for decontaminating treatments will be
regarded efficacious when any reduction of the prevalence and/or numbers of pathogenic target
pathogenic microorganisms is statistically significant when compared to the control (e.g. water) and,
at the same time, this reduction has a positive impact on reduction of human illness cases

(EFSA,
2008a). On the one hand efficacy depends on a range of factors such as concentration, contact time, temperature and mode of application, the microbial load of the surface and other conditions of application.
In addition, concern has recently been raised about the potential for microorganism(s) to develop resistance to substances used for decontamination of carcasses. In most cases, such resistance could
be developed following the improper use or storage of the substances resulting in a decrease in theireffectiveness (EFSA, 2008a).
The BIOHAZ Panel concluded that despite a long history of use, there are currently no published data to conclude that the application of the four substances - chlorine dioxide, acidified sodium chlorite,
trisodium phosphate, peroxyacids (EFSA, 2008a) to remove microbial contamination of poultry carcasses at the proposed conditions of use will lead to the occurrence of acquired reduced susceptibility to biocides or resistance to therapeutic antimicrobials.

And you with your hubris of a second rate union activist think you know better than the experts.
You Sir, are a fool.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 10:19 AM

From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 09:10 AM
Whatever. Whoever wrote it was seriously misinformed. Treating food with antimicrobials during processing has no impact on antibiotic resistance whatsoever. Nowt to do with it. Antibiotics are used on living animals, not dead bodies, so antibiotic resistance don't come into it.

The above from our "well-educated scientist/biologist".

But it is not the animals/meat which are the target of antibiotics it is the microbials (bacteria etc.) The fact that the host animal is dead doesn't prevent any microbials present from building resistance to the antibiotics used. (assuming they are not all successfully killed)

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 10:10 AM

Never heard of export tariffs then Nigel.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 10:05 AM

From: Raggytash - PM
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 09:52 AM

EU meat from the EU Nigel, not US meat through the EU.

The EU may deem it fit to apply tariffs to such transactions.

Keep trying. If it is EU meat, and we are buying it from the EU, then it is NOT the EU which decides whether to apply tariffs.