BS: Post Brexit life in the UK

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Oct 17 - 05:20 AM

dave,
Maybe because you rigorously defend him and his actions even though he is a complete tosspot, Keith.

I never have. Confusing me with someone else or making shit up?
I am not defending him now, but why is he "a complete tosspot."
Puerile abuse.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 14 Oct 17 - 03:30 AM

Getting very tetchy shaw! Is this because a few more are having the audacity to question your incessant gibberings?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Oct 17 - 06:43 PM

Billy Connolly said that, as a lad, he always thought that the name of his team was "Partick Nil."

Nothing seems to have changed. It's the British way: soldier on. But things are not what they seem. As McGrath of Harlow pointed out, as you fall from the top of the skyscraper the view is grand, the sun's shining, you have the breeze in your hair and the little fluffy clouds look lovely. Thing is, you haven't quite noticed the ground rapidly coming up at you. We call the phenomenon brexit.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: peteglasgow
Date: 13 Oct 17 - 06:26 PM

doneul - yes and no. it's a different, insidiuos mood. people are divided and you occasionally hear a row or have one yourself. our friend andrea has gone back (after 16 years teaching kids with special needs)to bologna as he had no certainty about future job prospects but had a firm offer back in italy. we used to watch west ham together, my friend bob died and my son moved to leeds. now it's just me - i blame brexit) it's tiring and boring to have to constantly stand up for decency and peace. a young man i work with told me 'iam going to teach you a lesson about socialism/capitalism on wednesday - he is a trump supporter and feels confident to lecture someone who has been reading and having this discussions for 45 years. i'm very happy to discuss but not to be lectured about how the state should have no role in business and how DT supports poor people by giving them all his wages etc etc...
but yes, nothing much changes. it rains, scotland fail to qualify for another tournament. the government lies and fails poorer people, and flog weapons to arm the culprits in the 9th of november twin towers.people die, people dance, some play music while others look for the main chance.it rains and celtic can't lose while partick thistle can't win

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Oct 17 - 06:04 PM

I have been told that nothing has really changed in the day to day routine for folks in the UK so far.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Oct 17 - 05:45 PM

In your opinion. Idiot.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 13 Oct 17 - 03:58 PM

From EU’s chief negotiator, Jean-Claude Juncker:"The Europeans have to be grateful for so many things Britain has brought to Europe before war, during war, after war. But now they have to pay.”
Time to just walk out the door and leave the EU idiots to it!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Oct 17 - 02:19 PM

Maybe because you rigorously defend him and his actions even though he is a complete tosspot, Keith. But if you say he is no hero of yours, who am I to argue. You know yourself better than I do so I will take your word for it. Maybe you would offer me the same courtesy when you start to claim that you know what I meant better than me?

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Oct 17 - 01:50 PM

That was Farage Dave. Far from a hero of mine. Why do you claim such shit?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Oct 17 - 01:42 PM

Here is an interesting point from your hero back in May 2016, Keith.

52%/48% vote should lead to a second referendum

Someone thinks that a narrow margin is not as clear as you suggest. Wonder why he has not done anything about it?

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Oct 17 - 01:34 PM

Like many of the far Left you think people too stupid to be given the choice. The referendum was democratic.
Both sides put their case and both sides challenged the other's case.
There was a clear if close result.
You lost.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Oct 17 - 11:42 AM

Democracy can’t be predicated on being ignorant or having only simplistic notions. There was nothing democratic about the crowd baying for Barabbas or thousands baying for Hitler at one of his rallies. If you peddle populism or lies or promote Trump-like philistinism you are not only being undemocratic, you are being anti-democratic. Democracy, giving people political choices (which isn’t just letting them stick a cross in a box), has to be based on education and all the correct, neutral information needed to make the choice. That doesn’t mean you can’t campaign for your side, but it does mean that you can’t call yourself a democrat if you try to pull the wool over people’s eyes. Now discuss Boris’s battle bus in that context...

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: MikeL2
Date: 13 Oct 17 - 10:11 AM

Hi Steve

<" 13 Oct 17 - 06:49 AM ">

Of course you are right.

The problem was caused by the Government ( Cameron ) setting out the Referendum giving the view to many people that the result of the vote would be irreversible. He warned the Country " There will be no going back, you get one chance only."

Of course he made that statement in the mistaken belief that the vote would be a landslide for Remain.

That gave millions of voters that the the vote was Democratic. This appears to be the view of the senior Tories still.

In my more reflective moments I wonder how all this would be seen had the vote gone the other way.!!!

PS I have have been trying to get tickets for Anfield - my usual contacts have not come up with any. I will be glued to the TV. It will be a real test for Man United - they have played very ordinary teams so far. Tomorrow should be a good test for both sides.

Regards

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Oct 17 - 08:44 AM

As I said, bad news piles on bad news every day.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 13 Oct 17 - 08:21 AM

In todays Guardian there is a report regarding David Davis the Brexit Secretary, unwillingness to divulge information gathered by 50 (FIFTY) studies commission by the governement into the effects of Brexit on Industry not only to the public to to fellow members of the House of Commons.


What, if anything, is being hidden.

It would seem a legal challenge to this may be forthcoming.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 13 Oct 17 - 07:58 AM

From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 13 Oct 17 - 06:49 AM

Well you cast your vote in both. In the one you are choosing who you want to represent you and run the affairs of the parish/town/county/nation. Next time round you can change your mind or vote again for the same lot. Or you can vote tactically. There are various ways of deciding who’s won. In this country we have an unfair first-past-the-post system. In the other we are either voting for an irrevocable (more or less) decision to make a significant change (no next time round) or a reversible decision (another referendum is perfectly possible) to keep the status quo. Which is why an unqualified first-past-the-post setup is simply not right for referendums.

I think you're confusing 'first past the post' with 'simple majority' voting.

The main problems with 'first past the post' is that it is used for general elections and will result in one group getting many more MPs (who each just get first place with a small portion of the population) than their overall 'vote-share' would suggest.
The alternate to this could be 'proportional representation'.

For a referendum, the only question is what percentage of the total vote is obtained by either side of the question. The referendum will set out what percentage is required for one side to be a decisive winner. 'proportional representation' would have no benefits here. We can't pull the UK 52% out of the EU. We needed to decide whether to be in or out. 'Tactical voting' would have no effect. The only sensible thing to do is to vote for the outcome that you would wish to see.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Oct 17 - 06:49 AM

Well you cast your vote in both. In the one you are choosing who you want to represent you and run the affairs of the parish/town/county/nation. Next time round you can change your mind or vote again for the same lot. Or you can vote tactically. There are various ways of deciding who’s won. In this country we have an unfair first-past-the-post system. In the other we are either voting for an irrevocable (more or less) decision to make a significant change (no next time round) or a reversible decision (another referendum is perfectly possible) to keep the status quo. Which is why an unqualified first-past-the-post setup is simply not right for referendums.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Oct 17 - 06:13 AM

If you want to turn yourself into another Iains/Teribus clone, Nigel, do feel free. You haven’t made a single valid point about anything inconsistent or contradictory that I’ve said and your posts flogging this particular dead equine are getting less and less focused. If you want to carry on being tiresome, you can be tiresome on your own from now on.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Stu
Date: 13 Oct 17 - 05:57 AM

It is an interesting question. There might be a difference in whether a vote in an election is the same as in a referendum as a referendum is advisory, not legally binding whereas a vote in an election would be binding? Just guessing.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: akenaton
Date: 13 Oct 17 - 05:07 AM

I agree entirely Nigel, a referendum is exclusively on one issue and is carefully worded as such.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 13 Oct 17 - 04:18 AM

From: DMcG - PM
Date: 13 Oct 17 - 01:52 AM
The democratic vote was to leave the EU.
As a point of interest, I'd like to hear what people think is the difference between a vote and a referendum. And since we've discussed the advisory/compulsory aspect of the headline result a lot, we can take those arguments as read. Is there any other difference?

Interesting question.
I can't really see that there is a defining difference in the two terms. A referendum is an opportunity to display your wishes by voting. A vote (as a noun) can either be your statement of your individual preference, or the event in which you are given the opportunity to cast that vote.
If there is any real difference I would say that a vote (in terms of the 'event') is usually used for elections etc., whereas a referendum will usually be a method of finding the prevalent view on a single issue.
So the referendum asked whether we wished to remain part of the EU, while the election asks which party, or local MP, we trust most to run the country according to our more general preferences.

I accept that others may have totally different views, but I'm just giving mine, as I see it.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 13 Oct 17 - 04:02 AM

From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 12 Oct 17 - 07:35 PM
So you are trying to pretend that two posts of mine are in some way contradictory "because they're in the same thread." Sleep well, Nigel, and don't forget to say goodnight to the folks... and when you wake up tomorrow, do try to stick to the substantive. Nighty night!
Your grasp of the English language is appalling.
The posts are 'contradictory' because they show conflicting views. (something you can't deny, so don't attempt to)
They are 'related' by being in the same thread (and by the same person, dealing with the same subject matter. (you tried to distance yourself from one or both of the comments by saying they were unrelated)

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 13 Oct 17 - 01:52 AM

The democratic vote was to leave the EU.

As a point of interest, I'd like to hear what people think is the difference between a vote and a referendum. And since we've discussed the advisory/compulsory aspect of the headline result a lot, we can take those arguments as read. Is there any other difference?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Oct 17 - 07:35 PM

So you are trying to pretend that two posts of mine are in some way contradictory "because they're in the same thread." Sleep well, Nigel, and don't forget to say goodnight to the folks... and when you wake up tomorrow, do try to stick to the substantive. Nighty night!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 12 Oct 17 - 07:12 PM

From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 12 Oct 17 - 05:52 PM
The two posts are completely unrelated,
They are on the same thread, and deal with the same subject matter, and are posted by the same person. - How 'related' do you want them to be?

there's nothing inconsistent in them and you are being mischievous. No-one I know is trying to "overturn a democratic vote." Those who are campaigning for a change of mind are going about it entirely democratically. I didn't say you were trying to do it by force. The democratic vote was to leave the EU. You are putting your arguments to try to persuade people that UK should remain in the EU. If this happens the result of the referendum will have been overturned. Isn't that what I said?

No-one is planting bombs, pointing guns, rigging votes, threatening people on the doorstep, organising violent demonstrations, talking hate speech or kidnapping the prime minister. and I never said anything to suggest that they were.

In a free country with free speech I'm fully entitled to make the case, even now, for remaining in the EU as strongly and fervently as I can. My opinion is that the referendum was fatally flawed, both because the bar was set inappropriately and in that the campaign was a complete disgrace from start to finish. I'm not going to be told by anyone that my demurring from that is "undemocratic" when it's actually precisely the opposite. Your accusing me of "trying to overturn a democratic vote" is emotional, undemocratic, fascistic and is a full reflection of your insecurity. My view is that most leavers are now privately reconsidering their position.
You are entitled to hold that view, no matter how inaccurate it might be. I have a similar view that many who voted to remain have since seen that the promised cataclysms never happened and that a further vote may command an even higher majority to vote 'Leave'.

Of course, hubris may prevent many from coming out - for now. The whole thing is collapsing day by day around your ears. Our ears. Every night the news is apocalyptic. It's an impending bloody disaster that we are being steered into by the most inept government I can remember in my lifetime.
Yes, the current government does appear somewhat inept, but at least they are trying to do the job that the people have elected them, and instructed them, to do.

You won't admit it now. I do understand that. You have your pride. But you were wrong and, deep down, you know it. I'll give you six months, by which time you'll have to eat shit.
A lovely turn of phrase you have there. do you mean "eat your words" or were you brought up a 'potty-mouth'. Your mother would be so proud!

Or you could act with a bit more grace and humility and admit, finally, that brexit is going to be the biggest disaster in generations. You will have to, sooner or later.
Dream on!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Oct 17 - 05:52 PM

The two posts are completely unrelated, there's nothing inconsistent in them and you are being mischievous. No-one I know is trying to "overturn a democratic vote." Those who are campaigning for a change of mind are going about it entirely democratically. No-one is planting bombs, pointing guns, rigging votes, threatening people on the doorstep, organising violent demonstrations, talking hate speech or kidnapping the prime minister. In a free country with free speech I'm fully entitled to make the case, even now, for remaining in the EU as strongly and fervently as I can. My opinion is that the referendum was fatally flawed, both because the bar was set inappropriately and in that the campaign was a complete disgrace from start to finish. I'm not going to be told by anyone that my demurring from that is "undemocratic" when it's actually precisely the opposite. Your accusing me of "trying to overturn a democratic vote" is emotional, undemocratic, fascistic and is a full reflection of your insecurity. My view is that most leavers are now privately reconsidering their position. Of course, hubris may prevent many from coming out - for now. The whole thing is collapsing day by day around your ears. Our ears. Every night the news is apocalyptic. It's an impending bloody disaster that we are being steered into by the most inept government I can remember in my lifetime. You won't admit it now. I do understand that. You have your pride. But you were wrong and, deep down, you know it. I'll give you six months, by which time you'll have to eat shit. Or you could act with a bit more grace and humility and admit, finally, that brexit is going to be the biggest disaster in generations. You will have to, sooner or later.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 12 Oct 17 - 05:20 PM

"If you have a better analysis (not a disingenuous one, please), then let's be having it."
all I have seen so far is opinions, not facts. Analysis of an opinion is an exercise in futility.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 12 Oct 17 - 05:12 PM

From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 12 Oct 17 - 11:37 AM
No-one is trying to “obstruct the process.” It is perfectly legitimate, as issues arise and problems develop, to put the case for a change of direction. That is not the opposite of democracy. That is real democracy. What is fascistic is any attempt to silence people who disagree with our leaving the EU. By calling us fascists you are attacking our right to free speech.

So, no one should speak out strongly against those who voted to remain, but are trying to overturn a democratic vote . . .

From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 12 Oct 17 - 04:41 PM
. . . Remain voters in general would not have accepted all the bullshit we were peddled about foreigners taking our jobs and houses and cluttering up our public services, otherwise they wouldn't have voted remain. Many leave voters, on the other hand, would have swallowed those lies hook, line and sinker. Not all of them. I'm sure there were a few thinking leave voters. They weren't thinking straight, but let's cut them some slack and just say they were genuine but seriously misguided.

But anyone who voted to leave was either racist, or seriously misguided.

It's interesting to juxtapose two of Steve's posts to see just how one-sided he can be.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Oct 17 - 04:41 PM

"Were referendum voters to blame for the hate crimes..."

Referendum voters comprised 72% of the electorate. Referendum non-voters comprised 28% of the electorate. Remain voters in general would not have accepted all the bullshit we were peddled about foreigners taking our jobs and houses and cluttering up our public services, otherwise they wouldn't have voted remain. Many leave voters, on the other hand, would have swallowed those lies hook, line and sinker. Not all of them. I'm sure there were a few thinking leave voters. They weren't thinking straight, but let's cut them some slack and just say they were genuine but seriously misguided. Then there's the other 28%, who either didn't give a damn one way or the other, couldn't be arsed to vote, didn't vote because those bastard politicians are all the same anyway, or didn't know what the EU was supposed to be all about, or were opposed to referendums in principle, or simply couldn't decide. We can't speak for them. What we can say is that it's a good bet that most of the increase in hate crime came from anti-immigrant, anti-EU people, leavers in other words, and that all the rhetoric, lies and anti-immigrant hate speech we had to endure during the campaign must have had a big impact on them. If you have a better analysis (not a disingenuous one, please), then let's be having it.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Oct 17 - 04:24 PM

The rise in hate crime was to do with the way the brexit lobby demonised immigrants to engender anti-EU feelings. The referendum itself was a catastrophe and caused a lot of harm to a lot of people, culminating in the death of young mother.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 12 Oct 17 - 03:33 PM

"I don't think the British people have any real hatred towards immigrants....they just think that the EU rules enable too many to come here" (Akenaton)

You must have led a very, very sheltered life.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 12 Oct 17 - 02:46 PM

Is the hate crime at all relevant to a discussion about Brexit?

There a number of reasons it is relevant, but this is one that I don't remember us talking about. There are some supporters of Brexit - and if I read him rightly ake is an example - who say the Brexit process will be painful and in some ways we might be worse of than now, but in their judgement we will be better off in the longer term out than in. While I don't agree, that seems honest and straightforward.

There are others who cannot face there being any problem at all with Brexit at any stage: everything has to be an improvement, or at worst unrelated, the whole time. So an increase in hate crime? Can't have anything to do with Brexit. Lowering our credit rating, loss of value of the pound, OBR downgradings? Can't be Brexit....

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Stu
Date: 12 Oct 17 - 02:45 PM

"Is it not quite possible that there might have been more hate crime if the leavers had lost?"

Could you imagine the sense of victimhood, give how well developed it is already in Brexiteers?


"Were referendum voters to blame for the hate crimes"

Not all of them of course, some are very nice. Some are not though.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Oct 17 - 02:28 PM

Were referendum voters to blame for the hate crimes, or those who sanctioned the referendum which is parliament and every political party.
Is it not quite possible that there might have been more hate crime if the leavers had lost?

Is the hate crime at all relevant to a discussion about Brexit?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: peteglasgow
Date: 12 Oct 17 - 01:56 PM

i was off this site for a couple of years? coming back, lots of changes but little has changed on here. on what do i need to educate myself?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Oct 17 - 01:03 PM

I think you are the one who needs to educate yourself, where have you been for the last few months?

Pete "she seems a bit too tory-inclined for my liking but it had never occurred to me to consider what her religion might be. why would anyone care? "

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Stu
Date: 12 Oct 17 - 12:41 PM

"It is hard to see why the referendum should have caused any."

The referendum itself didn't. You xenophobic, homophobic right wing dullards and clagnut-quaffing goons and your leaders (Boris the liar) certainly did.

Anyway, looks like the whole thing might stall, the sooner the better. Then we can get on with things like 'science', 'trade' and 'culture'.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Oct 17 - 11:50 AM

I's not a "change of direction", it is the reversal of a democratic vote.   Get over it!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Oct 17 - 11:37 AM

No-one is trying to “obstruct the process.” It is perfectly legitimate, as issues arise and problems develop, to put the case for a change of direction. That is not the opposite of democracy. That is real democracy. What is fascistic is any attempt to silence people who disagree with our leaving the EU. By calling us fascists you are attacking our right to free speech. And I’m going to further exercise my right to free speech by not-so-respectfully asking Keith to bloody knock it off about Labour and antisemitism. It’s been quite nice without you this past week. We need you reviving that cancerous topic like we need a hole in the head. Please be told, will you?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: peteglasgow
Date: 12 Oct 17 - 11:14 AM

she seems a bit too tory-inclined for my liking but it had never occurred to me to consider what her religion might be. why would anyone care?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 12 Oct 17 - 11:04 AM

 only there did the BBC have to provide a bodyguard for their Political Editor, because she is a Jew.

It is appalling this happened, and it is true she had to have a bodyguard. But I am aware of no evidence that it was because she was a Jew.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Mr Red
Date: 12 Oct 17 - 11:00 AM

inspired by an erstwhile DJ and band manager recalling the hassles then. & I came across this problemo at work too.

Taking equipment across customs' borders 35 years ago, required a carnet to say it was tools of the trade coming back with you. not sales trying to dodge local taxes.

Businesses regularly trading will be up to speed eventually when the generation who never knew of such things get caught once or twice. Even then ask the Norwegians and Swedes about it, on-line registration doesn't stop the customs picking you out for a sample. But musicians? Beware - get the booking and the carnet together - from who? Dunno! Birmingham Chamber of Commerce gave us ours - for the second trip!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Oct 17 - 10:59 AM

I don't think the British people have any real hatred towards immigrants....they just think that the EU rules enable too many to come here.

If there is any hatred amongst the British people it is chiefly against Radical Islam by whom they are being attacked on a daily basis, by bombs, guns, knifes, even motor vehicles, but chiefly by vicious propaganda and adherence to an intolerant religion which demands death to all who deny it.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Oct 17 - 10:50 AM

Elizabeth Truss, Chief Secretary to the Treasury on BBC explaining why she is no longer a remainer,
"I made a judgement thinking that it would be bad for the economy. Since we have left, it’s been more positive, so the facts have changed so I have changed my mind. "

On same programme Health Sec. Hunt said he was wrong to worry about the British economy after Brexit.
He also said that the EU’s “disappointing” and “arrogant” behaviour since the referendum has turned him against the bloc.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Oct 17 - 10:36 AM

Stu,
Meanwhile Liar-in-Chief Boris is proving a real hazard;

A minister caught out in a lie has to resign.
Why not report him and get him sacked?
Why not give us an example of his lies?

Could you be arsed to look the figures up, you'd know that's not the case.

Could you?
Did he claim more than he was entitled to?
Do others claim less than they are entitled to?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Oct 17 - 10:31 AM

Hate is a terrible thing.
It is hard to see why the referendum should have caused any.
Hate was an issue in the party conferences this year, but only in one of them.
Anti-Semitism was only an issue in the Labour conference, and only there did the BBC have to provide a bodyguard for their Political Editor, because she is a Jew.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Oct 17 - 10:22 AM

Hate crime will continue to increase as long as we are divided politically. It exists on left and right, but only amongst the politically ignorant

This forum at present is a wonderful example of hypocrisy and ignorance and almost all of the hatred comes from so called leftists.
Perhaps it is the double whammy of our referendum result and the election of President Donal John which they cannot abide, but I as a lifelong democrat, in the true sense of the word, think their attitude exposes them as hypocrites.

Firstly there is the plan to overturn democracy by way of obstructing the process to remove ourselves from the EU.
Secondly there is the answer the US Election result by one of our prominent member "We must try to drive him out of his mind"

Both Fascist in concept. The hatred which has been heaped on Mr Farage and President Donal John beggars belief

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 12 Oct 17 - 08:33 AM


So the rise is not a purely Brexit phenomenon

Surely Dave was arguing it was a Brexit related rise, not that it was 'purely' due to Brexit.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 12 Oct 17 - 07:57 AM

Try again with the correct link:
No, an increase in hate crime of 41% is not acceptable.
Hate crime is unacceptable. Decrying the rate of the rise seems pointless, unless you are highlighting it as a factor brought on by Brexit. But then there was an 18% rise between 2013/24 & 2014/15 (pre brexit) Here

So the rise is not a purely Brexit phenomenon.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 12 Oct 17 - 07:30 AM

No, an increase in hate crime of 41% is not acceptable.
Hate crime is unacceptable. Decrying the rate of the rise seems pointless, unless you are highlighting it as a factor brought on by Brexit. But then there was an 18% rise between 2013/24 & 2014/15 (pre brexit) < ahref=http://www.report-it.org.uk/hate_crimes_reported_to_police_up_18_in_england>Here

So the rise is not a purely Brexit phenomenon.