Lyr Req: Green Grow the Rushes

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: NeedGreenGrowtheRushes,fullw/oCommen
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Apr 02 - 04:12 PM

?? Thread is 5139.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: NeedGreenGrowtheRushes,fullw/oCommen
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Apr 02 - 04:06 PM

Mistake on the last one, "Children, go where I send thee: Go Where

Subject: Lyr Add: THE TWELVE APOSTLES (trad. Ozarks)
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Apr 02 - 04:00 PM

Lyr.Add: THE TWELVE APOSTLES

"Come an' I will sing!"
"What will you sing?"
"I will sing of two."
"Two of the little white babes,
Dressed in the mournin' green.

"Come an' I will sing!"
"What will you sing?"
"I will sing of three."
"What of the three?"
"Three of them were strangers,
Two of the little white babes,
Dressed in the mournin' green.

(Verses continue in this form)
"Four of the gospel preachers,

"Five of the ferrymen in the boat,

"Six of the cheerful waiters,

"Seven of the seven stars in the sky,

"Eight of the eight archangels,

"Nine of the sunshines bright and fair,

"Ten of the ten commandments,

"'Leven of the saints that has gone to heaven,

"Twelve of the twelve apostles,

Isabel Spradley, Van Buren, Arkansas. From V. Randolph, 1982, Ozark Folksongs, ed. Norm Cohen, p. 426-429, with music.
The subjects and the last line of each verse differ from those of versions in the DT and Forum. There is no "one." I have no explanation for the "five ferrymen," "six cheerful waiters," or "nine of the sunshines."
See: Green-Rushes ; also Green grow ; and Go Where ; also commentary in DT.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: NeedGreenGrowtheRushes,fullw/oCommen
From: Penny S.
Date: 21 Jun 00 - 07:31 PM

I've put a link in 12 Days thread

Penny

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: NeedGreenGrowtheRushes,fullw/oCommen
From: IanC
Date: 19 Jun 00 - 11:53 AM

If you're looking for a bit of fun, try looking at "Red Fly The Banners O!". There is a version (with some variations) in DT which is somewhat different from the version I know (e.g. I sing 11 for the Moscow Dynamo).

There are a whole load of parodies of this song, sung for a whole lot of reasons.

Cheers!IanC

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: NeedGreenGrowtheRushes,fullw/oCommen
From: Grab
Date: 19 Jun 00 - 11:37 AM

DMRazler,

As Gargoyle's posting says, that line goes "three, three, the ri-i-i-ivals", so the "i" goes on for a while. Think of 12 days of Christmas for an example, where the lines for days 6-12 have the same tune but the lines for days 1-5 have different tunes.

Grab.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: NeedGreenGrowtheRushes,fullw/oCommen
From: GUEST,Jonathan Zimet
Date: 18 Jun 00 - 04:15 PM

I've been interested in learning about the history of "Green Grow" and studying the comparison to the Hebrew Passover song "Ehad Mi Yodea" ("Who knows one?"), and the associations for each number. On Dec 21, 1999, T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird), noted the parellel and stated some of the numbers of the Hebrew song. That part's easy for me (as that's my tradition). They go up to 13:

One is our God who is in heaven and earth; Two are the tables of the Law Three are the Fathers [Abraham, Isaac, Jacob] Four are the Mothers [Sarah, Rebekah, Leah, Rachel] Five are the 5 [books] of the Torah [Pentateuch]; Six are the orders [tractaces-- main subdivisions] of the Mishnah [the early part of the Talmud]; Seven are the days of the week Eight are the days [from birth to the covenental ceremony of] circumcision; Nine are the [lunar] months of childbirth; Ten are the Ten Commandments Eleven are the stars [meaning Joseph's dream that the stars -- his brothers-- would bow down to him. I.e., same as 12 tribes or sons, minus one-- creative!]; Twelve are the sons of Jacob [who became the 12 tribes]; Thirteen are the attributes [you'll find Moses being told of 13 qualities that God has, in Exodus chap. 34, 6-7. This list has entered Jewish liturgy in many places]. Look above for words and some thoughts on Green Grows, as well as comment by _gargoyle on 23-Dec-99 - 04:12 AM (above) about possible relationship between two. If anyone has more info on the origins of text of Green Grows, I'm interested.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: NeedGreenGrowtheRushes,fullw/oCommen
From: Penny S.
Date: 25 Dec 99 - 06:34 PM

I've always done it building up from one, repetitively, in the same way as 12 Days of Christmas, so the last singing is from 12 down to one is one....

Penny

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: NeedGreenGrowtheRushes,fullw/oCommen
From: _gargoyle
Date: 23 Dec 99 - 04:18 AM

THANX Okiemockbird

For the Jewish/Hebrew version - most interensting.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: NeedGreenGrowtheRushes,fullw/oCommen
From: _gargoyle
Date: 23 Dec 99 - 04:12 AM

According to the Music for Living - Book Six - Around the World the California State Series Pulbished by the California State Department of Education, Scaramento, 1958 p.210-211 (a book series discussed in an unrealated thread last week, still looking for book three)

"This ancient folk song is probably from the Hebrew." "The words of this song are symbolic; the meaning of these symbols has been corrupted over long years of use. In general, "One" was meant to be God Almighty, "Two", Christ and John the Baptist. "ThreeT is the Holy Trinity, "Four" is the four disciples of Christ - Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John. "Five" is the five pointed star used in olden times to keep away evil spirits. "Six" is for the corruption of waters, a reference to the water-pots in the miracle of changin water to wine. "Seven" is the stars of the Great Bear, "Eight" refers to Gabriel and archangels, "Nine" to the nine muses, "Ten" to the Commandments, "Eleven' is for Judas Iscariot and "Twelve" sums up the twelve apostles"

The significance of the pentagram/star to ward off evil is found in the stigmata based this link to a course at Dartmouth University:Number Symbolism in the Middle Ages

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: NeedGreenGrowtheRushes,fullw/oCommen
From: Noah Zacharin
Date: 22 Dec 99 - 11:44 AM

i don't know anything about the words, the origins, etc. all i know about it is that as soon as i read the thread title, the haunting sound of the song went through my head, and i tried to remember where i heard it. dougie maclean's excellent version of this song will blow the top off your cranium.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: NeedGreenGrowtheRushes,fullw/oCommen
From: MMario
Date: 22 Dec 99 - 11:36 AM

I've heard green grow the rushes done BOTH ways. Like a lot of things, it seems which is "correct" depends on what you learned first.

The starting with all twelve and going down makes sense in this instance since that would end it with "One is one and all alone and evermore shall be so" as the last line, and it being the only number in that verse....

which is probably why some people sing it that way.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: NeedGreenGrowtheRushes,fullw/oCommen
From: T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird)
Date: 22 Dec 99 - 10:53 AM

I suppose the "lily-white boys" are not human at all, but instead are arum lilies.

The "Seven stars" are presumably either the Pleiades or the Big Dipper.

The "April rainers" I think are the Hyades.

The "Symbols/Cymbals at your door" can either be a pentagram or a doorbell.

A Jewish counting-song, popular at the Feast of Unleavend Bread at least in the Russian/German/Lithuanian Jewish tradition, has

One is our God
Two are the tables of the Law
Three are the Fathers [Abraham, Isaac, Jacob]
Four are the Mothers [Sarah, Rebekah, Leah, Rachel]
Five are the orders of the Mishnah
Six are the ?
Seven are the days of the week
Eight are the ?
Nine are the [lunar] months of childbirth
Ten are the Ten Commandments
Eleven are the ?
Twelve are the sons of Israel.

I'm sure someone on-list can supply the ones I've forgotten.

T.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: NeedGreenGrowtheRushes,fullw/oCommen
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 22 Dec 99 - 05:43 AM

JTT - Gargoyle has it right, it starts at one & goes up to the 12 - adding one each time to the list.

It seems 'right' to me that only the lowest two have a couplet, when you get down to the 3-2-1 bit its more elaborate because you've arrived (well it makes sense to me). In the same way, the lowest few numbers of 12 days of christmas are more elaborate. If you imagine an informal bunch of people singing these songs they will tend to take more effort to remember the higher numbers (because less repetition=less sure memory) & will then sing the lower few with great gusto & relief at having got there. Imagine having to remember 12 couplets!!!!!!! I'd never get through it.

The two lilly-white boys seem a bit pagan to me - dressed in green & all.

Kris

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: NeedGreenGrowtheRushes,fullw/oCommen
From: _gargoyle
Date: 22 Dec 99 - 03:33 AM

The five bright shiners is an easy one...

It represents the five stigmata of Jesus Christ's...2feet,2hand, spear-thrust in the side.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: NeedGreenGrowtheRushes,fullw/oCommen
From: JTT
Date: 19 Dec 99 - 04:36 PM

Seven for the seven stars in the *heavens*

But the song goes the other way around; it starts "I'll sing you twelve-o, green grow the rushes-o; what are your twelve-o? Twelve for the twelve apostles, eleven for the eleven that went up to heaven, ten for the ten commandments..." and so on, down to "one is one and all alone, and ever more shall be so".

I understand the twelve apostles, the eleven (minus Judas Iscariot) who went up to heaven, the ten commandments, the four gospels, the three rivals (father son and holy ghost), but who are the lily-white boys, the five bright shiners etc?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: NeedGreenGrowtheRushes,fullw/oCommen
From: _gargoyle
Date: 19 Dec 99 - 03:07 PM

It is virtually a "One Chord" Call, so it harmonizes easily.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: NeedGreenGrowtheRushes,fullw/oCommen
From: Barbara
Date: 19 Dec 99 - 01:20 PM

I've found it done both as a call and response, and as a song where everyone sings all lines.
One of the other complicating factors of the song is that the tune for the first three "questions" is different, but beginning with four, the tune repeats. However, most people I have heard, sing the rest of the song with two alternating phrases, one that moves, and one that stays on the tonic note. AND they alternate those, always starting the phrase that moves. This means one time the tune for -- say -- five bright shiners -- will be the single note, and the next time down it will be the one that moves.
Is that clear?
Blessings,
Barbara

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: NeedGreenGrowtheRushes,fullw/oCommen
From:
Date: 19 Dec 99 - 09:43 AM

Thanks to everyone for the info. it just *seems* like the lyrics should include something like (hypothetical invented lines ONLY)

Three, three, the rivals O,/ And never happy all-O Four for the Gospel Makers,/ It's heavan where they be-O

etc.

A certain symatry would be added, where on the FIRST listing of a new number:

I'll sing you n-O Green grow the rushes-O What is your your n-O N for the (n'th bunch here),/and that is what they are-O n-1 n-2 n-3 n-4... One is one and all alone and evermore shall be-O

More commonm of the counting/memory songs

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: NeedGreenGrowtheRushes,fullw/oCommen
From: _gargoyle
Date: 18 Dec 99 - 06:47 PM

The addition of the triplet "I'll sing you" before the Two Chorus, is the version I'm familar with.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: NeedGreenGrowtheRushes,fullw/oCommen
From: _gargoyle
Date: 18 Dec 99 - 06:34 PM

Thank you for your persistance. EXCELLENT question!!!

I now "see" the problem. You REALLY don't KNOW the song. The DT version makes a BIG assumption that the person using the posting has some sort of familiarity with the song. It is a "Question and Answer Song" the leader then the chorus replies then together Here it is:

I'll sing you one, O
Green grow the rushes, O ..What is your one, O?

One is one and all alone and evermore shall be it so.

I'll sing you two, O
Green grow the rushes, O ...What is your two, O?
Two, two, the lily-white boys, clothed all in all their green, O
One is one and all alone and evermore shall be so.

I'll sing you three, O
Green grown the rushes, O...What is your three O?
Three, three, the ri..i..vals
I'll sing you, Two, two, the lily-white boys, clothed all in all their green, O
One is one and all alone and evermore shall be it so.

I'll sing you four, O
Green grow the rushes, O...What is your four, O?
Four for the gospel makers
Three, three, the ri..i..vals
I'll sing you, Two, two, the lily-white boys, clothed all in all their green, O
One is one and all alone and evermore shall be it so.

I'll sing you five, O
Green grow the rushes, O ...What is your five, O?
Five for the symbols at your door
Four for the gospel makers
Three, three, the ri..i..vals
I'll sing you, Two, two, the lily-white boys, clothed all in all their green, O
One is one and all alone and evermore shall be it so.

And so on

Six for the six proud walkers

Seven for the seven stars in the sky

Eight for the April rainers

Nine for the nine bright shiners

Ten for the Ten Commandments

Eleven for the eleven who went to heaven

Twelve for the twelve Apostles

Subject: Lyr Add: GREEN GROW THE RUSHES, O
From: Jeri
Date: 18 Dec 99 - 06:01 PM

I'll sing you one, O
Green grow the rushes, O
What is your ___, O
One is one and all alone and evermore shall be so.

The part in bold repeats for every verse. You add on each number, as in The Twelve Days of Christmas. To get you started, I'll type in a couple more verses exactly as we sing them.

I'll sing you two, O Green grow the rushes, O
What is your two, O
Two, two, lily-white boys, clothed all in green, O
One is one and all alone and evermore shall be so.

I'll sing you three, O
Green grow the rushes, O
What is your three, O
Three, three, the rivals
Two, two, lily-white boys, clothed all in green, O
One is one and all alone and evermore shall be so.

I'll sing you four, O
Green grow the rushes, O
What is your four, O
Four for the gospel makers
Three, three, the rivals
Two, two, lily-white boys, clothed all in green, O
One is one and all alone and evermore shall be so.

...and the rest continues in the same pattern. I hope this helps. If it doesn't, please let me know.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: NeedGreenGrowtheRushes,fullw/oCommen
From:
Date: 18 Dec 99 - 05:08 PM

The parallels I saw with The Eleven (thanks for the reason why) An eight-"sided" constellation Same, under enough acid, for seven Six are the six proud walkers in both cases Five symbol writers vs. five symbols Four men with a mission vs. four men with a Mission Three girls waiting could certainly be rivals

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: NeedGreenGrowtheRushes,fullw/oCommen
From:
Date: 18 Dec 99 - 05:04 PM

The *problem* I have is the tune and the fact that:

One is one and all alone/And ever will that be-o Two, Two the Lilly-white boys/clothed all in green-ho Three, three the rivals/AND WHERE'S THE NEXT LINE-O? Same for 4-12 It seems to me there *should* be a pair of lines for each number.

But I could be wrong....

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: NeedGreenGrowtheRushes,fullw/oCommen
From: T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird)
Date: 18 Dec 99 - 10:38 AM

Some versions of the song are called "The Ten Commandments". T.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: NeedGreenGrowtheRushes,fullw/oCommen
From: Jeri
Date: 18 Dec 99 - 09:26 AM

The lyrics to Green Grow The Rushes are here. (Just in case you haven't found them already.)
Here is For The Victory At Agincourt

Subject: Lyr Add: THE ELEVEN (Robert Hunter, Jerry Garcia)
From: _gargoyle
Date: 18 Dec 99 - 03:11 AM

"The Eleven"
Words by Robert Hunter
music by Jerry Garcia
On Live Dead Album
Ice Nine Publishing copyright 1968

No more time to tell how
This is the season of what
Now is the time of returning
With thought jewels polished and gleaming

Now is the time past believing
The child has relinquished the reign
Now is the test of the boomerang
Tossed in the night of redeeming

Eight sided whispering hallelujah hatrack
Seven faced marble eye transitory dream doll
six proud walkers on jinglebell rainbow
Five men writing in fingers of gold
Four men tracking down the great white sperm whale
Three girls wait in a foreign dominion
Ride in the whale belly
Fade away in moonlight
Sink beneath the waters
to the coral sand below
Now is the time of returning

Its name is derived from the unusual meter of 11 beats to a measure.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: NeedGreenGrowtheRushes,fullw/oCommen
From: _gargoyle
Date: 18 Dec 99 - 02:51 AM

put

green grow the rushes

in the box on the upper right of the this page and press "go"

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: NeedGreenGrowtheRushes,fullw/oCommen
From: _gargoyle
Date: 18 Dec 99 - 02:48 AM

Its there in the DT along with a midi

Subject: NeedGreenGrowtheRushes,fullw/oCommentary
From:
Date: 18 Dec 99 - 02:25 AM

OK, Mudcat's got the commentary but not the full lyrics One is one and all alone is given but not followup And ever it will be-oh

Gives the followup line for the lilly-white boys

But that's it - need 3-12

Also suggest linking or Reference to Robert Hunter's The Eleven.

(also looking for the Agencourt Carol)

dmr