BS: Charlottesville

Subject: BS: Charlottesville
From: Mrrzy
Date: 13 Oct 17 - 09:25 AM

Schools were locked down yesterday due to racial bigots calling for a Las Vegas-style school shooting.

They marched with torches again last week.

I actually live here, as detailed under the interestingi-times thread.

For many of my friends overseas, the horrors of August were the first time they heard of where I live.

For many of my foreign friends here, it was the first time their families heard of where we live. (Two French people report the identical story from their vacation home, someone coming to them and saying Hey, your town is declaring an emergency, and they both said, oh, must be a hurricane.)

So my question is, how many of you had not heard of Charlottesville till now, and where are you?

But more importantly, is it being made clear that these ignorant asswipes are *from out of town* (35 states, in fact, for August)? They brought them in by bus for the last one. The school threats were made over the Internet.

And last, what do you think of it all?

Subject: RE: BS: Charlottesville
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 13 Oct 17 - 10:43 AM

I'd like to be able to say "only in America", but unfortunately the idea of 'bussing in' supporters/troublemakers is now widespread.

Keep safe!

Cheers
Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: Charlottesville
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 Oct 17 - 11:18 AM

I guess I first learned of Charlottesville from Wisconsinite John McCutcheon, who lived in Charlottesville for a long time until just recently. His description made it sound like some kind of liberal paradise, but I suppose it's more diverse than that.

Because the Skyline Drive was fogged in, I visited Charlottesville a few years back to see the University of Virginia and Monticello, creations of Thomas Jefferson. Wish I had remembered that Mrrzy lived there, so I could have checked another name off my list of Mudcatters I Want to Meet. I missed another Mudcatter in Orkney the same way.

But we'll meet someday, Mrr.
Cheers!
-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Charlottesville
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Oct 17 - 11:23 AM

A relative-by-marriage teaches at some fly-by-night university there, and I’ve even been there.

Subject: RE: BS: Charlottesville
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 Oct 17 - 03:14 PM

See? Joe Offer and Rapparee have both visited Charlottesville! What more do you need?
It IS a very nice city in a very nice area.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Charlottesville
From: Mrrzy
Date: 13 Oct 17 - 03:49 PM

Joe, sorry to have missed you! Rapparee, what fly-by-night U? I need another adjunct job.

Subject: RE: BS: Charlottesville
From: keberoxu
Date: 13 Oct 17 - 04:49 PM

I associate Charlottesville with John Milton Fogg.

Although the closest I got to "network marketing" was buying product as part of a marketer's downline (still do), and I never went after a business,
I did sit down and read a bunch of the books.
Network Marketing went through a boom/bust period in the US.
Fogg, as an author and public speaker, was part of both boom and bust.
He is still living near Charlottesville.
He raised his first family there, I believe;
and he is now raising a second family near there.

His is a cautionary tale ... not mine to tell, though.

Subject: RE: BS: Charlottesville
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Oct 17 - 04:37 AM

While Mrrzy asked who only knew of Charlottesville from the fascist mob attack, only those who knew the town by other factors have responded, including me. It was the destination for a family trip 10 years ago. My wife was the historical expert of the town from Civil War times.

The recent goon attack is too convenient for Bannon and associates not to have had a hand in it.

Subject: RE: BS: Charlottesville
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 Oct 17 - 11:42 AM

Yeah, I should have titled the thread, What do you EU wanks think of Charlottesville? Or something more provocative. I am really interested. I know that all of us that know the place were appalled.

Subject: RE: BS: Charlottesville
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Oct 17 - 11:57 AM

MOST IMPORTANTLY
Schools were locked down yesterday due to racial bigots calling for a Las Vegas-style school shooting.

THIS was not on any news service I would normally come across or on TV
I'm just saying it wasn't loud enough for me to hear about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Charlottesville
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 Oct 17 - 01:30 PM

I think it was national news... I heard about it on NPR.

Subject: RE: BS: Charlottesville
From: leeneia
Date: 14 Oct 17 - 02:37 PM

No, I had never unconflated Charlotte, NC and Charlottesville VA. Sorry about that.

I'm like the people back east who conflate Milwaukee and Minneapolis.

As for what do I think of these events, I say treat the miscreants like what they are - low IQ cowardly pond scum. But mix it with pity.

Subject: RE: BS: Charlottesville
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Oct 17 - 06:31 PM

But mix it with pity.

Save your pity for their victims; past, present & future.

Subject: RE: BS: Charlottesville
From: Mrrzy
Date: 15 Oct 17 - 07:34 AM

And Charleston, I used to mix Charleston in with Charlotte and Charlottesville.
I pity the ignorance.

Subject: RE: BS: Charlottesville
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Oct 17 - 08:37 AM

As they used to call demonstrators behind Martin Luther King "They're a bunch of outside agitators". The tables have turned.

Subject: RE: BS: Charlottesville
From: wysiwyg
Date: 15 Oct 17 - 06:31 PM

The tables have turned.

Don, I think I know your heart well enough to know that you didn't mean to draw a false equivalence; but with US Systemic Racism that table can't actually turn. Yet.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Charlottesville
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Oct 17 - 07:15 PM

Susan you are 100% correct. All this retroactive activism, some which predates my birth, feels like defeat. It reminds me of our defeat by asassinations of JFK,MLK,RFK. It reminds me of the defeat of common sense in Viet Nam. It reminds me of the defeat of common sense by petty autocrats in every crevice and stair step of society who are just petulant control bullies.

We are not defeated but it feels that way as civility, dialog, truth and the better good slips away. Destabilizing the USA using its own racist institutions, shared hatred and shared defeats is the cruelist cut of all by Russia. It is a worse sin against humanity than the 15 tons of small pox virus the USSR made to send against the US after a nuclear exchange, to be doubly sure we as a diverse people are vanquished.

Subject: RE: BS: Charlottesville
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Oct 17 - 09:27 AM

With all the generations since the 60's this feeling of defeat of the middle class and unions and mental health and the rise of super capitalism, it is no wonder Trump inspired hope for many that maybe we could stop losing ground, homes and jobs for average Americans.

But manipulated racism snuffed the flame of hope and reversed 50 years of progress as evidenced in Charlottesville and accross the country

Subject: RE: BS: Charlottesville
From: Mrrzy
Date: 16 Oct 17 - 09:43 AM

I thought I had posted about "outside agitators." Is it being made clear in the European coverage that these terrorists are being bussed in from out of town, that they aren't us, they are just using our town?

Subject: RE: BS: Charlottesville
From: wysiwyg
Date: 16 Oct 17 - 11:33 AM

Don, take heart. None of the trumpian bullshit has tarnished relationships among those who had already made their stance evident enough to achieve real, belly to belly friendship. In my iife, I need only look to who is seeking me out and who they expect ME to seek out. We european-heriteage ppl are finally reaching towards each other, and welcoming the discomfort of talking about race. It's taking too long but it has to take the time it needs to take.

It's painful to see the costs to my friends of the global majority (more painful to them), while "we" grapple with helping restore power where it belonged all the while. Processing that pain gets lost too often in activist orgs, but I'm fortunate to ALSO be anchored in an org specifically focused on helping each other NOT stay numb. So that we can think as creatively as we are designed to do.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Charlottesville
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Oct 17 - 03:22 PM

Well put.
on a different note; With the 1 in 5 opioid epidemic the country (and Trump States in particular) have become comfortably numb.
In literature they called the drug soma. Today it is a reality we call Oxycodone.

Now I go out of my way to enhance racial friendship and peace.
After all, I was one of those kids at the Lincoln Memorial for King's I have a dream, speech.

Pain is good up to the point of informing us something is wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Charlottesville
From: wysiwyg
Date: 16 Oct 17 - 08:15 PM

Yep.

I've developed a nasty little theory, Donuel. In the philosophy I practice, we talk about the personal confusion pattern that has to be installed upon young children to get them to stay quiet in the face of injustice, during their school years. This internalized confusion is said to be least among the poor and at its greatest among the owning class, with blue collar and white collar levels of confusion in between.

So... when I was recovering from a surgery, I had to take what is probably the mildest opiod-- Tramadol. For a short time but long enough tp build tolerance... Touted as non-addictive!!!... but now it's as tightly monitored (for ppl but not yet for dogs) as Oxycontin, etc.

I noticed that on one Tramadol (or benadryl), I can be as unclear and placid as a blue collar worker. Two = middle class, etc.

In actual practice (the nasty part of the theory), if I have to be locked up with a majority-group of middle class nicey nicey folks who dither well meaningly but can never act-- I can enjoy them and not upset them IF I've also had to take 2 trammies for my bum knee or back. (Slippery slope eh!)

So of course now, I can't do that, because Oxy awaits down that road, and beings as I was raised poor, sense stops me.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Charlottesville
From: frogprince
Date: 16 Oct 17 - 08:22 PM

As of this evening, I believe I can fully feel for the decent people of Charlottesville. Our great nephew just shared a facebook post, with his "like", from Amerika.org. I read the article, if only to know I wouldn't be "going off half-cocked" in response at him. It was the most that I've actually read directly from American "alt-right" material, although I've read similar enough trash with other labels before. I had made it this far, most of my life, without seeing any family member, or anyone I really considered a friend, adhere to anything nearly this reprehensible. I'm tearing up every little while. He's family. Right now I don't know that I ever want to see his face again.

Subject: RE: BS: Charlottesville
From: robomatic
Date: 16 Oct 17 - 11:16 PM

I'm tired of the identity politics being played on the right and the left. Those poorly dressed motheaten whities who gathered around some statues are nowhere near real 'narzies' as Winston Churchill used to call 'em. For even a whiff of the real thing have a look at "In the Garden of Beasts" book by Erik Larson.
I've not seen much to admire from the other side either. Million dollar football players kneeling during some music doesn't stop one cop black or white from shooting one carstopped civilian white or black.
Or nutjobs who think that among the 300 million guns owned in this country (half of them owned by under 3% the population) has enough 'good guys' to balance out the 'bad guys'.

You want real nazis. Check out ISIS/ DA'ESH. Those boys don't mess around. They'll Charlottize your ass.

Subject: RE: BS: Charlottesville
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Oct 17 - 09:22 AM

nowhere near real 'narzies'

A bit Naive, Robo. Just give 'em a chance & they'll "improve" before you kmnow it.

Reuters, Tuesday 17 October 2017

The Florida governor, Rick Scott, has declared a state of emergency ahead of a speech by white nationalist leader Richard Spencer on Thursday in Gainesville at the University of Florida, in order to free up resources to prepare for possible violence.

Subject: RE: BS: Charlottesville
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Oct 17 - 09:58 AM

Gulp, I agree with robo. The demonstration of kneeling pales white in comparison to the non violent demonstrations of Ghandi and MLK that were met with shootings and beatings.

Also the neo Nazis although embolden by the administration are in a larval stage of being pre brown shirts [SA]Nazi supporters like before Hitler came to power.

If there is a time they are most vulnerable, it is now.

That being said, words are cheap and action speaks louder.

We know ignoring this, is at our own peril.

NEVER FORGET the US gun militias hide behind a curtain of patriotic credos and out number the brown shirts of Germany. Explore them from the inside out and you will find they are halfway to becoming mobilized by Bannon like figures.

If people wait and see, they will.

Subject: RE: BS: Charlottesville
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Oct 17 - 09:58 AM

Well said Robo.

Subject: RE: BS: Charlottesville
From: Mrrzy
Date: 17 Oct 17 - 01:10 PM

Hee hee "pales in comparison" hee hee oops serious thread. Sorry.

But can y'all answer my question about coverage specifying the Charlottesville terrorists came from out of town?

Subject: RE: BS: Charlottesville
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Oct 17 - 01:13 PM

'pales white in comparison'
intentional

Subject: RE: BS: Charlottesville
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Oct 17 - 04:45 PM

...football players kneeling during some music doesn't stop one cop black or white from shooting one carstopped civilian white or black.

So taking a public stance against institutionalized racism is a bad thing?

Subject: RE: BS: Charlottesville
From: robomatic
Date: 17 Oct 17 - 07:40 PM

I don't think it is clearly perceived as such, rather a petulant and ineffective symbolic insult at a unifying anthem for a nation that is openly dealing with these issues every day.
It is more expressive of identity politics which is divisive. America as a victim of these actions, not a perpetrator of them.

Subject: RE: BS: Charlottesville
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Oct 17 - 08:09 PM

I don't think it is clearly perceived as such, rather a petulant and ineffective symbolic insult at a unifying anthem...

It is so perceived by Trumpists and their apopogists of the "half-baked, spurious nationalism cooked up by people who would rather find scapegoats than solve problems" type (vide McCain speech)- not by anypne who has been paying attention to what is and has been actually going on.

Subject: RE: BS: Charlottesville
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Oct 17 - 08:12 PM

So robomatic you dismiss the very public gestures that are being made by individuals who have chosen to use their bully pulpit, hoping not to get fired in the process? Let's see what you're doing instead that has generated the conversation, that just MIGHT get through to a few people that enough is enough. Seems to me you're not offering anything helpful, just whining.

Subject: RE: BS: Charlottesville
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Oct 17 - 09:20 PM

I was speaking with a very intelligent person about the NFL kerfuffle.
He said "I don't want politics in my football".
I said "Fair enough but realize that the moment the fans have to pledge allegiance to the flag and behave a certain way as music plays, and on top of that the NFL is paying the military over a million bucks a year to have fighter jets fly over the stadium with color guards and such...that's when your football first got politicized."

He said "Well they (black players) should do it on their own time ".
I said "Do they delay the game, do you have to look, can you even see them clearly?".

"I just don't want politics in my football".
I agree with you, I think Trump should not have put petulant political fights in football along with his personal feud with the NFL.

Subject: RE: BS: Charlottesville
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Oct 17 - 09:33 PM

Identity Politics

Its a quaint term robomatic but its not entirely what's going on.

Yes we have different media cater to each fringe.
So what really makes politics and elections so fringey?
It is NOT Identity politics.

It is the closed primary SYSTEM. In that method only the strongest fringe wins in each Rep or Dem primary.
If we had open primaries the whole and the center gets mixed enough by both sides so we do not end up with only extremist candidates.
We could have more Democracy and less partisanship this way.

Subject: RE: BS: Charlottesville
From: robomatic
Date: 17 Oct 17 - 10:33 PM

Acme:
That's the point I'm making about THEM (not YOU, that would be an ad hominem remark, kinda like you're doing).

Subject: RE: BS: Charlottesville
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 08:02 AM

Who is "them"? The Trumpistas, I presume?

Subject: RE: BS: Charlottesville
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 11:48 AM

From: Donuel - PM
Date: 16 Oct 17 - 03:22 PM
on a different note; With the 1 in 5 opioid epidemic the country (and Trump States in particular) have become comfortably numb.
In literature they called the drug soma. Today it is a reality we call Oxycodone.

While Oxycodone is an opioid, I'm unsure of you claim for Soma.
Some details here: Soma

My only real knowledge of Soma comes from the J Greenleaf Whittier poem: "On the brewing of Soma", which is best known for its final verses starting: "Dear Lord and Father of mankind"

Subject: RE: BS: Charlottesville
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 11:58 AM

This the soma I refer to in literature
https://www.huxley.net/soma/somaquote.html

There are dozens of soma names including real drugs that cut off the mid brain from the frontal cortex

Subject: RE: BS: Charlottesville
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 12:20 PM

The feelings of soma as described are the same as that of opioids.

The soma level of intoxication called lunar eternity would be the comparable level of a fatal overdose of opioids due to suppression of breathing.

True to the book 1984 our opioids were legislated by government in bill HR 4069 to be beyond the reach of the DEA or other regulations.

While opioids act like soma is described it is not defect free since it kills more people than cars and guns combined.

Subject: RE: BS: Charlottesville
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 12:26 PM

The literature link doesn't identify Soma with an opioid, and this link only describes Huxley's Soma as resembling an opiate.

Subject: RE: BS: Charlottesville
From: Mrrzy
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 02:10 PM

They are heading to Florida next. Wonder if anybody will die, and whether that will change things.

Subject: RE: BS: Charlottesville
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 03:08 PM

Ultimately Nigel "I" am identifying soma with opioids. I only supplied you with a link to identify what "I" was comparing. Excellent prophesy by Huxley don't you think? There was a Congressman who was a doctor 13 years ago who seriously suggested a drug to suppress 'political anxiety'. But that is as far as I go without investigation.

Florida has more important things to do unless the Nazis march on Miami and Jewish nursing homes. A survivor with a number tattoo would stop the march like a lone person in Tiananmen Square stopping tanks.
Survivors I know are tough cookies for being in their late eighties and up.
Only the surviving camp kids who got a tattoo are left.

Subject: RE: BS: Charlottesville
From: keberoxu
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 10:34 PM

Sorry?
Who is heading to Florida?

Just keep them away from Phoenix until after my return flight gets me back home.

Subject: RE: BS: Charlottesville
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 Oct 17 - 09:29 AM

Whitey and his goons are heading to Florida. The governor has declared a state of emergency ahead of it.
A survivor with a number tattoo will be assaulted. It was antifa that protected the synagogue here.

Subject: RE: BS: Charlottesville
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Oct 17 - 10:01 AM

Who is heading to Florida?


Nazi scum, that's who.

Subject: RE: BS: Charlottesville
From: gillymor
Date: 19 Oct 17 - 11:39 AM

Us Florida taxpayers will foot the bill for the large security contingent required outside the event. Three words for this racist shitbird:

Tar, Feathers, Rail

Subject: RE: BS: Charlottesville
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Oct 17 - 08:29 AM

Ignoring the scum worked well.

*what's good for America is bad for Putin and Trump*

Subject: RE: BS: Charlottesville
From: gillymor
Date: 21 Oct 17 - 09:31 AM

The fruit of Spencer's hate speech,

From the Miami Herald

Subject: RE: BS: Charlottesville
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Oct 17 - 10:29 AM

Now, now Gilly- do remember that you're talking about "some very fine" murderers.