BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land

Subject: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Raggytash
Date: 09 Nov 17 - 07:54 AM

Green & Pleasant

I know we live in a beautiful country but was a little surprised at this survey.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Stu
Date: 09 Nov 17 - 12:08 PM

Good stuff, and I was surprised too. Feel a tiny bit happier now. 🌳

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Nov 17 - 01:26 PM

The use of the word "natural" in the study is ill-advised. The only truly natural vegetation in this country is found on some mountains above 3000 feet, some sea and mountain cliffs (ungrazed by sheep) and a very few relict patches of natural woodland, for example, at Wistman's Wood and Black Tor Copse on Dartmoor and Dizzard Wood on the cliffs a couple of miles from my house. Those are the ones I know because they're near me. One or two scraps of ashwood on limestone pavement come to mind - there's one at Colt Park Wood near Ribblehead. There's also Rassal ashwood in Wester Ross. Almost all moorland and uncultivated grasslands, woodland such as Epping Forest and all inland heathland, is at best semi-natural. None the worse for that, and I too was pleasantly surprised by the results of the survey. Next step is to stop farmers from using neonicotinoids. Come on, Gove, you can do it!

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Nov 17 - 01:27 PM

While that is indeed good to read, it underplays another important factor. I have always lived in very built up areas, but in every case you could get to a large scale green area by travelling just a few miles. For example, I was born in Middlesbrough which is about as urban as you could get outside London, but Eston Hills, Roseberry Topping, the moors and the dales are not far away at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Stu
Date: 09 Nov 17 - 02:15 PM

It's Great Britain and Northern Ireland rather than just England too.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Raggytash
Date: 09 Nov 17 - 02:23 PM

Quite correct Stu, but I live in England, not Britain.










Apart from when I live in Ireland.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Mrrzy
Date: 09 Nov 17 - 02:41 PM

Why only mad dogs and Englishmen, anyway?

Also, if you live in England, don't you also live in Britain, even though if you live in Britain you do not necessarily live in England?

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 09 Nov 17 - 03:10 PM

Is it inhabited by people who pluck the feathers from pheasants?

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Raggytash
Date: 09 Nov 17 - 03:11 PM

I've never considered myself as British.

I was born in England, it says so on my Birth Certificate.

People born in Wales quite rightly consider themselves Welsh. People born in Scotland quite rightly consider themselves Scottish.

Good luck to them all.

I was born in England and I am English.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Raedwulf
Date: 09 Nov 17 - 04:44 PM

Yer, but yer a bleedin' Norvener, aint'cha, Raggy? Only 'arf Hinglish! ;-)

As Steve nearly says, there is very little "natural" in England or, indeed, in Britain. For better or worse, the landscape has been altered and / or 'managed' by us for more than a thousand years. There's very little 'ancient' left, the marks of human hands are all over. The landscape is still more rural than urban. There's still a lot of wilderness. But neither of those words are synonyms for 'natural'. If you see what I mean!

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Mr Red
Date: 11 Nov 17 - 03:16 AM

If you take gardens & parks as green - then the figures look good.

But the trend is to build on low lying land, good for agriculture. Leaving the hills to livestock. And arable is diminishing faster.

We are a net importer of food. Were before WW2. A factor that will become clearer when the current political farrago reveals more of its unintended (ha!) consequences.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Raedwulf
Date: 11 Nov 17 - 05:54 PM

Do you have evidence for your claim of 'trend', Red? Forgive me if I am suspicious. Prime agricultural land is going for upwards of ?15K / acre these days. Which is not a lot if you can stick twenty shoeboxes on an acre, I grant you.

However, you have to apply for planning permission. And, I believe, not only is there a general category of 'use of land', there is also a reluctance to allow that use to change. It's not as simple as buying an acre of farmland & applying for planning permission for a house. The change of use of the land has to be approved from agricultural to residential. As far as I am aware, councils are rather reluctant to change the usage of agricultural land. You're right about net importer, though. In fact, we were a net importer before WWI never mind Mk II!

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 12 Nov 17 - 01:33 PM

From: Mr Red - PM
Date: 11 Nov 17 - 03:16 AM
We are a net importer of food. Were before WW2. A factor that will become clearer when the current political farrago reveals more of its unintended (ha!) consequences.
I guess you're referring to Brexit, but what difference do you honestly think it will make. We may be a net importer of food, but not necessarily from the EU.
A quick check online will show that the EU (not just UK) relies heavily on the import of food to meet its demands. Here

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Nov 17 - 01:55 PM

I was born in England
wasn't that a song by Elton John?

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Iains
Date: 12 Nov 17 - 05:05 PM

One of the major failings of the EU is the inability to rein in the CAP monster. Throughout the EU the food market is subjected to distortion.
https://www.economicshelp.org/europe/disadvantages-cap/
It is not just the UK dependent on food imports within the EU.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Nov 17 - 06:01 PM

https://www.allposters.com/-sp/I-come-from-the-haunts-of-coot-and-hern-New-Yorker-Cartoon-Posters_i9172635_.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Mr Red
Date: 14 Nov 17 - 04:33 AM

Do you have evidence for your claim of 'trend',

now, let me see. The sizeable apple orchard scrubbed out 5 years ago in the hope of planning permission. Sits, not a 1/4 mile from me, already sold to the milk processing plant 300 yds further. Horses dispossessed.

5 minute walk the other direction Horsemarling Farm** now morphing into Standish Gate home to 10/15 houses though they don't call them that any more they are dwellings. 1 years ago it grazed horses and had extensive fields for cows. Adjacent to that is Arrowsmith drive, 15 years ago it was also a far bigger area of farm fields. And Grove Farm** 4/5 sizeable houses in what was the FarmYard behind the Farmhouse. 7 minutes.

Then there is Fox's Field** - 5 years ago that was an arable field + rushed archeological dig to get it ready to put 30 houses (and just 40 parking places on). 10 minutes.

Then there is the fields lain fallow for about 3 years while they re-submitted plans for gawd knows how many houses near Chipmans Platt (building now), a mere mile from me. And Dale Vince has been re-submitting plans on the other diagonal to build his football stadium stadium and commercial units in green fields - note the proximity to M5 J13.

And we are about to have a referendum in Stonehouse on the "Town Plan" - they will add 1000 houses to a town of 3500. And there ain't no industrial land to re-claim round here - PAL.

Stroud is 10 minute drive and here** they flattened a house and green garden to lay tarmac & concrete for 10 houses. Then there is the badger sets** they tried to uproot and in the centre of town, they built 20 5 bedroom houses - not yer artisan walk to the bus starter homes.

Slad valley, home of Laurie Lee, has fought endlessly to stop houses being built there. The fight continues, as it does Rodbourough fields.

** too recent to be included on maps, even Goggle maps. Quite literally concrete evidence, I see the lorries delivering it!

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Mr Red
Date: 14 Nov 17 - 04:59 AM

I lied - new homes - 1,350 - and here is the map - quite an area of agricultural land - you could see maize from the A419 this year.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Raedwulf
Date: 14 Nov 17 - 02:28 PM

Yep, that looks like evidence! It certainly seems to be a bit of an issue in what is presumably your neck of the woods, er, fields. That doesn't necessarily equate to a significant issue across the rest of the country, of course. I had a brief search, but couldn't turn up any useful national statistics.

The grubbing up of orchards has been going on for years, I'm afraid. Not always to move away from agriculture, or even from orchards, but farming is a business, and if an orchard can more profitably be turned to something else... And there has also been an issue with the profitability of farming for years, especially for smaller farmers. As for knocking down houses in large gardens, again, that's been known about for years. At least 15 years ago, I can remember reading about this happening on the South coast particularly, in places like Poole. Developer outbids everyone for house with large garden & sea views, knocks down house, builds 6 flats & sells each for the value of the original house & makes millions... Can't say as I like it much, but I can't see what you can do about it.

A similar thing happened on the A10 between Cambridge & Ely, at Waterbeach. One lone house set in a very large plot was allowed to fall into disrepair, presumably whilst planning permission was being sought. Eventually a tall fence was put up which more or less hid the house (I used to drive past it going to / from work), then it disappeared... I've no idea how many houses were put on it in the end. Google is out of date for this also, but if
this link works, it's the lone property where the bus stop is marked. If you go to Satellite, you can see there was a substantial amount of woodland; I don't know how much of that survives; and if you roll down to Streetview, you can see... actually, I think it might be a new property being built. It doesn't look like the old house, which, I'm sure, was further back from the road, and SV reckons that's Aug '16, which is well after the old house went. I have a feeling that this was actually bought up by travellers, which the buildings & caravans that can be seen tends to support.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: keberoxu
Date: 14 Nov 17 - 02:50 PM

Big Al Whittle, I like your taste in cartoons.

James Thurber!

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Mr Red
Date: 15 Nov 17 - 01:40 PM

behind my house three years ago, Goggle shows the house being built. 5 minutes walk another house in the garden of "Triona", and about 20 seconds before that they ripped up a stone house and built a care home for special people, loadsa tarmac (this year). & the special needs school (no connection AFAIK) they are for ever adding bits like a swimming pool. And just across from there about 20 (min) houses on the site of a builders yard, knocking down yet another stone cottage 10 years ago. Then there is the Old Ship Inn site, lain fallow/green for years, but arguably reclaimed land, alongside the canal (add 25% to the value just for the amenity) - pegged-pout ready for the dull-bozers. And opposite that a huge accommodation block for the private school. True they knocked down a building, of much smaller size. They has laid artificial surface (ie impervious) tennis courts this year. And the Old Ryeford pub that was stripped and more floors put in with 10 or more sheltered housing behind - oh about 2 years ago. Plus a single house being built behind what was a police house.
All in a town of 3000 ish houses.

The real problem is that it is only a small increase, - yea small per year. And we can't properly house the people we have - modern culture and an addiction to house prices.

I remember in the 60's neighbours being three and four person households. One house was brothers and wives until they could afford to divide and move on, a not unknown practice then. People did without until they could afford.

That culture may well return, and may well not!

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Nov 17 - 07:53 PM

The population of Bude was 7000 when we came here 30 years ago. It's now in excess of 10000. The reason for the increase is a massive estate of soulless housing behind Morrisons and a massive development at Binhamy Farm, vehemently opposed by locals and Cornwall Council, but overridden by fatty Eric Pickles. There's another major scheme in the offing in Stratton, next door to Bude, that seems certain to go ahead. There are no plans for new schools and the local primaries and our one secondary are bursting at the seams. The next nearest secondary is ten miles away via a rotten bus service. The road infrastructure is a nightmare. The local sewage works can't cope, and it stinks to high heaven in summer during the tourist season. The medical centre is completely overrun. There is no way I can get an appointment to see my GP in less than six weeks unless I join the daily 8.30 am telephone treadmill, even then with little chance of success. The nearest main hospital is forty miles away and the nearest mainline station is an hour's drive at Bodmin Parkway. There are three or four buses a day to Exeter, a two-hour journey. Yet the powers that be seem determined to build hundreds of little boxes on prime agricultural land. The concept of affordable housing is paid minimal lip service. You wanna sell a few acres for building little boxes all the same? You've cracked it! You live in Tory England! Baksheesh is everything!

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Nov 17 - 09:08 PM

But I do live four miles out of town and it's lovely here. Damn!

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Mr Red
Date: 16 Nov 17 - 05:09 AM

yer pays yer money and yer takes yer choice.

meanwhile over at the seat of power - or did I mean throne?
theresa-may-to-take-personal-charge-of-government-response-to-housing-crisis-11364229301661

Now all that means is more houses. On what kind of land?
People seem hell bent on not wanting to live on hillsides, they prefer flat, fertile, alluvial land near rivers - until the river reminds them who's boss. And where were towns cities traditionally first set up? On the banks of the M1 of the day. Rivers.

The world-wide trend is for more and more people to live in cities (& towns). The only way is out onto farmland or up --- and after Grenfell? - Well - you work the double whammy numbers.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Nov 17 - 04:03 AM

Steve, those issues apply everywhere in England, not just Bude.
The population is growing by half a million every year and all those people have to be put somewhere.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Nov 17 - 07:15 AM

I do know that, Keith, and as I live four miles out of town I don't have to do nimby. But Bude is one of the remotest towns of any size in the country. Look at your map if you don't believe me. We have one small medical centre (try parking anywhere near it!) apart from one, maybe two, small independent GP surgeries, two small dental surgeries, one of which does private only, an inadequate sewage works, one secondary school (the next nearest is ten miles away and it's full, and the next ones are over 18 miles away), two infant and two junior schools, no major hospital within an hour's drive and definitely no A&E, a skeletal bus service, no railway within an hour's drive and a road system that bursts at the seams, especially in summer. The tourist season triples the town's population. The facilities in town have to serve many surrounding villages, some of which have had their schools and post offices/village shops closed down. In a nutshell, Keith, the town is expanding rapidly into greenfield sites in spite of its inadequate infrastructure, which planning never seems to take into account (which is why I suspect corruption, and in these little rural communities we're all living in a goldfish bowl...)

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Nov 17 - 09:09 AM

Apart from the tourism, towns all over England are suffering the same problems as Bude, and the cause is the impossibility of providing infrastructure for an extra 500 000 people each and every year.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Nov 17 - 09:20 AM

Easy for you to churn out that same platitude. I've given you chapter and verse of an egregious example of what I consider to be be poor planning. Can you match it with other examples?

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Nov 17 - 10:15 AM

Truro in Cornwall is one I know of but I am sure it is the same all over Cornwall.
Every town here in the SE has overcrowded schools, hospitals, roads and everything else while building houses goes on apace.

We add the equivalent of Sheffield to our population every year but you can not build new schools and hospitals on that scale every year.

You will get no sympathy for the plight of Bude from any England dweller just now.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Raedwulf
Date: 17 Nov 17 - 12:27 PM

There's no 'impossibility' about providing the infrastructure to go with the housing.

Hospitals, schools, et al, aren't power stations, Keith. They don't take several years to come on stream. Infrastructure isn't profitable, houses are. We know how to build hospitals, blah, it's not like they need a new, innovative design every time. But there is no political, economic, or social will to do so, because they do not generate profits. The government doesn't want to build them, businesses do not want to build them, and the 'people' don't want to pay extra tax to build or run them. If they did, 'they' wouldn't keep voting the Tories in!

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Nov 17 - 12:42 PM

I don't want sympathy thank you. What I would like to see is local infrastructure to be addressed before large-scale planning applications are approved. In Bude we are seeing a town of less than ten thousand having to accommodate over a thousand new residents almost in one fell swoop, and not just the once, and most of the development is on greenfield sites. We are not protected by green belt legislation as you are in your leafy Hertford suburbs. The lack of public transport provision means that a population increase creates even more traffic congestion. Apart from a couple of new roundabouts, nothing has been done to address this and there is a chronic parking problem in the town that fills the letters pages every week in the local paper. I understand that locals will generally resist big changes and that they might not always be right. But we are seeing central government overriding not only local council decisions but also county council decisions. Coming from the alleged party of small government I find that to be very disturbing. Eric Pickles' name is poison around here. Now I happen to know Truro very well. I spend a day there at least every two weeks, out and about with my daughter who lives there, and have done for years. It is a much bigger town than Bude and it has a rather fine cathedral. It has the biggest hospital in Cornwall and has a number of secondary schools. It is on the main line to London and has a reasonable bus service. The town is a major regional shopping centre. A town of that size has an existing infrastructure that can far more easily adapt to a growing population. Try again, Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Nov 17 - 01:28 PM

You refer to the infrastructure that existed in Truro before the recent and current massive housing developments.
Any new schools? Any extension to the health care facilities? Ask your daughter.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Nov 17 - 02:27 PM

There is a Truro and Kenwyn Neighbourhood Plan in operation which closely monitors new housing and education infrastructure, among other things. The two state secondary schools have scope for expansion and there was considerable redevelopment at Richard Lander School a few years ago. Post-16 and post-18 education is well provided for. The need for a new primary school was identified. The road from Carland Cross on the A30 into Truro, one of the two main routes into the city, underwent major improvement a couple of years ago. There is a long-term plan in place to dual the A30 between Carland Cross and Chiverton Cross at a cost of ?300 million that will expedite traffic that doesn't need to pass through the town and make the routes into town faster and more accessible (as long as unintended consequences don't kick in). The road at the major junction near the new Waitrose has been vastly ungraded during this year and last. The road running west from the city centre to Treliske is currently being upgraded. There is plenty of parking provision and there is a vast new park and ride near the Waitrose roundabout.

There is a plan and things happen in Truro (no doubt regularly shat on or diverted by the Tories). You won't find much of any of that going on in and around Bude.

As for healthcare provision in Truro and everywhere else, ask your Tory government. I know that my daughter would give you a more honest answer, of course, but one person living in one town is hardly your first port of call.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Nov 17 - 03:08 PM

Vastly upgraded.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Mr Red
Date: 18 Nov 17 - 03:01 AM

Every town here in the SE has overcrowded schools, hospitals, roads and everything else

the SE is overcrowded. It wants more water from the river Severn. If that were a bank account it would be bankrupt. It is the metrocentricity of it all - London has to have, and those that commute to there live around it. Money talks. In an ideal world the there would be a more equitable spread of opportunity. To a lesser degree it applies to other cities and thence to towns pro rata.

Let's face it homo sapiens is the pollution. There is little in the way of solution there, IMNSHO.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Nov 17 - 04:11 AM

Steve, you have applauded the policies that have led to a massive and unsupportable population increase, and as soon as the effects are felt in Bude you whinge.
You want all those people to be housed somewhere else when everywhere else is already struggling to cope with the same problems, too many extra people to be accomodated.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Nov 17 - 04:31 AM

"In Cornwall?we have?235 primary schools, of which 227 have reception classes (with the remaining 8 junior schools); of these, 104 are currently full.? This number is expected to increase as late applications for places are processed over the next few weeks.? The number of primary aged children in Cornwall requiring a school place continues to grow, this picture is mirrored nationally.
Among the areas in Cornwall which are experiencing particular pressures on reception age school places are St Austell, Saltash, Helston, Falmouth, Pool, Camelford, Truro and Newquay."

Note, not lucky old Bude Steve.

http://www.cllrandrewwallis.co.uk/category/school-places/

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Nov 17 - 07:24 AM

I've got news for you, Keith. Reception age is one age-group out of 13. 😂

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Nov 17 - 03:42 AM

And you think that is the only pressure on school places?
You have no idea.
And that was over two years ago. It has got much worse since then.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Iains
Date: 19 Nov 17 - 04:25 AM

Alistair Currie, head of campaigns at Population Matters, a charity which campaigns about the impact of high population levels, said: "These figures for the year up to June 2016 reflect the situation as it has been for many years now, with net migration being the highest driver of population growth."

He added: "More people means more pressure on everything, from our food to our housing and from buses to butterflies."

He sums it all up perfectly!

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Nov 17 - 04:40 AM

And Steve was all in favour until even Bude felt a little pressure.
It is the people at the bottom of the pile who suffer most, having to compete for housing, employment and basic services.
The people Labour used to stand up for.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Nov 17 - 06:38 AM

We are quite lucky where we are in that the government quotas for new housing have been exceeded and there is little effect on our village. Just down the road is different however and massive housing estates have been built with no thought for the underlying infrastructure. A little further afield, in Bradford for instance, there are swathes of derelict industrial land and massive empty mills surrounded by boarded up shops, empty health centres and closed schools. Why is this? Dare I say that the land is not profitable enough for the landowners to sell to housing companies yet? That they are sitting on areas perfect for urban redevelopment until they can make more money out of it?

Just my 2p

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Nov 17 - 06:46 AM

I live near Bude, not in it, Keith. I live nearer to Widemouth Bay, Poundstock and Marhamchurch. I hope the bee in your bonnet about me and Bude isn't buzzing so loud that you can't take that in. My transactions with Bude are very limited (though I'm off to Lidl in a minute). It just happens to be the town I have a bit more experience of.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Jim Martin
Date: 19 Nov 17 - 08:19 AM

'Raggytash' I don't think my neighbours here in Ireland would be too happy with you saying it is Britain!

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Nov 17 - 09:25 AM

Does Widemouth have a school?
I know where you live Steve, and I also know that those villages are centred on Bude. That is where the kids go to school and where you go for basic healthcare and shopping.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Nov 17 - 10:56 AM

My children went to primary school in Marhamchurch. They had to go to the secondary school in Bude as there was no other school within practical reach. We do only basic shopping in Bude as we have to go to Truro very frequently. I told you that. Between the two of us we've had one GP visit in over two years. Our eye health is dealt with in Launceston and my hearing issues, bad back and any outpatient needs are dealt with in Barnstaple. Bude has a smallish Morrisons, a very small Sainsbury's and a small Coop (currently closed down). Oh, and a Lidl (sheesh). The small shops in the extremely congested town centre are dominated by charity shops and shops that cater for tourists. There is no greengrocer shop and just one half-decent butcher. The bakeries are basically pasty shops. Many of the people in those villages do what we do, most of their shopping in regional centres in Exeter, Plymouth, Barnstaple and Truro. The nearest ones are an hour's drive away. You may know where I live but you have to live here in order to understand how things are. There's no such thing as a rural idyll, though there is nice scenery and bad weather. I'll give you that.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Nov 17 - 02:40 PM

You missed my point.

the local primaries and our one secondary are bursting at the seams

Welcome to our world. Same everywhere Steve. Bude is far from the worst in Cornwall never mind up-country!

The reason for the increase is a massive estate of soulless housing behind Morrisons and a massive development at Binhamy Farm

Like every other town in Southern England then.

The road infrastructure is a nightmare

Not just where you live Steve.

The medical centre is completely overrun.

Oh dear. Lucky you did not say "swarming."

There is no way I can get an appointment to see my GP in less than six weeks unless I join the daily 8.30 am telephone treadmill, even then with little chance of success.

You have been so lucky for so long!

The cause is the rapid and uncontrolled rise in population caused by policies that you celebrated.
When others made those same complaints you accused them of racism.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Raggytash
Date: 19 Nov 17 - 05:17 PM

Sorry Jim, I don't follow you. Could you explain.

Ta

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Nov 17 - 05:28 PM

Sorry, Keith, I don't follow you. Could you explain.

Ta.

Subject: RE: BS: Englands Green & Pleasant Land
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Nov 17 - 04:32 AM

Certainly Steve.
You complain about the effect of a sudden large influx of people in Bude.
Your medical centre is "completely overrun."
You have to wait for a GP appointment.
Your schools are "bursting at the seams."
Your roads are crowded.

These are the symptoms of mass immigration that most of the country has been suffering for years.
When anyone else made those complaints you denounced them as racist.
You are a hypocrite.