BS: Hope not hate victory

Subject: BS: Hope not hate victory
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Nov 17 - 04:52 AM

Who was it that said if the 'hope not hate' organisation were not what Farage called them they should sue?

Well, they did. And won.

Nigel Farage forced to retract remarks about anti-fascist group Hope Not Hate

I hope whoever it was will now see Farage for what he is but I somehow doubt that.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Hope not hate victory
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Nov 17 - 06:43 AM

Final paragraph,
Mr Farage said:??I am very surprised at Hope Not Hate?s announcement today that they have won their legal case against me. Some victory! Their statement today is thoroughly disingenuous."

Subject: RE: BS: Hope not hate victory
From: Stu
Date: 15 Nov 17 - 07:10 AM

He's a charlatan and a shill who is utterly bereft of integrity.

Subject: RE: BS: Hope not hate victory
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Nov 17 - 07:33 AM

I'm surprised you're still a fan, Keith, considering his remarks about the "Jewish lobby" in the US. 😂

Subject: RE: BS: Hope not hate victory
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Nov 17 - 07:59 AM

What statement is thoroughly disingenuous? That he has had to withdraw his remarks or that he made false claims?

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Hope not hate victory
From: Jack Campin
Date: 15 Nov 17 - 08:09 AM

If Farage really said that, he's in contempt of court and could be locked up for it.

Subject: RE: BS: Hope not hate victory
From: bobad
Date: 15 Nov 17 - 08:17 AM

I'm surprised you're still a fan, Keith, considering his remarks about the "Jewish lobby" in the US

At least he isn't shy about revealing himself for what he is instead of using weasel terms like the "pro Israel lobby" 😂

Subject: RE: BS: Hope not hate victory
From: akenaton
Date: 15 Nov 17 - 08:19 AM

Don't concern yourselves over trifles, Mr Farage is the man who saved Great Britain.

Subject: RE: BS: Hope not hate victory
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Nov 17 - 08:22 AM

I am not a fan.
I just want to see both sides of the case represented here.
What is your objection to that?

BBC,
Mr Farage said that while he accepted the group did not use violence, some people claiming to support it had behaved violently.
He denied it was a "victory" for the group, saying: "Despite them demanding up to ?100,000 in damages I have not paid them a penny; they demanded an apology which I have not given and they demanded an undertaking to the court which they did not get."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41989583

Subject: RE: BS: Hope not hate victory
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Nov 17 - 09:02 AM


What statement is thoroughly disingenuous? That he has had to withdraw his remarks or that he made false claims?
Huf Post,
Farage said he was ?very surprised? by HnH?s announcement, calling it ?some victory?, adding that its statement on the win was ?thoroughly disingenuous?.

?But the fact is that a number of individuals claiming to support them in the past behaved violently and sought to intimidate and disrupt lawful political meetings,? Farage wrote on Twitter.
He added that the charity should never have launched the court action, ?which has been a complete waste of their donors? money?, before making clear just how small a win he believed they had achieved.?
?Despite them demanding ?100,000 in damages I have not paid them a penny; they demanded an apology that I have not given; and they demanded an undertaking to the Court which they did not get. In addition, they have been forced to pay me thousands in costs, on top of the tens of thousands they will have had to pay their own legal fees?.?
HnH disputed they had paid Farage?s costs, telling HuffPost UK they had simply covered their own legal fees.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/nigel-farage-loses-legal-battle_uk_5a0b1ec6e4b00a6eece497e8?jia ?

Subject: RE: BS: Hope not hate victory
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Nov 17 - 09:24 AM

So, basically, another load of bollocks from the worm.

From the original article.

Facing the threat of a court battle, Mr Farage has now agreed to withdraw his claims.

In a statement filed to the court, he reportedly said: "Having now considered the position further I am happy to acknowledge that Hope Not Hate does not tolerate or pursue violent or undemocratic behaviour."

The MEP also agreed not to repeat the claims or allow anyone to do so on his behalf.

His response is trying to save face and nothing else. Calling him a slimy turd would give slimy turds a bad name.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Hope not hate victory
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Nov 17 - 09:25 AM

Large numbers of the pro-Israel lobby in the US are non-Jews, of AIPAC for example. Easy enough to look up. "Pro-Israel lobby" is the accurate term. "Jewish lobby" is a sloppy and inaccurate expression, which, further, could more easily generate anti-Jewish prejudice. I don't use weasel words, and if I were you I'd acquaint myself a little more carefully with what the expression "weasel words" actually means. You don't appear to know.

Subject: RE: BS: Hope not hate victory
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Nov 17 - 09:31 AM

Anyone using an updated Apple device can avoid spurious question marks in their Mudcat posts by going to Keyboard in settings and turning off Smart Punctuation.

Subject: RE: BS: Hope not hate victory
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Nov 17 - 11:02 AM

Mr Farage is the man who saved Great Britain.

You bet, Ake - just like tRUMP "saved" the U.S.

Subject: RE: BS: Hope not hate victory
From: akenaton
Date: 15 Nov 17 - 11:15 AM

Oh I don't know Greg.....President Donal John will do his best, but I think the "liberals", the media and the establishment will finally fuck up the United States completely. At least Mr Farage accomplished what he set out to do, stop unregulated immigration and regain our sovereignty.
We are leaving the EU, whereas you still have the enemy within?

Subject: RE: BS: Hope not hate victory
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Nov 17 - 11:34 AM

Absolutely, Ake - absolutely--- but who is this "Donal-Juan" you keep going on about? One of the many folks that died in Puerto Rico of neglect and indifference on the part of your hero?

Subject: RE: BS: Hope not hate victory
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Nov 17 - 12:00 PM

Dave,
In a statement filed to the court, he reportedly said:

The writer can not confirm that he said that.
We know for an absolute fact that he did say,
"Farage said he was "very surprised" by HnH's announcement, calling it "some victory", adding that its statement on the win was "thoroughly disingenuous".

"But the fact is that a number of individuals claiming to support them in the past behaved violently and sought to intimidate and disrupt lawful political meetings," Farage wrote on Twitter.
He added that the charity should never have launched the court action, "which has been a complete waste of their donors' money", before making clear just how small a win he believed they had achieved."
"Despite them demanding (pounds sterling)100,000 in damages I have not paid them a penny; they demanded an apology that I have not given; and they demanded an undertaking to the Court which they did not get. In addition, they have been forced to pay me thousands in costs, on top of the tens of thousands they will have had to pay their own legal fees".
HnH disputed they had paid Farage?s costs, telling HuffPost UK they had simply covered their own legal fees."

Subject: RE: BS: Hope not hate victory
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Nov 17 - 04:13 PM

The writer can not confirm that he said that.

Do you not understand that a statement filed to the court will be on record? It may not yet be public but you can be sure that the reporter would not have published without having a good idea what it said!

But please feel free to continue defending the sleazebag. You can always tell a man by the company he keeps.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Hope not hate victory
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Nov 17 - 04:19 PM

And in the interests of fair representation we should not just look at the weasel words of the discredited ex UKIP leader.

This is the official statement from HOPE not hate. I know who I believe.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Hope not hate victory
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Nov 17 - 04:36 AM

Dave, from your OP,
Well, they did. And won.
Similar in the HnH "official statement."

You can call him nasty names like "sleazebag" as much as you like, but in what sense have they actually won?
He is free to continue accusing their supporters of using violence.
They have not been awarded damages against him.
He has paid them nothing, not even their costs, and he even claims they have had to pay his costs!

If anyone can be said to have won it is clearly him, and his supporters will thank you for starting this thread.
Hoist by your O.P. Dave.

Subject: RE: BS: Hope not hate victory
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Nov 17 - 04:49 AM

"I am not a fan."
'Course you're not Keith
Just a supporter - every time
!He is free to continue accusing their supporters of using violence.
They have not been awarded damages against him.
He has paid them nothing, not even their costs, and he even claims they have had to pay his costs!"
See what I mean
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Hope not hate victory
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Nov 17 - 04:54 AM

Jim, I am stating facts not supporting anyone.
Are any of my facts you just quoted inaccurate?
No.
They are facts.

Subject: RE: BS: Hope not hate victory
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Nov 17 - 05:04 AM

You reminded me to look up how this started Keith. This is the relevent post.

Subject: RE: BS: A new political low take 2

From: Keith A of Hertford - PM

Date: 24 Dec 16 - 04:48 AM

...

Is it a smear? I do not know but Farage is not known for making statements he can not support.

I predict that the legal case will be quietly forgotten or it will fail.

We will see.

Good to see your predictions are as accurate as your analysis of the situation. At least you are consistent.

As to

He is free to continue accusing their supporters of using violence.

Yes, that is true, just as I am free to continue referring to him in various derogatory ways. However, he is not free to continue smearing the organisation itself. He has agreed, in court, to withdraw his claims and not to repeat the claims or allow anyone to do so on his behalf.

A victory for truth by anyone's standards. Except yours maybe but we all know that anyway.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Hope not hate victory
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Nov 17 - 05:05 AM

HOW CAN WITHDRAWING BE WINNING?

Subject: RE: BS: Hope not hate victory
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Nov 17 - 05:14 AM

Last line of Jim's link

Lowles said of Farage?s statement: ?He?s picking at straws and trying to find any crumb of comfort; this is not a victory for him, it?s a humiliation.?

Spot on. As I said earlier, he is just trying to save face. Idiot.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Hope not hate victory
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Nov 17 - 05:30 AM

FARAGE UBER ALLES
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Hope not hate victory
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Nov 17 - 05:39 AM

Dave,
Good to see your predictions are as accurate as your analysis of the situation.

They were.
I predicted the action would be quietly forgotten or would fail, and it failed.
As Jim said;
"He is free to continue accusing their supporters of using violence.
They have not been awarded any damages against him.
He has paid them nothing, not even their costs, and he even claims they have had to pay his costs!"

you can be sure that the reporter would not have published without having a good idea what it said!

Not a good enough idea to report it as fact, only with the weasel word "reportedly."

Steve, will you be picking Dave up on his misuse if the term "weasel words" (15 Nov 17 - 04:19 PM ) as you did to Bobad yesterday?

Subject: RE: BS: Hope not hate victory
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Nov 17 - 05:42 AM

NOT FORGETTING
Is this what you call not being a supporter Keith?
Jim Caaarroll

Subject: RE: BS: Hope not hate victory
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Nov 17 - 05:46 AM

Farage quoted in Jim's Guardian link,
?It is the case that we?ve now resolved our dispute and I am perfectly happy to accept that the organisation doesn?t pursue violent or undemocratic means.
?But the fact is that a number of individuals claiming to support them have in the past behaved violently and sought to intimidate and disrupt lawful political meetings. This is a case Hope not Hate should never have brought and which has been a complete waste of their donors? money.

?Despite them demanding up to ?100,000 in damages, I have not paid them a penny; they demanded an apology that I have not given; and they demanded an undertaking to the court which they did not get.
?In addition, they have been forced to pay me thousands in costs, on top of the tens of thousands they will have had to pay for their own legal fees.?

Subject: RE: BS: Hope not hate victory
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Nov 17 - 05:48 AM

Jim,
Is this what you call not being a supporter Keith?

I am not, and never have been.

Subject: RE: BS: Hope not hate victory
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Nov 17 - 05:57 AM

Anyone still need convincing it's better to support hope than hate...???

Subject: RE: BS: Hope not hate victory
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Nov 17 - 05:58 AM

and it failed.

Your definition of failed is obviously different to the rest of the world. Apart from Farage. Once again proving...

Different morality
Different language
Different planet

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Hope not hate victory
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Nov 17 - 07:12 AM

If the action had succeeded, damages would have been awarded.
Not even costs were awarded.
The action cost them hundreds of thousands that should have been spent on their good works, and what have they gained by it?
They achieved nothing.
The action failed as I predicted it would.

Subject: RE: BS: Hope not hate victory
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Nov 17 - 08:14 AM

They achieved nothing?

Farage, December 2016

He backs organisations like Hope Not Hate, who masquerade as being lovely and peaceful, but actually pursue violent and undemocratic means.

Farage, Noveber 2017

Having now considered the position further I am happy to acknowledge that Hope Not Hate does not tolerate or pursue violent or undemocratic behaviour.

They made Farage admit he was wrong and cleared their name of the slur that him and hos pack of curs tried to cause damage with. They forced him to tell the truth.

May not be an achievement to you but to people who believe that the truth should not be twisted by conniving scumbags like Farage and his cronies it is a milestone. Maybe the scum who use these tactics as a matter of course will think twice next time. The money (yes, including my ?50) was well spent.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Hope not hate victory
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Nov 17 - 09:09 AM

Words are cheap.
He continues to assert that their supporters use violence.

They were awarded nothing by the court. No damages, not even their costs, and they even have to pay some if not all of his costs!

As I predicted their action failed, and the cost to them was heavy indeed.

You can still call him silly names on here though Dave.
That must really hurt him!

Subject: RE: BS: Hope not hate victory
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Nov 17 - 09:31 AM

I doubt if they do but I am sure having to eat humble pie did.

Did you say calling people silly names on here does not hurt anyone? What were you so upset about when someone referred to you as a thick cunt and I said I did not think you were thick then? :-)

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Hope not hate victory
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Nov 17 - 10:28 AM

Did you say calling people silly names on here does not hurt anyone? What were you so upset about when someone referred to you as a thick cunt

I was not in the least upset. 39 years as an army reservist and forty years as a teacher, the last 10 at a unit for excluded kids, has rendered me immune to abuse!
I object to abuse on here because decent people like Senoufou are driven away and many more are intimidated from contributing.
I hate it, but you calling some politician rude names does no harm to anyone.

I am sure having to eat humble pie did.
You have read his quotes. He is not eating humble pie and is not in the least humbled.
Making that statement cost him nothing, and he continues exactly as before.
The action against him failed, and wasted hundreds of thousands in donations that could have been put to good use.

Subject: RE: BS: Hope not hate victory
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Nov 17 - 10:41 AM

Fine Keith. You carry on believing that the sun shines out of his arse.

I will carry on believing the truth.

No point in any further discussion apart from, in the light of your revelation about being immune from abuse...

Twat.

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Hope not hate victory
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Nov 17 - 11:41 AM

Dave, your mask is slipping. You are exposing yourself for what you are, a cowardly troll.
Keith has never abused you to my knowledge, I suppose his superior intellect is more hurtful.

Subject: RE: BS: Hope not hate victory
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Nov 17 - 12:22 PM

No point in any further discussion apart from, in the light of your revelation about being immune from abuse...Twat.

You resort to silly name calling whenever your arguments fail.
Water off a duck's back for me, but an admission of defeat from you.

And I am no supporter of Farage, but you already knew that.

Subject: RE: BS: Hope not hate victory
From: Iains
Date: 16 Nov 17 - 12:44 PM

The two opposing arguments do not add up for me. I think there is a little more of this story yet to be told.

Subject: RE: BS: Hope not hate victory
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Nov 17 - 04:27 PM

Keith, you said you were immune to abuse so I called you a twat followed by a smiley. If that silly name calling or admission of anything apart from a sense of humour then my mantra is underlined even further.

Different morality
Different language
Different planet

Ake, had any good posts deleted recently? That is one sure sign of a troll who not only does not know his arse from his elbow but has no idea how to interact with normal human beings.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Hope not hate victory
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Nov 17 - 04:39 PM

Iains - I think they make as much sense as the arguments on here :-) On the one hand there are people like Farage and Trump with their alt-truth and on the other there are normal people.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Hope not hate victory
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Nov 17 - 04:56 PM

Mr Farage spoke the truth, he explained the effects of unregulated immigration, he exposed the lack of democracy in the EU, the corrupt nature of the organisation, the loss of sovereignty and the people responded.

A good dose of unvarnished truth works wonders.

Subject: RE: BS: Hope not hate victory
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Nov 17 - 04:59 PM

More alt truth, ake. Keep on digging lad. You are good at it.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Hope not hate victory
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Nov 17 - 03:53 AM

Dave, following up an offensive term of abuse with a smiley face does not change the fact that you had switched from reasoned discussion to insult, as you and a few others do when you have no other reply.

Subject: RE: BS: Hope not hate victory
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Nov 17 - 05:20 AM

This is neither an argument or discussion, Keith. Until you pissed in the pool it was a celebration of HOPE not hate getting tosser Farage to admit the truth and delivering a great win for the truth. Now that you have polluted the waters you should not be at all surprised at the consequences.

You choose to see the court case it another way, that if your right. But, aside from your cheerleader ake, you will not get many on here to agree with you.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Hope not hate victory
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Nov 17 - 08:44 AM

Here's one for Christians to debate...

Will Farage be be ending up in Heaven or Hell...???


.. and whichever of the two destinations he does he does find as his eternal just deserts,
will he continue sowing division and hostility for his own smug slimy nefarious ambition and gain...?????

Subject: RE: BS: Hope not hate victory
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Nov 17 - 08:57 AM

Well, it would be hell according to me. According to others it would be heaven as he has never done anything wrong ;-) Luckily, if I believed in such things, I would be in the opposite one :-)

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Hope not hate victory
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Nov 17 - 09:02 AM

Dave, your case was that HnH have won a "victory" in the court.
I made the case that they have not because no damages or even costs were awarded, and we discussed those issues.

When your case collapsed you resorted to abuse.
You called me "Twat" and linked my name to the epithet "thick cunt" just as you did a few weeks ago under similar circumstances.
On that occasion it was deleted and you apologised.
That you have done it again shows the insincerity of your apology and the malicious intent behind both.

As Ake says, your mask slips.

Subject: RE: BS: Hope not hate victory
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Nov 17 - 09:34 AM

Keith if as you insist you are a big strong military man who couldn't give a monkeys about being called sweary names
as part and parcel of robust manly vulgar banter,
why are you being so prissy and still going on about it so much...???

Subject: RE: BS: Hope not hate victory
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Nov 17 - 09:47 AM

I don't know how I can make it any more simple, Keith. I have not made a case. This is not and never was intended to be an argument. Only you are making it so. I was and still am celebrating the victory of truth over the lies that Mr Toad told. The fact that you cannot see him for what he is speaks volumes about your own character but I shall not press that point.

As to your point about rude names. I have said what I have said with no apologies or any further explanations. I believe you are being either disingenuous or particularly dense not to get the point. I don't know which it is but I am no longer playing that game.

Try solitaire.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Hope not hate victory
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Nov 17 - 10:07 AM

PFR, I am inured to abuse as I said, but I hate to see it used here against anyone for the reasons I gave earlier.
I also believe it to be resorted to by Dave and others when they have nothing else to contribute and always say so when they do it.