BS: Damian Green

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 04:49 AM

Jim - spot on...

Iains - I'll attack any effin religion I like... which is all of 'em...

No religions are safe from the sarcstic wrath of PFR...

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 04:43 AM

"What a clever lad to insult christianity!"
About as clever as you to insult every other belief and those who hold it
Religion is superstition which anybody is free to examine, criticise and dismiss
If it is wrong to attack religion it is wrong to attack any dearly held belief.
Can't speak for PFK, but I suspect he does so here because Keith, while professing to be a Christian, shows no sign of Christian humanity and freely attacks other cultures by attributing everything wrong that happens, including paedophelia to their being - say "Muslim"
What PFK describes is what the Bible claims happened, in everyday language - go take a look in the book you're fond of quoting and come back and tell us what isn't there
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Iains
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 04:28 AM

What a clever lad to insult christianity! I suspect you would not attack Islam with the same enthusiasm. Some of those fatwahs can end up being painful.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 02:09 AM

At this Xmas time, a celebration of the birth of the Christ child...

Remember God fiddled with an underage girl, probably while she was asleep and unaware, made her pregnant;
then he buggered off and abandoned her and the child.
The best he could do was get one of his mates to go round and tell her
she'd been abused and impregnated by a much older bloke she'd never met and didn't know...

This is at the root of a very conservative religion that doen't traditionally have the best attitudes towards the value of women....
A religion at the root of high & mighty British ruling class establishment..........

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 07:01 PM

All good for a laugh, John! Lessee what comedy the morrow brings...

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 06:10 PM

The Professor will be along in a minute to tell us they 'have a long-standing grudge' against Green. Then, when he's taken to task and asked to prove it, he'll say it's 'not his field'.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 05:47 PM

So, Jim, two more women are out there with even more serious allegations against him. Well who'd have thought it...

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 05:19 PM

Nah, Dave, he can just bugger off as far as I'm concerned, the bloody hypocrite. He'll get no hoop-jumping from me.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 04:21 PM

Good grief guys. Hoops are being raised once again. Just saying :-(

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 01:48 PM

There was no evidence against any of them except "evidence" that you vexatiously applied the wrong definition of antisemitism to. Like going into a shoe shop and cutting off your toes in order to fit the shoes. Now I'm not saying this in order to fire up that tedious old argument again (and I refuse to join in if you're stupid enough to rattle on about it, which I'm sure you are: I can feel a boring appeal to authority coming up...), but to illustrate your sheer hypocrisy and double standards, as if they needed illustrating.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 01:09 PM

"Because they had every reason to."
Bollocks Keith - they had less of a reason to lie than did Damian Green; one of them had never been accused of doing so
You claimed they were lying purely on the basis of their saying bad things about a member of the establishment -
AS it turned out, it was he who was lying
"He denies any such offer and no evidence has been produced. Have you any?"
So once more the victim with no reason to lie is lying
You are a stereo chauvinist hypocrite
"He has no such record. You just made that up Jim."
I DON'T MAKE ANYTHING UP
I suppose they're all lying and your proven serial liar is innocent of all charges!!!
You and your type really are a danger to women Keith
No wonder the Jimmy Saviles of this world got away with it fora as long as
they did with the likes of you on their side
Think we've allowed you to dig your own grave here, don't you
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 12:38 PM

Jim,
Why did you assume the "ex cops bore a grudge"

Because they had every reason to.
"Damian Green and the decade-long feud with ex-Met officer Bob Quick "
Remember this Guardian article? I have linked to it a few times now.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/01/damian-green-decade-long-feud-met-officer-bob-quick

And once more you refuse to even acknowledge the offers of sex for promotion

He denies any such offer and no evidence has been produced. Have you any?

a track record of harassing text messages.

He has no such record. You just made that up Jim.

Steve,
Unless it's about Labour politicians accused of antisemitism via a newly-cobbled together definition intended to fit the charges. Jaysus, what hypocrisy.

There was hard evidence against every one of them.
Which one do you challenge Steve?

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 11:49 AM

" I just expect evidence before assuming guilt."

Unless it's about Labour politicians accused of antisemitism via a newly-cobbled together definition intended to fit the charges. Jaysus, what hypocrisy.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 11:21 AM

"Why do you assume he is guilty?"
Why did you assume the "ex cops bore a grudge" - or are you alone in being able to draw conclusions?
""so fleeting as to be almost deniable" and only on the knee and in a public place."
And once more you refuse to even acknowledge the offers of sex for promotion
if a woman's record of sexual activity didn't come up to scratch it would go against her in court (a man's wouldn't)
The man is a proven liar with a track record of harassing text messages.
Doesn't mean a thing to you, does it Keith?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 10:37 AM

ignore the sex messages and suggestions of career advancement for sex

No "sex messages" have been produced and there is no evidence for any sexual harassment.

Lewis was cleared by an enquiry - not a great deal more to be said without knowing the facts

Yes he was, so they decided she was lying about being groped, so we should be careful about always believing such accusations which in this case do not involve anything more than a touch, "so fleeting as to be almost deniable" and only on the knee and in a public place.

So I ask again Jim,how do you know this? No such evidence has become public.

Why do you assume he is guilty?

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 09:57 AM

"It was a fellow Labour person who accused Clive Lewis of groping her intimately, and Labour's enquiry cleared him."
Incidentally Keith, unlike you, I don't give two monkeys what particular shade of politics the particular offender comes from - it is the offence that is important
Lewis was cleared by an enquiry - not a great deal more to be said without knowing the facts
Green was found to be a liar on the matter of his sexual behaviour and was forced to resign yet you continue to defend him
That says everything then needs to be said about you
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 09:35 AM

"I thought they were all liars Jim."
If you believe that, why are you defending one of them with the veracity that you are?
In this case, Green's victim has no reason to lie and has every reason not to
Green is a proven liar on the subject of his sexual proclivities
And again, you reduce this to "a touch of the knee" and ignore the sex messages and suggestions of career advancement for sex
Neither seem important enough for you to find worthy of comment, which is exactly why we have such a disgraceful number of cases of sexual harassment and actual assaults and even rapes by the great and the good now being made public
It is attitudes like yours that have made modern society the dangerous place it has become for women
I suspect the women in your live have managed to avoid the effects of the Greens and the Weinsteins of this world - your complacent and actual support for these people suggest that they have been lucky enough to do so.
You really are something else Keith
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 08:48 AM

Jim,
The accusation has been made by a fellow Tory - there is no reason to believe a lying porn user such as Green rather than a Tory activist

I thought they were all liars Jim.
It was a fellow Labour person who accused Clive Lewis of groping her intimately, and Labour's enquiry cleared him.

In Green's case was have an unsubstantiated allegation, that he denies, of merely a fleeting touch to the knee and "suggestive" texts a year later.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 08:44 AM

Making someone feel uncomfortable is not much of an offence, and he apologised for it anyway.
He denies her claims about anything more reprehensible.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 08:43 AM

"No such evidence has become public."
The accusation has been made by a fellow Tory - there is no reason to believe a lying porn user such as Green rather than a Tory activist
"I just expect evidence before assuming guilt."
Just as you expected the same evidence about the policemen you accused of being "tainted" before Green confessed that he was lying and they were actually telling the truth, do you mean?
He denies it, and there is no evidence for it except the claims, ten years later, of ex-cops with a grudge.
"It is an independent Civil Service enquiry."
There is no guarantee on any such thing - certainly not now
The British Justice system is probably best summed up by one of its most common phrases "you get the best defence money can buy"
Green's accuser, should she take the matter to court, will need to prepare herself for the same ordeal a rape victim is forced to undergo
She will be accused of offering sex for career favours and her own sexual history will be put on display for th world to view - that is why sex crimes and harassment are left unreported in the numbers they are.
Unless she is a very principled individual prepared to make sacrifices, she is likely to settle out of court, (at best) or more likely, forget the matter altogether and we will have to put up with the likes of Green who make the laws and decide the direction this country takes
There is a bit of a revolution going on at present regarding the abuse of power for sexual gains - it started with the exposure of the extent of clerical abuses, moved on to Savile's crimes, and is now reaching into many corners of the great and the good
Green is just a small part of what is happening - watch this space, plenty more to come yet.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 08:39 AM

I clearly made her feel uncomfortable and for this I apologise

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 08:34 AM

Dave,
Mr Green said it was "absolutely and completely untrue that I've ever made any sexual advances on Ms Maltby".

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 08:29 AM

From the "Yorkshire Post" last Friday.

When Mr Green resigned on Wednesday he said he did not recognise Ms Maltby's version of events, stating: "I deeply regret the distress caused to Kate Maltby following her article about me and the reaction to it.

"I do not recognise the events she described in her article, but I clearly made her feel uncomfortable and for this I apologise."

Not much of denial.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 08:22 AM

Mr Green said it was "absolutely and completely untrue that I've ever made any sexual advances on Ms Maltby".
His text was sent in the spirit of "two friends agreeing to meet up for a regular catch-up", he said, adding: "This untrue allegation has come as a complete shock and is deeply hurtful, especially from someone I considered a personal friend."

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 08:18 AM

Jim,
In both cases sex was demanded for assistance to the career of the women

How do you know this Jim? No such evidence has become public.

Why are you continuing to defend this garbage?

I do not. I just expect evidence before assuming guilt.
Is there any?

That is hardly likely to be said by a Tory-led enquiry unless there is substance.

It is an independent Civil Service enquiry.
Did we need an enquiry to tell us the claim was "plausible?"
No evidence that it is true however.

No he does not (deny her claims).

Yes he does.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 08:05 AM

The Cabinet Office enquiry found Kate Maltby's account to be plausible. That is hardly likely to be said by a Tory-led enquiry unless there is substance.

"She claims only "suggestive" not explicit comments following the publication of a picture of her in underwear, and that was a year later."

No she did not "claim" this. The actual text message that he sent is well and truly in the public domain. Not a claim, Keith. A fact.

"She then waited two years to go public."

She did not "wait" in the sense you are insinuating. As Jim says, it is a very difficult matter for individual women to make these accusations. She herself has already reaped a whirlwind in the form of a scurrilous article in the Mail excoriating her character, which is suspected of having been encouraged by Green and/or his allies.

"He denies the claims."

No he does not. He has apologised for making her feel uncomfortable. Therefore he has, in essence, accepted the substance of her account of their relationship.
If you deal in the truth instead of msking all this up, Keith, we could feasibly discuss it with you. But you are clearly on a Green's side and dismiss Maltby's account, throwing more than a dash of misogyny into the mix. Disgraceful behaviour.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 06:50 AM

"There is no comparison between the two cases."
OIf course there is Keith
In both cases sex was demanded for assistance to the career of the women
Iwhere do you think Green's sex would have taken place head his demands been met on the kitchen table
"She claims only a "fleeting" touch to her knee in a busy pub."#]
She also claims that sex was suggested as a step up her career ladder
In the cases of both Green and Weinstein is was the exact same situation where someone of power and influence asking for se3x in return for favours
"She then waited two years to go public."
Most women are afriad to report sexual offences because of the backlash it involves them and their faimilies in
Of course he denies the charges, just as he denied the pornography#
He is a proven liar whose cover has just been blown
Why are you continuing to defend this garbage?
Rhetorical question - it is because you are what you are a cap-doffing toady to the powerful with a touch of misogyny thrown in
JIm Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 05:38 AM

Jim,
Now what happened to Harvey Weinstein when he was found doing that!!!!

There is no comparison between the two cases.

In Green's case there was no sexual activity in hotel bedrooms or anywhere else.
She claims only a "fleeting" touch to her knee in a busy pub.
She claims only "suggestive" not explicit comments following the publication of a picture of her in underwear, and that was a year later.

She then waited two years to go public.
He denies the claims.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Dec 17 - 02:42 PM

"wives in the kitchen with an iron in their hand.."
Get it right PFR
Bending over with an iron in her hand
Nothing more sexually stimulating to those boys than women who know where they should be and when
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 28 Dec 17 - 01:38 PM

We know old boy tories prefer their wives in the kitchen with an iron in their hand..
but surely that can't be much of a movie..

still.. whaterver floats yer yacht...!!!???

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Dec 17 - 01:37 PM

"It is not devious to look at legal porn,"
I see the lady who was offered a career boost in return for sex has been forgotten in the festivities
Now what happened to Harvey Weinstein when he was found doing that!!!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Iains
Date: 28 Dec 17 - 12:46 PM

I'm going to watch "The Iron Lady"
I heard a rumour the pope is going to canonize her.
Perhaps she will be known as St. Thatcher of the mines.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 28 Dec 17 - 11:07 AM

...ooh.. before I go.. must recommend "Their Finest (2016)"

A WW2 movie that's an interesting tale of wartime propaganda, which is at times hilarious and affecting, the wife was in tears..

much better than the recent "Whiskey Galore" and "Dad's Army" remakes..

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 28 Dec 17 - 11:00 AM

well.. I got bored waiting to have a shit.. it killed a few minutes...

But now I've had a fair clear out,
I'm off to either watch a good old 2nd world war movie, or fall asleep on the sofa..

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Iains
Date: 28 Dec 17 - 10:42 AM

"Desperately raking over the past.. blah..blah..blah..."


What a wonderfully crafted, reasoned response! I am surprised you bother.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 28 Dec 17 - 10:35 AM

Kieth - ok... seeing as it's the festive season.. let's play "what if"..

What if the real masterminds behind Green's humiliating public downfall & dismissal
are right wing tories plotting a leadership coupe against the Prime Minister.
And in doing so, setting up the left, and more inependant minded police to take the blame....???

Far fetched..???
but well within the realms of Machiavellian tory possibilities...

Now that's what I'd call proper tory treachery, that's the quality of tories I'd respect as real arch villains.....

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Dec 17 - 10:16 AM

what Green did in the days before the cops had their attention drawn to his devious behaviour...

No devious behaviour was uncovered.
It is not devious to look at legal porn, which he denies anyway.

The police behaviour could be described as devious.
Labour's Keir Starmer, then the Director of Public Prosecutions, found that the accusations against him were false. The leaks did not expose any secret information (unlike Bob Quick's) and did not involve national security (unlike Quick's incompetence.)
There was no justification for the raids on Green's offices and his home. He should never have been imprisoned or even questioned.
Deviant police behaviour.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 28 Dec 17 - 10:04 AM

Desperately raking over the past.. blah..blah..blah...

The pertinent matter, what really counts, is that he got sacked for his lies last week...!!!!!


Though, maybe you are not going far enough back into his grimy past..

Maybe you should give more attention to what Green did in the days before the cops had their attention drawn to his devious behaviour...

Funny how the tories only call the police 'bullies' when they are not obeying tory high command direct orders to harass left leaning citizens...?????

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Iains
Date: 28 Dec 17 - 09:48 AM

pfr let me remind you the Danmien Green affair revolved around events that occurred in April 2009. This was when the police bullied their way into Parliament and searched his office without a search warrant. All subsequent events stem from this. Maybe anything occurring more than a week ago is too much for you to take in, but you may take my word for it.

As Martin said to his man "who is the fool now"?

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Raggytash
Date: 28 Dec 17 - 08:13 AM

There is one pertinent quote in that article that is relevant to the Brexit discussion and it comes from George Osborne.

"I think to hide information from the public is wrong"

Perhaps he could repeat this to David Davis and Philip Hammond who are busy withholding impact reports not only from the public but from Parliament.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 28 Dec 17 - 07:44 AM

Happy New Year Iains !!!



That'll be 2018 in case you need reminding..

seeing as you are spending so much time dwelling in the past dredging up Daily Mail articles from donkey's years ago...

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Iains
Date: 28 Dec 17 - 07:36 AM

Damien Green- The wider issues.

Just imagine the squeals if Diane Abbot has received similar treatment from the Tories.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1090062/Terror-Tory-MPs-daughter-NINE-anti-terror-police-raid-home-immigration-leaks-med

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Iains
Date: 28 Dec 17 - 06:06 AM

"Two cheeks of the same arse. Ignore."

Trying to emulate the gutter press shaw?
Why not go back to a riveting discussion of weeds and cheap booze?
You and your packmates seem to have done Damien Green to death.

I suggest you go to Akela and ask pretty please for a new topic to attempt to monopolise.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 28 Dec 17 - 05:53 AM

Because frankly I don't care, or can be bothered wasting time playing your attention seeking game...

It's not so much what you say [i'm not that easily shocked or offended..]
it's how, and the interminally repetetative forum spamming OCD way you drive us up the wall saying it...

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Dec 17 - 05:05 AM

K & I are just too feeble and easy, it's not a fair fight....

So why can you not quote anything I have got wrong, or challenge anything I have actually posted?

I do it to you people all the time.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 28 Dec 17 - 05:00 AM

..and further honesty, in light of cross posting with Steve..

If Keith and Iains are the only villains we have left, that's pathetic.. we need proper 'baddies' we can rise up to and sink our teeth in, and test our fighting skills against..

K & I are just too feeble and easy, it's not a fair fight....

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 28 Dec 17 - 04:55 AM

I'll be honest my default stance on 'safe spacing' tends to agree with keith...

Though I'll modify his aguement and delete the bit I seriously disagree with...

"It diminishes the forum if people are removed for holding views that many here do not agree with,
even though they are ___ widely held views."

If we don't have polarising opposing villains to confront and challenge..
a forum might stagnate,
and we may well eventually just end up squabbling anodyne 'fine points and distinctions' amongst ourselves..........?????

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Dec 17 - 04:42 AM

No-one has been excluded from this forum simply for expressing contrary views. That is a slur against the moderators. Perhaps you're confusing this with what your Tories try to do (ask Heseltine). Your friend's abuse frequency was way higher than anyone else's. That's why he's not here and you know it. Stop bleating about this and make an honest man of yourself, and stop calling for the reinstatement of a man whose abuses you are excusing only because you're a fellow-traveller of his. It wouldn't be half so bad if you weren't constantly whingeing about how you think people abuse YOU all the time.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Dec 17 - 04:19 AM

why you are calling for the reinstatement of one of the most serially abusive people ever to post here.

There are more abusive people who have not been excluded.
It diminishes the forum if people are removed for holding views that many here do not agree with, even though they are legitimate and widely held views.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Dec 17 - 05:55 PM

Shhh...!