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BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?

Mr Red 23 Dec 17 - 07:20 AM
Raggytash 23 Dec 17 - 07:26 AM
Bonzo3legs 23 Dec 17 - 07:38 AM
punkfolkrocker 23 Dec 17 - 07:47 AM
punkfolkrocker 23 Dec 17 - 07:49 AM
Jim Carroll 23 Dec 17 - 07:52 AM
Iains 23 Dec 17 - 08:03 AM
Jim Carroll 23 Dec 17 - 08:09 AM
Iains 23 Dec 17 - 08:14 AM
Keith A of Hertford 23 Dec 17 - 08:27 AM
DMcG 23 Dec 17 - 08:43 AM
Raggytash 23 Dec 17 - 09:06 AM
mayomick 23 Dec 17 - 09:14 AM
punkfolkrocker 23 Dec 17 - 09:30 AM
Backwoodsman 23 Dec 17 - 09:32 AM
Jim Carroll 23 Dec 17 - 09:33 AM
punkfolkrocker 23 Dec 17 - 09:42 AM
Greg F. 23 Dec 17 - 10:20 AM
Keith A of Hertford 23 Dec 17 - 10:28 AM
punkfolkrocker 23 Dec 17 - 10:33 AM
Keith A of Hertford 23 Dec 17 - 10:36 AM
punkfolkrocker 23 Dec 17 - 10:45 AM
Jim Carroll 23 Dec 17 - 11:08 AM
Keith A of Hertford 23 Dec 17 - 01:41 PM
Jim Carroll 23 Dec 17 - 02:02 PM
Jim Carroll 23 Dec 17 - 02:03 PM
The Sandman 23 Dec 17 - 03:05 PM
peteaberdeen 23 Dec 17 - 03:36 PM
DMcG 24 Dec 17 - 03:22 AM
Keith A of Hertford 24 Dec 17 - 03:27 AM
Jim Carroll 24 Dec 17 - 03:29 AM
DMcG 24 Dec 17 - 03:43 AM
DMcG 24 Dec 17 - 03:44 AM
Keith A of Hertford 24 Dec 17 - 03:47 AM
DMcG 24 Dec 17 - 03:53 AM
Backwoodsman 24 Dec 17 - 04:26 AM
Keith A of Hertford 24 Dec 17 - 04:33 AM
DMcG 24 Dec 17 - 04:40 AM
Iains 24 Dec 17 - 04:47 AM
Raggytash 24 Dec 17 - 04:59 AM
DMcG 24 Dec 17 - 05:03 AM
Iains 24 Dec 17 - 05:14 AM
Backwoodsman 24 Dec 17 - 05:37 AM
DMcG 24 Dec 17 - 05:47 AM
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Raggytash 24 Dec 17 - 06:50 AM
David Carter (UK) 24 Dec 17 - 07:35 AM
Mr Red 24 Dec 17 - 07:46 AM
Steve Shaw 24 Dec 17 - 07:53 AM
DMcG 24 Dec 17 - 07:55 AM
punkfolkrocker 24 Dec 17 - 10:29 AM
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Keith A of Hertford 24 Dec 17 - 10:51 AM
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Iains 24 Dec 17 - 03:13 PM
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Mr Red 31 Dec 17 - 05:37 AM
mayomick 02 Jan 18 - 05:13 PM
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punkfolkrocker 03 Jan 18 - 06:08 AM
Dave the Gnome 03 Jan 18 - 06:27 AM
Steve Shaw 03 Jan 18 - 06:43 AM
Nigel Parsons 03 Jan 18 - 08:48 AM
Raggytash 03 Jan 18 - 08:59 AM
Steve Shaw 03 Jan 18 - 09:03 AM
bobad 03 Jan 18 - 09:05 AM
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Raggytash 03 Jan 18 - 09:21 AM
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Raggytash 03 Jan 18 - 09:54 AM
bobad 03 Jan 18 - 10:08 AM
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Nigel Parsons 03 Jan 18 - 10:21 AM
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bobad 03 Jan 18 - 04:12 PM
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Raggytash 03 Jan 18 - 04:48 PM
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Raggytash 04 Jan 18 - 08:53 AM
Dave the Gnome 04 Jan 18 - 08:54 AM
punkfolkrocker 04 Jan 18 - 09:01 AM
Thompson 04 Jan 18 - 09:28 AM
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Dave the Gnome 04 Jan 18 - 09:53 AM
Mr Red 04 Jan 18 - 11:48 AM
Iains 04 Jan 18 - 05:57 PM
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Mr Red 05 Jan 18 - 03:41 AM
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Stanron 05 Jan 18 - 04:59 AM
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Nigel Parsons 05 Jan 18 - 09:18 AM
Dave the Gnome 05 Jan 18 - 09:27 AM
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DMcG 05 Jan 18 - 10:05 AM
punkfolkrocker 05 Jan 18 - 10:37 AM
DMcG 05 Jan 18 - 10:44 AM
Steve Shaw 05 Jan 18 - 10:45 AM
Iains 05 Jan 18 - 11:04 AM
punkfolkrocker 05 Jan 18 - 11:14 AM
Greg F. 05 Jan 18 - 11:19 AM
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Mr Red 06 Jan 18 - 11:45 AM
McGrath of Harlow 07 Jan 18 - 04:45 PM
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Iains 07 Jan 18 - 05:10 PM
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punkfolkrocker 08 Jan 18 - 05:06 AM
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Subject: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Mr Red
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 07:20 AM

My take on it:

It is a non issue - the issuing of blue UK passports that is.

Designed to pander to the Brexit bullies while obfuscating generally when there are real issues that should be debated NOW before we crash through a myriad roadblocks.

Plan? What plan?

Blue passport seems to be the only plan generated in advance instead of reacting to events.

A non-existent assessment anyone?


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Raggytash
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 07:26 AM

An utterly trivial bit of nonsense to pander to the small mindedness of a proportion of Brexiteers. I'm only surprised they are not Red, White AND Blue.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 07:38 AM

Some of the brexit bullies who donated enormous sums of money to the brexit fiasco, will have fallen foul of section 24 of the Inheritance Act 1984 - I laugh!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 07:47 AM

Costings.. who pays...???


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 07:49 AM

..for this tory true blue petty symbolism..


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 07:52 AM

Maybe it's the colour everybody will be feeling when these pricks finally achieve the Little Rng;and they are seeking!
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Iains
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 08:03 AM

Tory blue. How could it be any other colour?


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 08:09 AM

"Tory blue. How could it be any other colour?"
True enough, taken the number of them up to their uxters in porn
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Iains
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 08:14 AM

MISS, MIss! someone is not paying attention in class.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 08:27 AM

We can not continue to have EU passports when we leave EU.
It had to change.
Blue is the colour we had before we adopted EU passports.
What is the problem?


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: DMcG
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 08:43 AM

There is no problem, though it seems there will be a period of burgundy passports without the "European Union" wording on the cover because the contract award and leaving the EU will not probanly not coincide.

What is mad, though, is the excessive celebration by The Sun and others as if this represents some sort of achievement. Whereas on fact it is of a purely emotional significance qith no practical.impact at all.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Raggytash
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 09:06 AM

The delicious irony is that the new passports may well be printed in Germany or France.

Yeh let's take back control!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: mayomick
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 09:14 AM

According to the Guardian today , biometric passports were imposed by the US on the UK via the EU. Maybe (not) the blue passports will free British people from the obligation to have their eyes scanned post-Brexit?
"The irony is that the UK could have had a blue passport while an EU member. EU member state Croatia currently has a blue passport, after all. In any case, the "iconic" blue passport was imposed from abroad back in 1920 ,thanks to the the League of Nations.https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/dec/22/blue-passports-taking-back-control-imposed-league-of-nations-burgundy-passport-eu


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 09:30 AM

errrm.. I just payed for a new 10 year burgundy passport back in the summer..

Thank f@ck I'm not a brexiteer... I'd be livid..
my face would be turning an 'orrible hue of burgundy in pitiful bitter rage...!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 09:32 AM

A pathetic sop to the feeble-minded. And a deliberate, deceitful distraction from the real issues which the BrexShitters have dumped us in.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 09:33 AM

"Blue is the colour" - of my true love's cheese!
"biometric passports"
Great opportunity for the State to electronically tag us all to make sure we behave ourselves
Then they will be able to make a list of those who don't and pass it on to Trump for future reference - just like the UN delegates who voted against his Jerusalem takeover
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 09:42 AM

Blue passport.. sir / madam.. move right ahead to the VIP desk at the front of the the queue...

yeah.. in their wet dreams...!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 10:20 AM

WTF???? Who gives a shit WHAT color the cover of a passport is?

You pommy buggers are starting to get as idiotic as the U.S. Trumpist contingent.

One would think there were more important issues to engage yourselves with!


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 10:28 AM

Greg,
WTF???? Who gives a shit WHAT color the cover of a passport is?

For once I agree with you. This in a non issue.
This question should have been asked when our ruling elite decreed we must change to the Burgundy EU passport.

It was entirely unnecessary and had the people been consulted I am sure they would have declined.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 10:33 AM

Funnily enough... I'm sure most of them wouldn't have given a toss...!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 10:36 AM

I agree, but I think they would have objected to unnecessary change.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 10:45 AM

yeah.. like how a good half of the nation currently object to unnecessary change leaving EU
just to satisfy the bonkers agenda of deranged right wingers..


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 11:08 AM

Wonder whether those taxpayers who have to foot the bill will worry that the passport change will cost the taxpayer £500m
Jiiim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 01:41 PM

It has to change come Brexit. No choice.
Last time there was no need to change it. That cost was completely unnecessary. I object to that.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 02:02 PM

"It has to change come Brexit. No choice."Tge point exactly - ano
ther Little England burden for the takpayer


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 02:03 PM

Premature ejacultion, but I'm sure someone will explain it to you


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 03:05 PM

i agree with mr red


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: peteaberdeen
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 03:36 PM

til now i have always thought this brexit shit was so stupid it could never really happen. now i'm beginning to think i shouldn't have underestimated the stupidity of the english people. you may get your stupid braindead little englander, wet dream wishes.....you idiots, you idiots.....


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: DMcG
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 03:22 AM

As i said over on the "Life post Brexit" thread, the #pound;490 million is misleading: that is the cost of producing passports for 11.5 years and looks aa if it is entirely funded by the #pound,72 or so people pay when they get a new passport.

The actual cost of changing to blue is unreported but likely to be a few tens of thousands depending on the approval process.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 03:27 AM

What was the cost of unnecessarily changing to an EU passport?
At least this change is necessary.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 03:29 AM

"The actual cost of changing to blue is unreported but likely to be a few tens of thousands depending on the approval process."
Like all Government promises - whatever they claim now, it is bound to be significantly more when the time comes - when has this ever not been the case?
It's a little like the fact thnat no impact surveys have been carried out on the effect of Brexit - as Stephen Fry is fond of saying - "nobody knows"
All we do know for certain is who will bear the burden - go see who benefits and who loses over in the US with the new tax awards


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: DMcG
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 03:43 AM

No official is saying 'tens of thousands' as far as I am aware, Jim. It is an estimate I made based on various design changes I have taken part in, but I have specific knowledge of passporting at all. What I mainly intended to indicate was it would a significant sum in its own right (if thought of in terms of man years at a minimum salary for example) but compared to the £:490 million is minute.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: DMcG
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 03:44 AM

*have NO specific knowledge...


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 03:47 AM

And, if they had not been unnecessarily changed in the first place, this second cost would not have arisen.
That is what people should be railing against.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: DMcG
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 03:53 AM

The design is updated every five years anyway: it is nothing to do with joining the EU or leaving EU. It is mostly about changes to make forgery more difficult.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 04:26 AM

There was a guy from HM Passport Office on TV on Friday, who said that:-

1) The new blue passport will not be introduced until the current contract for supply expires in October 2019.

2) The only cost will be the cost of the new contract, GBP 400,000-ish over the life of the contract, which would have occurred anyway as a part of the renewal of the contract, even if the passport was not being changed.

3) people's existing EU passports will continue to be valid until the expiry date shown in the passport - it will not be necessary to renew your passport in Oct 2019, although some people may choose to do so, at the standard charge of 72 GBP for a new document.

So...it appears that there is no cost directly attributable to the change from the burgundy EU colour to the dark blue U.K. colour.

The only question the man failed to answer (I'd guess because he doesn't yet know) was concerning which queue holders of the burgundy EU passport should join at airports and ports after we leave the EU in March 2019 - 'EU Citizens' or 'All Other Nationalities'.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 04:33 AM

So this really is a non-issue.
Why have we given it a dedicated thread and agonised about it on the Brexit thread too?


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: DMcG
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 04:40 AM

Because papers like "The Sun" and some politicians want to make a big thing of it as if it is some soet of achievement.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Iains
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 04:47 AM

De La Rue has the contract to produce british passports until 2020. Passports have been subject to constant change since their introduction. Most recent changes revolve around increased security.

This is an argument over nothing.

Threats by the EU to increase waiting times for uk passport holders can easily be countered by adopting the same tactics. Stupidity is best countered by additional stupidity.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Raggytash
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 04:59 AM

An there, Ladies and Gentlemen, speaks an expert.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: DMcG
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 05:03 AM

I was perhaps a bit swift in my last response. This IS a significant change, but it is not FINANCIALLY significant. The business of which queue we enter - and it will not be the EU citizens since we won't be EU citizens - is all to do with Brexit and not the passport, and especially not its colour.

No, the real significance of the change is all about the sense of identity. It is intended to support/promote an 'us and them' mentality, for exactly the same reason the burgundy was trying to promote that 'we have common interests' with the rest of Europe.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Iains
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 05:14 AM

"An there, Ladies and Gentlemen, speaks an expert."

from the expert

Wots up raggy? too much christmas spirit?


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 05:37 AM

"No, the real significance of the change is all about the sense of identity. It is intended to support/promote an 'us and them' mentality, for exactly the same reason the burgundy was trying to promote that 'we have common interests' with the rest of Europe."

Yes, I understand that, DMcG - I was simply reporting what the HMPO guy was asked, and what his answers were (or weren't).

AFAIC, it's all bollocks and, if the colour of the UK passport is all some people have to concern themselves over, they must lead very blissfull lives.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: DMcG
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 05:47 AM

That's what I understood you to mean, BMW. I was more trying to correct an earlier post of my own where I could be read as saying this is unimportant. The colour is unimportant. Encouraging division is not.

I work with someone who is married to a woman from France. They have brought their children up to speak both languages. So, the day after the Brexit vote, she happened to be in a local supermarket and spoke French to her children. Whereupon she was verbally set on and given a torrent of abuse of the 'get back you came from' variety.

Anything that makes that sort of abuse more common is objectionable. Hence while the colour is no interest to me at all in itself, I am concerned it might encourage people who are happy to abuse strangers like that.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 06:10 AM

Sorry, DMcG, my misunderstanding. And I'm right there with you on the rest of your post.

One of the things I enjoy from my burgundy EU-British passport, whenever I use it, is the feeling of belonging to a wide group of nations, and comradeship with the citizens of those widely-diverse countries. Something the Union-Jack-boxers and Blue-Passport brigade probably don't understand.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: DMcG
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 06:34 AM

Just noticing we seem to be in a strange, looking-glass sort of world where those who welcome the change of colour are saying it is unimportant, while those who don't care what the colour is think it is important. I think the Gnomish mantra is called for!


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Raggytash
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 06:50 AM

Lewis Brandon, the Home Office Minister who announced the new passport said part of the change was to create a new national identity.

If that is the case can I have an English passport please, because that is my nationality. I'm English, I was born in England, I'm not Scottish (although I believe there may be traces a few generations back) I'm not Welsh and I don't come from Northern Ireland.

So English passport for me.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 07:35 AM

Fortunately I have just renewed mine. Because my identity is of an EU citizen born in the UK. Small minded bigots want to take my identity away,but I will be fighting hard by all means possible to retain it.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Mr Red
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 07:46 AM

Why have we given it a dedicated thread and agonised about it on the Brexit thread too?

To highlight that it is a smokescreen. To quote another outfit that liked smokescreen

"is this a good day to release bad news?". Except it is self-generated in this case.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 07:53 AM

I've considered becoming an Irish citizen in order to keep my EU citizenship. I'm entitled due to my family history on Mother's side. But the buggers over the Irish Sea want a fortune off me!


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: DMcG
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 07:55 AM

I have just sent off for my mother's birth certificate, which is the first step in getting an Irish passport. I haven't yet decided if I will go as far as getting one yet.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 10:29 AM

When my brand new this year passport runs out in 2017,
will I have to swear allegiance to the king before they will grant me a new British passport..???


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 10:30 AM

..ermmm.. 2027...


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 10:51 AM

No.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 12:59 PM

will I have to swear allegiance to the king

No, just to the Tories.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 02:42 PM

What has Elvis got to do with it?


Mind you, I'd far sooner swear allegiance to Elvis than to any of that tawdry bunch of royal parasites...


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Iains
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 03:13 PM

AAAAAAH! a ray of light.

"will I have to swear allegiance to the king

No, just to the Tories."

So you accept Corbinistan will never happen. Thank God for small mercies.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Mr Red
Date: 25 Dec 17 - 04:48 AM

Perhaps there will be a resurgence of compromise and the Lib-Dems will get in...............










I'll get my cloak of invisibility


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Dec 17 - 09:10 AM

There was no need in the world the colour needed to change in the first place. Passports of countries in the EU can be whatever colour a country wishes. Here is a Croatian example, where they retained the original colour.

Changing the colour to Maroon was just another of the daft changes Margaret Thatcher imposed on us, brought in for some weird reason when she took the country into the EU without bothering to have a referendum, unlike Ireland,for example.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 Dec 17 - 10:04 AM

the daft changes Margaret Thatcher imposed

What a gal! Shame she isn't around to cavort with Trump like she did with Pinochet.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Dec 17 - 03:45 PM

Eeeeeeeeuuuuwwwww!


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 26 Dec 17 - 01:53 PM

From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Dec 17 - 09:10 AM

Changing the colour to Maroon was just another of the daft changes Margaret Thatcher imposed on us, brought in for some weird reason when she took the country into the EU without bothering to have a referendum,


How was it Margaret Thatcher? The UK joined the EU on 1 Jan 1973 (Ted Heath was P.M.), and voted to remain as part of the EU in a referendum 5 June 1975 (Harold Wilson was PM)
Margaret Thatcher became PM 4 May 1979


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 26 Dec 17 - 01:58 PM

Mrs Thatcher was PM when the colour of the passports changed in 1988.
But that had nothing to do with 'taking us into the EU'.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Mr Red
Date: 27 Dec 17 - 04:35 AM

she took us in

well some of us..................


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 09:03 AM

McG of H

Changing the colour to Maroon was just another of the daft changes Margaret Thatcher imposed on us

Nigel P - 26 Dec 17 - 01:53 PM

How was it Margaret Thatcher?

Nigel P - 26 Dec 17 - 01:58 PM

Mrs Thatcher was PM when the colour of the passports changed in 1988.

Sorry Nigel but surely you answered your own question 5 minutes after you asked it. Was your first question rhetorical or a knee jerk reaction?

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Iains
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 10:48 AM

" just another of the daft changes Margaret Thatcher imposed on us,"
She strongly believed in a market economy and survival of the fittest.
Labour always borrowed its way out of trouble leaving a wrecked economy each time for the Tories to sort out.
Socialism can only spend money(other people's) It has not quite got the hang of creating it.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 12:56 PM

Iains - as I said earler, remember it's very soon to be 2018...

Funny old tories and their quaint ideas and prejudices about socialism...!!!???

In fact tories/daily mail readers are probably amongst the only folks who cling onto that word as if their lives depend on it...????


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Iains
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 01:06 PM

PFR. I could not care less how you wish to label the honourable tory party. Just so long as a distinction is recognised between them and the whinging, remoaner corbynistas.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 01:54 PM

Survival of the fittest what? Fittest yuppie? Fittest spiv? Fittest newly-unregulated greedy banker? Fittest tax-evader? Fittest non-dom?


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Iains
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 02:26 PM

Survival of the fittest employers. Those that ran at a profit, unlike the mining, car and steel industry. Strangely enough employers that cannot run at a profit go bust, unless government continuously subsidizes them. This is why Beeching sorted out the railways, Macgregor the steel industry and coal had been declining for decades before Thatcher arrived. In fact the ex labour mp Robens presided over a large part of the coal industry death throes long before Maggie came on the scene.
It is also conveniently overlooked that similar declines, for steel, also occurred in the Rhur Valley and Ohio. Was Maggie Thatcher responsible for that too?
So nothing to do with spivs at all. It is all in your mind.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 08:16 PM

From: Dave the Gnome - PM
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 09:03 AM

Sorry Nigel but surely you answered your own question 5 minutes after you asked it. Was your first question rhetorical or a knee jerk reaction?


No, my question was based on MGoH's assertation that "Changing the colour to Maroon was just another of the daft changes Margaret Thatcher imposed on us, brought in for some weird reason when she took the country into the EU

I repeat, for those unable to understand, Margaret Thatcher did not 'take the country into the EU'.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 08:26 PM

Previous post, for 'assertation' read 'assertion'.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Mr Red
Date: 31 Dec 17 - 05:37 AM

FWIW smoke is - by and large - more blue than maroon.

Another irony is that with Brexit (which Corbin favours BTW) we will all be marooned.

Time will tell. And how!


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: mayomick
Date: 02 Jan 18 - 05:13 PM

The European Union was formally established when the Maastricht Treaty came into force on 1 November 1993 – John Major was the British Prime Minister at the time .


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: mayomick
Date: 02 Jan 18 - 05:49 PM

Steve Shaw Maybe the cost of the birth certs and postage puts the price up ,but an Irish passport costs about the same as the UK one does -80.
Jim Carroll
"no impact surveys have been carried out on the effect of Brexit"
Jim, that is what David Davis claims but in another Brexit thread you quoted Michael Heseltine in the House of Lords suggesting that the UK gvt has commissioned impact surveys but doesn't want to publish them.That may be closer to the truth .
In a letter to the Times last month Heseltine wrote : "We know that nearly 60 sectoral appraisals have been concluded, that they are too damaging to publish and yet are asked to believe that no summary exists."


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: mayomick
Date: 02 Jan 18 - 06:19 PM

The cost of an Irish passport is 80 euros - the euro symbol didn't appear when I posted earlier .Damned Brexiteeers must be taking over mudcat maybe .......mumble mumble!


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Jan 18 - 09:18 PM

It's not just the cost of the passport, mayomick. It's a load of various admin fees on top. It would cost me not much short of 1000 euros to become an Irish citizen. I believe there are moves in Ireland to cut the price by half.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Thompson
Date: 03 Jan 18 - 03:45 AM

Can some Brexiteers explain what the advantages are?

A couple of my English and living-in-England friends voted Leave, and when I asked, jaw dropped, "Why???" they said it was the immigration. This puzzled me, because the immigration they were mostly talking about was not from the EU but from former British colonies.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Jan 18 - 05:33 AM

Tall order there, Thompson. I suspect you may have thrown the cat among the pigeons!

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Thompson
Date: 03 Jan 18 - 05:57 AM

Just the facts, ma'am, just the facts please.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Jan 18 - 06:08 AM

I might have voted for brexit if it kept cats and pigeons out...!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Jan 18 - 06:27 AM

Trouble is, Thompson, the facts are too easily interpreted to suit whoever you are talking to. Take immigration as an example. Someone supporting Brexit will tell you that limiting it will benefit the country. Someone wanting to remain will tell you that a) we need that immigration to function and b), as you have already said, a lot of it is from outside the EU anyway.

Which is why this thread is still going!

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Jan 18 - 06:43 AM

All the talk of restricting immigration by leavers was bullshit. More than half of our immigration was from outside the EU, which we could have controlled but didn't. And we might be able to "control our borders" apropos of letting people in, but, as we're already finding out, we can't "control our borders" apropos of people leaving. It won't be long before the shortages of key skilled workers will pitch this country into crisis. We are slowly committing national suicide. Whether we can be rescued will be a matter of whether brainless little-Englander hubris can be trumped by common sense. If it can't, we're doomed.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 03 Jan 18 - 08:48 AM

All the talk of restricting immigration by leavers was bullshit.
I take it the intended meaning was "All the talk (by 'leavers') of restricting immigration was bullshit."

This from someone who often claims a superiority in his use of the English language.
The purpose of language is the clear transmission of ideas.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Raggytash
Date: 03 Jan 18 - 08:59 AM

Bloody Hell Nigel, your scrapping the barrel a bit aren't you.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Jan 18 - 09:03 AM

I'm trying to makes batches of hummus and to chop veg and to negotiate new kitchen windows between postings. And you have yet to apologise for confusing Ed Balls and Ed Miliband concerning stammering, Nigel. Cast out thy plank.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: bobad
Date: 03 Jan 18 - 09:05 AM

Scrapping

verb (used with object), scrapped, scrapping.

to make into scraps or scrap; break up:
to scrap old cars.

to discard as useless, worthless, or ineffective:
He urged that we scrap the old method of teaching mathematics


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 03 Jan 18 - 09:10 AM

Steve,
Surely it was you who linked Ed Miliband with stammering, whether accurately or not.

I just pointed out your hypocrisy when commenting on disabilities.

The fact that Ed Miliband may not actually have a stammer still gives no reason to link him to your 'joke' about pandas. It was a complete non-sequitur.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Raggytash
Date: 03 Jan 18 - 09:21 AM

Quite right Bobad, consider P'ing off.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: bobad
Date: 03 Jan 18 - 09:37 AM

your scrapping

You're surely.............lol.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Jan 18 - 09:42 AM

Don't be stupid, Nigel. We all know you were confused. Maybe from now on we should put "stammer" on the banned-word list. St*mm*r. There! And kindly stop crapping the barrel.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Raggytash
Date: 03 Jan 18 - 09:54 AM

Bobad, I've just scrolled through your 20 most recent posts.

Not one of them refers to the subject matter of the thread.

They include such gems as:

"Fools seldom differ"

"And here we have the definition of irony, folks"

"Nah, you're not worth ranting about."

"Heheh gotcha!"

"You wouldn't know it from our resident bellyachers"

"You are trolling."



Scintillating stuff eh ?


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: bobad
Date: 03 Jan 18 - 10:08 AM

Bloody Hell Nigel, your [sic] scrapping [sic] the barrel a bit aren't you.

Quite right Bobad, consider P'ing off.

Bobad, I've just scrolled through your 20 most recent posts.

Not one of them refers to the subject matter of the thread.


What's that old adage about people living in glass houses, again?


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Jan 18 - 10:18 AM

What's that old adage about people living in glass houses, again?

People who babble about living in glass houses should fuck off?

:D tG


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 03 Jan 18 - 10:21 AM

It's:
"People who live in glass houses shouldn't undress with the light on"


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Jan 18 - 10:38 AM

The tribal chieftain put his ceremonial chair upstairs in his mud hut. It fell through the bedroom floor.


Which goes to show that people in grass houses shouldn't stow thrones.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: bobad
Date: 03 Jan 18 - 02:12 PM

People who babble about living in glass houses should fuck off?

People who tell others to fuck off should fuck off 😂😂😂


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Iains
Date: 03 Jan 18 - 03:07 PM

Meanwhile. What shade of true Tory blue have we all decided on.
After all, maroon is so pass?!


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Jan 18 - 03:31 PM

That has nothing to do with glass houses boo. You seem to have missed the point. Maybe it is time you...


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Jan 18 - 03:31 PM

Changed hands!

:D tG


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: bobad
Date: 03 Jan 18 - 04:12 PM

Changed hands!

That is just soooooooo clever, you slay me with your sophisticated wit 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Jan 18 - 04:35 PM

I know. Us Brits are the masters of sophisticated wit. You just need to look at the Carry on films and Benny Hill.

:D tG


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Raggytash
Date: 03 Jan 18 - 04:48 PM

Iains, I don't often comment on other peoples grammar, dontcha know, but the think the word you were looking for is "passe" not "pass"

Just saying like !


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Jan 18 - 05:52 PM

Dave, are you accusing boobs of being ambiphibious?


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Iains
Date: 04 Jan 18 - 02:10 AM

Raggytash It may have escaped your notice that keystrokes entered correctly can change when posted. Are you following your fellow packrat shaw and starting to attempt to correct grammar and spelling now? You are getting sadder by the moment. I suggest you practise corrections on offerings from jimmie the ranter. It will offer endless scope.

If you post passe correctly, with the accent, it will be changed even though preview shows it as entered. That is beyond my control.
Stupid boy!


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Jan 18 - 08:32 AM

I have not seen it but am willing to give it a try...

pass?

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Jan 18 - 08:33 AM

Hehehe - Maybe mudcat is giving us secret instructions?

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Jan 18 - 08:42 AM

errrmmm.. so... are we talking about 'passe ports' now....???

oh well.. such are the whims of fashion.. "Darling, maroon was soooo last year..!!!"

Fashionistas may soon predict blue will be outmoded by summer,
and autumn passports will be mauve with metallic gold highlights....


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Raggytash
Date: 04 Jan 18 - 08:53 AM

Simple thing Iains, omit the accent and then you can at least spell the word correctly.

I don't seem to be experiencing the problems that others have with "translation" from my keyboard to the Mudcat. Having said that watch this go pear shaped on me!.

I only mentioned it in the first place because of continual sniping at spelling by certain individuals.

I knew what you meant, as I suppose some of your co-contributors also know what is meant, by posts from myself and others.

PS Don't lose any sleep over it.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Jan 18 - 08:54 AM

Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months

Oscar Wilde.

:D tG


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Jan 18 - 09:01 AM

If change of colour is all about independence and autonomy,
then bollocks to nationalistic identity,
we should each and all each be allowed to design our own personalised individual passport covers...

.. maybe a new business opportunity for Funky Pigeon dot com.....????


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Thompson
Date: 04 Jan 18 - 09:28 AM

Could I repeat my question? What's going to be better for Britain outside the EU?

(What's going to be better for the EU without Britain? Britain in general could be said to have dragged the EU to the right; the British also pushed for the eastern Europeans to be allowed to join - in general a more conservative group (see Hungary… shudder) than the rest of Europe. Will Europe be better without Britain? Hard to say. The people running Europe now are very different from the idealists who started it, dreaming of a Europe without war, trading freely, with shared wealth and fair laws…)


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Thompson
Date: 04 Jan 18 - 09:52 AM

And Ireland - surely it's obvious that Britain would be far better off without Northern Ireland, "the Irish Question" having dragged out of British politics for hundreds of years and had a huge influence on what happened in Britain.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Jan 18 - 09:53 AM

What's going to be better for Britain outside the EU?

Nothing at all.

What's going to be better for the EU without Britain?

They will not have to put up with Nigel Farage.

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Mr Red
Date: 04 Jan 18 - 11:48 AM

We are slowly committing national suicide.

Nah, we will catch man 'flu and decide to go to bed with Honey & Lemon for a while.

When we emerge - science, robots or plebs will have taken up the slack and we will start complaining it is not as good as it was.

Cost? Growth! (or lack of it) - It is already predicted: GDP, wages, food, status.

Unintended consequences? Nah! Unconsidered consequences. Like air-traffic control - who's in charge? And while we work that out there will be a plane crash, there would have been one anyway, but this one will be at the feet of the controlling organisation (or lack of it).


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Iains
Date: 04 Jan 18 - 05:57 PM

"Simple thing Iains, omit the accent and then you can at least spell the word correctly."

"If you post passe correctly, with the accent, it will be changed even though preview shows it as entered. That is beyond my control."

Or to put it simply for simple minds, If the text changes between preview and submission the fault cannot be either recognised or corrected.

Raggytash you appear to have a comprehension problem.

"I only mentioned it in the first place because of continual sniping at spelling by certain individuals."

Why so coy about the subject? As we both full know, the biggest offender in this regard is your fellow mudrat shaw.
Would you like a few examples?

But he is a bit of a weasel.e.g.
Oct 20, 2017 - Steve Shaw, 30 Sep 12 - 08:17 AM .... I don't care in the least about mistakes in spelling in blogs, fora, personal emails, texts and the like. ..

WHAT A CLOWN!


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Jan 18 - 08:09 PM

Huh? I didn't post at that time of day on either of those dates (and your post was very confused in any case). Perhaps it's been a long day. I suggest a lie down. Don't let that weasel bite your bollocks, what there is of them. :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Jan 18 - 08:23 PM

Oh gosh, I was wrong about 30 Sept '12! But the post I posted on that date at the time of day in question went thus:

"The best instances are those in which the pompous trip up. We had a senior English teacher at one school I taught at who was fond of putting notices on the staff room notice board which were written in unnecessarily-lofty tones. One of her favourite words was "liaise," which she always spelled "liase."

At another school, one of my colleagues (Mr W, who had better remain nameless!) was indignant to find that someone had scrawled "W..... is a bastard" on the wall outside his room, but misspelling his name, missing out a letter. He promptly found a matching pen and inserted the missing letter."

Now perhaps our sorry friend can tell us how that relates to the mean-spirited point he was failing to make in his post. Can't see it meself. Still, it's surprising that sense of humour bypasses are still so easily available on our beleaguered NHS!


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Mr Red
Date: 05 Jan 18 - 03:41 AM

I think hash codes below 255 work. Let us see if the preview mimics with the post.

passé

eg typing passé see the page that would help

FWIW Iains - I read it, and mentally interpreted as intended.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Iains
Date: 05 Jan 18 - 04:28 AM

Mr Red. Thanks for the link. I am still learning what to place between < and >. Mudcat is the only place I visit that requires such manipulation. Most places a construction in MS Word can be polished proofread and then pasted.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Stanron
Date: 05 Jan 18 - 04:59 AM

Iains wrote: Most places a construction in MS Word can be polished proofread and then pasted

I use a simple text editor and all errors are mine alone, but that's on a desktop using Linux. A lot of problems seem to come from either hand held devices or MS Windows 10.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Jan 18 - 05:00 AM

Thanks for that Hash Code Generator Page link, Mr. R. Very useful indeed.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 05 Jan 18 - 09:18 AM

Iains wrote: Most places a construction in MS Word can be polished proofread and then pasted

As it can on Mudcat:
Paste from MS Word into the reply box, then:
Below the reply box click on 'preview' before hitting submit.
You can then see how your post will appear, and make any corrections in the reply box before previewing again.
Only hit submit (without preview) once you are happy with the result.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Jan 18 - 09:27 AM

Preview shows what you have pasted in including any special characters. When you hit submit the special character gremlins take over and you may not got what you previewed.

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 05 Jan 18 - 09:50 AM

Sneaky. I just pasted 'passe' into the reply box, and preview showed it correctly with accent.
I then hit preview a second time and it showed 'Pass?'

It seems 'three times is the trick'.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Jan 18 - 09:53 AM

Told you - special character gremlins at their worst!

:D tG


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: DMcG
Date: 05 Jan 18 - 10:05 AM

You can't reliably do it that way, I am afraid. You need to use &egrave; for è and &eacute; for é.

Previewing does not allow for the fact thw characters also need to be stored and retrieved from the database.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 05 Jan 18 - 10:37 AM

Funnily enough, though I'm not a xenophobic nationalistic brexiteer,
I can't think of any reason why I would even ever bother trying to type & post French, or any other Euro accents...?????

PFR - failed French O level in 1975.....

Nothing political to do with it,
it's just i've always been shit at learning foreign languages...


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: DMcG
Date: 05 Jan 18 - 10:44 AM

The difficulties of such things might explain in part why there are few Greek, Russian or Arabic posts here!

I posted a bit of maths recently. Getting those characters right was 'an opportunity'...


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Jan 18 - 10:45 AM

It's mostly fine to type foreign words used in English without their accents. Passe is grand, as is cliche. Stress ye not! Papier mache, no accent. Cafe, no accent. You keep accents for proper names, including people's, cities' and countries', and in order to avoid confusion: Brussels pate (not even gonna try...) should have an acute at the end to avoid confusion with bald pate, but no circumflex over the a. This is not prescriptive, as we can all do what we like as ever, just a reflection of the way things are going. One day we'll regard getting all emotional about accents as so passe.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Iains
Date: 05 Jan 18 - 11:04 AM

" This is not prescriptive, as we can all do what we like as ever, just a reflection of the way things are going."


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 05 Jan 18 - 11:14 AM

...so, whatever happened to "Esperanto"...!!!???


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Jan 18 - 11:19 AM

Tonto go Tronto teach Esperanto, Kemosabe.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Jan 18 - 01:27 PM

Funnily enough my Russian grandad, as well as being an Orthodox priest, was a great advocate of Esperanto. I never understood why!

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Mr Red
Date: 06 Jan 18 - 11:45 AM

Preview shows what you have pasted in including any special characters.

That is because it is the Mudcat JavaScript/PHP (while on Mudcat) in conjunction with your "PC/Browser set up" that is in control. Once it stores on Mudcat I have to assume Max has done some encoding/compression and that only allows a limited subset of characters, some of which are emojis.

My point about hashcodes below 255 (=one byte)

But I believe there are many codes above that that Mudcat can use but not all. The thing about 255 is that it covers the accents of most (if not all) Western European fonts.

And as for trying to use the right accented characters - there are times when the meaning is important. And we can all see when a post is not read as meant and someone kicks off on his interpretation (he - because the ladies don't seem to do that). But it is incumbent on the poster to try and help the afflicted. My preference is to at least try (E&OE).


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Jan 18 - 04:45 PM

"I repeat, for those unable to understand, Margaret Thatcher did not 'take the country into the EU'."


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Jan 18 - 05:08 PM

No Nigel, I'm afraid you are wrong. The EU did not exist until the Maastricht Treaty was created in 1993, and by signing it, Margaret Thatcher took us into it, without any kind of public consultation, in the same way that Edward Heath took us into the Common Market. It wasn't until Wilson replaced him that people had a chance to vote on whether to remain, which they did by a very much larger majority than that in the 2016 Brexit referendum.

The distinction is not pedantic. Leaving the EU does not have to mean leaving the Single Market, as is demonstrated by Norway. We did not have an opportunity to vote about doing that, the referendum in 2016 merely indicated a narrow majority (among those voting) for leaving the EU, but indicated nothing about our views on the Single Market.

I voted to Remain, but if I had had an option to vote for leaving the EU but remaining in the Single Market I would very likely have voted for that. I have no doubt that those who voted to leave included some who shared that preference.lm


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Iains
Date: 07 Jan 18 - 05:10 PM

M of H. It is a long hard furrow to plow at times!


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Jan 18 - 04:48 AM

Leaving the EU does not have to mean leaving the Single Market

We were told in terms, unequivocally, before the referendum that that was exactly what we were voting for.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Jan 18 - 05:06 AM

What's this bollocks doing here in the "passport thread"..
you got a separate brexit thread for that overheated shite throwing....

Or is 'someone' trying to get this one closed down...?????


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Iains
Date: 08 Jan 18 - 06:18 AM

I think all passports should be rainbow coloured to recognise the LGBT contingent.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Jan 18 - 06:39 AM

I think all passports and borders should cease to exist....

But until then I'd prefer a universal smart identity card..

Maybe even a battery powered chip implant under the skin of my arse cheek....

I'd be happy presenting that to border control petty officials...


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Iains
Date: 08 Jan 18 - 12:27 PM

Pfr. The downside of chips with everything, even RFID chips, is that when cash is totally replaced by electronic transactions, then the sensible person will be forced to exist with a permanent overdraft in case the PTB try to get clever.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Jan 18 - 12:38 PM

permanent overdraft....???
I'm a guitar player.. I was born with one...!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Jan 18 - 12:41 PM

..anyway.. I'm surprised some of the more extreme brexiteers
haven't already demanded we all get nationality barcodes and serial numbers tattooed on our forearms...


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Jan 18 - 01:22 PM

....which shows your ignorance and contempt for the majority of people in this country.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Iains
Date: 08 Jan 18 - 01:25 PM

Pfr. I think most who voted for brexit voted to retain freedoms. It is those happy to remain that welcome Orwell's Big Brother and the continued growth of EUania and its concomitant loss of civil liberties and increased surveillance.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Jan 18 - 01:33 PM

If you say so...

There are other views available.....


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Jan 18 - 01:37 PM

Have a look around Europe and its lurch to the far Right.
Far Right parties on the rise everywhere.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Jan 18 - 01:44 PM

Below is a review of the outgoing year.
January: Far-Right Leaders Meet in Germany
Leaders of Europe?s far right, including Marine Le Pen of France?s National Front and Geert Wilders of the Dutch Party for Freedom (PVV), convened in Germany?s Koblenz on January 21 under the auspices of Europe of Nations and Freedom (ENF) ?the smallest political group in the European Parliament.
At least 3,000 protested against xenophobia as the meeting took place. Speakers hailed the election of US President Donald Trump and Britain?s Brexit vote as victories for their cause.
Le Pen told attendees: ?In 2016, the Anglo-Saxon world woke up ? In 2017, I am sure that it will be the year of the continental peoples rising up,? she said.

March: Far Right Boost in Hungary, the Netherlands
In Hungary, Janos Ader was reelected as president on March 13.
He is a member of the ruling conservative Fidesz party, which has shifted further right, in part due to a campaign against billionaire investor and philanthropist George Soros, whose Open Society Foundations (OSF) charity advocates for greater acceptance of refugees and migrants.
In the Netherlands, the March 15 general election saw Geert Wilders? PVV party win the second-largest share of votes with more than 13% overall and a five-seat gain on the 2012 election. Mark Rutte, the Dutch prime minister, held on to his role.

May: Le Pen Eyes French Presidency
France?s National Front leader Marine Le Pen made it to the second and final round of the French general election on May 7.
The party took more than 10 million votes ?a record performance? but Emmanuel Macron won with 66%.

September: Alternative for Germany Surges
Germany?s Alternative for Germany (AfD), which promised to ban all mosques and criminalize wearing the veil, emerged as the country?s third biggest political force, winning 12.6% of the popular vote on

September 24.
Angela Merkel?s center-right Christian Democratic Union party secured 33%, down almost 9%from the 2013 ballot.
?Had Merkel scored 3 or 4% more we would all be talking about the end of populism and the new energy of liberal democracy,? Mudde said.

October: Gains in Austria
Austria?s Freedom Party (FPO), led by Heinz-Christian Strache, won 26% of the vote, becoming the third largest party, in the country?s October 15 election.
It entered government in December, forming a coalition with 31-year-old Chancellor Sebastian Kurz and his Austrian People?s Party.
Both parties campaigned for tougher immigration rules and the deportation of asylum seekers.

November: Fascists Join March in Poland
Some 60,000 people, including nationalists and fascists, took part in Warsaw?s Independence March on November 11.
https://financialtribune.com/articles/international/78564/europe-s-far-right-leaning-in-2017


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Jan 18 - 01:46 PM

..oh well that's alright then...
Where do I get the bootboy neck and forhead tattoos, I've already got a shaved head.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Jan 18 - 01:48 PM

Keith - now you got that off your chest, please back to passports in this thread..


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Jan 18 - 01:55 PM

PFR, just responding to your ludicrous and insulting,
brexiteers haven't already demanded we all get nationality barcodes and serial numbers tattooed on our forearms...

Have you any sensible point to make?


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Jan 18 - 02:16 PM

Keith - oooh.. you do make us chuckle...

Btw... yes I do, nearly every post of mine is deadly serious and 'sensible'..
below the jokey surface lurks a subtext of pained points of darkest despair at human stupidity and cruelty...

.. and like the best of us.. I also like fart and knob jokes...


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Jan 18 - 05:26 PM

But what has changing the colour of your passports got to do with views about Brexit?
EU passports can be any colour under the sun that a nation's government wishes them to be.

Maggie Thatcher's decision in 1988 to change the colour of the British passport to maroon was made before the EU had actually come into existence. No one made her do it. Maybe she liked the colour.

Regardless of what happens as regards membership of the EU, Britain has every right to reverse that colour change. I'd be in favour of there being a blue British passport, just as I'd be happy to see my Irish (and EU) passport go back to being green.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Jan 18 - 05:31 PM

My application for Polish citizenship is progressing. I have no reason to believe it will not go ahead and if it does I shall be entitled to a Polish, and therefore EU, passport. Dual citizenship. Best of both worlds :-)

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Jan 18 - 06:27 PM

Triple citizenship actually, because you'll still count as a British citizen. But with the same right to live anywhere in Europe that the others will be losing.


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 06:31 AM

Just heard back that sadly it is not to be. Not sure why yet. Maybe my Russian Grandfather means that my Dad was not actually Polish!

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 07:44 AM

DTG - As I mentioned in previous threads, when I was 18 my mum revealed my 'true' ancestry on her side,
and I discovered I had a Jewish grandad of Eastern European decent
[ who I would never have any contact with, to avoid family upset ].

All my mum knew was that he was probably born in England,
but his parents came here escaping a pogram.
They might have been Russian or Polish.

History makes such details vague, and ever shifting national borders can become meaningless.

Much later, a few years before she died, my sister became an early recreational internet adopter,
and hooked up with a Jewish family tree network.
So now I know fairly certainly that they were Polish, but....????


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 07:49 AM

I am trying another approach. Watch this space :-)

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Raggytash
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 08:04 AM

If it's any conciliation Dave, when I was a teenager a friend of mine went to try and join the RAF.

He was turned down because his father was Polish.

His father had arrived in the UK to join the RAF and served with it for several years.


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