BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?

Subject: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Mr Red
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 07:20 AM

My take on it:

It is a non issue - the issuing of blue UK passports that is.

Designed to pander to the Brexit bullies while obfuscating generally when there are real issues that should be debated NOW before we crash through a myriad roadblocks.

Plan? What plan?

Blue passport seems to be the only plan generated in advance instead of reacting to events.

A non-existent assessment anyone?

Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Raggytash
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 07:26 AM

An utterly trivial bit of nonsense to pander to the small mindedness of a proportion of Brexiteers. I'm only surprised they are not Red, White AND Blue.

Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 07:38 AM

Some of the brexit bullies who donated enormous sums of money to the brexit fiasco, will have fallen foul of section 24 of the Inheritance Act 1984 - I laugh!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 07:47 AM

Costings.. who pays...???

Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 07:49 AM

..for this tory true blue petty symbolism..

Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 07:52 AM

Maybe it's the colour everybody will be feeling when these pricks finally achieve the Little Rng;and they are seeking!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Iains
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 08:03 AM

Tory blue. How could it be any other colour?

Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 08:09 AM

"Tory blue. How could it be any other colour?"
True enough, taken the number of them up to their uxters in porn
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Iains
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 08:14 AM

MISS, MIss! someone is not paying attention in class.

Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 08:27 AM

We can not continue to have EU passports when we leave EU.
It had to change.
Blue is the colour we had before we adopted EU passports.
What is the problem?

Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: DMcG
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 08:43 AM

There is no problem, though it seems there will be a period of burgundy passports without the "European Union" wording on the cover because the contract award and leaving the EU will not probanly not coincide.

What is mad, though, is the excessive celebration by The Sun and others as if this represents some sort of achievement. Whereas on fact it is of a purely emotional significance qith no practical.impact at all.

Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Raggytash
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 09:06 AM

The delicious irony is that the new passports may well be printed in Germany or France.

Yeh let's take back control!!!

Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: mayomick
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 09:14 AM

According to the Guardian today , biometric passports were imposed by the US on the UK via the EU. Maybe (not) the blue passports will free British people from the obligation to have their eyes scanned post-Brexit?
"The irony is that the UK could have had a blue passport while an EU member. EU member state Croatia currently has a blue passport, after all. In any case, the "iconic" blue passport was imposed from abroad back in 1920 ,thanks to the the League of Nations.https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/dec/22/blue-passports-taking-back-control-imposed-league-of-nations-burgundy-passport-eu

Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 09:30 AM

errrm.. I just payed for a new 10 year burgundy passport back in the summer..

Thank f@ck I'm not a brexiteer... I'd be livid..
my face would be turning an 'orrible hue of burgundy in pitiful bitter rage...!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 09:32 AM

A pathetic sop to the feeble-minded. And a deliberate, deceitful distraction from the real issues which the BrexShitters have dumped us in.

Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 09:33 AM

"Blue is the colour" - of my true love's cheese!
"biometric passports"
Great opportunity for the State to electronically tag us all to make sure we behave ourselves
Then they will be able to make a list of those who don't and pass it on to Trump for future reference - just like the UN delegates who voted against his Jerusalem takeover
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 09:42 AM

Blue passport.. sir / madam.. move right ahead to the VIP desk at the front of the the queue...

yeah.. in their wet dreams...!!!

Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 10:20 AM

WTF???? Who gives a shit WHAT color the cover of a passport is?

You pommy buggers are starting to get as idiotic as the U.S. Trumpist contingent.

One would think there were more important issues to engage yourselves with!

Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 10:28 AM

Greg,
WTF???? Who gives a shit WHAT color the cover of a passport is?

For once I agree with you. This in a non issue.
This question should have been asked when our ruling elite decreed we must change to the Burgundy EU passport.

It was entirely unnecessary and had the people been consulted I am sure they would have declined.

Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 10:33 AM

Funnily enough... I'm sure most of them wouldn't have given a toss...!!!

Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 10:36 AM

I agree, but I think they would have objected to unnecessary change.

Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 10:45 AM

yeah.. like how a good half of the nation currently object to unnecessary change leaving EU
just to satisfy the bonkers agenda of deranged right wingers..

Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 11:08 AM

Wonder whether those taxpayers who have to foot the bill will worry that the passport change will cost the taxpayer £500m
Jiiim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 01:41 PM

It has to change come Brexit. No choice.
Last time there was no need to change it. That cost was completely unnecessary. I object to that.

Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 02:02 PM

"It has to change come Brexit. No choice."Tge point exactly - ano
ther Little England burden for the takpayer

Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 02:03 PM

Premature ejacultion, but I'm sure someone will explain it to you

Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 03:05 PM

i agree with mr red

Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: peteglasgow
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 03:36 PM

til now i have always thought this brexit shit was so stupid it could never really happen. now i'm beginning to think i shouldn't have underestimated the stupidity of the english people. you may get your stupid braindead little englander, wet dream wishes.....you idiots, you idiots.....

Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: DMcG
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 03:22 AM

As i said over on the "Life post Brexit" thread, the #pound;490 million is misleading: that is the cost of producing passports for 11.5 years and looks aa if it is entirely funded by the #pound,72 or so people pay when they get a new passport.

The actual cost of changing to blue is unreported but likely to be a few tens of thousands depending on the approval process.

Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 03:27 AM

What was the cost of unnecessarily changing to an EU passport?
At least this change is necessary.

Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 03:29 AM

"The actual cost of changing to blue is unreported but likely to be a few tens of thousands depending on the approval process."
Like all Government promises - whatever they claim now, it is bound to be significantly more when the time comes - when has this ever not been the case?
It's a little like the fact thnat no impact surveys have been carried out on the effect of Brexit - as Stephen Fry is fond of saying - "nobody knows"
All we do know for certain is who will bear the burden - go see who benefits and who loses over in the US with the new tax awards

Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: DMcG
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 03:43 AM

No official is saying 'tens of thousands' as far as I am aware, Jim. It is an estimate I made based on various design changes I have taken part in, but I have specific knowledge of passporting at all. What I mainly intended to indicate was it would a significant sum in its own right (if thought of in terms of man years at a minimum salary for example) but compared to the £:490 million is minute.

Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: DMcG
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 03:44 AM

*have NO specific knowledge...

Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 03:47 AM

And, if they had not been unnecessarily changed in the first place, this second cost would not have arisen.
That is what people should be railing against.

Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: DMcG
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 03:53 AM

The design is updated every five years anyway: it is nothing to do with joining the EU or leaving EU. It is mostly about changes to make forgery more difficult.

Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 04:26 AM

There was a guy from HM Passport Office on TV on Friday, who said that:-

1) The new blue passport will not be introduced until the current contract for supply expires in October 2019.

2) The only cost will be the cost of the new contract, GBP 400,000-ish over the life of the contract, which would have occurred anyway as a part of the renewal of the contract, even if the passport was not being changed.

3) people's existing EU passports will continue to be valid until the expiry date shown in the passport - it will not be necessary to renew your passport in Oct 2019, although some people may choose to do so, at the standard charge of 72 GBP for a new document.

So...it appears that there is no cost directly attributable to the change from the burgundy EU colour to the dark blue U.K. colour.

The only question the man failed to answer (I'd guess because he doesn't yet know) was concerning which queue holders of the burgundy EU passport should join at airports and ports after we leave the EU in March 2019 - 'EU Citizens' or 'All Other Nationalities'.

Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 04:33 AM

So this really is a non-issue.
Why have we given it a dedicated thread and agonised about it on the Brexit thread too?

Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: DMcG
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 04:40 AM

Because papers like "The Sun" and some politicians want to make a big thing of it as if it is some soet of achievement.

Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Iains
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 04:47 AM

De La Rue has the contract to produce british passports until 2020. Passports have been subject to constant change since their introduction. Most recent changes revolve around increased security.

This is an argument over nothing.

Threats by the EU to increase waiting times for uk passport holders can easily be countered by adopting the same tactics. Stupidity is best countered by additional stupidity.

Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Raggytash
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 04:59 AM

An there, Ladies and Gentlemen, speaks an expert.

Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: DMcG
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 05:03 AM

I was perhaps a bit swift in my last response. This IS a significant change, but it is not FINANCIALLY significant. The business of which queue we enter - and it will not be the EU citizens since we won't be EU citizens - is all to do with Brexit and not the passport, and especially not its colour.

No, the real significance of the change is all about the sense of identity. It is intended to support/promote an 'us and them' mentality, for exactly the same reason the burgundy was trying to promote that 'we have common interests' with the rest of Europe.

Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Iains
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 05:14 AM

"An there, Ladies and Gentlemen, speaks an expert."

from the expert

Wots up raggy? too much christmas spirit?

Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 05:37 AM

"No, the real significance of the change is all about the sense of identity. It is intended to support/promote an 'us and them' mentality, for exactly the same reason the burgundy was trying to promote that 'we have common interests' with the rest of Europe."

Yes, I understand that, DMcG - I was simply reporting what the HMPO guy was asked, and what his answers were (or weren't).

AFAIC, it's all bollocks and, if the colour of the UK passport is all some people have to concern themselves over, they must lead very blissfull lives.

Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: DMcG
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 05:47 AM

That's what I understood you to mean, BMW. I was more trying to correct an earlier post of my own where I could be read as saying this is unimportant. The colour is unimportant. Encouraging division is not.

I work with someone who is married to a woman from France. They have brought their children up to speak both languages. So, the day after the Brexit vote, she happened to be in a local supermarket and spoke French to her children. Whereupon she was verbally set on and given a torrent of abuse of the 'get back you came from' variety.

Anything that makes that sort of abuse more common is objectionable. Hence while the colour is no interest to me at all in itself, I am concerned it might encourage people who are happy to abuse strangers like that.

Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 06:10 AM

Sorry, DMcG, my misunderstanding. And I'm right there with you on the rest of your post.

One of the things I enjoy from my burgundy EU-British passport, whenever I use it, is the feeling of belonging to a wide group of nations, and comradeship with the citizens of those widely-diverse countries. Something the Union-Jack-boxers and Blue-Passport brigade probably don't understand.

Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: DMcG
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 06:34 AM

Just noticing we seem to be in a strange, looking-glass sort of world where those who welcome the change of colour are saying it is unimportant, while those who don't care what the colour is think it is important. I think the Gnomish mantra is called for!

Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Raggytash
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 06:50 AM

Lewis Brandon, the Home Office Minister who announced the new passport said part of the change was to create a new national identity.

If that is the case can I have an English passport please, because that is my nationality. I'm English, I was born in England, I'm not Scottish (although I believe there may be traces a few generations back) I'm not Welsh and I don't come from Northern Ireland.

So English passport for me.

Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 07:35 AM

Fortunately I have just renewed mine. Because my identity is of an EU citizen born in the UK. Small minded bigots want to take my identity away,but I will be fighting hard by all means possible to retain it.

Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Mr Red
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 07:46 AM

Why have we given it a dedicated thread and agonised about it on the Brexit thread too?

To highlight that it is a smokescreen. To quote another outfit that liked smokescreen

"is this a good day to release bad news?". Except it is self-generated in this case.

Subject: RE: BS: blue passports - political smokescreen?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 07:53 AM

I've considered becoming an Irish citizen in order to keep my EU citizenship. I'm entitled due to my family history on Mother's side. But the buggers over the Irish Sea want a fortune off me!