BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go missing

Subject: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 07:15 AM

LUCK ACCIDENT or WHAT?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 07:49 AM

many motives, many players
who could be the betrayers

Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 08:00 AM

Definitely what. Probably suffixed with the f***!

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: bobad
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 08:07 AM

Relax, most have been found and returned to the archives. It sounds more like a case of misfiling than a conspiracy but if you must it's probably the Russians.

Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 08:26 AM

Russians are way down the list. I trust the Russians far more than I do the UK security services. Which is why I use yandex rather than gmail for sensitive emails, the KGB may read my emails, but at least they won't share them with GCHQ

Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: bobad
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 08:54 AM

Lol, I was being facetious about the Russians but not surprised to see someone rise to the defense of a despot and tyrant, the others should be along shortly.

Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Greg F.
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 09:49 AM

to see someone rise to the defense of a despot and tyrant

No one has defended Trump, BooBoo. That's YOUR schtick.

Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: bobad
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 10:06 AM

Lol Greg, clueless as ever.

Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Iains
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 10:16 AM

If you read the entire article it is quite clear why they were removed/mislaid. They are probably regarded as still sensitive and somewhat clumsily reclassified.(or more likely, should not have been declassified in the first place.

"Documents concerning the Falklands war, Northern Ireland?s Troubles and the infamous Zinoviev letter ? in which MI6 officers plotted to bring about the downfall of the first Labour government ? are all said to have been misplaced. Other missing files concern the British colonial administration in Palestine, tests on polio vaccines and long-running territorial disputes between the UK and Argentina."

I would suggest researching kilaries emails and the legality of her servers would be a more fruitful field of analysis.

Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Iains
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 10:23 AM

The peace process in N Ireland is fragile enough without the government providing details of it's more shady dealings with terrorists. For someone always banging on about the peace process and the border I would have thought you to be the last person publicise these documents.
But any time you can attack the UK you drive in, not giving a damm about potential consequences

So long as jimmie can hurl his rattle about all is well with the world!

Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 10:26 AM

"They are probably regarded as still sensitive and somewhat clumsily reclassified"
Sensitive to whom - the politicians who removed them, no doubt?
Other articles suggest they were lost
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Iains
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 10:41 AM

"Sensitive to whom - the politicians who removed them, no doubt?"
I will assume you are being disingenuous. To assume anything else would necessitate me believing you are at best naive and/or incapable of grasping the bigger picture.

Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 10:50 AM

For anti government right wing conspiracists to defend the government or Russia in this matter is an about face don't you think?

I see a personal bias at play here instead of needed conceptual thinking and Occam's Razor rational solutions.

Martin Iains Gibson, you're blowing your cover

Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 11:01 AM

This thing does have the pattern of a disruptive oppositional dual finger pointing of the Russians but it could just as easily be much ado about nothing.

Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 11:05 AM

"I will assume you are being disingenuous".
And I will assume by the fact that you respond with personal insults rather than answers that you are being as evasively dishonest as always
I really will never get tired of suggesting that you grow up
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Iains
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 11:37 AM

Donuel Do you even understand your incessant babbling? I can make zero sense of your last two posts.

Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 11:47 AM

Mor mindless abuse Iains
Grow up
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: BobL
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 04:09 AM

1. Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence (Hanlon's Razor).
2. Any sufficiently advance incompetence is indistinguishable from malice (Grey's Law).
3. Malice and stupidity are often in a state of quantum superposition. The problem with collapsing to one or the other is if they are in a circular feedback loop.

Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 04:22 AM

My mum is forever losing letters and documents, she is 85 and has dementia..

How old and well are some of these ministerial oficials...????

Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Raggytash
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 04:47 AM

Many, if not most, retire on healthy pensions quite early PFR !

Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 02:25 PM

Hey, Boo!

In case you missed this in reference to your post of 29 Dec 10:06:

Subject: RE: BS: Trump is a one trick pony
From: Donuel - PM
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 08:25 AM

Everyone now has heard the NYT interview of Trump by the Mara Lago golf course. Donald described his power and singular greatness.

He did not say he ruled by divine right or supernatural objects like the sword of destiny, he did not say he rules by Constitutional right.

He said he RULES BY ABSOLUTE AUTHORITY.

Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: bobad
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 02:32 PM

Like I said, clueless as ever.

Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Jeri
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 04:03 PM

Bob, I think he just gets confused sometimes.

Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: bobad
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 05:06 PM

Clearly, Jeri, but I don't hold it against him we're all getting there, some just sooner than others.

Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Amos
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 05:54 PM

Maybe all those documents should just relax, learn to chill and not be so goddamned sensitive all the time.

Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: ollaimh
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 09:06 PM

much more interesting is the recent irish reveal of a document that shows M I 5 in conversations with the ulster volunteer force, and discussing a possible assassination on charles haughey. the uvf were apparantley not interested in the offer of weapons and support from MI 5 as MI 5 had betrayed them several times already--in their opinion. this shows the willingness of the british security establishment to interfere grossly in the republic. the uvf claimed they killed their won ms hanna, in britsh security information that he was a traitor, only to find out that that information was untrue.

the disclosure of the official records on the northern ireland abuses would be nice but most have been sealed again, and few brits care about the murder of irish people.

Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Dec 17 - 04:01 AM

and few brits care about the murder of irish people.

What a ludicrously racist statement. I would suggest that it be removed but maybe it is best left as a reminder of the type of person the poster is.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Iains
Date: 31 Dec 17 - 04:51 AM

All governments have dirty hands and nasty little secrets. They normally perform more efficiently to keep them well buried.

For example:David-Kelly-post-mortem-kept-secret-70-years
"weapons inspector Dr David Kelly will be kept under wraps for up to 70 years. In a draconian – and highly unusual – order, Lord Hutton, the peer who chaired the controversial inquiry into the Dr Kelly scandal, has secretly barred the release of all medical records, including the results of the post mortem,"

Definitely dirty hands and a secret to bury there Methinks!

Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Mr Red
Date: 31 Dec 17 - 05:10 AM

Definitely dirty hands and a secret to bury there Methinks!

Yea, the hand of blackmail, threat, extortion assassination or something along those lines. Secrets were buried alright, in the grave with David Kelly.

The problem is who's secrets? And who attaches thereto?

Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 Dec 17 - 06:12 AM

"and few brits care about the murder of irish people."
Unfortunately, there is a modicum of truth in it - if overstated
A century and a half's conditioning has meant that many British people have hardly moved from Punch Magazine's mid nineteenth century depiction of the Irish as a subhuman species
The same applies to non-white residents of our former colonies
It was even built into our entertainment until relatively recently - go look up some olf Jim Davidson or Bernard Manning clips - both highly popular 'entertainers' (sic)
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Dec 17 - 07:19 AM

I disagree, Jim. You are playing a numbers game s numbers game here.

A century and a half's conditioning has meant that many British people have hardly moved from Punch Magazine's etc.

How many is many? Give us a clue. 90%? 50%? 10%? Once you can do that can you then let us know if the proportion of British people who do not care about murder of anyone else is higher or lower than that of anyone else? You cannot simply tar a whole race by the actions of a few and that is what you seem to be condoning.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 Dec 17 - 07:43 AM

"You are playing a numbers game s numbers game here. "
Not really Dave
A national survey a few years ago indicated that betwwn a quater and a third of British people hld and had openly expressed racist views - that included those aimed at the Irish
The Troubles inflated the already existing traditional anti-Irish feeling, but it has always been a part of British life
I remember, a few years before I moved here, doing an electrical job for a fmily in Wimbledon
I was told "We have Irish neighbours so we always check under our car before we drive away"
I was horrified when I moved from Liverpool, to find the extent of anti-Irish feeling in places where there weren't so many Irish people.
For a long time I found myself concealing my own family history
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Dec 17 - 07:56 AM

Not really answered my question have you, Jim. What percentage of British people are racist and how does that compare with other countries around the world? A good place to start would be this Wikipedia article. I do know Wiki can be wrong but at least there is no political bias that I can spot in the article.

I am not trying to catch you out here. I just find it odd that people can assume that because of where I was born I am more likely to accept the killing of others. Does that not seem strange to you too?

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 Dec 17 - 08:06 AM

Why compare it with other countries around the world Dave - racism is racism wherever it happens
Racism is not an assessment of how all people behave - just how many racists there are - which lets those who aren't off the hook
I'd have thought between a quarter and a third is a large enough estimate to raise concerns
There can be little doubt that Brexit was sold by using the 'race card' and the immediate rise of racist incidents confirmed that to be the case - you might consider the majority who picked up that card as an estimate of how many racists there are
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 31 Dec 17 - 08:07 AM

There can be little doubt that Brexit was sold by using the 'race card'
Complete bollocks.

Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Dec 17 - 08:15 AM

Why compare it with other countries around the world Dave

I thought I answered that in my previous post Jim. My statement was "I just find it odd that people can assume that because of where I was born I am more likely to accept the killing of others" which is exactly what ollaimh suggested and what you seemed to endorse. If we were to change the original statement to and few people in the world care about the murder of irish people, would you find it so acceptable?

Which is why, even though I agree with your point about racism being wrong whoever does it, it is important to understand that accusing one race of people of being more racist than another is not only wrong but racist in itself!

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: bobad
Date: 31 Dec 17 - 08:29 AM

It's racists who view the world in terms of race.

Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Dec 17 - 08:44 AM

Apologies, Jim. I seem to have attracted the usual suspects by trying to have a reasonable discussion with you. It is obvious that reasonable disagreement is what normal people do and have shit on the thread even more. I shall say no more on the subject of racism and hope that the moderators see fit to deal with it in a suitable manner.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Dec 17 - 08:46 AM

Sorry - Bad C&P. The nonsense sentence above should read

It is obvious that they do not understand that reasonable disagreement is what normal people do and have shit on the thread even more

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 Dec 17 - 08:59 AM

"and what you seemed to endorse. "
I did point out it was overstated Daave
British racism is a mixture of the natural mistrust of foreigners that all nations and communities have their share of and the racism developed and fostered by the British Empire in order to rule and exploit the less developed sections of the world
The latter was very much a part of my early formal education but was countered by my parents' hatred of both Empire and the idea of dividing the world int greater and lesser beings
The Empire pas firmly placed in history's dustbin - its effects remain and are now used by politicians to gain and retain power
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Dec 17 - 09:17 AM

You did, Jim. I suppose we are both lucky in having parents who were not little Englanders. I cannot say that my parents hated any of it. In fact, my Father and his family who came here after the war, loved England and laid the foundations for my belief that England was indeed one of the most welcoming countries for all displaced persons. It saddens me to see what has happened recently and to read some of the tripe spouted on here. I still believe though that when it comes down to it the majority of English people would welcome others. Even if they do have a moan about it :-)

Anyway - Enough of the thread drift. What did happen to those documents?

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Greg F.
Date: 31 Dec 17 - 10:55 AM

It's racists who view the world in terms of race.

And I'M supposed to be confused??

Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Iains
Date: 31 Dec 17 - 03:32 PM

I do not think many have a problem with immigration. The entire history of the UK consists of a series of waves of immigration/invasion. What troubles many people is the present rate of immigration, that many feel is unsustainable. As exemplified by pressure on schools, medical services and housing.

Caesar's second invasion consisted of estimated 10000 troops.

Similar figures are quoted for William the conquerors invasion in 1066.

The latest net migration statistics show that in the year ending June 2017, net migration to the UK was 230,000. Net migration started climbing in 1997

https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/statistics-net-migration-statistics

Insulting everyone that worries about this enhanced rate of immigration by calling them "little Englanders" merely demonstrates a willful disregard of the reality created by these high figures. But there are many still putting their heads in the sand and singing la la la, until such time as their exposed arses get a deserved good kicking.

Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Dec 17 - 03:44 PM

What was the population during Caesar's invasion or in 1066, Iains?

What is it now?

What was the percentage increase?

How was that information spread?

For what it is worth "little Englander" is not an insult but a description of someone who believes that England should be isolated and by it's little self.

Complete tossed is an insult but I shall leave it to you to determine to whom it applies.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 31 Dec 17 - 04:34 PM

Empires in General by the dozen and racism without racially defining which country or power group was responsible would not be a racist comment on its own.
I know everybody will not agree with this and I will view comment with my usual sense of humour.

"Racism is a mixture of the natural mistrust of foreigners that all nations and communities have their share of and the racism developed and fostered by the each empire in order to rule and exploit the less developed sections of the world

The latter was very much a part of my early formal education but was countered by my parents' hatred of both Empire and the idea of dividing the world int greater and lesser beings
Each Empire has been firmly placed in history's dustbin - their effects remain and are now used by politicians to gain and retain power and wealth"

Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Iains
Date: 01 Jan 18 - 04:46 AM

gnome. try reading what I posted again and stop acting like a eunatic.

Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Raggytash
Date: 01 Jan 18 - 05:28 AM

Whats a eunatic?


Perchance a cross between a eunuch and a lunatic?

Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Jan 18 - 05:33 AM

I must say, I do like the term eunatic. Going off your past record I do understand it was a mistake rather than an original thought but it describes you to a T. Barking and with no balls.

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Iains
Date: 02 Jan 18 - 03:38 AM

A Eunatic is one of those daft enough to nail their colours to the mast of the SS Eutanic. Easy peasy if you care to think about it!

Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Raggytash
Date: 02 Jan 18 - 06:51 AM

The only ship that is sinking at the moment is SS United Kingdom