Mismatched singers/microphone use/vocal training

Subject: Mismatched singers/microphone use/vocal training
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 10:54 AM

Someone posted a link on my Facebook page to a performance by Kristin Cheoweth and Shoshana Bean (a song from Wicked, that I've never seen. I've also never heard of Bean.) I'm posting this not because of the song or event, but because of the striking difference in the way these two women use the microphones as they perform together.

Chenoweth strikes me as a classically trained singer who uses her diaphragm and propels the song outward. She holds the mic several inches in front of her. Bean holds the mic as her mouth, as if she couldn't get the sound beyond how it sounds in that cavity. No propulsion.

I've seen other mis-matched programs, such a holiday performance by opera and pop singers. I think it was the mismatch of Placido Domingo and Diana Ross - she always has the mic right at her mouth, while his is positioned three feet in front of him.

Thoughts?

Subject: RE: Mismatched singers/microphone use/vocal training
From: Reinhard
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 11:02 AM

I've never heard of Ms Bean before. But why does she wear such an awful dress with her breasts all but falling out? Is she a model moonlighting as a singer?

Subject: RE: Mismatched singers/microphone use/vocal training
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 11:52 AM

Not the best start. This question is about the microphones, not the costume choices. But thanks for reading!

Subject: RE: Mismatched singers/microphone use/vocal training
From: meself
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 12:25 PM

Sorry, Acme - 4 seconds into it, and I literally can't get past that flopping-open-golden-bathrobe-on-a-rich-lush-with-a-hangover look. Maybe someone else will do better ... !

Subject: RE: Mismatched singers/microphone use/vocal training
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 12:42 PM

They both look awkward to me, but in different ways. Maybe "hands-free" might have worked better? Fun for the sound engineer too trying to keep track of their widely differing styles!
As for the costume - the next track on my screen is "Defying Gravity" - indeed!

Subject: RE: Mismatched singers/microphone use/vocal training
From: Mooh
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 01:35 PM

Different voices, different mics, different EQ requirements, contrasting voices. I don't see or hear an issue, other than nice voices wasted on a saccharine song.

Subject: RE: Mismatched singers/microphone use/vocal training
From: Stewart
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 02:51 PM

I don't think either of them are very good singers, or are good at handling their mics. Chenoweth's voice is easier to understand, but waving her mic around like that must drive the sound tech crazy. Bean's voice sounds muddled and hard to understand. And she's not singing into the mic, but at times over it, again very trying for the sound tech.

I was classically trained as a singer and taught to project in an acoustic hall with no electronic amplification. It took me a while to learn to sing with a mic. I have learned to stand back a foot or so and project. Also I try to keep a constant distance from the mic, and let the sound tech adjust the level. Some sound techs tell me to get the mic as close to my mouth as possible, but if I do that I blow everything away. Also for solo singing, I prefer not to have a monitor - it is distracting and I've heard myself sing before.

I run a venue in an intimate acoustic space, which needs no amplification - I like that the best. But some singers (mainly singer-songwriters) have a hard time - they can't project and have to have sound feedback to remind them that they are singing (the shower stall effect). The best singers, in my opinion, are street musicians who have learned how to be heard without any amplification.

Claudia Schmidt will sing in our venue again this coming May. She has a voice that needs no amplification (Garrison Keillor said "when Claudia sings a song, it stays sung!"). She loves our venue because she can freely move around and interact with her audience in the absence of any mics.

Cheers, S. in Seattle

Subject: RE: Mismatched singers/microphone use/vocal training
From: Acorn4
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 03:02 PM

Holding a mike close brings out the bass more while holding it farther away brings out the treble.

Subject: RE: Mismatched singers/microphone use/vocal training
From: Stewart
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 04:33 PM

There's probably an optimal compromise distance of the mic from the lips to give enough treble to make the words understood and not too much bass to muddle everything else. I guess it depends on what you want to emphasize.

S. in Seattle

Subject: RE: Mismatched singers/microphone use/vocal training
From: BobKnight
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 05:53 PM

That one waving the mic around is really irritating, never seen anything like it. Given that the volume remains much the same whether the mic is a few inches away, or a foot or so, I wondered if she was miming? Most mics perform at their best when the singer is just a few inches away.

Subject: RE: Mismatched singers/microphone use/vocal training
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 02:43 AM

Music technology gear and knockers.. my kind of thread.. must have a look at that video..


BTW.. here's my earlier thread about women and microphone matching...

Blue clickies not working for previous links...


https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=162940


and the youtube that thread points to:

Using Lewitt microphones for female folk vocals - test
[Lewitt compared to various other brands]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-Jg64bxXkw

Subject: RE: Mismatched singers/microphone use/vocal training
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 03:02 AM

oh dear.. just watched fast forwarded clips of "Kristin Chenoweth & Shoshana Bean"

every aspect of that dreary performance/presentation is shite....

At least the knockers might be real and not silicon,
but difficult to determine under that thick layer of fake tan and wax furniture polish...???

Subject: RE: Mismatched singers/microphone use/vocal training
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 11:15 AM

I've always enjoyed Chenoweth as a performer - I first encountered her in her multiple visits to A Prairie Home Companion. Once she struck it big on Broadway she didn't return very often (and now that program has been hastily repackaged as Live From Here and removed many of the recognizable PHC features).

I do admit that the poor design of Bean's costume also caught my eye. I presume that for audience members the angle of view reduced the amount of skin on display.

Subject: RE: Mismatched singers/microphone use/vocal training
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 12:56 PM

thoughts , yes every singer should have opera type training, using diaphragm, even if theydo not want to use huge vibrato

Subject: RE: Mismatched singers/microphone use/vocal training
From: meself
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 12:58 PM

Yes - just think how much better Howlin' Wolf and Hank Williams would have been with opera-type training .....

Subject: RE: Mismatched singers/microphone use/vocal training
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 03:13 PM

meself, its not to do with style it is to do with breathing and treating the voice with respect so that it lasts longer, you can have opera training but not sound like an opera singer,any singer that has suffered from voice problems because they were singing with bad technique will endorse my comment. hank williams did not live very long so the abuse his body received did not hyav e time to affect his voice howling wolf had a good technique anyway[ that is evident from smoke stack lightning, your comment is uninformed

Subject: RE: Mismatched singers/microphone use/vocal training
From: meself
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 04:19 PM

Is it? You just told me that Howlin' Wolf had good technique - "anyway" .....

Subject: RE: Mismatched singers/microphone use/vocal training
From: GUEST,ripov
Date: 30 Dec 17 - 09:17 PM

a little off subject but - 'physiotherapist (after surgery) Now take a deep breath...... no, not using your diaphragn!'

I'm not a singer, but a fiddler. In an 'open mic' situation I generally tell them to turn the bloody thing off (unless I am sharing with more delicate mortals who need it). How the hell did the old singers and musicians manage in pubs and music halls, before electronics?

I don't know that operatic training is any benefit - listen to Katherine Jenkins, it's done her no good,she can't even sing in tune! But maybe a good choral background helps?

Subject: RE: Mismatched singers/microphone use/vocal training
From: The Sandman
Date: 31 Dec 17 - 07:06 AM

Good singing technique [which is what opera singers have] means less damage to vocal chords, which enables vocalists to have longer singing careers, it is not related to styl[ howling wolf comment] or abilty to sing in tune, but does help breath control, which enables vocalists not to run out of breath at end of long phrases

Subject: RE: Mismatched singers/microphone use/vocal training
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 31 Dec 17 - 09:43 AM

"it is not related to ability to sing in tune" from what I have heard, opera singers do NOT sing in tune, they sing in a style - a hideous one too!!!

Subject: RE: Mismatched singers/microphone use/vocal training
From: Leadfingers
Date: 31 Dec 17 - 05:31 PM

From a 'Folk' viewpoint , the trend for PA use in even quite small venues rather than developing the ability to project to the back of the room , keeping close to the mic must have some effect

Subject: RE: Mismatched singers/microphone use/vocal training
From: GUEST,ripov
Date: 31 Dec 17 - 07:59 PM

would lady singers be mismatched if they offered different amounts of resistance?