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BS: Another year, same old story

keberoxu 17 Jan 18 - 10:21 AM
keberoxu 16 Jan 18 - 11:19 AM
Jim Carroll 16 Jan 18 - 03:25 AM
mg 16 Jan 18 - 02:46 AM
Jim Carroll 15 Jan 18 - 05:32 AM
keberoxu 13 Jan 18 - 04:18 PM
Jim Carroll 11 Jan 18 - 06:35 AM
Steve Shaw 11 Jan 18 - 06:31 AM
Mr Red 11 Jan 18 - 04:58 AM
Keith A of Hertford 11 Jan 18 - 04:58 AM
Greg F. 10 Jan 18 - 02:38 PM
keberoxu 10 Jan 18 - 01:21 PM
Steve Shaw 10 Jan 18 - 12:42 PM
Steve Shaw 10 Jan 18 - 12:23 PM
keberoxu 10 Jan 18 - 12:04 PM
Raggytash 10 Jan 18 - 11:56 AM
Raggytash 10 Jan 18 - 11:55 AM
keberoxu 10 Jan 18 - 11:48 AM
Steve Shaw 10 Jan 18 - 11:38 AM
punkfolkrocker 10 Jan 18 - 10:52 AM
Dave the Gnome 10 Jan 18 - 10:27 AM
Raggytash 10 Jan 18 - 10:26 AM
Keith A of Hertford 10 Jan 18 - 10:20 AM
Raggytash 10 Jan 18 - 10:00 AM
Steve Shaw 10 Jan 18 - 09:47 AM
Steve Shaw 10 Jan 18 - 09:46 AM
Keith A of Hertford 10 Jan 18 - 09:44 AM
Steve Shaw 10 Jan 18 - 06:32 AM
Jim Carroll 10 Jan 18 - 04:27 AM
Mr Red 10 Jan 18 - 04:01 AM
Big Al Whittle 09 Jan 18 - 11:06 PM
Jack Campin 09 Jan 18 - 02:36 PM
keberoxu 09 Jan 18 - 01:33 PM
Raggytash 09 Jan 18 - 12:47 PM
keberoxu 09 Jan 18 - 12:25 PM
Steve Shaw 09 Jan 18 - 11:33 AM
Steve Shaw 09 Jan 18 - 11:25 AM
Raggytash 09 Jan 18 - 11:09 AM
Nigel Parsons 09 Jan 18 - 11:03 AM
Keith A of Hertford 09 Jan 18 - 10:43 AM
Jack Campin 09 Jan 18 - 10:36 AM
Raggytash 09 Jan 18 - 10:29 AM
Keith A of Hertford 09 Jan 18 - 10:21 AM
Steve Shaw 09 Jan 18 - 08:50 AM
Keith A of Hertford 09 Jan 18 - 08:45 AM
Steve Shaw 09 Jan 18 - 06:03 AM
Keith A of Hertford 09 Jan 18 - 05:27 AM
Steve Shaw 09 Jan 18 - 05:01 AM
Keith A of Hertford 09 Jan 18 - 04:50 AM
Steve Shaw 08 Jan 18 - 03:36 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: keberoxu
Date: 17 Jan 18 - 10:21 AM

Does God answer prayer?

Just went past the bulletin board with the notice
that started my inquiry.

Someone took a ballpoint pen
and wrote across the Kevin Annett lecture date:
RESCHEDULED


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Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: keberoxu
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 11:19 AM

Since Raggytash responded to my contribution (page 2 if you're doing pages)
by consulting the Wiki,

I will bring this full circle.
Here are two different parts of the WikiVerse
with contrasting presentations on
the Kevin Annett attention-getting campaign
(sadly I think that's the most authentic thing about him,
that he craves attention)

RationalWiki: Pseudolaw

Wikispooks: whistleblower, activist, writer


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Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 03:25 AM

HERE
The Americas have historically been the location of the worst collusion between the church and State terrorism
This news item appears to have neatly slipped under the wire on this side of the Pond
Thanks MG
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: mg
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 02:46 AM

go to abuse tracker. read what is going on in peru and chile and the pope's visit. the pope has been extremely ..somewhere between negligent and culpable on this issue.


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Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Jan 18 - 05:32 AM

Interesting statement from an interesting source, from this morning's Irish Times

BISHOP SAYS DANGER OF CHILD ABUSE IS TO BELIEVE THE WORST IS OVER
A Catholic bishop has said that ignorance about the effects of child abuse in the past compounded its harmful effects on the lives of many young and vulnerable people.
"People of my generation began our adult lives with almost no awareness of the pervasiveness and impact of abuse in our society and in all societies," the Catholic Bishop of Limerick Brendan Leahy said.
"As a consequence, failure to recognise and respond appropriately to the complex issues which abuse presents, has at times compounded the profound and harmful impact on the lives of many young and vulnerable persons," he said.
"In recent weeks, millions have joined the social media conversation using the hashtag #MeToo, or its equivalent, on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram; women and men denouncing harmful sexual experiences. Many are revealing for the first time, via social media, their own stories. While the majority of those sharing #MeToo stories are adult women, a large number of the shared stories reveal sexual abuse that began when they were minors," he said.

Safeguarding
Initially, in trying to tackle abuse issues in the past, "we began speaking about child protection. Today we speak instead of safeguarding, because safeguarding is a concept that reaches beyond protection, responding not only to problems which have occurred but incorporates the prevention of harm and the promotion of welfare.
"Safeguarding also extends beyond children to include people of all ages and abilities who may have vulnerabilities which expose them to a risk of abuse," he said.

Collaboration
Bishop Leahy was speaking at Mary Immaculate College in Limerick at a conference on "Building Collaboration in Safeguarding" organised by Limerick diocese in association with An Garda Siochana, Tusla and the HSE.
Attendees included representatives from statutory, voluntary and educational sectors, as well as various faith organisations. "The greatest danger for us is that we might relax and believe that the worst is in some way behind us. To take this view would be a profound error which would compound the historical failures," he said.
From his own meetings with victims he was critically aware of its impact "on all dimensions of their lives and there are no quick or simple solutions to what are sometimes their lifelong struggles.
"I am also very conscious of the strain on people working in voluntary organisations as they struggle with what at times seem to be enormous limitations on resources.


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Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: keberoxu
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 04:18 PM

My earlier posts about Rev. Kevin Annett
referenced The Tyee, and Gnu.

I haven't heard from Gnu about Annett.
But here is the link to The Tyee.
This article goes back almost ten years.

Terry Glavin on Kevin Annett

As posted before, I'm not going to the Kevin Annett presentation
in the Greater Boston Metro area,
advertised for this month.
The issues in which Annett is invested are important,
and they ought to be addressed regardless of his position.


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Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 06:35 AM

"You and Jim both support BDS, a view too extreme for any UK party or any Liberal Democracy to espouse."
So extremism is to be judged by what political parties, including extremist ones, support and don't support
The classical definition of fascism is to place the actions of the state above the aspirations of the people
BDS is not extreme - if it was, any boycott would he an extremist act, such as that against Apartheid South Africa
Remind us how many decades Anerica boycotted Cuban goods or how long the blockade of Palestine by Israel has been in place?
Utter nonsense
Human rights groups and decent people throughout the world support action against Israel for its terrorist behaviour - I saw an exhibition of photographs yesterday in our County Town arts centre showing how the authorities have closed down an entire area of Muslim shops in the centre of Jerusalem
You manic attack on the Labour party is a perfect illustration of another example of religion being used to carry out abuse   
"I discussed anti-Semitism within Labour. No other party has had such issues in recent years."
Most religions have been incorporated into the establishment and many of them, Christianity especially, have become spokesmen for some of the most extreme right wing Governments and groups on the planet - Fascist Spain and Chile, Fascist dictatorships in South America - the Dutch Reform Church was a solid supporter of the South African regime.... the list is very impressive
No other Party has had such a problem - are you joking?
Ukip based their activities on Islamophobia and swung the vote on Brexit on a racist ticket
The vice chairman of an even more extreme anti Semitic and Islamophobic offshoot of Ukip it to be put on trial in Belfast for racist activities
The Northern Ireland Unionist Government was established on the basis of dividing an entire State into two religious factions and making one of those less influential than the other.
In contrast - only two members of the Labour party, Livingstone and Shah, were accused of directly involving Jewish people in their criticism of Israel - one apologised for a youthful indiscretion - the other simply told the truth at the wrong time.
Yet all the other things I have mentioned rate as less important as these two cases
That must signify something
I have no intention of responding to your inevitable denials Keith - New Year resolution and all that
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 06:31 AM

I don't care what you think, Keith.


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Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Mr Red
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 04:58 AM

Same old story

The chosen few addressing the person instead of the issue.

Reading into instead of reading.

Roll on 2019, it will be all different then.

Please!


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Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 04:58 AM

Steve, I am sure you are a lovely family man, but your political views are extreme.
You are happy to describe yourself as "Far Left."
That is extreme.

You and Jim both support BDS, a view too extreme for any UK party or any Liberal Democracy to espouse.
(Guardian, "Jeremy Corbyn would be happy to buy goods from Israel and does not support a blanket boycott, divestment and sanctions (BDS) policy)

When all your group are dominating a thread you posture as if your extreme views are mainstream, while marginalising and ridiculing anyone expressing actual mainstream views.


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Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 02:38 PM

Said it yesterday, bears repeating today:


Or more likely, not.


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Subject: the Rev. Kevin Annett
From: keberoxu
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 01:21 PM

Thanks, Steve. I figured nobody was listening before you posted just now.

A couple of things to consider.
Ronald Ross Annett has life-year dates 1895 - 1988, think I got those right.
His birthplace was Ontario.
When the Great War happened, R. Ross Annett enlisted.
He was at Vimy Ridge, no less -- something called "the pimple" ?!
This Annett, as you can see from his dates, survived, although
he was wounded in action and I believe wounded so as to be lamed. Something about his hip.

R. Ross Annett left Canada for the United States,
where he submitted stories to the Saturday Evening Post
about life in farm country in the province of Alberta.
I have yet to read any of these stories. If I hear right,
the characters are fictional but based on childhood experience.
Of his wartime experience, it seems, he never wrote.

The Saturday Evening Post stories made R. Ross Annett a Who's-Who type celebrity;
to this day there is a literary award, in Canada, with his name on it,
but I don't know who established the award or endowed/financed it.

I know of three sons from Ronald Ross Annett, perhaps there were other children.
William S. Annett, at latest report, is in his eighties and living in Florida, from where, for a number of years, he has written articles which appear online.
Jack Dunning Annett's dates are 1925 - 2011, according to an online obituary page for a periodical from the city?/town? of Consort, Alberta. This man's remains were to be interred in Consort. While Jack was born in the United States, his childhood, according to this obituary, took him to Consort and he spent his growing-up years in Alberta. Although he, too, had a lifelong love of literature and writing, he made his profession as an architect. There is nothing in his obituary about whether or not he was ever in the armed forces. His brother Bill is named among the "survivors" in the obituary. His parents are acknowledged by name.
Oh! Here's the answer to my question. Besides William S. Annett, the surviving brother,
the Consort, Alberta obituary (looking at it now)
says that Jack Dunning Annett was predeceased by, amongst others,

"brothers Bob and Ron and sister Carol."
So that totals five children of Ronald Ross Annett.

One of those two brothers was killed in action during World War II.
Ah! Just found him I think -- online now in another "tab."
The year before Jack Dunning Annett was born in the US,
this brother arrived, also born in the US:
Robert Ivan Loucks Annett, 1924 - 1944.
The name "Loucks" comes from the ancestry of his mother, Lenora or "Lennye," wife of R. Ross Annett.
A military cemetery in Western Europe is his final resting place. France maybe?

Oh dearie me.
I don't want to write anything more about William S. "Bill" Annett.
Most of what I could find out about him is written by him,
and it smells . . . it just plain smells.
I don't want to repeat it here, honestly.
If you are curious, you can put the search engine through its paces
and look for it yourself.
Well, suffice to underline that Bill Annett takes journalism and writing very personally, and is highly opinionated. Grandstanding, that's Steve's word above, is easily discerned in Bill Annett's opinions and convictions.
I could print some of them here. I won't though.

I know of two sons of William S. Annett.
One of them is his namesake.
The other is Kevin Daniel Annett, ordained by the United Church of Canada
and disbarred, it appears, by same in 1995.

Kevin Annett strikes me as a frustrated journalist,
ministerial ordination or no;
notoriety is more than useful to him, I fear he craves it somehow.
Ach, enough for now.


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Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 12:42 PM

Keberoxu, Kevin Annett has made himself into an extremely controversial figure. After a lot of googling I can't get my head round it and don't know whether I should be siding with him or not. Whatever his motivations are, his tactical sense is questionable. The sword of truth requires directness and a reining in of emotional grandstanding. The latter is the quickest way to get your adversaries to set to work on you as a person rather than face the accusations against them. He may be right but he doesn't appear to be doing it right. I'll keep looking.


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Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 12:23 PM

Or even Seville! Mrs Steve got 'em yesterday in Lansdown Dairy in Bude. The marmalade is now potted and the house smells great.


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Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: keberoxu
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 12:04 PM

Oranges.

I

GIVE

UP.


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Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Raggytash
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 11:56 AM

Or even Saville Oranges come to that!


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Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Raggytash
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 11:55 AM

Where do you get Savile oranges at this time of year?


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Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: keberoxu
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 11:48 AM

Said it yesterday, bears repeating today:

Carry on, if you wish, with that which fuels your fire.
My series of posts need not concern you,
as I'm not interested in getting personal.

Bit of a lost cause, this is.
The Rev. Kevin Annett, THAT's the correct spelling of his real name.
My posts of 9 January consistently misspell his last name as Arnett, and that is incorrect.
But who cares ... maybe Kevin Annett cares, maybe his father William S. Annett cares,
but their years in the public eye, and their messages and what they have to say,
never mind what has been done to others,
none of that interests in the slightest
those of you who are busy dancing the dance with each other.
Why do I even bother.

Maybe the Annett noises interest Raggytash a little bit.
Everyone else has better things to do.

After my two posts on this subject -- misspelled names and all --
my online searches continued apace.
I found some things that made me freeze.
And it wasn't what you think.
It wasn't the topics on which Kevin Annett has raised his voice since roughtly 1995.

It was the relationship between a father in his eighties,
and his adult son.
That absolutely hit me where it hurts.
It hit home harder than all of the stories about Canadian atrocities.
Because, as I said before,
but for the grace of ***, there go I.

That father-son pairing, the things they say about each other and the world they live in,
on line and for everybody else to read,
there is much to ponder there.
Would a separate thread be better suited to such disclosures?
Why bother posting any of it here?


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Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 11:38 AM

Happily married for 41 years, mortgage for most of 'em, two kids who went to local schools who both grew up dead nice, played Irish on gobiron down t'pub 'til started to go deaf, beaten up Ford Focus, Mrs Steve making marmalade in kitchen this very minute, fan of Liverpool FC, been out to Lidl for me veg this morning then B&M for me wild bird food, fly Easyjet for me hols, vote Labour (only political organisation I've ever been a member of)...

Yeah, meet Mr Extremist!


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Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 10:52 AM

Keith - yes that's right innit...

...you're the mainstream and everyone who disagrees is an organised red under the bed conspiracist threat to normality,
and should all be sent packing back to Russia...!!!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 10:27 AM

SADGIT


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Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Raggytash
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 10:26 AM

See what I mean Steve !!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 10:20 AM

Rag, PMs are available.
If you post a comment on the forum, anyone is entitled to respond whoever you address it to.
Childish name calling, so typical of your group, does not alter that fact.

You form a group of posters who dominate certain threads.
You all hold almost identical views and support each other while all attacking anyone who puts a differing view.

Politically your views are at the extreme end of the spectrum, but here you can posture as if you are mainstream, marginalising and ridiculing anyone who disagrees.
Your behaviour discourages decent people with mainstream views from contributing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Raggytash
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 10:00 AM

THIS POST IS ADDRESSED TO STEVE SHAW ONLY.

The wazzock can't even get it into his head that you, I and some other people are not an organised gang Steve.

If he can't grasp that simple concept you have bugger all chance with anything else.


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Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 09:47 AM

I'm past caring, Keith. We know you only too well.


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Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 09:46 AM

Hey, kind Mr/Ms Moderator sir/madam, would you please delete that last post of mine as it clearly has no place in this thread. Naturally, it's Mr Red's fault that it's here. Now that we have a dedicated footie thread I've copied and pasted it over there. I thank you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 09:44 AM

Steve, I know Joe's remark was directed at Rag, but it applies to you also.
You may have referred to other kinds of offenders here but you have never criticised any group but clerics. I do not lie.

What you said about me is not true.
I discussed anti-Semitism within Labour. No other party has had such issues in recent years.
I may have put Israel's side of the story when I felt it was being unfairly criticised by your group, but I have never singled out Palestinians for criticism.


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Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 06:32 AM

Football non-fans constantly attacking football for being tribal is, ironically, tribal. So you don't like football. Well a lot of people do. A couple of years ago I tried, months in advance, to get a ticket for a relatively humdrum, non-crucial home match at Anfield (Liverpool vs Villa). No chance.

There a lot wrong with football. Players' pay at the top of the game is scandalous. Most league footballers don't get tens of thousands a week, however. We tend to dwell on the most egregious examples, which are actually a small minority. Ticket prices are outlandish in consequence (though you'd pay approximately as much for a decent seat at the opera or for a symphony concert). There's far too much corporate involvement. Some top clubs are bankrolled by billionaires who can buy or sell clubs at will and that's not really fair. Transfer fees at the top are ludicrous, and they are boosted further by parasitic agents taking huge slices of dosh. Television rights are bought for billions a year. We all pay for that eventually via advertising, even though you have to pay to see the matches on the telly. Which I do.

But wassup? It's a perfect example of capitalism in action. So is Tesco, Asda and Morrisons, but I still use them. Another thing that will, I know, never convince the footie-haters: at its best, which is often, it's a beautiful, flowing game that requires consummate skill, tactics and fitness. It isn't popular for nothing. And its popularity, whether you like it or not, crosses class boundaries. It's a great diversion for millions of people who haven't got much colour in their lives. And what's so wrong with diversions? And, let's face it, Liverpool FC are simply the greatest in waiting...

Sorry for the, er, diversion...


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Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 04:27 AM

"Singling out only one group for criticism while ignoring all others however bad is bigotry."
And hiding behind the fact that "others do it" to defend it is gross hypocrisy
We deal with Christianity because that is what effects us, living in a so called 'Christian' country - it was Christians that committed these horrific crimes and it was the Christian Church which facilitated and defended it - on an international scale as it has been revealed
This has never been an attack on the religion or on Chrstions per se, as you persistently claim
It is an exposé of the criminal clergy and the criminal hierarchy who covered up their criminality and passed them on to other parishes and eventually other countries so they were able to continue to rape and abuse children
THey still keep the bulk of those details hidden
No other religion has ever behaved in that manner
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Mr Red
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 04:01 AM

football matches. Mind you, some would say the last one is a religion

Oh, I think calling it a religion is understating it rather a lot (aka huge). It is tribal, it is cash cow. It is politics so much that colour-blind prime ministers have to avow to like West Ham, when they mean Aston Vanilla ('cos they're easily licked).
Presumably prime ministers are so called because they only see in primary (political) colours!

And if we are talking abuse, why does blame for disasters at football stadia fall solely at the feet of those sorting the mess? Answer because anyone pointing out "this or that measure was the solution to crowd behaviour" is roasted by the fans. It is easier to name a scapegoat than blame a mass of human lemmings. Distasters rarely have a single contributory cause.


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Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Jan 18 - 11:06 PM

The real problem one suspects for abusers is that we have become an articulate, literate and critical society. There are many parts of the world where those wielding power are not subject to the checks and balances and surveillance that nowadays afford us protection.

many dark corners...i think we can all sense that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Jack Campin
Date: 09 Jan 18 - 02:36 PM

If the Rev. Kevin Arnett were the "con man" which some online responses make him out to be, then he would have been debunked some years ago

Since when did being debunked shut a celebrity up?


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Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: keberoxu
Date: 09 Jan 18 - 01:33 PM

Did you mean to say "wikispooks" rather than wilispooks?
My attempt to retrace your steps just now, Raggytash,
was a dead end at wilispooks, but wikispooks worked.

Here's how all this looks to me.
If the Rev. Kevin Arnett were the "con man"
which some online responses make him out to be,
then he would have been debunked some years ago,
because he has been before the public eye longer than I realized.

Would that the problem were so simple.
Arnett appears to be nothing if not human,
and what comes to my mind in evaluating the information about him is
"but for the grace of *** , there go I."

Arnett's feelings and convictions seem sincere, they are certainly intense
and these feelings and convictions have stood up
to years of intimidation and rejection.
Does that justify not knowing how much you are making a bad thing worse?

I fear that a public figure as fanatical as this one
requires a lengthy and uncomfortable commitment to therapy and counseling
before he can hold himself accountable
for the intrusions and problems he has visited
on the very people to whom he ministers.

That is asking, sadly, a very great deal indeed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Raggytash
Date: 09 Jan 18 - 12:47 PM

I've just had a quick look at wilispooks, interesting to say the least Keberoxu. I am shortly to go out for the night but will read up some more tomorrow.


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Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: keberoxu
Date: 09 Jan 18 - 12:25 PM

Carry on, if you wish, with that which fuels your fire.
My post need not concern you,
as I'm not interested in getting personal.

My participation in online conversations and fora/forums is limited to public computer stations, as my home has no computer.
So the public libraries see a great deal of me, as I am a regular at their computers.

This post is coming from one such library branch.
To walk from the door from the parking lot to the computer station table,
it is necessary to pass the bulletin board, and easy to glance there in order to see
if there is anything new and interesting.

Well, the Reverend Kevin Arnett is featured in a notice on the board,
which notice was not there yesterday.
I had never before heard of Arnett, or his "tribunal"
of which he gave public notice, within the past ten years,
about its foundation/existence.

It isn't this branch that Arnett is traveling to, but a library branch
in the same network, literally within ten miles up the same route
and into the next town over.
The notice advertizes Arnett's three-hour engagement/appearance there
as part of his tour promoting this tribunal.

Mudcatter Gnu knows who Rev. Kevin Arnett is because the Gnu lives in Canada,
and Arnett and his tribunal are of Canadian provenance;
also because Gnu reads The Tyee for its news content,
and The Tyee has for years been keeping people informed about Arnett.

For that matter,
a Mudcat search for forum threads about Arnett proved fruitful just now. Other Mudcatters have posted about Arnett in the past.

After doing some searching online about Arnett and his tribunal, though,
I am going to let the meeting happen without me.
I don't like what I hear/read;
not that there is no merit in the issues to which he draws attention,
but that Arnett seems so desperately polarized and fanatical
as to be capable of doing harm to his fellow man in the name of doing good.

This post has said very little about what Arnett seeks to expose,
nor am I going to -- it's pertinent to this topic of course.
I'm just concerned about not getting carried away and not losing balance.
Thanks for listening.


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Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jan 18 - 11:33 AM

"Singling out only one group for criticism while ignoring all others however bad is bigotry."

Whenever we discuss Israel you routinely single out the Palestinians and their allies for excoriation but you will never accept the slightest criticism of the Israeli regime or their US supporters. And you obsessively single out the Labour Party to the exclusion of all other organisations as if it were at the root of all antisemitism. And don't even begin to think of making this a thread about Israel. I state this only to demonstrate the laughable hypocrisy of your remark.


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Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jan 18 - 11:25 AM

"I have just read all your posts on this thread again.
I was not lying. You have never attacked any other group on this.
All you have done is to attempt to justify your always and only singling out the catholic Church."

All very checkable by anyone who cares to go through the thread. On at least four, if not more, occasions, I've said that the abuse is by no means the exclusive territory of clerics. I've said that there are good priests who have done many good works. I've said good things about my own Catholic upbringing and said that I never saw any of this kind of abuse. If you wish to ferret around to find a form of words that indicates that I'm on a mission to do nothing but attack clerics as my career, go ahead. It's what you do and we all know it. And it makes you a liar because you are deliberately trying to misrepresent the position I've taken all through this thread.

"Joe had it right days ago.
'But somehow, it seems to be that there comes a point when the frequency of your oh-so-righteous shaming of Catholics becomes an act of bigotry. I think you passed that point long ago, and your obsession has become just plain bigotry.'"

Yes, but YOU don't have it right. That remark was directed at Raggytash, not me. So you claim to have read the thread. Well your reading skills aren't up to much then, are they?


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Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Raggytash
Date: 09 Jan 18 - 11:09 AM

All of them Nigel.


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Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 09 Jan 18 - 11:03 AM

From: Raggytash
There you have it Steve, stating the truth has now become bigotry.

Incidentally the football coach referred to earlier has not been found guilty he is on trial.


And how many of the reports you place here about 'Clerical abuse' deal with people who have been "found guilty"?


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Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Jan 18 - 10:43 AM

There you have it Steve, stating the truth has now become bigotry.

No Rag.
Singling out only one group for criticism while ignoring all others however bad is bigotry.


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Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Jack Campin
Date: 09 Jan 18 - 10:36 AM

When abuse takes place, it is often with a sense of entitlement, dominance and superiority (for example, the Rochdale Muslims' abuse of white girls, whom they saw as mere kafirs)

The origin of the Rochdale case was a generation ago.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2006/jan/12/childrensservices.uknews

The council were set up by a gang of American Christian fundies and their British feminist accomplices into conducting a witch-hunt against non-existent Satanic child abusers. They made such catastrophic fools of themselves that nobody in Rochdale would dare raise the issue of sexual abuse of children for many, many years. And the real abusers figured that out. The panic merchants turned Rochdale into a child rapists' amusement park.

A bit more on the background to the Satanic abuse panic:

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/13119

With enemies like Ray Wyre and Beatrix Campbell, child abusers don't need friends.


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Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Raggytash
Date: 09 Jan 18 - 10:29 AM

There you have it Steve, stating the truth has now become bigotry.

Incidentally the football coach referred to earlier has not been found guilty he is on trial.


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Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Jan 18 - 10:21 AM

I have just read all your posts on this thread again.
I was not lying. You have never attacked any other group on this.
All you have done is to attempt to justify your always and only singling out the catholic Church.

Joe had it right days ago.
"But somehow, it seems to be that there comes a point when the frequency of your oh-so-righteous shaming of Catholics becomes an act of bigotry. I think you passed that point long ago, and your obsession has become just plain bigotry."


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Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jan 18 - 08:50 AM

I told you. Look through the thread. Now please stop telling lies.


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Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Jan 18 - 08:45 AM

You have never attacked any group over child abuse except clerics who you have singled out endlessly.

Again you resort to abuse when your case crumbles.


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Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jan 18 - 06:03 AM

Just evaporate, please, troll.


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Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Jan 18 - 05:27 AM

Especially the bit where I said that I have not just confined my criticism to clerics

Remind me of any other group you have attacked over child abuse.


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Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jan 18 - 05:01 AM

Read my post again, cloth-ears. Especially the bit where I said that I have not just confined my criticism to clerics. Repeating untruths like a robot will never make them true, another lesson that you have still to learn.


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Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Jan 18 - 04:50 AM

Steve, if you mean that I have doubts about my faith, you are right.
Be wary of anyone who says they do not.
I just wonder why you always and only discuss one kind of child abuse and ignore all others.

Pfr,
Keith - and how many of that lot would claim to be respectable people of faith...???

Any of them could.

Steve,
Likewise, you can't take the slightest criticism of Israel or the Tory party or of Nigel Farage.

Yes I can, but I have challenged criticisms that I consider unfair or unreasonable or plain false.

Your resort to "they did it as well, Miss"

I do not. I just point out that you unfairly single out certain groups for criticism while ignoring other and often much worse cases.
I see that as bigotry.


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Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jan 18 - 03:36 PM

You are clearly so sound in your adherence to your religion that you really should be laughing this off, Mr Acheson. But you don't, because you aren't, are you. You are so insecure and it shows: your favoured means of defence is to attack us and call us bigots. Likewise, you can't take the slightest criticism of Israel or the Tory party or of Nigel Farage. As a matter of fact I've just been through this thread and I've found four posts of mine (there may be more) in which I go to pains to point out that this not just about the clergy. Your resort to "they did it as well, Miss" is a long-discredited tactic here and I'm amazed that you still try to use it. You are reverting to your childhood. Take a look in your mirror and observe a real bigot of the most detestable kind. Then go and have a lie down.


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