BS: Another year, same old story

Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Mr Red
Date: 04 Jan 18 - 12:07 PM

Not just Catholics. When I mention the Mennonites to a Canadian friend, he wrinkles his nose and sighs, murmuring "child abuse".

Religion is a force for good, when it is good. But, sadly, it is administered by humans. That is it's weakness.

Now if God were properly in charge - she would set it right!

Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Jan 18 - 06:31 PM

Religion is a force for good,

Absolutely! As proof, I give you Roy Moore & Donald Trump.

Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Jan 18 - 07:08 PM

Religion has never been a force for good. Let's not dwell on persecutions visited on one religious group by another down the millennia, on bigotry, on institutional antisemitism by the Catholic Church down the centuries, on papal misrule and corruption in the Renaissance, on acquiescence in the Holocaust, on institutionalised sexual exploitation of children, on the Christian Brothers, on the Magdalen Laundries, on Mother Teresa's vile exploitation of the poorest and most vulnerable...

Yes, religions teach (but do not necessarily practise) morality. I'm a critical friend of the committee known as Jesus myself. But there's a rather wicked assumption, in the face of all this, underlying the assertion that religion is a force for good. It's that we wouldn't be good unless we had religion to make us good. That is religion's biggest arrogance and its biggest conceit, and it simply isn't true. In microcosm apropos of that, I went to the funeral of a close relative years ago. The service was religious because the rest of his family was religious. The presiding vicar declared that he'd been such a good, upstanding man because of his Christian upbringing. We knew better. He certainly was a very fine, upstanding man, one of the best I've ever known and who we all revered for his kindness, generosity, good humour and sense of justice. But the only time he'd been near a church in fifty years was when he was dragged, kicking and screaming almost, to weddings and funerals. Like I said, microcosm. Revealing nonetheless.

It's impossible to argue that we'd be better off without religion because we never get a chance to try it. But it is possible to argue that the glorious reality of the world is a damn sight more magical that the abject hocus-pocus peddled by religion's control freaks.

Not going to go down well, this, is it...

Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Jan 18 - 07:33 PM

"Absolutely! As proof, I give you Roy Moore & Donald Trump."
Sorry lads - ou fellers really need to separate religion from how it is used and abused
I have not need for either, but I have a great warmth for the real Christians' who accept it as a guide for life rather than a meaningless dogma
Two songs that have followed me through my life were This one of Woodie's and THIS by Ewan (just spotted my photograph on this clip - whee!!)
After fid=fty years I still get an enormous buzz out of singing Ewan's, especially to locals here - I'd sing Woodie's if I sang American songs
The greatest betrayal of all the events has been of true believers - that is shown by the numbers now leaving the church
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Jan 18 - 07:44 PM

Come on, Jim, sing Woody's songs! I knew which one it was going to be before I even clicked.

Taking the message of Jesus as a guide for living is fine, it can't be gainsaid. But a good life can equally well be lived without it, or even in spite of it. I can ride my bike without stabilisers and I can walk with head held high without crutches. Christianity has us all as wretches who must be saved. Well I'll manage without being saved if it's all right with y'all! See you down there with all those priests and popes and Mother Teresa!

Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Jan 18 - 08:20 PM

I prefer This One, Jim.

Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Jan 18 - 09:32 PM

Senefou I noticed we had the same vigilant conclusion but in different threads.


I wonder how many of us have wished for equal justice in these filthy old stories. It doesn't have to be an eye for eye, it doesn't have to be any more cruel or unusual a punishment than the crime. It just has to be applied equally without a single get out of jail card for the pious or rich or anyone. I hate that some guilty are excused by privilege or entitlement.

Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Jan 18 - 12:06 AM

Jim Carroll says: I have not need for either, but I have a great warmth for the real Christians' who accept it as a guide for life rather than a meaningless dogma

I can agree with that. Religion is something practiced by both good and bad people. The good people use it for good, and the others don't. I despise those who use religion for ill, just as much as any of you do. Maybe moreso, because they give the rest of us believers such a bad name.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Mr Red
Date: 05 Jan 18 - 04:07 AM

Sorry lads - you fellers really need to separate religion from how it is used and abused

As I said. But we have to be objective. There is no doubt that human cultures, and by inference**, human physiology evolved through the forming of tribes, and allegiances.
And religions, howsoever described, were central to that. Think Stonehenge and pyramids. Without religion you would have to coerce the masses to comply with more food, more riches, or more lashing.

We may have forgotten how to sculpt stone in 2 ton lumps so flat they need no mortar, but we have diamond saws now. And we still marvel at sculptors' efforts. There is still a place for religion, but not everywhere, nor for everyone.

Mr Red (devout Atheist).

** retain the context before you spout.

Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Jan 18 - 04:35 AM

"I prefer This One, Jim."
Same song Steve
Religion is an attempt by manking to explain what they see around them and is probably as old as mankind itself
Organised religion is when different sections of mankind began to squabble about it
The church is when somebody decided there was a profit and a career in it so they marketed and adapted it to suit their ambitions - privatised belief, to put it in modern language.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Jan 18 - 04:46 AM

Jim Carroll says: Religion is an attempt by mankind to explain what they see around them and is probably as old as mankind itself

I think maybe I would say, "Religion is an attempt by mankind to seek meaning in what they see around them and is probably as old as mankind itself."

Organized religion is a necessary structure to allow for people to gather - and it carries all the problems of such organizations.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Jan 18 - 04:54 AM

Organized religion is a necessary structure to allow for people to gather

Religion is not required for people to gather at all. They gather at concerts, festivals and football matches. Mind you, some would say the last one is a religion :-)

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Jan 18 - 07:34 AM

""Religion is an attempt by mankind to seek meaning in what they see around them"
That is philosophy Joe - something you would not associate with primitive man
I think it's been established that religion arose to explain life in order to control it to the advantage of the people - the elements, crop growth, etc
Basicc anthropology
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 05 Jan 18 - 07:55 AM

I think it's been established that religion arose to explain life in order to control it to the advantage of the people

Some would say that religion arose to control it to the advantage of the priesthood (or clan chiefs or whatever) rather than for the benefit of the people.

Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Jan 18 - 08:12 AM

It'll be a religion tonight during the Liverpool-Everton derby match (Where DO they put that third set of goalposts...?), Dave.

Religion is a pretty poor attempt at explaining anything. It routinely seeks by far the least likely explanations, those based on myth and magic and the supernatural, always studiously avoiding real evidence, "explanations" which not only can't explain anything but, worse, can't be explained themselves. We all have our irrational moments but I think it's quite likely that inchoate mystical ideas were pounced on opportunistically by community bigwigs who saw the potential for using myth and the human predilection for letting imagination run riot to generate awe and fear and to allow them to control people. Whatever benefits religion has achieved are simply accidental.

Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 05 Jan 18 - 08:29 AM

Whatever benefits religion has achieved are simply accidental.
I believe that the 'rule of law', which in many countries is based on Judeo-Christian values is hardly accidental.
Those originating the laws (whether Moses & Christ, or the priests) provided a sound footing for future laws.

Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Jan 18 - 09:02 AM

"Some would say that religion arose to control it"
Perhaps Nigel, but the churches came long after the rituals, which in many ways resembled the firing of guns into apple trees to ensure a good crop as still being remembered in some of the wassailing ceremonies
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Jack Campin
Date: 05 Jan 18 - 09:08 AM

This Thread is about a thirty-year-old series of offenses that Raggytash had already reported last August. No new misconduct, No new insights, No new anything.

Maybe not where you are, but the details of how the case has been more or less wrapped up have been front-page news in the UK, and it was a minor story back in August. I hadn't heard of it before, and a case of such monstrous things being done in one of the most boringly bourgeois bits of England would have stuck in my mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Jan 18 - 09:13 AM

Those originating the laws (whether Moses & Christ, or the priests) provided a sound footing for future laws.

In which case I guess that China, which has had very little influence from Jewish blokes in long frocks, must be a wasteland of lawlessness. It just goes to show what a good job those religious leaders did if people can still seriously believe that without religion the world would have descended into anarchy and probably destroyed itself before it had chance to develop.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Senoufou
Date: 05 Jan 18 - 09:17 AM

What irks me most about the major religions is their inherent misogyny.
Things may be slowly changing, but most of them put women at a very low position in their order of things.
This is particularly so in my husband's religion of Islam. But reading the Bible (especially the Old Testament) one would conclude that women were of little or no importance at all, and were there to be controlled and used.
I also abhor the homophobia which is still seen as relevant in many belief systems.
When abuse takes place, it is often with a sense of entitlement, dominance and superiority (for example, the Rochdale Muslims' abuse of white girls, whom they saw as mere kafirs) Very dangerous...

Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Jan 18 - 09:43 AM

Its been 35 years since I first equated elements of religion with hypnosis.
Latin: religio - to bind/tie together
hypnosis can bind thoughts and actions together

The Jesuits got wind I was making this connection.
They were not interested in the nuance of this, they only wanted to determine if this publicized concept was a danger to them.
They called me to their establishment to examine me.
There were 4 priests and no women
I had only started my 4 year participation in all the major religions so it was clear I knew little about religion but I could claim proficiency in science.
I told them that I preferred to have a doubting agnosticism.
I knew of the scholarly foundation of the Jesuit order so I didn't expect an attack but attack they did.

They invested in a big fancy hypnosis office and practitioner of their own but from a Jesuit Christian POV.
I told them later it was a matter of caring, I don't care and it doesn't matter.
Several years later they had a change of heart and wanted to be friends. Perhaps they still thought I was an enemy to be kept close but not being sure I cut all ties. I was still studying religion by practicing and I was up to Buddhism.

What I took away from the Jesuits is that like a military they attack first and then decide what to do and why...but intelligently.
I left town soon thereafter.Its been 35 years since I first equated elements of religion with hypnosis.
Latin: religio - to bind/tie together
hypnosis can bind thoughts and actions together

The Jesuits got wind I was making this connection.
They were not interested in the nuance of this, they only wanted to determine if this publicized concept was a danger to them.
They called me to their establishment to examine me.
There were 4 priests and no women
I had only started my 4 year participation in all the major religions so it was clear I knew little about religion but I could claim proficiency in science.
I told them that I preferred to have a doubting agnosticism.
I knew of the scholarly foundation of the Jesuit order so I didn't expect an attack but attack they did.

They invested in a big fancy hypnosis office and practitioner of their own but from a Jesuit Christian POV.
I told them later it was a matter of caring, I don't care and it doesn't matter.
Several years later they had a change of heart and wanted to be friends. Perhaps they still thought I was an enemy to be kept close but not being sure I cut all ties. I was still studying religion by practicing and I was up to Buddhism.

What I took away from the Jesuits is that like a military they attack first and then decide what to do and why...but intelligently.
I left town soon thereafter.

Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Jan 18 - 09:55 AM

Uh oh I am repeating stories like Trump

Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Jan 18 - 10:54 AM

You've highlighted not just accidental little peccadillos of religions, Senoufou, but inevitable, inherent and institutionalised problems caused by male hegemonies, which is what all major religions are.

As Moses and Jesus probably never actually existed, Nigel...

One of the tenets of organised religions has always been that we must succumb to a higher power in order to keep ourselves in line. Not one scrap of evidence has ever been presented to confirm that. The suspicious thing is that, without that tenet, religions would fall apart. No wonder it's so tightly clung to.

Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: keberoxu
Date: 07 Jan 18 - 04:45 PM

again, a space opened up for consideration of man's abuse of fellow man
has been polarized around religion.
Yes, man's abuse of fellow man is incomplete without the well-documented history of organized religion;
and that history has enabled and support continued abuse.

It is also a fact
that abuse thrives in places where religion is unwelcome,
and I didn't read that in a book --
I learned it in a household that maintained a facade of humane tolerance
and made religion unwelcome,
while generations of abuse were as carefully sheltered
as any other part of the family legacy.

Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Jan 18 - 05:33 PM

No-one denies that, and in fact I've referred to it in this thread. But organised religions are a special case of revered and held-sacred institutions which offer the opportunity for miscreants, trusted by the people, to be harboured. Being that special case gives them a special responsibility. We want to see that addressed, openly and honestly and a damn sight more promptly than we've been used to seeing.

Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Jan 18 - 01:31 PM

Another case of child abuse by a football coach in the news today.
Then there is child abuse by teachers, family members and friends, grooming gangs, youth organisation volunteers, people traffickers and all the others.
Why does only clerical abuse matter to you?

As Joe said, it looks like just an excuse to attack religion.
Just bigotry.

Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Jan 18 - 02:19 PM

"Another case of child abuse by a football coach in the news today.
Then there is child abuse by teachers, family members and friends, grooming gangs, youth organisation volunteers, people traffickers and all the others."

Keith - and how many of that lot would claim to be respectable people of faith...???

Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Raggytash
Date: 08 Jan 18 - 03:31 PM

No the professor is quite right to mention the case in the news today of a football coach who has been found guilty of child abuse.

Yet another man trusted by parents to nurture, care and educated their children, yet another example of appalling abuse of those same children and the trust of the parents.

BUT, I have to add, that unlike some clergy he was not moved to another area when that abuse was discovered and allowed by his employers to continue that self same abuse.

Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jan 18 - 03:36 PM

You are clearly so sound in your adherence to your religion that you really should be laughing this off, Mr Acheson. But you don't, because you aren't, are you. You are so insecure and it shows: your favoured means of defence is to attack us and call us bigots. Likewise, you can't take the slightest criticism of Israel or the Tory party or of Nigel Farage. As a matter of fact I've just been through this thread and I've found four posts of mine (there may be more) in which I go to pains to point out that this not just about the clergy. Your resort to "they did it as well, Miss" is a long-discredited tactic here and I'm amazed that you still try to use it. You are reverting to your childhood. Take a look in your mirror and observe a real bigot of the most detestable kind. Then go and have a lie down.

Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Jan 18 - 04:50 AM

Steve, if you mean that I have doubts about my faith, you are right.
Be wary of anyone who says they do not.
I just wonder why you always and only discuss one kind of child abuse and ignore all others.

Pfr,
Keith - and how many of that lot would claim to be respectable people of faith...???

Any of them could.

Steve,
Likewise, you can't take the slightest criticism of Israel or the Tory party or of Nigel Farage.

Yes I can, but I have challenged criticisms that I consider unfair or unreasonable or plain false.

Your resort to "they did it as well, Miss"

I do not. I just point out that you unfairly single out certain groups for criticism while ignoring other and often much worse cases.
I see that as bigotry.

Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jan 18 - 05:01 AM

Read my post again, cloth-ears. Especially the bit where I said that I have not just confined my criticism to clerics. Repeating untruths like a robot will never make them true, another lesson that you have still to learn.

Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Jan 18 - 05:27 AM

Especially the bit where I said that I have not just confined my criticism to clerics

Remind me of any other group you have attacked over child abuse.

Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jan 18 - 06:03 AM

Just evaporate, please, troll.

Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Jan 18 - 08:45 AM

You have never attacked any group over child abuse except clerics who you have singled out endlessly.

Again you resort to abuse when your case crumbles.

Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jan 18 - 08:50 AM

I told you. Look through the thread. Now please stop telling lies.

Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Jan 18 - 10:21 AM

I have just read all your posts on this thread again.
I was not lying. You have never attacked any other group on this.
All you have done is to attempt to justify your always and only singling out the catholic Church.

Joe had it right days ago.
"But somehow, it seems to be that there comes a point when the frequency of your oh-so-righteous shaming of Catholics becomes an act of bigotry. I think you passed that point long ago, and your obsession has become just plain bigotry."

Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Raggytash
Date: 09 Jan 18 - 10:29 AM

There you have it Steve, stating the truth has now become bigotry.

Incidentally the football coach referred to earlier has not been found guilty he is on trial.

Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Jack Campin
Date: 09 Jan 18 - 10:36 AM

When abuse takes place, it is often with a sense of entitlement, dominance and superiority (for example, the Rochdale Muslims' abuse of white girls, whom they saw as mere kafirs)

The origin of the Rochdale case was a generation ago.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2006/jan/12/childrensservices.uknews

The council were set up by a gang of American Christian fundies and their British feminist accomplices into conducting a witch-hunt against non-existent Satanic child abusers. They made such catastrophic fools of themselves that nobody in Rochdale would dare raise the issue of sexual abuse of children for many, many years. And the real abusers figured that out. The panic merchants turned Rochdale into a child rapists' amusement park.

A bit more on the background to the Satanic abuse panic:

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/13119

With enemies like Ray Wyre and Beatrix Campbell, child abusers don't need friends.

Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Jan 18 - 10:43 AM

There you have it Steve, stating the truth has now become bigotry.

No Rag.
Singling out only one group for criticism while ignoring all others however bad is bigotry.

Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 09 Jan 18 - 11:03 AM

From: Raggytash
There you have it Steve, stating the truth has now become bigotry.

Incidentally the football coach referred to earlier has not been found guilty he is on trial.

And how many of the reports you place here about 'Clerical abuse' deal with people who have been "found guilty"?

Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Raggytash
Date: 09 Jan 18 - 11:09 AM

All of them Nigel.

Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jan 18 - 11:25 AM

"I have just read all your posts on this thread again.
I was not lying. You have never attacked any other group on this.
All you have done is to attempt to justify your always and only singling out the catholic Church."

All very checkable by anyone who cares to go through the thread. On at least four, if not more, occasions, I've said that the abuse is by no means the exclusive territory of clerics. I've said that there are good priests who have done many good works. I've said good things about my own Catholic upbringing and said that I never saw any of this kind of abuse. If you wish to ferret around to find a form of words that indicates that I'm on a mission to do nothing but attack clerics as my career, go ahead. It's what you do and we all know it. And it makes you a liar because you are deliberately trying to misrepresent the position I've taken all through this thread.

"Joe had it right days ago.
'But somehow, it seems to be that there comes a point when the frequency of your oh-so-righteous shaming of Catholics becomes an act of bigotry. I think you passed that point long ago, and your obsession has become just plain bigotry.'"

Yes, but YOU don't have it right. That remark was directed at Raggytash, not me. So you claim to have read the thread. Well your reading skills aren't up to much then, are they?

Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jan 18 - 11:33 AM

"Singling out only one group for criticism while ignoring all others however bad is bigotry."

Whenever we discuss Israel you routinely single out the Palestinians and their allies for excoriation but you will never accept the slightest criticism of the Israeli regime or their US supporters. And you obsessively single out the Labour Party to the exclusion of all other organisations as if it were at the root of all antisemitism. And don't even begin to think of making this a thread about Israel. I state this only to demonstrate the laughable hypocrisy of your remark.

Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: keberoxu
Date: 09 Jan 18 - 12:25 PM

Carry on, if you wish, with that which fuels your fire.
My post need not concern you,
as I'm not interested in getting personal.

My participation in online conversations and fora/forums is limited to public computer stations, as my home has no computer.
So the public libraries see a great deal of me, as I am a regular at their computers.

This post is coming from one such library branch.
To walk from the door from the parking lot to the computer station table,
it is necessary to pass the bulletin board, and easy to glance there in order to see
if there is anything new and interesting.

Well, the Reverend Kevin Arnett is featured in a notice on the board,
which notice was not there yesterday.
I had never before heard of Arnett, or his "tribunal"
of which he gave public notice, within the past ten years,
about its foundation/existence.

It isn't this branch that Arnett is traveling to, but a library branch
in the same network, literally within ten miles up the same route
and into the next town over.
The notice advertizes Arnett's three-hour engagement/appearance there
as part of his tour promoting this tribunal.

Mudcatter Gnu knows who Rev. Kevin Arnett is because the Gnu lives in Canada,
and Arnett and his tribunal are of Canadian provenance;
also because Gnu reads The Tyee for its news content,
and The Tyee has for years been keeping people informed about Arnett.

For that matter,
a Mudcat search for forum threads about Arnett proved fruitful just now. Other Mudcatters have posted about Arnett in the past.

After doing some searching online about Arnett and his tribunal, though,
I am going to let the meeting happen without me.
I don't like what I hear/read;
not that there is no merit in the issues to which he draws attention,
but that Arnett seems so desperately polarized and fanatical
as to be capable of doing harm to his fellow man in the name of doing good.

This post has said very little about what Arnett seeks to expose,
nor am I going to -- it's pertinent to this topic of course.
I'm just concerned about not getting carried away and not losing balance.
Thanks for listening.

Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Raggytash
Date: 09 Jan 18 - 12:47 PM

I've just had a quick look at wilispooks, interesting to say the least Keberoxu. I am shortly to go out for the night but will read up some more tomorrow.

Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: keberoxu
Date: 09 Jan 18 - 01:33 PM

Did you mean to say "wikispooks" rather than wilispooks?
My attempt to retrace your steps just now, Raggytash,
was a dead end at wilispooks, but wikispooks worked.

Here's how all this looks to me.
If the Rev. Kevin Arnett were the "con man"
which some online responses make him out to be,
then he would have been debunked some years ago,
because he has been before the public eye longer than I realized.

Would that the problem were so simple.
Arnett appears to be nothing if not human,
and what comes to my mind in evaluating the information about him is
"but for the grace of *** , there go I."

Arnett's feelings and convictions seem sincere, they are certainly intense
and these feelings and convictions have stood up
to years of intimidation and rejection.
Does that justify not knowing how much you are making a bad thing worse?

I fear that a public figure as fanatical as this one
requires a lengthy and uncomfortable commitment to therapy and counseling
before he can hold himself accountable
for the intrusions and problems he has visited
on the very people to whom he ministers.

That is asking, sadly, a very great deal indeed.

Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Jack Campin
Date: 09 Jan 18 - 02:36 PM

If the Rev. Kevin Arnett were the "con man" which some online responses make him out to be, then he would have been debunked some years ago

Since when did being debunked shut a celebrity up?

Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Jan 18 - 11:06 PM

The real problem one suspects for abusers is that we have become an articulate, literate and critical society. There are many parts of the world where those wielding power are not subject to the checks and balances and surveillance that nowadays afford us protection.

many dark corners...i think we can all sense that.

Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Mr Red
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 04:01 AM

football matches. Mind you, some would say the last one is a religion

Oh, I think calling it a religion is understating it rather a lot (aka huge). It is tribal, it is cash cow. It is politics so much that colour-blind prime ministers have to avow to like West Ham, when they mean Aston Vanilla ('cos they're easily licked).
Presumably prime ministers are so called because they only see in primary (political) colours!

And if we are talking abuse, why does blame for disasters at football stadia fall solely at the feet of those sorting the mess? Answer because anyone pointing out "this or that measure was the solution to crowd behaviour" is roasted by the fans. It is easier to name a scapegoat than blame a mass of human lemmings. Distasters rarely have a single contributory cause.

Subject: RE: BS: Another year, same old story
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 04:27 AM

"Singling out only one group for criticism while ignoring all others however bad is bigotry."
And hiding behind the fact that "others do it" to defend it is gross hypocrisy
We deal with Christianity because that is what effects us, living in a so called 'Christian' country - it was Christians that committed these horrific crimes and it was the Christian Church which facilitated and defended it - on an international scale as it has been revealed
This has never been an attack on the religion or on Chrstions per se, as you persistently claim
It is an exposé of the criminal clergy and the criminal hierarchy who covered up their criminality and passed them on to other parishes and eventually other countries so they were able to continue to rape and abuse children
THey still keep the bulk of those details hidden
No other religion has ever behaved in that manner
Jim Carroll