BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood

Subject: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: keberoxu
Date: 02 Jan 18 - 06:49 PM

On a pet-cat thread,
neighborhood dogs and their interactions with cats have been noted;
it occurred to me
that while roaming cats will cheerfully accept treats / feeds in neighborhood homes,
dogs, with their sociability / pack behavior,
are likely to include an entire neighborhood
as extended family of a kind, if not their own pack.

Consider Senoufou/also/known/as/Eliza, a Mudcatter
who socializes with a border collie in a neighboring household.

May I ask, Eliza,
when did border collie Logie welcome Molly into his world?
Seems I have not heard of Molly before, am I right?
(well, you were away from us for a while)

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Senoufou
Date: 03 Jan 18 - 06:07 AM

Logie (a male border collie) lives two doors away from us. His owners have long experience with this breed, but a few months ago bought a lovely little female cocker spaniel called Molly. Logie was horrified, and refused to eat for nearly a week. However he came round and now is enchanted with the little pup, and seems to love her dearly. Both dogs are very friendly towards our cats. But of course, they aren't allowed free roaming of the neighbourhood, as they are valuable pedigree dogs and could come to harm.
Before the winter weather began, I used to sit on the bench in front of our house, and all the dog-owners would come along, and sit down and chat, while their dogs and our cats hob-nobbed together in the sun. Various children joined the 'club'. I think the sociable atmosphere and relaxed tone of these meetings calmed all the animals and made them sociable too. Our cats felt safe up on the bench beside me, and the dogs sat down at our feet and panted happily.
We're considering buying a second bench to place in the same location, so that there will be enough room in the Spring for all the humans, dogs and cats to plonk themselves down for a bit of a natter!

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Raggytash
Date: 03 Jan 18 - 06:21 AM

I have to say I'm not that fond of dogs and I have scars to prove it.

One thing does puzzle me though. Why do dog owners have to take them to the pub with them on every visit. It doesn't often happen in Ireland, it is unusual to see a dog in a pub in my experience but it England !

One of my locals is a fabulous old pub dating back to 1745, with tiny rooms. On one recent visit there were 18 people in the front bar making it quite crowded especially with the 20 dogs that were present!!

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Senoufou
Date: 03 Jan 18 - 06:42 AM

Ha ha Raggytash, you're right! Our village pub used to be called the 'Fox and Hounds', but the new proprietors dropped the 'Hounds' and renamed it simply 'The Fox', with a ghastly new modern-style pub sign of a cartoon-like fox. However, I have to smile, as it's awash with various 'hounds', despite being a rather foodie sort of a pub.

Not everyone likes animals, and some like yourself can be a bit afraid of dogs, having been attacked. But here in the sticks in Norfolk, all the village pubs have been accustomed to their patrons bringing their 'dorgs' in. Most worked on the land and the 'dorgs' were always at their side.

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Jan 18 - 08:05 AM

Hey Eliza, good to hear from you! Welcome back!

On the topic of pubs and cafés, my question would be, "Why do so many ban dogs from their premises?". My favourite town for short breaks is Keswick where, as well as the obvious attraction of its location, dogs are welcome in most, if not all, pubs, cafés and eateries.

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Jan 18 - 08:28 AM

Oops, pressed 'Go' too soon...I was going on to say...

In my own town there is only one cafe that allows dogs in and, as far as I'm aware, none of the pubs do. In summer, when it's fine and warm, I can sit outside if I stop for a coffee when I'm out with my dog, but in winter??

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Raggytash
Date: 03 Jan 18 - 08:52 AM

Backwoodsman, my cats are not allowed in our dining room at home and I certainly wouldn't want them around me if eating out. I do object to dogs in pubs for various reasons, hygiene being pretty high on the list.

If the bar person fusses a dog I ask them to wash their hands before pulling my pint.

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 03 Jan 18 - 10:50 AM

I have had four dogs over the years but have never taken any of them inside a pub or cafe. I have, on occasions, sat outside in a beer garden with the dog lying down at my feet but I find it difficult to relax if I think that its presence may be disturbing others at a nearby table, even if they have raised no objection.

My current dog is an Old English Sheep Dog. Lots of people we meet out and about like to make a fuss of him but these people approach us rather than us going into where they are. I am not sure they would welcome such a large bundle of fur when they are eating or drinking. One of the pubs I go to for sessions is dog friendly but he stays at home while I make music.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Jan 18 - 11:12 AM

I wouldn't allow cats in my dining room either, Raggy. Impossible to train to stay off furniture, climbing around the chairs, sitting on the table licking their arses. Dirty little buggers. (And yes, I had a number of cats over many years).

My dog, a Border Terrier, does none of those things - he knows his place (on the floor) and stays there. He lies on the floor under the table or behind my feet. He's quiet, and has been properly trained to have good manners, unlike many children I'm forced to endure in eating establishments. He bothers no-one, other than those who offer their attention.

I just wonder how a dog lying quietly under my table poses a hygiene threat to someone else sitting at theirs.

FWIW, there is no law preventing dogs from being in places where food and drink are consumed, only in places where food is prepared, handled, or stored, it's all down to the proprietors' discretion...

http://www.dogfriendlybritain.co.uk/features_detail.asp?Feature=40

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Raggytash
Date: 03 Jan 18 - 01:30 PM

I accept that I may be biased BWM, but I can rarely go in a pub in this country without having masses of smelly dog around me.

I don't necessarily blame to dog, bad owners are a far bigger problem.

For example a couple of night ago I was in a pub which prides itself on not having a TV, a jukebox or a radio only to be confronted with a dog constantly barking ...... and I do mean constantly.

Had I been the owner of the dog I would have taken it home, had I been the publican I would have asked him to leave, neither happened.

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Jan 18 - 01:48 PM

Had I been the owner of the aforesaid dog, you wouldn't have needed to ask the publican to request me to leave, I'd have been outta there. We allow ours one 'go' of barking, on the Second occasion, we put our coats on and leave.

I do agree, owners are the problem - exactly the same as parents who allow their kids to run around and bellow like Stentor on Steroids - it's down to having consideration for others, something that many people seem to know very little about nowadays.

But it all works fine in Keswick, dog-owners and non-dog-owners frequent the same pubs and eateries, everyone seems to get along fine.

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Senoufou
Date: 03 Jan 18 - 02:09 PM

I always get a little worried about a dog that is constantly barking, as it could be in distress, very bored, hungry etc. It certainly shouldn't be doing it in a restaurant or pub, and disturbing everyone.

And as for blooming children galloping around and making a din - no!
Sensible parents bring a little colouring book along, or let the child have an e device to watch quietly. If I could manage thirty little darlings at once, surely a couple of them aren't too difficult to keep under control.

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Jan 18 - 04:39 PM

But you were presumably able to view those little darlings, and their behaviour, subjectively, Sen - something that a significant number of parents seem unable to do.

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Jan 18 - 04:40 PM

Or did I mean 'objectively'? Not sure, but you get my drift?

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Senoufou
Date: 03 Jan 18 - 05:07 PM

I know what you mean Backwoodsman. Parents seem to think their little angels are terribly sweet when rushing about between the tables and piping up loudly when folk are trying to eat/drink in peace. I was always very fond of my pupils, but never so besotted that I let them become utter nuisances.
Dogs are much the same I imagine. Well-behaved ones like your Border Terrier know full well what sort of behaviour is expected of them.

I'm a dreadful tutter when out and about. Pursing my lips and clutching my pearls at badly-behaved brats in shops, cafes and on buses. African children truly are 'seen and not heard', which is too repressive in my view, but there's a happy medium.

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Jan 18 - 05:18 PM

Couldn't agree more, Sen.

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Raggytash
Date: 04 Jan 18 - 09:02 AM

Backwoodsman I would like to clarify one thing. I didn't ask the barman to ask the person to leave. I said that if I was the barman I would have done so.

Unsurprisingly the same thing happened last night. Seven people in the bar and five dogs. One couple had two dogs, one of which barked almost continually. As I had just bought a pint I had to endure it during the time it me to drink. Very little effort was made by the couple to quieten the dog.

Not strictly the dogs fault, it didn't know it was annoying the hell out of the people there, but the owners should have.

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Thompson
Date: 04 Jan 18 - 09:55 AM

I think dog owners who train their dogs badly become deaf to the barking and don't really realise it's happening.
Isn't there a word the Vikings used to use for distance, meaning the distance a barking dog could still be heard?

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: CupOfTea
Date: 04 Jan 18 - 10:59 AM

I had a wee sheltie who went many places with me. In the US, restaurants and pubs are not places to take dogs, nor are many other situations I had the sense to not try. In places where a strange dog would be an issue, I'd ask. Thus he got to go to a formal Christmas party on his way home from a dog show where he'd achieved his first obedience title, and was welcomed (in a carrier) at my dentist's office when he was recovering from an injury and needed monitoring. Because of his good behaviour he was INVITED many places, including out of town visits.

Having that history, I get deeply irked at a fiddler in a couple bands I'm in who insists on dragging her shaggy doxie to dances. Very cute dog, very little training. Peed in one dance hall, barked through a library gig for a Jane Austen group that almost got us thrown out, and looks abused when she's pulled across the floor like a pull toy with her legs braced. Fortunately, we were able to stop the fiddler from the outright lie that she was being trained as a "service dog" - too many of us knew that was not possible/true/likely by the behaviour of the fiddler and the lack of training of the dog. I'm a "dog person" always have been, and this is the first time I've resented having a dog in our midst on a regular basis.

It isn't really the dog that's the problem, it's the human. Always.

Joanne in Siberia on the Heights

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Senoufou
Date: 04 Jan 18 - 11:00 AM

Oh Thompson, please please try to remember that word, as it's intriguing me! I've just been looking up 'unusual distances', but it isn't listed, nor is it under 'Viking measurements'.

(I did find 'muggelseggele' though, which made me laugh.)

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Jan 18 - 11:33 AM

Raggy, I didn't think you did! I know you're an honourable man!

CupOfTea strikes the fastener on the cranium when he/she says it's the human that's the problem, not the dog. We took our dog to obedience training classes from the age of twelve weeks until he was about two years old and, although he isn't perfect (he's a bloody terrier!), he does have good manners, knows his place, and knows what's expected of him when we take him anywhere. We never allow him to 'bother' other people if we take him to a pub or café, he's not allowed to 'hunt' or 'beg' for food, he's not allowed on furniture at home (apart from 'his' spot on the sofa, indicated by the presence of his quilt, so he never tries to get on to seats etc. when we're out.

But I've seen considerably more mess, filth, and disruption caused by kids than by my dog - feet on seats that other people have to sit on, food and drink spilled all over tables and on the floor, trodden into carpets, kids shrieking and bellowing, running around - 'expressing themselves', according to their fawning parents - so I'll take a well-trained, well-behaved dog over that lot any time! :-;

Usual disclaimers apply......IMHO, YMMV etc.

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: keberoxu
Date: 04 Jan 18 - 11:45 AM

This is kind of wandering from
neighborhood households with dogs
to
pubs and restaurants and parties
that humans bring their dogs to.
But what is Mudcat for,
if not for wandering threads.

Eliza/Senoufou, that's hilarious about the neighbors
bringing the second puppy home
and the first puppy stages this drama about
not touching his food dish for a week!
And then coming around and happily including the new pup in everything.

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: peteglasgow
Date: 04 Jan 18 - 11:52 AM

for a long time i've seen well-behaved lovely lurcher/greyhound type dogs quietly lying under tables in our local (or in keswick up the road. 'dog-friendly' is a popular marketing thing for tourism round here) 6 months ago we got our own rescue lurcher, rosa, who is every bit as well-behaved. she has never bothered anyone or begged at the table and never gets anything from it. however, i have been amazed to discover the number of people who go round with dog treats in their pocket who can be offended when i ask them not to give rosa anything (lurchers will always want more) Generally, i like to see good dogs in the pub , we, like them, are relaxed and friendly round here.

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Senoufou
Date: 04 Jan 18 - 11:59 AM

Logie certainly did express his disapproval keberoxu! But to see them together now is a joy. She's a really sweet little thing, full of fun and very friendly. Logie licks her head so much she always looks a bit damp around the ears.
And huge Harry (golden retriever) with little Marnie (a French bulldog I think) is just as sweet, with their three ginger-haired children literally 'in tow'. But he's the most friendly dog ever. When my husband pats him, Harry leans heavily on him, which always makes him laugh.
The other dog in our neighbourhood is Buddy, a small terrier and a bit of a handful. However, he seems to love my husband and never snaps at him. His owner is an elderly man, very fond of my husband, who calls him, "My father".
I sometimes sit on my special bench and have to blow my nose, it's so delightful round here. (Silly sentimental old biddy!)

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: keberoxu
Date: 13 Feb 18 - 11:02 AM

Refreshing the thread
about friendly dogs in the neighborhood
to take my mind off of
all the BS threads that are being hijacked
by the kind of humans
that give dogs a bad name.

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Senoufou
Date: 13 Feb 18 - 12:16 PM

Molly arrived back in late summer. She's a mad little thing, very friendly and lively.
Their owners now walk both dogs together on the 'long walk' (across the fields and along the river bank, about three miles) Molly loves it, and they're let off the lead when deep into the fields away from the road.

Of course, cocker spaniels use their noses exceptionally well, and she can flush out pheasants and voles etc. Logie gazes wistfully at the livestock in the distance, but is forbidden to try and round them up!

Our neighbour across the road, Ruth (her son lives in the old manor house), adores dogs and carries dog treats in her pockets. Logie and Molly (and all the other pooches for miles around) recognise Ruth from afar and go crazy when they get to her. She offers them a small treat and they have to sit nicely before they can have it.

It's such a tranquil and kindly neighbourhood. We're so lucky in this village.

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Mrrzy
Date: 15 Feb 18 - 07:31 AM

I think in the US dogs are not allowed in restaurants unless they are service dogs, the dogs I mean, not the pubs.

Which is a shame, I think. I also don't understand the hygiene thing, if my dog is here and you are there with your children, who has more germs around their food?

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Raggytash
Date: 15 Feb 18 - 09:42 AM

Sorry Mrrzy I don't want dogs (or cats) around while I am eating.

Is it really TOO much to ask that people leave them at home?

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Feb 18 - 09:57 AM

I'm fully with Raggytash on this, quite likely far more militant than he is. There should be no cats or dogs in any pub, cafe or restaurant, full stop. Their owners will touch their animals or their bits and pieces such as leads, all of which are contaminated, then the germs on their hands get all over the furniture, cruets and everything else that the other customers have to come in contact with. And dogs smell. Dogs round here are a confounded bloody nuisance on the beaches but their tourist-owners hold us to ransom, boycotting the place if their dogs aren't allowed on. There. That's nearly all my friends lost. I don't care. Dogs are a bloody curse.

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 15 Feb 18 - 10:27 AM

Raggytash - many dogs just cannot be left on their own. The border collie cross we looked after for 10 weeks last year could not be left, but our previous dogs could.

I don't want children around when I am eating in a restaurant unless they are well behaved. Usually dogs are much better behaved in restaurants than children.

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Feb 18 - 10:30 AM

You didn't lose me, Steve. Im with you 100%. And don't get me started on "free range" cats......

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Raggytash
Date: 15 Feb 18 - 10:37 AM

Bonzo, I used to leave my child at home. I got a baby-sitter.

In one local pub there are often (and I do mean often) more dogs than people, the staff fuss them constantly and are taken aback when I ask them to wash their hands before pulling my pint.

I've just spent 16 days in Ireland, I saw one dog in one pub in that time.

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Feb 18 - 10:37 AM

Usually dogs are much better behaved in restaurants than children.

Well, I dunno Bonz- children don't lick their asses and then lick your face or hand. I also haven't seen children (below below the age of puberty, anyway) try to hump someone's leg.

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Senoufou
Date: 15 Feb 18 - 01:36 PM

I love dogs and children. And, of course, cats. They all have a right to be around us. I doubt whether anyone ever fell ill because a dog or a child was near them in a cafe. I'm much more wary of sneezy snotty people on the bus who don't seem to know about hankies.

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Feb 18 - 01:58 PM

Today in DC it is 70 Fahrenheit. Which means all the frozen dog poop has released two months of its aroma in one day.

Opening windows is not recommended.

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Feb 18 - 02:26 PM

If I had a quid for every time I've heard that "it's only a tiny minority of dog owners who are irresponsible" I'd been a rich man. It isn't. It's the vast majority. Very few people out and about with dogs have the faintest clue how to control them. And most of them think that "dogs must be kept on leads" doesn't apply to them. Round here, dogs are allowed to barge around all over our local nature reserve which is a precious habitat for ground-nesting birds, and the walkways round the reserve are known as Dogshit Alley. Many people pick up dogshit only if they think they're being watched, and the bags of dogshit look so lovely hanging from the bushes next to the paths. And God knows what kind of mentality will accept picking up a warm dogturd through thin plastic in any case.

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Feb 18 - 02:33 PM

I doubt whether anyone ever fell ill because a dog or a child was near them in a cafe.

Doubt all you want. Have any evidence?

Near them" perhaps not. After having touched them, or touching something that they had prevoisly touched, licked, or rubbed their butts or other parts of their anatomies against, most assurecly so.

How about a nice case of roundworms? Or toxoplasmosis? or ringworm? What about Campylobacteriosis? Or tapeworm?

Maybe you'd prefer Scabies? What about the ever upular Leptospirosis??

And that's only a small selection of what's available from dogs & cats.

Look it up.

-----

Donuel- that's a small price to pay for idiots with no responsibility.
Tracking traces into the house is also not recommended - see above.

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Senoufou
Date: 15 Feb 18 - 02:40 PM

Ha, you lot would curl up and swiftly expire in W Africa. Germs there really ARE germs. Not to mention parasites and sewage. No, I still don't believe I'm in any danger from UK dogs or children in a pub or cafe.
There is a bit of a thing these days about everything being completely sterile, as if we're all in a huge operating theatre. As long as one washes one's hands thoroughly, all will be well.

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Feb 18 - 02:49 PM

Ha, you lot would curl up and swiftly expire in W Africa.

That's nice.

However, that has nothing to do with the point under discussion. Nor does it refute anything that I or Steve or Raggy & the rest have said.

As long as one washes one's hands thoroughly, all will be well.

Now you're just being silly. Or ignorant.

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Senoufou
Date: 15 Feb 18 - 02:51 PM

Now now Greg, you've bitten nearly everyone on Mudcat, don't start on me or you'll come unstuck mate.

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Feb 18 - 04:24 PM

Guess you'll just have to wash your hands of me, eh?

Or vice versa?

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Senoufou
Date: 15 Feb 18 - 04:37 PM

Hahaha! Well, we're neither of us a danger to health Greg. No need to wash our hands of each other. :)

And everyone has the right to decide about their own environment and how to protect themselves. I don't worry about touching things, but I do think about breathing in airborne bugs.

We don't let our cats in the bedroom or on the beds. And I do wipe over the kitchen worktops with disinfectant regularly (they plod around on there during the night) Neither of us has ever had a stomach upset or infection problems.

But in Africa, hygiene is nowhere to be seen. Open sewers, rubbish dumped in the street in heaps, flies on the food, even sadly the occasional unburied, bloated corpse waiting for collection by, of all people, the 'pompiers' (firemen!) Cholera, typhoid, polio, Hep A and so on and on. And of course the heat and humidity help the bugs to multiply exponentially. So you see, in the UK, the odd dog in a pub or a child with sticky fingers is as nothing to me.

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 15 Feb 18 - 04:42 PM

And God knows what kind of mentality will accept picking up a warm dogturd through thin plastic in any case.

It's the mentality of a responsible and socially aware dog owner. It's not a thing I enjoy doing but it's something that I accepted I would have to do when I decided to get a dog. I clean up after my dog and (hopefully) walk around piles of poo left by those who can't be bothered.

It's the same as changing babies' shitty nappies. It was only ever down to the wife or myself so, as a father of four, I accepted my lot and got on with the job. Once I became a grandfather, I was happy to leave that task to my kids.

Taking children into restaurants is part of their growing up and is a learning experience. How else are they to be taught how to behave in polite society? Dogs, however well trained, will still be dogs and do what dogs will do. They are best kept out of public places serving food and drink. That goes double for cats.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Feb 18 - 06:39 PM

Thank you Doug. Hear, hear.

Neither of us has ever had a stomach upset or infection problems.

You're dam'd lucky. Many others, not so much. And at least those are YOUR animals, in YOUR home- not strange/unknown animals & their potential diseases being inflicted upon unspecting strangers.

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Feb 18 - 07:09 PM

And when you pick up that lovely warm patty from the grass with your little poo-scrotum, you really think that you are removing all the contamination, do you? No little smears, no nice runny bits left for unsuspecting kids/adults/other dogs to pick up?

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 15 Feb 18 - 07:40 PM

It's not a perfect world, Steve - I do my best.

I don't take my dog into designated children's play areas and stay off the family area off the beach in the summer season, as required by the local council. I don't take my dog into pubs or cafes, even when it is permitted by the owners. He stays on a lead on roads with traffic, or anywhere where there may be cyclists or young children. The same applies if there are other strange dogs nearby unless we have agreed with the other owners to let them off the lead together.

If that isn't good enough for you, then you're just going to have to live with it.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Feb 18 - 08:15 PM

That's definitely good enough for me, Doug, but you are in a minority. Come and have a look round Bude some time. The locals are terrible enough, often ignoring the laws about dogs on beaches and definitely ignoring the rules about dogs on leads. The walkways around the canal and nature reserve are plastered with trodden and untrodden dogshit. There's a ludicrous rule that allows dogs on Summerleaze beach in summer as long as they're on leads. So dogs don't shit when on leads, huh? Well never mind because most people take no notice of the rule anyway. Not a day goes by on that beach that doesn't have several dogs chasing around and yapping uncontrollably and interminably with their owners either ignoring it, treating it as fun or even actively encouraging it. If I go for a walk at low tide I can guarantee that I'll be hassled by at least one out-of-control dog hurtling towards me from a hundred yards away, "just being friendly, he won't hurt you." No dog should be out in a public place unless it's on a short lead. Very few owners can make their dogs walk to heel. And all dogs should be licenced. A couple of hundred pounds a year should cover it. I don't see why I should foot the bill for clearing up the mess and emptying dogshit bins.

Then there's caravans and motor "homes"...

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Feb 18 - 08:23 PM

Dammit. I think I'm allowed to type "licenced," strictly speaking, but it looks a bit capricious, so it's "licensed" for me from now on.

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Feb 18 - 12:49 AM

You really are scared shitless of dogs aren't you, Steve?

I didn't realise, until now, just how cynophobic you are. All the bluster and smart-arsing about 'picking up warm turds', your constant cl aims to have absolute, incontrovertible knowledge of the behaviour of every dog and dog-owner on Earth, and your refusal to accept that there are many responsible dog-owners - perhaps even, as I believe, a majority who fall into the 'responsible' category - is, I have a very strong suspicion, nothing more than a manifestation and expression of your own fear.

"I shit myself every time I see a dog, but I'm ashamed of my fear so, rather than admitting it and facing it, I attempt to mask it by complaining loudly about everything to do with dogs and their owners" would be a far more honest reaction than trying to deflect your own phobia on to people who are happy and comfortable with dogs.

I strongly recommend you to get therapy for your fear. There's no shame in admitting, and getting help with, your phobias.

This is well worth reading...

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Feb 18 - 04:23 AM

Don't be ridiculous, John. It isn't every dog and dog-owner on earth. Just most of 'em! Wanting to own a dog is infantile. Get real friends instead! They won't give you the same unconditional "love" (aka "where's my next bowl of Chappie?"), but they'll challenge you to become a better human being!

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Raggytash
Date: 16 Feb 18 - 05:01 AM

Doug, you may well be a responsible dog owner but next time your in Whitby come and take a walk with me from my house down my local pub (I'll buy the beer) and I'll demonstrate there are many irresponsible dog owners there are, it's like taking a Slalom course around the dog shit.

PS I'm not volunteering to clean your shoes afterwards !!!

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Raggytash
Date: 16 Feb 18 - 05:33 AM

That should have read "you're or you are"

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Senoufou
Date: 16 Feb 18 - 06:29 AM

Ah, I can see we're lucky here in our small village, because the dog-owners are very assiduous about clearing up after their dogs. If they didn't, people would notice and tackle them about it.
Our pub, The Fox, is a very good restaurant as well as a bar, and dogs are allowed. But most country pubs in Norfolk would let dogs in, it's traditional.

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 16 Feb 18 - 06:52 AM

Raggy,
I'm not trying to defend anti-social dog owners. If you read my post of 15 Feb 18 - 4:42 PM, you will see that I have to avoid other people's dog mess, just like you. I find it intensely annoying when I make the effort and other people don't. The problem extends to more than "just a few irresponsible dog owners" but, at the same time, there are more of us responsible dog owners than you give credit for.

I put dog fouling into the same category as general littering. I put my litter into a bin or take it home with me but, when I am out and about, I pass many discarded drinks cans, sweet wrappers, take-away trays, cigarette ends, and lumps of chewing gum. Dog mess has added health hazards but, like fly tipping, it is a sign of a "couldn't care less" attitude to society. I try to limit the effects of my actions on others as a general rule of life. There are plenty of others who do the same but, sadly, lots of people who don't.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Feb 18 - 07:24 AM

Quite so, Doug, same here.

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Feb 18 - 07:30 AM

Steve, I have many human friends - I'm far from short of human companionship, and 'twas ever thus.

Denial is a common phenomenon amongst people with phobias. Recognition of their phobia, and acceptance of its existence, is their first step in their rehabilitation. I strongly recommend it to you.

Of course, I could be wrong. My wife says that the brains of people who don't like dogs have a major wiring fault. I think she's probably right.

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Feb 18 - 07:45 AM

Are you a qualified distance-psychiatrist, John?

More likely you are one of those people who simply can't see that there is nothing wrong with disliking unruly, noisy, dirty shitting machines on our streets and beaches. It isn't the likes of me you should be gunning for and getting all defensive with - it's the vast numbers of incompetent, selfish, couldn't-care-less dog owners who are severely letting your side down. They are your problem, not me.

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Raggytash
Date: 16 Feb 18 - 07:59 AM

Backswoodsman, I often get the feeling that people consider there is something wrong with me because I don't particularly like dogs.

As yet it is not compulsory to like dogs, although you'd be forgiven for thinking it was, when you listen to some dog owners.

Dogs, by and large, are smelly animals. The owners, again by and large, are accustomed to the smell and don't notice it.

I find it horrible and don't really want to experience it when having a pint or a meal out.

If people want to own a dog, fine but I don't think it is reasonable to inflict them on other people, in much the same way as I don't think it is reasonable to smoke in public places.

Should liking dogs ever become compulsory I, for one, will emigrate.

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 16 Feb 18 - 08:06 AM

Hey Raggy,
I've just noticed your offer to buy the beer. That could be worth searching out an old pair of trainers that I could throw in the bin after the walk.

DC
:-)

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Raggytash
Date: 16 Feb 18 - 08:18 AM

I am a man of my word Doug, the offer stands!

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Feb 18 - 08:38 AM

I don't want other people's squalling, snotty brats, yawping and bawling, shitting their nappies, and strewing food around around when I'm eating and drinking, Raggy, but the buggers insist on inflicting them on me and I'm obliged to tolerate them.

I'm as outraged by bad dog-owners as you and Steve, I get seriously pissed-off at dog-shit left lying around in the streets and other public areas, I'm annoyed by owners who see me with my dog on the lead but who still allow theirs to charge around free in inappropriate places.

But I get just as pissed-off at the litter, discarded food, broken glass, and other detritus strewn around by others - why do you reserve your venom for my dog when the streets and public areas of our towns resemble the council tip?

I get very angry when all owners and their dogs are tarred with the same brush, as you and Steve (two people whose views are usually so reasonable, and with whom I generally agree) insist on doing.

And why should I not be able to eat and drink with my dog lying quietly under my table disturbing nobody, just because the bloke across the way is an over-imaginative, squeamish moaner?

Give and take. Live and let live. The way forward.

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Raggytash
Date: 16 Feb 18 - 09:37 AM

" why do you reserve your venom for my dog when the streets and public areas of our towns resemble the council tip? "

I reserve my "venom" as you put it because this thread is about dogs.

If you were to open a thread about litter, discarded food, broken glass, and other detritus strewn around by others you would find me equally vociferous as yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Feb 18 - 09:44 AM

Exactly. And in any case, finding culprits in other spheres of human activity doesn't justify the wrongdoing being discussed. "It isn't just me, Miss, so that makes it OK" is an all-too-common ploy on Mudcat.

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Feb 18 - 10:04 AM

My wife says that the brains of people who don't like dogs have a major wiring fault.

Spoken with the true, evangelical, self-centered, hubristic bombast of the typical dog-worshiper.

I don't want other people's squalling, snotty brats, ... I'm obliged to tolerate them.

You seem to be missing at least one salient point - the "brats" are HUMANS ---- and the dogs are ANIMALS.

And why should I not be able to eat and drink with my dog lying quietly under my table disturbing nobody.

Possibly because: 1. human rights take precedence over the "rights" of animals (animals have no "rights", per se) 2. because you might want to consider the comfort, health and feelings of persons other than yourself?

And before you take off on your "phobic" spiel, I have owned dogs, I have owned cats - for that matter I've owned horses and goats. I wouldn't consider bringing any of the four into a pub or restaurant. And yes, I have cleaned up horseshit deposited on property not my own.

Me & my dog first & devil take the hindmost. The way backwards.

But I suppose it could be worse - you could be campaigning on behalf of pet monkeys.

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Raggytash
Date: 16 Feb 18 - 03:38 PM

Out of order Backwoodsman, way out of order.

Hopefully a mod will delete that post and save you some embarrassment.

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Senoufou
Date: 16 Feb 18 - 04:02 PM

That's not a very nice word to use on here Backwoodsman. I'm surprised at you.

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Raggytash
Date: 16 Feb 18 - 04:46 PM

Hi Doug, to emphasise my previous points I am helped by an article in todays local paper.


Enough is enough!

Whilst I accept there are some responsible dog owners my experience tells me that the majority are not responsible, certainly by events in my town.

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Raggytash
Date: 16 Feb 18 - 04:49 PM

Just one more thing ......... the article maintains that "A significant number of offenders have been dealt with" I am aware of only three prosecutions in the last year.

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Feb 18 - 05:06 PM

From Raggytash's link:

“Except for the most unfortunate among us who tread in what has not been picked up, the rest of us are treading in the smears left behind from what has been picked up and trampling it into shops, cafes and even doctors' surgeries.”

Hear hear!

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Feb 18 - 05:44 PM

That's not a very nice word to use on here Backwoodsman. I'm surprised at you.

Surprised? Hardly.

Tyical dog-worshipper response when confronted with reality.

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 16 Feb 18 - 05:53 PM

Here in North East Lincolnshire, the local council has just announced the privatisation of dog fouling and litter enforcement. Only 69 fines have been handed out since 2012 for both dog fouling and littering, so there has clearly been a lack of enforcement even though the evidence is there to see. According to the article, it is the "number one problem" that councillors here about from residents.

I will be pleased if we see an improvement but somehow I feel uneasy, even as a responsible law abiding citizen, with a private company, which is motivated by profit, handing out fixed penalties.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 16 Feb 18 - 05:57 PM

or even

..... that councillors hear about .....

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Feb 18 - 08:49 PM

There does appear to be a mindset abroad among many dog-owners that there's something tragically wrong with anyone who doesn't want their dog to jump up at them with muddy paws, to sniff their crutch, to hassle their besandalled feet, to charge at them on the beach from 200 yards away, to put up with that horrid dog smell in pubs and cafes, who doesn't find their constant yapping amusing, who doesn't accept dogshit everywhere as an unavoidable fact of life... Thing is, sweary-John, "live and let live" apropos of dogs appears to be a rather skewed philosophy. It would be better expressed as "Me and my cur can do what the hell we like and you'd better live with it, you tragic git. That's what 'live and let live' means in MY world, cnut!" Nice!

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Thompson
Date: 18 Feb 18 - 05:02 PM

Senoufou, here you are: PENINKULMA - the distance the sound of a dog barking will travel; around three-and-a-third miles.

There's a theory that dogs taught early humans about affection, by the way.

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: keberoxu
Date: 18 Feb 18 - 05:06 PM

Ah, Thompson, good on you for locating that word at long last.

Too little too late, though --
this thread has gone to the kind of noisemakers
who give cats and dogs
-- especially fighting-like-cats-and-dogs --
aaagh, drop it.

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Feb 18 - 05:09 PM

There's an established fact that dogs have and each and every day are teaching humans about the power of annoyance.

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Feb 18 - 05:10 PM

Join the dog-brigade's selfish mindset, keberoxou.

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: keberoxu
Date: 19 Feb 18 - 07:04 PM

as for the Peninkulma:

it seems it is measured, not in miles, but in versts.

And there is a difference between
the Russian verst
and
the Finnish verst.

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Senoufou
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 06:24 PM

Driving out of our village we passed our neighbours out with Logie and Molly this morning. They're looking in fine condition and were obviously enjoying their walk. The dogs were covered in mud, so they'd been round the lakes and across the fields.

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 06:49 PM

And soon Logie and Molly will be taken into the Pub where they can smear the mud and get the stink over a host of poor, unsuspecting patrons.

You go, dog-worshippers!

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: keberoxu
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 06:59 PM

Sic 'em.

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Senoufou
Date: 22 Feb 18 - 03:31 AM

Nah, their owners don't go in the Fox pub. The lady is quite ill with kidney problems and she doesn't drink alcohol.

What does sic'em mean? I'm quite intrigued!

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 Feb 18 - 05:01 AM

I was in a local pub (well known for it's resemblance to Crufts) on Monday afternoon.

A couple came in with a dog which proceeded to snap and bark at everything that moved. They said "oh he doesn't like Collies", the said collie being in another area of the pub.

It snapped, yapped, barked and generally made a big fuss the entire time they were there. Eventually they got the (large) hint that the other people in the pub were getting cheesed off with it and left.

My question is. They must know the dog behaves like that why the hell did they bring it into the pub.

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Senoufou
Date: 22 Feb 18 - 06:05 AM

Ah, I've just googled it. It apparently means 'Attack!' How fascinating, I'd never heard it before!

The owners of that badly-behaved dog should have trained it more assiduously before taking it anywhere. It was obviously out of control.
(Same thing applies to very noisy, rude children in pubs. I like children very much, but they should be trained to conduct themselves properly when out and about.)

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Greg F.
Date: 22 Feb 18 - 08:36 AM

They must know the dog behaves like that why the hell did they bring it into the pub.

Typical dog-worshipper behavior. See above, 18 Feb 18 - 05:10 PM , 16 Feb 18 - 08:49 PM, 16 Feb 18 - 10:04 AM, 16 Feb 18 - 07:59 AM, 16 Feb 18 - 07:45 AM & etc.

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [under]world
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Feb 18 - 05:31 PM

At the Pub
What kind of dog is that?
Its a cadaver dog.
oh i'm sorry did he just pass?
No it finds cadavers.
What for?
When we find one here we take the tip.

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: Greg F.
Date: 22 Feb 18 - 06:20 PM

Actually dogs - if selected young - are quite tasty, as I experienced when I attended a Lakota ceremony ca. 1971. So they're not ALL bad.

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: keberoxu
Date: 04 Mar 18 - 05:22 PM

Dogs in the hotel!

Extraordinary circumstances:
it's the aftermath of BombCyclone Storm Riley on the Atlantic Coast in the U.S.
Here in Massachusetts, so many families have been flooded out of house and home
that hotels as well as shelters are filled.
I have other reasons for being in a hotel this weekend, and was here as early as Thursday, before the storm hit.
Then the storm, and suddenly the hotel was full to capacity, as it would not otherwise have been.
Many of these families have dogs.

The hotel is dog-friendly and because some families are in such dire straits, the hotel is helping all it can.
Some of the families, of course,
were not flooded out --
their homes merely had power outages,
and if and when power is restored
(some will have a week to wait!),
these latter families will have homes to return to.

I feel sorry for the dogs because, take my word for it,
they do NOT want to be here. They want to go HOME.
And this is NOT HOME, and what are we DOING HERE?! say the dogs.
No, not like a talking movie or anything --
but trust me, these dogs have excellent powers of non-verbal communication.
Trembling, some of them, like little leaves. Or big leaves.
Then there was the owner who hoisted his terrier to one shoulder,
a very wide-eyed terrier,
and the startled owner said, "He's CLINGING to me."

Now, the human children have life a little easier,
because this hotel has got
an indoor heated swimming pool. Whoopee!
You should have heard it yesterday, Saturday evening.
Every swim-worthy child in the hotel was in that pool
and you could hear the joyful noise of it from one end of the ground floor to the other.

Which also got on the dogs' nerves.
We'll all be relieved when this is past.

Subject: RE: BS: dogs in the [neighbor]hood
From: keberoxu
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 06:10 PM

And on the heels of the previous storm, Riley,
comes Quinn which formed on the Pacific Coast
before Riley turned up in the Atlantic;
now Quinn follows Riley, crossing the US from west to east,
and bringing MORE SNOW.
The local rivers are flooded as it is.
Power is still being restored to entire communities.

The big difference is that
Riley was boosted by a full moon and its outstanding high tides,
while Quinn's tides will not be as freakish.

I fear that some of these families -- children, dogs, and all --
will have to ride out BOTH storm systems without power in their homes.
Not to speak of the homeless families.