Tech: GPS quits when close so I never arrive

Subject: RE: Tech: GPS quits when close so I never arrive
From: Amos
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 11:32 PM

Siri and I have a good working relationship. I have learned to trust it in general, and to recognize when it is fucking up, and take the reins back.

Joe's smarmy remark was unfair--it was just one loop where it confused two roads that were right next to each other.

Anyway, we always got to the Getaway before dark!

Subject: RE: Tech: GPS quits when close so I never arrive
From: leeneia
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 10:16 PM

I generally find our GPS helpful, but there are exceptions.

1) getting lost completely. One day we were headed for the central part of a town of about 5000 people. Instead the GPS got us into a trailer park out in the country.

2) In ancient European cities with tiny streets and many one-ways, it simply cannot cope.

3) I have friends who were going to visit cousins in a town with Shore in its name. The GPS tried to drive them into the ocean (where the shore is.)

4) It insists on a complete address. I was dismayed that it cannot take you to a small town of 300 people. NO, it demands to know exactly where in Cottonwood Falls you want to go.

Nonetheless, when you're going somewhere you've never been before, it's a real comfort.

Subject: RE: Tech: GPS quits when close so I never arrive
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 11:12 AM

in a format which is generally hands-free

Only prob, Nige, is that studies have shown that the advantage of "handa free" is a myth, and its just as distracting for drivers as is "hands on".

I am now just as much alarmed by, and antagonistic towards cyclists who isolate themselves from traffic & road conditions

Yup- yet another way technology is making our lives better........

Subject: RE: Tech: GPS quits when close so I never arrive
From: DaveRo
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 04:21 AM

LORAN C - which was a navigation systen but not a satellite navigation system - was recently turned off in Europe.

Subject: RE: Tech: GPS quits when close so I never arrive
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 03:52 AM

SATNAV(uppercase)? - idk.

wiki here tells us about
BeiDou ( China) \ Galileo (EU) \ GLONASS (Russia ) \ GPS (United States ) \ NAVIC (India ) \ QZSS (Japan )
but mentions satnav(lower case) as a generic name.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satellite_navigation?
... A satellite navigation system with global coverage may be termed a?global navigation satellite system?(GNSS).
As of December 2016, only the?United States'?Global Positioning System?(GPS),?Russia's?GLONASS?and the?European Union's?Galileo?are global operational GNSSs.
The European Union's Galileo GNSS is scheduled to be fully operational by 2020.
?China?is in the process of expanding its regional?BeiDou Navigation Satellite System?into the global?BeiDou-2 GNSS?by 2020.
?India,?France?and?Japan?are in the process of developing regional navigation and augmentation systems as well. ...

There are links there so you might find a description of systems which have been turned off.

Subject: RE: Tech: GPS quits when close so I never arrive
From: EBarnacle
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 05:12 PM

I was under the impression that SATNAV had been turned off in favor of GPS years ago. Am I wrong?

Subject: RE: Tech: GPS quits when close so I never arrive
From: leeneia
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 12:14 PM

I agree, punkfolkrocker.

I get AAA magazine. They had an article recently which stated that programming a satnav while driving is as distracting as balancing one's checkbook while driving.

Subject: RE: Tech: GPS quits when close so I never arrive
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 08:03 AM

As a life long militant cyclist, until arthritis set in to my knees and feet,
I have a natural dislike for certain selfish dangerous motorists, but...

In the last few years since smart phones became the norm,
I am now just as much alarmed by, and antagonistic towards cyclists who isolate themselves from traffic & road conditions
wearing earphones listening to calls and music,
while their eyes are focused down on their handle bar mounted phone/GPS/heart rate monitor devices...

They put far too much trust in their flimsy cycling helmets...

I dislike them even more so when they cowardly avoid roads and cycle on pavements.
oblivious to pedestrians...

Subject: RE: Tech: GPS quits when close so I never arrive
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 03:53 AM

Infotainment console.
Yup - more useless techno-shit to insure that there are distracted drivers to cause accidents.

No, just combining what a lot of car users will have in-car anyway (phone satnav radio/cd) in a format which is generally hands-free, and does not clutter the dashboard, or line-of-sight, when driving.
As it's centrally placed below the dashboard it is suitable for use by the driver or the passenger

Subject: RE: Tech: GPS quits when close so I never arrive
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 02:55 PM

By default, "tech" goes in the music section because much of tech has to do with use of technology for music or for use of Mudcat. But this one doesn't, so I'm going to move the discussion.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: GPS quits when close so I never arrive
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 02:34 PM

Infotainment console.

Yup - more useless techno-shit to insure that there are distracted drivers to cause accidents.

Subject: RE: Tech: GPS quits when close so I never arrive
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 12:15 PM

The small screen of my phone (Samsung Galaxy S5) isn't a problem for satnav use in the car. My phone just gets plugged in to the Vauxhall Corsa Infotainment console.
Instant larger screen for the satnav.

Subject: RE: Tech: GPS quits when close so I never arrive
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 05:55 AM

Nigel - pack it in.....

.. you & GUEST are not fooling anybody.
But you are actively introducing your own conflict agenda into what was a very good thread.....

Subject: RE: Tech: GPS quits when close so I never arrive
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 04:30 AM

Smug wanker GUEST -

I thought that 'Guest' was trying to be helpful, and all he gets is abuse.
From your previous post it is clear that this (the taxi problem) has happened to you more than once. Guest was providing you with a simple solution, which you could have used any time after the first time you had the problem.

Subject: RE: Tech: GPS quits when close so I never arrive
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jan 18 - 01:50 PM

Or could the previous guest simply be a Londoner where taxi drivers are predominantly English speaking so doesn't see the problem?

Subject: RE: Tech: GPS quits when close so I never arrive
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Jan 18 - 08:38 AM

Smug wanker GUEST - has it not occurred to you...

.. that no mater how much a passenger in the back seat may try to direct them after the first wrong turn,
they can't or won't listen because they are too engrossed and bewildered following their satnav in an unfamiliar town centre...

I could also mention some of these drivers may have restricted English Language,
but you may very well be the kind of arse headed GUEST who'll jump at any chance to berate immigrants...???


[mods - please dont delete GUEST and my posts..]

Subject: RE: Tech: GPS quits when close so I never arrive
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jan 18 - 08:23 AM

when they take us on a scenic tour of the town roundabouts and one way system, then expect us to pay for the mystery tour....

You could of course direct them. Or does that never occur to you?

Subject: RE: Tech: GPS quits when close so I never arrive
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Jan 18 - 07:04 AM

Then there's the occasional new taxi drivers who rely on satnav to drive me, the wife, and a weeks shopping from Tesco to our town centre house.
A simple obvious route, two or three minutes by car.

Hilarious... no not really.. when they take us on a scenic tour of the town roundabouts and one way system, then expect us to pay for the mystery tour....

Subject: RE: Tech: GPS quits when close so I never arrive
From: Mrrzy
Date: 09 Jan 18 - 06:56 AM

Rob, coolio.

I am reliably informed that Waze, if that is how it is spelled, is a better app for navigating around traffic in real time.

We got back from the Eclipse that way. Z.

Subject: RE: Tech: GPS quits when close so I never arrive
From: GUEST,Peter
Date: 09 Jan 18 - 06:42 AM

Google maps on my phone has current traffic conditions. When I was in a Traffic jam on the A3 due to a hold up on the M25 I just asked the phone for directions to my home postcode and promptly got a good route down the next country lane.

Postcodes are risky for business locations. A company that I worked at had a PO box with a dedicated postcode which resolved to the delivery office location. That caught out several visitors.

I have noticed several events in rural locations giving a "satnav postcode" to get around these problems.

Subject: RE: Tech: GPS quits when close so I never arrive
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 09 Jan 18 - 05:29 AM

BobL: The problem is that GPS has its own co-ordinate system, which doesn't exactly match the one used by maps. This is not helpful when filling stations are shown in the wrong street and you're running on empty. This happens when a place's lat & long were measured from a map rather than read from a satnav.

GPS is associated, in its native mode, with the WGS84 Geodetic Datum, which is the same datum used by Google Maps. Google chose that datum specifically because GPS coordinates are calculated in it when operating "normally".

However, most GNSS systems marketed *as* GNSS systems (GPS is a GNSS - or Global Navigation Satellite System system - of which there are several) are capable of allowing their output to be transformed into local datum AND projection (eg UK National Grid projection on OSGB36 Datum). So in UK, eg, I can easily set up my GPS system to output coordinates that match my OS map.

Satnav on phones will be using Google Maps , which are in WGS84 anyway, so it's unlikely that the filling station will be shown in the "wrong" street due to datums being different.

The vast majority of errors or misdirection seen in satnav systems are not down to the GNSS/ GPS side ( ie the actual satellite positioning systems) but to how the mapping and direction algorithms are handled in the element of the system that the satellite positions are fed into.

Postcodes and Zip codes are one source of ambiguity, as mentioned already by several people above.

Update frequency of the mapping is another. There is a whole area around Dorchester in UK that my VW Nav system, updated in 2017, doesn't recognise, and I know that these roads have been there for at least 5 years, so its not the GPS that's "wrong" but lousy updating of maps by VW.

A third source of problems are route-selection algorithms, which is the hardest part of any satnav system to get right, and to keep updated, as transport systems evolve ( ie a road being designated one way). I've seen large container trucks stuck down tiny rural roads near where I live "because the satnav told me to take this route"....well yes, but, Mr driver, "are you aware that there are specific satnav map sets for freight hauliers, using algorithms which factor in truck size and avoid narrow roads, low bridges etc?" It's just that many haulage companies use standard satnav systems rather than freight haulage systems, because they're a lot cheaper. Until your truck gets stuck under a low railway bridge!

Subject: RE: Tech: GPS quits when close so I never arrive
From: CupOfTea
Date: 08 Jan 18 - 09:52 PM

Dear Freddy,

Siberia on the Heights is more of a when than a where designation. Facebook won't let me use that for where I live, either! I live in Cleveland Heights, one of several suburbs with Heights as part of the name. Cleveland Heights being the first, with many businesses advertising such a prime locale as "at May Company on the Heights." Cleveland Heights streets are also mainly given clearly English names (within a few blocks are: Eaton, Scarborough, Monmouth, Coventry, Dartmoor, Exeter...)

We are also on the leading edge of the snow belt, top of the first foothill of the Apalachian mountains, and we get dumped on with substantially more snow than just down Cedar hill to the west. Thus, the combination of winter in this Anglophile location has me calling it Siberia on the Heights when the weather is severe enough- like the last couple of weeks.

Joanne in Ohio 44118

Subject: RE: Tech: GPS quits when close so I never arrive
From: Mrrzy
Date: 08 Jan 18 - 08:16 AM

I will note that the GPS had quit on me several blocks before I found that wrongly-numbered place.

Yeah, I always check the map first, before going. It seemed obvious, on the map. Mighta been, in daylight...

Subject: RE: Tech: GPS quits when close so I never arrive
From: GUEST,ripov
Date: 07 Jan 18 - 06:11 PM

I nearly got converted a few years ago;- bought a nokia phone with the intention of using nokia maps. but m$ bought nokia, and dumped the maps. So, although a satnav would occasionally be handy if going to a new site first thing monday morning, I just stick to the good old OS maps, occasionally buying a new one if it's not in the collection. much more useful;- informative, interesting, decorative - and accurate!

Subject: RE: Tech: GPS quits when close so I never arrive
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Jan 18 - 07:56 PM

Well said Greg X2!

I live in one of those remote rural postcodes, and your satnav won't get you to within 3/4 mile of my house. I kind of like it that way. It's ok with me because, in spite of my many mental limitations, after 31 years living here I can just about find my house. The downside is that I've had to talk hundreds of delivery drivers down the convoluted farm lanes leading to my house...

Subject: RE: Tech: GPS quits when close so I never arrive
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 06 Jan 18 - 07:32 PM

Suggestion: Know the limitations of your device and use it sensibly.

It shouldn't replace but, rather, complement the traditional paper map & compass. It is one more tool in the box, along with Google Maps, Street View etc. You don't need to be afraid of new technology so long as remain in charge.

DC

Subject: RE: Tech: GPS quits when close so I never arrive
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Jan 18 - 05:55 PM

Well, Steve, All I can say is I've personally seen far too many individuals sent on to dead-end roads, roads that went nowhere, roads that didn't exist, cow paths that passed for roads, ways over cliffs, or into quarries & etc.

Part and parcel of the result of letting machines "think" for humans.

The techno-addicted are in serious trouble.

Subject: RE: Tech: GPS quits when close so I never arrive
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 06 Jan 18 - 02:41 PM

Nice one, Greg.

Some of my friends use their phones but as I'm retired and I know I'm travelling to a new destination I always go on Google Earth on my PC and check out the area/roads/streets well in advance, and how to get there. Then if needed I have a street plan in the car as well. I have copies of the street plan books for all the areas I'm likely to visit, oh, and a magnifying glass as well. The only things that thwart me are roads blocked off for road works and similar, and these are not always flagged up on the net.

Subject: RE: Tech: GPS quits when close so I never arrive
From: EBarnacle
Date: 06 Jan 18 - 02:31 PM

Always carry the strongest flashlight you have. That may give you a chance to light up the street number of the address you are looking for.

Subject: RE: Tech: GPS quits when close so I never arrive
From: leeneia
Date: 06 Jan 18 - 02:27 PM

Hi, Mrrzy. You did what I was going to suggest - call your host when in the neighborhood. I'm glad you had a nice time.

Subject: RE: Tech: GPS quits when close so I never arrive
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Jan 18 - 12:34 PM

Suggestion: Try a good paper map & a compass. Might save your life one day.

Subject: RE: Tech: GPS quits when close so I never arrive
From: Mr Red
Date: 06 Jan 18 - 11:16 AM

Complaining to Goggle

You never know if the info makes it to the system. I ain't never had acknowledgment. I have seen it twice where you can exit a rural junction but it won't let you in if you return. Given the coincidence I would say that is a pretty systemic bug.
Told 'em about it. Haven't checked since I know the route now.

Subject: RE: Tech: GPS quits when close so I never arrive
From: Mrrzy
Date: 06 Jan 18 - 09:16 AM

I have to add the update that I am also an idiot. I was looking for #930; I found the area for numbers 915-945, but they all turned out to be odd numbers. Went across the street, saw #204, so I thought I was in the wrong place, oddly enough.

Much later and after a few phone calls to mutual friends (I didn't have the host's number) it turned out I *had* been in the 920-950's... but had seen APARTMENT number 204.

Then the apartment numbers went 301, 201, 101, 305. I was looking for 305, so I turned around when I hit 101, of course. More phone calls. But it was a totally fun evening and the host had a framed diploma from Star Fleet on the wall!

Subject: RE: Tech: GPS quits when close so I never arrive
From: Mr Red
Date: 06 Jan 18 - 08:37 AM

but UK postcode positions depend on the spread of addresses sharing the same code.

pedantically - I think that is the amount of mail the area receives. In extremis, a company gets their own.

Subject: RE: Tech: GPS quits when close so I never arrive
From: JHW
Date: 06 Jan 18 - 05:36 AM

You may need to disable your Robert Louis Stephenson app.
To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive.

Subject: RE: Tech: GPS quits when close so I never arrive
From: BobL
Date: 06 Jan 18 - 03:00 AM

The problem is that GPS has its own co-ordinate system, which doesn't exactly match the one used by maps. This is not helpful when filling stations are shown in the wrong street and you're running on empty. This happens when a place's lat & long were measured from a map rather than read from a satnav.

Subject: RE: Tech: GPS quits when close so I never arrive
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 05 Jan 18 - 09:02 PM

Sorry Joanne\ CupOfTea you are officially lost.
Google maps doesn't have a
Siberia on the Heights.
:-(
!;-)


But you are right to say " Go ahead and complain to Google- without input they'll never get it right! "
googlemaps does have a button for "add a missing place" or "report a problem" button,depending on what computer you're using, so it is definitely worth submitting info when you can.

I've added several village halls which haven't previously been on Google.

~~~~~~~
Mrrzy, When LG says "You're Here" read it as "This is as close as we can get. You'll probably need to ask someone nearby to identify the actual house."

Subject: RE: Tech: GPS quits when close so I never arrive
From: CupOfTea
Date: 05 Jan 18 - 01:25 PM

I try to never head out somewhere without first going over the map directions on my IPad & where things get fuzzy, looking at Google Street view helps enormously. Fer instance: trying to find a new open mic location that was right on the riverside, but UNDER a high level bridge was impossible to spot with the map, but street view cruising the area, I could see it and figure out best approach and parking. I always liked directions with visual landmarks, anyhow. Before digital maps, I would get out local map books to plot trips to new locations.

Google maps and GPS don't always take you the best way, certainly not the way a local would do on a known route. The difficulties you experienced may be part of that flaw, and a work-around in planning ahead might be the only way to keep sane. A block away from me, on an old, ordinarily numbered street, lives a friend whose students NEVER find her house using their phones, as it insists she's two blocks farther along.

Go ahead and complain to Google- without input they'll never get it right!
Happy travels to easy locations.

Joanne in Siberia on the Heights

Subject: RE: Tech: GPS quits when close so I never arrive
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Jan 18 - 01:02 PM

I can see why small, portable 'smart phones' are very useful for many purposes, but as PFR says just above, there are tradeoffs.

As a couple of others have said, I use the visual aids from Google Earth or Google Maps on a full sized desktop computer to 'see' where I am going.... and often the street view to identify the exact spot. Then I choose MY preferred route to the general area. I don't have a smart phone or GPS, and the one time I used it (in a rental car) it simply didn't show my destination (a ferry crossing). I went back and took a long way home and, once there, I looked it up and it was obvious what I should have done. (I was within a few miles of the location).

Several years ago some friends were going to follow me to my house from a concert, and as I watched in the mirror, they did...until the last 2 minutes... then they relied on GPS and turned down a dead-end street and got lost. It took them 10-15 extra minutes to drive the last 2 minutes.

It's a great tool, but it has its limits.

Subject: RE: Tech: GPS quits when close so I never arrive
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 05 Jan 18 - 07:19 AM

Visited Exeter for a weekend. First time I'd ben there in about 30 years.

Betwen us me and the wife had a sony android, motorola android, and nokia win 8 phones...
Using all 3 still didn't stop us going round in circles for ages
searching for a well recomended old cider puib...

My problem was that the 4 - 5 inch screens were all so cluttered and obscured by 'helpful' toolbars, overlays, menus, and suchlike,
there was barely enough map left visible for us to see where we were...

Subject: RE: Tech: GPS quits when close so I never arrive
From: Mo the caller
Date: 05 Jan 18 - 04:36 AM

The size of my postcode area is a big annoyance. I've had parcels dumped on my doorstep and bank-statements posted through the letterbox for neighbours. And the bank statement was delivered my the postman who really should have know better and been more careful. No excuse to dump a parcel without seeing anyone, either, though they do it regularly - sometimes at the end of my long drive where passers are more likely to see it than I am.

Subject: RE: Tech: GPS quits when close so I never arrive
From: DaveRo
Date: 05 Jan 18 - 04:15 AM

Yes, in rural locations the UK postcode 'area' can be quite big and the lat/long position could be in the middle of a field. Most satnavs will guide you to the nearest road to that position, which may be the wrong road. In towns they usually get you to the correct street IME.

Some cheap phones don't have gps at all and google will use position based on cell towers, wifi access points, and (it's rumoured) nearby phones. Wifi-only iPads used not to have gps chips - maybe still don't.

Subject: RE: Tech: GPS quits when close so I never arrive
From: Howard Jones
Date: 05 Jan 18 - 03:45 AM

I think Doug is correct, the problem is not the accuracy of the GPS but that a postcode covers a largeish area and the navigation software doesn't refine it down to individual house numbers but simply brings you to the centre of the postcode. My postcode contains about a dozen houses, and a satnav will usually leave you some distance from my house, and around a corner.

A colleague who was very proud of his satnav, at a time when they were still fairly new, once tried to use it to visit one of the company's sites in a rural location. Instead it took him to the post office sorting office in a nearby town. Postcodes for larger businesses are often not geographic.

Subject: RE: Tech: GPS quits when close so I never arrive
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 05 Jan 18 - 03:28 AM

Addresses are grouped into post codes for mail delivery. Satnavs and Google Maps use these as their most local reference point. If you enter a house number, they will identify the centre of the relevant post code and send you there.

My own house is in a post code group of 22 and is about a quarter of the way down the road. It always shows up as being 6 houses further on. I can move it close to my house if I use the post code for the opposite side of the road, who's centre just happens to line up with my house.

DC


...

Subject: RE: Tech: GPS quits when close so I never arrive
From: DaveRo
Date: 05 Jan 18 - 03:22 AM

I don't know how old this is, but worth checking if you have a similar 'accuracy' setting.

Then there's the position of zip/postal codes. I don't know about zip codes, but UK postcode positions depend on the spread of addresses sharing the same code.

Subject: RE: Tech: GPS quits when close so I never arrive
From: Mr Red
Date: 05 Jan 18 - 02:55 AM

try what2words.com you can at least have fun with the words - that (without propmting) came up as ............. guilty.improving.precautions . Vaguely appropriate.

When I need to know what it looks like I use Goggle Earth and spend time at the laptop when I have more thinking time. Trying to see the terrain, In the UK a rural Post Code covers a big area which amounts to the same problemo.

It looks like you are having trouble matching an address to anything concrete. GPS doesn't fair so well in the presence of high buildings, especially in cities with loads of them.

Subject: RE: Tech: GPS quits when close so I never arrive
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Jan 18 - 02:26 AM

I use actual maps for "macronavigation" to get me to the approximate location. Then I use Google maps to take me the rest of the way. I'm better off if I actually look at the map on the screen and pinpoint my destination. I've occasionally used the spoken directions when I'm driving at night, but that gets me hopelessly lost more often than not.
If I use Google Maps as an assistant, it's great. If I totally rely on it, I'm in trouble.

And if you think Apple does a better job, let me tell you about Amos and his indiscreet relationship with Siri....

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: GPS quits when close so I never arrive
From: EBarnacle
Date: 05 Jan 18 - 12:55 AM

GPS's of various types are notorious for not knowing the correct location for street addresses. If you are lucky the will get you within a couple of hundred feet of the correct address but on the right street.

Subject: RE: Tech: GPS quits when close so I never arrive
From: meself
Date: 05 Jan 18 - 12:55 AM

Sounds like something that would be in a late Dylan song: 'You're gettin' so close, you think you're alive,/Then your GPS quits so you never arrive". Or something.

Subject: RE: Tech: GPS quits when close so I never arrive
From: Mrrzy
Date: 04 Jan 18 - 11:52 PM

Newest, I think LG6. Aha, just say Directions but not Start?