BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)

Subject: BS: Football
From: Raggytash
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 06:44 AM

I can't say I'm really bothered all that much about football, I will watch the highlights and occasionally put on a whole match and read a book while it is on raising my head only when the commentary indicates something "exciting" is happening (it rarely is).

Contrast this to Hurling or Gaelic Football. In these two sports the action is fast, flowing, fluent, furious and fascinating. The players are all amateurs, they play merely for the glory and a successful team will be thought of as heroes long after they retire.

All in all much better games to watch.

Subject: RE: BS: Football
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 07:10 AM

Televised Subbuteo...????

Subject: RE: BS: Football
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 09:42 AM

Sorry for mucking your thread up, Raggytash. It's just that Mr Red got me gander up with his sideswipes at footie fans.

Tell you what. I'll copy and paste my post here right now and perhaps some kind mod would delete the post from your thread...?

Football non-fans constantly attacking football for being tribal is, ironically, tribal. So you don't like football. Well a lot of people do. A couple of years ago I tried, months in advance, to get a ticket for a relatively humdrum, non-crucial home match at Anfield (Liverpool vs Villa). No chance.

There a lot wrong with football. Players' pay at the top of the game is scandalous. Most league footballers don't get tens of thousands a week, however. We tend to dwell on the most egregious examples, which are actually a small minority. Ticket prices are outlandish in consequence (though you'd pay approximately as much for a decent seat at the opera or for a symphony concert). There's far too much corporate involvement. Some top clubs are bankrolled by billionaires who can buy or sell clubs at will and that's not really fair. Transfer fees at the top are ludicrous, and they are boosted further by parasitic agents taking huge slices of dosh. Television rights are bought for billions a year. We all pay for that eventually via advertising, even though you have to pay to see the matches on the telly. Which I do.

But wassup? It's a perfect example of capitalism in action. So is Tesco, Asda and Morrisons, but I still use them. Another thing that will, I know, never convince the footie-haters: at its best, which is often, it's a beautiful, flowing game that requires consummate skill, tactics and fitness. It isn't popular for nothing. And its popularity, whether you like it or not, crosses class boundaries. It's a great diversion for millions of people who haven't got much colour in their lives. And what's so wrong with diversions? And, let's face it, Liverpool FC are simply the greatest in waiting...

Subject: RE: BS: Football
From: Raggytash
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 10:05 AM

Quite honestly Steve the diversion was much needed relief from the lack of comprehension in some quarters.

Having said that I don't really comprehend the tribal nature of football. I've witnessed it often enough but I can't get so emotionally involved over 22 men kicking an inflated pigs bladder around a pitch watched by 50,000 referees.

I'm pickling Gherkins today, can't beat a pickled Gherkin.

Subject: RE: BS: Football
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 10:08 AM

Never got too much into footie myself but I used to enjoy watching Speedway at Belle Vue in the late 60s. I can sort of understand the 'tribalism' (probably should use a better word) as it happens, to a greater or lesser extent, in most sports.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Football
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 10:56 AM

'tribalism' is probably a very appropriate term due to the need (often) to segregate opposing groups of supporters.

Subject: RE: BS: Football
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 11:19 AM

In the west country region where I grew up, there was no real football teams to get excited about..

When I was 7, I was obviously caught up in the world cup winning hysteria.. but that didn't last too long.

Then I was introduced to Rugby at grammar school.
We weren't allowed to play football.

It seems to me that the brutal blood and mud fouling and punch ups footie of the past,
has been so emasculated and sanitised,
no wonder the modern game is such an anodyne fashion entertainment so increasingly appealing to teenage girls...

We watch rugby and boxing in our house.

My mrs is Welsh and proudly tribal when it comes to rugby,
she gets a real bloodthirsty adrenolin buzz off watching the tackles and bad tempered exchanges.
And now that channel 5 is showing free to view boxing with occasional Welsh boxers,
She can be heard shouting & screaming at the telly from outside our bay window onto the road....

Subject: RE: BS: Football
From: Mr Red
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 11:31 AM

It's just that Mr Red got me gander up with his sideswipes at footie fans

"More than a religion proved". Ya can't ask them to accept responsibility because of it. Not a sideswipe, a direct hit, deflected by the "not me" stratagem. It was the other tribe obviously!

And as for tribal - even a good hearted crowd are tribal. These days we don't see as much of the Milwall syndrome but it is not unknown to have an undercover French policeman in a gang of French supporters at the world cup in ie England. And if you saw Eurosport - the football ads are predominently about anti-racism. If you contrast that with a sport like MotoGP where they provide stands for Rossi yellow and Marquez orange but I ain't never heard of any antagonism because there are also Ducatista, Suziki supporters, KTM clan, Aprilia afficianados etc. More tribes, more dilute rivalry. A different kind of crowd who applaud the riders as they do their slow-down lap. F1 is in the same category (AFAIK). Tennis I would expect even more so. etc

Two teams invites more robust rivalry and it has been seen demonstrably so. Football must police itself it it wants to be respected by the majority (who don't give a toss about the over-priced game that we majority have to subsidise).

Large crowds are dangerous, tribal ones moreso. It needs regulation and review - constantly. The crowd dictate that. The rest of us demand it. The crowd think it is nanny state until ........... then they blame everyone else.

Subject: RE: BS: Football
From: Senoufou
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 12:49 PM

I know nothing about football (and could care even less!) But I'm told Norwich City aren't doing too well at the moment. Neither are Man U.
Husband is a Premier League tart though, and has a top for every team, which he wears on a whim. And a Cote d'Ivoire one (Les Elephants)

Subject: RE: BS: Football
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 01:07 PM

I've just remembered collecting metal coins stamped with footballers heads from the local Esso petrol station
back when I was in primary school...


As I didn't drive and refuel, I guess me and my mates must have been begging motorists to hand over their free coins to us....???

Subject: RE: BS: Football
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 01:58 PM

Well I see that there's plenty of anti-footie sentiment here. Of course we all subsidise it. Advertising costs money and advertisers pass the costs to us. But that's just capitalism and I assume we all operate within the capitalist system, even if some of us wish we didn't have to be of it. I almost never watch ITV or Channel 4 or 5 but I still pay more for the stuff they advertise. You could advise me not to buy that stuff, but, as I don't see the ads, I dunno what stuff it is. This website is peppered with annoying ads for stuff vaguely linked to what I might have been googling. There's no such thing as a free lunch. But I'm not bothered. You pay the same taxes that support schools and universities even if you don't have kids. My council tax pays for police that I haven't seen anywhere near my house in thirty years and for taking my rubbish, which doesn't happen because I live too far from the main road. I pay for a nuclear deterrent that I despise and I'm about to pay for a new vanity railway costing tens of billions that I'll never be able to afford to use. But my only recourse may be to vote out the buggers who want to spend my money on these hare-brained schemes. The singling-out of footie - we pay for the advertising, the policing, the clearing-up, blah blah - makes me question the motives of the people who do the singling out. To them, footie is a Bad Thing/tribal/replete with rotten role models/overpaid/overhyped/22 silly men chasing a silly ball/bloody Wayne bloody Rooney...

How about instead that it's great entertainment for millions, it adds colour to a lot of lives that lack it, it requires supreme fitness, skill and tactics, it encourages youngsters to get outside in the fresh air, it's a way of forgetting the vicissitudes of life for a little while...above all, it keeps me and Mike off the streets and gets me and him arguing about Man U and Liverpool (naturally, he's always wrong about it all the time, just like my grandad was) instead of bloody brexit and bloody Thatcher and bloody popes. Things like that are all I talk about with some people here and it's pretty hard to imbue the conversations with much bonhomie. But Mike and I are at polar opposites of the political spectrum and guess what? Never a discouraging word to one another ever crosses our keyboards. And, Mr Red, it's true that big crowds are dangerous. The most dangerous big crowds are called armies. Very few people argue that armies are a Bad Thing, not even me. Everything comes at a cost. Consider your position!

Subject: RE: BS: Football
From: MikeL2
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 03:08 PM

Hi Steve

"Your 10 Jan 18 - 01:58 PM "

You are more articulate than I am and I agree with most of your comments which you put better than me.

I have played most sports at various levels. I love most sports and these days as I am in my Eighties I watch most of it on TV. My No 1 son is able to get football match tickets and he takes me occasionally, otherwise I just would'nt be able to get there.

My family going back to my Grandfather have all been Manchester United Supporters.

My father though played Rugby League as a Semi pro for Broughton Rangers Belle Vue Rangers and Swinton.

I played football at school and represented my County. But my "ole fella" wanted me to play "rugger" and so I played both Rugby Union and League. But Union was my best love and I played for many years several clubs including Sale.

In summer I played cricket both in The Yorkshire and Cheshire Leagues.

When my rugby days were over Surprisingly I watched Football not rugby so much as I found it more exciting to watch.

I agree with Steve and his views on what is wrong with football and there is a lot.

I have played a little shinty when I was in Scotland and some Lacrosse back in England. These are crazy !!! I suffered more injuries and bruises than ever I did at football or rugby

I understand people who don't like football, that is their perrogative.

I can even understand people who support Liverpool. !!!!!!!!

At it's best football is thrilling, exciting and to me even beautiful.

Hope I haven't bored you all.

Regards

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 03:12 PM

Hurling is indeed a fascinating game

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 03:33 PM

Ahah, I see someone has expanded the title. You yanks have my sympathies. I've tried to watch American football a couple of times. This is what I've gleaned so far:

A lot of extremely-padded men stand around for several minutes.

Some kind of signal obliges them to stand in two lines.

One man throws an oddly-shaped ball along the lines.

Everybody spends the next thirty seconds trying to beat everyone else up.

After a short period of dusting-down, the process is repeated.

In the meantime, a bunch of very beautiful girls with frilly skirts right up to their delectable bottoms jump up and down on the touchline in gleeful and noisy fashion. This is, to my unrefined eye, by far the most appealing part of the game.

Am I missing something?

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 03:40 PM

Don't mock... I'm being serious...

I forgot to mention that over the last year or so,
me and the wife have followed the 2 monthly Sumo Wresting tournements on NHK News HD channel [Sky 507]

Fought over 15 days, with a daily half hour English Language highlights show...


Fascinating, and quite exciting at times...

Next tournament starts from this Sunday Jan 14...


https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/tv/sumo/

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 03:42 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, Mike, but I think my Grandad, who worked all his life in Salford docks and knew every pub in Salford, a lifelong Irish Catholic (my mum was born in Silk Street and went to Our Lady Of Grace) supported Manchester United because they were always seen to be a "Catholic club" managed by Matt Busby, a Catholic right down to his boots. Mind you, in those days United were worth supporting, what with Denis Law, Bobby Charlton, Georgie Best, Harry Gregg and, before that, the Babes. I went to Italy on a school trip in 1968 and the locals around Naples were mad about Bobby Charlton!

But Burnley had Jimmy Mac, and Liverpool were on the up...

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 04:02 PM

To the Mod who changed the thread title.

In Europe, and the UK in particular we play FOOTBALL.

In the USA you have FORMATION MUGGING.

There is absolutely no comparison between the two codes I don't know how you have the audacity to call your travesty of the format a game, never mind football.

For a start in your version the ball is very rarely kicked for crying out loud !!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 04:03 PM

I lived in Swinton for 50 years, Mike, and then only moved as far as Irlams o'th' Heights but only every sent to see them play once. At th' Heights I was half an hours walk to the Willows but never went to see Salford at all! Now I live in Yorkshire and will probably never go to see Leeds or Bradford.

I did play league at school though so at least I know What is going on. Unlike Union where I have no idea:-(

I must make an effort one day:-)

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 11:57 PM

I thought long and hard about what I should put to clarify the title. I hope it isn't too unacceptable. I think I'd agree with the consensus about the comparative quality of the two games, but I'd prefer to watch neither one. I did enjoy playing soccer, though.

So, do you have cheerleaders over there?

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 03:22 AM

From: Raggytash
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 04:02 PM
To the Mod who changed the thread title.
In Europe, and the UK in particular we play FOOTBALL.

I think what you mean is that this discussion is about "Association Football" (often shortened to either 'soccer' or 'football')
'Football' can be either Rugby Football, or Association Football.

In the US they appear to play either soccer, or a version similar to rugby football.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 04:45 AM

I a pretty sure the vast majority of people in the UK understand that Football is the association kind while Rugby is referred to as Rugby which, if we are being pedantic about it, can be league or union. As this is standard usage across all the media in he UK it is a bit daft to refer to it as anything other than football here.

The US is a different case. The term football has become common usage for the game they play there and, as a relative newcomer, 'soccer' has had to take on an alternate name.

Joe - We don't have cheerleaders. There is no need for such distractions in the games played here :-) What we do have, to add a further much misused term, is Morris dance troupes which have nothing to do with Morris dance as in the folk tradition but are groups of, usually, young ladies performing a set march/dance routine which sometimes has elements of what I have seen as cheerleading. This is done as a competitive sport in it's own right.

Confused? You will be...

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Mr Red
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 04:47 AM

Consider your position!

Not near a football stadium, especially on a Saturday. That's my position.

Football is a minority interest in the UK (and the world) or another (alt fact) way of putting it is the biggest minority - it isn't, fishing is.

The problems are

1) Politicians are shit scared of pointing to the dangers
2) until there is a disaster
3) politicians can't blame the fans in spite of a clear audit trail of their contribution to any disaster.
4) when there are deaths, all fans become victims, regardless of culpability

This could be true of other genres but not to the degree. Why is rugby, by and large, devoid of the problems? Is it crowd volume? Is it the nature of the game that sees more violence on the pitch? Is it the image of being a gentleman's game? Is it that there is less money involved? Seen as a "Northern" game? Less countries participating?

Time was, I was told by those who were there, that before WW2 children were taken to see football. And rowdy behaviour was policed by the crowds' collective admonishment to individuals. We may be returning to those days, but are we there yet? I still see evidence to the contrary. And have the days of the Glasgie wet leg** gone? I somehow doubt it.

Society has been moving towards the ME generation as each generation passes. Large crowds are dangerous. Moreso when populated by the ME generation. Or two nations are competing.

I should ask - what are the Americans doing that would appear to work in Baseball? I know Canadian Ice Hockey had an atrocious reputation at one time. What did the governing bodies do to address that?

**think splashes from someone urinating on the terraces instead of finding the toilet.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 05:02 AM

At least according to Huffpost it seems the use of the word 'soccer' has only declined in UK usage since the 1980s.
I certainly remember a time when the games were either soccer or rugby. 'Football' tended to encompass several games, including bank holiday mini-riots where an inflated bladder of some description might be found.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 05:02 AM

it isn't, fishing is.

Not comparing like with like there Mr R. Fishing is the sport with the biggest participation base but nowhere near football (or many others) as a spectator sport.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 05:16 AM

the word 'soccer' has only declined in UK usage since the 1980s

Well, first thing, the 1980s was 30 years ago. How long does something need to used for it to be become common usage? Secondly, I suspect the term soccer was not a general term for football in the UK even before that. I grew up in 50's/60s suburban Manchester and everyone I knew used the term football or 'footie'. Maybe it was a regional thing as it is now a national thing? Not that anyone but the most nit-picking pedant could give a flying f*** about it anyway...

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 06:09 AM

You are holding to your position as ultimate curmudgeon numero uno, Mr Red. Most human activities that involve participation by numbers of people, either as actors or spectators, have downsides. Three thousand people die on our roads every year. Horse racing over fences can cause horrible injuries to animals and promote gambling addiction. Protest marches often descend into violence. Referendums give terrible results. Downsides and occasional inconveniences to non-participants are part of humanity itself. Live and let live. The fact that it isn't exactly a majority who enjoy footie is no argument at all (would you use that argument against classical concerts or folk gigs? Glastonbury? Woodstock?), neither is it that millions of grown men, more than who go to football, like to spend their spare time engaged in a so-called sport that involves spearing terrified inedible fish through their bottom lips with a viciously-barbed hook. To me, watching paint dry is far more entertaining than watching snooker on the telly, but so what? Religion attracts many pejoratives, but the fact that only a minority of people attend church on Sunday is hardly a legitimate one. You see only downsides. Where's your sense of balance?

Football is too flowing to be able to accommodate cheerleaders, Dave, though what wouldn't be to like about a bit of a show just before kickoff and at half-time! When I were a little lad and going to matches at t'Gigg (Bury FC), the brass band would march out on to the pitch as on as the half-time whistle went. My mum was the registrar for years at Bury Cemetery (the dead centre of the town), which was right next door to Gigg Lane. It was more than possible for players to boot the ball over the not-very-high stand roof in between. Footballs found on graves was an occasional talking-point!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 06:13 AM

Wha...? "As soon as"

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 06:22 AM

Linking back to another thread, Swinton Lions played at Gig Lane for a while when their ground was sold to property developers. Just out of interest.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 06:35 AM

Gigg Lane was always admired for the high quality of its pitch back in the days when most pitches were quagmires all winter. I went to a match in the early 60s at Old Trafford when there was scarcely a blade of grass on half of the pitch. Another dismal aspect of that match was that Man U beat Burnley 6-0.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Mr Red
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 07:08 AM

that involve participation by numbers of people,

But are the politicians shit scared of criticising them?

Football holds a unique position on that score. In the UK at least.

I have worked with a Celtic Glaswegian. He was a magistrate too. But all was a joke when it came to the rivalry with the Old Firm. He was even there when the Ibrox disaster occurred, though not at the same end.

It was always an amazement how he held conflicting stances when you compared views re Footie shenanigans and unrelated high spirits. Committed Christian and throughly nice chap. But he did puzzle me.

I guess he justified it by explaining it as a few miscreants, not the body. But then that is why large crowds are dangerous. Especially religious ones like at football stadia. The thing to watch for is emerging complexity.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 07:27 AM

But the size of the crowd in a sports stadium doesn't account for it.
Rugby International crowds can be of similar size, and just as biased in their opinions, but the same problems don't flare up.
Cardiff's Millennium Stadium was host to numerous 'Football' cup finals while Wembley was being redeveloped. There were no major disruptions. Admittedly the bars in the stadium were closed on those days, but there were lots of pubs on the way in (from the segregated fans parking at different points in the city).
The same crowd for a Rugby international will be sitting in the stadium with the supporter groups intermingled, and the bars open. - No Problems!

It must be down to the attitude of the sport, and its supporters.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: JMB
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 08:31 AM

When I hear the term football, I first think of Association Football or Gaelic Football or Rugby Football. There is also Australian form of football I understand. I feel that Rugby is more appealing to me than American Football. The game that the Americans play is slow moving game. As soon as the ball hits the ground or if the player in possession gets tackled, the play is dead. In Rugby, dropping the ball or getting tackled will result in the play continuing. Also, in Rugby, you have to pass the ball to a team mate behind you. Forward passes are illegal which makes for a good challenge. I played a little Rugby when I was younger and worked at major local tournaments with tasks such as running touch. It's a fun game. I do enjoy the American game sometimes, though. If you're from Canada and a big American Football fan, you would know that there is a Canadian form of rules of the American football. I understand that in Canada, you have three downs opposed to the four in America. If you're unfamiliar with the term, it's of course how many chances your team has to make it over ten yards to keep in possession of the ball or losing possession. The Canadian field length is 110 yards opposed to the 100 yards in America.

Association Football: I am a big supporter of Glasgow Celtic FC in Scotland. Football in Europe to me is like a religion and a way of life. It is part of my individual culture.

When I see hockey mentioned above: The level of roughness in hockey is diverse when it comes to history and geography. Throughout time, and the many regions where the game is played, the brand of hockey is different. Not only in how rough the players are, but in basic rules of the play such as the two line pass rule. That has been removed from the game several years ago which makes the game go faster. Back to roughness: In the Maritime provinces, the junior level of hockey in the 1990s was laden with fi

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: JMB
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 08:33 AM

was laden with one on one, line and bench brawls. At one time, you could have two fights for a player in a game before they were ejected. In the 90s, the violence was fueled by fierce and passonate rivalries and all aspects of the game were unpredictable. You never knew what was going to happen or when, and the crowds were massive.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: JMB
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 08:36 AM

I've heard tell in some Asian countries, there is no violence in hockey. It is not tolerated. If you fight your punishment is really stiff.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 09:50 AM

13,000,000 people attend Premier League games each year, and there are three more senior leagues and lots of minor leagues below that. I'm puzzled by all this talk of crowd trouble at matches being such a big issue. I can't remember the last time I heard of a major outbreak of violence at a match. You have to go back years. Grounds are far safer places these days, more comfortable, far better organised, mostly with covered stands and far more people seated, and generally with a zero-tolerance ethos in place. If you make big trouble you'll be caught on camera and banned for life. So, basically, come off it. You're way out of date.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 10:04 AM

Steve, my last experience of crowd "trouble" was only 11 or 12 years ago.

In Huddersfield when they play Leeds United the number of Police bussed in from other towns had to be seen to be believed,but they arrived in strength and fully equipped for riots.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 10:20 AM

Trying to remember my social history...

But wasn't there a period in the 80s or early 90s when former ultra violent football hooligan gangs caught on to rave culture
and stated smoking themselves placid and chilled out on skunk...???

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 10:21 AM

But does it still happen? A big police turnout as a precautionary measure in certain circumstances is sensible. They do that for the Trooping of the Colour too! And just wait 'til you see that royal wedding... I can't tell you the number of times I've been hassled and herded around by dozens of cops whilst attending peaceful demos. It isn't really fair to blame people for something they haven't done, and may not do, just because you see a lot of policemen there. But there has been trouble in the past, so, as I say, taking precautions is the sensible thing to do.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 10:39 AM

I must say my only experiences with crowd trouble have both been with football crowds in Manchester and they were probably about 10 years or so ago.

There was one occasion in Manchester itself when a Scottish club was playing A Russian club and there were awful fights and brawls. There were also several drunks laying across the pavement on Deansgate in the early afternoon which was very intimidating. I was considering letting 15 stone of Gnome walk across them but thought better of it!

The other couple of times were when I was working in Salford Quays and Man U were playing. From the colours these were Man U fans on both occasions. The first time I was trying to drive from work on normal roads at normal going home time and was forced to stop dues to a large crowd blocking the whole road in front of me. There was a heavy police presence moving them on but my car and the ones in front of and behind me were covered in spit when the crown had passed. Not exactly life threatening but not nice :-(

The second time I was on foot and witnessed a crowd of 'fans' marching and chanting along the side of the quays, throwing anything that was not screwed down into the water. To crown it all, 2 or 3 of them proceeded to urinate in the middle of the road while others cheered.

I do appreciate that these are isolated incidents but it is these that sour the experience for everyone concerned.

Sorry Steve

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Allan Conn
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 12:05 PM

The main sport here in the Scottish Borders is rugby and it has been so for more than a century. I have never heard anyone say there are going to watch 'football' when they are actually meaning 'rugby'. Yes officially it is rugby football but everyone knows when someone is talking about football they are meaning the round ball game.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 12:41 PM

I should have added to my rant that I would never tar all football fans with the same brush as those rogues I came across. The vast majority are ordinary people who have a passion for something they clearly enjoy. To do so would be akin to saying all Muslims are terrorists. Using the same analogy the authorities would have as much difficulty in eliminating those few as Islam has with it's wrong 'uns.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 12:50 PM

We could always compare the proportion of footie fans who spit on cars, etc., with the proportion of dog-owners who let their dogs shit and piss all over the streets (including pissing on my car wheels). If Bude is anything to go by I should think there's no competition...

Not trying to do "he does it too, Miss," but just highlighting the point again that most human endeavours have downsides...

Live and let live!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 02:48 PM

Hi Steve

You are quite right Manchester United was seen to represent the Roman Catholic side of Manchester. Indeed My parents and grand parents were Catholic. They were very strong United followers.

My brother and I were educated in Catholic schools. Salford had a very strong Catholic representation.

I think that United were Catholic before Busby came and he strengthened United's Catholic reliance.

As far as I know there was no bitterness among the Catholics and protestants.

I lived and worked in Scotland and Celtic and Rangers had religious
attachments. I would say that the differences in Scotland were more strong than in England.

I went to watch a couple of Rangers v Celtic games. They were played on New Years day and there was lots of crowd problems.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 03:03 PM

Hi Dave

You don't know what you missed !!! Some great League was available in the Salford/Swinton area. I can understand you knowing a little about league but not much about Union. I played both. - a couple of years at Leeague and for almost 30 years at Union. I remember towards the end of my career I was made Captain. Union was changing becoming more professional. As we came on the pitch at the start of my last year the Referee read out all the new Laws. I said to him " I have played for 30 years without understanding the old rules so don't expect me to change now.

Cheers
mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 04:45 PM

I wonder MikeL, with what you have said about your upbringing and schooling, whether we may have attended the same Roman Catholic Grammar school in Salford which just happened to be on Weaste Lane?

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 05:04 PM

Just up the road from the Willows as well!

D.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 03:31 AM

From: Steve Shaw
We could always compare the proportion of footie fans who spit on cars, etc., with the proportion of dog-owners who let their dogs shit and piss all over the streets

The footie fans can, presumably, be expected to know better than the dogs which may or may not be with/controlled by their owners.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 03:34 AM

I do believe that Steve referred to 'the dog owners who let etc.' rather than their dogs. Do you just argue with everything that he says on principle?

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 03:39 AM

No, I don't argue with everything he says on principle.

"Dog owners who let . . ." does not actually mean the dog owners are present, or that they are capable of controlling their dogs to that extent even if they are present.
The dog owners may not be able to control their dogs, but the footie fans should be able to control themselves.
The examples given seem to be of footie fans going out of their way to be obnoxious. The dogs are just answering the call of nature.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 04:04 AM

"Dog owners who let . . ." does not actually mean the dog owners are present

It doesn't matter whether they are present or not. It is still the owners responsibility. Have you seen my comments on different languages going on Mudcat? Maybe you and I are just on different wavelengths.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 05:09 AM

Well next time I'm at a football match, instead of spitting on cars I'll drop my pants and relieve meself in numero deux fashion on the pavement (I'll have the Daily Mail to hand)*. I'm wondering which of the two endeavours would be more likely to get me in the Manchester Evening News (Gawd bless it...)

Just whimsy, Nigel, just whimsy...

*And a small bottle of hand gel, of course. I'm not that uncivilised, you know.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 12:47 PM

I am not sure if hand gel would work to clean off what is in the Daily Heil. Bottle of Detol and a wide brush?

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 12:49 PM

A blowtorch to the eyes after reading, whilst cordoned off with a perimeter of biohazard tape...

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 01:10 PM

Wide brush, Dave? Reminds me of the graffiti in the gents in my school, of all places. The sign up in the cubicle said "Please use the brush." Some wag had scribbled underneath "I'd rather use the paper."

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 02:29 PM

Bloomin' spill chucker again...

Wire brush of course.

In one of my workplaces someone had posted a notice saying 'Please do not put paper towels down the toilet.' Some wag had added 'or shit in the bins':-)

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 02:42 PM

Hi Raggy

I think you are referring to De La Salle Salford ??

No I did not attend there though I did take and pass the entry examinations.

I also passed for St. Bede's which was also a Roman Catholic Grammar school.

At the time I lived in Altrincham and as I passed the entrance exam my parents decided that they could not economically afford to send me to Manchester or Salford when we lived in walking distance of Altrincham Grammar School. I was advised not to attend any non- Catholic Classes or attend Morning prayers.

I was followed by my son and now one of my grandsons.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 02:51 PM

Hi Dave I

Knew the Willows very well. I went on trial for Salford and played three games under the name A N Other. This was because I wasn't a signed on Player. This was quite common in those days.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 06:01 PM

Well I played cricket for Thornleigh and we beat St Bede's but got slaughtered by De La Salle. Only the Catholic grammar schools played each other!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 05:56 AM

It was De La Salle indeed MikeL, I can honestly say I hated every second of my time there.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 06:08 AM

Sorry about that illiterate sentence "Only the Catholic grammar schools played each other." What I meant was that the Catholic grammar schools only played other Catholuc grammar schools! Well Thornleigh did anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 06:13 AM

Grr...

Anyway, the match of the century at Anfield tomorrow, eh, Mike! I can watch it on my phone with my Christmas present, me cordless Bluetooth headphones, so as not to annoy the football-shunning Mrs Steve. Though she can still hear my oooos at near-misses and me swearing at the ref...

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 06:28 AM

Match of the century tomorrow Steve, United are not playing till Monday and we're only playing Stoke.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 08:17 AM

Who?

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 04:21 PM

Do you want to have a look at the record books Steve.

Admittedly Liverpool HAVE been a very good and successful team but just remind me when the last time they won a trophy was?

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 05:36 PM

Ah, but it's how you play the game. For over twenty years United have concentrated on winning ugly. Their recent history has been one of scruffy 1-0 wins and games so tedious that even their own fans have slow-handclapped them. It's no different this season. Hardly surprising with the Petulant Special Juan at the helm! In contrast, Liverpool play scintillating footie, though with a very vulnerable defence. But Virgil is here to fix that. Watch this space. And this is turning into what I CALL a footie thread! Let's get tribal!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 05:49 AM

"Their recent history has been one of scruffy 1-0 wins" ........ and a cupboard full of trophys!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 05:55 AM

Yebbut football is supposed to be entertainment for the masses!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 06:01 AM

Yebbut bollocks, I number of times I've heard Liverpool fans bemoaning the fact they haven't won a trophy for years beggars belief, and I'm not really a football fan.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 06:54 AM

Yebbut watching many a United game is akin to watching paint dry. And Mourinho has got cracking talent of the likes of Martial and Rashford who he can't seem to get the best out of. Mind you, if I were Klopp I'd be after Lingard with all that dough Liverpool's just amassed from the sale of Coutinho. And what about Pogba? Looks like a bloody waste of money to me!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 07:22 AM

You can have Pogba, I don't rate him at all, £90 million up the Swanee as far as I'm concerned. I don't think Rashford or Lingard will be on the market any time soon.

As for our moaning minnie of a manager I can't abide the man, he's like a petulant spoilt brat, but he does have a knack of winning trophies ............ something Liverpool haven't done for some time, just remind me when was it you last won the Premiership?

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Vic Smith
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 07:35 AM

Can any football fan tell me where I can get a replica shirt for the national team of Mali?
I would also need to have the following letters for the player's name - T - I - M - B - U - K and a hge number 2 to go under them.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 07:41 AM

Here you go Vic.


Mali

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 07:44 AM

Try this one instead

Mali

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 11:01 AM

Steve, are you a gambling man. I'll put a pint on city to win.

I reckon it will be 3-1 or 4-1 City !!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 11:09 AM

Ok.. try to convince a non believer there is a team in the West country worth supporting...

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 01:02 PM

Well I'm buggered. Well done to Liverpool. I have to admit I'm surprised by the result and I'll not be able to watch the highlights as I'm creating a 4 course meal for 6 this evening.

Have a good gloat Steve, your team obviously deserve it.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 01:10 PM

I know you didn't take up my offer of a bet Steve, but if we ever meet again I will buy you a pint for Liverpools win today.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 01:23 PM

Well what a match. I watched it all live on my phone. It was super-thrilling from start to finish, both sides going for it 100%, no defensive shite, no time-wasting, no parking the bus, amazing Anfield atmosphere. A brilliant match, the icing on the cake being City nearly grabbing it back after being a 4-1 down basket case with ten minutes to go. Even my toe nails are gone. I'm a shadow of me former self after watching that, I tell you. YES!!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 01:27 PM

I very craftily avoided high-intensity kitchen activity this evening. I have a piece of brisket slow-cooking in the pot with porcini and veg, and I broke my golden rule by peeling the spuds before the game. I'm no fool.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 06:04 PM

Quite frankly, today's game will do down in the annals as one of the best matches of the Premier League era. The real winners were the fans of both teams who saw a scintillating match played with amazing skill and pace, and with positive sporting spirit. I'll be watching Youtubes of it 'til the day I die!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 06:05 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 15 Jan 18 - 09:36 AM

Hi Steve

First let me congratulate you on your pre-match " match of the Century" Comment.

It was my Wife's birthday yesterday and her sister who is home for Christmas took us out to a local pub for dinner. I was disappointed to hear this as I wanted to watch the match. However all worked out well as they put us in the snug where there is a a TV.

What a match !!! Two teams showing attacking football at it's best. Let me say now that the better team won, although it got a bit hairy near the end.

Raggy I disagree with you comments on Pogba. looking at the prices of players today he is not a poor bargain. Remember he has had a few interuptions which have affected his game but lately he has been running the games.

Steve being Steve of course had to be disingenuous with his remark about about " Watching paint dry". Admitted they are not up to Fergie standard, but they have been much more open and attacking recently, except in a couple of games when he " parked the Bus".

Oh and they are second in the league.

I will be watching them tonight on TV cos No 1 son is unable to get tickets.

Regards

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jan 18 - 12:50 PM

Beautiful piece of purple prose in today's Guardian by Barney Ronay, writing about the match:

Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain took the ball deep in Liverpool's half and played a snaking pass inside John Stones. As Stones turned to shield the ball he was bullocked out of the way with malevolent glee by Firmino, a player for whom pressing and closing down is not so much a chore as a hungrily devoured pleasure.

With Stones on his knees Firmino paused, looked up and produced a moment of startling delicacy, from sledgehammer to scalpel in a single shift of feet, lifting a lovingly dinked finish past Ederson as he rushed out. For a moment the ball seemed to hang dreamily under the lights, the air rushing out of the stadium, before falling in a gentle parabola and bouncing in off the post.

Anfield exploded with a huge gurgle of joy.

Same here!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 15 Jan 18 - 01:14 PM

PS Steve ........... you didn't remind me of the last time Liverpool won the Premiership

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jan 18 - 01:19 PM

Next season. Dead cert.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jan 18 - 04:31 PM

Been at a wildlife trust meeting this evening. Started to watch the United match at the start of the second half. Gave up after ten minutes. I have paint to watch drying. The atmosphere in the stadium is like that of a rather quiet morgue. Maybe it'll pick up.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 15 Jan 18 - 05:07 PM

Hi Steve

I just watched the whole match. Think you must have been at another one!!!

Granted the tempo was lower than Liverpools's But there is more than one way to win a game. Man U conceed far fewer goals and let's face it, we win more games. After all that is what the games is all about.

It was a little quiet at times tonight but it was pi**ing down and freezing cold. That kept the crowd quiet.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jan 18 - 05:54 PM

I suppose it was always going to be one-sided and that Man U might as well have conserved their energy for stiffer tasks. However, Mike, I'd put as my top priority playing unfailingly positive football aimed at scoring goals and giving thoroughly good entertainment to the millions of faithful supporters. I did see only two fairly short sections of the second half admittedly, but I saw quite a bit of Man U playing the time-ebbing midfield passing game with no ambition to push for goal, and you can hardly claim that Stoke's defence warranted those tactics when Man U have all that fire power. Bloody annoying.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 06:24 AM

Hi Raggy

" You can have Pogba, I don't rate him at all, £90 million up the Swanee as far as I'm concerned"

Just a little stat to show Pogba's worth to United.

Man U have not lost when Pogba has played They have not lost the last 35 times when Pogba has played.

Last night he completely dominated the game laying on the goals and made many fantastic long ball passes.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 06:32 AM

Acknowledged MikeL, as I stated earlier I'm not really a football fan, barely an armchair fan if the truth be known.

I just find that Pogba often seems disinterested in games, comes to life for a few minutes, seems disinterested again. He doesn't seem to work as hard as the other players more often than not.

I will defer to the greater knowledge of others.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 06:50 AM

He did earn his keep last night, I must admit!

Good luck if you get Sanchez, Mike. But, to me, a complete prima donna twat managing a complete prima donna twat doesn't look like a promising combination to me... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 06:52 AM

To many to mes there to me

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 06:54 AM

(Oh God, Stevie boy, don't mess with your too toos...)

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 10:33 AM

New manager for Wales

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 11:17 AM

Can't think he's ready for that. I want to be wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 01:26 PM

We used to see Giggsy's family cars parked at Tesco's in Walkden. Apropos of nothing at all.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 02:23 PM

I wish him well, apart from when they play England or Ireland, but he has little experience. I'm not sure that despite his wide knowledge of the game he has what it takes, at the moment, to be an international manager.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 02:38 PM

hi Raggy

I understand your position on this. Pogba is a very unorthodox player.

He does at times appear to disappear for short spells. I think that some of it is because he has not been completely fit since his injury.

Just as he was getting fitter he got a ban for what I think was unfortunate.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 02:47 PM

Hi Steve

There is no doubt about Sancez's ability. I am concerned about his affect on his fellow players and the rest of the club.

Maybe Maurinho with his wide experience of dealing with world class players will be able to deal with him.

Besides it's not certain that he will come. United are all getting pi**sed off with his antics.

Cheers Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 02:54 PM

Hi Re Giggsy.

I think he will be OK. He has had a lot of football experience in various roles. His playing record stands up for itself and he has had some experience as Assistant Manager Under Van Gaal and some more when he was a caretaker when Fergie left.

There is talk that Paul Scholes will be part of his assistance team.

I hope he does well but he will have a difficult task.

Cheer

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Jan 18 - 04:55 PM

Oi, bloody Nora! Norwich screw Chelsea in the last seconds of added time! Extra time to come! Go, Delia!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Jan 18 - 05:55 PM

Ah, sod it. Chelsea win on a penalty shootout after having two players rightly sent off. That'll teach these big clubs that it's counterproductive to field weakened teams against what they mistakenly see as lesser opposition. Kudos, Canaries!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Jan 18 - 03:51 AM

16/01/18 Cardiff City secure a Home match (28/01/18) against Manchester City, following an away win 4:1 over Mansfield (after only managing a draw at home)

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Senoufou
Date: 18 Jan 18 - 04:28 AM

We were on the edge of our seats (well, the sofa) all evening, and when Jamal Lewis scored nearly at full time, we could hear Ruth-over-the-road and her husband yelling in their front room! The Canaries played very well, solidly and steadily. But the behaviour of two of the Chelsea players (sent off) was awful. And the ref didn't appear to have a full grip on the match at all.
My husband was doing an African dance when Lewis scored. But penalties are a disappointing way to settle a match aren't they?

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Jan 18 - 05:50 AM

I thought the ref did quite well in the face of Chelsea's antics. The reds for Pedro and Morata were well deserved. I've watched that alleged Willian penalty about twenty times now and I think the ref was right not to give it. To me, Willian seemed to be trailing a leg in order to be deliberately caught, and he went down way too easily. Willian is a player I hugely admire but it looked to me like he was fishing for a penalty. Had it been given it would have been a soft one. Had that been Messi, Mane or Salah in the box they would have gone through hell and high water to stay on their feet and go for goal.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Senoufou
Date: 18 Jan 18 - 01:56 PM

Everyone in our village was talking about the match this morning.
Poor little old Ellen (a tiny, very, very old lady) was miserable. She used to go to all their matches, home and away. Now she listens on Radio Norfolk, and if the Canaries win, she has a small glass of sherry. No tipple for her last night...

In spite of the strong winds and cold temperature, my husband wore his Norwich City football strip down to the village shop when he went out to get my paper. He was frozen when he got back, but he said he wanted to show solidarity!
(But the fickle thing has every football strip known to man, and wears them indiscriminately)

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 18 Jan 18 - 02:42 PM

Hi

I watched the match and thought it an excellent and exciting game.

Norwich gave Chelsea a hug shock and in my opinion I thought that Norwich was the better side in which they were very organised at the back and extremely dangerous on the breaks.

I agreed with the penalty decisions. Norwich were unlucky when they struck the post and fully deserved the excellent late goal.

Pity about the penalty. I agree that it is not a good way to decide a match.....but I can't think of a better way.

I n rugby we tried a few ways to get a decider in the few games that ended in a draw. We had a " shootout" in that we played on until one side scored. Don't think this would work for football as it would become difficult to score as the teams packed their defences.

Well done Norwich.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Jan 18 - 06:06 PM

Chelsea are going through a very sterile patch at the moment, very reminiscent of Liverpool this time last year - up to Christmas 2016 I thought the reds were going to win the league, then it all went pear-shaped. I like watching Chelsea, despite their Chelski tarnish. I'm disappointed with Conte this season. He needs to get a bit more discipline into his players. Would you keep picking divers? On top of that, he comes from my very favourite Italian town, Lecce in Puglia. Definitely go to Lecce before you die. The Florence of the South!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Jan 18 - 12:53 PM

Anyway, Swansea-Liverpool tonight. I can watch it on Sky on me phone. A victory for the lads would put clear blue water between them and Spurs and Arsenal and strengthen their place in the top four. Don't see why not...

Don't expect bloody brexit posts between eight and ten.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 Jan 18 - 01:29 PM

On paper Liverpool should walk this one. 4-0 or 5-0 should be an achievable score. Watch Swansea confound the issue !!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Jan 18 - 03:35 PM

two not very good sides, if they learned to pass the ball well. it might be worth watching

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Jan 18 - 04:21 PM

dear oh dear, what a turn up

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 Jan 18 - 04:55 PM

Ooops .......................

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Jan 18 - 05:04 PM

The Swans got a soft goal then parked the bus. In their position I can't blame 'em, but it made for a bloody poor watch. There must have been about six chances that Liverpool would normally have put away. I must say, their goalie was brilliant. Ho hum.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Jan 18 - 04:44 AM

liverpool lost and played in a mediocre manner if they could learn to pass more succesfully they might do better

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jan 18 - 05:15 AM

Their passing was under par last night both in pace and accuracy. If Liverpool haven't bagged a goal in the first ten minutes I start to worry. They've got to start at blistering pace, bag a goal or two and make the other team come out and take risks and subject themselves to Liverpool's counters, which are as dangerous as anybody's. They let the Swans get their feet under the table last night, get a soft goal then park the bus. I hate that kind football as it isn't giving the fans what they deserve, very negative, but with Swansea wallowing at the bottom and desperately needing the points (and the multimillions that staying up would mean), I can't blame them. That's capitalism for you!

Don't get me started on the twat Sanchez. Half a million a week? A bloody disgrace.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 23 Jan 18 - 06:27 AM

Hi Steve

I watched the match last night. Embarrassing to lose to the bottom club.

Your comments on the match pretty much agree with what I saw. Liverpool don't appear to have a Plan B.

I went to Turf Moor last Saturday when Man U Played Burnley, There was a good example of this there. United were completely wasting their time trying to beat the Burnley defensive tactics. So in the second half they pulled back and "Parked the Bus"" and scored with a breakaway goal. Call it ugly if you wish but they won a difficult match.

" Don't get me started on the twat Sanchez. Half a million a week? A bloody disgrace." Way of the Word today. It is an eye-watering amount but if he turns out to be the winner we think he is, it will pay for itself. I would then be a good investment.

I don't think it will enable them to catch City but next year we hope the the League will not be quite so one-sided.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jan 18 - 07:33 AM

He's a bit of a sulk, though, isn't he, Mike? You're really expecting a lot...

Packing your defence all night is a very negative tactic and is definitely against the sporting spirit. Several teams, including Chelsea, thwarted even Barcelona at their peak with that tactic, the Barca of Messi, Xavi and Iniesta. Jayz, it must be a damn good tactic if even that lot can't get through. It's a time-honoured tactic used by weaker teams in away legs. Of course, if you're a Chelsea, you always have the pace and talent to mount sudden counter-attacks when your opponent starts to get flustered with the tactic and take risks, as they did to deprive Liverpool of the title a couple of seasons ago. But Swansea don't have that. Once they'd bagged that goal they hardly ever even vaguely threatened. It was very tedious watching. They were time-wasting at throw-ins and one of their players walked off painfully slowly to waste time when he was subbed. Unless you're injured, you should be carded unless you jog off. Liverpool definitely lacked edge last night but we watched a game that no-one (bar the Swansea fans), including thousands of neutrals, could have been happy with.

And you can blame Burnley for using the tactic, but the past master is Jose!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jan 18 - 07:36 AM

Sorry, Mike, I see that I slightly misread your remarks on the Turf Moor match!

Always thought that t'Turf was a cold 'ole...

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 23 Jan 18 - 02:41 PM

Hi Steve

" Always thought that t'Turf was a cold 'ole. "

I t certainly was the other night!! Cold wind blowing across the pitch right into the stand. Then as the wind eased a cold drizzly fog swamped the ground. United were playing in Grey strip. Difficult to see them on the far side.

The point I was trying to make about Maurinho is that he is a good tactician and can change the tactics during the game to get a result.

Remember that they have scored almost as many goals as Liverpool and conceded far fewer. And they are still the most watched team in British football!!!!!!!!.

Now of to 't pub to watch City.


Cheers Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 Jan 18 - 01:09 PM

arsenal chelsea who is going to win this?

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 25 Jan 18 - 02:46 PM

Hi

Arsenal won 2-1 in a very closely contested game.

Arsenal will now meet Manchester City a Wembley.

Chelsea manager Conte complaining bitterly about how Chelsea can't contest top teams because they can't buy top players.

He wasn't complaining previously when Chelsea out price every team in tha Premier League.

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 28 Jan 18 - 01:14 PM

Hi Steve - watched Liverpool v West Brom last night.
Liverpool were very poor IMHO - especially the defence.
These games are always tricky for the top teams. As the opponents have nothing to lose. Some strange decisions especially when the use of the new filmed action was used.

Both managers criticised it.   

Man United managed to win at a canter at Yeovil. Sanchez looked good in his first game. I am expecting something more from United when he plays with the full team - we had 10 changes from the usual side.

A consolation for Liverpool will be that they will able to concentrate more on their League position.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 28 Jan 18 - 04:23 PM

WBA Steve, WBA ................

I bet you have nightmares !!!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 30 Jan 18 - 02:31 PM

Hi

just going to sit down and watch Liverpool v Huddersfield.

Huddersfield are a difficult team to play.....as Man United found out some weeks ago when they beat us at Huddersfield.

Their Manager is an ex colleague and friend of Liverpool Manager Jurgen Clopp.

I will be interested in this game because we play Huddersfield shortly in the League, and we could also play them again if the beat Birmingham
in the replay of the recent draw.

Of course this will not be of any interest to Steve as they are no longer in this Competition.

I see Clopp is starting to moan about referees - he complained about how much ( little) the ref awarded for injury time in their recent game.

Of course we at Old Trafford are "experts" at this thanks to Alec Ferguson.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Jan 18 - 05:54 PM

Liverpool did the same thing last season, though a couple of weeks earlier. It'll be a test of Klopp's mettle to get this quickly turned around. Giving Huddersfield a whack isn't a bad start. Good to see Liverpool increasing the distance from Arsenal. Swansea are becoming giant-killers!

Dunno whether refs add time on for these lengthy delays due to reviewing decisions. It stops the flow of what should be a flowing game, I know that much.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 01 Feb 18 - 09:09 AM

Hi Steve

Saw the Liverpool v Huddersfield game. Not a classic but " The Pool" got a deserved win. Huddersfield IMHO were very poor but you have to beat what-ever is against you.

I hope Huddersfield play as badly on Saturday when they play Man United. Mind you after last night's performance against Spurs United got blown away. I have not seen such a poor performance by United since Moyes went. We were lucky to get none.!!! Our defence that had gone for over six hours without conceding a goal and then we let one in after only 10 seconds!! Our performance was erratic and Spurs could and should have scored five or six." 'arry Kane "didn't have his shooting boots on.

There was a small consolation in that Chelsea got blasted 3-0 at home.
It's going to be interesting in the top six.

Cheers Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Feb 18 - 09:13 AM

Spurs are now snapping at the heels of Liverpool and Chelsea thanks to your lot, Mike!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 01 Feb 18 - 10:14 AM

hi Steve

Sorry !!!! I wanted to help you out. Still that's life.!!!

I see you have spurs this week-end ?? Hope you help us.!!!!

To Raggy - with Pogba's performance last night it wasn't worth five Million never mind 85. He just wasn't in the game. Mourinho subbed him
and he (pogba) didn't look happy.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Feb 18 - 03:36 PM

I fancy Liverpool to give Spurs a clumping at Anfield, but they'd better have a bloody good plan for Kane and Eriksen. They're lethal. It could be a goal-fest, as neither team seems to understand the concept of parking the bus!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 02 Feb 18 - 09:21 AM

Hi Steve

I think it will be a wide open game and great to watch. I fancy a draw 2-2 I don't think Kane will miss chances like he did.

We didn't park the bus, more like a motor bike. We did create some chances but did take them. I think the second goal killed us. They were disorganised and lacking drive and initiative.

Good luck I will be watching.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Feb 18 - 07:27 PM

A routine, boring win for United. But the brave lads of Burnley, the archetypal hairy-arses, the team of me boyhood, never gave up against City. I thought Pep's tribute was wonderful:

Pep Guardiola has described Burnley as "the most British of teams" following the Clarets' 1-1 draw with Manchester City at Turf Moor on Saturday.

"Of course we are frustrated in terms of the result but the performance was outstanding against a Burnley side who are the most British of teams in terms of long balls and the way they play," Guardiola told Sky Sports News.

"But football is about goals. We needed to score the second, third and fourth when we had the chance. When you arrive in the last 15 minutes at Burnley 1-0, this is what can happen. I'm sad for the players because we played so well.

"What they have done this season, Burnley, is amazing. We controlled the game, but when we arrived in the last minutes at 1-0, there is danger."

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 04 Feb 18 - 10:01 AM

Hi Steve

"A routine, boring win for United". I don't believe it was Man U's fault. And it wasn't boring for most of the crowd.

I don't think that there were any buses left in Huddersfield......they were all parked on the Huddersfield goal line.

It takes two teams to make a good game. Huddersfield did not want to play. Instead they decided to kick United's players all over the pitch....especially Sanchez. He was a marked man.....literally. They didn't have even one attempt on goal. If they continue to play like this they will go down.

The Ref had a poor game in allowing this to go unpunished.Especially one vicious foul on a young lad....and in the penalty area too.


Good luck for this afternoon, I will be watching,

THIS SHOULD BE A GREAT GAME.

Cheers Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Feb 18 - 02:12 PM

Talk about a game of two halves. Just for once the cliche applies. Kane missing that first penalty was poetic justice. He dived. The second one was justified. It was all Liverpool in the first half. They were deadly except for the finish. But they went home at half-time. I do like Spurs though and I can't complain at honours even! Three cracking goals and a lot of edge-of-seat stuff. Great!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 05 Feb 18 - 09:17 AM

hi Steve

I agree with your view of the game. Great to watch. In the end a draw was a fair result even though how it happened was contraversial.

I have put Clopp down on the 100 meters in the next Olympics. He didn't half move down that touchline when Liverpool scored their second.

My forecast of the score was dead on.   !!!

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Feb 18 - 10:31 AM

Have had another look/think about that second penalty in the cold light of YouTube. It shouldn't have been given. Lamela was fishing for it, running into Virgil's path. If there was any contact at all it was minimal and Virgil was trying to avoid it, and Lamela made a meal of it. Seems like Pochettino may have a second career as an Olympic diving coach, what with Kane, Alli and Lamela. No wonder he praised the officials for making perfect decisions. Jon Moss was very soft on Spurs in the first half too. His behaviour seemed quite unprofessional. And he didn't seem to understand the offside rule either.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 05 Feb 18 - 02:51 PM

Hi Steve

I agree that Lamela was looking for a penalty. But Virgil has been around long enough to spot this. I recorded the game and have viewed the incident in very slow motion. IMHO there is no doubt that he touched Lamela but I don't know what kind of touch makes the difference between being a penalty or not. Most players know about this and try to avoid any kind of contact in the area.

An example of the confusion is shown if you look at United's game against Huddersfield when a young player was completely flattened as he was charged by a defender the back in the area. He was felled by a two footed charge off the ground; This wasn't so much of tackle as an assault. No penalty was given. It strikes me that even the the referees don't know.

As for diving, it is cheating and the refs must get a grip of it. It is rife; most players do it.

It was never done before the European Leagues. These brought players of many different nationalities, many of whom were divers.

I can only recall one British player who dived - that was Franni Lee of Man City.

I think that diving should be an immediate red card not just a yellow and a kind word from the ref.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Feb 18 - 06:22 PM

Nah then, Mike, surely you remember one of the great moments in all footie, the punch-up between Franny and Bite-Yer-Legs. Those were the days when men were men and so were half the women. We're in prima donna territory these days. When you dived in those days on those pitches you'd go in at half-time with five pounds of mud sticking to your front and another pound wrapped round the family jewels. I admit that Liverpool had the diver among divers, bite-yer-ear-off Suarez (come back, Luis, all is forgiven!), and Stevie wasn't exactly Mr Innocent. I agree. Send the bugger off, as long as you're sure. Alli was blatant, Kane not quite 100%. Red, yellow. The draw was the ultimate fair result, but who wants fair in footie!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Feb 18 - 06:26 PM

But Chelski stuffed! Come on, Mike, what's not to like!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 06 Feb 18 - 02:38 PM

Hi Steve

" Those were the days my friend ............."

Jackie Charlton and Norman Hunter.....we had nNobbie Stiles.

I play in a Sunday League ( after playing Rugby On the Saturday.)

I had been kicked on the knee and had a couple of stitches in a cut.
Before the game Nobbie came to watch. He saw my bandaged knee. He told me not to wear the bandage over the wound but to put it on the other leg !!! Said the buggers will go for that one and leave the other alone. Worked too.

Liverpool's Tommy Smith was a great player " with a cutting edge".

There were many "kickers " in those days,

Yes Chelsea seem to be on an cliff-hanging edge. Will they go.....I hope so. Sure you will too.

Cheers Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Feb 18 - 07:11 PM

And this is the one day in the calendar on which even Liverpool supporters stop hating Manchester United. I salute you, Babes.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Feb 18 - 06:09 PM

Anyway, Mike, cheese aside, it's Spurs-Arsenal tomorrow dinner time and it's on BT Sport. A boring draw would suit Liverpool just fine. Then Liverpool need three points against the Saints on Sunday, Sky Sport. That'll go a very long way...

Mrs Steve buys me my five quid a month sub to Sky Sports Mobile and (currently) my £3.50 a month sub to BT Sport Mobile for me joint birthday and Christmas pressies. So I can watch all the big Premier League games live and every Champions League game! Keeps me off the street...

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Feb 18 - 10:10 AM

Sod it. The Spurs result was the worst outcome for Liverpool. They need a big win tomorrow. Goal diff could be a big factor this season. The top few are all very close in that regard.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 10 Feb 18 - 10:10 AM

Hi Steve

Just finished watching Spurs v Arsenal. Quite a good open game to watch. I think Spurs just about deserved their 1-0 win. Like you I wanted a draw and if Lacasette (sic) hadn't missed a complete sitter right at the end.

Harry Kane scored his usual goal and Spurs created several more chances.

Arsenal looked wide open a the back and in my opinion were lucky to get away so lightly.

I will be watching City later on. Leicester are a team that could cause a surprise. (fingers crossed ).

I watch on BT Sport and Sky Sport on my TV.

My son has given me a dongle that streams life sports, but I haven't needed to use it yet. In truth I have my doubts about it.

I will be watching Both United and Liverpool tomorrow.

Just watching Ireland massacre Italy......I know there is a separate thread but I want to get something done and don't have the time

Cheers

Mike

Ps Cheese and wine went down well.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Feb 18 - 08:39 PM

Well, Mike, today went well! Liverpool win at a canter, after having to travel south today instead of last night due to a plane glitch. Man U lost their way against a hearty and passionate hairy-arse team, and if things carry on this way it'll be Liverpool second.

Now for Porto. Roll on Wednesday!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: olddude
Date: 11 Feb 18 - 11:16 PM

I have taken a liking to football or as we Yankees say soccer.. My team liverpool.. Oh yeah

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: olddude
Date: 11 Feb 18 - 11:21 PM

Why the hell can't they wrap up emre can contract.. Last I heard it still was open ugh

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Feb 18 - 10:03 AM

I know. The trouble is I think he wants to go to Juventus. And unless he does a deal with Liverpool he can go on a free transfer at the end of the season. If Juve don't have to pay for him they can use the money saved to pay him big money. He's playing hard to get. He must be on good money at Liverpool and he gets picked regularly so you might have thought he'd be happy. I reckon it's about money, not football. Sign of the times.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 12 Feb 18 - 02:29 PM

Hi Dan

Long time no hear eh. Hope you are well.

I love you Dan but Liverpool !!!!! I am Manchester United so that makes us enemies right away....lol.

I t is going to get fierce as we are 2nd in the League and Liverpool are third.

At the moment Liverpool are playing better than us but we will get going again.

Great to hear from you again old buddy

Kind regards from this side of the pond.

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 12 Feb 18 - 02:50 PM

Hi Steve

I thought I might see you after yesterday.s games.

You are quite in order to be laughing ( as you no doubt you are.)

I watched both games and I have say that Liverpool
are looking very very much like a danger to us.

We were pathetic. There did not seem to be any organisation at all. This is unlike Mourinnho teams. The defence was all over the place - strange as we have the second best defensive record in the league.

The centre backs played as though they had never met; these guys are England Internationals though it is difficult to see how.

Especially Smalling who was lucky to get away with a penalty and then for some mad reason, he performs the most obvious dive I have ever seen. It was like a pig falling of a ladder. And to rub in the salt Newcastle scored from the resulting free kick.

Having said all that we managed to miss at least 4 " dollies" . The Newcastle keeper play out of his skin preventing us scoring. It was his first game !!!

Looks like being a rare fight for the top places. We can't play that bad again..........can we.

Regards

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: olddude
Date: 12 Feb 18 - 03:53 PM

Lol good one Mike but I gotta go with the liverpool team

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Feb 18 - 05:48 PM

You are a wise man of exquisite good taste, Dan!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 13 Feb 18 - 02:26 PM

Hi Dan

When you gotta go you gotta go. But Liverpool..???

Seriously I am pleased to hear that you are interested in our game and in supporting Liverpool you have chosen well.

Regards Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 13 Feb 18 - 03:52 PM

Maybe Dan has chosen well MikeL but for crying out loud Steve is a Mancunian, supporting Liverpool for him is tantamount to high treason.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Feb 18 - 04:53 PM

I ask you, Raggytash, is Radcliffe "Mancunian?"

Damned fine show from Spurs tonight, wot I have just finished watching. I thought they were going to be toast after that first ten minutes. Instead, they have two away goals against Juve. What's not to like!

Now for Porto tomorrow night...

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 14 Feb 18 - 06:23 AM

Hi Raggy

Steve is anything he feels he wants to be .....lol When I was young Radcliffe was certainly in Manchester,....now I have no Idea where it is; but it sure as hell is not in Liverpool.

I think Steve may be like my Sister -in-law. She supports Liverpool just to be able to argue with us....!!!

I will be watching Liverpool tonight. and what's more I will be shouting for them. Last night I was shouting for Man City. I want all English teams to do well in Europe.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Feb 18 - 01:35 PM

I left Radcliffe when I was 18, though my mum and dad are both soldiering on up there, miraculously! I hardly ever went to Manchester, except to catch a bus from Victoria or a train from Piccadilly, and I wouldn't be able to find my way round the place at all. We did all our shopping in Bury or Bolton and I went to school in Bolton, at Thornleigh. I don't associate myself with Manchester at all. I'm freelance!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Feb 18 - 04:53 PM

I will not gloat. Porto 0 Liverpool 5.


Sod it.


GloatgloatgloatgloatgloatgloatgloatgloatGLOATGLOATBLOODYGLOAT...

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Feb 18 - 09:11 PM

Dammit, it weren't Victoria, were it. That's where the metro goes to from Bury. It were Chorlton Street where t'buses to London went from. Tsk.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: olddude
Date: 14 Feb 18 - 10:32 PM

Yup sorry but I did love that liverpool score
5 is a good number :)

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: olddude
Date: 14 Feb 18 - 10:44 PM

Mo has a cannon for a foot.. He has 30 or so goals already this season.. Amazing

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 15 Feb 18 - 11:08 AM

Hi Steve

Congrats on fine win. Mo must be one of the best signings ever. This guy sniffs out chances and usually takes them. Also creates goals as well. He possesses that amazing change of pace - his speed off the mark makes it very difficult to stop him.

Sane had a great game too.

I watched the game and to be honest it was a one way game which takes away the interest. But Hey Liverpool can only play what is put against them.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: olddude
Date: 15 Feb 18 - 03:25 PM

What is your thoughts on the potential signing of Alisson by liverpool.. That is one hell of a lot of money... He is great but to me it breaks the bank. What will our star players want and can we keep them if they pay that price

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 15 Feb 18 - 04:24 PM

I have to concede that Liverpool were magnificent last night, all credit to them for a wonderful display.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Feb 18 - 08:07 AM

Mignolet's days are numbered. Karius has stepped up to the plate but Klopp wants to strengthen all aspects of the back end, if you take my meaning. Virgil is looking commanding but he isn't yet up to speed, either in terms of fitting the Klopp philosophy or getting over his spate of injuries, but I reckon he's going to be the darling of Anfield (one of!) As for Alisson, I don't think Liverpool need to be spending £70 million on a goalkeeper just now and I don't think Klopp does either. The trouble is that Roma felt stung by giving Salah to Liverpool for what turned out to be a bargain-basement price and they won't be inclined to repeat that exercise with Alisson.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: olddude
Date: 16 Feb 18 - 09:39 AM

Steve.. I agree completely

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 16 Feb 18 - 09:46 AM

Well it's the FA Cup 5th round this weekend, Manchester United away to Huddersfield .............. who are Liverpool playing?

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Feb 18 - 04:47 PM

Sounds boring...

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 18 Feb 18 - 05:10 AM

Lukaku's display yesterday against Huddersfield was superb, apart from his two goals he worked tirelessly for the team.

This, I believe, sets him apart from Pogba who I consider to be lazy, indolent and uninterested in the outcome of matches.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 18 Feb 18 - 06:30 AM

Hi Raggy

I agree with your comments. This was not a boring game !!! After Lucacu's first goal after only 3 minutes it was a game of 2 halves it was end to end with Huddersfield looking dangerous and had a couple o good chances that they did not take. Mouinho's plan was obviously to let Huddersfield come to them and hit them on the counter-attack. It worked well and in the second half after Lucacu's excellent second goal, assisted by a brilliant run and pass by Sanchez they were on top and stayed that way. Job Done.

Lots of time spent over Mata's "Goal" that turned out after 8.5 minutes being taken for VAR to decide. to have been offside. This must be improved.

As for Pogba, You are right he is not delivering. I think the latest issues are since Sanchez joined. Pogba is now not " top Boy" and doesn't like it. There is no doubt he his a great player but only on his terms. Alex Ferguson got rid of him because "of his attitude" and in the current situation if Fergie was there I have no doubt Pogba would be told to shut up and get on with it. Or he would be up the road. Fergie also had some problems with David Beckham and he sat him on the bench for several matches. He also cleared out Jap Stamm and Roy Keane two of his best players.

It will be interesting to watch how Mourinho deals with it. No Man is bigger than the team.

Lots not to be bored about Steve.....LoL

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Feb 18 - 07:42 AM

Except that United should have won 8-0.

The goal should have been given. Any ref/linesperson giving that without VAR would have attracted no comment whatsoever. The attacker must always have the benefit of the doubt in very close calls. They'll be telling us next that someone or other wouldn't have been offside if only he'd trimmed his nose hair before the game. If we really must have this kind of tech we should reserve it for judging whether the ball has gone over the line or not. And not a wavy line either! Yes there's big money in the game and a wrong offside call can cost a club millions. I don't give a monkeys. Football is a flowing game played and refereed by human beings. That's the way it should stay.

I'd like to see a clampdown on players stealing ten yards or more at throw-ins. I'd also like to see a five-second limit on how long the thrower can hold the ball. Award the throw to the other side. And the time limit on goalkeepers is routinely not observed. Goalies are allowed to hold the ball, including bouncing it, etc., for six seconds only and are allowed to take only four steps. I'd like to see that penalised by the award of a corner kick. We're getting good on unsporting behaviour such as diving. Time-wasting, just as unsporting, is no longer the ploy it used to be but there is still scope to make the game even better at what it should be, free-flowing and a celebration of skill and tactics. One more thing. No subs allowed after the 80th minute except for an injury after which the victim clearly can't carry on (to not include play-actors - ref's call). There isn't a single reason on earth for making multiple subs during added time. Bloody annoying and bloody unsporting.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 18 Feb 18 - 07:56 AM

The VAR in Rugby Union is normally far quicker than the debacle at Huddersfield yesterday, it may possibly take time for Football to get up to speed.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 18 Feb 18 - 09:41 AM

Hi Raggy

Or they could use the Rugby League method which is fast and shows the spectators what the cameras are seeing so they are not hanging in total
ignorance of what is going on.

cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 18 Feb 18 - 09:52 AM

Hi Steve

Thanks for your thoughts on improving the game. I agree with most of your comments. ( but not the 8-0 one !!!)

I know that football is a contact sport but we should cut all the arm wrestling and shirt pulling and bring back the shoulder to shoulder limitation on contact. Late I see more rugby tackles than at Twickenham.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Feb 18 - 10:34 AM

Agreed. They are already illegal, as with goalkeepers' and throw-in transgressions. I suppose there's a balance between keeping the rules and keeping the game moving and that *minor* transgressions can be overlooked as long as the ref is seen to be balancing things out over the game as a whole. In the Liverpool-Spurs game I saw three blatant fouls on Liverpool players within a few minutes of each other go unpunished in the first half (so did Klopp, who commented on them). Then the ref gives Spurs two soft penalties, arguably not penalties at all. Yeah, right...

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Senoufou
Date: 18 Feb 18 - 11:53 AM

We were outside Carrow Road stadium in Norwich walking across to the supermarket there, when an enormous ROAR went up. Tim Klose (Norwich City) had equalised against Ipswich Town in the last few seconds of extra time! Final score 1 - 1.

We smiled because scores of Police attended, and they had nothing to do, so many of them came into the supermarket to get a snack. Nice to see all the fans coming out calmly (obviously the odd taunts etc, but nothing dire) and with no trouble, in spite of these two teams being old enemies. I think the Police were bored stiff, but that's better than fights.
My husband was sad, as he'd chosen to wear his thick jacket not his Norwich City strip, but at least he was sporting his woolly Norwich City hat.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: olddude
Date: 18 Feb 18 - 11:57 PM

I have seen more cheap shots and shirt pulling this year by every team without penalty.. No great at all they got to fix it

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 19 Feb 18 - 04:49 PM

Eh up!!!!

Wigan beat Manchester City, what a result !!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Feb 18 - 07:07 PM

Delph played dirty in the first half. I know that that shouldn't influence the giving of a straight red but in any case I though that the tackle richly deserved it. The ref's indecision was a very disturbing moment. He should explain himself really. Wigan gave us the best display of serial shot-blocking I've ever seen towards the end. Spectacular! Do City need a sheikh-up?

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 06:46 AM

Hi

The games this week have been crackers . Wigan v Man City kept me entertained right through the game. I thought the sending off correct. I think the ref changed from Yellow to Red because of remarks and behaviour by City players. But the ref needs to confirm this. When Will Grigg scored I nearly knocked my pint over. Great game and result for football.

Watched Chelsea v Barcelona - Again a good match to watch. Barcelona were lucky when the Chelsea defence made a mistake letting in Messie to score. Otherwise Messie was quiet. That away goal may end up priceless for Barcelona.

Booked my seat for United's game tonight with Seville. Hope this keeps up the standard of the earlier games.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 02:13 PM

Chelsea did show guts last night but you can't give that deadly duo a single inch. I'd have Willian in my team any day. Hope the poor chap's face is all right after all that blood streaming from it. Now for Man U getting a thrashing from Seville. Naturally, I didn't want Sevilla to get the better of Liverpool, but, as an Indalophile (a lover of Andalucia), I'd love to see them giving the reds a slap tonight. That's balance, you see. I'll be watching!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 06:46 PM

How bloody BORING was that. It was clear after fifteen minutes that there was going to be no score. Saw better games at t'Gigg in the sixties when Bury were in Division 2. Totally uninspiring. Ok, job done, but where was the fun? Where was the entertainment? Lukaku shite, Pogba anonymous, Sanchez shite. Fer chrissake. If I were a Man U fan (heaven forfend - I'd rather hack off the family jewels with a rusty machete), I'd be questioning my own sanity right now. I hope Sevilla can find that edge they so sorely lacked tonight when they come to the Theatre of Dreams. The world would be a better place without Man U. And I'm not biased, honest!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 22 Feb 18 - 09:14 AM

Hi Steve

Well we managed to do something Liverpool could,t !!! Sevilla are well known as a difficult team to beat on their own ground.

Football these days is no for fun. You of all people should know that.

Mourinho had obviously set up a team to get a result and they achieved that. Admitted it wasn't pretty. But like you say job done.

It was a World class performance by David de Gea. I don't think that Lucacu or Sanchez deserve you criticism. I agree with your Pogba comment. He came off the bench and clearly did not want to play. At one point he was laughing and discussing his hair do with one of the opposition as they were taking a corner. I thing his days are numbered. Most United fans hope this can be soon.

I also watched Liverpool v Man United under 19s in the afternoon. Liverpool won 2-0 in a good game. The interesting thing to me was that Liverpool played with the same tactics as the first team. Fast moving attacking play with strong defensive tactics.....very interesting.

Cheers

Mike

Ps please don't harm the crown jewels.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Feb 18 - 09:26 AM

Well Liverpool drew twice and put five last their goalie so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make there, Mike. And if football isn't for the entertainment of supporters, well I don't know what. Last night's game was played by two very uninspiring sides, United without firepower and Sevilla scared stiff of conceding an away goal. It wasn't exactly a joy to watch, was it?

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Feb 18 - 09:41 AM

This was one comment (out of nearly a thousand) on the Guardian website under the match report. I couldn't agree more. Man U are wasting some amazing talent under Mourino. The best thing long-term would be for Man U to win nothing this season then they could get rid of him.

Juan Mata was fantastic at Chelsea, player of the season a few times. Pogba was one of world football most desired midfielders at Juve. Sanchez world class at times at Arsenal. Martial and Rashford 2 of the games most promising young talents, full of pace.
Only Mourinho could blend all this talent and pace into dull negative pedestrian dross.
No excuses about budgets or recruitment policy. He has turned excellent attacking players into a defensive unit totally devoid of any confidence.
United were truly terrible last night. You can dress it up anyway you want but they were awful. Spurs Liverpool and man city also played away games last week and the difference is staggering. Forward thinking managers who play football to get results but also entertain the masses.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Feb 18 - 09:42 AM

Yes I can spell Mourinho!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 22 Feb 18 - 02:50 PM

Hi Steve

I was referring to the game where Liverpool lost 0-3 to Seville.

I agree with some of your comments. I do not like the style of football that Mourinho is using this season. In fact no manager since Fergie has got United to play the way they did. In fairness to Mourinho he inherited a poor side. Moyes and Van Gaal were responsible for turning a League winning side into a very ordinary team.

However I believe that the modern day fans want results. They don't care how they get them.

I believe it is the younger fans that have this attitude and they are not prepared to wait and let the Managers do their jobs.

You should appreciate this as Liverpool have gone through a similar process.

They look as though they are through the drought and are building a team to take on the best in Europe and The World.

It annoys me to see United playing as they are but I have to hope that someone will see sense and has the necessary skills and experience to change it all.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Feb 18 - 06:18 PM

Well it won't be Mourinho, that's for sure. And I think you're looking at Fergie's tenure, especially in the later years, through rose-coloured specs. "Winning ugly" was a well-known Man U mantra under him. I'd ten times rather watch Liverpool's amazing firepower, coupled with dodgy defence and goalie, keeping me on the edge of me seat. Can't remember the last time United raised a bead of sweat on me brow.

I assume you are referring to the Europa League final two years ago. The score was 1-3, not 0-3. Both Liverpool and Sevilla are now very different teams.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 23 Feb 18 - 08:03 AM

Hi Steve

Yes you are right it was 3-1; apologies.

United under Fergie at their best were a very attractive and exciting team to watch. Especially in injury time !! ( Fergie Time)

I rember when they played ( I think it was) Aston Villa at Villa. They were losing heavily and finished winning 6-4.

A Pundit asked Fergie about his defence weakness. Fergie replied " I am not worried about it. We have the team to beat any team regardless how many they score.

One of today's problems IMHO is that we have too many of Fergies team not only still on the books but playing regularly. We need new blood and a fresh Philosophy.

But to me and thousands like me will still remain faithful to The Red Devils.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Feb 18 - 08:13 AM

Flippin, 'eck, Mike, the only time there was a 4-6 scoreline between Villa and United was in 1948! I wasn't even a twinkle in me dad's eye then!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 23 Feb 18 - 02:55 PM

Hi Steve

Heck Steve you are just a young whippersnapper. I actually remember that game. Of course this was way before Fergie.

In those days my dad used watch all United's games. This was before sports came to TV.    On a Saturday evening my brother and I sat and listened to the football results on the radio with my mother.She used to make our teas but she never started to cook my dad's tea until she heard how United had gone on. If they hadn't won she didn't cook it because he used to go in the pub if they lost. We never saw him until we got up on Sunday mornings.

Tough times in those days.

United play Chelsea this week - the Pundits have forecast a 1-1 draw.

That would be a good result for you.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Feb 18 - 05:09 PM

Me dad worked at Pendleton Burtons, then at the Stretford Road branch, where he was the shop manager. Every Saturday night he'd bring the Football Pink home. It never ceased to amaze me that we'd get match reports for both City and United within three-quarters of an hour of the final whistle. The front page alternated between the two! There were two reporters, one being the estimable David Meek and the other whose name I can't recall, who did the reports. The paper was pretty rough and ready to say the least, and there were always a few errors. My favourite was "...and then Charlton shit hard into the back of the net..."

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 24 Feb 18 - 08:44 AM

Hi Steve

I remember the " Pink". For a period I used to deliver Daily papers and part of that was delivering the Pink on a Saturday evening. It was so popular that I used to take two bags....one for delivering to houses that ordered it and the other was for people who would stop me and ask for a copy. I didn't mind cos I got quite a few tips.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Feb 18 - 09:08 PM

Another three added to our goal difference, Mike! The game wasn't on telly anywhere, and anyway I had to spend the afternoon spreading tons of gravel on my drive. But I'll be watching the Man U/Chelsea game...

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 25 Feb 18 - 06:25 AM

Hi Steve

Yes Liverpool continue their march to the top. They have added consistency to their performances which has let them down on occasions.

I watched it on a streaming device of my No 1 son. This performance was exciting and every man in the side played his part. Outstanding for me was Full Back Robertson who was fantastic. He plays like an attacking wing forward driving forward with pace and feeds his 3 hungry strikers. He still manages to defend when required.

Oxade Chamberlain looked good and is now slotting in seamlessly into the Liverpool team.

I think it is amazing how they are playing; especially since they lost their "main man" . I think they are playing even better without him.

I am going into today's game United v Chelsea with trepidation , there is trouble in the camp and it looks to me like the problems Chelsea had with Mourinho.

Fingers Crossed.

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Feb 18 - 06:38 AM

Hi Mike. I couldn't find the match anywhere - is your streaming solution cloak-and-dagger or are you going to tell me about it!? ;-). Anyway, I had to get into the garden and spread a ton or two of gravel on me drive. Mrs Steve would NOT have appreciated my postponing the task to watch footie on the telly, leaving a big ugly bulk bag in full view from the house for yet another day. Saw the highlights on MOTD and Liverpool were looking good. Robertson looks like the find of the season, apart from Mo, of course. Virgil doesn't do the spectacular but his commanding presence seems to be settling the defence, and Bobby Firmino has become a real team man. I'll be watching on Sky this afternoon. Naturally, I'll be hoping for a draw. Make it exciting as you like as long as it's a draw! I like the way Liverpool are opening up a good goal difference advantage over some of the top-four challengers. Could come in handy at the bitter end...

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 25 Feb 18 - 07:18 AM

Steve, There's an APP named Mobdro which you can get for androids etc. If you download it you can access dozens of channels, news, sports, film etc etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Feb 18 - 11:32 AM

Lukaku paid the rent, Pogba looked like he was worth ten million, Sanchez was complete rubbish and Matic is a dirty bugger. Job done. Yawn. Second best of the three possible outcomes for Liverpool!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Feb 18 - 12:24 PM

Now I'm being bored by the League Cup Final.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Feb 18 - 02:05 PM

Wenger has to go. That was terrible to watch.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 25 Feb 18 - 02:10 PM

I am surprised that people invariably blame the manager, ultimately he is not on the pitch.

There are 11 plus, highly skilled (and highly paid) footballers who are there to play a game.

If THEY are not up to it, it should be THEY that carry the can.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Feb 18 - 03:30 PM

Yebbut he bought 'em, he picked 'em, he trained 'em, he tacticked 'em, he judged whether they were a good fit - and he's been there for twenty-odd years! He's a professional second-best!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: peteglasgow
Date: 25 Feb 18 - 03:49 PM

i can't understand the constant criticism that arsene wenger gets. arsenal, top 4/5 for ever, a few cups and he's produced 3/4 top sides that (when on form) has played the best football in england. he should go when he wants to.
many of us don't support the top english clubs (partick thistle, west ham) (football is a weird sort of sweet suffering with these 2) and are more than happy with much more modest and occasional success. i'm much happier going to see the jags fighting relegation (for £15) again than going to a bigger club where winning is just routine and expected. you glory hunters are just greedy and missing out on many of the small pleasures the game provides.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Feb 18 - 07:41 PM

Well I know what you mean, Pete, but I can't agree that Arsenal have been playing great football, not for quite some time now. The problem with them is that they used to, and we all fondly remember it, but these days they are just too gutless and abject. Dammit, there's too much money in it, etc., but the best players get on that pitch and forget that they're getting a hundred thousand and they play with that brilliant schoolboy competitive spirit. I don't think the standard has ever been higher. At its best it's great to watch, and my totally, utterly unbiased view is that Liverpool are the epitome of that perfect combination of on-show skill and entertainment. As ever, Man U fans will deludedly beg to differ...

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Feb 18 - 07:52 PM

I should add that I was brought up in the sixties watching Bury at Gigg Lane, only occasionally being treated to a big match at Old Trafford, Ewood Park or Turf Moor. I'm right with you on hairy-arse footie. It can be the best of the lot. Best match I ever saw was Bury vs Rotherham. It cost me a tanner to get in and I saw Alf Barlow and Len Fairclough out of Coronation Street there.

Mind you, google Burnley vs Sheffield Wed, FA Cup, on March 7 1961. I was there. It changed my life...

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 26 Feb 18 - 05:30 AM

Hi Steve

Obviously I see United v Chelsea game differently to you. For this game I thought United played the right game to see off a strong Chelsea side. Yes we had a bit of luck - but that is part of the game.
They started slowly when Chelsea could and should have won it.

They ccored first whi woke United up and they gradually improved and they completelt blocked out Chelsea's midfield. Lucaku had his best game for United and the underrated Lingard finished Chelsea off.

Not a classic by any means but United got what they wanted.
Unfortunately I was unable to have a few as I have just had surgery and have been told no alcohol until the stitches come out on Thursday.

Sorry I can't help you with the Streaming thingy. My son got it in Holland where he is working these days. He has a dongle thing ( note my grasp of things technical ). My grandson has it at the moment and came and did the necessary.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 26 Feb 18 - 06:05 AM

MikeL, download the App Mobdro onto your tablet or android if you own such a thing. Once installed you can watch dozens of channels, sport, news, films etc FOC. We have a dongle on the TV which picks up the wireless signal so we can watch on the TV screen.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 26 Feb 18 - 02:13 PM

Hi Raggy

Thanks for the heads up.

I don't have an Android device. I have three laptops, none of which I don't think are Android. My grandson connects his dongle direct to my TV.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 26 Feb 18 - 05:00 PM

An Android can be picked up for about £100, a lot less than signing up for Sky for a year!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 06:37 AM

An explosion last week killed a wild-living navy boiler man and he found himself in hell. Being used to stoking fires and extremely hot temperatures, he found hell actually quite comfortable.

When Satan went to check out the new arrival, he found him sitting in his room smiling.

“You like this?” Satan asked.

“Yes, sir,” said the sailor, “this feels like a spring day to me.”

Not wanting the new guy to be too comfortable, Satan turned up the heat a bit. When he went back the next day to see how his new arrival was doing, the sailor was still happy; he hadn’t even broken a sweat.

“I like this kind of weather,” he told Satan.

For the next few days, Satan turned up the heat more and more, but each day the Sailor looked as comfortable as ever. By Sunday, Satan decided to try something different. Rather than turn up the heat even more, he turned it off and turned on the air conditioning. Icicles formed in the sailor’s room! When he checked on the guy, the room was icy and he was shivering, but he had a grin from ear to ear, bigger than ever.

Satan was exasperated! “Why are YOU so happy?” he demanded from the sailor. “It’s FREEZING in here!”

“Well, I’m from Liverpool,” said the sailor, “and evidently they have just won the Premiership!"

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 07:07 AM

That joke might go down better at the end of NEXT season...

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 02:29 PM

Hi Raggy

I already have BT Sport on my TV and my son has installed Sky- Go for free.

Inreality I don't need anything else.

Thanks for your advice, I have filed it away in case I need it.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 04 Mar 18 - 06:48 AM

Hi Steve

Watched Liverpool v Newcastle.
Not exactly a thriller.

Liverpool compared to their recent form were poor. They started very well but Newcastle created a grip on them that they found difficult to pierce, They did score two goals but there was an element of luck in both of them.

They were never in danger of losing but were pleased to win.



But as I have been saying three points is what you are playing for and sometimes you have the win by playing ugly.

I hope we do the same on Monday when we play Crystal Palace.

I like this time of the season when all games are important for teams at the top and teams at the bottom trying to avoid relegation.

Going to be a tough fight for the top four with with Man City having taken top place. On current performance Spurs and Liverpool will take two places, leaving Man United to compete with Chelsea for the fourth place.

I could'nt help but laugh at Clopp's reaction right at the end to the " penalty" that was turned down. I thought for a minute I was watching Swan Lake.
Cheers
Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Mar 18 - 07:24 AM

Well it was a cast-iron free kick right at the edge of the box. Newcastle parked at least two buses all afternoon, even when they were losing, no doubt hoping for a chance to counter that they repeatedly showed they were too weak to execute. They managed to force Liverpool to play across the park for much of the time, making for a tedious watch as you say, but it speaks volumes for Liverpool's firepower that they broke through a number of times and got two goals. In the past they've often been frustrated by that tactic, most famously by Mourinho in his Chelsea days, but no team will be able to rely on that approach with Liverpool in future. A couple of long balls up to Salah is enough to get any defence panicking and going out of shape, and we have some damn good long passers. You're being a bit of an ould curmudgeon about the second goal, which was a world-class team goal. Great to see Hendo back on form, and Virgil is a commanding presence who has settled the defence no end.

It's a complete arse thst family matters are going to prevent me from watching the match next Saturday. I blame the Beast From The East for forcing us to put back our plans by a week. Grr.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 04 Mar 18 - 08:41 AM

Hi Steve

You are right about Sallah he is something special. Yesterday vaery early in the game he hit a volley on the turn when running at full pace. It hit the side netting but was worth a goal in itself.

Sorry to hear you won't be able to watch. I am hoping No 1 son will have ticket for me. He takes me whenever he can. His company have three season tickets but they are often taken by his friends ( one is a City fan ) No one will want to miss this one so it looks as if I will be watching at home.

Should be a great game. We would like to see United tale Liverpool on at their own gain. but I suspect his defensive attitude will not allow it,

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 04 Mar 18 - 10:35 AM

Hi
Sorry

that last sentence should have said We would like to see United take Liverpool on at their own game. but I suspect his defensive attitude will not allow it.

Cheers

Mike

PS Just watched Brighton beat Arsenal 2-1. I think this will be the end of Wenger. Sad really - he's been a great manager.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Mar 18 - 01:56 PM

I always supported Hamilton Accademicals. Just so I could do the chant

2 4 6 8 Who do we appreciated

H-A-M-I....

Oh, sod it.

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Mar 18 - 03:29 PM

It was the same for the cheerleader of Borussia Munchengladbach, the most unpopular bloke in the stadium:

"Give me a B...!"

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 04 Mar 18 - 03:33 PM

Or give me an I

give me a n

give me a v

give me a e

give me a r

oh f*** it!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 06:49 AM

Hi

I watched the farce of a so called football match between Man City and Chelsea.

What a joke as Chelsea parked the bus and sat in it for the whole game.

City treated the ploy by playing keep ball for almost the whole game. I don't blame City. It was up to Chelsea to try to attack. What a shambles to see the likes of Hazard and Willian etc to be stranded inside their own penalty area.

We play tonight and expect Roy Hodgson to try to do the same.....but he really ne3eds the points

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 08:08 AM

For the sake of Liverpool I hope he gets 'em! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 06 Mar 18 - 06:50 AM

Hi Steve United managed to pull off a late victory. Shades of Fergie ??

It was quite a good game to watch . Crystal Palace dominated in the first half and blotted United out while they created chances on the breakaways. They scored a good goal and minutes into the second half doubled their lead. From this United got the kick up the a..e they needed. Some clever substitutions by Mourinho seemed to wake them up. Removing defensive players for attackers. Rashford and Mata created havoc in the CP defence. Goals just had to come and they did. Matic's wonderful strike from 25 yards in injury time saw United home.
Everyone took a huge sigh of relief.

That's one good thing about United. They have power on the bench to bring on if necessary. Sancez and Pogba were almost invisible - not what you'd expect from such expensive players. They have'nt yet to find a way ti fit Sanchez in and clearly Pogba is not enjoying where
where he has to play.

Still, at the end of the day we are still in 2nd place.

Now we will see what Sa turday brings. If we play like we did last night Liverpool will be out of sight by half time !!

Cheers
Mike

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 10 Mar 18 - 09:50 AM

Hi Steve

YES YES YES !!

In a feisty physical game. United just about held on for a deserved victory.

The Liverpool defence showed it's soft centre as United took a 2-nil lead early on. Liverpool pressed hard but did not really manage to pierce the United defence. Their goal came from a freak own goal.

I think Liverpool expected United to park the bus, but were surprised as they threatened to score a precious third goal which would have decided the game. As it was, the score was 2-1

Rashfords's two goal were excellent but The Pool should have stopped at least one if not both.

Nothing was seen from Salah who has been so prolific such was the performance of the United defence.

It was a good game to watch with lots of excitement from both teams.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 10 Mar 18 - 10:17 AM

Clear water between the teams ............ and I dread to consider what may have been said had Liverpool prevailed !

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 10 Mar 18 - 11:02 AM

Hi Raggy

Yes I know what you mean. !!

Just seen Clop interviewed; I think he must have been at a different game.

Cheers
Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Mar 18 - 08:20 AM

I've almost completely missed out on this one. I was in the Coffee Sack on Scholes Lane in Prestwich during most of the match and caught the last frantic three minutes only, sitting in me car outside Prestwich M&S Food. Then I missed MOTD because I was driving home in the late evening. Sounds like Liverpool missed me!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 12 Mar 18 - 06:28 AM

Hi Steve

Sounds like you had an interesting afternoon ?

The last three minutes were hectic for United but they just held out.


United played much better without Pogba. Sanchez was much improved. I think Pogba is headed for the door. He has been told if he doesn't
like it he can go. He is not a happy bunny. Still he can spend his spare time counting his money !!

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Mar 18 - 07:37 AM

Man U have a habit of appointing managers who can't help falling out with the best players, then failing to get the best out of them or driving them away. Keane, Cantona, Nistelrooy, Beckham, Di Maria, Valdez, Veron, Pogba...

Sure, no player is bigger than the club. But the club doesn't apply that to their managers. You could say it started with Busby. It's one of the big reasons why Man U attracts so much derision from non-fans. That and a long-time insistence that actually playing exciting football that fans pay good money to see takes a poor second place in the priority stakes to winning ugly.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 12 Mar 18 - 10:12 AM

Hi Steve

Yes United have had some run-ins with top players. Kean for instance was a fine player, some say the best United have ever had. But Kean didn't just have problems with United. He had problems with his International Managers, and had personal problems with himself. Beckham was ( and still is ) a great clubman but his wife Posh Spice wanted him to get away to further her career. et al
not his !!! Most of the others left because they found it difficult to get in the team. Because of United's squad of players they can't all play.

It is true that they have a win mentality and this does annoy some people. They are ( have been the top crowd pullers for more years than I can remember so the must be happy. I think that many people are jealous of United's success and don't like them beating their teams.

Not only are United the best liked team in Britain but are best known and followed in the World. !!

Cheers

Mike

I do concede that since Fergie went the standard of attractive football has fallen. But Mourinho is charged with the job of building them up to their former status.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Mar 18 - 10:42 AM

Best-liked AND most-hated!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Mar 18 - 01:42 PM

Richard Osman just said it it wasn't for l's Liverpool would be iverpoo

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 12 Mar 18 - 03:24 PM

HI Steve

" Best-liked AND most-hated! "

Only by you Steve. lol

I have traveled to many countries and have found even in outlandish places The name Manchester United is valued very highly. United clubs appear in many towns and cities. We are always made welcome when we say that we are United supporters.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 12 Mar 18 - 03:36 PM

Hi

I see that Jamie Carragher - ex Liverpool Player and football pundit -is in trouble for spitting at a woman when travelling home after the United v Liverpool game.

I understand he has been suspended by Sky and has apologised to the person concerned.

I have always liked Jamie for his commitment to Liverpool and to Liverpool Football Club. One of the best Defenders in the World who IMHO did not get the recognition he deserved nor as many caps he should have.

I hope this is soon cleared up. Football needs people like Jamie.

Cheers

Mike

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: peteglasgow
Date: 12 Mar 18 - 06:59 PM

best liked (as opposed to biggest support) - partick thistle. i think the most hated changes in england - (dirty)leeds, (boring) arsenal, (fans in surrey, arrogant)manchester united, (too rich, john terry)chelsea etc ... but in scotland it is and always will be - rangers for many reasons.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Mar 18 - 09:08 PM

Billy Connolly once said that as a boy he'd always thought that the team's full name was "Partick Nil."

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Mar 18 - 09:16 PM

Apart from the Munich disaster, the only time I ever felt sympathy for United was when Nat Lofthouse barged not just the ball but also the United goalie, Harry Gregg, over the line for Bolton's second "goal" in the '58 FA Cup Final. Bet you still haven't forgiven Nat for that one, Mike!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 13 Mar 18 - 11:19 AM

Hi Steve

It was very bad decision, It was a typical Nat Lofthouse charge on the goalie. I liked Nat and the way he played, he wouldn't get away with those tackles today. The keepers get much more protection these days.
Yes I was unhappy for a while, but Football is is full of incidents like that. We have to accept them. We don't have to like them but hey, if you can't change them there's no point in moaning.

Got my system tuned up for tonight's game with Sevilla. My son is taking one of my grandsons to the game.

Que Sera Sera.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Mar 18 - 12:05 PM

Beware of the 1-1 draw!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 13 Mar 18 - 05:39 PM

Bugger !!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Mar 18 - 05:59 PM

That was a bloody disgrace. Awful tactics, scared stiff of the away goal, sloppy play giving the ball away all the time, giving Sevilla so much room at the back, totally static in the extremely boring first half, Pogba and Sanchez bloody shocking. Typical negative United, for once getting what they deserve. And who in his right mind would EVER pick Fellaini! Jayz!

Watched it on BT Sport mobile which is usually very good. But I must have had at least fifty interruptions tonight and I even missed the Man U goal. Tsk. Mrs Steve isn't keen on my swear words...

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Mar 18 - 06:01 PM

Mind you, we Liverpool chaps would take Rashford off your hands. Ten million OK...?

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 14 Mar 18 - 06:49 AM

Hi Steve you got it about right. This was about the worst game I have ever seen with United.

They appeared to have no plan they were hesitant and looked tired. Hardly any competing for the ball, no tackles etc etc They just left the field open For Seville to do as they wished.

Why they changed the side from Saturday is a mystery. Yes Sanchez, Pogba and Fellainie were appalling. The rest not much better.

They played two full games against ordinary opposition and manage only 4 shots. Not good enough. In one way I am pleased that they lost - imagine this shite playing against Europe's best !!

Sad though for my grandson who went to watch United for the first time.

No we will keep Rashford and you can have the rest for Ten Million.

Still that's football it happens to most teams.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 14 Mar 18 - 11:47 AM

I rest my case regarding Pogba ........... spoilt brat comes to mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 14 Mar 18 - 03:39 PM

Hi Raggy

There is a rumour that United are trying to swap pogba for an Italian midfielder.

He doesn't appear the be trying , he lumbers around like a water Buffalo, occasionally spraying out a great cross-field pass.

Not good enough. I think he is a bad influence on some of the players.

Cheers

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Mar 18 - 06:12 PM

Chelsea played well but were ambushed by that man Messi, the greatest. So that leaves Liverpool and City. There are no restrictions in the last-eight draw. Anyone could play anyone else. I don't think Liverpool need fear anyone, though it'd be good to get either Sevilla or Roma. City v. Barca would conveniently get one of the Pep chaps, current or erstwhile, out of the way!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 15 Mar 18 - 10:13 AM

Hi Steve

I watched the game too. Messi is out there on his own. His skill and application is fantastic. He has not just but about four changes of pace which makes him difficult to stop.

Watching this made me realise that United have a long way to go to do well in Europe.

I agree that Liverpool should fear no-one. Their style of play will make it interesting to watch but Clop will need to get his defence organised better.

I will be watching.

Cheers

Mike

ps On a football thread.....the other day on North West TV they showed a guy who had played keep up at Mount Everest. He took 8 days to make from the bottom of the mountain to the Base Camp. Keeping thr ball up as he went.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: peteglasgow
Date: 15 Mar 18 - 10:49 AM

i love to watch messi - particularly when he picks the ball up about 40 metres from goal. he can do anything from that point and without advancing a step he has already terrified every defender in front of him.

it seems almost every other player we watch is programmed to play a 15 metre pass across the pitch or behind to the full back who is cautiously taking 5 steps forward and another 5 back. this tactic can go on for a couple of minutes til clumsiness takes over or the ball is played forward towards a winger and usually goes out of play. at this point the opposition take their turn to do more or less the same.

this 'tiki-taki' style should only be employed by barcelona or spain when there is evidently a sometimes thrilling purpose.

any other team is just farting about and boring us.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Mar 18 - 11:43 AM

It can be legit to play across like that if you're trying to settle yourselves down after an onslaught by just keeping possession for a minute or two, or to try to tire your opponents by making them run as you switch sides, but it can turn into a tedious and negative tactic, I agree. Good footballers (and managers such as Mourinho) need to remember that it's a spectator sport and those spectators, whether in the stadium or at home watching telly, are the people who make the game very rich. And they deserve entertainment, not half-hour stretches of negativity or bus-parking. I'd like to see a tightening-up of what happens at throw-ins and of how long a goalkeeper can keep the ball, two areas in which time-wasting is rampant. And I hate it when we get several substitutions in the dying minutes of the game. Interrupting the flow of the game in that way is completely against its spirit.   

And what's happened to Hazard? He doesn't turn up very often these days.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 15 Mar 18 - 02:37 PM

Hi Steve

I am with you on time wasting. Another thing that should be stamped on is the players - and there are many who fall to the ground when their side is being attacked. They roll and writhe on the ground and the ref stops the game. The game is restarted by a dropped ball kickback to their goalie, so that the attacking team lose any advantage. The offending player then speeds around the pitch.

IMHO there should be a sin bin. Other sports use them effectively

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Mar 18 - 06:21 PM

Agreed!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 16 Mar 18 - 10:59 AM

Hi Steve

I have just seen the draw for the European Champions League.

I see that they have drawn Liverpool & Manchester City.

Not the best draw for either of them. But what a great match - can't wait.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Mar 18 - 04:49 PM

Liverpool need fear no-one. Get past City and the cup is theirs. Did you see them this afternoon? They demolished Watford in the most beautiful, clinical fashion, we have the best footballer in Britain bar none and we have a formidable defence coming on. Robertson, Gomez and Virgil are the future. Klopp has some minor midfield issues to fix, but he's the Big Fixer if ever there was one! Be very afraid...

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 18 Mar 18 - 11:19 AM

Hi Steve

Yes I did watch Liverpool yesterday buy for some reason I couldn't get into Mudcat earlier than this.

I agree with you about Salah. Fantastic player who jut keeps getting better. Definitely the best player in the Premier League and also most of them out there.

He has traits of Messi, Denis Law, George Best and Jimmy Greaves about him. He had the Watford defence in a complete trance, He even managed to get one defender to twizzle round and fall over without touching him.

I don't share your ( natural ) confidence about The City game and after if they go through.

We managed to win a scrappy game 2-0 against a Brighton team that made us look ordinary....which of course we are at the moment.

But as I said before a win is a win... it's not how but how many.

I believe that Mourninho has lost it !!! Such is my belief that I think had we lost.. Mourinho would be off up the road. And there is plenty of time yet. He's talking rubbish , like inheriting a poor side and needs to spend heavily next year. He's already spent over & 300 Million.!!! He's also criticising his team over the media. Not the best way to operate. He.s not going to get the best from his players that way.

Cheers Mike

Just Watching Wigan go out of the FA Cup.





you

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 19 Mar 18 - 03:32 PM

Hi Steve

According to Metro United are planning to get rid of 11 players in the Summer.

I hope his replacements are better than the ones he made this year.

I know that this is only Press rumours but........

Sorry Neither Linard or Rashford are on the list....lol

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Mar 18 - 09:11 PM

Trouble is, Mike, we get individual players who light up the planet for a while then fizzle. It seems to me that Hazard is fizzling fast. Sterling - can't see him being a superstar for long. Rooney's whole career went in fits and starts. Can think of a few others - Robinho. Balotelli. Sturridge. And Neymar hasn't exactly set PSG on fire, has he? Oppositions work out ways of neutralising individual dangerous players. Liverpool's current strength is their fab three up front. They have an amazing understanding with each other and their egos are firmly in check. They work as a unit and fully occupy defences, so when someone like Salah breaks away at pace he has space and is hard to neutralise. Klopp has a way of seeing raw potential and developing it. I can see Robertson becoming Liverpool's engine room in years to come. True greats such as Best, Maradona, Pele, Iniesta and Messi, Suarez even, are very rare and you can really only shut them up by playing dirty or by their having a manager so inept that his tactics starve them of service. We've seen a lot of that with Aguero, Rooney and Michael Owen, who, unlike Messi, can look a bit lonely and ineffectual up front when the passes don't come in.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 20 Mar 18 - 09:24 PM

Aguero?!?

Just how many goals has he managed to net for City this year, 30 ? !?

And before you start rabbiting about Salah I know he has 36.......... but 30 goals in a season is going some.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Mar 18 - 10:10 PM

He's an out-and-out striker, Raggytash, unlike Messi and Salah, who will get back and forage for the ball and menace the opposition with positional play off the ball. Salah even gets back to defend. City have a great tactical manager and Aguero has had a good time under him for sure. But he does depend on service, and on the few lacklustre City days he can look very anonymous up front. I wasn't criticising him at all but he is a different kind of footballer. I'd have the bugger on my team any day!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 21 Mar 18 - 03:49 PM

Hi Steve

Thanks for the comments. I agree entirely with you remarks about players having a honeymoon and then the roof caves in.

Liverpool usually manage to get good strikers and usually manage to keep them. There are more than I can mention but Roger Hunt Ian Rush, Michael Owen, Kenny Dalglish < John Aldridge, Fernando Torres Robby Fowler et aland not forgetting David Fairclough the first Super sub. All have excelled . I could go on but I do remember Albert Stubbins who was a handful for many a defence.

But for me the best Liverpool player I have ever seen is Steven Gerrard. This man was just fantastic and drove Liverpool to great things.

What a great Clubman !!! and we get Pogba !!! Sheeeesh.

Regards

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Mar 18 - 04:38 PM

I agree about Gerrard. What a shame he couldn't lead Liverpool to a Premier League title though. He was their engine room in the same way that I think Robertson could become - smart, accurate, FAST passing, right to your feet even at long range, getting behind the defenders, making space for the attackers and wrong-footing defences. Had Stevie been five years younger he'd have revelled in Klopp's superfast passing game. I'm afraid Torres was one of those who flattered only to deceive...

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 24 Mar 18 - 10:21 AM

Hi I watched the International friendly between England and Holland.

England won 1-0 in a largely ordinary game. England using several young players Had the best of the game and the result was a fair result.

We worked hard and pushed Holland back. But we lacked penetration in the final third.

Individually Henderson was our best player with Colleague Oxade - Chamberlain looking good in the first half. Rashford looked danderous with the few good passes that got to him. Should have had a penalty.
Felt sorry for Joe Rodrigez. getting injured to a wild tackle that the referee did not even see as a foul.

Overall a satisfying start but their are many more difficult games ahead. I don't see this team winning the World Cup.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Mar 18 - 11:02 AM

I watched part of the second half. Very pedestrian. Very non-dynamic. Plenty of passing across the park. Saw a couple of opportunities for some counter-attacking that were not taken. Can't see us playing too many games before we get the plane home from Russia!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 24 Mar 18 - 01:45 PM

hi Steve

As you say plenty of passing but not often moving forward. This passing across and back slows the attack down.

The recipients of the passes don't seem to know how to find space. Last night the were often huge gaps to run into to cause problems for the opposition.

Holland were not what you would call a good team.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Mar 18 - 04:34 PM

That was my take too, Mike. Play safe but forget ambition. Tuesday will be interesting. Italy don't need to practise as they're out, so they can really go for it and give us a workout. I hope they do. Could have said that about the Orangemen too, I suppose...

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 28 Mar 18 - 10:45 AM

Hi Steve

Italy proved to be a much harder task for England. Some dreadful defending in the first 10 minutes could have seen them 4 down.

The play was drab and unexciting until a bit of very quick thinking by Lingard saw Vardy smash the ball home.

Italy appeared to have accepted defeat but woke up towards the end.

A doubtful penalty - we must get this VAR thing sorted- saw Italy clinch a deserved draw.

I know England have a few missing "stars" but this is not good enough. Things need to improve before we go to Russia.

I have a ticket for United v Swansea on Saturday. No one son has managed to get in a company box. Taking our youngest grandson. Watched him play for school yesterday. Bit one-sided -
they won 15 - 0!!!! He got four.

Have a good Easter.

Regards

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Mar 18 - 11:30 AM

Well he did stand on the bloke's foot, Mike...

Same to you!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 28 Mar 18 - 01:59 PM

Hi Steve

Yes he did stand on his foot but I thought he dived first and then
the foot stood on his. It was not an easy one to call....even with VAR.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Mar 18 - 07:52 PM

It's pretty difficult to stick your foot under someone else's in order to make it look like he's stood on your foot. Bottom line here is that the penalty would very probably not have been given without VAR. Is that right or wrong? I suppose we want a flowing game uninterrupted by long waits for decisions. VAR isn't an answer at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 29 Mar 18 - 06:39 AM

From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 28 Mar 18 - 11:30 AM

Well he did stand on the bloke's foot, Mike...

I thought Mike approved of that:

From: MikeL2
Date: 15 Mar 18 - 02:37 PM

Hi Steve

I am with you on time wasting. Another thing that should be stamped on is the players -


Multiple 'smilies'.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 01 Apr 18 - 08:56 AM

Hi
Nigel thanks for comment. I have looked at that tackle very closely in "super " slow motion. To me it looks like the guy was tackled by two players almost at the same time. One of the tacklers slightly nudged the guy and he dived. The second tackler did tread on his foot after he had gone down. I can see why the decision was difficult,it was almost impossible the detect.

I thought the ref signaled no penalty but changed his mind and went for the VAR.

Regards

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 01 Apr 18 - 09:14 AM

Hi Steve

Back to Status Quo......!!!

I managed to watch some of the Liverpool game before watching United.

It was entertaining and for much of the game either team could have won it but a draw looked as though it was on the cards. But up popped Salas again to steal the match. What a player !!! Liverpool are defending better under the direction Van Dyk . They look more settled and organised. He is paying off his fee very quickly.

On to United. They showed more enterprise than recently. Lucacu scoring an early goal. After this it was almost one way traffic with United having several chances, one of which Sanchez scored a long awaited goal.
Lingard had a hand in both goals and was a pain in Swansea's side.
He is starting to develop into a good player. Could be a dark horse in the World Cup team ??

Looking forward to the City game , it should be a belter.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Apr 18 - 10:22 AM

Couldn't watch all of it but it looked like Liverpool won ugly. I hear that Sadio was lucky not to be sent off!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 02 Apr 18 - 09:12 AM

Hi Steve

Yes for once Liverpool needed to win ugly. At this important time in the season when every game is important either for promotion or demotion teams have to win by whatever method they can. Crystal Palace scored first and then tried to park the bus. You can't do this with a team like Liverpool unless you know what you're doing. Palace did,nt and paid for it.

Most of the remaining games will be a scramble. But non the less exciting.

Hold on to your hat.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 02 Apr 18 - 03:11 PM

I suspect the end of the season will confirm Liverpool as the fourth best team in the country.

Tottenham seem to be on a roll to take third spot.

I suppose someone will come back and tell me about when Liverpool won the Premiership .................... !!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Apr 18 - 04:50 PM

Devastating performance by Liverpool in the first half. A more worrying second half but the defence wouldn't let City pass at all. I'm over the moon 'arry!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 05 Apr 18 - 06:12 AM

hi Steve

Congratulations. Great game to watch. Liverpool overwhelmed City from the start. They were in their faces and pressed and tackled everything in sight.

City were put off their game and fLiverpool's devastating attack took what chances came.

AS you say City improved in the second half and Liverpool ( despite missing a couple of defenders,) held City at bay and prevented that important away goal.

The two fullbacks were fantastic causing havoc in the city defence in the first half and then adapting to the change which meant they had to defend. They were very impressive now in keeping City out.
Of course it is not over yet, this was only the first half - so to speak.

One thing that spoiled things was the attacking of City's Team Bus as they arrived. This could have upset some of the city players.

But as I say, congrats and I look forward to the next one.

Cheers Mike

Ps I hope Maurinho took some notes of Liverpool's approach when we meet City on Saturday.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 05 Apr 18 - 09:45 AM

I've just watched a bit of footage from inside the Manchester City as it approached Anfield. The behaviour of some of the Liverpool "fans" is appalling.

"fans"

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 05 Apr 18 - 11:10 AM

Hi Raggy

Yes I saw it all last night and it was frightening at times.
These idiots spoil it all for real fans and supporters. They damaged the coach so badly that they needed another bus.

I think that the police should have been there to protect the bus and the City team. The " fans " had announced that they were going to " give the bus a lively arrival." But as far as I could see there was no protection.

I don't know if EUFA will do anything about this disgrace to football.

If they don't no doubt the City " fans" will try to respond.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Apr 18 - 04:26 PM

The two Anfield matches against City this season have been an absolute credit to football. Last night's was a cracker but the earlier one was the best game I've watched in many a long year. Both teams came out in both games to play fast, exciting, attacking football. Exactly what the fans want to see. Sure, the bus incident was a disgrace ,but it was a handful or two of morons out of tens of thousands of well-behaved fans. Things like that happen a lot less often than they used to so let's hope the police can trace the culprits, with the help of the real supporters hopefully, so that we can put it behind us and remember the evening for the great footie.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 05 Apr 18 - 05:34 PM

Sorry Steve, you're not going to like me for saying this, but the behaviour of the crowds outside Anfield was disgraceful, absolutely disgraceful.

I know that football supporters the world over act this this, but that is no excuse.

There is simply no excuse for the actions of some of the assembled fans, even the one's who were "merely" shouting abuse should be ashamed of their behaviour.

To try and put this in context, would you have wanted your Mother to witness that.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Apr 18 - 06:00 PM

It's still a very small minority. Liverpool FC is famed for its spirited and passionate good-natured fans and the ethos of the team is to come out and play attacking and entertaining football in a great spirit. The bus incident is indeed a slight on the game. In these days of full CCTV coverage let's hope that the perpetrators will be caught and properly dealt with so that we can move on.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Apr 18 - 08:45 PM

Whilst I have no admiration for Sheikh nor oligarch money in football, nor for the riches of the Premier League in general, I do think that we have by far the best two managers in Europe in Klopp and Guardiola. Pep was brilliant at Barca, the passing game coupled with the hit squad of Xavi, Iniesta and Messi imperious, and he's advanced City to way beyond their level of competence. Klopp's strength is that he really knows how to train players as well as to inspire the team (and crowd) to believe in the themselves. All other managers look like minnows, with the exception of Poch at Spurs.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: G-Force
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 05:15 AM

Didn't United do well?

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 06:36 AM

Hi

Yes they did. Down 2-0 and won 3-2 away from home to a team that has dominated the Premiere League all Season.

And we certainly didn't win ugly !!! Yes we had a bit of luck but that comes to everyone at times. This was our time.

The satisfying thing for me was the performance of Sanchez and Pogba. Hopefully this will give that break to give them the confidence to perform and do what we have needed to see from them.

Mourinho must have given a great talk at half time.

Great for us cos we were in the pub with all our mates some of whom are City fans. They were taking the **** up to half time. Lovely to see their faces as the goals rattled in.

good day for United fans. Especially as Liverpool could only draw. Gives us more chance of staying second in The League.

I can't see City holding Liverpool on Tuesday. Clopp will have them attacking. They only need one goal and City will have to come out and attack leaving openings for that ever dangerous Liverpool attack.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 06:45 AM

Well, apart from the cast-iton fact that City should have had a late penalty and a sending-off...

But Man U did play really well in tbe second half, I'll give you that.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 06:54 AM

I'm not being taken in by that Pogba performance. It he played like that every match we probably wouldn't be 13 points behind City. The sooner he leaves the club the better. It says a lot that Guardiola didn't want to sign him.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 08:54 AM

Hi Raggy

RE Pogba I am not totally convinced by this one game. He needs to up his performance or we should get rid. The Pep refusal seems to be "Fake News".

And I think the jury's out on Sanchez too. Also the defence needs strengthening too judging by the way City pierced them at random, especially in the 1st half. Sterling missed at least four easy chances.

Steve - I agree that the penalty was the right decision. But hey I have seen many others worse than this turned down. Some you win and others you don't. We have had several like this turned down this year. The standard of refereeing over here is very poor. No wonder they haven't selected any British refs for the World Cup.

I was happy because at half time in the pub my Son checked the bookies for full time scores. They were offering 50 to 1 on a United win so we took a fiver each on it. £250 quid, plus a great United win.....I had a good dinner..!! "hic"

Cheers Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 08:59 AM

Meanwhile Brechin City have not won a single game this season

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 11:20 AM

Hi Sandman

I lived in Inverness for four years and watched a lot of football while I was there. In those days Inverness had ( I think ) 3 three teams one of which was an all amateur team. They were called Thistle , Caledonian and clachnacuddin .

I can't remember if any played Brechin, Around this tome the leagues qw
were changed and I think Brechin went into a newly formed East 2. I think Brechin did win a few in fact I believe they won their League one year.

I don't think they winn it this year...LOL

Cheers

Mike

Used to get the "real" football at Aberdeen and Dundee.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 09:07 AM

Hi Steve

I am organised to receive tonight's City v Liverpool game. Pack of Black Sheep ready in my " cupboard.

City are obviously going to go for it....they have no choice. Liverpool may have to play a game alien to them. Still it should be a cracker.

As I am completely unbiased for this game I can sit back and enjoy the ride.

I see that Liverpool asked United if they could use their training facilities. United said they needed them. Have.t Liverpool faciilties of their own? Or perhaps they thought it would save the players tiring
from that long run.

Good Luck

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 05:56 PM

Hell's teeth, I'm an emotional bloody wreck! After the final whistle I immediately wolfed down three of me mum's custard creams, it was that bad! What sheer character Liverpool showed after half-time when they looked like they might be basket cases. Was that goal offside or not? At first I thought not but I need to see replays. Whatever, it was football at its finest, both teams feisty, no negativity, both going out to attack (whenever they weren't under siege!) and win. Brilliant entertainment.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 11 Apr 18 - 09:10 AM

Hi Steve

Congratulations for a fine win. It was a very fair result. Liverpool clearly won over the two games.

I have seen some shots that say that the goal was just offside. But I am not convinced. It looked a goal to me. The usual problem of accurately deciding was he in an offside position WHEN THE BALL WAS PLAYED - I believe he wasn't, but there is just a split second in it.

It was similar to the United City game in that city played magnificently in the first halves. They could have scored four or five
But by good luck and fine defence Pool gained their deserved win.
I thought that they looked to be tiring when Salah did what he does best. That one goal completely shattered City but they kept trying.

Cheers Mike

ps I bet you are rather pleased that Barcelona went out.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 12 Apr 18 - 02:38 PM

Hi Steve

In my previous post I forgot to say that I was disappointed by the referee who made no attempt to stop Liverpool's attempts right from the kick-off to waste time. They did everything they could to slow the game down and the ref did absolutely nothing about it. Ok most teams do it towards the end of a game but from the start it is a little boring. It worked as it ruffled the City Players which upset their style of play.

I don't blame Liverpool the Ref was to blame. All good players will play to the referee. There was no time added at half time to allow for this and also for some hold-ups for injuries.

I don't think he was biassed just inexperienced.

Perhaps the rugby League method of logging time wasting and stoppages would help.

Cheers Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 13 Apr 18 - 09:10 AM

Hi Steve

Just seen the draw for Euro Championship Trophy.

Liverpool by drawing Roma have managed to avoid Real Madrid and Bayern Munich. Should have great chance of place in Final. them who knows.......anything can happen.

Cheers Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Apr 18 - 09:12 AM

We fear no-one, Mike!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 13 Apr 18 - 10:27 AM

Hi Steve

I was not implying that you should fear anyone. The way Liverpool have played this season should give them all the confidence they need. They will fear no one.

I think they will beat Roma.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 15 Apr 18 - 09:14 AM

Hi Steve

I watched Liverpool v Bournemouth yesterday.

Liverpool were completely superior in every way. It was so one-sided that it became boring.

Mo Salah should be complimented on reaching 40 goals in one season. Another really good goal made to look so simple.

I have already given my views on the young full backs - Alexander Arnold & Robertson. But I have to commend them again. They are fantastic both in defense and attack. Wonderful range of accurate pinpoint passing feeds their hungry goalscorers through-out the game.

Years ago full backs were huge guys who kicked everything above the grass and lumbered around the edge of their penalty area.

Todays' fullbacks are now wingbacks and are extremely fit and pacey
athletes, These two lads are going to be fantastick players for the future.

Just getting ready to watch United - If we dont't win today they will want locking up.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Apr 18 - 09:30 AM

I haven't seen a better goal than that one all season. I also watched the whole game. Good to see Spurs getting licked by City - even if they win their match in hand they won't overtake Liverpool due to inferior goal difference. Chelsea are surely out of it now. Klopp's strengths seem to be getting great camaraderie in his squad and really improving raw talent. Mo, Ox, Robbo and TAA are growing fast. Virgil has settled the defence and Lovren is looking good. Next season be very afraid.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Apr 18 - 12:54 PM

Har har! Lock the buggers up!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 15 Apr 18 - 02:02 PM

Just remind me will you Steve, when it was when Liverpool last won the Premiership title ..............?

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Apr 18 - 03:32 PM

Just remind me when you last saw Man U play ninety minutes of exciting, positive, entertaining football first! Who ever said it should be all about winning!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 16 Apr 18 - 05:52 AM

Hi Steve

What a bloody mess !!! United came out and for 90 minutes looked like a disorganised rabble.

They should have had an early penalty but it appears that referees have decided not to give them. But after that United reverted to passing backwards allowing West Brom to organise their defence.

They are a bogie team to United but that is no excuse for the tripe they displayed yesterday.

cheers Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Apr 18 - 05:55 AM

Who ever said it should be all about winning!

Don't bring him into it!

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Apr 18 - 05:58 AM

Heheh!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 16 Apr 18 - 05:59 AM

Hi Steve

Yes Chelsea look as if they are out of it now. Just like Arsenal who might just sneak in the back door ( like we did last year).

Yes Clopp has galvanised Liverpool - but don't think too far ahead. Clopp is already being tagetted by several Euopean clubs.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Apr 18 - 06:46 AM

He will not go. Clopp was destined for Liverpool. Even rhymes with Kop...

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 16 Apr 18 - 06:54 AM

Even better than that Dave, his name is spelt with a K just like the Kop.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Apr 18 - 06:55 AM

Well I knever!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 16 Apr 18 - 02:48 PM

Hi Dave

At the moment I do not think Jurgen will leave Liverpool. I hope he doesn't because he has blown a stream of fresh air to our football.

But a year is a long time in football these days. In the 20 teams in the Premiere League less than a quarter have been with a club for more than a year.

" Money is the root of all evil.......

Regards

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Apr 18 - 04:23 PM

He won't be tempted to move to a better club because there isn't a better club.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 07:02 AM

Hi Steve

I don't know what you are using to compare "Better" clubs.

I think the Real Madrids and Barcelonas of this World not to mention Bayern Munich and Paris St Germain etc, could disagree.

We will soon see how they compare in the Europe Championship.

Klopp is only human and may be persuaded by BIG MONEY.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 07:32 AM

PSG are hopeless at the moment and Barca are a waning force, far too dependent on Messi, and Iniesta is not the force he was. Real Madrid are having a clean-out this summer, Ronaldo is getting on and Bale is going out of favour. Jurgen is doing a mighty job at Liverpool, he's building a team, not a bunch of superbrats, he's amazing at getting the best out of young, developing players, morale is great and why would he move?

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 11:26 AM

Hi

We'll see Steve. We'll see.

Getting ready to watch United ( I must be mad !!)

Like United Bournemouth are an inconsistent team. So anything could happen.

Don't know what team Mourinho is going to turn out.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 19 Apr 18 - 02:51 PM

Hi Steve

United won quite easily despite some enterprising play by Bournemouth.
This despite 7 changes to the usual United team. Pogba was deservedly
Man of the Match.

This win keeps United in second place, where judging by the run ins they should be able to stay there. Of course I am not able to judge what impact on this will be with their involvement in the FA Cup.

Of course Liverpool have similar involvements in Europe.

Could be only decided on last day.

" Many a slip............"

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Apr 18 - 03:23 PM

Well Spurs slipped up so the probable identities of the top three at least are becoming clearer. I watched part of last. night's match. At least Man U seemed to want to play football but the match hardly set the night on fire.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Apr 18 - 09:19 AM

Great article in today's Guardian (as ever with me you'll have to google):

Collective triumph

"Liverpool’s success without Coutinho is a testament to Klopp’s genius"

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 20 Apr 18 - 11:24 AM

Hi Steve

Yes very good article. I was one of the many that thought Liverpool would struggle when Cortinho went. Rightly much of the credit goes to Klopp's bringing in Van Dijk. This move has steadied, organised and energised the defence.

I don't know how much Van had to do with the emergence of the full backs, but I believe he has given the kids opportunities to attack something which they have taken on to great effect.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 11:21 AM

hi Steve

Oh Dear !!! Not a bad team West Brom eh ??

Just settling down to watch United v Spurs in FA Cuo Semi Final.

Should be good.

Not betting on United though.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 06:01 PM

Well, Mike, it was an outrage. Liverpool were denied a stonewall penalty and West Brom should DEFINITELY have been down to ten men after Hegazi punched Ings in the stomach, apparently unseen by the referee.

Having said that, I thought that Joe Gomez was below par and Alberto Moreno was still the give-the-fans-a-heart-attack merchant. Maybe Jurgen rested one too many of his best.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 22 Apr 18 - 04:58 AM

hi Steve

The Referee certainly wasn't on Liverpool's side. I wouldn't have said it was a certain penalty but we have seen many given for less. Liverpool ( due to team changes) lacked their usual aggression and sparkle. But when you are in multiple competitions you have to try to manage it. Klopp was not happy....he even complained about a dry pitch.!!!! Does he not know that it is the same for both teams??. Pity they didn't play today....it's p****** down here.

Last week United made 7 changes and still won 2-0.

Yesterday this paid off big time. He brought his top players back with great results.

This was United at their best. Aggressive and with pace they deservedly beat Spurs and they had to come back from a goal down.
This was a great match to watch with both teams going hammer and tongues at each other.

The ref was poor here too. He ignored Spurs constant diving, their were more dives than in the Commonwealth games diving competition.

Pogba and Sanchez both were great and for me Matich was the best player. He works under the radar very much like Michael Carrick he just gets on with it.

I will be watch the Pool next weak and know it will be a great game in which I hope Liverpool get a good result.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 23 Apr 18 - 02:26 PM

Hi Steve

Many congratulations on Liverpool's Mo Salah'S award of the PFA Player of the Year Award.

It was well deserved. Not only has he achieved 40+ goals this season it is the manner in which he scored them. He has a wonderful temperament and takes everything in his stride without any of the usual Hype associated to footballers these days.

A wonderful recognition for both him and the Liverpool team that has assisted him in this honour.

Cheers Mike

PS hope he doesn't score against Man United in the coming season.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Apr 18 - 09:55 AM

I'm on the edge of my seat even though it's five hours to kickoff. Tonight I'm having risotto off my knee out of a big bowl and drinking wine even though it's Tuesday and I'm not supposed.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 24 Apr 18 - 10:14 AM

Hi Steve

Don't spill your risotto whatever you do. One of my favorite
dishes. I do them here at home and vary the dish to suit what we have in the fridge. Lovely grub.

I understand your excitement as I often feel the same, and not just when United play.

I too am looking forward to the game - have had to move wifie into the another room because my BT box is connected to my large screen TV in the lounge.

I will be willing Liverpool on. They deserve to get something out of this season.

Fingers Crossed

Regards Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 24 Apr 18 - 02:27 PM

Hi Steve

In position ready for kick off. Already a fantastic atmoshere.

Klopp has got his wish about not having a dry pitch- it has not stopped raining all day here. Has this guy got contacts up there /

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Apr 18 - 04:43 PM

Bejaysus, at least Liverpool have kept it interesting for the second leg. I always like to look on the bright side, tha knows!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 06:16 AM

How's about this for a gorgeous piece of purple prose from Barney Ronay in today's Guardian, describing Mo's first goal:

"It began with the most vital of all his many beautiful goals this season, one of those moments when the game seems to stop. Salah took the ball inside the penalty area found himself with a tiny pocket of space. With a shift of feet he looked up and produced with no real backlift a shot that did something extraordinary, the ball seeming to hang under the lights, generating a strange moment of hush as it arced under the bar before crashing down over the line."

Heheh. I agree with every word!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 09:24 AM

Hi Steve

WOW WHAT A GAME

I agree whole-heartedly with the description of Mo Salah's first goal.
Magnificent in it's simplicity and in it's importance.

Up until this goal both teams were slugging it out and attacking each other. The goal seemed to affect Roma and their defence crumbled.

From this point Liverpool tore holes in the shakey defence and should have had more then the five they, Sane alone missed three good chances.

There was a blip near the end which as you say leave a small chance for Roma to hit back.

Riveting stuff.

Man of the match undoubtedly Salah with 2 goals and 2 assists. Van Dyjk Looked composed and for the most part held the defence together.

Looking forward to next week. I cant see Liverpool giving away a 3 goal lead.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 06:04 PM

Cheers, Mike.

Well I've just watched the Bayern/Real match and what a debacle it was. Bad tackles, injuries galore, stop-start, no class, no quality, golden-balls Cristiano hardly getting a look-in (I have a great photo of Mrs Steve next to his bronze statue in Funchal, where he was born and where he's the stellar man of all time). As Real got two away goals and are winning, it should be Liverpool-Real in the final, but who knows. And Real have an absolutely terrible goalie, which could help...

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 26 Apr 18 - 02:53 PM

Hi Steve
I did not see the match. Visitors arrived unexpectedly, so all I know is what the papers said.

We were out in Funchal many years ago and we were walking uo near the Sports arena where there was a schools competion going on. It was very hot so we called in the ground and got some cold drinks. As the children were playing the Funchal football league football team were training. Me & my wife took some great pictures of the children and one or two of the Footballers.I had taken some videos. Some years after we were sorting out a huge pile of pictures and lo and behold on my videos there was a familiar face ( not then) of Christiano Ronaldo training.

Of course I saw him play for Man United many times after this.

Small World eh ??

We did go to Madeira a few times after this but never saw him again.

On one of our walks way off the beaten track on a levada we came across a Manchester United supporters club.

We were made VERY Welcome !!!

Cheers   Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: olddude
Date: 28 Apr 18 - 09:11 AM

Mo is the man in my books amazing

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 29 Apr 18 - 11:12 AM

Hi Dan - long time no see.

Yes Mo has been a fantastic winner for Liverpool this year. He is backed up brilliantly by Roberto Firmino who has assisted Mo.....and has scored a good many goals himself.

Actually neither of them scored against lowly Stoke City yesterday but the team had some changes and no doubt an eye on next week's Euro semifinal second leg. They are in a good spot but the have to finish it.

Good to hear from you.. Hope you are well and pulling in some big ones.

Regards

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 30 Apr 18 - 02:43 PM

Hi

I went to Old Trafford yesterday. Went to see Wengers' Goodbye .

He picked a weakened team which lowered the game. Even so United did not dictate as we all thought they would. They scored early on on then went to sleep. An Arsenal equaliser woke United up and they attacked a now packed Arsenal defence without looking like scoring. In injury time United clinched a game they should have won hands down.

One consolation is that they still hold the second place that they have held all year and in doing so they have now qualified for next years'
European League Championship.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 May 18 - 01:40 PM

What about Brechin City, they lost every match apart from four draws, still they are a part time team in a league of full timers[apart from dumbarton

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 02 May 18 - 04:27 AM

One more win will see Cardiff City automatically make it back into the Premiership.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 May 18 - 04:41 AM

I'm actually in a location where there will be areas I need to avoid this evening... More on that later...

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 02 May 18 - 02:20 PM

Hi Nigel

Hope that Cardiff get the win they need. I always enjoyed watching them when they were last in the Premiere League#
Good luck

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 02 May 18 - 02:25 PM

Hi Seve

Sounds interesting !!

I am just getting ready to watch Liverpool v Roma. On paper Liverpool should win but sport does not always work out like this.

If Liverpool produce their fantastic away game there should be no problem.

I will be shouting for them.

Good luck

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 03 May 18 - 11:21 AM

Hi Steve

Well done Liverpool. Not the best football I have seen from either team. Lots of misplaced passes and some dull passages. Both teams tried to to score from break-aways. Liverpool scored an early goal which gave them some confidence. Unlucky own goal equalised. Roma's attacks were spoiled by reckless shooting giving the Liverpool goalkeeper little to do. Despite all this the game was exciting.

A second goal seemed to have decided the game but even tho Roma scored two late goals Liverpool never looked like losing.

So now it is Real Madrid. If liverpool turn up with their best game I think they can beat Ronaldo and mob. Hope so....we need to have an English team to win.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 06 May 18 - 09:26 AM

Hi

Oh dear we managed to lose to Brighton. We beat top teams and lose to lowly placed teams. Did not see it had a do with my in-laws -hic...hic.
Just coming round after drinking far too much beer and Scotch.

Sorry to hear the sad news re Alex Ferguson. We wish him well and hope that he can turn this around.

We are still not able to claim second place but West-Brom beating Spurs helps;

Cheers Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 07 May 18 - 02:34 PM

hi Steve

It has gone very quiet here since the Chelsea v Liverpool game!!!

The 1-0 loss for Liverpool whilst not too surprising but it could leave a period of anxiety on Merseyside especially if Chelsea win their outstanding games. I can see a situation where Liverpool finish outside the top four, unlikely but the end of season matches have turned form round and nothing is impossible.

Of course Real Madrid rightly has to be their priority and if they win their position in the premiere League will not be o problem.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 11 May 18 - 06:33 AM

Hi Steve

United finally sealed 2nd place in the Premier league. They have held this position all season, not bad for a boring team eh?

The points they have dropped are mainly to the lower teams which They should beat. Still I think this is easily solved.

Liverpool have yet to clinch a place in the top four. Sunday's games will solve this.

United and Liverpool both have important Cup Finals shortly this may affect Sunday's team selections. .......Chelsea too are in this position but they will want a top four place.

Still a lot to play for.

Regards

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 May 18 - 06:49 AM

Anyone going to watch the FA final next week? USA vs Russia... :-D

I remember when it used to be the first Saturday in May. When Mrs G and I got wed (5 May 1973) Sunderland beat Leeds. Loads of people kept nipping out of the wedding with transistor radios glued to their ears :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 May 18 - 06:50 AM

FA Cup final that is...

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 11 May 18 - 07:44 AM

Loads of people kept nipping out of the wedding with transistor radios glued to their ears :-)
Don't give Prince William (and other guests) ideas. Although these days it would be mobile phone screens.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 May 18 - 09:04 AM

I knew there was something else going on that day! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 11 May 18 - 11:06 AM

Hi Dave

My No 1 son cancelled his wedding because he realised after booking the day. Man united were playing at wembley.

Ironically they were playing Liverpool. Think it was 197 they won 2-1..

I was playing cricket some years ago and I was batting when Man U scored in a different game. I pushed the ball and started to run and as I passed my partner he stopped and was run out. He had heard someone give the score from the pavilion!!!. WE lost 3-2 to Arsenal.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 11 May 18 - 02:28 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 May 18 - 03:18 PM

One point from Brighton, lads, that's all. Let Brighton have the other one...

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 12 May 18 - 09:56 AM

hi Steve

based on recent games involved with lower teams anything can happen. I wouldn't back against Liverpool getting the point they need but it could be " an itchy bum " game to quote Alex Ferguson. Alex is still poorly but hopes are high.

Cheers

Mike

PS. We will be going to North Wales for a few days so you will miss my sparkling humour etc.....lol

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 May 18 - 01:06 PM

Well we did it at a stroll. We're in the CL next season whether we beat Real Madrid or not, so that's one lot of pressure off. And Liverpool play the most beautiful football. Adelante!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 14 May 18 - 03:38 AM

Still one Welsh team in the premiership, Cardiff going up, Swansea going down.
Ah well.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 May 18 - 04:40 AM

It would've been good to see two. It was good to see all last year's promoted clubs surviving. Sadly, the PL is still an elite Top Six then the rest. Quite often this season, teams from "the rest" have shown the big boys that spirit, tactics and sheer hairy-arsed determination can trump the spoiled-brattery fed by oil or oligarch money...

I see that Cristiano is demanding pay parity with Messi otherwise he may leave Real Madrid. Half a million quid a week. I wouldn't even know what to do with one week's-worth of his salary....

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 May 18 - 12:42 PM

Fer chrissake, the ref is playing for Man U. Phil Jones should be OFF - cast-iron! Come on Chelsea!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 May 18 - 01:45 PM

Ashley Young - blatant handball - penalty - NOT GIVEN!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 May 18 - 04:17 PM

Correct result! Brilliant defensive display by Chelsea, Man U terrible in the first half, better but still a bit clueless after half-time, their £95 million man missing the sitter of the season. Justice done!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 20 May 18 - 06:36 AM

Hi Steve

I don't agree with your harsh description of the game.

The bad decisions by the ref were not only against Chelsea.

The deliberate vicious back header against Jones went unpunished and several wild tackles mowing Sanchez down were completely ignored.

Chelsea had clearly targeted him. There were other fouls ignored.

The second half was all United and only desperate defending held them out.

Yes Pogba missed a sitter which would have leveled the game.

But Chelsea deserved to win as we were just not good enough on the day.

Now we await Liverpool v Real Madrid. I promise the I am not biased and will give a fair comment on how I saw the game. I am hoping Liverpool can achieve a victory.

Cheers Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 25 May 18 - 09:26 AM

Hi Steve

We are very close to the Euro Championship final.

I am looking forward to a great game between two fantastic attacking sides. Real Madrid are slight favourites but that will not worry Liverpool.

Having said that it should be an attacking game, I think the game will depend on the performance of the defending sides.Real has a defence that has been together and have lots of big game experience. Virgil Van Dyjk has toughened up Liverpool's defence and if he can hold them together Liverpool can cause a huge surprise.

I hope so as I will be behind Liverpool for this one.

Best of luck

Cheers Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 25 May 18 - 09:34 AM

You and me both MikeL. come on Liverpoooooooooooooooooool!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 May 18 - 09:56 AM

Apparently, in recent times, a Prince getting married and Liverpool winning have boded ill for the Pope!

Coincidence?

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 25 May 18 - 02:43 PM

Hi Dave

I did not know that...... but if ( when) Liverpool win Jurgen Clopp will be King and Pope of the city.

Just revving up for the game.

Cheers Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 25 May 18 - 02:49 PM

Hi

I live next d oor to a "scouser". Salt of the Earth. He is trying to get to the match - his flight was cancelled so he is trying alternatives. I haven't heard how he is going on.

cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 26 May 18 - 03:41 PM

Hi

Half Time 0 - o; Sad to lose Salah. Real Madrid lost one too.

Scoreline about right. Liverpool had a good start but Madrid coming back just before Half Time.

A lot of football t o come.

Cheers mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 27 May 18 - 05:13 AM

Hi Steve

Twas not to be. The injury to Salah seemed to affect the whole team.

Of course the blunder by the keeper didn't help. Although Liverpool Equalised Real were superior and another goal seemed likely....and what a goal !!! Worth winning any Cup Final.

Real's midfield dominated and Liverpool visibly tired as another Bale goal was gifted by fumble fingers in goal.

The clash between Salah and Ronaldo never happened. Ronaldo was poor and did next to nothing.

For me Man of the Match for me was Marcello - all over the place both in attack and defence. but the whole of the Real midfield overcame Liverpool.

So Liverpool join Man United in the no trophies this year club.

Regards

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 27 May 18 - 05:23 AM

Unbelievable. I had to wonder how they managed to get to the final.

Certainly not the Liverpool who have run riot through other teams defences this season.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 27 May 18 - 08:55 AM

Hi Raggy

No this was a very low version of Liverpool. I know that Salah was missing for most of the game. But that happens in Football. Remember Man United lost Lucaccu their leading scorer.

It does show a weakness in Liverpool's squad. Compare their sub's bench to Real's. Most of the players on their bench are all potential first team players.

Salah's replacement was Allana who ran all over the place but acheived absolutely nothing. Don't think he will have impressed Southgate.

Mohamed Salah's injury and Loris Karius' calamitous keeping will haunt Liverpool's broken dreams for years to come.
We all knew about Liverpool's weakness with goalkeepers. So Clopp certainly must have been aware of this.

It went very quiet in the pub last night - the Liverpool fans have been taking the **ss for the last few weeks.

What goes around......

Cheers Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 May 18 - 06:49 PM

Sergio Ramos cynically took out Salah. It was perfectly deliberate and premeditated from a man who has form. It knocked the stuffing out of Liverpool, who had dominated up to that point. Ramos knew that the only way to win was to scupper Salah, and, by doing so, he wrecked the match. Adam Lallana hasn't had much football this season so we can excuse his relative quietness on the night. The goalie made two horrible mistakes, 'tis true. When a goalie makes a mistake, it's a goal. When an outfield player makes a mistake, it's a free kick. Had Salah survived, it's pretty certain that neither of those goalkeeping errors would have happened.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 28 May 18 - 10:59 AM

Hi Steve

I don't quite agree with your comments re Salah/ Ramos. Yes of course Salah was targetted. Every team picks out players that are going to be a problem.

Having said that I don't think it was a brutal tackle. There was a bit of wrestling as Salah tried to push Ramos off - they were holding each-other as they fell to th ground. Unfortunately Salah fell awkwardly with Ramos on top. He unfortunately landed on his shoulder. Sad but this happens in sport.

I can't see a connection between the Salah injury and the goalkeeper's blunders. It should have made him more determined to keep Real out.
In any case I believe it was a Clopp problem. Surely he shoud have changed the Keepers.

Salah is going to be targetted and he will need look after himself and get protection from his team.protection.

I am old enough to have seen Stanly Matthews. He took loads of stick but learned to avoid it. George best was another.( Tommy Smith ??) More recent was Paul Scoles who was targetted by Teddy Sheringham in his ( Scoles's first game. Brian Robson " had words with Sheringham He stayed away.

All part of the game.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 May 18 - 05:09 PM

Watch it again in slo-mo, Mike. It was a typical Ramos piece of cynical play. His clear intention was to take out Salah. The fact that it "happens" doesn't make it any fairer. Ramos knew that up to that point Liverpool were dominating. He knew exactly what he was doing. Hope he reflects on that in years to come when he contemplates his trophy cabinet. He's a cheat.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 16 Jun 18 - 06:18 AM

Hi Raggy

I hope you don't mind me using you thread to use for The World Cup.

I have watched parts of most of the games already played. I felt that the first three were boring to watch, with a poor standard of football.

However last night I watched Spain v Portugal. What a game !!!
A fantastic game to watch with some of the best football I have seen for a long time. Spain went behind twice and each time then they equalised. Then Spain went ahead near the end and it looked all over.....but no.....up stepped Ronaldo with a fantastic free kick to bring the game level. ( He had already scored 2 so this made a fantastic hatrick).

I think the result was a fair one even though Spain did bominate to some extent.

Seeing this game made me think that England are way behind the top sides and will do well to get through the qualifying games.

I hope I am wrong but we will see.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 16 Jun 18 - 09:05 AM

Hi

Just watched France v Australia.

Poor slow game. France the supposed favourites were held in check by a stron Aussie defence and an occasional foray into the French penalty area.

France looked tired and clumsy with many misplaced passes.

Some controversial decisions. France were awarded a penalty which was disputed. So they introduced the VAR service from which the Referee awarded a goal which in my view was wrong. Soon after Var again was difficult to prove ball fully over the line. Goal again awarded.

No such problems when French defender crazily punched the ball in the penalty area.

France ran out very lucky winners 2-1. They will have to improve if they want to qualify for later rounds.

cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 16 Jun 18 - 10:12 AM

What you post has nowt to do with me me old love.

As for sport I would far rather watch Hurling, Gaelic football, Rubgy or Cricket than these nancy boys feigning injury, cheating and generally being very unsportsman like.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 10:14 AM

Hi

Phew !!! I watched Yesterday's games.

Some great football and some surprises. Mexico beat current World Champions - and it was no fluke !!!

Equally surprising was Favorites Brazil only managing to draw with Korea.

Cant wait to see England tonight but I think that they will have to play their best to win this one. Fingers crossed.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 01:19 PM

Not chopped liver on the pitch, ICELAND played international powerhouse, ARGENTINA to a draw. Argentina has three cities which each have populations about the size of all Iceland, and overall population 120X times that of that opponent. Iceland is my new hero.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 04:37 PM

Hi John Thanks for reme that I missed out that fantastic performance by Iceland. I was not surprised because I remember watching them Beat England in the Euro Championship.

As you say How they manage to get a team like that with such a small population is fantastic.

Cheers

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 04:46 PM

Hi

Just watched England beat Tunisia. After a great start where we could and should have scored 3 or four goals, we lost our way a little and a soft decision gave Tunisia a penalty to put them level.

We kept at it and towards the end we got the winner which we deserved.

Harry Kane scored both goals but rest of the he was being wrestled to the ground by one of their "heavies".

to our credit we tried to play attacking football to the end, despite Tunisia parking the bus.

So onward and upward,

Cheers Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Jun 18 - 04:48 AM

The ref was terrible, and, but for that last goal, there would be ructions today. Several of the Tunisians were play-acting cheats and they got away with it almost entirely. Apart from the great start and the period after Rashford and Loftus-Cheek came on (way too late), England were very uninspiring. Every time Stones got the ball in deep midfield the game almost ground to a halt as he sat on the ball looking around indecisively, allowing Tunisia to regroup. Time and time again that happened in the second half and he wasn't the only one. Swift passing and running, scaring the opposition with pace, are the way to intimidate inferior teams. That's how we got 'em in the end but we'll need more than a few minutes of that per match if we wish to survive against the big boys. I think our turning point will come, one way or the other, in the Belgium game. If we sit back and throw it because "we've qualified anyway" the main contenders will see us as easy meat and our confidence will be shot.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 19 Jun 18 - 10:49 AM

Hi Steve

I agree with all your comments about the England game.

How Tunisia got away with their sneaky foul tactics I don't know.
Apparently the ref used VAR but he mustn't have had it switched on!!!

I think even when England eventually got round Tunisias's penalty area they just used short passes and tried to walk the ball into the net.

They may have enough to beat Panama but if they do get through they will need to improve. How about Vardy,Rashford and Kane as the strike force ???

My man of the Match was Jordan Henderson.   

Cheers Mike

PS just seen that Japan beat ten mn Colombia.....getting interesting.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 20 Jun 18 - 10:10 AM

Hi

Just watched Portugal struggle through against Morocco to win 1-0 ( Scorer Ronaldo with a brave header).

Good physical game with Morocco's attacking game unable to get that important goal.

Portugal just did enough and played much of the game at half pace.
Very professional performance which we have come to expect from the Euro Champions.

Morocco unfortunately go out of the competition at this early stage.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 22 Jun 18 - 10:36 AM

Hi

The last couple of days have made it plain to see that top teams nhave all had a difficult time. Today Brazil just beatCosta Rica in injury time. They have not an easy ride this year. Germany, Argentina and today Brazil struggled and are not sure of qualification.

The Referee today was excellent and was booking players for wrestling and shirt pulling. He also booked players for diving and for time wasting. Hope other refs were watching.

By and large most teams are capable of beating any other team. except Saudi Arabia and Egypt. Pity, Salah never got a chance to shine.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 24 Jun 18 - 01:31 PM

Hi

Watched England v Panama. England were excellent and they ignored the stupid dirty fouls that were made by a far inferior team. The referee did penalise the worst of the fouls and Harry Kane slotted away the spot kicks.

John Stones got in the act by scoring two headers and Jessie Lingard scored a beautiful goal. I thought Lingard was the best player in a fine English performance.

As the teams went in for half time at 5-0 it appeared that the referee had words with the Panama coach and things got more settled in the second half. They stopped the foul play and the looked a better side for it.

England obviously eased up which made sense in the heat.

They have qualified for the next round and will play Belgium to see who wins the Group.

Well done England. They have a long way to go yet but this was encouraging.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Senoufou
Date: 24 Jun 18 - 01:41 PM

We were cheering for Senegal, but the result was a two-all draw.
My husband thought that Japan played with a lot of agility, and that Senegal were a bit disappointing in comparison with their performance in the past.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 25 Jun 18 - 10:13 AM

hi Sen

I watched the game and thought that a draw was a fair result as Senegal were not up to there usual high standard.

Still as the song says.......ther's always Tomorrow ( sic).

Regards Mike.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Jun 18 - 11:35 AM

This Golden Boot malarkey. Harry Kane, much as I like the bloke, is El Capitan and gets to decide who takes the pens, i.e., him. So he scores five goals in two games, three of them pens, one of them a flukey deflection from someone else's shot that he knew bugger all about, just one a proper striker's goal. John Stones score two classy headers in the one match. I know who I think deserves the kudos more...

Lingard is brilliant. As with Rashford, he seriously needs to get away from Mourinho.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 26 Jun 18 - 09:23 AM

Hi Steve

I agree with you comments about Harry Kane and the Golden Boot.
This is the man who a couple of months ago claimed a goal to try and boost his goal total. By doing so he was a) Cheating his colleague and b) Cheating the other runners for the title.

With regards to Lingard and Rashford I disagree. It would be like Liverpool getting rid of Salah.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 26 Jun 18 - 09:29 AM

Hi

The competition is really hotting up.

Last night Spain and Portugal were run very closely by lower rated teams.

What is also clear is that the standard of referees is poor and the appearance of VAR has muddied the water.

One thing ( among others) that needs to happen is to stop groups of players surrounding the Ref at the slightest chance. Captains only should be allowed to approach the Ref.

cheers Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jun 18 - 10:32 AM

Jose is a very long way from getting the best out of those two, Mike. They'd blossom away from Man U. Agreed about refs getting mobbed. Disgraceful stuff. And look how long it's sometimes taken the ref to get control before a penalty can be taken. If you stand in your own six-yard box and have to be repeatedly ordered to get out of it for a penalty to be taken, you should be sent off. It's cheating. You know the rules.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 27 Jun 18 - 09:31 AM

Hi

Possibly your right but both of those players have joined Man United as children and have been brought up and are being developed by the Club.

I think that Mourinho's style maybe cramps the attacking talents of both players. However They will be being developed in the next year or so.

United have a history of buying top players for " loads of money"This can at times cramp the younger players. But they get well looked after and they will be given their chance a la The Class of 92 .

Getting ready to watch the Germany game. Don't like this playing two games concurrently. My remote is smoking...lol

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 27 Jun 18 - 01:28 PM

The Krauts are knocked out!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Senoufou
Date: 27 Jun 18 - 01:40 PM

And by South Korea!! They didn't even score a goal! (2-0)
Husband still at work - can't wait to tell him when he gets home, he'll be astonished.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Leadbelly
Date: 27 Jun 18 - 04:37 PM

Yeah,Bonzo3legs,but after all this was not unexpected at all and - therefore - no real surprise. It will not take too much time until Mrs. Merkel will make a same experience. Hopefully, Kraut-Manfred from Germany...

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jun 18 - 09:01 PM

I'm almost as deliriously happy about Germany getting kicked out as I am when Man U get beaten. I don't understand myself when it comes to such things, but by Christ it's pleasurable...

"Is that goalkeeper allowed to do that?!" cried Mrs Steve. "When it comes to Germany, the more often the better!" retorted I!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 28 Jun 18 - 03:45 AM

"So Long, Farewell, Auf Wiedersehen, Goodbye
The German team decided not to try-y"

(With apologies to Rodgers and Hammerstein)

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Senoufou
Date: 28 Jun 18 - 04:02 AM

Husband has been watching the South Koreans' second goal over and over again. He thinks it's hilarious - it sort of popped in, with no opposition, and the goalie seemed to be otherwise occupied.

He's going to be at work again during the England match tonight, much to his annoyance. He reckons it'll be a draw.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Senoufou
Date: 28 Jun 18 - 04:05 AM

Hahahahahaaaa Nigel! :)

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Jun 18 - 04:30 AM

Don't mention the VAR...

(Not one of my originals, I hasten to add!)

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 28 Jun 18 - 04:46 AM

Extended slightly, feel free to add to:

So Long, Farewell, Auf Wiedersehen, Goodbye
The German team decided not to try-y.
    Dum diddi dum dmm dum dum dum,
    Dum diddi dum dum dum.

With South Koreans trying not to lau-augh
The German goalie’s in the other ha-alf.
    Dum diddi dum dum dum dum dum,
    Dum diddi dumb dumb DUMB!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Senoufou
Date: 28 Jun 18 - 06:00 AM

Hee hee Nigel. I just sang this to my husband (he's not left for work yet) and he roared. He knows 'The Sound of Music' very well.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: keberoxu
Date: 28 Jun 18 - 04:43 PM

Did I read that right?
Belgium defeated England ??

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 29 Jun 18 - 05:36 AM

hi

England were beaten by a clearly superior team. Of course this might not be a "real" game because both teams played sustantially weakened sides.

The plan of playing Rashford and Vardy up front was a failure neither really got in the game. Some of the fault could be put down to a weak midfield    Rashford did have a couple of runs, including a missed chance.

It proves that Mourinho.s plans and development of Rashford is correct he is not yet quite ready for the big time, he can feature as an impact player when coming off the bench.    I think the same goes for Alexander Armstrong and Loftus Cheek, bright futures but not quite ready for the World Cup.

So it's Colombia next. Should be interesting.

Cheers

Mike k

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Jun 18 - 07:44 AM

What a shame. Couldn't bring myself to watch what was a charade and a smear on this so far hard-fought World Cup. Colombia are a tough ask. I don't fancy our chances against them.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Senoufou
Date: 29 Jun 18 - 08:42 AM

My husband has hung two enormous England flags on the front of our bungalow. Strangers might think we've joined the English Defence League.
But after watching yesterday's match repeat, he was tempted to take them down again.
As my old Irish mother would have said, he was 'torolly disgosted'.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Jun 18 - 09:22 AM

I don't know anything about football and only saw snippets of the earlier games before catching about 75% of last night's match but I must say that England seem to be showing themselves as a world class team after years in the wilderness.

Very impressed with the accuracy of the passing and how they moved the ball about. Finishing and defense seem a bit weak but nowhere near as bad as previous teams.

But what do I know!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 29 Jun 18 - 10:50 AM

hi dave

For a man who professes to know nothing about football that was a good

appraisal.

BUT BIGGER THINGS LIE IN STORE.

This side is a team and play together and for each other, unlike previous teams that contained several " star players".

I hope when Gareth Southgate ( Manager) Plays his best team, many of whom sat on the bench last night.

The problem is that England has improved, but so have some they have to play.

I am not writing them off, just hoping they can play their best games. It will be difficult.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 29 Jun 18 - 11:01 AM

Hi Sen

I noticed when out walking today that many houses and cars that were displaying English flags have removed them. Temporally I hope.

My Old granny from Barnsley would have said " sithee them silly boogers did nowt "

Lets hop an improvement can occur.

Regards

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 29 Jun 18 - 12:46 PM

Excuse me for being cynical, but I wonder if England lost "on purpose" in order to be in the "weaker" section of the knock out phase.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Senoufou
Date: 29 Jun 18 - 01:19 PM

Haha Mike! This morning my neighbour-across-the road said, "Cor blarst gal. England weren't too cracky larst noit! Oi reck'n yew orter tairk them bloomin' flags down"

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 29 Jun 18 - 02:27 PM

hi Raggy

" Excuse me for being cynical, but I wonder if England lost "on purpose" in order to be in the "weaker" section of the knock out phase."

I am sure that this would have been discussed by both teams.

I don't believe that England deliberately Played to lose.

Colombia are by no means a weak team.

If they did deliberately lose they are walking on thin ice.

cheers

mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 30 Jun 18 - 11:18 AM

ARGENTINA, ARGENTINA !!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 30 Jun 18 - 01:00 PM

Hmmm...........

France 4 Argentina 3

Now I don't claim to know a lot about football but I think that means that France progress to the next round and Argentina make arrangements for their flight home.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 30 Jun 18 - 01:09 PM

Yes indeed, and likewise if England loses their its next match. But we are having a bife for dinner this evening washed down with a glass of Argentine Malbec, followed by helado con dulce de leche!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Jack Campin
Date: 30 Jun 18 - 06:39 PM

Splendidly batty song by two Londoners getting off on watching Iranian footballers:

https://www.facebook.com/ediranfest/videos/1829036267153044/

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: keberoxu
Date: 30 Jun 18 - 06:57 PM

And then there is Uruguay 2, Portugal 1.

Is it Uruguay
which has the fellow who bites people?

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Jun 18 - 07:31 PM

He used to bite people. But he must be forgiven as he once played for Liverpool. I have a feeling that he'll be back.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 01 Jul 18 - 09:02 AM

hi

Who would have thought that the two possibly best players in the Tournament would be going home at this early stage. Nobody would have forecast it.

But off they go and leave France and Uruguay to fight another day.

I watched both games France were easily the better team even though the final score was close. France's midfield overran Argentina. Pogba had a great game with some thrusting runs a searching passes. But the whole team excelled . As Messi walked of perhaps a new star was born in Mbappi. At his age he will have the World at has feet.

The other game was much closer with both teams sparring with each other until Uruguay broke through with a great goal scored by Cavani made by yer man Suarez laying it on.( One way or another he always leaves a mark !!!0 Portugal had to go for it but Ronaldo was blotted out by a tough Urugayan defence. The enivitable happened and Uruguay broke away and Cavani drilled home a second goal.

I think this Uruguay team will take some beating. Their defence is the best in the World and with two World class strikers they will give a fright to all the rest.

cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 01 Jul 18 - 12:46 PM

Spain out too. Some great players who we will never see again, Iniesta in particular (unless you are in Japan). On the plus side, we will get another chance to hear the magnificent Soviet anthem being belted out.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 01 Jul 18 - 01:32 PM

Hi David

Yes yet another top Team bites the dust.

It was not a classic in the football sense but interesting for all that.

Spain had virtually all the possession but could not breach a well ordered defense. Try as they did , Russia somehow survived. In fact on the counter-attack they looked more likely to score than Spain.

Another VAR incident when seconds from full time when two Spanish players were dragged to the ground in the penalty box ; Harry Kane style.

The decision was turned down. and the rest will be history.

Later If Spain's Penalty play off was anything to go by they still would have lost.

Steve - if you watched did Spain's performance remind you of anything ??

Cheers

Mike
Tonight Croatia ??

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 03 Jul 18 - 06:15 AM

Hi

Lat night's games - Brazil 2 - Mexico 0.

Poor game as both sides struggled to find top form.

Neymer scored but shortly after was a disgusting attempt to get a player sent off. Clearly he was not touched but he went to ground and from his actions you would have thought he had been electrocuted.

Referee took no action !!!

Belgium 3 - Japan 2

For me this has been the best game in the Tournament. Both teams attacked each other with Japan going two ahead. Belgium brought on substitutes which changed the game. Japan couldn't cope with the height of Belgium players and Belgium scored three with the last goal scored in the final seconds.

This game was played in a sporting manner with very few cynical fouls nor playing for time etc.

Felt sorry for Japan.

Getting ready for tonight's England v Columbia game. Fingers crossed.

Cheer

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Senoufou
Date: 03 Jul 18 - 06:44 PM

Good grief, that was a nail biter wasn't it? We'd almost given up.

Spent about 5 minutes dancing round the sitting room shouting for joy, and we could hear everyone in the village doing the same!

Our huge England flags can stay up on our front wall after all!
Next stop Sweden!

Whoohoooooooooo!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Jul 18 - 06:58 PM

We didn't really deserve to win, though the cheating, play-acting and shenanigans of the Colombian team did tend to temper one's attitude. That wasn't all through the game, however, and Colombia were not without merit. Still, onward and upward!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Jul 18 - 01:47 AM

Glad that Columbia only found their form after 75 or so minutes of we would have been coming home. Very pleased that the penalty bogey man has been defeated. We are out on Saturday so I will probably on my see snatches.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 04 Jul 18 - 02:54 AM

I found the jingoism of the ITV commentators quite disgusting, and they had me hoping for a Columbia win. Still hoping that Russia go far, as they have the best anthem.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 04 Jul 18 - 03:07 AM

It's a great shame that some of those Latins behave like boobies. Once again English team discipline was superb.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: peteglasgow
Date: 04 Jul 18 - 03:52 AM

i always turn off the commentary for an england game - but i don;t think england were above a bit of play acting and seemed to get down to the opponent's level for a time. i'd like to be able to get behind england but there is just too much history of oafish, violent, racist misbehaviour among some of our fans that mixed with current ukip and brexit matters leads to something really unpleasant (and a bit difficult as i support scotland and live in the north of england - so a 'traitor' and you get 'i would always support a british team etc etc') i'm very happy with the radical english traditions but those voices go silent at times like this. and looking at the way the draw has opened up for england this time - i fear the worst

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: G-Force
Date: 04 Jul 18 - 04:41 AM

Amid all the euphoria, it's worth noting that England have now gone about 240 minutes without scoring from open play. In that time they've conceded three goals (one each to Panama, Belgium and a real sucker punch to Columbia). Much as I want England to do well (and self-loathers like Pete from Aberdeen make me sick), I can't see them getting much further on this form. Having said that, their next opponents Sweden were pretty frightful last time too.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 04 Jul 18 - 04:48 AM

Amid all the euphoria, it's worth noting that England have now gone about 240 minutes without scoring from open play
But they are winning (or keeping level until full-time) by scoring free-kicks or penalties.
Why are they getting free-kicks and penalties?
Because they are being illegally prevented from scoring from open play.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: G-Force
Date: 04 Jul 18 - 04:51 AM

Very true Nigel, and I must say last night's referee seemed pretty weak.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Jul 18 - 04:54 AM

Had it have been me suffering all the hassle before that penalty I would have sent half the Columbian team off. Good job I am not a referee I suppose :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 04 Jul 18 - 05:00 AM

Bring in the Rugby standard where only the captain speaks to the referee.

While they're at it, a deliberate foul preventing an obvious goal should be a card to the player committing the foul, and a goal given.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: peteglasgow
Date: 04 Jul 18 - 05:19 AM

'self-loathing' - sorry, do i know you? what are you on about?

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 04 Jul 18 - 06:47 AM

"Self loathing" is a term used by small minded people who cannot get over the fact that its them we loathe, not ourselves.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 04 Jul 18 - 08:57 AM

Hi

England richly deserved to win in my opinion. They tried to open but the but the constant foul play prevented this. Give England the credit for not complaining at some ludicrous decisions from the American Ref.

VAR is by no means perfect. How one of the Columbia team was not sent off for an obvious head butt I just don't know..

I think Nigel has hit on the main problem. There should be rules about mobbing the Ref every time decisions to use Var and other decision times. Only captains should be allowed to approach the Ref as he rightly says happens in Rugby. If they ignore the ref then a Red card should be issued. The soon learn.

The sad part of this is that Columbia showed that they can play football, but they chose to use cynical tactics in the first half.

they got their comeuppance. Their manager should have intervened and got them to play properly. But what do you expect from a manager who tried to elbow Stirling in the face as they came off for half-time.
I feel sorry for their wonderful supporters. The team were not fair to them.
Ok we have to prepare to beat Sweden. Won't be easy they are a difficult team to beat.

cheers Mike


WQe thought the game over until that last minute goal.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: G-Force
Date: 04 Jul 18 - 09:15 AM

'self-loathing' - sorry, do i know you? what are you on about?

Sorry, you're quite right, that was a stupid over-reaction.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Jul 18 - 11:26 AM

Channel surfing and landed on the extra time of last night's match...
Too knackered to be bothered moving, so wife decided we'd watch it;
she's the sports fan...

She's Welsh, so immediately became a Columbia supporter...

That's the most football I've sat through for about 30 years,
it is so boring and dainty compared to rugby.
I didn't find any interest until the last 15 minutes,
when players started making mistakes and fouling out of exhaustion and desperation..
Now that was real human drama.

I actually enjoyed the tension of the penalty shoot out.. that was the best bit..

The wife gets carried away with over excitement and shouts at the telly,
whatever sport she's watching...

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Jul 18 - 01:43 PM

"We are out on Saturday so I will probably only see snatches."

Nudist camp or red light district, Dave? Heheh!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Jul 18 - 01:59 PM

The point about our lack of goals from open play is well made. Sweden have a solid defence and are way too canny to be seen wrestling Harry to the floor in the penalty area. I think we can't rely on being awarded penalties. Another thing: we crumbled psychologically after their last-ditch goal and nearly blew it in extra time. That's not good enough at this level. Finally, about half an inch thickness of crossbar in the penalty shootout made the difference between Gareth Southgate being today's national heroic all-round good egg and a national disaster. If I were a yank I'd be saying "go figure."

(The true hero was Jordan Pickford who beautifully saved a penalty in the shootout and who made the save of the year near the end of the 90.)

And for crissake, Gareth, PLEASE drop Alli and Sterling...

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 04 Jul 18 - 02:36 PM

hi Steve

hi Steve

Both teams had some luck in the game. With a good Referee Colombia would have lost at least two players for deliberate foul play in the first half hour.

Granted in the second half England was under some pressure but it was only until the very last second of injury time did Colombia score.

AS for the penalty shootout England looked calm except for Henderson who had had a poor game earlier on.

I don't believe that hitting the bar from a penalty is unlucky if you can't get the ball in the net is bad shot selection.

I agree that the goalkeeper made a fantastic save. Rashford took his penalty calmly without any sign of nerves as did Dier. So we were through.

I agree about Sweden being difficult but I just have a feeling that we will come through. No red lights or nudists for you and Dave....lol

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 04 Jul 18 - 10:46 PM

Question: Can one side fully deserve to loose (on the basis of, apparently, some awful tactics by Columbia that every report I've read confirms) and the other side not fully deserve to win (on the basis that in the only fragment of the game I saw - 10 minutes to full time whistle and early extra time, Columbia, to me, looked the better side)

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Jul 18 - 12:27 AM

yes you only saw a but of the game for most of the first 90 minutes england were better

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Jul 18 - 03:54 AM

Very good, Steve :-)

I suppose I should revise my statement and say I'll only see bits... err... see odds and ends... err... Oh, it's so hard...

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: keberoxu
Date: 05 Jul 18 - 09:58 AM

Wow, if England gets to the finals,
emotion is going to run really high.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Jul 18 - 01:39 PM

Some believe that England is too traditional to win the World Cup.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 05 Jul 18 - 02:12 PM

Too traditional in what way?

That we still love our red telephone boxes and red post boxes, that the red London buses are a tourists attraction, that Stonehedge, Edinburgh Castle and Whitby Abbey are still standing?

Sorry Donuel, few of you posts make any sense and this one makes none at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 05 Jul 18 - 02:24 PM

Donuel's post makes perfect sense to me, and red telephone boxes are only left in place now for vandals to smash. England in a way has abandoned its tradition and this is the problem. Englands football tradition is that of Tom Finney, Stanley Mathews, Bobby Charlton and Bobby Moore. Someone, can't remember who now, described Lionel Messi as Tom Finney reborn. Diego Godin reminds me a lot of Bobby Moore. We used to have players of that quality, and now we don't.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 05 Jul 18 - 02:25 PM

Thousands of years from now,
our few remaining descendants on a far away colony planet
will be singing mythic songs about the time England won the world cup...

Though by then it might have got a bit folk traditioned and mashed up into involving Camelot,
and Sir Bobby Moore and the holy players of the roundish Wembley stadium...

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: keberoxu
Date: 05 Jul 18 - 03:03 PM

Well, the English, bless the lot of youse,
are going to have an uphill battle regardless.

David Carter makes a fair point:
there are some hungry ambitious young fellows
on those opposing teams,
and some of them get the job done, and more.

This could be a really thrilling conclusion,
whoever defeats whom.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 05 Jul 18 - 03:14 PM

Normally I'm not a jingoist nationalist xenophobe,
and although I think football is cack since the 1970s...
There are far too many mercenary for hire foreign players in clubs,
at the expense of nurturing top division British talent...

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 05 Jul 18 - 03:29 PM

No, pfr, I don't think thats the case. The problems start much, much earlier, with school and age group football. This is dominated by the biggest and strongest. I remember when Cesc Fabregas came to Arsenal at 16, fabulous player then, and I thought then that if he was English he would have been kicked out of the game years before. The top clubs hire top foreign players because they have to.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: G-Force
Date: 06 Jul 18 - 04:59 AM

Looking at the draw, the four best teams are playing each other today, so two more will be knocked out. The four comparative 'minnows' (sorry England, Sweden, Croatia, Russia) play tomorrow. So England have a good chance of reaching the semis, but that's about it I reckon.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Jul 18 - 05:10 AM

Pointed out on the radio this morning

All 4 quarter finals have one country with 6 letters and one with 7 letters

They are being played on the 6th and 7th

Losers and winners also have 6 and 7 letters respectively

Any more? :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Jul 18 - 05:38 AM

Oh yeh, 6 + 7 = 13. The number of letters in

It's coming home

:-D

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jul 18 - 06:35 AM

I wish you luck Dave but Raggytash personally makes that hard.
After the Belgium win over Japan I daresay anything could happen and Great Britain will have a turn around by actually winning penalty kicks. To get ahead of things I am hoping for a stunning showdown of England's eventual win over Russia.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Jul 18 - 06:41 AM

Don't mix up GB and England when referring to football, Donuel! You will incur the wrath of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland supporters :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 06 Jul 18 - 07:43 AM

I suspect that the eventual winners will be playing today, although it would be great to see Russia go all the way, just so we get more of their magnificent anthem. A reminder of more hopeful times.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jul 18 - 09:19 AM

USSR's anthem really is magnificent but I don't know who wrote it.
I thought Russia had a new ho hum anthem from what I heard at the olympics. I will find out at once.

I also don't know the insults that accidentally arise from insensitive ignorant remarks regarding old scores that are still raw. There are too many.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jul 18 - 09:24 AM

Holy crap the answer to the Russia anthem question is complicated beyond belief.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 06 Jul 18 - 01:49 PM

Hi David

" I suspect that the eventual winners will be playing today "

If so it must be France.

France 2 - Uruguay 0. This was an intriguing game, full of action and some great attacking from both sides.

As has happened in a number games in this competition the Latin countries tried to bully their way through using cynical and often foul tactics, Once again the referee could not control the problem.

When France scored their first goal Uruguay started to play some good football and looked dangerous, But a crazy moment by the Uruguayan goalkeeper gifted a goal to France. This broke the back of Uruguay and France ran out easy winners.

So another "favourite bit the dust.

Any team can win this and England have a great chance to show what they can do.

Let's see what happens tonight......Dismissal of Brazil ?? could happen ???

Cheers Mike

mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Jul 18 - 01:54 PM

My mrs is looking forward to supporting Sweden tomorrow.....

She said so with a devilish smile and an evil glint in her eyes...

I suppose I could remind her that Wales didn't even qualify, but I can't be arsed it's too hot...

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 06 Jul 18 - 03:34 PM

Psst ..... Donuel ......... Great Britain don't have a team, at least not in these matches. They have had a team in the Olympics though.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 06 Jul 18 - 04:04 PM

France - Belgium. Could go either way, and I would expect the winner to go on to lift the trophy. Though Russia may still have a say. And Croatia as long as they play like they did against Argentina, not like they did against Denmark. Can't see either Sweden or England making an impression in the semi.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 07 Jul 18 - 06:59 AM

Hi

Whooops there goes another "favourite.

Belgium 2 - Brazil 1.

Great game both teams hammered at each other. The ref controlled the game strictly which kept much of the foul tactics of the earlier games. Good to see. Brazil has two late for penalties refused. One looked like it was a penalty to me. But hey ho out you go.

I wonder how many people would have thought England would outlast teams like Germany, Spain, Portugal Argentina etc. ??

Getty ready for this afternoon's game. Will be close.....my heart says England my head says Sweden.

Cheers Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 Jul 18 - 12:07 PM

A superb performance by England!!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Jul 18 - 01:21 PM

Brilliant. Men of the match Raheem, Jordan P. and that amazing Ramsbottom man Kieran Trippier. But what an amazing, integrated TEAM performance!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 07 Jul 18 - 02:55 PM

Quality match now between Russia and Croatia, either of these teams would be a worthy finalist. No matter what Bilic says.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 07 Jul 18 - 04:37 PM

Penalties again. Superb match, neither side deserves to lose.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 07 Jul 18 - 04:54 PM

Once again being the cynic I am, England have just got another 144 million fans!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Jul 18 - 04:58 PM

I thought England beating the Swedes was a turnip for the books but that Russia Croatia match had more twists and turns than some posters on here :-)

Seriously though. Only saw the highlights of England's win. The Croatian win was a joy to watch for me. None of the Latin American amdram. No cynical fouls. No mobbing the referee. Plus, I reckon we will have the Russian crowd behind us on Wednesday.

Well done Gareth and the lads.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Jul 18 - 06:40 PM

Not having a stadium full of Russian fans on Wednesday will help. I don't think we have much to fear from Croatia on Wednesday, though the brilliant Modric will need close marking!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Rusty Dobro
Date: 08 Jul 18 - 03:41 AM

Although the England team may be defying tradition, the rioting fans in Benidorm last night showed that the old ways are still with us....

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 08 Jul 18 - 04:29 AM

Hi

England were easily the best they have been in the competition.

team played their part. They made Sweden look very ordinary.

We now have to think about Croatia. Should be OK but remember the Wally
with the Brolly ? " Many a slip twix cup and lip " (sic)

I rather play Croatia than either France or Belgium.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: keberoxu
Date: 08 Jul 18 - 04:47 PM

"a turnip for the books"
you gotta love that spell-checker

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 09 Jul 18 - 04:08 AM

Now that Dawn Sturgess has died, the England team need to do the decent thing and walk away from the tournament.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Senoufou
Date: 09 Jul 18 - 04:23 AM

This whole Novichok business is mysterious though SPB. Some are saying the stuff came from Porton Down. Without any proof (or the government/MI6 revealing the truth) one can't accuse the Russians.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 09 Jul 18 - 05:28 AM

My theory is that a lot of things couldn't be accounted for after the break-up of the Soviet Union, who knows what has fallen into individual hands, and how their alliances fit within the oligarchy system. I would agree to a compromise of the England players wearing black armbands and the name Sturgess on all the team shirts.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Jul 18 - 08:43 AM

sport brings people & nations together - keep politics out of it as much as sensible & possible...

In the true old fashioned traditional spirit of football,
the only kneejerk reactions required are to the groins of opposing team players
while the ref's not looking...

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 09 Jul 18 - 03:04 PM

Hi Steve

Yes great performance by England. Of course you missed the fact that both goals were from brilliant crosses by You and Lingard ( Man United )!!

Remember your remark made on July 4th ?

" "" And for crissake, Gareth, PLEASE drop Alli and Sterling.."""

Changed your mind eh. lol. Stirling has a wonderful yard of pace that frightens the opposition but he seems incapable of scoring from chances that come his way.

Waiting patiently for next game against Croatia'

cheers Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 09 Jul 18 - 03:06 PM

PS that should have said YOUNG

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Jul 18 - 03:35 PM

Damn! And I thought Steve had been roped in :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jul 18 - 06:56 PM

I've definitely changed my mind about Sterling and am happy to admit it. He is capable of terrorising defences, but you can be sure that the Croatian backroom boys have worked on nullifying him. A good few Premier League clubs have shown how easily it can be done. I've changed my mind about Maguire too. He's a brilliant team man. Alli scored a goal that was beautifully laid on for him but he's been pretty unimpressive overall so far. Croatia will be a damn sight more wily than Sweden.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 10 Jul 18 - 09:37 AM

Hi Steve

Your view of Sterling is the same as mine. I just hope he finds his shooting boots in front of goal; he had a spell this year with Man City when he was a bit wayward in front of goal, but later the goals came.

I agree that Croatia will target him but I hope they do it legally. .This could help us because they will also be busy with Harry ( the
Kane version).

Harry Mcguire will do some targeting of Croatia, he's not pretty but bloody effective. Should be fun.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: olddude
Date: 10 Jul 18 - 01:28 PM

England has it I just know and feel it

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 10 Jul 18 - 04:49 PM

I've had more fun watching paint dry than I did watching tonights match.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 10 Jul 18 - 04:53 PM

What were you watching Raggy? That was an excellent match, great skill (Mbappe, Hazard), fantastic defending (Varane), superb saves from both goalkeepers. That was football as it should be played and it was a pity it wasn't the final.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 10 Jul 18 - 04:56 PM

In my defence I was in a bar that was full of French supporters, inconsiderate, obnoxious, noisy bastards to a man.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 10 Jul 18 - 05:03 PM

All football supporters in bars morph into that.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 10 Jul 18 - 05:10 PM

Thats probably why I prefer Rubgy Union, Cricket, Hurling or Gaelic Football.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jul 18 - 06:49 PM

France got the lead then parked five buses. It was elegant defending, but the bus station was heaving.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Mrrzy
Date: 10 Jul 18 - 06:55 PM

Allez les bleus ! Vive les Belges aussi ! [that is a joke, btw.]

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jul 18 - 07:05 PM

Oi, the aussies got knocked out weeks ago...

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 11 Jul 18 - 08:34 AM

hi

I agree with David great game to watch both sides attacking and two well ordered and organized defenses kept the score down.

I don't agree that France "parked the Bus. They certainly pulled back Pogba who had an excellent first half. S'pose he is the size of a small bus. lol Didn't care who won but I suppose that Belgium going out suit many....we have had enough of Brussels lately.!!!!

In tonight's game I take England in a close game.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Jul 18 - 11:38 AM

Well we'd better deport all those Belgians that populate the Premier League, then! I mean, Courtois, Mignolet, Kompany, Vertongen, De Bruyne, Fellaini, Lukaku, Hazard, Benteke, Mirallas, Origi, Dembele... Useless bunch of tossers the lot of 'em, they come over here, steal our women, eat our babies, play sublime football, shame us for our lack of investment in young native talent...Let's take back control! Send the buggers home! Let's make the Premier League a repository for fourth-rate dobbins!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Jul 18 - 02:15 PM

Let's make the Premier League a repository for fourth-rate dobbins!" hardly, the present english team is made up of a considerable number of premier league players and at this moment they are one goal ahead

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 11 Jul 18 - 04:42 PM

France - Croatia then. Hope it will be a good game. You would have to favour France, but Croatia are decent and were the better team tonight.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: olddude
Date: 11 Jul 18 - 04:44 PM

Dang that was a lame kick at the end I thought they would tie it but not to be

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: G-Force
Date: 11 Jul 18 - 05:09 PM

2 hours of football and no England goal from open play. What we need is a couple of proper playmakers like Kevin de Bruyne who can really create chances rather than just kicking forward into empty space, and some forwards who can kick into the goal rather than 10 yards over it. Plus a defence that stays awake.

Then maybe we can dream of winning something.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Jul 18 - 06:12 PM

Spot on, G. You could have added that Kane has been a lame duck. Where the hell was he tonight? All very well going for the Golden Boot when most of your goals come from penalty kicks, you're the captain and as such get to decide who takes the penalties... you... He's useless. Hendo should be captain, we need a decent striker and one or two attacking midfielders with attitood. We seem to fall in love as a nation with donkeys such as Owen, Rooney and Kane, and, somehow, we can't drop them for about eight years each. They're the kiss of death for our national team. Which, by the way, Dick, is not the same thing as the Premier League...

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Jul 18 - 08:23 PM

Never mind.. the July Grand Sumo Wresting Tournament started a couple of days ago...

Daily highlights on NHK WORLD [there's an app if you can't find it on digital TV],

much more interesting and entertaining...

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 12 Jul 18 - 03:38 AM

G-Force:
You made a similar comment after the Colombia game:

Amid all the euphoria, it's worth noting that England have now gone about 240 minutes without scoring from open play

My response now is similar to then:

But they are scoring from free-kicks or penalties.
Why are they getting free-kicks and penalties?
Because they are being illegally prevented from scoring from open play.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Jul 18 - 04:49 AM

Rugby man, are you, Nigel?

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 12 Jul 18 - 04:53 AM

Yes, I'm a rugby man, but the comment made applies equally to G_Force's question about the lack of a score from open play in soccer.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Jul 18 - 05:08 AM

England had plenty of chances to score from open play last night. That "world class striker" of ours should have netted two, if not three, and Lingard missed a golden opportunity. We are becoming a good team but we lack the guile and experience of the Modrics and Rakitics and Perisics of this world. Even the Lovrens. The guts fell out of the team after their equaliser, even before it. Southgate has more work to do on our team becoming more wily and psychologically strong when we go behind. Tough, physical and even cynical opposition is the name of the game these days. No use blaming that for our lack of goal-scoring. Wrong target, Nigel, and pointed to with a touch of old-style sour grapes whingeing. Face it. We simply fell short.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 12 Jul 18 - 05:30 AM

No, Just pointing out that the lack of goals from 'open play' is not always the fault of the players, but can be compensated for by the set pieces which result from opponents preventing open play.
As to last night's match, I haven't seen it. My time was much better spent watching the excellent War Horse with Bob Fox as the 'songman'

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 12 Jul 18 - 05:45 AM

The Croatian players were technically better, as will the Belgians be on Sunday, and as would the French be if England had played them. The problem in my view is the structure of the game at a young age, where in the UK (lets face it its even worse in Scotland) physical strength and size are appreciated more than skill. Unless things change from ages of around 10, England will never produce another Stanley Matthews or Tom Finney, and Scotland will never produce another Jim Baxter or Jimmy Johnstone.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Jul 18 - 06:02 AM

And the sheer wealth of the Premier League militates against our investing in native young talent. Just look at how many of those Belgians, for example, have been hoovered up by our top teams... Another factor in our lack of success is the propensity of the managers of Premier League clubs for withdrawing their key players from international duty at the slightest drop of a hat. Any little bruise or mythical muscle strain would suffice. Ferguson was a prime culprit. Hopefully, a part of Southgate's legacy will be to restore such pride in playing for England that such dishonest ploys become anathema.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 12 Jul 18 - 09:15 AM

Hi

We lost because we were not good enough.....simple as that.

We were beaten by a team that was both physically and mentally superior men against boys.

We had a great start and as has been commented on below we failed to score when we had a bundle of chances all missed. Even the hard working Harry Maguire missed a good chance.

We had a lot of better players than Croatia but we did not use them correctly.

Steve is right when he says that we fold if the opposition fold.

I also believe we were over confident and underestimated the Croatia team.

There is hopes of improvement because we were a very young side and there is time for development.

We will have to wait and see.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 12 Jul 18 - 02:49 PM

Hi
""
" Steve is right when he says that we fold if the opposition fold."

The last word should be score.

Cheers

mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: michaelr
Date: 13 Jul 18 - 01:09 AM

1. I hope Croatia takes it.

2. No one cares about the third-place match.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Jul 18 - 05:25 AM

Actually, the third-place match has has the potential to be an attractive watch. I'd like to see both coaches pick strong teams, not simply use it as a quasi-friendly making experimental use of non-playing squad members in order to be nice to them. Southgate made the severe error of doing that in the group stage dead rubber and we learned nothing from that game.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Jul 18 - 05:55 AM

Croatia has half the population of London but beats our national team.
I read that only a third of our Premier League players are British. I am sure that is not the situation in Croatia.
Are we failing to train enough Brit. (eligable to play for England) youth?

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Senoufou
Date: 13 Jul 18 - 07:59 AM

We'll be backing Croatia in the Final.

I thought they played very creatively and with verve against us, and deserved to win. After that first goal, our team seemed to go a bit stodgy and leaden
.
Our flags have been taken down by a very grumpy husband, and he's wearing his Liverpool top this morning. (He has all the Premier League tops, and wears them indiscriminately). The England tracksuit has been washed and relegated to his bottom drawer. That's the end of that!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 13 Jul 18 - 11:26 AM

hi Sen

IVERPOOL ????? Burn it....lol

You are right we caved in after we had scored and missed some sitters.

Steve I have heard that Southgate is not playing his top team.......don't know about Belgium.

regards Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Jul 18 - 12:16 PM

What an achievement for the nation to celebrate - when was the last time the England team came 4th in the world cup...???

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Jul 18 - 12:22 PM

We could still be third.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: keberoxu
Date: 14 Jul 18 - 12:17 PM

And here come the final World Cup games.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Jul 18 - 12:43 PM

Keith - yes, we could still be third - 4 years from now...

..and by 2022, genetic scientists might also have successfully grown fully functioning wings on pigs...

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Jul 18 - 01:24 PM

Just 4th then, but why?
Why are so many of our best club players playing for other national teams against us? Is that true of other countries to the same extent?

The Belgian Captain and 12 of his 26 players play for English clubs.
The population of Belgium is less than 12m!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Jul 18 - 01:35 PM

Keith - look back to my post

"From: punkfolkrocker - PM
Date: 05 Jul 18 - 03:14 PM "


I was 7 years old, and still had a schoolboy's excitement in the game,
when we were all swept up enjoying the euphoria of winning the world cup...

Now I can't even remember watching it on the telly.....

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: gillymor
Date: 14 Jul 18 - 01:38 PM

So England will be 3rd or 4th, sounds like a pretty good outcome to me.

It seems a bit unfair that France gets an extra day's rest, especially considering all the extra minutes played by Croatia. Perhaps they should have held both semis on the same day.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 14 Jul 18 - 04:42 PM

The question Keith, is why are so few English players playing for top club sides elsewhere in Europe.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: keberoxu
Date: 14 Jul 18 - 08:41 PM

nobody wants to talk about that third-place game ...

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 03:18 AM

Belgium played well. Particularly in the first half, but their counterattacks in the second half were superbly timed. Pickford made a great save to deny what would have been the best goal of the tournament. Only disappointment really was Lukaku, who, having been superb against Brazil has had two poor games.

Apart from Pickford, who has been England's best player of the tournament by a mile, the only England player worthy of mention was Loftus-Cheek. Kane has been dire since the Panama game.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 08:13 AM

The question Keith, is why are so few English players playing for top club sides elsewhere in Europe.

That is the same question. Why are so few English kids getting to that standard where foreign or even English clubs want them?

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 10:39 AM

I have given my answer to this above, in my view its because of coaching methods in the junior game (ages 8 to about 14), where in England a premium is placed on size and strength, rather than on skill.

There is another issue to, we have seen in the England team for the world cup a number of players who could hold their own in La Liga or Serie A. But they don't go. Why? Since Beckham and Owen I can't think of an English player who is still a force at international level signing for an overseas club. Even those two were at the fag end of their careers. So there is also a lack of ambition, or alternatively a parochialism, amongst young British footballers.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 11:14 AM

big fish small pond syndrome...???

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: olddude
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 11:34 AM

Great game so far wow I hope cro takes it

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: olddude
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 12:23 PM

Ugh Croatia goalie leaks like a broken sink

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 02:13 PM

Appallingly soft penalty at the end of the first half, but to be fair the French third and fourth goals were superbly taken. Excellent display from both teams.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: keberoxu
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 02:23 PM

And in four years' time,
there will be a new Mudcat BS thread on the next World Cup.

In my part of the country,
the work-migration patterns have brought an entire generation,
maybe better, of Brazilians.
They go absolutely nuts every four years.
You have to resign yourself, when you visit restaurants where they work, to the screaming, hollering, and jumping around
if there is a World Cup match underway while you wait for the meal you ordered.
If it's the sort of establishment that has a television screen or four,
then you have that distraction as well.
Not to speak of bars or pubs.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 02:46 PM

England - "awww.. let's have a look.. go on.. we're next door neighbours.. let's have a look and a quick hold of the cup..."

France - "Non !!!.. Va te faire foutre brexit bâtards !!!!!.."

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: robomatic
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 03:16 PM

Just watched the final game which was broadcast locally, free, on the FOX network station. Didn't understand it 100%, particularly why that French player was running the ball towards his own goal line just before the Croations made their second goal. Was he trying to get it to his goalie to kick it?

Looked to me like the Croations had wonderful teamwork, they seemed to kick the ball where they needed it to go and find a team-mate. The French had power and great capacity to get the ball from their opponents but too often it went where they weren't.

Might be the first game of soccer I've seen through to the end.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 03:45 PM

Credit to both teams for providing a spectacle worthy of a World Cup final. Tell you what, though: the English team couldn't hold a candle to either of those two teams. We have a long way to go, and we haven't even got a decent striker!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: olddude
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 08:19 PM

Agree with you steve they need work if they want to win it all. The competition this year was superb by all the teams. France deserve it as those goals were amazing

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 04:37 AM

David,
So there is also a lack of ambition, or alternatively a parochialism, amongst young British footballers.

Is it true that English players are turning down offers from abroad, or are they just not good enough to be wanted?

PFR,
big fish small pond syndrome...???

Hardly. The English league id dominated by foreign players. Two thirds! The English players are the small fish in this pond.

I suspect that David is right about the English clubs not identifying skilled young players.They are being failed by the system and England is doomed to perpetual humiliation in internationals because of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 08:10 AM

Keith - you missed the point...

The indigenous elite English players who are prominent in the premier league
are fairly important here.
In Europe they would be run of the mill at best...

My mrs would remind you that even tiny Wales has produced a better world class player, Gareth Bale...

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 08:19 AM

Yes PFR, but why are England's elite only run of the mill at best in Europe?
It can only be that boys with elite potential are being identified in other countries but not ours, otherwise why are there so many from Belgium (pop 12m) and so few from England (pop 55m).

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 09:05 AM

Keith - we are actually in agreement this time,
I gave you a link to my much earlier post in this thread expressing my opinion...

I'm by no means a nationalist, but English premier football is too dominated by foreign money...

Personally, I wouldn't care if football disappeared forever along with all religions...

But there's still a slight remnant of that schoolboy in me
who grew up in a golden age culture of 1960s English 1st Division football...

Before Corporate Global profiteering / Sky Sports ruined the game...

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 09:23 AM

I remember when Burnley won the First Division in 1960 with a team that cost £9000. The runners-up, Wolves, cost half a million. Only two of the Burnley first team cost any money, the great Jimmy Mac, the finest inside-right ever to grace a football pitch, accounting for £7000 of the dough, and nine of the team had been recruited by what was then the finest scouting system in the country. Mind you, the players were treated like minions and were forced to have formal dinner with Bob Lord after each match... Most players would have to get other jobs, such as running sports shops, after they retired, which could happen unexpectedly early due to injury or just being dropped, and a good few ex-household names were soon on their uppers.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 09:36 AM

Hazy memories, but when I was little my dad told me some footballers were earning as much as pop stars - a hundred quid a week...!!!!

[it might even have been 50 quid.. which would still have impressed my old dad on his factory machinist wage...]

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 05:56 PM

I don't know whether they are Keith. But you don't hear of English, or indeed Scottish players agitating for a move to a top European club. A Welsh one did, and has done rather well. If, to name but one, Harry Kane is as good as he tells everybody that he is, why is he not pushing for a move to a top Spanish, French or Italian club?

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 04:32 AM

why is he not pushing for a move to a top Spanish, French or Italian club?

Because they do not think he is good enough so do not put a price on him.

you don't hear of English, or indeed Scottish players agitating for a move to a top European club.

You don't hear of offers being rejected.
English clubs are failing to train world class players and buy them off the shelf instead.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 04:42 AM

I've gleaned that the expression "world-class player" has become flavour of the month during the World Cup. Funny that. As I've watched the matches I've seen that the most successful teams have actually played as teams and that their alleged world-class players have set their egos aside. I've heard it said several times that England have just the one world-class player. Well he got the Golden Boot (by dint of three penalties, two tap-ins and one deflection that he knew nothing about), but the way he played, especially in the knock-outs, revealed him to be a world-class let-down. I think we should give him the golden handshake.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 06:12 AM

Our best English player is not good enough, so we should buy all our players in and not train any English kids at all.
Even just a third of English club players being English is too many.
How did this come about?

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 07:48 AM

Murdoch and the Premier League...

Working class traditional sports culture became vastly over priced global corporate consumer product...

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 02:53 PM

hi

" If Kane is as good as he tells everybody that he is, why is he not pushing for a move to a top Spanish, French or Italian club? "

A number of foreign clubs have registered interest in Harry.

This was before the World Cup started. I guess after a very ordinary performance the clubs may move on.

One thing you must consider is that English players earn very high wages compared with most Foreign leagues. They can get better players cheaper. They also prefer to sell players that wish to leave to bring in huge transfer fees.

Cheers   Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 04:57 PM

Steve, I hope you are getting all your information from mainstream football pundits who's views are accepted by their peers and have their books for sale in high street book stores.

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 05:30 PM

Mike, I think you make a very good point about the wages. Wages in the EPL are obscene. And English players, and indeed others such as Belgian players, either see these wages as an indicator of the quality of the league (which they are not), or else are just plain greedy. I guess Bale could have earned more if he had gone to Man City. But he wanted to play, train and compete with the best. Kane I would think is a level down, and would struggle to get game time at Real Madrid, Barcelona, Juventus or PSG. The one England player who could definitely command a transfer to a top league is Pickford.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 18 Jul 18 - 06:38 AM

hi

With all this talk of foreign players over here we should remember that Many British players played abroad. -: Kevin Keegan Rodney Marsh Laurie Cunningham, David Platt Trevor francis Graham Souness John Barnes Paul Ince Ray Wilkins Ian Rush ( was returned back to Liverpool Post haste ) Glenn Hoddle Chris Waddle Gary Linacre David Beckham Johnathon Woodgate Mark Hughes Les Ferdinand and we mustn't forget Gazza.

This lot is not the only ones by but probably the best known ones.

Interesting isn't that today while there are some British players move abroad but not many except that those who go at the end of their career to USA or China.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 18 Jul 18 - 07:16 AM

And going back a bit further John Charles and Denis Law.

John Aldridge and the late Dalian Atkinson went to Real Sociedad. I remember when I lived in Spain watching on TV the two of them absolutely destroy one of the top teams, either Barcelona or one of the Madrid teams.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Jul 18 - 07:52 AM

But if most of them played in the 1st division before 1992,
then that supports the proposition that Sky Sports and the Premier League are the major factors
in the effing up of the development of young English talent...

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 18 Jul 18 - 09:41 AM

Hi

How did I miss John Charles a giant in every way. And Denis law? ( as a Man United fan ). Denis lived very close to us when he played for United.

I think looking at the names that in those days Italy was the most favourite with The Traveling People".
cheers

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Jul 18 - 11:41 AM

Mike, why are only a third of English league players English, and why are half the Belgium squad English club players.

we should remember that Many British players played abroad

Not many compared to the reverse flow.
It may not be a wholly one way traffic, but almost.

English players earn very high wages compared with most Foreign leagues.

That applies to bought in players too, plus the transfer fee.
Do other European leagues pay significantly less?

Why do only English clubs seek to profit from selling players?
Why does England produce so few elite players from its large population?
Why do English clubs prefer to buy in players than train English kids?

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Jul 18 - 12:00 PM

I see that English league players are paid more as you said Mike.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Jul 18 - 12:02 PM

Because England has become crapper at football since 1992,
for reasons already pointed out to you more than once in this thread...

Profiteering global capitalism has taken over and destroyed traditional regional English community football culture,
that once thrived on nurturing young local loyal players...

Solution - follow rugby [until it also goes completely the way of bland corporate football]
and sumo wrestling instead...

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Jul 18 - 01:22 PM

... oh.. and as this is folk trad mudcat... Bog snorkelling and Ferret-legging...

Though unfortunately they don't seem to get much TV coverage......

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 18 Jul 18 - 02:09 PM

Keith, I don't think that is true. At the time of John Charles and Denis Law, and even at the time of David Platt and others, I don't think there were many foreign players in the British leagues. Chinaglia doesn't count, he grew up in Wales. Can you think of any from the 60s and early 70s.

Money is the key. Charles and Law were paid more in Italy than they would have been in England, Wales or Scotland. Now its the other way round.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 18 Jul 18 - 02:15 PM

English clubs cannot train English kids to the level that they can train foreign kids. By the time they get to the clubs, the damage has been done.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 18 Jul 18 - 02:54 PM

Hi Keith

There is no doubt that English clubs higher wages than almost all foreign clubs.

I was surprised to see only this week that Barcelona do not pay top money.



F