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BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)

David Carter (UK) 16 Jul 18 - 05:56 PM
punkfolkrocker 16 Jul 18 - 09:36 AM
Steve Shaw 16 Jul 18 - 09:23 AM
punkfolkrocker 16 Jul 18 - 09:05 AM
Keith A of Hertford 16 Jul 18 - 08:19 AM
punkfolkrocker 16 Jul 18 - 08:10 AM
Keith A of Hertford 16 Jul 18 - 04:37 AM
olddude 15 Jul 18 - 08:19 PM
Steve Shaw 15 Jul 18 - 03:45 PM
robomatic 15 Jul 18 - 03:16 PM
punkfolkrocker 15 Jul 18 - 02:46 PM
keberoxu 15 Jul 18 - 02:23 PM
David Carter (UK) 15 Jul 18 - 02:13 PM
olddude 15 Jul 18 - 12:23 PM
olddude 15 Jul 18 - 11:34 AM
punkfolkrocker 15 Jul 18 - 11:14 AM
David Carter (UK) 15 Jul 18 - 10:39 AM
Keith A of Hertford 15 Jul 18 - 08:13 AM
David Carter (UK) 15 Jul 18 - 03:18 AM
keberoxu 14 Jul 18 - 08:41 PM
David Carter (UK) 14 Jul 18 - 04:42 PM
gillymor 14 Jul 18 - 01:38 PM
punkfolkrocker 14 Jul 18 - 01:35 PM
Keith A of Hertford 14 Jul 18 - 01:24 PM
punkfolkrocker 14 Jul 18 - 12:43 PM
keberoxu 14 Jul 18 - 12:17 PM
Keith A of Hertford 13 Jul 18 - 12:22 PM
punkfolkrocker 13 Jul 18 - 12:16 PM
MikeL2 13 Jul 18 - 11:26 AM
Senoufou 13 Jul 18 - 07:59 AM
Keith A of Hertford 13 Jul 18 - 05:55 AM
Steve Shaw 13 Jul 18 - 05:25 AM
michaelr 13 Jul 18 - 01:09 AM
MikeL2 12 Jul 18 - 02:49 PM
MikeL2 12 Jul 18 - 09:15 AM
Steve Shaw 12 Jul 18 - 06:02 AM
David Carter (UK) 12 Jul 18 - 05:45 AM
Nigel Parsons 12 Jul 18 - 05:30 AM
Steve Shaw 12 Jul 18 - 05:08 AM
Nigel Parsons 12 Jul 18 - 04:53 AM
Steve Shaw 12 Jul 18 - 04:49 AM
Nigel Parsons 12 Jul 18 - 03:38 AM
punkfolkrocker 11 Jul 18 - 08:23 PM
Steve Shaw 11 Jul 18 - 06:12 PM
G-Force 11 Jul 18 - 05:09 PM
olddude 11 Jul 18 - 04:44 PM
David Carter (UK) 11 Jul 18 - 04:42 PM
The Sandman 11 Jul 18 - 02:15 PM
Steve Shaw 11 Jul 18 - 11:38 AM
MikeL2 11 Jul 18 - 08:34 AM

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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 05:56 PM

I don't know whether they are Keith. But you don't hear of English, or indeed Scottish players agitating for a move to a top European club. A Welsh one did, and has done rather well. If, to name but one, Harry Kane is as good as he tells everybody that he is, why is he not pushing for a move to a top Spanish, French or Italian club?


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 09:36 AM

Hazy memories, but when I was little my dad told me some footballers were earning as much as pop stars - a hundred quid a week...!!!!

[it might even have been 50 quid.. which would still have impressed my old dad on his factory machinist wage...]


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 09:23 AM

I remember when Burnley won the First Division in 1960 with a team that cost £9000. The runners-up, Wolves, cost half a million. Only two of the Burnley first team cost any money, the great Jimmy Mac, the finest inside-right ever to grace a football pitch, accounting for £7000 of the dough, and nine of the team had been recruited by what was then the finest scouting system in the country. Mind you, the players were treated like minions and were forced to have formal dinner with Bob Lord after each match... Most players would have to get other jobs, such as running sports shops, after they retired, which could happen unexpectedly early due to injury or just being dropped, and a good few ex-household names were soon on their uppers.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 09:05 AM

Keith - we are actually in agreement this time,
I gave you a link to my much earlier post in this thread expressing my opinion...

I'm by no means a nationalist, but English premier football is too dominated by foreign money...

Personally, I wouldn't care if football disappeared forever along with all religions...

But there's still a slight remnant of that schoolboy in me
who grew up in a golden age culture of 1960s English 1st Division football...

Before Corporate Global profiteering / Sky Sports ruined the game...


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 08:19 AM

Yes PFR, but why are England's elite only run of the mill at best in Europe?
It can only be that boys with elite potential are being identified in other countries but not ours, otherwise why are there so many from Belgium (pop 12m) and so few from England (pop 55m).


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 08:10 AM

Keith - you missed the point...

The indigenous elite English players who are prominent in the premier league
are fairly important here.
In Europe they would be run of the mill at best...

My mrs would remind you that even tiny Wales has produced a better world class player, Gareth Bale...


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 04:37 AM

David,
So there is also a lack of ambition, or alternatively a parochialism, amongst young British footballers.

Is it true that English players are turning down offers from abroad, or are they just not good enough to be wanted?

PFR,
big fish small pond syndrome...???

Hardly. The English league id dominated by foreign players. Two thirds! The English players are the small fish in this pond.

I suspect that David is right about the English clubs not identifying skilled young players.They are being failed by the system and England is doomed to perpetual humiliation in internationals because of it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: olddude
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 08:19 PM

Agree with you steve they need work if they want to win it all. The competition this year was superb by all the teams. France deserve it as those goals were amazing


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 03:45 PM

Credit to both teams for providing a spectacle worthy of a World Cup final. Tell you what, though: the English team couldn't hold a candle to either of those two teams. We have a long way to go, and we haven't even got a decent striker!


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: robomatic
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 03:16 PM

Just watched the final game which was broadcast locally, free, on the FOX network station. Didn't understand it 100%, particularly why that French player was running the ball towards his own goal line just before the Croations made their second goal. Was he trying to get it to his goalie to kick it?

Looked to me like the Croations had wonderful teamwork, they seemed to kick the ball where they needed it to go and find a team-mate. The French had power and great capacity to get the ball from their opponents but too often it went where they weren't.

Might be the first game of soccer I've seen through to the end.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 02:46 PM

England - "awww.. let's have a look.. go on.. we're next door neighbours.. let's have a look and a quick hold of the cup..."

France - "Non !!!.. Va te faire foutre brexit bâtards !!!!!.."


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: keberoxu
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 02:23 PM

And in four years' time,
there will be a new Mudcat BS thread on the next World Cup.

In my part of the country,
the work-migration patterns have brought an entire generation,
maybe better, of Brazilians.
They go absolutely nuts every four years.
You have to resign yourself, when you visit restaurants where they work, to the screaming, hollering, and jumping around
if there is a World Cup match underway while you wait for the meal you ordered.
If it's the sort of establishment that has a television screen or four,
then you have that distraction as well.
Not to speak of bars or pubs.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 02:13 PM

Appallingly soft penalty at the end of the first half, but to be fair the French third and fourth goals were superbly taken. Excellent display from both teams.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: olddude
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 12:23 PM

Ugh Croatia goalie leaks like a broken sink


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: olddude
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 11:34 AM

Great game so far wow I hope cro takes it


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 11:14 AM

big fish small pond syndrome...???


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 10:39 AM

I have given my answer to this above, in my view its because of coaching methods in the junior game (ages 8 to about 14), where in England a premium is placed on size and strength, rather than on skill.

There is another issue to, we have seen in the England team for the world cup a number of players who could hold their own in La Liga or Serie A. But they don't go. Why? Since Beckham and Owen I can't think of an English player who is still a force at international level signing for an overseas club. Even those two were at the fag end of their careers. So there is also a lack of ambition, or alternatively a parochialism, amongst young British footballers.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 08:13 AM

The question Keith, is why are so few English players playing for top club sides elsewhere in Europe.

That is the same question. Why are so few English kids getting to that standard where foreign or even English clubs want them?


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 03:18 AM

Belgium played well. Particularly in the first half, but their counterattacks in the second half were superbly timed. Pickford made a great save to deny what would have been the best goal of the tournament. Only disappointment really was Lukaku, who, having been superb against Brazil has had two poor games.

Apart from Pickford, who has been England's best player of the tournament by a mile, the only England player worthy of mention was Loftus-Cheek. Kane has been dire since the Panama game.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: keberoxu
Date: 14 Jul 18 - 08:41 PM

nobody wants to talk about that third-place game ...


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 14 Jul 18 - 04:42 PM

The question Keith, is why are so few English players playing for top club sides elsewhere in Europe.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: gillymor
Date: 14 Jul 18 - 01:38 PM

So England will be 3rd or 4th, sounds like a pretty good outcome to me.

It seems a bit unfair that France gets an extra day's rest, especially considering all the extra minutes played by Croatia. Perhaps they should have held both semis on the same day.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Jul 18 - 01:35 PM

Keith - look back to my post

"From: punkfolkrocker - PM
Date: 05 Jul 18 - 03:14 PM
"


I was 7 years old, and still had a schoolboy's excitement in the game,
when we were all swept up enjoying the euphoria of winning the world cup...

Now I can't even remember watching it on the telly.....


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Jul 18 - 01:24 PM

Just 4th then, but why?
Why are so many of our best club players playing for other national teams against us? Is that true of other countries to the same extent?

The Belgian Captain and 12 of his 26 players play for English clubs.
The population of Belgium is less than 12m!


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Jul 18 - 12:43 PM

Keith - yes, we could still be third - 4 years from now...

..and by 2022, genetic scientists might also have successfully grown fully functioning wings on pigs...


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: keberoxu
Date: 14 Jul 18 - 12:17 PM

And here come the final World Cup games.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Jul 18 - 12:22 PM

We could still be third.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Jul 18 - 12:16 PM

What an achievement for the nation to celebrate - when was the last time the England team came 4th in the world cup...???


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 13 Jul 18 - 11:26 AM

hi Sen

IVERPOOL ????? Burn it....lol

You are right we caved in after we had scored and missed some sitters.

Steve I have heard that Southgate is not playing his top team.......don't know about Belgium.

regards Mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Senoufou
Date: 13 Jul 18 - 07:59 AM

We'll be backing Croatia in the Final.

I thought they played very creatively and with verve against us, and deserved to win. After that first goal, our team seemed to go a bit stodgy and leaden
.
Our flags have been taken down by a very grumpy husband, and he's wearing his Liverpool top this morning. (He has all the Premier League tops, and wears them indiscriminately). The England tracksuit has been washed and relegated to his bottom drawer. That's the end of that!


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Jul 18 - 05:55 AM

Croatia has half the population of London but beats our national team.
I read that only a third of our Premier League players are British. I am sure that is not the situation in Croatia.
Are we failing to train enough Brit. (eligable to play for England) youth?


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Jul 18 - 05:25 AM

Actually, the third-place match has has the potential to be an attractive watch. I'd like to see both coaches pick strong teams, not simply use it as a quasi-friendly making experimental use of non-playing squad members in order to be nice to them. Southgate made the severe error of doing that in the group stage dead rubber and we learned nothing from that game.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: michaelr
Date: 13 Jul 18 - 01:09 AM

1. I hope Croatia takes it.

2. No one cares about the third-place match.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 12 Jul 18 - 02:49 PM

Hi
""
" Steve is right when he says that we fold if the opposition fold."

The last word should be score.

Cheers

mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 12 Jul 18 - 09:15 AM

Hi

We lost because we were not good enough.....simple as that.

We were beaten by a team that was both physically and mentally superior men against boys.

We had a great start and as has been commented on below we failed to score when we had a bundle of chances all missed. Even the hard working Harry Maguire missed a good chance.

We had a lot of better players than Croatia but we did not use them correctly.

Steve is right when he says that we fold if the opposition fold.

I also believe we were over confident and underestimated the Croatia team.

There is hopes of improvement because we were a very young side and there is time for development.

We will have to wait and see.

Cheers

Mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Jul 18 - 06:02 AM

And the sheer wealth of the Premier League militates against our investing in native young talent. Just look at how many of those Belgians, for example, have been hoovered up by our top teams... Another factor in our lack of success is the propensity of the managers of Premier League clubs for withdrawing their key players from international duty at the slightest drop of a hat. Any little bruise or mythical muscle strain would suffice. Ferguson was a prime culprit. Hopefully, a part of Southgate's legacy will be to restore such pride in playing for England that such dishonest ploys become anathema.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 12 Jul 18 - 05:45 AM

The Croatian players were technically better, as will the Belgians be on Sunday, and as would the French be if England had played them. The problem in my view is the structure of the game at a young age, where in the UK (lets face it its even worse in Scotland) physical strength and size are appreciated more than skill. Unless things change from ages of around 10, England will never produce another Stanley Matthews or Tom Finney, and Scotland will never produce another Jim Baxter or Jimmy Johnstone.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 12 Jul 18 - 05:30 AM

No, Just pointing out that the lack of goals from 'open play' is not always the fault of the players, but can be compensated for by the set pieces which result from opponents preventing open play.
As to last night's match, I haven't seen it. My time was much better spent watching the excellent War Horse with Bob Fox as the 'songman'


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Jul 18 - 05:08 AM

England had plenty of chances to score from open play last night. That "world class striker" of ours should have netted two, if not three, and Lingard missed a golden opportunity. We are becoming a good team but we lack the guile and experience of the Modrics and Rakitics and Perisics of this world. Even the Lovrens. The guts fell out of the team after their equaliser, even before it. Southgate has more work to do on our team becoming more wily and psychologically strong when we go behind. Tough, physical and even cynical opposition is the name of the game these days. No use blaming that for our lack of goal-scoring. Wrong target, Nigel, and pointed to with a touch of old-style sour grapes whingeing. Face it. We simply fell short.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 12 Jul 18 - 04:53 AM

Yes, I'm a rugby man, but the comment made applies equally to G_Force's question about the lack of a score from open play in soccer.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Jul 18 - 04:49 AM

Rugby man, are you, Nigel?


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 12 Jul 18 - 03:38 AM

G-Force:
You made a similar comment after the Colombia game:

Amid all the euphoria, it's worth noting that England have now gone about 240 minutes without scoring from open play

My response now is similar to then:

But they are scoring from free-kicks or penalties.
Why are they getting free-kicks and penalties?
Because they are being illegally prevented from scoring from open play.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Jul 18 - 08:23 PM

Never mind.. the July Grand Sumo Wresting Tournament started a couple of days ago...

Daily highlights on NHK WORLD [there's an app if you can't find it on digital TV],

much more interesting and entertaining...


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Jul 18 - 06:12 PM

Spot on, G. You could have added that Kane has been a lame duck. Where the hell was he tonight? All very well going for the Golden Boot when most of your goals come from penalty kicks, you're the captain and as such get to decide who takes the penalties... you... He's useless. Hendo should be captain, we need a decent striker and one or two attacking midfielders with attitood. We seem to fall in love as a nation with donkeys such as Owen, Rooney and Kane, and, somehow, we can't drop them for about eight years each. They're the kiss of death for our national team. Which, by the way, Dick, is not the same thing as the Premier League...


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: G-Force
Date: 11 Jul 18 - 05:09 PM

2 hours of football and no England goal from open play. What we need is a couple of proper playmakers like Kevin de Bruyne who can really create chances rather than just kicking forward into empty space, and some forwards who can kick into the goal rather than 10 yards over it. Plus a defence that stays awake.

Then maybe we can dream of winning something.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: olddude
Date: 11 Jul 18 - 04:44 PM

Dang that was a lame kick at the end I thought they would tie it but not to be


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 11 Jul 18 - 04:42 PM

France - Croatia then. Hope it will be a good game. You would have to favour France, but Croatia are decent and were the better team tonight.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Jul 18 - 02:15 PM

Let's make the Premier League a repository for fourth-rate dobbins!" hardly, the present english team is made up of a considerable number of premier league players and at this moment they are one goal ahead


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Jul 18 - 11:38 AM

Well we'd better deport all those Belgians that populate the Premier League, then! I mean, Courtois, Mignolet, Kompany, Vertongen, De Bruyne, Fellaini, Lukaku, Hazard, Benteke, Mirallas, Origi, Dembele... Useless bunch of tossers the lot of 'em, they come over here, steal our women, eat our babies, play sublime football, shame us for our lack of investment in young native talent...Let's take back control! Send the buggers home! Let's make the Premier League a repository for fourth-rate dobbins!


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 11 Jul 18 - 08:34 AM

hi

I agree with David great game to watch both sides attacking and two well ordered and organized defenses kept the score down.

I don't agree that France "parked the Bus. They certainly pulled back Pogba who had an excellent first half. S'pose he is the size of a small bus. lol Didn't care who won but I suppose that Belgium going out suit many....we have had enough of Brussels lately.!!!!

In tonight's game I take England in a close game.

Cheers

Mike


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