BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Jul 18 - 12:02 PM

Because England has become crapper at football since 1992,
for reasons already pointed out to you more than once in this thread...

Profiteering global capitalism has taken over and destroyed traditional regional English community football culture,
that once thrived on nurturing young local loyal players...

Solution - follow rugby [until it also goes completely the way of bland corporate football]
and sumo wrestling instead...

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Jul 18 - 01:22 PM

... oh.. and as this is folk trad mudcat... Bog snorkelling and Ferret-legging...

Though unfortunately they don't seem to get much TV coverage......

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 18 Jul 18 - 02:09 PM

Keith, I don't think that is true. At the time of John Charles and Denis Law, and even at the time of David Platt and others, I don't think there were many foreign players in the British leagues. Chinaglia doesn't count, he grew up in Wales. Can you think of any from the 60s and early 70s.

Money is the key. Charles and Law were paid more in Italy than they would have been in England, Wales or Scotland. Now its the other way round.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 18 Jul 18 - 02:15 PM

English clubs cannot train English kids to the level that they can train foreign kids. By the time they get to the clubs, the damage has been done.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 18 Jul 18 - 02:54 PM

Hi Keith

There is no doubt that English clubs higher wages than almost all foreign clubs.

I was surprised to see only this week that Barcelona do not pay top money.



Foreign players flocked to England so much that in 2005 Arsenal played a full team of foreign players. More recently Chelsea have played 8 players.

Belgium have invested huge sums of money into sport. The result is that Belgium are progressing to be one of the leading sporting Countries.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Jul 18 - 04:39 AM

So unless our league clubs change their ways we will continue to be humiliated in all future international competitions, because there is no serious money to be made from them.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Jul 18 - 07:56 AM

I didn't feel humiliated...


but then, I'm neither a nationalist or a worshipper...

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: gillymor
Date: 20 Jul 18 - 08:12 AM

Keith sounds more like an official from the Ministry of Propaganda than an actual soccer fan.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 20 Jul 18 - 09:01 AM

That is indeed a bit extreme, firstly what is your concept of "we". I didn't take part, and I suspect neither did you. I don't feel ownership of a team just because it happens to have the same nationality as me. Secondly, and accepting that by "we" you mean the England football team, getting to the semi-final of a major competition is hardly being humiliated. Its just not quite being the best.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 20 Jul 18 - 09:39 AM

Hi Keith

Like others I never felt humiliated. England had a very good draw by only having to play...shall we say moderate opposition. So we qualified for the finals easily.

Gareth Southgate opted to select a very young squad because the more experience players were not up to standard.

We got to the semi finals, in doing so we got further than the likes of Brazil, Argentina,Spain etc.

We have a host of younger players coming along in the Under 17 and Under 21 Teams. So the future at this stage looks bright.
"
Money may be a factor but by no means does it guarantee "buying" The World Cup.

Think back to this year.....Croatia got to the final and could have won it but for a brilliant performance by France. I don't know what the financial position is with Croatia but would think it small compared with the more well known teams.

Football is a sport and one of the wonderful things about it is that you can't guarantee success.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Jul 18 - 10:16 AM

If WE did not fly the red cross flag of England from our bedroom windows during the world cup;
It will have been reported and noted that we are not true English patriots,
and will not be spared in the coming civil war...


[Maybe I'm watching too many far right youtube channels for the perverse fun of it...???]

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Jul 18 - 10:58 AM

Gilmore you are right. I am not a soccer fan. Many non fans take an interest in the World Cup.
David, I have noticed that many fans embrace the concept of "we" when talking of their club, even though they do not "take part."

As Mike said, England only got as far as it did because of an easy draw.
It was unable to beat teams from very small countries like Croatia and Belgium, and last time was knocked out by Iceland!

I would call that a humiliating defeat for a large country with a huge soccer industry, but as Mike said we fielded a young team who might fare better next time.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Jul 18 - 11:39 AM

Steve Shaw embracing the concept of "we,"
" We have a long way to go, and we haven't even got a decent striker! "

Did he take part?
Mike, thanks for your friendly tone.
keith.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jul 18 - 11:41 AM

Hoops.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 20 Jul 18 - 02:45 PM

Ho pfr

Down the road from me is a house that was flying a huge Portuguese flag.

Yhe occupants will be interrogated and shipped off back to Lisbon in irons. That will larn em.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: keberoxu
Date: 20 Jul 18 - 03:26 PM

Meanwhile we Mudcatters
in the United dis-united States of [North] America
watch all this going on:
so near, and yet so far!

Will it take us a century to qualify?

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Aug 18 - 09:51 AM

After Liverpool's demolition of West Ham and United's scruffy first victory, I think I can safely say to you, Mike, be afraid. Be very afraid...

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 16 Aug 18 - 03:14 PM

Hi Steve

I agree. We are completely disorganised at the moment. What a F*** up with the transfers.!!!

We were lucky to get away with it against Leicester. The Pogba/Mourinho saga is wrecking the club. We should do something about it. I have a feeling that one or the other ....or both will be fired very shortly.

In contrast Liverpool are very organised under Klopp. They have strengthed the team and wiped the floor with West Ham.

It's going to be a long season for us.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Aug 18 - 11:37 AM

Hmm. If this match carries on like this, 2-0 in under half an hour, Mourinho will be out on his ear by teatime, Mike! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Aug 18 - 11:58 AM

Giving away cheap penalties, duff defending, at-fault players whingeing at each other, manager storming off before the whistle...oh dear!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Aug 18 - 01:26 PM

City 6 Huddersfield 1. Wish I'd have watched it!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 05:32 AM

"You've gone strangely quiet, Mike," goaded Steve...   :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 06:34 AM

Just remind me Steve, when did Liverpool last win the Premiership, for some reason I can't remember!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 10:01 AM

1990 and 2019.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 10:10 AM

I don't follow much football, Raggy but I think the difference is that Liverpool look like a club that's moving forwards with a progressive and refreshing manager.

Man U don't look to be going anywhere and I don't know what's happened to Mourinho. Always full of himself but I used to find a likeable side. But since the last time at Chelsea, he seems (to me) to have turned more "bitter old man" and more interested in carping than building a team that would produce their best.

OK maybe the end of season will produce a different outcome but that's how I see things at the moment.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 10:49 AM

1990 Steve .......... really? The Premiership?

Either you or I have got our history wrong ........... and I don't think it's me!

:-)

Jon, I do not admire Mourinho, never have done, and even if he is the manager of Manchester United that does not alter. The sooner he leaves the club the better as far as I am concerned.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 11:43 AM

Hi Steve

" "You've gone strangely quiet, Mike," goaded Steve...   :-) "

Thanks for missing my absence. I have been away for the Bank Holiday week-end. I don't do any postings when I am away from home. I leave all that until I return.

Anyway noe that I am back I will agree with most of you comments. I did get to watch United in a pub in Llandudno. I agree that it was a shambles ;they played as though they did not know each other and did not care about doing so. Something will have to be done. First thing should be to get rid of Pogba. Then Mourinho should get his marching orders. At the moment there is no coverage of Man United, just loads of s**t about Pogba and Mourinho,

The way we are playing we won't even finish in the top 10, !!!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 02:58 PM

Hi Steve

Just heard that Jimmy Macilroy has died, Like you ( thousands of football lovers loved to watch him play. I saw Him several times and read about him in the football press and what a fantastic player he was. He was not just a great footballer but also a great man.

I know you saw many times more the me but I know you will aree that football has lost a wonderful talent.

Condolences to his family and all his friends. There will never be another like him

Sadly

MikL

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 08:35 PM

It's devastating to hear that Jimmy Mac has passed on. He was a true gentleman of football, as fine an inside forward who ever graced a football pitch, and, above all, my boyhood hero. Where were you on the evening of March 7 1961, you may ask? Well I was at Turf Moor, nine years old, watching Burnley beat Sheffield Wednesday 2-0 in a quarter-final FA Cup replay. It was a brilliant football match and Jimmy played a massive part. That night made me everything wot I am!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 21 Aug 18 - 10:28 AM

Hi watched Liverpool v Crystal Palace. It wasn't a great perfprmance by Liverpool but they won easily enough, and that's what counts.

That man Salah was head and shoulders the man of the match.

Liverpool will play much better than this as the season progresses.

Cheers

Mike

PS didn't hear anything from you about Man United beating Liverpool.....!!!!!    oh it was in the Women's League. United did well as it was their first game in the League for 30 years.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 21 Aug 18 - 02:18 PM

The rumour mill has it that United are deciding which of Pogba or MourinHo they are going to get rid of. I say it should be both.

We could do worse than to offer the manager job to Ryan Giggs. At least he will have them playing " the United way.

What do you think ?

Cheers

Mike

Ps Just heard that Martial will be going this week. !!!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Aug 18 - 07:11 PM

Palace are a tough bunch of buggers and I reckon they'll easily finish in the top half this season. Liverpool showed at last that they can win dirty. Three bloody good points from the match: Virgil was magisterial, Allison was not only a great stopper but is also a very cool and accurate distributor, and there was absolutely none of that mid-match flakiness that Liverpool demonstrated too often last season. It's between Liverpool and City this season. United won't finish in the top eight.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 22 Aug 18 - 10:08 AM

Hi Steve

Crystal Palace under Roy Hodgson are a difficult side - especially at home. Liverpool got away with a couple of decisions but as you say won dirty. All teams have to do it sometimes.

Unless United buck up you could be right about them struggling to get in the top ten. Nearly all the teams have strengthened their sides and other than Huddersfield and Cardiff any side can beat any other side.

I don't see Liverpool topping Man City but we will watch with interest.

cheers

Mike

PS Now it seams that at United Anthony Martial is now staying having demanded a moved all year. I would let him go.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Aug 18 - 10:53 AM

I thought the ref had a particularly good game, actually. The penalty was a definite foul, no doubt about that, and the sending-off was obligatory within the rules. The only thing I saw Liverpool getting away with was Andros thumping one against the crossbar. A decisive moment.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 22 Aug 18 - 02:55 PM

Hi Steve

Strange how two people watching the same game see things differently.

I thought that there was some doubt about Salah going down as did most of the guys in the pub.

However if the ref saw it as a foul then he was right to send him off.
The problem is that the referees are not consistent. For this incident some refs would have not given a penalty. But the referee can only give what he sees. Maybe The Premier League should install VAR ??

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Aug 18 - 03:58 PM

Yebbut you're a Man U man, so...

Salah was definitely clipped for the sending off - the only slight doubt is that he just MAY have been letting the ball run a bit too far ahead of him. But it was a clear foul, no messing, and the defender was not going for the ball. I've watched the replay Gawd knows how many times. The ref made the right call and had no option.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 23 Aug 18 - 02:59 PM

Hi Steve

Do you think that because I am a Man United supporter I am biassed in my views of Liverpool and Man City,??

I am not. love football no matter who is playing. I try to be objective about all the games I see.

Obviously at times my views differ from others' but I try to be fair.

Naturally I want United to be successful again. We are miles behind Liverpool and Man City and others too. I try to give credit where it is due.

We are playing Burnley this week. Burnley are one of the clubs I admire. I wish them well even though they are playing us,

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 24 Aug 18 - 09:29 AM

Ps to previous post.

Don't know why I said United is playing Burnley at the week-end

They are actually playing Tottenham.

Weill be a good test of United's struggle to find form.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 28 Aug 18 - 11:13 AM

Hi

I went to Old Trafford last night to watch United Play Spurs.

The were well beaten 0-3 in an interesting but not exciting clash.

United had the best of the first half and managed to miss some scoring opportunities, especially Lucacu whom seems to have lost his shooting boots.

The second half with a different Tottenham team do most of the attacking. The inevitable happened when Kane scored. After that it was all Spurs and they ran out easy winners.

This is the worst start to the season that United have ever had since 1962. But perhaps we needn't worry because they went on to win the League. ( Fingers crossed in hope rather than expectation.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Aug 18 - 08:03 PM

No way, Mike. You're heading for the bottom half and you know it. Unless you get rid of the Unspecial One very quickly indeed. That second-half defensive display was a farce. And Pogba was bloody useless. On top of that, Spurs were denied a cast-iron penalty in the first half. You need shot of Phil Jones.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 06:52 PM

Chelsea - great to watch, new manager, new lease of life, Hazard firing on five out of four cylinders. I love it.

But come on now, chaps. Liverpool. The team that the whole world now fears. PSG neatly put away. Neymar, Di María, Cavani, Mbappe... where were you, chaps! And Liverpool still haven't completely found their stride. Be very afraid, Mike!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: keberoxu
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 07:00 PM

I like lurking around this thread.
This is much more the thing.
Heated and animated discussion
without Mudcatters being disgusting to fellow Mudcatters.
Yes, yes, I'll shut up now.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Sep 18 - 12:26 PM

No need to shut up as long as you keep saying nice things about Liverpool. Just don't mention Manchester United, that's all... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Sep 18 - 08:49 PM

Hi Mike. Haven't heard from you for a bit. Where art thou!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 20 Sep 18 - 02:46 PM

Hi Steve

We have been away in North Yorkshire for a while. Don't use the internet while I am away. Back for a couple of days and then off to North Wales .

I have been able to watch some of the games in pubs etc while away.

Liverpool have looked unbeatable until the wobbled a bit the other night. It was a surprise because the defence has looked so solid.
but Firmino saved some red faces and earned The Pool a deserved win.

I have watched Man United. They have managed to recover from a terrible start and have won the last three games away from home, including a good win last night over Young Boys of Berne. United were overrun on the plastic surface in the first quarter of the game but gradually improved and won relatively easily in the end.

I don't think we are any way near to hitting the standard that we United supporters expect. The defence is disorganised and the attack very wasteful in front of goal. There does not appear to be very much endeavour in the team yet.


I would not bang the drum too much about Liverpool Steve, they have done nothing yet They have collapsed in mid-season too many times recently and have not won anything of note for about a dozen years.

Man City got a shock last night but I didn't see the game. So there is many a slip twixed cup and lip.

Looks like being an interesting season I am looking forward to it.

See Ya

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Sep 18 - 06:29 PM

Underestimate us at your peril, Mike. You looked great last night - against very poor opposition. We were playing Paris Saint-Germain for chrissake!

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Sep 18 - 03:03 AM

Should have popped in Mike. Mind you, it is a big place!

I see City got beat by Lyon the other day. I went to HPs offices in Lyon once. Only works canteen I have been in that serve wine. By way of nothing at all...

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 21 Sep 18 - 02:34 PM

hi Steve

I was not and I am not underestimating Liverpool, I was just trying to advise you not to get too confident so soon in the season.

I am aware in the difference which Liverpool played against PSG and in no way compared it to United;s performance.

I said in my earlier post that we are not good enough to take on top European teams -including Liverpool at this moment. In fact I think they will have to improve vastly if the want to finish in the top 6 in the Premiere League.

I hope I am wrong.

Cheers

Mike - heading off to Wales early tomorrow. Good luck for the up-and-coming games.

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 21 Sep 18 - 02:42 PM

Hi Dave

Thank you for the kind thought but I don't know where you are and don't know a contact for you. Would have been great to share a drink ( or two)!!!

Shooting off to North Wales tomorrow for a couple of weeks. That is if it is still there after the weather of the last few days.!!!!!   Not sure exactly where we will be staying until we have seen what the weather holds.

cheers

mike

Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Sep 18 - 02:54 PM

Between near Skipton, Mike. PM me on here if you are ever in the area.

Oh, 600:-)