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BS: how can you be other than an extremist?
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Subject: RE: BS: how can you be other than an extremist? From: Dave the Gnome Date: 11 Jan 18 - 05:10 PM The RC cathedral at Westminster has an entire preserved saint - John Southworth if I remember rightly. It was pretty extreme what they did to him! Lovely cathedral. Very Italian in style. DtG |
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Subject: RE: BS: how can you be other than an extremist? From: Steve Shaw Date: 11 Jan 18 - 05:38 PM My mum has always said that if all the true relics of the cross were really true you'd have enough wood for Epping Forest! I've seen several lots of saints' bones in Italy since our 2013 trip to Naples. The other thing you see in Italian churches is some kind of depiction of a skull, often complete with crossbones. I felt the heat but jumped away before I got burned, Senoufou. My sandals were never the same again and I wore them just for gardening after that. The brand was Source, made in Israel. I still have an old pair that act as slippers when we go on holiday. Sadly, you can't get them here any more. I did get severely bitten by mosquitos in the Solfatara. I still have a scar on my leg to prove it. We'd been in the same area a month earlier and I'd escaped without a single bite, so the little buggers must have seen me coming. Grrr! |
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Subject: RE: BS: how can you be other than an extremist? From: Senoufou Date: 11 Jan 18 - 05:55 PM Glad you weren't badly burned Steve. Aren't mosquitoes absolute little sods? They really love me, and I've been terribly bitten in Africa, in spite of wearing full-length skirts and long-sleeved, loose tops. My feet are covered in awful scars where some bites got infected. Good job I religiously take my anti-malarials when in the Tropics! I don't much like relics of bones, skulls, bits of 'the Cross' etc. They detract in my view from the actual spirituality. My sister is in the Church of Scotland, and they have completely simple buildings with plain white walls and just a pulpit for the Minister to conduct prayers and preach, no statues, pictures or candles. Very basic. |
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Subject: RE: BS: how can you be other than an extremist? From: Steve Shaw Date: 11 Jan 18 - 06:49 PM Well I love the church architecture I've seen all over Spain and Italy. Quite often, the insides don't match, either in art or in good taste, the fabulous exteriors. There are far too many cheap statues of generic flavour that are, er, painted. Then you have those awful obscene violent crucifixion depictions, sacred bleeding hearts and amateurish statues of saints gazing slightly upwards into a heavenly middle distance as though they are half-way through not quite the best orgasm they've ever had. Lots of the churches in Florence and Venice have amazing works of art and I've seen some wonderful Tintorettos, Giotto frescos, Donatello bas-reliefs and the rest. But the whole lot means an awful lot to me. It's my heritage, just as much as it's the heritage of the most fervent believer, which is what I am most decidedly not. I love it all and I go into every big church in every city I visit as my obsessive numero uno priority (though if you ever go to Napoli don't miss the Archaeological Museum, and if you ever go to Florence don't miss the Uffizi gallery). If you ever get to Lecce in Puglia, go to the Santa Croce basilica. Outside and in, it's my very favourite. Well, there's Hereford Cathedral too... |
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Subject: RE: BS: how can you be other than an extremist? From: Mr Red Date: 11 Jan 18 - 07:35 PM Something on TV tonight made reference to a church in Sweden that (in the day) claimed to have a few drops of Jesus's mother's breast milk! No tell me I am stretching the definition but asking people to believe that one (even in medieval times) is a bit extreme! Hereford Cathedral - very Norman. Personally I get more excited when the fabric is pre-Norman. Like Brixworth Church. More Roman than Romanesque. The fabric that is, the actual building is a mere 1300 years old, quarried from a Roman villa. The fabric that is. |
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Subject: RE: BS: how can you be other than an extremist? From: robomatic Date: 11 Jan 18 - 11:08 PM Courtesy of William Schwenk Gilbert: WILLIS When all night long a chap remains On sentry-go, to chase monotony He exercises of his brains, That is, assuming that he's got any. Though never nurtured in the lap Of luxury, yet I admonish you, I am an intellectual chap, And think of things that would astonish you. I often think it's comical--Fal, lal, la! How Nature always does contrive--Fal, lal, la! That every boy and every gal That's born into the world alive Is either a little Liberal Or else a little Conservative! Fal, lal, la! When in that House MPs divide, If they've a brain and cerebellum, too, They've got to leave that brain outside, And vote just as their leaders tell 'em to. But then the prospect of a lot Of dull MPs in close proximity, All thinking for themselves, is what No man can face with equanimity. Let's rejoice with loud Fal la--Fal la la! That Nature always does contrive--Fal lal la! That every boy and every gal That's born into the world alive Is either a little Liberal Or else a little Conservative! Fal lal la! |
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Subject: RE: BS: how can you be other than an extremist? From: Joe Offer Date: 12 Jan 18 - 12:02 AM Donuel says: Joe you sound like; Love me. love me love me, I'm a liberal. Maybe, Donuel, but I think your disdain for my thinking illustrates the prime trait of the extremist: The extremist would much prefer to be right, than to compromise and actually get something accomplished. And speaking of extremists who are never wrong, how 'bout that guy coming out and expressing his disdain for "shithole" nations? -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: how can you be other than an extremist? From: Dave the Gnome Date: 12 Jan 18 - 03:27 AM The extremist would much prefer to be right, than to compromise and actually get something accomplished. Joe, that may be one trait of an extremist but is not extreme in itself. Many people have that characteristic, including some on here, but it does not make them extremists. The term should only be used for people who are, well, extreme. DtG |
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Subject: RE: BS: how can you be other than an extremist? From: Joe Offer Date: 12 Jan 18 - 04:12 AM Ah, but Dave, the converse is almost always true. The extremist is always right (in his/her mind), but rarely gets anything accomplished. People on the fringes don't get support until they get realistic and seek support from the good people in the middle - and there are lots of good people in the middle. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: how can you be other than an extremist? From: Dave the Gnome Date: 12 Jan 18 - 04:21 AM OK, Joe, you are right... :-) Seriously though, there are too many issues being conflated here. If you start to tar everyone who has any such traits as extremists you will never be able to address the issue of real extremism. Can you honestly say that you consider those who always have to 'win' their arguments on here as extremists? Do you really think that there are any extremists, in the true sense of the word, posting on Mudcat? If there are I think you need to exclude them immediately! DtG |
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Subject: RE: BS: how can you be other than an extremist? From: Steve Shaw Date: 12 Jan 18 - 05:01 AM Rarely get anything accomplished? I heard of one bloke who many consider to have been an extremist who accomplished a Holocaust... |
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Subject: RE: BS: how can you be other than an extremist? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 12 Jan 18 - 06:12 AM Dave, Extremists are people who have either extreme views such as Stalinists,fascists or flat earthers; or those that perform extreme acts such as burning places and killing people. Other than the odd religious fruit cake, racist or homophobe I have never come across an extremist on this forum. You have certainly come across people here whose views are of the Far Left. Those are extreme political views. |
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Subject: RE: BS: how can you be other than an extremist? From: Dave the Gnome Date: 12 Jan 18 - 06:22 AM No I have not. DtG |
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Subject: RE: BS: how can you be other than an extremist? From: Jim Carroll Date: 12 Jan 18 - 06:30 AM "You have certainly come across people here whose views are of the Far Left." None whatever The only extremists on this forum are the Islamophobes who talk about "implants" and Anti Semites who claim that to criticise Israel is antisemitic There are very few open racists part from the small number of anti travellers and those , but there are those who attack the Irish (especially those who accuse Irish children of being "brainwashed to hate Britain") Apart from those few, very few actual extrmists Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: how can you be other than an extremist? From: Steve Shaw Date: 12 Jan 18 - 06:44 AM Well I'll contemplate whether or not I'm a ravin' leftie extremist as I drive to Waitrose later on... |
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Subject: RE: BS: how can you be other than an extremist? From: Raggytash Date: 12 Jan 18 - 06:48 AM I take it you have already read your scumbag left wing rag the Guardian? |
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Subject: RE: BS: how can you be other than an extremist? From: Dave the Gnome Date: 12 Jan 18 - 06:50 AM Unite against the capitalist oppressor, Comrades! Buy your chia seeds from Aldi. DtG |
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Subject: RE: BS: how can you be other than an extremist? From: Steve Shaw Date: 12 Jan 18 - 07:01 AM I'm off to Lidl in a minute as they stock a very nice Primitivo for £4.99... then with Mrs Steve to Morrisons to get some veg. Revolution, comrades! |
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Subject: RE: BS: how can you be other than an extremist? From: Raggytash Date: 12 Jan 18 - 07:22 AM Me too!! I'm a decadent raging left winger, why only last week I bought a dozen bottles of Chateauneuf Du Pape from Lidl at £9.99 a bottle !! |
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Subject: RE: BS: how can you be other than an extremist? From: Raggytash Date: 12 Jan 18 - 07:30 AM I'll probably drink a couple at the dinner party I'm holding on Sunday! |
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Subject: RE: BS: how can you be other than an extremist? From: Dave the Gnome Date: 12 Jan 18 - 07:36 AM I have just had Polish bread and sausage for lunch. I must be a rabid pinko commie. :D tG |
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Subject: RE: BS: how can you be other than an extremist? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 12 Jan 18 - 07:49 AM Steve, please tell your friends again that you are Far left and proud of it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: how can you be other than an extremist? From: Dave the Gnome Date: 12 Jan 18 - 08:00 AM I think anyone sensible knows enough about your politics to understand what you mean Steve. Don't jump! Interesting that Joe classed those who "would much prefer to be right, than to compromise and actually get something accomplished" as extremists though. I disagreed but I do recognise that trait in someone posting here. If I could just put my finger on it... :D tG |
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Subject: RE: BS: how can you be other than an extremist? From: Jim Carroll Date: 12 Jan 18 - 08:25 AM "Steve, please tell your friends again that you are Far left and proud of it." Whwn you tell the world that your policies are in line with the BNP and Ukip, you might be entitled to suggest that Keith Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: how can you be other than an extremist? From: Joe Offer Date: 12 Jan 18 - 09:03 AM Dave, I say it again: your backwards understanding of what I said is incorrect. Read again. Joe Offer |
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Subject: RE: BS: how can you be other than an extremist? From: Dave the Gnome Date: 12 Jan 18 - 09:28 AM I think your disdain for my thinking illustrates the prime trait of the extremist: The extremist would much prefer to be right, than to compromise and actually get something accomplished. Seems pretty straightforward to me, Joe, but I am more than happy for you to correct me if you did not mean what this says. DtG |
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Subject: RE: BS: how can you be other than an extremist? From: Steve Shaw Date: 12 Jan 18 - 10:14 AM I'm a leftie and you are a Tory, Keith. Let our speech be yea yea, nay nay. |
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Subject: RE: BS: how can you be other than an extremist? From: Vashta Nerada Date: 12 Jan 18 - 10:41 AM Jumping to the bottom - I don't know where Jackaroodave gets his misinformation. Bra burning was most definitely a thing in it's day. |
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Subject: RE: BS: how can you be other than an extremist? From: Steve Shaw Date: 12 Jan 18 - 10:43 AM Shouldn't that be Ms Information? And, er, "bottom..."? |
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Subject: RE: BS: how can you be other than an extremist? From: Jackaroodave Date: 12 Jan 18 - 12:49 PM Vashta, I'm not saying it never happened, and I shouldn't have implied that in my first post, but in the US it was never a mass protest phenomenon, as it was portrayed by chauvinists in the media, and it began with an inaccurate report of the 1968 Miss America protest. For my source, check the link I provided. It's actually of interest how the meme got started I csn add that my feminist friends and feminists whose work I read at the time were furious at this misrepresentation of their cause. Do you have any information about that photo, by the. way? |
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Subject: RE: BS: how can you be other than an extremist? From: Vashta Nerada Date: 12 Jan 18 - 12:54 PM There were protests and burning bras was a feature of some of them - there are other photos in which women are clearly braless, but not burning bras. That was more common, as I recall. The information from some sources say the photo itself is from a Toronto protest. |
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Subject: RE: BS: how can you be other than an extremist? From: Jackaroodave Date: 12 Jan 18 - 01:09 PM Here's the link again: Msinformation As far as ot wearing a bra goes, few of the young people I hung out with in the late 60s-early 70s wore bras, feminists or not--except when they had to present themselves as straight. Sorry for the thread drift. |
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Subject: RE: BS: how can you be other than an extremist? From: Joe Offer Date: 12 Jan 18 - 08:28 PM Dave Gnome sez: Interesting that Joe classed those who "would much prefer to be right, than to compromise and actually get something accomplished" as extremists though. I disagreed but I do recognise that trait in someone posting here. If I could just put my finger on it... Logical Error Alert!!!! Dave, I classed extremists as those who "would much prefer to be right, than to compromise and actually get something accomplished". You got it switched around, Dave. Not all those who insist on their rightness over willingness to compromise, are extremists. I think they're mostly all assholes, though. We have to be able to forge compromises that are satisfactory to all, if we are to be able to live in peace with our neighbors. I don't think that a good compromise involves feeling forced to accept something that one considers unacceptable. I think we need to go farther and work out compromises that serve the needs of all. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: how can you be other than an extremist? From: Steve Shaw Date: 12 Jan 18 - 08:31 PM " Not all those who insist on their rightness over willingness to compromise, are extremists. They're all assholes, though." Not if they happen to be right they're not. |
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Subject: RE: BS: how can you be other than an extremist? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 12 Jan 18 - 08:41 PM the American election was a good illustration. you couldn't get the bernie sanders faction to admit they were opening the door to the age of Trump. |
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Subject: RE: BS: how can you be other than an extremist? From: Joe Offer Date: 12 Jan 18 - 08:55 PM You could get in trouble for saying that stuff about Bernie Sanders around here, Al, but you may well be right. Seems to me, that Ralph Nader did the same thing to Al Gore in 2000. I do think that Nader and Sanders had a lot to say that was worthwhile, but I think it's quite possible that Nader and Sanders gave the elections to "W" and Trump. Was it worth it for them to lose an election and be "right"? -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: how can you be other than an extremist? From: Steve Shaw Date: 12 Jan 18 - 08:56 PM And so they shouldn't have. The "you're splitting the vote so you'd better back off and let me stand on my own" argument is mischievous and downright undemocratic. |
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Subject: RE: BS: how can you be other than an extremist? From: Joe Offer Date: 12 Jan 18 - 09:02 PM I dunno, Steve. I think coalitions and compromise are essential. Those who can't compromise, end up shooting themselves in the foot. Elizabeth Warren is another very admirable person who may well be causing the right wing to control the U.S. And Trump and the right wing have me very scared right now. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: how can you be other than an extremist? From: Donuel Date: 12 Jan 18 - 10:13 PM My missing post explains that Joe. I challenge your middle of the road position I DO NOT DISTAIN your stance. I think we all would personally like to be a centrist, then nearly everyone would agree with us. The alternative is a meaningful diversity with a 1st amendment protection. Going point by point I think I agreed with them all. Just look out for careless drivers out in the middle of the road, passing on the right. |
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Subject: RE: BS: how can you be other than an extremist? From: robomatic Date: 13 Jan 18 - 01:23 AM "I've said it before and I'll say it again. . . Democracy just doesn't work!" - Kent Brockman "You can always buy the rope from a Capitalist that you're going to hang him with." - V. I. Lenin |
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Subject: RE: BS: how can you be other than an extremist? From: Dave the Gnome Date: 13 Jan 18 - 03:00 AM Ok, thanks Joe. I now understand what you meant. It is not what you said though, is it? Your phrase illustrates the prime trait of the extremist indicates, to me, that one can spot an extremist by looking for this 'prime trait'. It's like profiling and I am sure you understand what a risky business that can be. We may now be talking semantics but it is important that we use unambiguous phrases on a chat forum that relies soley on words. I have often re-phrased an earlier poorly crafted phrase with one closer to my intention only to be accused of 'squirming'. I will continue to do it though as I understand that not everyone is on the same wavelength and I may need to try a few times before I convey my meaning to everyone accurately. Glad you can do the same. Eventually:-) DtG Fixed. ----mudelf |
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Subject: RE: BS: how can you be other than an extremist? From: Joe Offer Date: 13 Jan 18 - 03:28 AM Well, anyhow, my ideal president was Barack Obama. That should give you an idea of where I stand. My phone can't fix your italics, Dave. I'll fix it tomorrow. Joe |
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Subject: RE: BS: how can you be other than an extremist? From: Dave the Gnome Date: 13 Jan 18 - 04:52 AM No probs, Joe. Thanks anyway. DtG |
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Subject: RE: BS: how can you be other than an extremist? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 13 Jan 18 - 05:24 AM Jim, Whwn you tell the world that your policies are in line with the BNP and Ukip, you might be entitled to suggest that Keith That would be a lie Jim. I am in the centre, and voted Labour when they occupied that ground. They moved away from me, and many others because thy stopped winning elections when they lurched to the Left. Steve, are you still proud to be far Left, or embarrassed now? |
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Subject: RE: BS: how can you be other than an extremist? From: Jim Carroll Date: 13 Jan 18 - 05:32 AM Keith You voted for the party led by a man who lied to help accelerate the oil war which led to the rise of Isis Your record of Islamophobia and anti-Irish hatred is on record Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: how can you be other than an extremist? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 13 Jan 18 - 06:12 AM I have no record of such hateful things Jim. |
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Subject: RE: BS: how can you be other than an extremist? From: Dave the Gnome Date: 13 Jan 18 - 06:41 AM If there is something far beyond you in the political spectrum it cannot be said you are an extremist. Unless of course you are given to moving the goalposts as is the wont of someone on here. I never realised that the transfer of leadership from Blair to Brown was a lurch to the left. Was it not Brown who stopped winning elections when Cameron (aka Blair clone) won power in 2010? You learn some DtG |
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Subject: RE: BS: how can you be other than an extremist? From: Steve Shaw Date: 13 Jan 18 - 07:06 AM Are you proud that you are a Tory-voting, Labour-hating, right-wing, Farage-defending, Bibi-backing brexiteer who would be well-advised to keep your views to yourself if you ever visited Rochdale or the West Bank, Keith? Now a word your shell-like: I don't care how you wish to brand me or anybody else. Why would I bother when you are wrong about everything all the time? |
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Subject: RE: BS: how can you be other than an extremist? From: Steve Shaw Date: 13 Jan 18 - 07:10 AM Having said all that, if your claim is true that extremists are the people at the edges of bell curves, I reluctantly concede that you don't qualify because there are so many of you with those deluded views. Maybe there are such things as off-centre extremists... |
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Subject: RE: BS: how can you be other than an extremist? From: Raggytash Date: 13 Jan 18 - 07:20 AM Hoops, jumping ................ |
