BS: Foul Mouthed trump!

Subject: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 03:11 AM

From the BBC
US President Donald Trump has reportedly lashed out at immigrants in a foul-mouthed Oval Office outburst.
"Why are we having all these people from shithole countries come here?" Mr Trump asked lawmakers on Thursday, in remarks widely reported by US media.
The remark, made during talks on an immigration deal, was apparently in reference to people from Haiti, El Salvador and African countries.
The White House made no attempt to deny the comment.

Absolutely disgraceful.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Mr Red
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 03:46 AM

On the plus side, he ainta comin' to the UK for the opening of the US embassy. Because he knows there would be demonstrations.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 05:23 AM

what is foul mouthed are people like Donuel making fun of retards like the Donald. Has he no decency sir?

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Senoufou
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 06:04 AM

I reckon he's afraid of lax security and danger of attack if he came to London.
Imagine any Head of State saying '...shithole countries...' - what a diplomat!
Are most Americans squirming at this appalling man's pronouncements? Or are most of them still delighted he was elected?

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 06:12 AM

Yes, with the exception of Replica Republican Congressmen and Senators.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Iains
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 08:23 AM

https://www.sciencealert.com/swearing-is-a-sign-of-more-intelligence-not-less-say-scientists

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Charmion
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 08:27 AM

Mr Trump's question answers itself. If your country were not a shithole, why would you leave -- let alone emigrate to a crazy, mixed-up political experiment like the United States of America?

Most days, I look out my window to view the snowy landscape and send up a little prayer of thanks that my father did not get the job he interviewed for at Columbia University in 1952, thus ensuring that my bothers and I would be born in boring old Ottawa, the city where they roll up the sidewalks at sunset. Consequently, I get to read about the shenanigans south of the border with mild interest, not lurching dread.

I imagine that many Norwegians feel something similar.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 08:32 AM

"https://www.sciencealert.com/swearing-is-a-sign-of-more-intelligence-not-less-say-scientists"
Members of the Flat Earth Society, no doubt
His forthcoming visit to Britain has been has been kicked into touch (because of the protests that inevitably would take place, and a European spokesman has described his behaviour as "unacceptable and racist"
Just goes to prove that the biographer who described him as mentally unstable had it right
Leader if the 'Free World eh!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Rapparee
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 08:44 AM

What is appalling is his inability to use something other than crudities. He has, obviously, a deficient vocabulary.

That does not in any way mitigate his offensive behavior, and I think he owes some big, big apologies -- with actions to back them up.

Reprehensible. SAD!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 09:28 AM

Trumps are meant to be foul.. that is their purpose in life..

Loud and noxious...!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 09:50 AM

Rap - my cartoon of today (man looks quizzical next to his TV)
caption:
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.
THIS HAS BEEN A TEST OF THE EMERGENCY BROADCAST NETWORK...
"I am sorry, that remark was inappropriate, I indeed apologize but it was accurate"... IF THIS HAD BEEN AN ACTUAL APOLOGY BY TRUMP YOU WOULD BE INSTRUCTED TO TUNE TO YOUR LOCAL STATIONS TO LEARN WHAT TO DO NEXT.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 10:04 AM

deficient in vocabulary...?

not really. he expressed his meaning fairly well. do you really feel if he'd called these countries 'anal orifice countries' that it would have been a morale booster for them, or a diplomatic triumph?

Perhaps what he meant was, he hadn't built a Trump tower in any of them yet.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 10:39 AM

My fellow Aryans in Brexit Britain Scandinavia Germany and America, beyond all the fun and jokes;

It is Trump's intent and deliberate behavior, mirroring his own words, that a racist and authoritarian fascist Western World become whites only and employ merit based immigration and pass ethnic purity tests.

If you think you are immune, you are at heart, fascist friendly or very naïve and stupid.

Of course I hope the Trumpists become another failed Hitler movement without millions of deaths spent defeating him.

We will continue to resist and laugh him away but we should never forget he is the epitome of evil.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Jackaroodave
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 11:07 AM

It's a national disgrace that this racist, mysogynist xenophobe ever got within sniffing distance of a major party's nomination, Senoufou.

But fair is fair; a majority of the electorate voted against him. Recently his approval rating has been around 40%, a historic low for a first year president.

And that's before Fire and Fury came out with Bannon's devastating portrait of him and his out-of-control staff, and the current questioning of his mental fitness at press conferences, and this most recent episode.

On the other hand, it's not exactly a stirring defense to say that "only" forty percent approve, I know.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 11:24 AM

So, we've got a shithole president. This is NEWS??

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 11:31 AM

The ghosts of the members of the 1787 US Constitutional Convention are wishing they could go back to Philadelphia and change the wording of Section 4 of Article Two to "The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, other high Crimes and Misdemeanors, or being a total Embarrassment to The United States of America."

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Senoufou
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 11:53 AM

I wonder actually if he's 'all there'. He does to me seem to be exhibiting signs of dementia. (Angry, childish rantings, apparently not recognising faces, repeating himself over and over, fixed, vacant expression etc)
I'm all for democracy, but did the people fully realise just what they were voting for?
I can imagine the consternation of the men behind the scenes frantically trying to perform damage limitation every time he opens his mouth!

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 12:00 PM

Sen - I just wonder how much more difficult life for our family would be if my mum had broadband
and knew how to surf twitter and internet social media...???

Thankfully she never held any positions of socio political responsibility and power.

Must have been so tough for Thatcher's carers...!!!


We get enough of such problems here at mudcat...

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Senoufou
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 12:24 PM

The thing is, it's very hard to sanction removing from power an elected Head of State - it would look like a coup.
I'm thinking of Robert Mugabe. He was barely lucid towards the end, but folk were loath to oust him - it's not an easy thing to tackle.
I suppose it would need a medical and psychological assessment.
And it seems Trump has moments of normality; he could refuse to be assessed.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Jackaroodave
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 12:24 PM

I'm of two minds about the impeachment of Trump: He is the true face of the movement and seems to go out of his way to make it repulsive. I am sure he is not the only anti-immigration pol to use that expression, but he IS the only one who will hang it out there for all to see.

At the same time, he is politically incompetent, and he continues to polarize his party.

I'm afraid one reason for his declining popularity is the realization by his supporters that he is unable to do the job they elected him to do. I don't think Vice-President Pence is any political wizard, but the Republicans can dress him up, feed him his lines, and he'll do as he's told.

A disruptive political doofus wrapped in a disgusting personality at the head of the party you despise--not all bad.

On the other hand . . . . . . there's his ideology, unspeakable cruelty, and all that nuclear holocaust business.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Vashta Nerada
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 12:59 PM

Trump is stupid, Pence is vile. Getting rid of Trump only puts the machinery in the hands of a zealot who will trounce the rights of many people because his god tells him to. Someone who might "act" presidential but who will continue to dismantle the social safety net put in place over the last 60 years.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 01:11 PM

It's the difference between a loud Trump

..and a sneaky silent killer...!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Jackaroodave
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 01:23 PM

I think you're absolutely right, Vashta. My real qualm about not replacing Trump is that he's done so much to make the most poisonous racism safe and to encourage it. His reaction to the Charlottesville murders was close to a license to kill.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 01:45 PM

Lots of truisms here. If I were British I would not peek at the Trump is a one trick pony thread either. I seldom look at Brexit.

Some people might remember the Grand Dame of the Press Corps that questioned Presidents for 5 decades beginning with JFK.

She was witty and feisty. Toward the end of her career her mind betrayed her. I will not diagnose but we all know of the looming threat to the elderly. Helen suddenly began uttering invectives and anti semetic slurs. She was quickly and respectfully swept away.

Most of us see the tongue and groove fit of Trump's dementia and racism with the ambitions of the Neo Nazi movement.
Face it , Donald is more than stupid but the Vichy Republican Congress wants to milk it for another manipulative 7 years.

The Republican agenda calls for stupid pliable men. Democratic agendas need smart leaders.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Jackaroodave
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 02:51 PM

I don't know, Donuel. Trump and I were both born on June 14, 1946, so I'm not a fan of the senilty explanation (or of astrology).

As far as I can tell, he's never used a filter, and since he's become the most powerful man in the world, why start now? His interpretation of reality as his own reality show isn't necessarily a sign of stupidity. It's worked pretty well up until quite recently.

I don't know about right-wing Republicans looking forward to 7 more years of pratfalls and pies in the face, either. After all, it was no flaming liberal who started this thread.

If I were a member of the Freedom Caucus and could replace him with Pence by snapping my fingers, I'd do it like THAT!

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Senoufou
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 03:17 PM

Senile dementia can occur in one's fifties (early onset) One poor chap in our village had to become a resident of a care home at 58 due to his illness. However Dougie, another neighbour, is 99, fit as a flea and sharp as a needle.
I think many here in UK are very much afraid of what Trump might provoke regarding starting wars and alienating other nations.
Senile or not, he's a dangerous man as well as a thoroughly unpleasant one.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Jackaroodave
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 04:14 PM

"I think many here in UK are very much afraid of what Trump might provoke regarding starting wars and alienating other nations."

Over here, too.

I'm afraid, though, that replacing him with someone less foul-mouthed and belligerent might not necessarily work.

As a Republican, George W. Bush was a centrist. His family did not endorse Trump and probably didn't vote for him. But by the time he was as deep in his term as Trump is now, he and his crew had spent months laying the groundwork for the Iraq invasion. (Which Clinton, Trump's opponent, and a rather hawkish Secretary of State herself, initially supported.) So Bush may have actually been more dangerous in his first year than Trump has been, despite his mouth. Let's hope so. Trump would have to go some to accomplish as much harm as Bush eventually did, but he's certainly capable.

I'm afraid, and I apologize for it, that the US threats to global security can't be resolved by getting rid of the obvious rotten apples.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 05:40 PM

one reason for his declining popularity is the realization by his supporters that he is unable to do the job they elected him to do

Except for the fact that his dumbfuck supporters have no idea what 'the job" was or is that they elected him to do - they didn't know before the election, and they don't now.

A triumph of absolute fuckwhitism.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: gillymor
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 06:45 PM

Racism isn't his only hobby. Trump Does Tahoe

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Jackaroodave
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 07:28 PM

Maybe, Greg, but they THOUGHT, at least, that they wanted him to build a wall separating the US and Mexico, to get rid of the Affordable Care Act, and to kill DACA.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 07:58 PM

Maybe, Greg, but they THOUGHT

They didn't fucking think, full stop. And they still don't/can't.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 08:45 PM

well I think its totally thought out.
it has said to the racist vote - you know what I really think. I can't say it in public, but that's the way I'm going to try and crumble the cookie - as much as I can.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 09:55 PM

"take them out" we can imagine what that trump comment means but it sounds like permission to ICE Police on the ground.

good one Jackaroo, Hey what is Donald's sign?...its a sign of stupidity. So you remember Walter Cronkite. The News was not exclusively infotainment back then. You saw the emergence of CNN then FOX. Now we have to navigate pages that are look alikes for Senatorial email, fake stories and real hacked stolen messaging. Just today the White House doctor released a statement about the Trump physical exam BUT if you look closely the doctor misspelled his own name. It was a white house look alike release. Fancy Bear has misled people on this forum. Who are we to trust? There are more mines than fields. I do not blame some of the usual suspects for posting links to Russian based media. I get duped to.

I was so wrong. I used to think Bush was the worst POTUS ever.
Now I think Trump is the worst US Commissar of Russian US affairs.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 01:59 AM

Eliza: "Are most Americans squirming at this appalling man's pronouncements? Or are most of them still delighted he was elected?"

Those are unfortunate words, Senoufou. Most Americans were NEVER delighted Trump was elected.

The "forty percent" that voted for him was actually a smaller number than it sounds like, given the small percentage of eligible to vote Americans that make it to the polls.

I suspect that most Americans feel about Trump and his presidency just about the same as you do. "Squirming" doesn't fit the feeling.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Jackaroodave
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 04:07 AM

"Hey what is Donald's sign?...its a sign of stupidity"

Donald and I are Gemini.

I'd like to think that this bad joke was the gods' way of maintaining the cosmic balance of light and darkness.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Iains
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 06:07 AM

I cannot see what the gripe is.His choice of words may not sit well, but there is zero confusion as to the countries he was referring to.
A more pertinent area to pick on is why these countries are so dysfunctional. It is not as though Uncle Sam has clean hands when it comes to neocolonialism and military adventurism. Libya has been transformed into a basket case and US troops are still scattered over swathes of Africa. Zimbabwe and Nigeria to name but two, are hardly bastions of democracy. Colonialism also created chaos with many artificial boundaries and the post colonial history added additional layers of suffering. The Congo, Biafran War and the abrupt withdrawal of Portugal out of Africa caused innumerable deaths. Wherever oil has been found the revenues have largely been diverted to the elite and the lot of the common man deteriorated.
Having worked all over Africa for over 30 years I can safely say that when compared to the West many of these places are shitholes. But
for the most part it was the West that created them and policies of the west do little to change this status quo.
Shithole may not be the nicest word in the dictionary but if you want to see humanity on the lowest levels of existence with starvation, disease, substandard housing and all the other negatives that this situation brings, then what other word exists to come even close to describing the situation.
It is pretty clear to me why such people want to flock to the land of milk and honey. Would you want to raise your kids in such deprivation if you had the chance to escape?
From the days of the Vietnamese boat people of the early 70's to the present North African Boat people, they all have one aim: To escape the conditions that We, the wesr, largely created.


"Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap."

We need lots more organisation on the reaping side of things. Those numerous drownings are an affront to humanity!

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Jackaroodave
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 06:38 AM

Iains, Trump has been especially criticized for his remark not just because it was foul language, but because it referred to Haiti and African nations in a policy discussion with legislators about immigration--in which he also voiced a preference for immigants from predominantly white Norway(!).

If you feel that even encouraging immigration from these countries to the US is a woefully inadequate remedy for the damage its neocolonialism has caused, and that those who profited from it should take commensurate steps to repair that damage, I agree, but I doubt that Trump or his supporters would.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Senoufou
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 06:40 AM

Ah Iains, like you I've travelled to many African countries (mainly in the West of the continent though) and while I agree that European colonisation has helped itself to their resources, it has also set up many beneficial infrastructures: railways, roads, the Port at Abidjan (designed, built and financed by the French), clinics, schools etc. There have been benefits as well.

And from my and my husband's viewpoint, the corruption BY AFRICANS has been appalling. Once countries were granted their independence, the indigenous politicians promptly set out to milk the place dry. Many of them don't even live in their own 'shit-holes' but have decamped to Europe, while keeping their fingers in the pie back home. They ignore and don't even care about the dreadful poverty they perpetrate. As long as they and their families are rich and prosperous, they're laughing.

There are faults on many sides, and yes, these places ARE shitholes. But is it wise or diplomatic for a Head of State to actually make such an insulting remark in public? Does it not shut off any possibilities for discussion, negotiation or mutual understanding? It's childish, rude and dangerous.
Please don't imagine for one moment that I can't sympathise with the poor refugees and boat people who, as you say, are desperate enough to risk their lives in flimsy boats to get to the Promised Land. It says it all about the conditions at home. I have a whole family in Ivory Coast under my and my sister's protection and help. But the answer is not to insult them. They need their evil blood-sucking ministers ousting and some kind of moral government set in place. They need Aid, and support.
Trump is a fool, a bigot, a racist, a misogynist and a dangerous loose cannon.
(Sorry this is a bit long, but Africa is close to my heart)

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Thompson
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 07:08 AM

Comes across as racist to everyone else in the world. So that's what America is like, we think.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Iains
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 08:39 AM

Jackaroodave. A preferaece for people from Norway is hardly racist. The average Norweigian is highly educated, speaks english better than most englishment and requires no learning curve to be a useful member of society. The converse side of the coin, if dealing in generalities, is that the average African immigrant(through no fault of his own) is generally poorly educated, may have medical issues,and will require a closer security vetting. It will also take longer for integration to occur. Sweeping generalities I know but that is the underlying reality.
    Attempts to cure the problems in the home countries would be a more beneficial longterm solution, but the will is not there.
    Controversy still rages over the death of UN secretary general Dag Hammarskjöld in Africa and who engineered the coup against Patrice Lumumba leader of the DRC(CIA, MI6 et al.) This is a country still being raped of it's resources. 60% of world cobalt production is from the Congo. Without it phones or electric cars dramatically curtailed.
A percentage of the mining involves the use of children that apparently is conveniently overlooked by the main users. Despite nominal Independence the major powers are still manoeuvering in many countries raping their natural resources.
We like all the latest toys but seem unwilling to accept the human cost involved in their manufacture. The ethics has to move far far beyond fair trade coffee.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Jackaroodave
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 09:38 AM

Yeah, like the Norwegians are all lining up to come over here to escape socialized medicine.

I actually knew a number of African immigrants my Japanese wife studied ESL with in Portland, Maine. As a group they were quite successful in joining and contributing to our city, as citizens, entrepreneurs, community leaders.

Of course simply by getting over here, in spite of hellish conditions and terrific obstacles, they had to be a talented and persevering bunch. Their futures seem much brighter than those of the white working class whose traditional jobs have headed south and abroad.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 10:07 AM

A 30 year career in Africa. Well... You are enlightened now. In your day I can only guess you may have served the ambition of colonial investments in oil or mining?   As you know the growing financial overlords in Africa today are the Chinese. I get the impression they are raping Africa a bit more humanely than we did but I can not be sure. Rape is still rape.

Mining and oil production is crude. No pun intended. The poor scrape for Coltan with their fingernails for borderline subsistence. This is what America does for cheap candy crush machines.


As for Trump's one trick of distract and destroy,
This week it is 'shit hole' and 5 unconstitutional issues disappear down the shit hole.
Next week it will be 'fuckwad'

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 10:23 AM

Growing up, Lumumba was a household name. Like RFK if he had lived we would not have many of the horrors we speak of. We would have different ones.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 10:26 AM

When I was at all boys grammar school 45 years ago we had a rich vocabulary of words
which have these days been quite rightly banished from enlightened discourse...

In some ways it's a bit of a shame because some of those words belonged to a tradition of inventive abuse;
..and can still raise an involuntary transgressive nostalgic chuckle when heard in ancient British TV shows and movies...

Maybe Trump is the last man alive we might ever hear saying such words in public..!!!???

Boris Johnson can be relied on for lesser non-crude archaic posh public schoolboy insults,
but Trump is the man we can hope might entertain and thrill with outbursts of long forbidden abusive sweary language...???

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Charley Noble
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 10:32 AM

Referring to African nations as "Shitholes" is not only racist but mean-spirited. The utter disdain he shows for anyone who is not in his millionaire's club is appalling. And of course the 30% of working class voters who supported him deserve to be hung out to dry.

The damage this deranged President has and will cause will live on far beyond his one term presidency.

Charlie Ipcar

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 10:39 AM

How f@cked are USA politics...????

seriously.. Oprah Winfrey..??????

How long before the Democrats start nominating comic book superheroes and animated cartoon animals...!!!???

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 11:18 AM

punkfolkrocker I thought Tony Stark the arms dealer would be a Republican fav. We had a Teflon and untouchable President how about an Iron President?

Does your Trump Hole burn? Banish the burn with Huckabee's Trump Hole Cream.
brought to you by Kellyann Conway Corp.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 11:25 AM

The extinct Norris geyser has been renamed 'Trump Hole'.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 11:31 AM

From our Brit perspective, the Republicans could nominate Harvey Weinstein and win by a landslide...!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 11:35 AM

Not just from the Brit perspective..... They'd have an even better chance if they ran Roy Moore with him as VP.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Thompson
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 11:45 AM

So Iains reckons it's not racist to refer to some countries as shitholes - because the people there do not have the expensive (socialised) education that people from wealthy Scandinavian countries do?

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: meself
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 12:09 PM

Iains' posts on this thread are what is called, 'nuanced'. They do not fall neatly into the polarised outlook.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 12:11 PM

A shithole is an objective description of a particular kind of socio-economic / cultural location.

My home town in South West England is a classic Shithole.

Are even commited left wing anti-racists not allowed to call certain locations on this planet shitholes,
for fear of risking knee-jerk accusations of racism...???

Like it or not, oversensitive to sweary words - or not,
'shithole' is a very powerful description of an intolerable place for it's inhabitants to live and grow up in.

Iains knows I am no friend or fellow traveller of his, but in this thread I commend the general intelligence and quality of his latest posts,
and wish he would maintain this standard throughout his mudcat contributions.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 12:16 PM

Well, Punk - what you need to do is view tRUMP's spew in light of past practice and in context with the rest of his spew.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 12:20 PM

ooops.. i just noticed a clumsy ambiguity in what I just posted..

Sorry, I did not mean to suggest Iains is a "commited left wing anti-racist"..

I omitted "commited left wing anti-racists, like myself and my punky enlightened peers"...

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 12:24 PM

Greg - it's a given i regard Trump as an evil arsehole [take that as my default position],
but I was only referring to Iains in this instance...

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 12:50 PM

Sorry- my mistake. Cheers!

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: peteglasgow
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 01:13 PM

maybe it just isn't reaching the news in the UK but i have no idea what the democrats there are saying - or even who leading democrats are these days. there is no point in throwing any more insults at trump - we all know what he is. but the republican party who support him? wtf are they doing, do they have no sense of decency? do they not care what happens to their country?

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: meself
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 01:56 PM

Well ... I'm afraid, for most of them, the answers are 'no' and 'no'.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Iains
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 02:04 PM

Donuel. To set the record straight I started my career with a Canadian mining company mainly prospecting in Snowdonia North Wales. I then did my serious training in the US of A in sunny Dallas, Texas, before being turned loose in SE Asia. Not colonial but neocolonial companies for the most part. For some these distinctions are important, for those unfortunates at the bottom of the heap there is little to distinuish between the two. They are still shat on big time. It is a shame that most posting here have no real appreciation of the thoroughly miserable existence of many of these people. Documentaries or a 30 second soundbite on CNN etc. cannot even begin to paint a picture of the realities and the sheer awfulness of such deprivation. The average westerner is so cocooned and pampered that their life expectancy in such an environment would probably be measured in weeks. Deli belly in the first couple of days and accelerating downhill from there onwards. No access to clean water, medicines and desperate poverty, with many suffering from malaria, in places Bilharzia and other worm infestations, desperate infant mortality numbers apart from the litter of war in places like Angola. Driving the same road for months and then to find you have been driving over mines uncovered after severe rain further hammers home the point that some places are simply horrible. To further add to the misery malnutrition is rampant and in the Sahel especially, famine is always just around the corner.
   I find it extremely worrying that modern life in the west is so reliant on a "just in time" delivery model especially as so called strategic reserves in the UK were apparently run down decades ago.
I am purposely restricting myself to Afica, recent happenings in the middle east and not so recent happenings in Indonesia are a complex tale of further misery.
The system has no resilience. I hope we never have to determine if the saying 'we are only 7 meals from anarchy' has any truth to it. Even the knowledge displayed in the TV series 'The good Life' has had another generation to decay and the accumulated wisdom of John Seymour's generation is known to a very small aged minority. If our system ever sustains a severe shock I am afraid most will become history and the survivors will give a whole new meaning to the term "sorry-arsed".

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Jackaroodave
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 02:14 PM

Pete, here's an aggregating link to a variety of responses, Democrat and Republican.

Reactions to Trump's "shithole" remarks

As you can imagine, Democratic reactions range from outrage to horror.

Some Republicans have expressed their revulsion, others have disassociated themselves without condemning the remarks, some have hedged, others have tried to play down the incident. I think the most widespread reaction is a fervent wish for it to go away.

But judge for yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 02:31 PM

From: Donuel - PM
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 05:11
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE. THIS HAS BEEN A TEST OF THE EMERGENCY BROADCAST NETWORK...IF THIS HAD BEEN AN ACTUAL APOLOGY BY TRUMP YOU WOULD BE INSTRUCTED TO TUNE TO YOUR LOCAL BROADCASTS.
"I am sorry, that remark was inappropriate, I am indeed sorry but it was accurate" IF THIS HAD BEEN AN ACTUAL APOLOGY BY TRUMP YOU WOULD BE INSTRUCTED TO TUNE TO YOUR LOCAL BROADCASTS.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Jackaroodave
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 02:57 PM

Here's a New York Times collection of various Republican responses, not as varied, but more accessible.

List of Republican responses

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 04:32 PM

Republicans are spinning the s hole remarks as salty.
How do they know?

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Senoufou
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 05:24 PM

I see that the African Union (representing all 55 countries in the continent), the UN and even the Vatican have all condemned Trump's remarks as racist and insulting etc.

I agree with Iains that most people in the West haven't a clue as to the appalling lives people in the so-called Third World lead. They aren't just poor: many are dying on their feet and suffer daily, with disease, parasites, malnutrition, disgusting water and sanitation arrangements, untreated injuries etc etc. I have seen this myself, and my husband has lived it, in his early life. But to declare they live in a shit hole is cruel, incredibly rude and very very regrettable.

As to African immigrants being problematic, in UK my husband had to jump through hoops to receive his marriage visa all those years ago.
Interestingly, where he works he has seen many young (white) people come to join their cleaning team and quit after a couple of days, saying it's too boring, too hard or they can't get up early enough to show up on time. But he has never ever let the school down, and they all absolutely treasure him (so they tell me!)

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: meself
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 06:14 PM

A person with a shred of decency would simply say, "I'm sorry; I shouldn't have said that."

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 07:40 PM

Simply put..

I'd suggest "shithole" is an objective robust descriptive word..

unless mouthed as a sneering perjorative term by a rich white racist fukwit...

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 07:59 PM

Dunno if it's been said here already, but the issue here is not the crudity. It's the racism it was used to express, and the policies flowing from that which exemplify Systemic Racism.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Jackaroodave
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 08:22 PM

"Dunno if it's been said here already, but the issue here is not the crudity. It's the racism it was used to express, and the policies flowing from that which exemplify Systemic Racism."

It's been in the background but insufficiently stressed, I feel, that Trump was employing this language in suggesting a return to US 1920-1965 policies limiting immigration essentially to northern Europeans (70% from England, Ireland, and Germany alone).

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Iains
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 03:58 AM

A view from the trenches:


https://www.blacklistednews.com/Trump_and_his_sh%2Athole_remark%3A_the_story_nobody_is_talking_about/62931/0/38/38/Y/M.html

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Stu
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 04:51 AM

So Iains post above is part of the reason why I haven't posted to Mudcat for the last few weeks. The link in Iain's post is to an article on a right-wing website, written by a man called John Rappoport, a right-wing conspiracy theorist wanker who posts all sort of idiotic nonsense on his website: https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2018/01/13/trump-and-his-shthole-remark-the-story-nobody-is-talking-about/

Iain's article is as foul a piece of racism and misrepresentation as it's possible to get; the sort of vicious, spiteful bile that fans the flames of hatred and promotes the agenda of those who wish rule based on their twisted beliefs about race and the innate superiority of themselves and the pedlars of this inaccurate nastiness, the likes of Farage and Trump. These people are just nasty. Iains is a nasty piece of work.

In recent months this forum has increasingly given voice to the likes of Iain's, they have free reign to peddle this filth without challenge from the mods. This is of course the way that society is going, but letting this sort of link be posted is not only unacceptable, it shows how far standards have fallen on Mudcat. There is no debate anymore, only an echo chamber for those provoked into apoplectic anger by the likes of Iains, who obviously gets his yah-yahs from raging people up.

It's wearing to be exposed to the likes if Iains and his ilk; their wilful and vicious provocations make every thread a war zone, rob any nuance from the discussion and encourage fractiousness and anxiety. I'm done with this shit, I don't want to spend my time with racists c*nts like Iains, and if the mods had any mettle they'd ban his sort from the forum for posting this crap. They're turning the world into a shithole of their making, and trying to drag us all down . The fact Iains et al can link to appalling, nasty and inaccurate crap like that without fear of being sanctioned tells us everything we need to know about how their plan is working.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Iains
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 05:55 AM

I suppose you would regard "calling a spade a spade" a racist statement.
Your problem is you live in a cocoon, carefully fed a massaged narrative concerning events outside your own country.
Get out, travel around and give me a synonym for shithole that does not upset your sensibilities.
You are a prime example of a snowflake isolated from reality in your comfortable western lifestyle. No doubt you would be the first to whine should your local supermarket run out of basics. Go take a hike for a few months around a third world country where corpses may lie by the side of the road for days, go see firsthand what is being discussed, go look at all the young kids with no future, eyes crawling with flies, dressed in rags,if anything at all and wondering if they will eat anything that day. Go inspect the slums created by people forced from the land, go look at a river where they take water for drinking, wash clothes and defecate all within a stones throw of one another.
   I suspect you only read the opening and carefully ignored all the negative prefixes. It seems a pretty accurate summary to me.
What firsthand experience do you have?
Seems to me it paints a reasonably accurate portrayal of those unfortunates at the bottom of the heap. I think it could go a lot further on the politics of how the present situation arose in these countries but in many cases this would mean accepting that westerners(mainly CIA) have engineered regime change here there and everywhere. These changes have been largely to benefit globalism, increase big business profits all at the expense of the little people. Of course watching TV, driving around, using the latest electronic gadgets has nothing to do with the sorry situation in countries thousands of miles away has it. The fact that you pay a diminished price for these western toys at the expense of others peoples quality of life, if not literally their lives in some cases, is of no concern to you. You are happy to accept all the benefits but have no concept of the consequences and zero conscience. You need to wise up to this interconnected world.
Your actions have consequences!

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Senoufou
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 06:12 AM

Well said Iains.
Unless one has travelled and seen for oneself the deprivation in, say, Africa, one can't comment on what sort of countries are found there.
Iains has had much experience, and to my mind is NOT racist. On the contrary, he comes across as compassionate and pitying of the sufferers he has seen.

But I do agree that 'discussions' on here sometimes descend to terrible rudeness, name-calling and vituperous nastiness. That's why I retreated for a time, as it was very upsetting. I'm now back and trying to skirt round any of this, but here I go, wading in again. I'm going to get a tin hat and wear it when posting on Mudcat...

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Stu
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 07:31 AM

:Your problem is you live in a cocoon, carefully fed a massaged narrative concerning events outside your own count"

You know nothing about me, don't know where I've been or what I've seen.

I know I've spent 18 years on this forum and know a troll when I see one, and you are one Iains. Not since Martin Gibson has there been such a shameless poltroon. You post that crap to justify racism and then feign sophistication and insight when called out on it. You're talking shit and can't disguise that, you posted nastiness disguised and you are still talking it up.


"Unless one has travelled and seen for oneself the deprivation in, say, Africa, one can't comment on what sort of countries are found there."

Ridiculous argument; you have to have been to Mars to comment on the chemical composition of the Martian soil? Have to have travelled to the Mesozoic to be able to comment on the skin colouration of a dinosaur? The only way to be able to review and interpret evidence is to gather it first hand? You live by that rule do you? How the fuck do you know the moon isn't made of cheese?

The countries Trump insulted are full of wonderful, resourceful and intelligent people who are forging a new future out from under the colonial jackboot; the same jackboot that produces the sort of shite that Rappoport wrote in Iain's link, poorly constructed posts reeking of condescension and white superiority. The very idea that some idiot right-wing journo in the US understands the needs of the people in these countries and is telling them in such a manner is staggeringly arrogant; that's white entitlement right there. Of course there are massive problems, but saying these countries are shitholes and then supporting that is disingenuous, insulting, ignorant and racist. I'll take my cue from those Trump and Iains insult, as the people from those countries are not so chuffed to hear them described as shitholes. Read the article again. Understand the subtext.

Let these people win or thunder against them. Support posts linking to that sort of nastiness and you become part of the problem, abandoning reason and decency to kowtow to someone who only wants to drive division and hatred.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Senoufou
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 08:45 AM

No, Stu, one doesn't HAVE to have visited these countries, but if one HAS, surely one is in a better position to understand them and to express opinions about them?
I am well aware thank you that African countries have 'wonderful, resourceful and intelligent people' - I am married to one of them.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Jackaroodave
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 08:57 AM

Ians, I'm sorry, but I can't quite follow your reasoning: You seem to feel that if we leftist snowflakes were exposed to the massive suffering in Africa and Asia, and if we realized it was the product of global turbocapitalism, facilitated by CIA assassinations and the like, the scales would fall from our eyes and we would embrace the right-wing position of yourself and Jon Rappoport.

Frankly, this does not seem likely: There must be some missing steps that people can mentally supply who are familiar with your arguments. I'm not, so help me out here.

As I read the Rappoport piece, one point struck me as anomalous. He addresses the suffering Africans thus:

"You do care about medical teams that sweep through the neighborhood and vaccinate everyone, because you?ve seen adults and children die after the shots."

Looking around, I find that Rappoport believes, among other interesting things, that diseases are caused not by germs, but instead--not in addition--by the inability of a weakened body to resist them. In particular, AIDS is not caused by HIV, but rather by "viral inhibitors like AZT."

Is this part of the overall program as well?

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 09:00 AM

Stu and Iains, I suspect you have both been fooled by a website carefully designed to make you both react the way you have, but for different reasons !

Stu you are correct I do not know anything about you. A human bio would aid in that. That goes for Iains too.

Iains, you have been traumatized in ways no one in England and USA have. Of course we have been traumatized in different ways in our respective countries. If you say 'I am not a racist but'..."the bodies are not picked up for days", you might sound racist .
In the US, when the police kill and the bodies are not picked up for hours, there are riots. My point is your trauma leads you to think others have not had similar experiences to you. Maybe we are under informed, but if you fall for blacklisted news, so are you.

Stu your point is well taken but despite your objections a free flow of information is better than censorship that confuses and obfuscates facts further.

On his birthday try speaking to each other in terms MLK would understand.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 10:26 AM

I don't read Iain's & other similar mudcatter's links...

It's that simple and easy...

I refuse to add to the click count of what are 99% certain to be far right 'news' and 'research' websites...

But I still prefer how Iains is participating in this thread over his more usual combative abusive posts...

..though he is starting to lapse into his limited vocab arsenal.. eg "snowflakes"...

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 12:30 PM

Well, when the site is Russian made and financed it isn't exactly a right wing website is it. It is a psycho-social discord machine.

As a hypnotist it became my mission to prevent people, on my own, from falling for this gobbledygook from both sides all through the cold war. It is the same old technique using new technology today. Perhaps clear insight can not be taught.

'They'
They like the sting
They believe rot that makes truth spoil
and lies that makes their red blood boil.
They're not listening,
they're not listening still.
I guess they never will

"The Lomax Bros."

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 02:00 PM

It's a psycho-social discord machine operating in aid of right-wing fuckwitism.

When did the KGB become champions of freedom * democracy (unless you're tRUMP?)

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Iains
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 03:48 PM

" If you say 'I am not a racist but'..."the bodies are not picked up for days", you might sound racist .
In the US, when the police kill and the bodies are not picked up for hours, there are riots."

This rather shows the difference between Africa and the US. Stating the reality is hardly racist. It is a different world in places. The story was: touch the body and it is your responsibility and COST. Harsh but that is the way it goes. apocryphal? I do not know.
Life and corpses are regarded differently elsewhere. A true story.
I was on a boat in Indonesian waters and we found a corpse floating in the water. Eyes were pecked out,it was bloated, had been dead a while.
We radioed an Indonesian naval vessel expecting them to fish it out of the water. As they came close they revved up clean over the body and turned it into instant fishbait. I don't recall anyone rioting over that event!

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Iains
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 04:02 PM

Jackaroodave. The two medical items you highlight I share your reservations.
To respond to your initial question is more straightforward. The situation in Africa is what it is. The statistics for poverty stricken countries are that out of 50, 34 are in Africa. The explanation I gave for this was pretty much a gross simplification referring to essentially post WW2. Since this time it is hard to pinpoint an African country that has not had dislocations by war or regime change in addition to the traumas of decolonisation. You can either accept that as a statement or refute it. How you make the jump from outlining cause and effect to a given political stance escapes me. There are a multitude of reasons to explain why so many African countries are dysfunctional the paper outlined some of them.
Like any other country all African countries have an educated elite, but in the case of Africa the numbers are very small and hardly egalitarian, and they inevitably are the most mobile.
   Unlike some I do not care what sources I use for information,I will even scroll through rumour mill news, not because I believe a fraction of what is there but because there are sometimes little nuggets that are inserted (?) that give a rather different perspective on certain events. Such items force one to question the accepted narrative and in these latter days of spin that is no bad thing. I had the advantage of a career that took me to five continents and 40+ countries and much of the time this involved travel into the boonies. Inevitably this brought me to sights and events that others have to rely on reporters for. You see it first hand and inevitably it has an impact on you, especially sick children or children with missing limbs and not a hope in hell of obtaining prosthetics.

I do not care if a source of information comes from the extreme left or far right. If the content bears up to scrutiny and is at least supported in the main by other sources I will often accept the gist of what is being said.
In the case of the link I gave, it was the result of a brief internet search on African poverty and deprivation. What it had to say largely supported my own view. I do not necessarily support all the content blindly there may be one or two points I disagree with. However if linking to a site you have it in its entirety you cannot censor the odd phrase that does not fit with your perceptions. To generate the main thesis by myself would take too much time and too much space. That is why I use links. It seems too easy on this forum to go out and massacre the messenger because it then absolves you from reading the message.
I could discount much content of the New York Times or CNN if I went down that road.
    Sadly in this day and age there is no such beast as a provider of unbiased news. I suspect such an animal probably never existed, the author inevitably provides content tinted by his own perceptions that may be right or may be wrong. Today such content goes through further editing, massaging,censorship. Having been on the ground in places where events have happened my own view has an entirely different slant compared to that being reported by the MSM. Today the MSM and governments exert more control than perhaps most realize. This is something of a digression but calling someone a snowflake is small beer compared to be labelled racist for outlining what is essentially the truth. It seems the included warts do not sit well with some.
We are still faced with the fact that as yet no one has coined a replacement for shithole, Disfunctional hardly starts to describe it.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 05:53 PM

"I do not care" is not a defense, it is a failing.


Trump hotel had the words shit hole projected upon it.
Trump did call the White House a shit hole so he spends his time at MERDE LAGO to enjoy some holes.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Mr Red
Date: 15 Jan 18 - 06:37 AM

A more pertinent area to pick on is why these countries are so dysfunctional. Many reasons, some historical. Some despotic, how Trumpish!

You are either part of the solution or part of the problem.

Doing nothing puts you, on the spectrum, more towards the latter. Trump is firmly at that end.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Iains
Date: 15 Jan 18 - 08:24 AM

"You are either part of the solution or part of the problem"
Quite right you are.
Now what do you propose to do about it? I presume you put yourself at the Trump end also.

It takes a zero skill set to make clever remarks. Proposing any sort of sensible solution is considerably more demanding.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Jan 18 - 08:40 AM

"You are either part of the solution or part of the problem"

I'm not too keen on that one either.. too glib and simplistic..

..and just as hectoring & self rightiously antagonistic as..

" If you're not with us you're against us"

There are surely more positive and constructive ways of inspiring ordinary uninvolved folks to think intelligently about serious issues...???

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Jan 18 - 09:38 AM

Censure, removal by 25th amendment, impeachment, prosecution.
These are the legal solutions. What do you have?
Vichy Republicans are obstructing these solutions. Could they possibly be waiting for martyr status for political advantage?

There is audio proof Trump has made multiple phone calls to brag about his shit hole comments being popular with his base.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Jan 18 - 09:41 AM

Nice cartoon in this mornings paper shows Trump's "shitholes" with little flans placed over them next them reading "shithole" next to Trump with a similar flag over his own head
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Lighter
Date: 15 Jan 18 - 10:24 AM

Los Angeles Times:

"African immigrants are more educated than most - including people born in the U.S."

http://www.latimes.com/world/africa/la-fg-global-african-immigrants-explainer-20180112-story.html

So that settles that.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Iains
Date: 15 Jan 18 - 04:35 PM

Not only Trump that has an unsavoury turn of phrase! :

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/04/29/politicians.swear.list/index.html


http://www.nbc12.com/story/19919569/top-profanity-in-potus-history

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Jan 18 - 04:50 PM

That response is called a "so, what about.."
It changes the subject and works on people attracted to shiny objects.
RT and FOX loves using that one.

Newsmax and National Enquirer are also financed by Russia at its foundation.

You can even involve the NYT with 'what aboutism' techniques as you just did with CNN etc.

Are you a 'natural' or does RUSSIA PAY YOU ';^/

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Iains
Date: 15 Jan 18 - 05:55 PM

Well you finally posted a construction I can understand. Your interpretation is batshit crazy of course But with your fixation on
supposed shortcomings of the President the result is hardly surprising.
I do believe you are using the same alleged "distraction bullshit" discussing Newsmax and the National Enquirer. I prefer RT. There I can get the news from the horses mouth. With CNN I fear much of the time it comes from the horses ass.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Jan 18 - 06:04 PM

supposed shortcomings of the President

SUPPOSED shortcomings of President Shithole?

What goddamn universe do you inhabit, Inanes? Or are you simply an uneducated idiot like the POSOTUS?

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: robomatic
Date: 15 Jan 18 - 07:16 PM

"Now I know how many holes it takes to fill The Albert Hall!"

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Jan 18 - 08:38 PM

"I love RT"

I told you all he would.

btw
that's what happens when stuff goes over your head
I do not denigrate anyone who doesn't get it. It would not be fair.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Mr Red
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 04:32 AM

I presume you put yourself at the Trump end also

It is amazing that some people can have a mindset that allows them to think being provocative is actually doing something and thus curiously divorces them, in their mind, from being tarred with their own brush. Despite their logic being clearly fallacious in the first place.

Life ain't binary - it has many spectra, as indicated, and interstitial positions therewith.

don't bother trying to wind me up, I just laugh at such desperately feeble attempts

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Iains
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 04:37 AM

Try again in english mr red.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 05:07 AM

"Try again in english mr red."
Perfectly understandable to all other than idiots who would avoid what is being said Iaians
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 06:22 AM

Mr. Red, or is it Senator Red, life for Trump is clearly binary.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Iains
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 08:44 AM

Has little jimmy popped up to contribute to the discussion. or simply shit stir as usual.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 09:19 AM

haha a British trump wanna be. Some folks used to act like Napoleon.
Now its a cray cray donald

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: gillymor
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 09:23 AM

You've got him pegged, Mr. Red.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Mr Red
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 05:59 PM

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: robomatic
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 08:52 PM

Trump is both a symptom and a diversion. Whether or not he himself is a racist is both doubtful and irrelevant.
What is more to the point is the enormous amount of time and energy spent on the issue which has taken the place of world affairs, world energy, world collapse, and world economy.
He is simply a gross national product.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Mr Red
Date: 18 Jan 18 - 11:18 AM

whatever he has said or done, or says he has said or done, or we think he has said or done - our perception is about to be written in stone.

donald-trump-fire-and-fury-tv-series

And I would bet it won't loose money on the production. I would bet - but are there any takers on the wager?

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Jan 18 - 11:44 AM

"Has little jimmy popped up to contribute to the discussion. or simply shit stir as usual."
Mudcat's own Trump

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Jan 18 - 12:08 PM


donald-trump-fire-and-fury-tv-series

With any luck, they can get Trump to play Trump- he's a past master at TV bullshit.

as for losing money, I would refer you to H. L. Memcken:

"No one in this world, so far as I know — and I have researched the records for years, and employed agents to help me — has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby."

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: robomatic
Date: 19 Jan 18 - 02:08 AM

Might make more voters for Trump

Knee jerks are the wrong way to 'take a knee'.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jan 18 - 07:20 AM

3 types of CEO's

delegator
hands on
chaos; charm and harm

Which is Trump?

Example: meet with bipartisan group, praise and agree with everyone.
Then on the next meeting blow up, intimidate and bully, setting everyone back on their heels.

Shut down the USA? Why not, he promised to do so last year.
It is worse than people think.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Raggytash
Date: 19 Jan 18 - 07:41 AM

Todays Guardian gives an article from the European perspective. I think a most telling paragraph which applies to some on this site is:

"Much like Donald Trump, the Brexiteers have proven themselves immune to information or insight that does not meet their emotional needs. This must be why they continue to hope and insist that in order to avoid this proliferation of new barriers to trade, the EU will relent and allow Britain to have its cake and eat it – to forget about the obligations of EU membership while continuing to enjoy its many advantages.

This simply will not happen"

The remainder of the article can be found here.
Link

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Jan 18 - 01:16 PM

Hey.. let's all leave horrid EU domination and freedom of movement..
then build a ridiculously expensive bridge to give better permanent travel access, joining us together forever...!!!??????????????????????????...

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Senoufou
Date: 19 Jan 18 - 01:24 PM

Boris Johnson is as mad as a box of frogs. People used to find him amusing and rather endearing, but he's getting to be a blooming liability. Bridge indeed! What a clown!

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Jan 18 - 01:30 PM

then build a ridiculously expensive bridge to give better permanent travel access

You've got the Chunnel - what more do you need? Long as you make it only one way - headed East.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Senoufou
Date: 19 Jan 18 - 01:40 PM

In any case, the huge amount of shipping in the Channel would preclude the siting of a bridge. And imagine the closures during gales and storms. Chaos.
Wasn't it Boris who wanted a massive floating London Airport to be constructed in the Thames Estuary? He's totally bonkers.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Jan 18 - 01:44 PM

Is the jury still out on whether he really seriously wanted to leave Europe at all...???

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Mr Red
Date: 21 Jan 18 - 06:49 AM

Yes.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Jan 18 - 08:33 AM

Hundreds of thousands of women take to the streets against Trump
JUST IN TIME to make a few bob!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Iains
Date: 22 Jan 18 - 05:32 AM

An interesting link that lays out some rather brutal facts. Some of the detail I have issues with, a part presents a reality some may find hard to accept.
I think the author's one year exposure a little short to come to such conclusions-However!
The article does highlight a cultural gulf between some African cultures and western ones. I believe other details could have been used to highlight these differences.
I emphasize again parts of the article I have issues with and I find some parts exaggerate and other parts reprehensible.

But it is one view from the trenches, so to speak. I would have liked to have found another link to support a less extreme view, or closer to my own thoughts.

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2018/01/what_i_learned_in_peace_corps_in_africa_trump_is_right.html

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Senoufou
Date: 22 Jan 18 - 08:24 AM

Iains, that account is fascinating and true, and one cannot deny it. I know Senegal extremely well, and have travelled all over the country, in small villages and in Dakar (the capital) Not all Senegalese are Muslim though. Most of the Serer tribe (Senegal and Gambia) are Roman Catholic for example. I have seen the terrible lack of hygiene standards all over West Africa. And the culture (as the informant points out) is completely different to ours in the developed countries.
It does shock one at first, I agree.

BUT - I disagree that 'these people' cannot adapt as immigrants. I know many Africans here in UK who have successfully made the transition and are now useful and worthy citizens. I could name people I know from Congo, Senegal, Gambia, Nigeria, Zimbabwe, Kenya, Mali and of course my dear husband from Ivory Coast who are now British Citizens and work hard in their various areas of employment. They certainly don't defecate in the street!

It could also be pointed out that our much-revered 'civilised' culture has its drawbacks. No old person in Africa is left alone for days on end staring at the TV. Old people's 'homes' are unheard of. Women with young children help each other out and no mum is isolated at home
feeling lonely and overwhelmed. Sick or disabled folk are lovingly tended. One has respect for one's elders, and children are well-behaved and obedient.

People transitioning from one culture to another are bound to find it hard at first. But given time, they do adapt. This works both ways. I had to accustom myself to what I saw in Africa, but in time I decided that people are people, and all have potential for change and advancement.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Iains
Date: 22 Jan 18 - 09:55 AM

Senoufou. I am glad that you gave some input to my post. Although I have spent a lot of time in various parts of Africa I have always been shielded from the more "intricate" realities of life in villages. I have always seen it on the basis of passing through innumerable times rather than experiencing it first hand as you have.
There are positives as well as negatives, as you rightly point out, and
your statement on integration is absolutely correct." People transitioning from one culture to another are bound to find it hard at first. But given time, they do adapt."
      We may think our western way of life superior, but that does not mean that African society has nothing to teach us.
They can easily learn to live like us, not so many of us could learn to live like them. Our life style is also far,far less resilient than theirs. There but for fortune...............!

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Greg F.
Date: 22 Jan 18 - 10:24 AM

Inanes, while it may contain a smattering of fact, the only real shit in your link is Karin McQuillan's article itself.

Have you checked out some of her other sterling productions in the "Amerikan Stinker", to whiot this amall sample:

*Note to NeverTrumps: Trump's Character Is Admirable,
*Racist Obama Caused Dems' Downfall, Not Hillary
*The Muslim Face of the New Democratic Party
*Why Dems Try to Break Black Hearts and Only Trump Can Fix It
*& etc, etc.

Please.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Iains
Date: 22 Jan 18 - 11:09 AM

Greg you like many on here like to judge a book by it's cover.
It betrays a shallowness of thinking to my mind.

It is content that is crucial, not the who, what, when, where, why of the author.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Greg F.
Date: 22 Jan 18 - 12:00 PM

Absolutely, Inanes. And a good deal of that the content is shit and slanted, biased shit at that, a judgement supported in part by her past practice & other examples of her shoddy work.

Do read those other articles.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Iains
Date: 22 Jan 18 - 12:45 PM

Greg you have first hand experience in the field to back up your sweeping statements I presume.
Do tell!

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Senoufou
Date: 22 Jan 18 - 12:55 PM

His name is Iains not Inanes, don't be so rude and childish.

And how many times have you visited Senegal Greg? Or come to that, any West African country? I can say truthfully that I probably have more experience of life in Africa than anyone on Mudcat (except perhaps Mrrzy, who has lived in Abidjan, Cote d'Ivoire, and of course Iains) And I can state that the article describes accurately life in Senegal, more the rural areas than Dakar, where nowadays most folk have TV and even access to the internet. I've stayed in small villages in Casamance (Djouloulou, Kafontine, Abene for example) Ziguinchor (main town in Casamance) was more developed, but there was still terrible poverty to be seen there.

The writer was naturally very shocked at what she saw, and it can be hard at first to take in the things one encounters. I believe her account. Which parts do you question?

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Greg F.
Date: 22 Jan 18 - 02:11 PM

Experience to back up my conclusions, Inanes? Physician, heal thyself dude.

Its not her account, Sen. Its her alt-right generated BS conclusions. As for Inanes, I'm sure he's capable of speaking for himself, even if apparently unwilling...

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Iains
Date: 22 Jan 18 - 03:34 PM

Greg I could not care less what else she may have authored. There is only one article under discussion and you clearly only wish to demonstrate your extreme bigotry yet again. You very clearly demonstrate you only wish to make a political point and have zero understanding of the subject matter.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Jan 18 - 04:17 PM

BEWARE

Polarizing disruptive fake news propaganda is at work. Operatives would want you to limit your focus to believe the controversy.

Will you let them? An article called American thinking has no thinking americans.

Earth to mudcatters, com'on man.
Ever use a smell test
or consider the source.
Weaponized polarizing social media is getting more refined but really...

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Senoufou
Date: 22 Jan 18 - 04:34 PM

It doesn't matter if Little Noddy or the Tooth Fairy wrote the blooming article! We're considering, surely, its relevance to Trump's remarks about 'shit holes' and whether African people are capable of taking up a new life in the West.

I can see from reading it that the person, whoever they are, has indeed spent a significant amount of time in Senegal, and what they describe rings true to me.

The gist is, can folk from such underprivileged, poverty-stricken and vastly alien cultures adapt and contribute to Western life?
And I say they can, and have done, in spite of Trump's apparent opinion that it would be like expecting a duck to play the violin.

I know only too well there are many awful aspects of basic African culture. FGM is appalling (most of my husband's female relatives have suffered this) and though banned now in theory, it still takes place in secret. Treatment of women and lack of women's rights is another stumbling block. Ignorance of health matters and poor educational standards are lamentable. Family obligations can be financially depleting. And so on...
But all the African people I know who have successfully emigrated to UK have made wonderful and commendable strides in understanding and embracing our fortunate existence.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Iains
Date: 23 Jan 18 - 04:14 AM

"
It doesn't matter if Little Noddy or the Tooth Fairy wrote the blooming article! We're considering, surely, its relevance"

AMEN to THAT!

There is/are a rather large number of posters here that look at the medium reporting, label it left or right and promptly condemn the content.
Stupidity comes in many forms.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Jan 18 - 04:31 AM

" label it left or right and promptly condemn the content.
Pretty fair description of your own attitude to the Guardian - you have names for it and other publications you find unconfortable, do you not, begins with L, I seem to remember
As you say, "Stupidity comes in many forms." as does hypocrisy and dishonesty
Jim Caarroll

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Senoufou
Date: 23 Jan 18 - 05:50 AM

At the risk of boring everyone shitless, here's a nice list of all the Africans we know and what they're doing now:-

Kenyan - works on Fresh Produce department at Tesco
Tanzanian - has his own hairdressing business
Gambian - security guard
Nigerian - ditto
Zimbabwean - assistant in John Lewis' men's tailoring department and has now started his own business
Burkina Faso lady - checkout at Tesco
Ghanaian lady -    ditto
Malian - student at UEA
Congolese - two chaps, work in Bernard Matthews
Angolan - works in fresh fish department in Tesco

All these people have successfully made a new life here in UK and are contributing to society, working and paying taxes (apart from the student of course)
None of them have unpleasant habits, cause problems at work or refuse to integrate. They're all lovely people.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Iains
Date: 23 Jan 18 - 09:34 AM

Senoufou I find all your contributions sensible.

I have found that it does not matter if you are talking to Kurd in Syria, or a Malaysian or Indonesian in the middle of Borneo, or anyone anywhere else. We are all the same and by far the greatest number share a very similar, if not identical outlook on life.

   One other fact that becomes ever more apparent on Mudcat is that propaganda has a stunning success rate. It would seem the more blatant the lie the broader the church it gathers. It would appear that anything on CNN or in the NYT is automatically given the status of holy writ on this forum. It is a strange religion they follow like little sheep, with never a thought given to quesioning the "accepted wisdom".   Very dangerous and they are all so convinced they are right.


Jim the guardian is so full of its own superiority and self importance that it lends itself to being sniped at.(and the reactions of those that regard it as a bible are just so predictable) I have no problem with the news items as such, that they report. I frequently have a severe problem with their selectivity and interpretation of events. Their editorials are frequently massaged by input from a socialist la la land.
I actually start my day looking at the mail, guardian and RT before I move on to other sites. The BBC I have largely given up on, and anything with a paywall will make zilch from me.

Question everything and believe nothing is a far more sensible approach in this day and age.

Subject: RE: BS: Foul Mouthed trump!
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Jan 18 - 12:12 PM

Perhaps people like me accept that exploitation is a given regarding African poverty. Trump racism is the engineered justification to plunder and exploit.

The decision to feed the trolls is your own.