Review: Celtic Connections

Subject: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 04 Feb 18 - 06:07 PM

Did anyone watch Celtic Connections on BBC 2 Saturday night?
It was appalling, a full orchestra, half a dozen highland pipers, a chap gibbering into a telephone, and another rowing a pretend boat across the stage ....all to an audience of hundreds.
What has this shite to do with traditional or even "Celtic" music I ask myself?
It took pretentiousness to a new level and must have been an utter embarrassment to any folkies unfortunate enough to have stumbled upon it.    So this is the "new wave", the produce of the folk academies?
God preserve us. I had to turn the cacophony off gave it ten minutes and turned it back on......the tuneless din continued only louder.

What are these people about? CC is supposed to be the showcase of Scottish music......they are making Scotland a laughing stock.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 05 Feb 18 - 11:44 AM

Ake
"What are these people about? CC is supposed to be the showcase of Scottish music......they are making Scotland a laughing stock."

Where did you get that idea , have you read the nationalities of the official performers ... like the Edinburgh Festival its the "Fringe" ( and don mean Dt's hairstyle) that's the folky side

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 05 Feb 18 - 12:38 PM

Unfortunately I missed it but I gather what akenaton describes is probably the Grit Orchestra's interpretation of the Martyn Bennett work 'Botthy Culture'. Martyn's work was truly original and groundbreaking and last year's orchestral performance of his 'Grit' was superb. It is tragic that his life was cut short as I am sure he would have continued to innovate and bring joy to the lives of those of us who don't want folk music preserved in aspic

As I say I didn't see the concert but I hope to if I can get it on iplayer here in England and I suspect I shall I enjoy it but I will reserve judgement

Celtic Connections isn't just a showcase of Scottish music 'Glasgow’s annual folk, roots and world music festival, Celtic Connections celebrates Celtic music and its connections to cultures across the globe'. I haven't been lucky enough to attend yet but I hope to at some point and its very diversity is the main attraction for me and I suspect many others who do attend

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Feb 18 - 01:24 PM

Come on lads it was terrible, and I couldn't see any links to other cultures in the parts that I viewed.
It bore no relation whatsoever to folk music other than the pipers who seemed to be playing jazz o the highland pipes.
The overall sound was excruciating......torture.
I've been to several CC's and enjoyed them, usually try to see June Tabor.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST,IanA
Date: 05 Feb 18 - 01:55 PM

I can't say that I enjoyed it. Full orchestral brass section, contra bassoon, (contra bassoon????) harpsichord (inaudible) and sundry other oddities. Perhaps it was a Celtic contra bassoon. So much effort to so little effect. I longed for a still, small voice...

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 05 Feb 18 - 01:59 PM

The reference I made regarding 'links to other cultures' was in response to the comments that CC was a showcase of Scottish music and that artists were invited were from a range of countries. It was not related to that particular performance

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 05 Feb 18 - 02:23 PM

I suppose what makes it to television is the most bombastic, spectacular, lowest common denominator stuff, but that doesn't truly reflect all that happens at the festival. There is a lot of quality music to be heard on the ground. However, the festival definitely has changed over the years. There's definitely less of a focus on actual traditional music and song than there was even a decade ago.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 05 Feb 18 - 03:18 PM

All the more reason to go in my view :-) I like trad when it is played well but there is room for all types of music in a festival - especially one this long!

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 05 Feb 18 - 03:22 PM

I can't imagine why anyone would insult the memory of Martyn Bennett by describing his music as 'lowest common denominator'. He was widely regarded as one of the key figures in Scottish music of recent years and his CDs are a great legacy.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST,Captain Swing
Date: 05 Feb 18 - 03:23 PM

Scotland, unlike the rest of the UK, actively promotes its traditional music and the new music that comes from those roots. CC is a superb festival that celebrates the fruits of the journey that Scottish music has made around the globe. In some cases the music has changed more than in other cases - that's what a tradition does. Those variations and developments will sometimes be contentious - that's a good thing, promotes discussion, interest, criticism.

I'd rather hear the music developing and being played and encouraged than, as in much of the rest of the UK, it being the preserve of a relatively small group of ageing people.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 05 Feb 18 - 03:39 PM

Agree with all of that Captain but I would argue that things are moving in the right direction in the rest of mainland UK with people like Jim Moray, Jon Boden, 9 Bach etc reinvigorating the music and bringing in new listeners and performers. I can't comment on Northern Ireland as I don't know enough about the music scene there

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST,akenaton^
Date: 05 Feb 18 - 03:47 PM

Did anybody have the stomach to watch and listen to it right through?
Honestly?
"I'd rather hear the music developing and being played and encouraged than, as in much of the rest of the UK, it being the preserve of a relatively small group of ageing people"
That's pretty insulting to older people, do you think we have no taste? We have all lived through the revival and seen the music change, quite happy to go along with the singer/songwriter phase, unhappy about the demise of chorus singing......and trad singing in general.....but this is something else, I am reminded of the "Emperors new Clothes".......Anti-Music?....Fake Music??

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 05 Feb 18 - 03:51 PM

It would be useful if those criticising this performance listened to the original CD on which this music is based. Have a listen and tell us what you think. Also have a listen to Bennett's masterpiece Grit - probably the most innovative work to come out of Scotland

I am not sure if I can access the programme of the orchestral version but I'll have another look. Certainly last year's performance by the same orchestra was superb

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST,Captain Swing
Date: 05 Feb 18 - 04:02 PM

Guest 03.45: As an older person myself (62) I don't find my comment insulting. It's simply a fact.

Like or dislike the stuff that's presented at CC (and I don't like it all by any means), it cannot be labelled "fake', anti-music etc - the quality of music and musicianship is superb and matched by their passion and respect for the traditions.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 05 Feb 18 - 04:14 PM

Absolutely correct. Because someone doesn't like a particular type of music doesn't mean it is bad it just means they don't like it. I don't like Wagner's opera, Mozart or Drum&Bass but that doesn't make them inferior to the music I do like

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Feb 18 - 06:13 PM

That's right Joe G. I really can't abide most of the work that Queen produced but I can't deny that it was also excellent work. As musicians they were far more proficient than, say, the Stones or the Beatles and Freddie Mercury was a magnificent singer.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: Gallus Moll
Date: 05 Feb 18 - 06:34 PM

How I wish I'd made it to the Bothy Culture concert!
Greg Lawson is an absolute genius to have been able to interpret and orchestrate Martyn Bennet's studio-produced... techno? dance? don't know what it's called ... compositions for a huge group/orchestra of mainly of not all folk/trad muscians and singers - plus Danny McAskill!! and another cyclists, also the amazing (trapeze?) artistes -- Grit was incredible, memorable -- but Bothy Culture surpassed it!   
Ake -- - like you my preference is traditional singing, but remember - Martyn grew up in that culture, his mother is Margaret Bennet, Gaelic singer, historian, academic, colleague of Hamish Henderson. I remember Martyn as a young lad stunning us all with his piping at a concert in George Square Theatre, Edinburgh. He was steeped in tradition - he was also a talented musician and filled with incredible ideas and experiences - - he achieved so much in his short life, cancer took him just short of his 34th birthday, But his legacy, his vision, his marrying of cultures- -
If you open your mind and really hear what he has woven into the tapestry of his compositions, there are fragments of traditional singers - including his mother. There are hints of ancient pipe and fiddle tunes...there's bird song, weather......I am no musical expert, I canny read manuscript -- but I listen and I hear, I can become lost in the music or the song- - - did you not wait long enough to hear Fiona Hunter?!
Perhaps it is best to be at a live performance? But - give Grit an chance, then try Bothy Culture again.
And please respect the unique Greg Lawson -- -

Also - just cos you dinna like / un'erstaun' it disnae mean iverybiddy else disnae - -- !!!
May no' hiv been tae yer taste, but certainly wis tae mine!

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST,Sol
Date: 05 Feb 18 - 08:59 PM

Bottom line: each to his own. End of.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Feb 18 - 03:46 AM

Whatever it was, it certainly was not the "music of the people", rather "music" of a pseudo artistic elite(sorry Gallus, you are always an exception :0)).

I only watched four small sections, but in all honestly I did not find it uplifting, or even tuneful. I don't think I could have managed to sit through the whole performance.....and that is what it was, a pretentious homage to the people who have hijacked folk music.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 06 Feb 18 - 04:21 AM

It depends what you call music of the people. I dare say Martyn Bennett's work connected with many people who would not have listened to trad - which to be honest, in some people's hands, can be tedious in the extreme.

As I said just because you didn't like it doesn't make it invalid. All your comments do, by insulting those who do love it, is show your narrow mind.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST,Peter
Date: 06 Feb 18 - 04:32 AM

Frankly from Akeaton's description that concert sounds dreadful but it was just one concert in a massive festival. To extrapolate an opinion on the whole festival from that one performance seems perverse to say the least.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Feb 18 - 04:39 AM

It's not that I don't "like" it. I don't "like some traditional music.
What I object to, is this "avant garde" claptrap being presented on television and on Scotland's largest roots music platform, as having anything in common with folk or Celtic Music.

As you seem to be a bit of a connoisseur, could you explain the bloke with the telephone and the contribution he was making to...Celtic, Roots, and World music.
Not to mention the fella on the exercise machine?

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 06 Feb 18 - 04:45 AM

Sorry Peter, I did not mean to criticise the festival, it used to be great and I have attended many times. Unfortunately I have not been able to go over the last two years...Ake

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 06 Feb 18 - 04:49 AM

I will if I can find it on iplayer :-)

From recollection of the original CD much of the music is based on traditional Scottish music so there should definitely be a connection there.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Feb 18 - 04:55 AM

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Feb 18 - 04:58 AM

Well he was saying..."Aye right" into the phone, so I suppose that's a "Scottish connection"......but is it "folk"?

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Feb 18 - 05:07 AM

and another t'ing. In Ireland young people are deeply involved in traditional music with no need for any of the "theatrical" nonsense which seems to be obligatory to the Scottish folk scene.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 06 Feb 18 - 05:15 AM

Sorry all these guest posts are from me :0(

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 06 Feb 18 - 05:39 AM

Actually the track with the phone call on the original CD was probably my least favourite :-)

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: Jack Campin
Date: 06 Feb 18 - 05:45 AM

I didn't like the original "Grit" very much either. Martyn Bennett was technically fantastic but his compositional abilities have been way overhyped.

I have just been listening to Chris Stout's "Brazilian Theory" - similarly experimental but there's more substance to it.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 06 Feb 18 - 08:10 AM

Well he was saying..."Aye right" into the phone, so I suppose that's a "Scottish connection"......but is it "folk"?

of course its "folk" havnt yet heard a horse do it

with respect to Burl Ives

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Feb 18 - 10:59 AM

Ye huvnae heard a horse playin' the penny whustle either. :0)

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST,Gallus moll
Date: 07 Feb 18 - 12:00 PM

Ake...article in today's 'National' about Celtic Connections with specific reference to the Bothy Culture and Beyond event, also Grit.....you might find it helps broaden your appreciation?
- my first love will always be traditional singing, but it is interesting to see and hear different generations' takes and interpretations.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Feb 18 - 12:18 PM

The National would say that...wouldn't they? :0)
Mah appreciashun disnae need brodind bytheway! Ah wis gaun tae folk clubs whin yoo wir jist a twinkle in yer daddy's eye.

The whole operashin wis a heap of shite, in my considered opinion.
Nae offence intendit tae yoo personally ..like, ah jist cannae be bothered wi' pretenshus twaddle an' kid oan folkies in big groups.
Whit wis it supposed tae be an interpretation of?

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: Allan Conn
Date: 07 Feb 18 - 12:33 PM

I've not seen this yet but I did go to the Grit Orchestra's performance at Edinburgh Festival. They only played the Grit album on three occassions. At Celtic Connections, at the Womad Festival, then at Edinburgh Festival. One of my friends is in the violas. It was a wonderful concert and got rave reviews. Though it may not be too everyone's taste. It was basically an orchestral version of a dance/electronic album, which used old folk songs/tunes as its base material. The album Bothy Culture draws on world music in general. Again there i surely room for innovative works too. Re the rowing boats etc I take it that was referencing the vid attached below. Track taken from Grit and a wonderful 7 minutes watching the splendours of Skye

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQ_IQS3VKjA

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Feb 18 - 01:00 PM

Naw naw Allan.....this wis a gadgie on a rowin' machine in the middle eh the SSEC!
I hink it wis mentae looke like ra Coolins bit thae left sumthin oot :0(

The bagpipes an' orchestra really didnae work pal. Evin wi' yer eyes shut.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 07 Feb 18 - 01:09 PM

Seriously, this stuff needs to be slated hard, it does a great disservice to Scottish traditional music.
As I said earlier the Irish have a terrific culture of music and dance, why cant we?

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST,Chris Murray
Date: 07 Feb 18 - 02:25 PM

I remember when Martyn Bennett was on at Cambridge many years ago. He followed Joan Baez. The organisers tried to get us older ones to move out of the tent by telling us that we wouldn't like his music. Of course, we insisted on staying - and absolutely loved it!!

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 07 Feb 18 - 06:31 PM

Guest - whoever you are - in no way can the comment 'heap of shite' be considered as a considered opinion. It is an opinion but certainly not considered and thus of little value. You may not like it. That's fair enough. That does not make it the pile of ordure you imply. It just means you do not like it. I don't like Mozart's music, or Wagner's operas but I don't insult those that do by name calling that music. Perhaps a more considered analysis might be more useful than insults to the memory of someone who brought a new perspective to Scottish music

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: Gallus Moll
Date: 07 Feb 18 - 06:39 PM

Ake I am not sure what age you think I am? But I've been daein' folk music fer nigh on 60 years - an' ah wis singin' an' listenin' tae ma grampa's sangs even as a wean!
Jist cos ma herr isnae grey disnae mean ah've no' experienced jist as muckle traditional music as yersel!
- it is a bit annoying that while Gordeanna, Anne an' a' the rest o' them wis at Rutherglen Academy in Norman Buchan's ballads club while I was a few miles doon the road at Hamilton and missed that opportunity!

As for yon concert - did you at least watch/hear Fiona Hunter singing The Blackbird (while Danny was cycling up the Cuillins)? If your preference is for traditional voice then surely you enjoyed that?

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Feb 18 - 09:48 AM

No, I must have missed that Gallus.....here ah thought you were fifty somethin', how dae ye keep sae young lookin'?

Dae ye work oot? :0)

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: Allan Conn
Date: 08 Feb 18 - 09:53 AM

The likes of Hamish Henderson, Michael Marra and Sheila Stewart didn't seem to think Martyn's music did a disservice to Scotland! This is a great wee documentary about Bennett showing him working on the Grit album. Look he uses snippets from traditional work in what is dance fusion music. Why should that be a disservice to Scotland? I don't follow that! It may not be to everyone's taste but that is a different thing altogether. And if you don't like Bennett's albums then I imagine you'd not be too bowled over by an orchestral version of his music either - but again that is personal taste. You can clearly see from even the last 5 minutes of the video attached that Bennett loved Scottish folk song and viewed his music as a way to introduce the younger generation to older songs. You can see too that Sheila understands his love of the music and what respect she has for him - totally different to how she viewed Aidan Moffat's versions of folk songs.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aJXNN_D07o

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 08 Feb 18 - 09:56 AM

Sorry Joe don't mean to insult the guy's memory, but the whole arrangement was dire...bagpipes and orchestra don't sound good together. It MIGHT have been well intentioned but it didn't work and as far as I can see it had little to do with CRW music.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 08 Feb 18 - 12:36 PM

Well said Allan

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 08 Feb 18 - 06:09 PM

Well I have got round to watching it - two pieces in and I'm loving it - especially the pipes with the orchestra! I much preferred Grit to this album but this is a good tribute to what was still a remarkable CD

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 08 Feb 18 - 06:39 PM

I don't think the recreation of the rowing scene from the video was necessary but I did enjoy the simulated mountain biking. Blackbird was the best piece yet (perhaps because it was from Grit)

It doesn't all work but the bits that do work really well. As someone who has been a follow since the age of 17, over 40 years ago, I find it exhilarating when someone takes folk music in new directions. Far better to keep it relevant than see it die through lack of invention and interest

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: Gallus Moll
Date: 08 Feb 18 - 06:47 PM

Ake - gingers never look our age!

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 08 Feb 18 - 07:07 PM

I meant 'folkie' not 'follow'!

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Feb 18 - 01:09 PM

Well I suppose that's the point, when you take it "somewhere else" eventually it stops being folk music and becomes "something else".
Traditional music remains virtually static and is discovered and appreciated by succeeding generations......it never dies.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 12 Feb 18 - 01:10 PM

Sorry that was me ^