Review: Celtic Connections

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 13 Feb 18 - 05:11 AM

'Folk music should be about getting through emotionally, wringing the hearts and stamping the feet and even lifting the roof with the spirit of the chorus........the too clever tuneless stuff is solely for pseuds.'

What I saw of the audience at the Grit Orchestra gig suggested that the music did just what you say folk music should do - surely you are not saying the several thousand people in the audience and the others who enjoyed it are all pseuds? We just enjoy what we consider to be good music. Just because you don't like it does not make it of lesser value to the music you do like.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 13 Feb 18 - 03:16 AM

Whatever I have downloaded from BBC Radio Scotland Celtic Connections 2018 has been superb. Some people have nothing better to do than moan!!!

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 13 Feb 18 - 03:09 AM

"I would also suggest it does not include any kind of fusion "

Couldn't agree more.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: Mick Lowe
Date: 12 Feb 18 - 10:12 PM

Wow! I've been away from Mudcat a mere 16 years and all sorts of stuff is kicking off. I also moved to the U.S. 18 months ago but whilst in England I always watched what snippets of Celtic Connections was broadcast on BBC Alba.

Saw some brilliant bands from all over the world. If it wasn't for that festival/show I would never have come across Le Vent du Nord from Quebec who are brilliant. Likewise BBC Alba's coverage of the Trad Awards.

I am not aware of the Mr. Bennett being either vilified or applauded here in this thread, but festivals like Celtic Connections and the Scottish Trad Awards plus the countless shows in Ireland I used to be able to get on Tara TV when I had Sky, are the only ones keeping traditional music alive. In England for the most part they seem only too willing to discount their musical heritage in favour of transatlantic crap.

At the end of the day we have to ask ourselves this question. What is folk/traditional music? I can't give a definitive answer, I'm not qualified to do so. As a starting point I would suggest that it is music/songs that celebrate the cultural history of whatever country it refers to. I would also suggest it does not include any kind of fusion but that's just me being nationalistic, which since coming to the U.S. I'm allowed to be.

As a post it, I am hoping sometime soon to resurrect Prof's Music Website for thise of you who remember it.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST,Captain Swing
Date: 12 Feb 18 - 07:25 PM

I agree with most of what you say there but I've been in too many sessions, clubs etc with old 'folkies' to believe that younger people and popular culture have the monopoly on pretentious rubbish.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 12 Feb 18 - 05:28 PM

Damn forgot to sign in AGAIN!!!

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Feb 18 - 05:24 PM

Of course it isn't.
But have you seen what passes for popular culture recently...can you honestly say that the predictable political "comedians" are actually funny? Foul language, obscenity and downright nastiness is lauded by the youth and force fed to them by an unspeakable media. You see it on this forum, which used to be a haven for discussions of all sorts, all views were supported or argued against, now the place is under a reign of terror, bullies and bigots rule and the prevailing view on all things political protected under threat of expulsion.
The young audience in terms of our genre is being cajoled into seeing worth in pretentious rubbish, while the real emotional gold is obscured.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST,Captain Swing
Date: 12 Feb 18 - 04:49 PM

I love traditional music, especially those forms linked to irish and Scottish music. If the music 'leaks' into other genres that's fine by me. I won't always like the results as I found last year when I heard some folk/ 'house'(?) fusion stuff played by a DJ at a festival. I was pleased it was happening, it just wasn't my cup of tea. I didn't consider the people enjoying it to be 'pseuds'.

Trad music has always drifted towards other genres. I hope it continues to do so. Is being a 'folkie' (hate the term personally) incompatible with enjoying Vaughn Williams for instance?

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 12 Feb 18 - 03:52 PM

I have already cited Irish traditional music and dance, the prayers and performers become incidental, there is huge excitement and emotion in the music, dance and song. That same excitement and emotion is found in archive footage of the old time traditional musicians......the young people of Ireland have carried the culture forward with little or no adaptation.
Folk music should be about getting through emotionally, wringing the hearts and stamping the feet and even lifting the roof with the spirit of the chorus........the too clever tuneless stuff is solely for pseuds.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 12 Feb 18 - 03:38 PM

All of whom seemed to be having a fantastic time - which is more than can be said at some traditional folk events ;-)

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST,Allan C
Date: 12 Feb 18 - 02:07 PM

Again it was not a "folk" concert as such. There were probably dozens upon dozens of folk concerts on at Celtic Connections. This wasn't. It was a concert featuring an orchestral version of a dance/folk fusion album. I have now watched it and it was superb as far as I am concerned but that is just a matter of taste. There certainly wasn't just hundreds in the audience either. You could see there were a few thousand at least. I read it was a 6,000 sell out.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 12 Feb 18 - 01:17 PM

The shambles at Celtic Connections was analogous to the direction of today's society, change simply for the sake of it, thoughtless, destructive and if we don't regain our senses, unstoppable.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 12 Feb 18 - 01:10 PM

Sorry that was me ^

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Feb 18 - 01:09 PM

Well I suppose that's the point, when you take it "somewhere else" eventually it stops being folk music and becomes "something else".
Traditional music remains virtually static and is discovered and appreciated by succeeding generations......it never dies.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 08 Feb 18 - 07:07 PM

I meant 'folkie' not 'follow'!

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: Gallus Moll
Date: 08 Feb 18 - 06:47 PM

Ake - gingers never look our age!

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 08 Feb 18 - 06:39 PM

I don't think the recreation of the rowing scene from the video was necessary but I did enjoy the simulated mountain biking. Blackbird was the best piece yet (perhaps because it was from Grit)

It doesn't all work but the bits that do work really well. As someone who has been a follow since the age of 17, over 40 years ago, I find it exhilarating when someone takes folk music in new directions. Far better to keep it relevant than see it die through lack of invention and interest

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 08 Feb 18 - 06:09 PM

Well I have got round to watching it - two pieces in and I'm loving it - especially the pipes with the orchestra! I much preferred Grit to this album but this is a good tribute to what was still a remarkable CD

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 08 Feb 18 - 12:36 PM

Well said Allan

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 08 Feb 18 - 09:56 AM

Sorry Joe don't mean to insult the guy's memory, but the whole arrangement was dire...bagpipes and orchestra don't sound good together. It MIGHT have been well intentioned but it didn't work and as far as I can see it had little to do with CRW music.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: Allan Conn
Date: 08 Feb 18 - 09:53 AM

The likes of Hamish Henderson, Michael Marra and Sheila Stewart didn't seem to think Martyn's music did a disservice to Scotland! This is a great wee documentary about Bennett showing him working on the Grit album. Look he uses snippets from traditional work in what is dance fusion music. Why should that be a disservice to Scotland? I don't follow that! It may not be to everyone's taste but that is a different thing altogether. And if you don't like Bennett's albums then I imagine you'd not be too bowled over by an orchestral version of his music either - but again that is personal taste. You can clearly see from even the last 5 minutes of the video attached that Bennett loved Scottish folk song and viewed his music as a way to introduce the younger generation to older songs. You can see too that Sheila understands his love of the music and what respect she has for him - totally different to how she viewed Aidan Moffat's versions of folk songs.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aJXNN_D07o

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Feb 18 - 09:48 AM

No, I must have missed that Gallus.....here ah thought you were fifty somethin', how dae ye keep sae young lookin'?

Dae ye work oot? :0)

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: Gallus Moll
Date: 07 Feb 18 - 06:39 PM

Ake I am not sure what age you think I am? But I've been daein' folk music fer nigh on 60 years - an' ah wis singin' an' listenin' tae ma grampa's sangs even as a wean!
Jist cos ma herr isnae grey disnae mean ah've no' experienced jist as muckle traditional music as yersel!
- it is a bit annoying that while Gordeanna, Anne an' a' the rest o' them wis at Rutherglen Academy in Norman Buchan's ballads club while I was a few miles doon the road at Hamilton and missed that opportunity!

As for yon concert - did you at least watch/hear Fiona Hunter singing The Blackbird (while Danny was cycling up the Cuillins)? If your preference is for traditional voice then surely you enjoyed that?

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 07 Feb 18 - 06:31 PM

Guest - whoever you are - in no way can the comment 'heap of shite' be considered as a considered opinion. It is an opinion but certainly not considered and thus of little value. You may not like it. That's fair enough. That does not make it the pile of ordure you imply. It just means you do not like it. I don't like Mozart's music, or Wagner's operas but I don't insult those that do by name calling that music. Perhaps a more considered analysis might be more useful than insults to the memory of someone who brought a new perspective to Scottish music

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST,Chris Murray
Date: 07 Feb 18 - 02:25 PM

I remember when Martyn Bennett was on at Cambridge many years ago. He followed Joan Baez. The organisers tried to get us older ones to move out of the tent by telling us that we wouldn't like his music. Of course, we insisted on staying - and absolutely loved it!!

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 07 Feb 18 - 01:09 PM

Seriously, this stuff needs to be slated hard, it does a great disservice to Scottish traditional music.
As I said earlier the Irish have a terrific culture of music and dance, why cant we?

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Feb 18 - 01:00 PM

Naw naw Allan.....this wis a gadgie on a rowin' machine in the middle eh the SSEC!
I hink it wis mentae looke like ra Coolins bit thae left sumthin oot :0(

The bagpipes an' orchestra really didnae work pal. Evin wi' yer eyes shut.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: Allan Conn
Date: 07 Feb 18 - 12:33 PM

I've not seen this yet but I did go to the Grit Orchestra's performance at Edinburgh Festival. They only played the Grit album on three occassions. At Celtic Connections, at the Womad Festival, then at Edinburgh Festival. One of my friends is in the violas. It was a wonderful concert and got rave reviews. Though it may not be too everyone's taste. It was basically an orchestral version of a dance/electronic album, which used old folk songs/tunes as its base material. The album Bothy Culture draws on world music in general. Again there i surely room for innovative works too. Re the rowing boats etc I take it that was referencing the vid attached below. Track taken from Grit and a wonderful 7 minutes watching the splendours of Skye

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQ_IQS3VKjA

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Feb 18 - 12:18 PM

The National would say that...wouldn't they? :0)
Mah appreciashun disnae need brodind bytheway! Ah wis gaun tae folk clubs whin yoo wir jist a twinkle in yer daddy's eye.

The whole operashin wis a heap of shite, in my considered opinion.
Nae offence intendit tae yoo personally ..like, ah jist cannae be bothered wi' pretenshus twaddle an' kid oan folkies in big groups.
Whit wis it supposed tae be an interpretation of?

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST,Gallus moll
Date: 07 Feb 18 - 12:00 PM

Ake...article in today's 'National' about Celtic Connections with specific reference to the Bothy Culture and Beyond event, also Grit.....you might find it helps broaden your appreciation?
- my first love will always be traditional singing, but it is interesting to see and hear different generations' takes and interpretations.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Feb 18 - 10:59 AM

Ye huvnae heard a horse playin' the penny whustle either. :0)

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 06 Feb 18 - 08:10 AM

Well he was saying..."Aye right" into the phone, so I suppose that's a "Scottish connection"......but is it "folk"?

of course its "folk" havnt yet heard a horse do it

with respect to Burl Ives

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: Jack Campin
Date: 06 Feb 18 - 05:45 AM

I didn't like the original "Grit" very much either. Martyn Bennett was technically fantastic but his compositional abilities have been way overhyped.

I have just been listening to Chris Stout's "Brazilian Theory" - similarly experimental but there's more substance to it.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 06 Feb 18 - 05:39 AM

Actually the track with the phone call on the original CD was probably my least favourite :-)

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 06 Feb 18 - 05:15 AM

Sorry all these guest posts are from me :0(

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Feb 18 - 05:07 AM

and another t'ing. In Ireland young people are deeply involved in traditional music with no need for any of the "theatrical" nonsense which seems to be obligatory to the Scottish folk scene.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Feb 18 - 04:58 AM

Well he was saying..."Aye right" into the phone, so I suppose that's a "Scottish connection"......but is it "folk"?

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Feb 18 - 04:55 AM

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 06 Feb 18 - 04:49 AM

I will if I can find it on iplayer :-)

From recollection of the original CD much of the music is based on traditional Scottish music so there should definitely be a connection there.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 06 Feb 18 - 04:45 AM

Sorry Peter, I did not mean to criticise the festival, it used to be great and I have attended many times. Unfortunately I have not been able to go over the last two years...Ake

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Feb 18 - 04:39 AM

It's not that I don't "like" it. I don't "like some traditional music.
What I object to, is this "avant garde" claptrap being presented on television and on Scotland's largest roots music platform, as having anything in common with folk or Celtic Music.

As you seem to be a bit of a connoisseur, could you explain the bloke with the telephone and the contribution he was making to...Celtic, Roots, and World music.
Not to mention the fella on the exercise machine?

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST,Peter
Date: 06 Feb 18 - 04:32 AM

Frankly from Akeaton's description that concert sounds dreadful but it was just one concert in a massive festival. To extrapolate an opinion on the whole festival from that one performance seems perverse to say the least.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 06 Feb 18 - 04:21 AM

It depends what you call music of the people. I dare say Martyn Bennett's work connected with many people who would not have listened to trad - which to be honest, in some people's hands, can be tedious in the extreme.

As I said just because you didn't like it doesn't make it invalid. All your comments do, by insulting those who do love it, is show your narrow mind.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Feb 18 - 03:46 AM

Whatever it was, it certainly was not the "music of the people", rather "music" of a pseudo artistic elite(sorry Gallus, you are always an exception :0)).

I only watched four small sections, but in all honestly I did not find it uplifting, or even tuneful. I don't think I could have managed to sit through the whole performance.....and that is what it was, a pretentious homage to the people who have hijacked folk music.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST,Sol
Date: 05 Feb 18 - 08:59 PM

Bottom line: each to his own. End of.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: Gallus Moll
Date: 05 Feb 18 - 06:34 PM

How I wish I'd made it to the Bothy Culture concert!
Greg Lawson is an absolute genius to have been able to interpret and orchestrate Martyn Bennet's studio-produced... techno? dance? don't know what it's called ... compositions for a huge group/orchestra of mainly of not all folk/trad muscians and singers - plus Danny McAskill!! and another cyclists, also the amazing (trapeze?) artistes -- Grit was incredible, memorable -- but Bothy Culture surpassed it!   
Ake -- - like you my preference is traditional singing, but remember - Martyn grew up in that culture, his mother is Margaret Bennet, Gaelic singer, historian, academic, colleague of Hamish Henderson. I remember Martyn as a young lad stunning us all with his piping at a concert in George Square Theatre, Edinburgh. He was steeped in tradition - he was also a talented musician and filled with incredible ideas and experiences - - he achieved so much in his short life, cancer took him just short of his 34th birthday, But his legacy, his vision, his marrying of cultures- -
If you open your mind and really hear what he has woven into the tapestry of his compositions, there are fragments of traditional singers - including his mother. There are hints of ancient pipe and fiddle tunes...there's bird song, weather......I am no musical expert, I canny read manuscript -- but I listen and I hear, I can become lost in the music or the song- - - did you not wait long enough to hear Fiona Hunter?!
Perhaps it is best to be at a live performance? But - give Grit an chance, then try Bothy Culture again.
And please respect the unique Greg Lawson -- -

Also - just cos you dinna like / un'erstaun' it disnae mean iverybiddy else disnae - -- !!!
May no' hiv been tae yer taste, but certainly wis tae mine!

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Feb 18 - 06:13 PM

That's right Joe G. I really can't abide most of the work that Queen produced but I can't deny that it was also excellent work. As musicians they were far more proficient than, say, the Stones or the Beatles and Freddie Mercury was a magnificent singer.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 05 Feb 18 - 04:14 PM

Absolutely correct. Because someone doesn't like a particular type of music doesn't mean it is bad it just means they don't like it. I don't like Wagner's opera, Mozart or Drum&Bass but that doesn't make them inferior to the music I do like

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST,Captain Swing
Date: 05 Feb 18 - 04:02 PM

Guest 03.45: As an older person myself (62) I don't find my comment insulting. It's simply a fact.

Like or dislike the stuff that's presented at CC (and I don't like it all by any means), it cannot be labelled "fake', anti-music etc - the quality of music and musicianship is superb and matched by their passion and respect for the traditions.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Connections
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 05 Feb 18 - 03:51 PM

It would be useful if those criticising this performance listened to the original CD on which this music is based. Have a listen and tell us what you think. Also have a listen to Bennett's masterpiece Grit - probably the most innovative work to come out of Scotland

I am not sure if I can access the programme of the orchestral version but I'll have another look. Certainly last year's performance by the same orchestra was superb