BS: Flat Earthism

Subject: BS: Flat Earthism
From: Jack Campin
Date: 06 Feb 18 - 09:57 AM

Anybody know the story behind the revival of flat earthism?

Who started it, and why?

How is it being promoted?

Whose interests are served by it?

Subject: RE: BS: Flat Earthism
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Feb 18 - 11:45 AM

Dunno, devolution?

In the cosmological holographic universe theory, the z axis is an illusion projected from afar. It says we live in a macro two dimensional universe. What we touch. What we smell. What we feel. They’re all part of our reality. But what if life as we know it reflects only one side of the full story? Some of the world’s leading physicists think that this may be the case. They believe that our reality is a projection—sort of like a hologram—of laws and processes that exist on a thin surface surrounding us at the edge of the universe. Although the notion seems outlandish, it’s a long-standing theory that initially emerged years ago from scientists studying black holes; recently, a breakthrough in string theory propelled the idea into the mainstream of physics. What took place was an intriguing discussion on the cutting-edge results that may just change the way we view reality.

I see the holographic universe as our most advanced form of bull shit that is second only to my own.

Subject: RE: BS: Flat Earthism
From: Jack Campin
Date: 06 Feb 18 - 11:50 AM

No. This is a specific product of the contemporary American bullshit industry. It is not some culture-free emanation of the human mind, it has an ideological purpose and a particular group of people are promoting it.

Subject: RE: BS: Flat Earthism
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Feb 18 - 12:00 PM

oh, its a conspiracy, well that's a horse of a different color.


supreme white?

Subject: RE: BS: Flat Earthism
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Feb 18 - 12:36 PM

I am convinced that it is a product of the general trend of distrusting authority so completely that anything asserted by government entities must be false.... and since the physics of moon landings in hard to comprehend, the topography of the Earth easily follows.... especially when coupled with some evangelical religious fervor.

And, of course for a few, a healthy dollop of Andy Kaufman style game-playing to stir the pot.

There seems to be a moderate sized group in Colorado fueling this latest upsurge.

Subject: RE: BS: Flat Earthism
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Feb 18 - 01:04 PM

I'd vote for that Bill.
If I too were a red neck disadvantaged uneducated tribal hick who was sick and tired of being called stupid, racist, crazy, hateful and a deplorable piece of human waste - I could see how I would join a group that empowered me in any way. Lies wouldn't matter, I knew what it felt lied to and about before. Calling the elite names would feel good. It would all be grist for the mill. A Mill of ill will.

Subject: RE: BS: Flat Earthism
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Feb 18 - 01:17 PM

Who started it, and why?

Cretins.

How is it being promoted?

Internet.

Whose interests are served by it?

Trump, by energizing his flock of mindless idiots.

Subject: RE: BS: Flat Earthism
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Feb 18 - 01:30 PM

I expect the gender neutrals have a hand in it too being cranky!!

Subject: RE: BS: Flat Earthism
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Feb 18 - 01:30 PM

edit (what it felt like to be lied to and about before)

Something Jack said off hand has me thinking that every emanation from the human mind comes dressed in cultural clothing.
Be it Albert Einstein or Paul Ryan, culture shapes the ambition and produces ideas to satisfy that ambition.

While all minds are from and by the universe, the quantum detail of culture makes all the difference. Is there a word for this belief?
Would it make me a bad person to espouse this belief?

I would choose to be cosmopolitan over nationalistic, yet I live in a sea of nationalism because of economics.

Subject: RE: BS: Flat Earthism
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Feb 18 - 02:20 PM

It may be a lawyerly way of thinking but a few of you may begin to see that if the quantum detail of culture makes all the difference, then white supremacy has a legitimate raison d'etre.

If you were a lawyer could you agree to argue for the defense of Trumpism and White Nationalism factually and without lying??

Suppose you had to.

Subject: RE: BS: Flat Earthism
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 06 Feb 18 - 02:31 PM

If the world were spherical, then people in the southern hemisphere would be upside down - in which case, I would be upside down to them.

I know that I'm not upside down, therefore the earth must be flat.

DC
:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Flat Earthism
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 06 Feb 18 - 02:39 PM

Donuel
Please forgive me but I think you are misguided. If I were you, which I'm not, I would backtrack by approximately two conclusions reset my / your sat-nav as home and continue from there ..... happy hunting

Subject: RE: BS: Flat Earthism
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Feb 18 - 02:43 PM

But Doug then the nighttime cycle would progress from the Northern Hemisphere to the Southern Hemisphere. Doesn't it go from east to west?
":^|

Subject: RE: BS: Flat Earthism
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Feb 18 - 02:56 PM

Kenny, reverse thinking can lead to new understanding.
New understanding can lead to forgiveness.
Forgiveness can lead to dialog.
Talking again can lead to
peaceful relations.

Or we can rely on whoever has the most ammunition wins.
Politics today is like two armed camps.
We need the appearance of a middle if only to block the view of the armed camps. In defense of Joe, the middle is now a very dangerous place just as you suggested.

Subject: RE: BS: Flat Earthism
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Feb 18 - 03:09 PM

Personally where it all falls down for me is at forgiveness.
But I can fake it.

Subject: RE: BS: Flat Earthism
From: Pete from seven stars link
Date: 06 Feb 18 - 04:33 PM

Despite the oft repeated slur that creationism equates to flat earth, creation societies have actually been quite concerned with the subject . Danny Faulkner of aig wrote an article awhile back saying how he had been immersing himself in the phenomena, and his conclusion was that it was mostly being pushed by people that don't actually believe it themselves , but " having a laugh " at who they could catch. Christians that don't have great discerning between poetic and plain meanings seem to be a particular target , thus adding to the otherwise false idea that creationists are flat earth ers.

Subject: RE: BS: Flat Earthism
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 06 Feb 18 - 04:48 PM

Donuel I totally agree with your last 2 posts

Ever thought of rung for president ?

Subject: RE: BS: Flat Earthism
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 06 Feb 18 - 04:50 PM

Typo alert "rung" should be running or maybe I had a "hidden meaning moment"

Subject: RE: BS: Flat Earthism
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Feb 18 - 05:07 PM

Kenny B, Bill knows. I speak as well as FDR walked.

Subject: RE: BS: Flat Earthism
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 06 Feb 18 - 06:13 PM

C'est la vie say the old folks
you know you never can tell

Subject: RE: BS: Flat Earthism
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Feb 18 - 07:56 PM

Thing is, Pete, flat-earthism is very similar to creationism in two crucial respects. First, "evidence" for both is so fatally flawed that it fails every evidence test imaginable. Second, both notions fly in the face of abundant evidence to the contrary. Equating these notions is not a slur. It's a shrug. We await the evidence, simple as that.

Subject: RE: BS: Flat Earthism
From: Jack Campin
Date: 07 Feb 18 - 09:43 AM

The old-school Flat Earth Society certainly did mean it ironically (they wound up about 20 years ago, I think) and I can certainly see why Christians might not have found their activities funny. This new lot are different, and I think Greg F. has got their motivations right. But there has to be a specific historical process to be uncovered here.

Subject: RE: BS: Flat Earthism
From: Greg F.
Date: 07 Feb 18 - 12:16 PM

Christians that don't have great discerning between poetic and plain meanings

"Christians"??

I think you meant to say science deniers that can't tell fantasy from reality or fact from fiction, pete.

Subject: RE: BS: Flat Earthism
From: Pete from seven stars link
Date: 07 Feb 18 - 03:50 PM

Which evidence test is that Steve ?

Subject: RE: BS: Flat Earthism
From: Jack Campin
Date: 07 Feb 18 - 04:28 PM

It isn't relevant. What is important about flat earthism isn't anything epistemological, but the sociology and political economy of the movement. It has drawn in people who would never take creationism seriously; why, and what are they intending to do with these improbable recruits?

Subject: RE: BS: Flat Earthism
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 Feb 18 - 04:52 PM

More crankism, I forgot about those idiots!

Subject: RE: BS: Flat Earthism
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 08 Feb 18 - 05:24 AM

But Doug then the nighttime cycle would progress from the Northern Hemisphere to the Southern Hemisphere. Doesn't it go from east to west?
":^|

Don't bother me with technicalities. All I know is the Sun goes round the Earth once a day. How it does it is not my concern.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Flat Earthism
From: Lighter
Date: 08 Feb 18 - 06:38 PM

FWIW, this is new to me.

So either only a teeny-weeny number of idiots are involved, or else it's a larger social-media phenomenon.

Which means there's no telling how seriously it's being taken.

Surely it began as a trolling exercise (like "Pizzagate")?

Subject: RE: BS: Flat Earthism
From: robomatic
Date: 08 Feb 18 - 07:09 PM

The OP did not reference specifically what was the subject of discussion. It can be found here.

My father, a physicist, got on The Flat Earth Society's mailing list. "They seek me out." was his observation.

I believe that the current wave of 'belief' is that people simply believe what they can see.

Subject: RE: BS: Flat Earthism
From: BobL
Date: 09 Feb 18 - 04:59 AM

This subject has aired in New Scientist in recent months. One contributor suggested that the Flat Earthers should mount an expedition to discover the Edge. The response was that they probably had, but that it had become hopelessly lost.

Would our 3-D globe be flat in a 4-dimensional universe though?

Subject: RE: BS: Flat Earthism
From: Mr Red
Date: 09 Feb 18 - 12:09 PM

Colorado - flat?
Do they know how deep the Grand Canyon is?

Subject: RE: BS: Flat Earthism
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Feb 18 - 12:27 PM

Yebbut vinyl records are flat but they still have grooves.

Subject: RE: BS: Flat Earthism
From: Senoufou
Date: 09 Feb 18 - 12:39 PM

I'm rather concerned about the four turtles who support the flat Earth on their backs. Is anybody feeding them? Are they happy? Should we find four more to give them a break and they can all work shifts?

Subject: RE: BS: Flat Earthism
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Feb 18 - 01:40 PM

I hope so. We don't want a turtle disaster on our hands.

Subject: RE: BS: Flat Earthism
From: Pete from seven stars link
Date: 09 Feb 18 - 03:32 PM

Supposedly seen on a flat earth site            " flat earth is a global phenomenon "

Subject: RE: BS: Flat Earthism
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Feb 18 - 03:50 PM

Is that a 6000 year old flat earth, pete?

Subject: RE: BS: Flat Earthism
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Feb 18 - 04:13 PM

Here in DC the Flat Earth Society has an office. Behind the front counter there are 6 clocks displaying the time in LA, DC, London, Moscow, Beijing and Honolulu.

?

Subject: RE: BS: Flat Earthism
From: Senoufou
Date: 09 Feb 18 - 04:17 PM

Crumpets are flat but they have lots of holes in them...

Subject: RE: BS: Flat Earthism
From: robomatic
Date: 09 Feb 18 - 05:17 PM

Brains are kinda round, but they are groovy.

Subject: RE: BS: Flat Earthism
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Feb 18 - 05:27 PM

"turtles all the way down"

I think turtle food is passed 'down from above', like manna.

Subject: RE: BS: Flat Earthism
From: Jack Campin
Date: 09 Feb 18 - 05:35 PM

The person I know locally who's getting into this seems to be heading for a schizophrenic breakdown.

I've had two friends in the past who went the same way, passing through fringe beliefs on the way to horrible suicides - one was involved in Theosophy and poisoned himself with phenol, the other went through Tantric Buddhism before starving himself to death in a derelict building. I don't blame the Buddhists, their support obviously wasn't enough but it's hard to imagine what could have been. The Theosophists were outright murderers, egging the guy on into deeper and deeper craziness and grandiose detachment from reality.

My guess is the flat earthers are in between - it's a belief system guaranteed to draw in a lot of people with profound mental health problems, but with no provision whatever for helping them.

Subject: RE: BS: Flat Earthism
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Feb 18 - 05:39 PM

a belief system guaranteed to draw in a lot of people with profound mental health problems, but with no provision whatever for helping them.

Rather like creationism, innit?

Subject: RE: BS: Flat Earthism
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Feb 18 - 06:03 PM

Jack what if it was you and not the whacky belief systems ";^/
Espousing strange belief systems does attract a lot of criticism.

"Brains are kinda round, but they are groovy."

Over time our brain is more globular. Albert had fairly normal convolutions but his white matter was twice as thick. The white matter is composed of GABA found in Potato. This does not mean Albert was a potato head but that he had lots of GABA. Better than Prevagen I'm working on a soft potato based breakfast cereal (dabadoo) to improve brain function.
GABA dabadoo, its delicious
and smart.

Subject: RE: BS: Flat Earthism
From: robomatic
Date: 10 Feb 18 - 08:37 PM

I have read various items about the insides of Alber's cranium, and I doubt that any of them are verifiable. There was a supposed road trip taken with his brain and eyeballs but I don't think anyone with a real background in the subject got a chance to do a 'fair and balanced' (I nearly wrote 'fair and blanched') analysis.

Plus, it used to be argued that women could not be intelligent as men because their brains were smaller. No one with half a brain is arguing that anymore.

Subject: RE: BS: Flat Earthism
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Feb 18 - 11:16 PM

http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/2014/04/21/the-tragic-story-of-how-einsteins-brain-was-stolen-and-wasnt-even-special/

Actually smaller brains have more genius attributes than large brains.

Its about interconnections more than neurons.

All I know is that I'd never win at Jeopardy.

Subject: RE: BS: Flat Earthism
From: Pete from seven stars link
Date: 11 Feb 18 - 03:17 PM

I only know one flat earther. He is involved in a few other conspiracy ideas, but I would not say he was unbalanced mentally. Also a talented musician

Subject: RE: BS: Flat Earthism
From: robomatic
Date: 11 Feb 18 - 03:50 PM

My old flight instructor said that it didn't take much brains to be a pilot.
He said he could teach a monkey to fly a plane.
He said that his best student was a woman.

These statements didn't occur all together so draw no implications other than you don't have to be Albert Einstein nor be a 'penis owner' to learn to fly.

Subject: RE: BS: Flat Earthism
From: keberoxu
Date: 13 Feb 18 - 11:11 AM

Jack, your mentioning Theosophists made me sit up a little straighter.
You also mentioned schizophrenic breakdown.
The Theosophists had their breakdown a century ago!
They've been broken in pieces ever since.

So I'm now curious to know
WHICH Theosophist breakdown survivors had their claws in your acquaintance.

Were they Leadbetter adherents,
Besant believers,
or some other splinter . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Flat Earthism
From: Jack Campin
Date: 13 Feb 18 - 12:24 PM

I couldn't tell you. They were operating from a church on Upper Queen Street, Auckland in the early 70s. Had a thing about Edgar Cayce.

Another bunch of them got another friend of mine scared out of her wits ten years later - she was tougher and got through it ok in the end.

I wouldn't want to get into a conversation with any of them.