BS: Syrian Conflict

Subject: BS: Syrian Conflict
From: Raggytash
Date: 24 Feb 18 - 05:22 AM

Here you go boys a dedicated thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Syrian Conflict
From: Iains
Date: 24 Feb 18 - 05:30 AM

Not much point. Jimmy believes the white helmets are on the side of the angels.(Perhaps they are as they can wander about an area supposedly exposed to Sarin, and require no protection.)Perhaps they are angels or, more likely, simply bullshit artistes. No doubt he believes in the tooth fairy as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Syrian Conflict
From: robomatic
Date: 24 Feb 18 - 06:46 AM

You got nothing to say, so open a thread? Can't rub a couple of neurons together? What are you, gods gift to thread openers? Did you go to a one room school house and sleep for twelve years?
Why don't you wait until someone has something to say, then let THEM name the damthread.

curmudgeoncurmudgeoncurmudgeoncurmudge-

Subject: RE: BS: Syrian Conflict
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Feb 18 - 06:48 AM

Sorry Rag- if you really believe that you can sanitise Brexit by excluding all its side-effects we really do occupy different planets and wherever you try to sideline these problems you're bout to attract the inevitable inarticulate troll with their (Jimmy")
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Syrian Conflict
From: Raggytash
Date: 24 Feb 18 - 06:50 AM

Because Robomatic they are discussing the Syrian conflict on a thread dedicated to another subject thus detracting from the main subject
there.

Is that reason OK for you?

Subject: RE: BS: Syrian Conflict
From: Iains
Date: 24 Feb 18 - 07:04 AM

Makes a change from the "weeds, wandering and wine" that you and your little mates are prone to infest threads with.
Would you like some examples?

Subject: RE: BS: Syrian Conflict
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Feb 18 - 07:05 AM

"they are discussing the Syrian conflict on a thread dedicated to another subject"
Cross-posted - you've had your answer on this and the other thread Rag
Would welcome a response
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Syrian Conflict
From: Iains
Date: 24 Feb 18 - 07:14 AM

Sauce for the goose and all that!

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Raggytash - PM
Date: 12 Feb 17 - 06:57 AM

One area of the Connemara, Slyne Head (which boasts two lighthouses) is a place with a remarkable array of orchids. Frequently found are the Greater Butterfly Orchid which is stunningly beautiful in June and July.

No deviation from that thread now. Is there boyo?

Subject: RE: BS: Syrian Conflict
From: robomatic
Date: 24 Feb 18 - 07:16 AM

Thanks for the context, R, but maybe taking the trouble in the OP would make life a little easier for those of us who need to be led by the nose!

Subject: RE: BS: Syrian Conflict
From: Raggytash
Date: 24 Feb 18 - 07:21 AM

The Syrian conflict is serious subject well worth discussing and a dedicated thread seemed to be the best way to promote that.

If people want to post about wild flowers, beer, food or even lighthouses on the Brexit thread that is fine, a refreshing break from some of the turgid nonsense that Brexiteers post.

Subject: RE: BS: Syrian Conflict
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Feb 18 - 07:22 AM

Robo, you say tomato I say tomato.

Iains is not a curmudgeon he is a Russian provocateur.

He is a HATE SHAPER, a shape shifter, a denier and ignorer of truth.

Much to his dismay Iains will deny this truth: https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/02/22/report-russian-approval-preceded-attack-on-us-troops-in-syria/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/02/23/russian-mercenary-boss-spoke-kremlin-attacking-us-forces-syria/

Subject: RE: BS: Syrian Conflict
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Feb 18 - 07:44 AM

"The Syrian conflict is serious subject well worth discussing and a dedicated thread seemed to be the best way to promote that."
Yes it is, but there is no reason it cannotot be discussed on other related threads
These things are inseparable and cannont be forced into filing draws when they are inter-related
Nice thought about out tame troll Don
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Syrian Conflict
From: Iains
Date: 24 Feb 18 - 08:05 AM

No dismay at all Donuel. I have a very discriminating bullshit detector. A shame many others do not. Like most other subjects Syria is not black and white. Shades of grey prevail. The only certainty is that the war in Syria was started by external forces. No guesses as to who was behind it. However you continue to believe your false news narratives and disparage alternative viewpoints. One day the chickens will come home to roost and in your environment there will be much squawking. American hegenomy will falter, just like all other empires. It may all be bread and circuses occurring thousands of miles away today, but do you think that situation will prevail indefinitely?
   What is the equivalent today of the Vietnam?
          Hey, Hey, LBJ! How Many Kids Did You Kill Today??
APHGANISTAN
IRAQ
LIBYA
SYRIA
YEMEN..................

The protest back in the Vietnam era was widely supported.
Explain why there is no equivalent protest today?
False news?
Ignorance?
Dumbed down Education?

You tell me!

Subject: RE: BS: Syrian Conflict
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Feb 18 - 08:30 AM

"You tell me!"
Indifference of the part of politicians and a policy of self interest sond by them in the form of Trump, the rise of fascism in Europe and turds like you who described what was happening in the first place as "false news"
The sixties and seventies were very different worlds than today's passive acceptance of atrocities in the name of 'national security'
The West, Britain and America in particular have now adoppted an 'dog-eat-dog' attitude and turned their back on what is happening in the world
We have allowed or politicians to become 'part of the problems' rather than solutions to them
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Syrian Conflict
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Feb 18 - 09:07 AM

well I sense a change in tone but your pre Soviet questions are easy =

There is no draft as in Viet Nam

As an expert in fake news you know that isn't even a question.

There is deliberate exaggerated fox tribalism that divides and conquers.

Ignorance is immortal.


Your other points are however indisputable.

Subject: RE: BS: Syrian Conflict
From: Iains
Date: 24 Feb 18 - 09:27 AM

A very selfish society driving around partly on "American" oil that underlies many parts of the Middle East.(The bible according to Bush) Could not give a shit about the death toll generated by your policies. Everything is OK providing you do not have to repatriate too many in body bags. It is all just another video game played out on TV is it not?
Strange that Isis was defeated and keeps popping up again all over fully armed and equipped. Must be magic, must it not?
Unless of course Uncle Sam is handing out pressies!

Subject: RE: BS: Syrian Conflict
From: bobad
Date: 24 Feb 18 - 09:28 AM

Putin learned well the lessons of Viet Nam and Afghanistan - control of the media and internet avoids his public seeing images of their boys returning home in boxes. If anything leaks through he has that covered with his pseudo mercenaries story. The perks of dictatorship.

Subject: RE: BS: Syrian Conflict
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Feb 18 - 09:32 AM

Predictably Iains ignored the Russia attacking US troops - breaking story.
He pivoted to a Russian blames the US equivalency argument.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/02/22/report-russian-approval-preceded-attack-on-us-troops-in-syria/

A tame troll? The evidence points elsewhere.
You don't have to be Hercule Poirot

Russ-Iains what you say about empires goes double for Putin.

Subject: RE: BS: Syrian Conflict
From: bobad
Date: 24 Feb 18 - 09:43 AM

It's pretty clear that these pseudo mercenaries are taking their marching orders from the Russians. Just as in the Ukraine they are regulars who have changed uniforms. This avoids having to follow military protocol when repatriating the dead and wounded. Public opinion is feared by dictators that's why Putin does everything to control it.

Subject: RE: BS: Syrian Conflict
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Feb 18 - 09:47 AM

"Must be magic, must it not?"
The rise of Isis is a direct result of the inaction on Syria during the Homs slaughter - a bunch of cranks who offered an alternative and self-interest
While that indifference and self-interest remains, so will nutters like Isis
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Syrian Conflict
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Feb 18 - 10:07 AM

Iains, just admit your Russian sympathies.
What you have to say about Russian friends who convinced you of their version of solidarity and fairness is far more interesting and truthful than posting fake news.

Who knows, you could find more sympathetic ears and converts than with endless political chaos strategies. There is chess to play instead of Putin's checkers.

Like you, Trump will ignore Russians now attacking US troops
Now is the best time for you to get real.

Did opposition to US insanities draw you in or an idealized notion of communism?

Subject: RE: BS: Syrian Conflict
From: Iains
Date: 24 Feb 18 - 10:11 AM

"russian-approval-preceded-attack-on-us-troops-in-syria/"

Russia is aiding it's ally Syria to remove illegal forces.

Subject: RE: BS: Syrian Conflict
From: bobad
Date: 24 Feb 18 - 10:21 AM

Russia is aiding it's ally Syria to remove illegal forces.

Except they announced that have withdrawn their ground forces......oops.

Subject: RE: BS: Syrian Conflict
From: Iains
Date: 24 Feb 18 - 12:58 PM

Plenty of their blackwater equivalents though(and I suspect they are not forced to go through quite so many name changes). How many American troops are really there? Illegally!

Troops fighting in a country with no legal basis to justify their presence cannot realistically expect to make any rational case for their continuing presence. They simply prolong the carnage among the civilian population. But civilians cannot fight back and therefore would seem to count for nothing. Is that why there is a deliberate policy to destroy infrastructure and embed troops among the producing oil fields? Why else the concentration around the oilfields of Deir ez-Zor and fighting around the gas fields of Ash Shaer?

Subject: RE: BS: Syrian Conflict
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Feb 18 - 01:22 PM

Troops fighting in a country with no legal basis to justify their presence cannot realistically expect to make any rational case for their continuing presence.

Rather like the U.S. in Vietnam? Or Iraq? Or Afghanistan? Didn't seem to stop 'em, tho, rational case or not......

Subject: RE: BS: Syrian Conflict
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Feb 18 - 01:37 PM

"Russia is aiding it's ally Syria to remove illegal forces."
And a large slice of the civilian population, as it has always done
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Syrian Conflict
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Feb 18 - 01:39 PM

How dare you make a rational case. ":^{
I think Iains has found his voice.

Russia is employing the US version of Blackwater. Russia is using a weaponized party line for chaos and confusion as powerfully as our NSA Olympus program uses stuxnet to destroy hard targets.

None the less RUSSIA has attacked US troops and Trump remains SILENT !!
Assad continues to murder Syrians wholesale.
Europe is swelling with refugees and destroying others in camps.


The average media consumer probably does not know half of this mess.

Subject: RE: BS: Syrian Conflict
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Feb 18 - 01:43 PM

"Troops fighting in a country with no legal basis to justify their presence cannot realistically expect to make any rational case for their continuing presence."
The overwhelming casualties in Syria are civilians and legitimate opponents of teh Assad regime
Any war is governed by the Geneva Convention which limits the methods used - Syria, with its chemicals and outright indiscriminate slaughter has long contravened those limitations
FAKE NEWS
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Syrian Conflict
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Feb 18 - 02:29 PM

A temporary CEASE FIRE IS AGREED UPON DESPITE RUSSIA EXCEPTIONS

Subject: RE: BS: Syrian Conflict
From: Iains
Date: 24 Feb 18 - 03:07 PM

"The overwhelming casualties in Syria are civilians and legitimate opponents of teh Assad regime
Any war is governed by the Geneva Convention which limits the methods used - Syria, with its chemicals and outright indiscriminate slaughter has long contravened those limitations"

Goebbels and the white helmets must love Jim Lad. False news is alive and well. I suppose Assad and his band of merry men trashed swathes of Iraq and Libya as well?

Of course jimmie has not an iota of proof for his allegations, but why let lack of facts spoil the fairy tales?
Interesting use of the word legitimate opponents. What totally corkscrewed logic gives legitimacy to the opponents of the elected government. They are simply rebels. The fact Uncle Sam arms and trains them and is trying hard to give the Kurds independence in the north,
cannot alter the illegality of their respective actions.
The Russians and Iranians are in Syria because they were invited. The Americans are there just to what? destabilise the country? trash the infrastructure? bankrupt the government? kill civilians?

Does not seen a very humanitarian mission to me. So what is the real mission of the illegal war the US is waging?

Subject: RE: BS: Syrian Conflict
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Feb 18 - 03:14 PM

So far you have no insight of the west's positive influence.

I can see both sides

You sound trained to see only one.

Subject: RE: BS: Syrian Conflict
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Feb 18 - 03:20 PM

"Goebbels and the white helmets must love Jim Lad. "
More insuts - sure sign of uncrtainty
"False news is alive and well."
Dont be so fucking stupid - this is happening in view of the whole world

Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Syrian Conflict
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Feb 18 - 03:27 PM

False news is alive and well.

Yup - that's your boy tRump & co.

Subject: RE: BS: Syrian Conflict
From: Iains
Date: 24 Feb 18 - 03:46 PM

I see jimmie the ranters back on form. Got a good supply of dummies?


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/nov/30/us-coalition-airstrikes-iraqi-syrian-civilians
I bet those figures are an underestimate. An illegal war therefore the deaths are murders.

Subject: RE: BS: Syrian Conflict
From: robomatic
Date: 24 Feb 18 - 08:11 PM

I come to the Syria question without an in-depth knowledge of the players, especially Syria. I am a well known partisan for Israel. Once upon a time I was staying at a Christian hostel in Amsterdam, run by an Israeli. In between reading little tracts of the gospels I was talking to the Israeli who told me I should visit Israel but time the visit not to coincide with the coming war with Syria. It was the early 80s and he was serious at the time, although the war did not occur. I returned to the States just as Israel was crossing the border with Lebanon. I 'member a British publication opining that the Israelis were people of the book as in they were in Lebanon in "eye-for-an-eye" mode.

Sometime after this a Canadian housewife started a program to evacuate Jews from Syria. They were only a few thousand in number and members of an ancient community (not unlike the Yazidis), but they were in an impossible situation, essentially wards of a Shiite dictator who sort of protected them from the prejudices of a Sunni Majority. They were not free in any sense, nor were they free to leave.

Syria was otherwise thought of as a relatively stable secular tyranny run by a competent dictator who kept the economy going, a strong military and a strong nationalist Arabist political doctrine (Baathism, related to the Iraqi party but of course not the same). When he was opposed he responded with absolute violence (Hama). His son took over for him and appeared at first to be a kinder gentler version of the old man but that has gone way by the boards.

One of my first memories of the Syrian version of the "Arab Spring" was a reporter describing coming upon a circle of Syrians who were simply going to protest the dictatorship and were expecting to be killed in the process. Nevertheless they were going to try.

Considering the overall high level of education and wealth of the Syrian people, this is an especially tragic and violent set of circumstances. I truly do not see how this accrues to anyone's benefit, nor if it does, how this is worth the candle.

The Russians probably regard this as withing their sphere of influence, but considering the resources they put into fighting the insurgency, they probably don't believe they got much bang for their bucks. The U.S. seems to have been lackluster as well, given that it has to vet the secular insurgents from the religious fanatic insurgents (is that even possible?).

So vast quantities of civilians have been subjected to a long war with dull knives rather than a conclusive short sharp shock. Seems to me that the constant cease-fires and appeals to humanity have simply extended the torture.

If I started this period as a Syrian Muslim seven years ago, I'd do my best to be a modern European Atheist about now. Of all the leaders in this obscenity of violence I respect Angela Merkel most. She is the de facto leader of the Western World thanks to the virtual abdication of the other parties who refuse to take responsibility.

Subject: RE: BS: Syrian Conflict
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Feb 18 - 08:45 PM

"I bet those figures are an underestimate."
those figures ARE A JOKE COMPARED TO THESE
Jim Caarroll

Subject: RE: BS: Syrian Conflict
From: Iains
Date: 25 Feb 18 - 04:10 AM

Interesting Assad is made out to be the original bad boy in this war.
He was running a secular country where various religions had coexisted for centuries. Strange that Saudi has not been subjected to the same machinations. The contrast between the secular society of Syria and the repressive religious society of Saudi never rates a mention. Nothing to do with the oil of course? and the desperate need for Quatar to have a
pipeline to turn all that gas into cash. Of course such a pipeline would be arranged to undercut the russian equivalent,Nord Stream in order to give the Russian Bear a poke in the eye.
The proxies are getting whapped, hence a ceasefire so the allies can regroup, rearm and revitalise their murderous scum. Of course having lived and worked there in Syria for some years when it all kicked off, I know nothing. I spent all my time wandering around with my eyes and ears shut. Having worked on gaswells in Quatar, I know nothing about that either.
Some have a different hymn book
Questions?
Questions?

Subject: RE: BS: Syrian Conflict
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Feb 18 - 06:16 AM

He had prisons full of opponents and was using torture and mass murder to dispose of them
FAKE NEWS 1
FAKE NEWS 2
FAKE NEWS 3
AND THE BEAT GOES ON 1
AND THE BEAT GOES ON 2

If you want more of this - how log have you got?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Syrian Conflict
From: Iains
Date: 25 Feb 18 - 06:38 AM

I do not collect logs. Is this your distraction ruse, instead of the usual babbling about weeds?

Subject: RE: BS: Syrian Conflict
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Feb 18 - 06:46 AM

"logs"
Tyops - pathetic !!
Pretty inevitable (and even more pathetic) that you ignore the facts of the Assad regime, though I'm sure that the denials are on the way
Pity you can't use your mate Guido - he has no doubt about what a monster this killer is - he uses it to attack te Labour Party
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Syrian Conflict
From: Iains
Date: 25 Feb 18 - 07:23 AM

No jimmy. What is pathetic is that you hoover up everything in the media about Syria, and question none of it.
You are part of the dream team for the propagandists.

As Billy Cotton would say: Wakey, Wakey!

Subject: RE: BS: Syrian Conflict
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Feb 18 - 08:16 AM

Posted on wrong thread - never mind - it serves both equally
You appear to have retreated from your defence of this monster and are now throwing up a diversionary smokescreen to cover your retreat Iains - a bit obvious
Typos and red herrings - you really are not very good at this, are you?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Syrian Conflict
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Feb 18 - 09:56 AM

Germany is taking more of the refugees. If Syria is in Russia's sphere of influence how many refugees do they take and why>

Subject: RE: BS: Syrian Conflict
From: Iains
Date: 25 Feb 18 - 12:44 PM

"Typos and red herrings - you really are not very good at this, are you?"
I knew the sour little scouser was an antique, But I did not realise he was old enough to be a court jester!

http://www.news.com.au/world/middle-east/is-the-fight-over-a-gas-pipeline-fuelling-the-worlds-bloodiest-conflict/news-story/74ef

A lot of that middle eastern oil and gas has to navigate the The Strait of Hormuz. It provides the only sea passage from the Persian Gulf to the open ocean and is one of the world's most strategically important choke points. At its narrowest point, the strait is 21 miles across and consists of 2-mile wide navigable channels for inbound and outbound shipping and a 2-mile-wide buffer zone. and guess what? Iran has the eastern bank. Should the channel ever be closed there would be some seriously unhappy people around the world.

Subject: RE: BS: Syrian Conflict
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Feb 18 - 01:08 PM

A repetition of your childishness - with a link that doesn't work
IS THIS ANY HELP?
You really aren't very good at this, are you?
Perhaps you should have stayed in the pub!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Syrian Conflict
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 25 Feb 18 - 01:49 PM

Iran really has the northern bank, not the eastern, seeing as the strait runs pretty near east-west. And why are you more worried about them that the two countries which hold the southern bank?

Subject: RE: BS: Syrian Conflict
From: Iains
Date: 25 Feb 18 - 03:53 PM

Iran is to the east of the Persian Gulf and the middle eastern countries bottle necked by the Straits of Hormuz. If you wish to argue the minutiae of location of the straits that is a matter for you. It has always been a fear that in a period of international tension Iran would blockade the straits. There are insufficient International pipelines in the area for alternative routings to be used for export of crude and gas. As these countries are bankrolled by hydrocarbon sales, any interruption would hurt very quickly. This would impact both them and their destination markets.

Jimmy I have not been in a pub for over 2 years. Just remember I too have the ability to get personal. I seem to remember you got quite upset last time someone had a dig at you. I do not care for people insinuating I have been drinking. Just behave yourself!

Subject: RE: BS: Syrian Conflict
From: Iains
Date: 25 Feb 18 - 06:23 PM

"A temporary CEASE FIRE IS AGREED UPON DESPITE RUSSIA EXCEPTIONS"
Not quite as precise as you make out.
Resolution 2401 has the following:

“2. Affirms that the cessation of hostilities shall not apply to military operations against the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (ISIL, also known as Da’esh), Al Qaeda and Al Nusra Front (ANF), and all other individuals, groups, undertakings and entities associated with Al Qaeda or ISIL, and other terrorist groups, as designated by the Security Council;

Levant also includes Syria

Subject: RE: BS: Syrian Conflict
From: robomatic
Date: 26 Feb 18 - 08:32 PM

Last night (Sunday 25 Feb 2018) 60 Minutes had a segment on recent events in Syria concentrating on what it clearly states is repeated use by the Syrian regime of nerve gas on civilians.

I can't help but feel that all sides are cynical in this matter, with the exception of the civilians, who are not capable of acting, just being acted upon.

Subject: RE: BS: Syrian Conflict
From: Iains
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 03:31 AM

I can clearly state that the moon is made of green cheese! So What?
What kind of idiot gasses hid supporters when he is winning?

The western press clearly supports regime change in Syria and their reporting is very selective.
Seems to me the factions that use civilians as human shields are by far the most likely to stage incidents involving gas.
“We refuse categorically any initiative that includes getting the residents out of their homes and moving them elsewhere,” Ghouta rebel factions wrote in a letter to the Security Council."

https://www.un.org/press/en/2018/sc13219.doc.htm
There is little information coming from the area that is not carefully massaged for the target audience. Truth generally takes a backseat.