BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 01:11 PM

Jim, what has the number of Labour members got to do with it?

"45 female Labour MPs write to Jeremy Corbyn demanding he does more to stop 'disgusting' abuse from supporters"

"JEREMY CORBYN HAS BEEN ACCUSED BY NEARLY HALF THE FEMALE MPS IN HIS PARTY OF FAILING TO STOP THE "DISGUSTING AND TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE" ABUSE OF WOMEN BY HIS SUPPORTERS."

That is the unvarnished truth and an indisputable fact. Both ways of putting it.

Please keep posting them in huge red capitals.

You are refusing to respond to any other point made

Put them up one at a time and I will.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 01:04 PM

"Let him go, let him go, God help him
Whatever he may be"
Somewhat apposite, given the subject of the song!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Raggytash
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 12:41 PM

Gentlemen, I have suggested that he is suffering from some form of dementia and each day the evidence grows stronger.

All I have done today is to use the same report (albeit from a different source) to quote his own figures back to him. I would like to note this fact.

HIS figures are the same as mine which indicate 37 Conservative MP's are the subjects of allegations of sexual impropriety and 4 Labour MP's are subject to the same scrutiny.

Given the numbers of MP's for each party this indicates clearly, unequivitably and without question that more than 1 in 10 Conservative MP's are subject to scrutiny while less than 1 in 60 Labour MP's are so listed.

I cannot speak for anyone else but this would indicate to me that the Conservatives have a much deeper, and posssibly rooted, problem to deal with. Let us hope for the victims of this abuse they succeed in weeding the offenders out.

You will have noticed no doubt that once again someone is trying the move the goalpost. No change there.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 12:29 PM

"It is the truth and thanks for highlighting it again."
For Christs sake Keith The Labour Party had tens of thousands of women members - your own link from the Telegraph mentions a letter by forty five members
Vfont color=red>"45 female Labour MPs write to Jeremy Corbyn demanding he does more to stop 'disgusting' abuse from supporters"
You were asked whether they had a petition to get the opinion of the rest of the membership so you are fully aware of this
You really are insane
You are refusing to respond to any other point made - you continue to use raped and persecuted women to score political points
You are depraved
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 12:17 PM

Jim,,
"JEREMY CORBYN HAS BEEN ACCUSED BY NEARLY HALF THE FEMALE MPS IN HIS PARTY OF FAILING TO STOP THE "DISGUSTING AND TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE" ABUSE OF WOMEN BY HIS SUPPORTERS."
That was a lie

It is the truth and thanks for highlighting it again.
It is the opening sentence of this article.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/22/45-female-labour-mps-write-to-jeremy-corbyn-demanding-he-does-mo/

Rag, your dossier was only on Tory MPs and there is no comparable survey on other parties to compare it with.
The 4 Labour MPs mentioned were unconnected.

Dave,
Well, I don't recall you ever having said that the Tories had the same problem.

1st March
"I had read your Indie piece thanks, and also a Guardian article.
Neither contradict anything I said."

Those pieces were about "Andrea Leadsome investigation that has seen Tory and Labour MPs suspended? " I accepted that fact without question.

Also 1st March, "I have only intimated that there are more accusations of rape within Labour than other parties. "

So however you interpret one statement of mine I have never denied and always accepted that it happens in other parties too. That is so obvious anyway it does not need saying.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Raggytash
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 09:56 AM

The figures were also supplied by the idiot himself, or so he says.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 09:54 AM

Bollocks . No-one would would do that

I have just explained I am aware of at least 6 people that did. Your rational answer to that is 'Bollocks'? No real argument so you resort to abuse. Not like you Keith.

I have acknowledged from the start that the Tories do have that particular problem anyway. It is just the scale of the problem under discussion.

Well, I don't recall you ever having said that the Tories had the same problem. In fact your phrase was "other parties do not have such a problem" but, what the heck, you admit that they do now. Apology accepted. Yes, it is indeed a question of scale and as Raggy has pointed out the issue seems to be 6 times as bad with the Tories. I am not convinced that this is right and strongly suspect that the number or abusers, as a percentage, is pretty level across the political spectrum. As it is across all walks of life.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Raggytash
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 09:51 AM

"It is just the scale of the problem under discussion." OK, so lets have another look at the figures again.

The Conservatives have 316 Mp's 37 of whom are subject to allegations of sexual impropriety. More than 1 in 10.

Labour have 259 MP's 4 of whom are subject to allegations of sexual impropriety. Less than 1 in 60.

It would seem that the Conservatives have a far bigger problem than than Labour, seemingly at least 6 times greater.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 09:41 AM

"So you now accept that your repeated accusations of lying were false."
I most certainly don't - I mistakenly quoted a later adaptation of your original claim which was (one more time) "JEREMY CORBYN HAS BEEN ACCUSED BY NEARLY HALF THE FEMALE MPS IN HIS PARTY OF FAILING TO STOP THE "DISGUSTING AND TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE" ABUSE OF WOMEN BY HIS SUPPORTERS."
That was a lie - your denial of having said it was a lie and your repetition of it was a lie
You have (as usual ) lied in order to use raped and molested women as a means of denigrating a Party that has historically shown more respect for women than any other party
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 09:30 AM

Rag,
Which clearly shows 4 labour MP's were included, as I suspect does the Times link but it cannot be accessed without subscription.

I do not pay. You can open a free account for a limited number of articles per week.

The 4 Labour MPs were not part of the dossier which only looked at Tory MPs.
The dossier was not just about offences against women as the examples showed, and some of the accusations were against women.

Dave,
BTW - I do not interpret "other parties do not have such a problem" as "other parties have no problem." but as "other parties do not have this particular problem"

Bollocks . No-one would would do that, and I have acknowledged from the start that the Tories do have that particular problem anyway. It is just the scale of the problem under discussion.

Jim,
"It is a fact Jim and I have proved it with media quotes."
A mistake on my part

So you now accept that your repeated accusations of lying were false.
I deserve an apology.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 08:35 AM

"It is a fact Jim and I have proved it with media quotes."
A mistake on my part
You originally claimed that "JEREMY CORBYN HAS BEEN ACCUSED BY NEARLY HALF THE FEMALE MPS IN HIS PARTY OF FAILING TO STOP THE "DISGUSTING AND TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE" ABUSE OF WOMEN BY HIS SUPPORTERS."
The figure may have been 40 MPs - there is no indication that anybody outside Paarliament have complained, there is no indication that these people are "Jeremy Corbyn's supporters" - Labour has been riven with in-fighting since Corbyn came on the scene because of his attempted change of direction.
Antisemitism was proven to have been concocted by Israel as an attempt to undermine his leadership
Of course harassment is a feature in Parliament - as it is in every other walk of society.
Labour women are far more likely to complain than are Tories - they are my their nature far mor militant - the left has always played a mahjor lead in feminism and the Tories have always fought to keep women "in their place" - that i is the nature of left and right politics.
There in no indication anywhere that Labour harassment is any more serious than that of the other Parties - nobody has suggested that that is the case
The worst sexual scandals have been by the priveliged - House of Lords members who have pleaded they are unfit for trial because of theirt mental condition, the Dolphin Sqaure Covver up, the recent Park Lane hotel disclosures, Harvey Proctor, Damien Green...
In every case, their leaders "stood by them" as long as they could
Our very society is tilted to defend the wealthy and powerful from these charges - our justice system is based on "You will get the best defence money can buy"
How many complainants have been bought off on condition that "you don't talk to the press"
Making a political crusade of rape is not only obscene (a type of abuse in itself), it is also ludicrous when these cases touch every part of our society
Can I seriously suggest to all that we stop giving this sick attention-seeker the "oxygen of publicity" that he is seeking
He has lied consistently - first claiming that half Labour women have v=complained, then denying that he said it, then back to the same ludicrous claim
We relly need to stop encouraging this guy from making Mudcat a platform for his hate and bigotry
Jim Caarroll

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 07:40 AM

BTW - I do not interpret "other parties do not have such a problem" as "other parties have no problem." but as "other parties do not have this particular problem"

such
s?t?/
determiner, predeterminer, & pronoun
determiner: such; pronoun: such

    1.
    of the type previously mentioned.
    "I have been involved in many such courses"
    2.
    of the type about to be mentioned.
    "there is no such thing as a free lunch"

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Raggytash
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 07:40 AM

Link to my source

Which clearly shows 4 labour MP's were included, as I suspect does the Times link but it cannot be accessed without subscription.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 07:30 AM

Bollocks Dave.
I do not believe that anyone would interpret "other parties do not have such a problem" as "other parties have no problem."

So, you disbelieve what I say. Fair enough, that is your right. I know it to be true as do the others I asked. Your opinion on that is neither here nor there. The 'respect' that you have gained on this site is a good indication of other peoples opinions of you too.

I am glad you do not believe that Labour party members are more likely to be antisemitic or abusers of women. Next question then. If they are not, how do you account for the alleged greater problem that the Labour party is supposed to have?

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 07:27 AM

link to source of Rag's story.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/dirty-dossier-accuses-mps-of-harassment-and-sex-in-offices-6f7q8kn8b

The research only considered Tory MPs.

Jackaroo,
I think often the best way to interpret a riposte is to look at what goes unanswered.

What have I left unanswered please?

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Raggytash
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 07:23 AM

You know Dave you didn't put enough wriggles in.

Wriggle, wriggle, wriggle and more wriggle.

The FACT remains that more than 1 in ten Conservative MP's have had allegations made against them and the FACT is that less than 1 in sixty Labour MP's have.

Ergo the Conservatives have a problem at least 6 times larger.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 07:22 AM

Dave,
No-one would interpret "other parties do not have such a problem" as "other parties have no problem."
I did and a straw poll amongst my peers reveals that they did too.

Bollocks Dave.
I do not believe that anyone would interpret "other parties do not have such a problem" as "other parties have no problem."

Are members of the Labour party more likely to be antisemitic and to abuse women than members of any other political party?

No, but there is evidence that Labour has a greater problem.
Much greater in terms of anti-Semitism.

Numerous prominent and senior Labour people and the entire NEC which includes the leadership say that Labour has a serious problem with anti-Semitism.
They do not say that of any other party and only Labour Jews have reported anti-Semitism from their own party.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Jackaroodave
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 07:18 AM

Raggytash: "Don't know about you Jackaroo but it seems to me that someone is clutching at straws and trying to move the goal posts. Not really addressing the FACT that the Conservative party has a bigger problem as CLEARLY demonstrated by my link."

Yeah, I think often the best way to interpret a riposte is to look at what goes unanswered.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 07:12 AM

Some points from Rag's story, (originally Dave's and mine) from the original source.
The research quoted only consideed Tory MPs.
The accusation against 4 Labour MPs were made elsewhere.

"It includes claims of sexual misconduct against 37 male and female politicians, including sexual harassment allegations and reported extramarital affairs. More than 25 are alleged to have been “inappropriate with female researchers”."

Examples given,
"A prominent female MP is accused of having extramarital sex with young male researchers. At least two MPs are accused of getting their mistresses pregnant, with one allegedly paying for her to have an abortion. Other MPs have reportedly had sex in their private offices in Westminster while two Conservative politicians are accused of using the services of prostitutes.
The list also alleges that a video is circulating of one Tory backbencher engaged in an extreme sex act with three men."

No suggestion of anything no-consensual.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 07:04 AM

No-one would interpret "other parties do not have such a problem" as "other parties have no problem."

I did and a straw poll amongst my peers reveals that they did too. Therefore saying 'no-one would' is invalid. I suspect, but cannot give an exact number, that many other people would also interpret it as I did. Whether you phrased in in such a way to be ambiguous on purpose or by accident is known only to you. Given your track record I suspect the former.


Yeh, OK, the rabid antisemitic rapist has an element of poetic license in it but it is not too far from what you are saying. Answer this simple question if you dare.

Are members of the Labour party more likely to be antisemitic and to abuse women than members of any other political party?

A simple yes or no is all that is required.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Raggytash
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 07:02 AM

Don't know about you Jackaroo but it seems to me that someone is clutching at straws and trying to move the goal posts.

Not really addressing the FACT that the Conservative party has a bigger problem as CLEARLY demonstrated by my link.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 06:53 AM

Jackaroo,

Thanks. It is a refreshing change to be able to exchange views without being abused, accused of lying and told my words mean something else.

Keith, by denying that women will keep quiet about abuse and rape, you simply disqualify yourself from discussing the phenomenon.

I would not deny it.
It happens because of terrible circumstances.

The circumstances of female Labour and Tory politicians are very similar and I would like to know why one should be less likely to complain than the other.

I think the article posted by Raggytash is sufficient rebuttal

it is a rebuttal of your suggestion that Tory women do not complain.
They clearly do.

However, only Labour women MPs need to write en-masse to complain to their leadership, and there is a "Labour Too" movement but no equivalent for any other party.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Raggytash
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 06:52 AM

Isn't it strange Dave that MORE than one in ten Conservative MP's have had allegations made against them yet Labour MP's who have LESS than one in sixty allegations made against them have a bigger problem.

You do the maths for me would you and let me know who has the greater problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 06:39 AM

Dave, no wriggling from me.
I stand by what I said.

You are talking bollocks.
No-one would interpret "other parties do not have such a problem" as "other parties have no problem.

I said what I said.
The meaning is clear.
You have made yourself foolish.

According to Keefyboy if you are a member of the Labour party you are more likely to be a rabid antisemitic rapist than if you belong to any other political party.

Again you resort to lying about me because your case is rubbish.

Jim,
""Over 40 female Labour MPs have written to party " (a lie)

It is a fact Jim and I have proved it with media quotes.
Please put it in huge red capitals again.

"I said no such thing." (another lie)

Another truth. I had not said what I was accused of saying. You lied.

" "JEREMY CORBYN HAS BEEN ACCUSED BY OF FAILING TO STOP THE "DISGUSTING AND TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE" ABUSE OF WOMEN BY HIS SUPPORTERS." - a lie

A truth Jim. Again please use bigger and redder capitals.

Proof of truth, BBC,
"Over 40 female Labour MPs have written to party leader Jeremy Corbyn urging him to do more to tackle abuse of MPs.
The letter highlighted an "extremely worrying trend of escalating abuse and hostility" towards MPs in recent weeks.
Women were disproportionately affected by these "disgusting and totally unacceptable" incidents, it said.
Leadership rival Owen Smith has accused Mr Corbyn of not doing enough to clamp down on "intolerance and misogyny"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36864903

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Jackaroodave
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 06:31 AM

Keith: "Your argument requires that women from other parties are being abused and raped but keeping quiet about it. They would not, and as evidence I would point out that a few have made complaints and action has been taken. Labour women complain that they are ignored."

Keith, by denying that women will keep quiet about abuse and rape, you simply disqualify yourself from discussing the phenomenon.

I think the article posted by Raggytash is sufficient rebuttal, but I would add that the Me Too movement and the current news are replete with stories of rape and harassment that occurred years ago and which describe a culture of harassment that existed for decades.

As Jim Carroll pointed out, this culture is endemic where men wield disproportionate power. Time will tell if the British party of tradition and privilege is the world's sole exception.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 06:20 AM

If I have lied, quote me.
""Over 40 female Labour MPs have written to party " (a lie)
"I said no such thing." (another lie)
"It is true." - a complete reversal
" "JEREMY CORBYN HAS BEEN ACCUSED BY OF FAILING TO STOP THE "DISGUSTING AND TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE" ABUSE OF WOMEN BY HIS SUPPORTERS." - a lie
You claimed the telegraph claimed "NEARLY HALF THE FEMALE MPS IN HIS PARTY" complained - in fact the Telegraph claimed that 42 members did - women labour party members number into the 100 thousands - over 100 in parliament (more than double the Conservative women - which says everything about how conservatives regard women) you misquoted the Telegraph - you lied
You have just deliberately misquotes Jackaroo
"Your argument requires that women from other parties are being abused and raped but keeping quiet about it."
What he actually said was that Labour women have a mechanism to complain about abuse - Conservative women have nos such voice - again, you lied
You have lied from start to finish on this question
Will that do for now?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 05:31 AM

According to Keefyboy if you are a member of the Labour party you are more likely to be a rabid antisemitic rapist than if you belong to any other political party. I suppose I should either give up my membership or go and shoot myself now.

By the same logic, because there are very few complaints about the abuse of Women or antisemitism in, say, Pakistan or Saudi Arabia then there must be fewer incidents relating to these in those countries.

Barking mad.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Raggytash
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 05:26 AM

The thread is entitled Sexual Impropriety at WESTMINSTER.

When someone can come up with figures from elsewhere it can then, and only then, be considered and discussed. It is pure conjecture at the moment.

What is FACT is that the Conservatives have a far bigger problem than Labour.

Once again someone is seeking to move the goalposts when they have lost an argument. No change there.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 05:23 AM

That is bollocks.
No-one would interpret "not such a problem" as "no problem."

But you did not say "not such a problem" did you. You said "other parties do not have such a problem" - Different thing altogether which I and many others would interpret as the other parties do not have the same problem.

Stop digging and wriggling.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 05:18 AM

Rag, that story is restricted to MPs.
The 43 Labour women MPs and Labour Too are addressing behaviour by all party members.

BI lifted that whole story from the Times.
See the original here,
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/dirty-dossier-accuses-mps-of-harassment-and-sex-in-offices-6f7q8kn8b

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Raggytash
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 05:06 AM

It would seem that some people cannot see the truth when it is right in front of them. For example "other parties do not have such a problem"

The Conservatives have 316 Mp's 37 of whom are subject to allegations of sexual impropriety. More than 1 in 10.

Labour have 259 MP's 4 of whom are subject to allegations of sexual impropriety. Less than 1 in 60.

It would seem that the Conservatives have a far bigger problem than than Labour, seemingly at least 6 times greater.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 04:50 AM

Dave,
Interpretation by the rest of the world. "Other parties do not have a problem."

That is bollocks.
No-one would interpret "not such a problem" as "no problem."

You just can not answer what I say so pretend I said something else.

Jim,
Keith
Go stuff your obnoxious and lying tactics

If I have lied, quote me.
Good luck with that, liar.

Jackaroo,
Your argument requires that women from other parties are being abused and raped but keeping quiet about it.
They would not, and as evidence I would point out that a few have made complaints and action has been taken.
Labour women complain that they are ignored.

Rag, Dave posted that story on 28Feb and later gave a link.
It was also in my first BBC link posted on first March.

Try actually reading instead of just sniping from the sidelines.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 03:51 AM

Nice one Jack a definite "wish I'd said that"
I'm look forward to watching The Oscars some time this week with all those lovely 'ladies in black' (including the wonderful Frances McDormand, who prefers to put her anger into words and wear what she likes)
It's about time this anger filtered down to every layer of society
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Raggytash
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 03:45 AM

As the link I placed yesterday seemed to be giving trouble to several people I have copied the article from Business Insider.

Westminster engulfed in growing scandal as nearly 40 MPs, including Cabinet and former Cabinet ministers, are accused of inappropriate behaviour including sexual harassment.
Dossier put together by Westminster researchers accuses MPs of sexual harassment, unwanted advances and extramarital sex with parliamentary staff.
Theresa May and government whips were allegedly aware of allegations made against Conservative MPs.
Four Labour MPs are also accused and the party fears more will emerge.


LONDON — Theresa May is under pressure to explain exactly when she knew about the scale of the growing sexual harassment scandal in Parliament after dozens of Tory MPs were engulfed in allegations of unwanted sexual advances and behaving inappropriately towards members of staff.

A group of Westminster researchers have put together a list of nearly 40 Conservative MPs, including several members of May's Cabinet, who have had allegations made against them over the last five years, according to The Times.

The prime minister has been aware of the allegations, The Times claims, because government whips have been giving her weekly briefings on accusations made against her MPs by Westminster employees. May's spokesperson will this morning face questions from journalists about exactly what the prime minister knew and when.

The scandal is expected to spread over the coming days with at least four Labour MPs also accused of harassing young women who work in Westminster, including two who have at some point served in leader Jeremy Corbyn's shadow Cabinet.


May has written to the House of Commons Speaker, John Bercow, urging him to establish a mediation service for Westminster staff wanting to report the inappropriate behaviour of MPs, the Guardian reports.

The Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority has recommended that a grievance procedure is incorporated in contracts of Westminster employees, providing them with a means of raising concerns and complaints.

However, MPs are technically self-employed, meaning they are not legally obliged to provide this outlet to their employees.

"It does not have the required teeth as contractually an MP does not have to follow the procedure. I do not believe this situation can be tolerated any longer," the prime minister said in a letter to Bercow.

What are MPs accused of?
The dossier, seen by The Times, includes a long list of allegations against 37 serving male and female MPs, including sexual harassment and extramarital affairs. Those named in the list include:

A long-serving Conservative backbencher accused of being "perpetually intoxicated and very inappropriate with women."
A Tory MP who is alleged to have agreed a "non-disclosure" settlement with another MP's researcher.
A current Cabinet minister who is accused of being "handsy at parties" and another minister who has allegedly been nicknamed "Cop-a-feel."
Other allegations include two MPs accused of getting their mistresses pregnant and two Tory MPs accused of using prostitutes. A well-known female MP is alleged to have had affairs with young male researchers. There is also a video in circulation of a Conservative backbencher engaged in an "extreme sex act" with three men, the dossier alleges.

The Guardian reports that rumours are spreading of one Conservative MP who "allegedly takes pictures of young men in compromising positions and uses them to extract sexual favours."

The allegations include mainly Conservative politicians but Labour MPs believe more will emerge within their party.

"We’re not going to be immune from it," Labour MP Lucy Powell said. "It’s the attitudes and the power inequalities, whether it’s Hollywood, the BBC or Westminster."

Westminster figures believe the allegations, plus more that may emerge in the coming days and weeks, could trigger several high-profile resignations and possibly bring the government down.

What MPs have been named?
Two Conservative MPs named in the dossier have already admitted to allegations made against them.

Trade minister Mark Garnier is facing a parliamentary investigation after admitting to asking one his assistants to purchase sex toys for him.

Stephen Crabb, the former work and pensions secretary, apologised over the weekend after admitting sending inappropriate text messages to a 19-year-old woman who had hoped to work in his office. Crabb described the messages as "sexual chatter." Crabb was forced to quit his Cabinet position last year after it emerged that he sent explicit messages to a young woman during the EU referendum campaign.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Mar 18 - 03:16 PM

Thank you for providing the cold light of reason in the heat of the current discussion, Jackaroodave. I have tried to put across the same point but not as eloquently on a number of occasions with reference to accusations of a similar type in the past. Hopefully, as you do not have a history of conflict with Keith, your argument may be taken on board.

Sadly, I doubt it but thanks again anyway.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Jackaroodave
Date: 04 Mar 18 - 03:05 PM

Keith: "The reason I think other parties do not have such a problem is that A.Their women MPs do not write en-masse to complain like Labour's do, and B. Because there is a "Labour Too" movement but no equivalent for any other party."

Keith, I would draw the exact opposite conclusion from the evidence you provided. If we accept your inference, then by parity of reasoning, present-day, democratic countries with strong feminist movements are the setting for the exponentially greatest frequency of sexual harassment in recorded history.

To take a recent example, in the 90s, when women accused Bill Clinton of sexual harassment there was no groundswell of Democratic women picking up the torches and pitchforks to oppose his nomination--and renomination. Are you going to tell me with a straight face that was because there wasn't any back then?

Protest and ruckus swell not when conditions are worst, but when there is some hope of change. I apologize for repeating a truism, but it seems necessary.

Similarly, in the US, senior legislator John Conyers and Boy-Wonder Senator Al Franken, both Democratic heroes, were forced out by their own party, while Republican intra-party pressure on alleged child abusers and serial wife beaters has been slight, tardy, and reluctant.

The absence of a coordinated protest among Tory women in light of . . . well, reality, is chilling to me, not reassuring.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Mar 18 - 01:27 PM

other parties do not have such a problem

Interpretation by Keith "They do have a problem but it is not as bad."

Interpretation by the rest of the world. "Other parties do not have a problem."

Different morality
Different language
Different planet

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Mar 18 - 01:19 PM

Let's make this clear
The persecution of women is as old as history itself - it is a social rather than a political phenomenon
It is a practice carried out by MEN of all political persuasions or none at all
THe only political aspect of the act is that used by our own wee jobbie who wishes to score political points for his party he has used Muslims Travellers and Irish children for the same twisted reason
Any political difference lies in the actions of the political parties in ending this practice - Corbyn has attemptedt ot stop it - up to now, May has "stood by her ministers" when the practice has been uncovered - Damien Green the porno liar being a typical example
When an investigation was carried out, the Government watered it down before making it public
The "rising star" the Tory party has made her own position clear - those who have complained are oversensitive prudes- doen't auger well for women in her party
Sexual harassment is part of our unequal society - philosophically he is making the right noises in wanting to make our society a more equal one - hopefully he will continue to do so (hence his unpopularity with the right
Right-wing politics is based on an unequal society - it relies on a subservient population who will allow themselves to be used by the priveleged.   
Keith is fairly typical of teh right - he leaps to teh defence of Poorno-king Greene and is happy to use raped and persecuted women as an election campaign - 'vote for us - the other side are all molesters and rapists'
His behaviour makes him as culpable of the most serious sex pest
Keith
Go stuff your obnoxious and lying tactics up as far as you can
You are sick
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Mar 18 - 01:19 PM

Let's make this clear
The persecution of women is as old as history itself - it is a social rather than a political phenomenon
It is a practice carried out by MEN of all political persuasions or none at all
THe only political aspect of the act is that used by our own wee jobbie who wishes to score political points for his party he has used Muslims Travellers and Irish children for the same twisted reason
Any political difference lies in the actions of the political parties in ending this practice - Corbyn has attemptedt ot stop it - up to now, May has "stood by her ministers" when the practice has been uncovered - Damien Green the porno liar being a typical example
When an investigation was carried out, the Government watered it down before making it public
The "rising star" the Tory party has made her own position clear - those who have complained are oversensitive prudes- doen't auger well for women in her party
Sexual harassment is part of our unequal society - philosophically he is making the right noises in wanting to make our society a more equal one - hopefully he will continue to do so (hence his unpopularity with the right
Right-wing politics is based on an unequal society - it relies on a subservient population who will allow themselves to be used by the priveleged.   
Keith is fairly typical of teh right - he leaps to teh defence of Poorno-king Greene and is happy to use raped and persecuted women as an election campaign - 'vote for us - the other side are all molesters and rapists'
His behaviour makes him as culpable of the most serious sex pest
Keith
Go stuff your obnoxious and lying tactics up as far as you can
You are sick
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Raggytash
Date: 04 Mar 18 - 01:15 PM

He really is a misguided infantile little person isn't he.

This is despite being shown that I only agreed with Jim's statement:

"Can we leave this feller to sink in his own swill lads, I really don't want to be around when they come for him!!!"

That is there in black and white for all to see and still he continues to try and suggest otherwise.

I really do think he is in the throes of dementia, a dementia that is getting worse by the day.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Mar 18 - 12:59 PM

Jim,
Please continue to re-post my factual statements in huge red capitals for me.
It must greatly increase their impact.

And Rag, please continue your support by telling Jim how much you agree.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Mar 18 - 12:49 PM

Dave,
It is what you said and it is there for all to see

Yes, and hear it is again.

"I suspect that it is because other parties do not have such a problem, as Labour did not until recent times."

No wriggling from me Dave.
I do indeed suspect that, and I stand by it.

The reason I think other parties do not have such a problem is that

A.Their women MPs do not write en-masse to complain like Labour's do, and

B. Because there is a "Labour Too" movement but no equivalent for any other party.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Mar 18 - 12:36 PM

so you pretend I said something else.
despicable.

I am not pretending anything. It is what you said and it is there for all to see. It is you who are being despicabley dishonest and you will just Not stop digging yourself further in.

Not often you see that. Barking mad wrigley worm.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Mar 18 - 11:32 AM

I got the same thing Raggy - tried to unblock it but it wouldn't listen - like one of our contributors (time for the drain-rods in the case of the latter)!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Mar 18 - 11:32 AM

I got the same thing Raggy - tried to unblock it but it wouldn't listen - like one of our contributors (time for the drain-rods in the case of the latter)!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Raggytash
Date: 04 Mar 18 - 11:25 AM

I cannot explain that David, I've just checked it now with no problem. Could I suggest that you try again or look up the article that uk.businessinsider.com under politics.

Cheers

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 04 Mar 18 - 10:30 AM

Raggy that link asks me to disable my adblocker, sorry I will not do that for anyone.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Raggytash
Date: 04 Mar 18 - 09:01 AM

With regard to the subject matter that some would have us believe is a mainly Labour issue.

Conservative Impropriety????

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Mar 18 - 08:58 AM

Moving on
Sexual harassment i Westminster is no different to any other section of society - it is a manifestation of the influential, powerful - or even just strong, wielding their power over those less powerful or weaker
Clerical abuse, Savile, Weinstock.... are all examples of this - abuse to obtain sex - or just to display 'superiority'.
It has always happened in every section of society and today's revelations are a sign that (hopefully) it is coming to an end and women are beginning to assert themselves as equal human beings
Pretending this is anything else is just a sick gamer
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual impropriety at Westminster
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Mar 18 - 08:32 AM

Rag and Steve
This has become about this maniac, which is how he works
We really are not qualified to deal with somebody with Keith's problems
If we want to keep this subject, let's move on and leave him to his specialists - anybody who turns child rape, and sexual abuse of women into a politcal campaign no behalf of his party is beyond reason - stay away from him - it might beinfectious
Jim Carroll