Is a singer a musician?

Subject: RE: Is a singer a musician?
From: Will Fly
Date: 15 Mar 18 - 09:40 AM

"Personally I do not think that anyone who cannot read music can truly call themselves a musician."

Bit of a bugger for people like Django Reinhardt, eh?

Subject: RE: Is a singer a musician?
From: GUEST,Andiliqueur
Date: 15 Mar 18 - 08:29 AM

Thanks Observer. I agree with you. I have a natural talent and I have been very glad of it and it has been a joy to me my whole life. Increasingly I'm beginning to wonder if singing 'out of tune' is the new singing 'in tune' as there seems to be a lot of it about and no one seems to challenge it but then perhaps that's a subject for another thread?

Subject: RE: Is a singer a musician?
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 15 Mar 18 - 08:00 AM

According to the Oxford Dictionary a musician is "A person who plays a musical instrument, especially as a profession, or is musically talented."

According to the same dictionary a singer is "A person who sings, especially professionally."

To answer the question posed in the OP

"I am a singer with no musical training. I can sing in tune but play no instrument. Can I class myself as a 'musician'?

I would say no you cannot classify yourself as a "musician", by your own admission you say that you have "no musical training". There are of course varying degrees and I would think requirements. Personally I do not think that anyone who cannot read music can truly call themselves a musician.

By your description you are a singer that can sing in tune and hold a tune which means that you have been born with a wonderful and natural gift. Count your blessings there are many "professional performers" who cannot sing to save themselves.

Subject: RE: Is a singer a musician?
From: Stanron
Date: 15 Mar 18 - 07:08 AM

It all changes if it's used in conjunction with the word 'session'. A singer's session and a musician's session are quite different things. In a singer's session it's one at a time, you take your turn and then wait for every one else to have a go before you sing again, except for joining in on choruses of course.

A mixed session accommodates both singing and tunes.

In a musician, or 'tunes' session it's tunes only. Someone starts a set of tunes and if you know it you join in. If you know lots of tunes you can play all night. An occasional song in a tunes session is OK but too many attempts a singing can result in hostility. People go to tunes sessions to play tunes, not to listen to singers.

Subject: RE: Is a singer a musician?
From: Andy7
Date: 15 Mar 18 - 06:55 AM

From dictionary.com:

musician (noun)

1. a person who makes music a profession, especially as a performer of music.

2. any person, whether professional or not, skilled in music.

Subject: RE: Is a singer a musician?
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 15 Mar 18 - 06:48 AM

Most real traditional music is not performed by musicians, that is not to say that music as opposed to song is in any way inferior.

Perhaps becoming too common in traditional circles, but that is simply a matter of opinion.

Subject: RE: Is a singer a musician?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Mar 18 - 06:44 AM

Agreed with most of your posting G, but some reservations about this:
"All performers have to develop a rapport with their audience and that goes for singers as well as musicians."
I believe that if a singer>musician has a rapport with their song or their piece of music, the listener will develop a rapport with you.
An old singer once told me "if you like your songs enough it's not difficult to get others to feel the same about them"
A win-win situation all round - you enjoy your singing as much as your listeners enjoy hearing you.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Is a singer a musician?
From: GUEST,Andiliqueur
Date: 15 Mar 18 - 06:39 AM

I should say that I have sung with my husband who plays guitar for many years and I do work hard at my performance. I am therefore an experienced folk singer but I have always assumed that he was the musician not me. I just wondered what other people's views were.

Subject: RE: Is a singer a musician?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Mar 18 - 06:29 AM

It's always been my opinion that the human voice is the most accessible musical instrument, if used as such
Classical singing aside, listen to some of the most skilful examples of folk singing and you'll hear some of the most skilful extensions of the human voice as you will in any other musical form - Mongolian throat singing, Genoese Tralaleri, the complex percussive rhythms of the Lomax's Texas chain gangs - down to Elizabeth Cronin's beautiful use of implosives (notes sung on he intake of breath)... superb msuicianship
The finest examples of these are to be found on Bert Lloyd's 'Folk Song Virtuoso' - anybody who hasn't heard this but wishes to PM me
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Is a singer a musician?
From: G-Force
Date: 15 Mar 18 - 06:25 AM

I have been singing all my life, mostly folk, and have worked really hard at it. I definitely consider my voice an instrument and look after it really carefully. Just think of the work that goes into producing a good performance. Obviously get the tune and the words right, but there's appropriate phrasing and articulation, which will be vary greatly for different types of song and timing is vital. You must watch the audience carefully to see how well you're doing, which may mean a swift change of presentation if you sense you're not connecting with them. Also, if you're being accompanied there's real teamwork and co-operation involved. All performers have to develop a rapport with their audience and that goes for singers as well as musicians. And lastly, who dared to compare my voice to a triangle!

Subject: RE: Is a singer a musician?
From: GUEST,Sol
Date: 15 Mar 18 - 06:01 AM

From the definition I quoted above, it seems crazy a triangle player can be classed as a musician when an opera singer, or the like, can't.
Anybody who makes music is a musician however, I should point out that's personal definition definition.

Subject: RE: Is a singer a musician?
From: GUEST,Sol
Date: 15 Mar 18 - 05:54 AM

According to the dictionary I've just read, a musician is "any person who plays a musical instrument". Is the human voice an instrument? That's really the question. I suppose you can't 'play' your voice so, from that perspective, the answer is no.

Subject: RE: Is a singer a musician?
From: r.padgett
Date: 15 Mar 18 - 05:49 AM

Yes

a good idea to get an instrument though and work out the song tunes and usual keys you sing in (by ear)

Ray

Subject: Is a singer a musician?
From: GUEST,Andiliqueur
Date: 15 Mar 18 - 05:46 AM

I am a singer with no musical training. I can sing in tune but play no instrument. Can I class myself as a 'musician'?