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Origins: The Fiann Mount - Eamonn O'Gallagher?

Helen 29 Mar 18 - 05:05 PM
Helen 29 Mar 18 - 05:42 PM
Helen 30 Mar 18 - 04:01 PM
GUEST,Mick Pearce (MCP) 30 Mar 18 - 05:25 PM
Helen 30 Mar 18 - 10:54 PM
GUEST,Mick Pearce (MCP) 31 Mar 18 - 05:02 AM
Helen 31 Mar 18 - 05:09 AM
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Subject: Origins: The Fiann Mount - Eamonn O'Gallagher?
From: Helen
Date: 29 Mar 18 - 05:05 PM

Hi all,

I have a book Walton's Irish Airs for the Harp , Arrangements and Introduction by Eamonn O Gallagher, 1968.

There is a tune in it called The Fiann Mount, with a Gaelic title Cruacain na Féinne (sorry I might not be transcribing the alphabet properly).

I have tried to search for the tune on the 'net but no results, apart from the tune being listed in that specific book.

I searched for Eamonn O Gallagher / Éamonn Ó Gallchobhair and he was a composer so I suspect that he composed this tune, especially as his note on the tune is a bit ambiguous. "The Fiann, Ireland's ancient standing army, had their poet Oisin, who wrote many lays; these were sung until recent times to tunes such as this."

It is an unusual tune with a halting rhythm in the first phrase.

Does anyone have any more information, please?

I'll keep searching, and also I will add the ABC notation when I have created it, if I cannot find it somewhere else.

(BTW, on the same page in the book is another lovely tune called The Three Sea Captains, which I have found on YouTube etc.)

Thanks heaps,
Helen


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Subject: RE: Origins: The Fiann Mount - Eamonn O'Gallagher?
From: Helen
Date: 29 Mar 18 - 05:42 PM

More info:

I searched for Cruacain na Féinne on The Session and found this:

Avenging and Bright, lyrics by Thomas Moore

The music on that page is similar to the music on the lovely Lesley Nelson-Burns' site (she sometimes checks in at Mudcat - I've been visiting her site for about 20 years - beautiful tunes and arrangements, lots of info):

Avenging and Bright

"Thomas Moore wrote these words in 1811 to an old Irish air Crooghan A Venee."

That tune is related but not the same. There are some similarities but the rhythm in the first part is not as unusual as the one in the book.

Searching on Crooghan a Venee found this tune, which is very close to the one in the book, without the interesting start, which may simply be an introduction someone has added.

X:1
T:Crooghan a Venee
M:3/4
L:1/8
R:Air
B:O'Flannagan - The Hibernia Collection (Boston, 1860, p. 24)
Z:AK/Fiddler's Companion
K:D
F>F|B2 (Bc)(dB)|c2f3e|d2B2B2|c2A2A2|
B2 (Bc) (dB)|c2 f3e|d2B2{c}B2|B4||
c>c|d2 (de) (fd)|c2A2F2|G2 (GB) (AG)|
F2D2A2|d2 (de) (fd)|c2A2F2|(GF) (Ed) (cB)|B4||

I'll keep looking.

A large part of the problem, I suspect, comes back to anglicisation of the original Gaelic name of the tune.

Helen


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Subject: RE: Origins: The Fiann Mount - Eamonn O'Gallagher?
From: Helen
Date: 30 Mar 18 - 04:01 PM

Anyone? Hello, is there anyone out the-e-e-e-ere??? LOL

Have you ever heard this tune, or played it, or even heard of it. The only time I have encountered it is in the book I mentioned above.

Thanks,
Helen


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Subject: RE: Origins: The Fiann Mount - Eamonn O'Gallagher?
From: GUEST,Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 30 Mar 18 - 05:25 PM

Helen - you seem to be doing all right by yourself!

You might try searching on "Cruachain na Féinne" or Cruachán na Féinne.

There is some info on Avenging And Bright on this site joe-offer.com! There is another transcription there from Holden's Collection of the Most Esteemed Irish Melodies. Also a note that Beethoven set a song to it. (You can hear that on youtube: Oh! Who, My Dear Dermot?

This Irish pipers site shows a simple harmonized version of most of the tune from Holden Holden 1b

Mick



X:1
T:CROOKAUN A VENÉÉ
T:[? Cruachán na Féinne -- Mount of the Fenians; Avenging and bright]
S:Holden's Collection of the Most Esteem'd Old Irish Melodies, Bks. II, c1807
B:Fleischmann, Sources of Irish Traditional Music c. 1600-1855, vol. 2, 1998, p. 829 [no. 4561]
M:3/4
L:1/8
K:Dm
A2 | d2 defd | e2 a2 ag|f2 d2 d2|c2 A2 A2|
d2 defd|e2 a2 ag|e2 d2 d2| d4:||: e2|
f2 f3/2g/af|e2 c2 A2 |BABdcB|A2 F2 F2|
f2 fgaf|e2 c2 A2|B3/2A/G3/2F/E3/2D/|{D}d4:|]


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Subject: RE: Origins: The Fiann Mount / Cruachán na Féinn
From: Helen
Date: 30 Mar 18 - 10:54 PM

Thanks heaps, Mick,

There's a lot more information on those pages than I had found.

It also helps to have a better transcription of the original name than Crookaun a Venéé or Crooghan a Venee.

And who is this "Joe Offer" of whom you speak? He must be a clever bloke! :-)

Helen


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Subject: RE: Origins: The Fiann Mount - Eamonn O'Gallagher?
From: GUEST,Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 31 Mar 18 - 05:02 AM

Helen

I believe Joe Offer is some sort of internet spirit. He may pop up spontaneously to help you, or you can type his name three times and he should appear.

Joe Offer! Joe Offer! Joe Offer! Where is Masato thesse days?

Mick


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Subject: RE: Origins: The Fiann Mount - Eamonn O'Gallagher?
From: Helen
Date: 31 Mar 18 - 05:09 AM

Hi Mick,

Yes I think you are right. I wonder if he can travel across space to Oz as well, or is his spirit just tethered to Mudcat?

Masato was a very knowledgable and prolific contributor to Mudcat. I just searched and the last thread Masato posted to was in March 2011.

Helen


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