BS: On the cause of Famines

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: Iains
Date: 06 Apr 18 - 01:25 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3DcChXNyYQ

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Apr 18 - 01:07 PM

"HOW DOES MY STATEMENT mean anything like what YOU state?"
The old man was not an extreme left winger and his views were most certaingly not left winbg - what he said has been repeated throught world Jewish communities of all political shades and none at all
What you said was an disgusting attempt to smear a holocaust survivor because of what he said
THat is whet makes you what you are, just as what he said makes him the human being he was
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Apr 18 - 01:01 PM

Didn't finish
Jewish nurse ELLEN SEIGAL , the HOLOCAUST SURVIVORS who have called for a boycott of Israeli goods because of their massacre of Gazans - not forgetting the old holocause survivor you despicably described as "far left"
"So anyone who calls you out is a troll?"
Nope - anybody who conisytently lies as oyu have is a troll
"Too bad. "
Too bad - is right
Now - that "antisemitism" you accuse me of - any nearer to finding any
No?
Of course you haven't - you invented it
You said you have produced itt in the past - where is it?
Finished here, I think - have allowed you to expose your own dishonesty - job done
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: beardedbruce
Date: 06 Apr 18 - 12:55 PM

So anyone who calls you out is a troll?



You have lost. Just squirm away, and stop making up lies about other people.


"I have never lke the Jewish People with the actions of the Israeli Government - you have
When someone makes such a serious charge I expect a shred of evidence - none forthcoming"


"I have never lke the Jewish People with the actions of the Israeli Government - you have
You are doing exactly that now"


How, by stating that YOU have said
04 Apr 18 - 01:38 PM

"That certainly is a far-Left viewpoint. Thank you for presenting it. "

"So holocaust survivors no longer have a say in Israel if they don't embrace extremist right politics
Thank you for confirming that thais has nothing to do with either the Jewish peoplem or humanitarianism
What a hatefully inhuman remark and what a wonderful way to commemorate six million dead remark"

Your read of what someone calling a viewpoint far Left is indicative of a certain lack of... reason? HOW DOES MY STATEMENT mean anything like what YOU state?



" I expect a shred of evidence "

Too bad. When YOU provide it for others, you might be obliged. YOUR opinion does not count as fact. Nor do your sentiments.

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Apr 18 - 12:38 PM

Nothing then ?
Didn't think so for a minute
"So you will only accept being called out by someone who, like yourself, is an anti-Semite? "
Not at all - I will not accept being called one by a bunch of Trolls
You are the only people on this forum (and in my life) who have ever called me one
When someone makes such a serious charge I expect a shred of evidence - none forthcoming
"Two lies in one sentence- one of them libelous."
I have never lke the Jewish People with the actions of the Israeli Government - you have
You are doing exactly that now
My only criticisms regarding the Palestinians have been aimed at the Israeli REgime - it has never been a "Jewish" problem for me, in fact I have linked to many dozens of Jews throughout the world who share my sentiments - including the ex-directors of Mossad who were interviewer for the film THE GATEKEEPERS ,

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: beardedbruce
Date: 06 Apr 18 - 11:50 AM

my offer has been open for several years now - not one single taker from any of you

I took you up on it right in this thread.


""There have been many times that you have been called out on anti-Semitism"
By you and Bobad - now Robo"

So you will only accept being called out by someone who, like yourself, is an anti-Semite? And YOUR statement admits that YOU HAVE BEEN CALLED OUT PREVIOUSLY.


"I most certainly do not - it is you who I=identify the actions of an organisation (in this case, the Israeli Government) with the Jewish people "

Two lies in one sentence- one of them libelous.


"I have associated with Jewish people for most of my life"

And I have associated with Liberals. So you have proven what?



Keep it up,Mr Carroll. Every post proves my points.

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: beardedbruce
Date: 06 Apr 18 - 11:44 AM

BTW,

But coming to Jim's logical conclusions needs a more solid set of premises than he currently has to hand, unfortunately.

Finally, do keep it civil between us. You're getting a bit too sarky-out-loud. Calling my opinions crap or rubbish doesn't make them any more so than they may already be.

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Apr 18 - 11:43 AM

"There have been many times that you have been called out on anti-Semitism"
By you and Bobad - now Robo
None of you have come yup with one single example despite the facy=t that my offer has been open for several years now - not one single taker from any of you
" I take that as saying that YOU BELIEVE any Jew represents some nebulous organization"
I most certainly do not - it is you who I=identify the actions of an organisation (in this case, the Israeli Government) with the Jewish people
I have associated with Jewish people for most of my life - nearly married one once until I fell out with her holocaust survivor mother who called the Israeli Government of the time "a bunch of fascists"
It turns ut she was right and I was wrong - we live and learn
"but it would be up to YOU to prove that they were."
No it's not Yours has always been a blanket accusation of antisemitism - you have never once provided an example of my being an antisemite - you are not doing so now
As I said - none of us are getting any younger
Where are your examples - you said there were plenty of them?
Ho hum - this really is becoming very boring
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: beardedbruce
Date: 06 Apr 18 - 11:42 AM

Mr Shaw,

I was just answering Mr Carroll's lies about me- I would certainly give even you the chance to reply to libelous statements that are not supported by any facts.

Or is asking for the same rights for myself that you would insist on for yourself now prohibited?

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Apr 18 - 11:35 AM

Fer chrissake, Jim, ignore him. He's out for trouble, not for a conversation. We've had the mods in already. Do what we're doing with Keith - just talk past him.

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: beardedbruce
Date: 06 Apr 18 - 11:30 AM

Jim,
"I raise it twice before the Last Israeli thread was closed I have raised it several times in the past - no response on any occasion"

There have been many times that you have been called out on anti-Semitism. That YOU refuse to answer is YOUR problem, not mine.


I stated that YOUR comment that BECAUSE MY STATEMENT was interpreted by you (in a false way,) that the ISRAELI GOVERNMENT had a specific policy.

As an American Jew, with NO connection to Israel, I take that as saying that YOU BELIEVE any Jew represents some nebulous organization. THAT MAKES YOU AN ANTI-SEMITE.

You are the one who says this.

My statements are not lies- but it would be up to YOU to prove that they were. Why should I disprove YOUR lies when you do not disprove my statements, but insist I must prove them ( while you insist on disproof of your statements. I give you the SAME standards YOU have set upon others. The burden YOU place on others applies to you as well.


"You have put up a pack of lies here (prove they are not) but I very much doubt if you will shut up." So very true of one Jim Carroll.
We could only wish that you would hold your breath.

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Apr 18 - 11:25 AM

Don't take too log - none of us are getting any younger
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Apr 18 - 11:11 AM

"I have seen no such anti-Semitism on the part of Keith- But I have on the part of one Jim Carroll, and noted it many times."
I raise it twice before the Last Israeli thread was closed I have raised it several times in the past - no response on any occasion
If you are not blatantly lying you will now produce antisemitism from me
You are now openly and rather desperately and openly lying - about my position and about your own
"YOU have been given the proof many times"
See what I mean - where have you - what are your examples?
Can't be that hard to find if there are that many
You have put up a pack of lies here (prove they are not) but I very much doubt if you will shut up.
If my facts are not facts - disprove them - that's what we are supposed to be here for
Won't hold my breath for anything here
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: Iains
Date: 06 Apr 18 - 10:47 AM

"or shut up"   I dare you!! It will be an insurmountable challenge.

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: beardedbruce
Date: 06 Apr 18 - 10:38 AM

"Where is your condemnation of Keith's open antisemitism if your concern is for the Jewish People you've been asked for it often enough
"
I have seen no such anti-Semitism on the part of Keith- But I have on the part of one Jim Carroll, and noted it many times.



"You are the one who links the Jewish People to ethnic cleansing and teh shooting down of protesters - not me
"
No, YOU are the one who has stated that- I have not done so- But IMO YOU have done so many times.


"BTW, how about that Far-Left support of the Nazis by Ireland?
How about it - have you ever seen me support the IRA?"

YOU have stated that I support Nazis- YET I CHALLENGE YOU to find anywhere where I have done so?
Not the IRA, but the far left on many occasions. The post was that the Far Left supported Nazis- , you have demonstrated a Left bias in most if not all of your remarks- So by YOUR standards, you are tarred by the same brush of the worst of those Leftists, regardless of any stated support- YOU have established this as the standard YOU apply, so it is only fair to apply it to you as well.




"Feel free to prove me wrong, of course"

I believe that I have done so, many times and here as well.



"The "far left" in my opinion never supported fascism of any kind - I wouldn't know"

Try learning to read OTHER peoples posts instead of telling everyone else what YOU imagine they think or support ( If I have done so here about YOU, I am just applying the standards YOU use on others to you, a fair debating tactic.)
"Sinn Fein / IRA, being hard leftists, like to call their opponents "fascists". And indeed there is some truth in it, as regards the hard-core loyalists at least. But SF-IRA are not the people to criticise.

The IRA supported the Nazis in WW2 (the real ones, not just rhetorical ones). They ran safe houses for Nazi spies, aided Nazi intelligence, and even helped Nazi bombers. They planned to bring about a Nazi German invasion of Ireland, and would no doubt have been installed as a quisling government had Germany occupied Ireland. "



"I am not a supporter of the "far left" (feel free to show where I am)"

That is NOT what your posts indicate. You defend the Left at all times, and regard Stalin as a friend to all starving Ukrainians!


"Your definition of the term appears to be anybody to the left of Thatcher, Tebbit or Ian Paisley"

In the US, Bernnie is Far Laft- I am actualy a Centrist ( Politically conservative, socially liberal, close to Libertarian)
YOUR definition of anyone to the right of Hillary Clinton is that they are Nazis.



"I have a lifelong interest in politics but I have no connection with any organisation"

That is a wonderful thing- a pity you cannot allow others to have the same privileges you are claiming. MY opinions are my own. Yet you make STATEMENTS about me, made up in your tiny little mind, as if they were facts.



"My concern is for the treatment of human beings (mainly those with no connection in politics)"

Then I think you do a piss-poor job in trying to find consensus by your declaring that any who disagree withYOU are NOT concerned as well.




"If I ever joined anything it would probably ne a humanitarian group"

And would they teach you that aggressive attacks on others is not the best way to get people to even listen to you?



"THis is little more than mudslinging - do you actually have any evidence that I hold the view you are suggesting I do"

Yes. your posts are mainly that- on occasion, you bring up information I was unaware of ( for which I thANK YOU)- but IT IS BURIED IS SO MUCH BILE AND SHIT IT IS HARD TO FIND.



"It is about as accurate and unsubstantiated as my "antisemitism" - which you have yet to produce a scrap of evidence for"

BY THE STANDARDS YOU HAVE APPLIED TO OTHERS I HAVE PROVEN IT MANY TIMES OVER.



"We are now doing Iain's job for him by turning this thread, which has nothing to do with any of this garbage, into a personal slanging match
"
YOU are the one who never discusses facts, but makes statements about others that are false, and then argue from them.



"Produce evedence of your accusations or withdraw them - but do it somewhere else and allow this thread take its own course"

YOU have been given the proof many times, but refuse to even look at it- you just attack anyone who presents what YOU do not want to look at, instead of debating the facts.



"Put up or shut up"

I have put up- now will you SHUT UP, or at least stop the personnel attacks and presumptions that YOU are God Almighty, and know what everyone else is and/or should be thinking? Your understanding of other's beliefs, and reasons for their views is sadly lacking.


Bruce

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Apr 18 - 09:55 AM

Where is your condemnation of Keith's open antisemitism if your concern is for the Jewish People you've been asked for it often enough
You are the one who links the Jewish People to ethnic cleansing and teh shooting down of protesters - not me
"BTW, how about that Far-Left support of the Nazis by Ireland? "
How about it - have you ever seen me support the IRA?
Feel free to prove me wrong, of course
The "far left" in my opinion never supported fascism of any kind - I wouldn't know
I am not a supporter of the "far left" (feel free to show where I am)
Your definition of the term appears to be anybody to the left of Thatcher, Tebbit or Ian Paisley
I have a lifelong interest in politics but I have no connection with any organisation
My concern is for the treatment of human beings (mainly those with no connection in politics)
If I ever joined anything it would probably ne a humanitarian group
THis is little more than mudslinging - do you actually have any evidence that I hold the view you are suggesting I do
It is about as accurate and unsubstantiated as my "antisemitism" - which you have yet to produce a scrap of evidence for
We are now doing Iain's job for him by turning this thread, which has nothing to do with any of this garbage, into a personal slanging match
Produce evedence of your accusations or withdraw them - but do it somewhere else and allow this thread take its own course
Put up or shut up
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: beardedbruce
Date: 06 Apr 18 - 09:43 AM

And the fact that someone is NOT a far-Left liberal does not make them Nazis, unless you are Jim Carroll.

HE is the one who brings up information from that period and attaches it to current comments. You have a problem with that, TALK TO HIM.

Feel free not to let reasonable discussion get in the way.

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Apr 18 - 09:32 AM

The IRA of WWII is not the IRA of post-1969. Feel free to not let facts get in the way.

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 06 Apr 18 - 09:22 AM

""I don’t believe serious debating forums need people like you and need to rid themselves of your like if they are going to continue to exist"
Jim Carroll"

This section of Mudcat is entitled BS

OED Definition of bullshit in English:

"bullshit- noun - mass noun - vulgar slang

Stupid or untrue talk or writing; nonsense."

Ill repeat without apology "When will they ever learn , when will they ever learn.
Think about it?

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: beardedbruce
Date: 06 Apr 18 - 08:40 AM

"even though you hold the Jewish people personally responsible for the ongoing crimes o Israel "

An example of your lies. If you state YOUR OPINION as a statement of fact, YOU ARE LYING- Your statement is as false as your other claims.

BTW, how about that Far-Left support of the Nazis by Ireland? Since YOU state that if ANYONE is not in agreement with you, they must be the extreme end of the political spectrum.

So YOU are as bad as those Leftists. I have just proven BY YOUR LOGIC that YOU support Nazis and the killing of Jews.



"the IRA supported the Nazis, and the Nazis supported the IRA. The IRA helped the Luftwaffe bomb Belfast and Derry.

Hitler would of course have done to Ireland what he did to every other country. In the Wannsee Conference notes of Jan 1942, Ireland's 4,000 Jews were listed for extermination. No doubt Irish quislings would have helped in this, as quislings helped in every other country.

Luckily, the IRA failed in their plans, and the Jews of Ireland were not exterminated. The IRA has still not apologised for this. "


http://markhumphrys.com/sfira.nazis.html

http://markhumphrys.com/IRA/4.JPG

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1538969/Ireland-welcomed-Hitlers-henchmen.html

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Apr 18 - 08:24 AM

"And that goes for you as well."
My invitation to Iains goes fro you as well Bruce
I never bully though occasionally I return personal abuse in kind - I ahev never called you a Jew hater even though you hold the Jewish people personally responsible for the ongoing crimes o Israel
Feel free to display my bullying and lying for all the world to see
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: beardedbruce
Date: 06 Apr 18 - 08:14 AM

"If you continue to presonaly abuse and attept to censor those who disagree with you I will formally put yourt behaviour into teh hands of teh administrators of this site
Stop it now - for all our sakes"


And that goes for you as well.


If you keep posting lies about what others have said, you run the risk of others telling the truth about you.
DEAL WITH IT.

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Apr 18 - 08:05 AM

When behaviour like yours is as regular and as abusive as your is transcends "occasional pisstake" and becomes personal and permanent insulting
You appear to have no control on your behaviour "made up shit" I make nothing up and it's's not ssit - it's fully documented and traceable information - the fact that you are unable to deal with it as that is a reflection on you
This is more confirmation that you attempting to censor that which you do agree with
If you have any evidence of my "bullying" produce it, otherwis I suggest you withdraw it and apologise
The yael or so long eaxples of your personally abusive postings is evidence enough of who the bully is here.
You seem to believe that expressing independent contrary opinions is a form of bullying - maybe in your world - not mine
If you continue to presonaly abuse and attept to censor those who disagree with you I will formally put yourt behaviour into teh hands of teh administrators of this site
Stop it now - for all our sakes
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: Iains
Date: 06 Apr 18 - 06:46 AM

Most posting here prefer a semi serious debate on various topics interspersed by the occasional pisstake.
You on the other hand demand that all adhere to your often weird interpretation of events that you back up by "made up shit" and blustering bullying attacks on all who hold a counter view. How many people does it take to tell you this, before you recognise your own failings?
Were I to list all your silly postings, the internet would overload and grind to a halt. Now go away and stop behaving like millenial!


class and diet.
https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/87/5/1107/4650128

Modern agriculture and declining crop quality


https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/soil-depletion-and-nutrition-loss/

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Apr 18 - 06:23 AM

You obviously made an effort to clean upi your act for a time – now you have reverted to your old self of indlting anybody who disagrees with you in undermine arguments you are incapable of challenge
THIS LATEST ONE IS AN OPEN ADMISSION THAT YOU ARE ATTEMPERING TO CENSOR THESE DISCUSSIONS - “STOP POSTING RUBBISH” A PRETTY GOOD REASON TO REQUEST YOUR EXPULSION FROM THIS THREAD I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT
Below is a list of your latest offerings – little evidence of any attempt to debate seriously the subjects you involve yourself in
I haven’t decided whether to put up some of your other abusive epics on an active thread or open a permathread where trolling such as your can be dealt with without interfering with other discussions
Your behaviour is extremely mindless and the fact that you operate from the safety of anonymity and distance makes it cowardly
I don’t believe serious debating forums need people like you and need to rid themselves of your like if they are going to continue to exist
Jim Carroll

From: Iains - PM
Date: 03 Apr 18 - 09:44 AM
For Shaw from his favourite newspaper:
Sweeping statements from shaw, no evidence to back it up. Now who else does that ad nauseum?
I recommend you get a new hymn book, some of your verses are misleading if not totally erroneous.

From: Iains - PM
Date: 03 Apr 18 - 03:12 PM
Now I think you will agree that had you read and understood what was written by me you would not have made a total ass of yourself now would you?
From: Iains - PM
Date: 03 Apr 18 - 03:23 PM
Didn't do you much good, did it?
A typical attempted put down by shaw and in particularly bad taste!
From: Iains - PM
Date: 04 Apr 18 - 06:12 AM
Chewing on lemons again. Pure gibberish.
From: Iains - PM
Date: 05 Apr 18 - 04:19 AM
Of course should anyone demand some proof to justify the bizarre statement above, it will be a forlorn hope.
The man is away with the faeries, as per usual. Trying to make a point by gross exaggeration and outright untruths. The only thing he insists on deleting from his nonsense is "once upon a time." and then he has the audacity to wonder why some treat him as a fool.
From: Iains - PM
Date: 05 Apr 18 - 11:34 AM
The world according to little jimmie!
Through the eyes of a child
From: Iains - PM
Date: 05 Apr 18 - 12:27 PM
Present facts and they can be disputed or accepted. Present fabrications, bluster and totally outlandish statements and expect to be ridiculed. Quite easy really.!
From: Iains - PM
Date: 05 Apr 18 - 01:31 PM
Your link has nowt to do with the price of tea in China Laddie.
From: Iains - PM
Date: 05 Apr 18 - 03:56 PM
Go and infest another   thread jimmie. This one was progressing quite well until you started your usual frothing. How many times do different people have to spell things out to you, before you start paying attention. Are you stupid?
From: Iains - PM
Date: 06 Apr 18 - 05:17 AM
just knew it was too good to be true! Jimmies found his paintbox.
From: Iains - PM
Date: 06 Apr 18 - 05:57 AM
Stop posting rubbish and I will no longer treat you as the resident clown. It is very easy!

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: Iains
Date: 06 Apr 18 - 05:57 AM

Stop posting rubbish and I will no longer treat you as the resident clown. It is very easy!

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Apr 18 - 05:25 AM

"just knew it was too good to be true! Jimmies found his paintbox
Will you stop this
If you can't behave like an adult then leave the adults to it
If you insist of trolling I'll ask that you be removed
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: Iains
Date: 06 Apr 18 - 05:17 AM

" and I'm off."

just knew it was too good to be true! Jimmies found his paintbox.

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Apr 18 - 04:24 AM

"yet you are making room all around him to absolve him "
No I am not
I've read up fairly closely on the subject and it is as I suggest - there is no evidence that what happened was a deliberate act - not was it caused by a "system" - Stalin was a horrific distortion of an attempt to change the world for the better
THe Russian Revolution arose out of one of the most inhuman acts on the planet - World War One - 41 million casualties (18 million dead and 23 million wounded)
This was a war for dominance and power between Empires - a dividing up of the world to decide who among the most powerful nations should profit from whom
In Britain's case it was a family squabble between related Royal families I believe that that is how history will write it up eventually, as it has so many other such conflicts in the past.
At the time the Russian soldiers decided they had had enough of this butchery that had lost nearly 2 million military. nearly 5 million wounded and 2 and a half million missing - over 9 million in all - all in the interests of a Tzar who had kept his subjects ruthlessly in feudal conditions and had shot them down on the streets when they complained
The soldiers returned home to find two political factions - one who totally opposed the war - the other who wanted them to go back to the front and "we'll sort things out when it's all over"
The winners of that argument, The Bolsheviks, were faced with governing a starving Empire ranging from primitive feudalism in the East to undeveloped capitalism in the West - dificult enough for any system
Then along came the Civil War with and invasion of fourteen western countries who wanted to return things to how they were (some of whom had been sworn enemies during "The Great Imperial war a few years earlier).
That was the situation the new leaders had to face - to turn a whole empire in a totally new direction.
Russia should never have been the first country to have attempted to build the much-needed new society - the war decided that one
Immediately after the war the German people took up arms against the system and took over large swathes of their country - they were eventually defeated, their leaders murdered, German Capitalism financed the Nazis and "we started all over again" - this time with countess millions of deliberate exterminations - Jews, Socialists, Trades Unionists, and those considered to unfit to live in a pure German capitalist society.
Pointing the finger at a momentous abberation like Stalin and ignoring everything else is somewhat myopic, doncha think?
Go look at the bigger picture
I don't here many complaints about the over 1 million war casualties much later in the war of intervention in Vietnam (many caused buy dropping burning petrol on the heads of peasants, or slaughtering them with carcinogenics chemicals)
Acts of inhumanity are acts of inhumanity - whoever carries them out
" we already know you have a problem with joos"
And there you go with your unfounded and unjust accusation of antismitsim
Anybody who associated the slaughter and land seizure that is taking place at present with the Jewish people is an extreme antisemite - and it certainly ain't me   
There is a large donation to charity on offer to anyone who can show a single case of my ever denigrating The Jewish people - no takers so far
Perhaps you would like to make a similar offer - I'd love a crack at that one
Your accusations are not only dishonest but they are despicably cowardly as you don't even attempt to substantiate them
Any mindless cyber-stalking troll can make such accusations - as you, Bobad and Beard Bruce have proved over and over again
Isnt the term ""Joos" antisemitic?
I don't knw, I've never used it - I leave that to the antisemites
For Christ's sake, do you have to bring your antisemitism to yet another thread?
It has no place here - can some passing forum fairy remove this before this troll closes down another thread please (are you there Joe?)
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: robomatic
Date: 05 Apr 18 - 08:26 PM

On 04Apr18 (golly, seems like only yesterday!) you writ:

I know that there is not a shred of evidence to show that the Ukrainian Famine was "man-made" - not one - unless, of course, you have unearthed some
What was happening the the Soviet Union at the time had nothing to do with Communism (again, unless you can cite in the theoretical works that the incompetence and brutality was part of their doctrine- I've never found it and I've read enough about it)

I'm impressed with the depth of your unsupported 'knowledge' of how up to 5 million people died in the breadbasket of the erstwhile Soviet Union. You claim to be no supporter of Stalin yet you are making room all around him to absolve him and his sick government of one of the great crimes of the 20th Century.
You could go here for three different books on the same theme
Your loggorhea of words above is more of a scattergun reply about everything on your, um, pate, but free of a direct response to my comment of a Communist caused episode of mass starvation.

Of course, there was a much larger famine, aided if not caused by The Great Leap Forward which claimed over 30 million souls, (if indeed, asians count as souls to you, we already know you have a problem with joos).

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Apr 18 - 07:35 PM

*Groan*

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Apr 18 - 07:05 PM

"This one was progressing quite well until you started your usual frothing."
Not a good loser as well as an abusive idiot
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: Iains
Date: 05 Apr 18 - 03:56 PM

Go and infest another   thread jimmie. This one was progressing quite well until you started your usual frothing. How many times do different people have to spell things out to you, before you start paying attention. Are you stupid?

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Apr 18 - 01:47 PM

"Your link has nowt to do with the price of tea in China Laddie. "
Game, set and match, I think
Did you really expect anything else, behaving how you do?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: Iains
Date: 05 Apr 18 - 01:31 PM

Your link has nowt to do with the price of tea in China Laddie.


Anyway back to the thread that is far more interesting. The link below is a 2012 UK food security policy paper. It makes for an interesting read. http://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/SN04985#fullreport There is a pdf of the full report accessed at the end of the paper.
and

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/future-of-food-and-farming

If a severe shock occurred to the food system the UK holds stocks for just under 2 months. Most households keep food stocks for a couple of days. After that Anarchy
and (fairly old)
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/jan/11/nine-meals-anarchy-sustainable-system

My feeling is that the average punter needs to snap out of complacency.

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Apr 18 - 12:49 PM

"Present facts and they can be disputed or accepted"
Why not try doing this yourself without the abuse - one by one, if you prefer
Any eejit can dismiss out of hand as you are constantly proving
You have the facts as I believe them - disprove them with yours
It really doesn't get more difficult than that
The fact that you don't is a clear indication that you can't
YOUR STARTER FOR TEN
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: Iains
Date: 05 Apr 18 - 12:27 PM

Present facts and they can be disputed or accepted. Present fabrications, bluster and totally outlandish statements and expect to be ridiculed. Quite easy really.!

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Apr 18 - 11:46 AM

"The world according to little jimmie!"
Stop rproving you have no answer to the poits I made - it's obvious you don't
Got the message loud and clear
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: Iains
Date: 05 Apr 18 - 11:34 AM

The world according to little jimmie!


Through the eyes of a child

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Apr 18 - 07:07 AM

"I lived in Tipton for a year. "

Tipton boys they did us join, oh boys oh,
Tipton boys they did us join, oh boys oh,
Tipton boys they did us join and we formed a strong combine
Oh boys, oh, boys, oh the brave Dudley Boys
Jim Caarroll

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Apr 18 - 07:04 AM

"Of course should anyone demand some proof to justify the bizarre statement above, i"
Feel free to contradict anything I wrote Iains - piece by piece if you can't
handle it any other way
Are you really so stupid as not to realise that your infantile insulting only serves as an indication that you have no intelligent answer to what has been suggested?
You really aren't the brightest Donald Duck illustration on the baby's bib, are you?
Grow up and expand your reading experience beyond hastily snatched Guido Fawkes blogs - proper literature can be extremely enjoyable once you've dipped your toe in it for the first time
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Apr 18 - 04:41 AM

Aye, Mr Red, you 'ad it TUFF...

I lived in Tipton for a year. Commiserations on your sojourn in Walsall. As I know your grief. I used buses a lot of there. Can't where I live now as there aren't any. My bus pass is next to useless. Maybe those people with the phones and fags were working at the job centre. It must be very stressful.

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: Iains
Date: 05 Apr 18 - 04:19 AM

"I suggest you read higher up this thread to see how the parasitic poor looking for a "free lunch" are regarded by some of the most fervent supporters of this system of ours
Jim Carroll "

Of course should anyone demand some proof to justify the bizarre statement above, it will be a forlorn hope.
The man is away with the faeries, as per usual. Trying to make a point by gross exaggeration and outright untruths. The only thing he insists on deleting from his nonsense is "once upon a time." and then he has the audacity to wonder why some treat him as a fool.

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: Mr Red
Date: 05 Apr 18 - 04:15 AM

Anyone here use buses regularly?

There are those that are on their way to the Jobcentre (I pass the place) who have smart phones and gab on them the whole journey. A lot of them smoked. When I was in that situation I was on pay-as-you-go and spent 5GBP per 3 months on it.
One makes ones choices.
I preferred to "cut my clothe according to my measure".

There are those that understand what society does for them, but there are also the greedy.
Some of those greedy are castigated for being bloated capitalists.
They are all greedy. All greedies feel they have the right to do what they want. And are only curtailed by rules (rules that are applied that is). Not all greedies are rich. Not all rich are greedy. Ditto poor.

Looking at a successful business person and branding him (or her) as greedy therefore unworthy is as heinous a travesty of objectivity as looking at "the poor" and tarring all with the same brush strokes.

But being honest with an appraisal means other people jump to conclusions that by stating the bleeding obvious you are branding all within a similar single criterion as unworthy.

Being judgemental is easy, being objective requires removing a few pet theories and admitting that you are observing from outside the cohort, and at a distance often.

I live in Stroud by accident. I used to (thank goodness) live in Walsall. That good fortunes is not lost on me.

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Apr 18 - 07:58 PM

"Your fact-free response is utterly ridiculous to anyone who can view the defunct phenomenon of Soviet Communism in a fair light."
I'm no lover of Stalin , though I probably hate him for very different reasons that you do, but I know that there is not a shred of evidence to show that the Ukrainian Famine was "man-made" - not one - unless, of course, you have unearthed some
What was happening the the Soviet Union at the time had nothing to do with Communism (again, unless you can cite in the theoretical works that the incompetence and brutality was part of their doctrine- I've never found it and I've read enough about it)
No system can hold up clean hands - Industrial Capitalism sent six million Jews to their deaths, just as Imperialism and the struggle for political dominance had wiped out a generation of young men two decades before.
New Germany (under the National Socialist Party) was regarded as "the bulwark against Bolshevism" according to war hero, Winston Churchill
Despite what was happening to the Jews in Germany "Herr Hitler" gained power totally appeased until Britain had no alternative but to go to war
I'm sure I don't have to mention our Monarch teaching the Royal sprogs how to do the fascist salute!
The re-formed Luftwaffe perfected their bombing techniques on the market-goers of Guernica and on the citizens of Madrid while Britain mounted a blockade to prevent weapons from reaching the democratically elected Government
When you start counting up the dead of Korea and Vietnam - and now the oil wars, I wouldn't like to take bets on which philosophy (Communism was never a system, but an aim) took more lives (and is till doing so).
Is "free Russia" better or worse than the Soviet Union?
I can't recall genocide taking place in Yugoslavia in of what happened almost immediately after it "threw off its shackles of Communism"
Now Romania is "part of the free world" Britain is desperately trying to keep out Romanian economic migrants - Brexit was pushed through on the basis of excluding such people
When you talk about antisemitism, you need to remember that firms like Volkswagen were founded on Jewish slave labour
I needn't go itno the fact that our British way of life is based on being able to fill our shops with goods produced under near-slavery conditions
Without infringing on other threads, ethnic cleansing is now back with a bang, and it ain't communist states involved in that nasty past-time
There's a great deal of "our oppression is better than your oppression" smugness in these discussions - and a great deal of voluntary amnesia and very little human conscience -
I suggest you read higher up this thread to see how the parasitic poor looking for a "free lunch" are regarded by some of the most fervent supporters of this system of ours
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Apr 18 - 07:08 PM

By the way, almost every shirt I own and all my undies are Asda George. Why wouldn't I mention that?

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Apr 18 - 07:00 PM

I can discuss all that with you any time, Iains, but I'm afraid I can't accept judging from appearances. You may think the people you see outside Asda are from that social housing. Well I frequent an Asda surrounded by social housing, I'm a scruff and I often come out of that Asda with my wagon full of cheap plonk on offer and other unhealthy-looking stuff. I then load it into my beaten-up, ancient Ford Focus that's just about been round the clock. But I also support my local butcher, fishmonger, newsagent and greengrocer, I grow my own veg as much as I can and (apart from my state pension) I'm not on any benefits. And that Asda is 25 miles from my house. Apart from the fact that I don't hang around outside with a fag in my gob, I'm indistinguishable from the people Senoufou describes. Which is why judging from appearances, which you and keberoxu appear to be defending, isn't that safe.

And I see no reason why people on low incomes shouldn't have flat-screen tellies, X-Boxes for the kids, smartphones, tattoos and all the rest of the paraphernalia that capitalism shoves in our faces. Some of the rather arrogant better-off who criticise the poor for such things think nothing of parading around wearing hundreds of pounds' worth of jewellery every day or spending half an hour every morning plastering their faces with expensive makeup and the rest of their bodies with expensive wrinkle-reducer that's as much use as snake oil. And somebody must be buying those twelve-quid bottles of wine I see in Bude Sainsbury's. It ain't me, that's for sure, and I'll guarantee it ain't those claimants either. So easy to condemn from a place of near-luxury. Just what the Tories want us to do! Divide and rule!

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: robomatic
Date: 04 Apr 18 - 03:40 PM

Jim writ on 3 April regarding the Soviet State sponsored starvation of Ukraine:

The Ukrainian famine came about by Collectivisation, which was a bungled attempt to feed a starving Soviet Union
Stalin's ruthlessness was matched by that of the land-owning peasants (the Kulaks) who slaughtered their livestock and burned their crops rather than take pert in the scene (carefully missed out by many historians)
No side came out of this affair with anything to be proud of.

Ah, but one side was Soviet Russia, the side in absolute power (Stalin, remember?). Your fact-free response is utterly ridiculous to anyone who can view the defunct phenomenon of Soviet Communism in a fair light.

Your words are blasphemous not to any religion, but to the human conscience.

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: Iains
Date: 04 Apr 18 - 01:24 PM

Steve I think we are probably all more in agreement that not. The trouble with one paragraph responses is that they make points, but in isolation.
I think we can agree that more could be done to educate people about nutrition and this is across all socio-economic groups.
There is a subset of people that are functionally illiterate.
We closed asylums to advocate care in the community,yet some are reduced to having a cardboard box in a doorway as their home. We all have heard of lottery winners that have squandered everything after a couple of years. There are low skilled jobs but no unskilled jobs. To be employable you have to be able to follow simple instructions and obey legitimate orders. For a small minority that is a step too far. So there will always be people outside the continuous care system but unable to do an adequate job of looking after themselves. A basic analysis of the homeless figures give a truly frightening picture. " More than half of young homeless people were excluded from school growing up, 40 per cent experienced abuse at home, 33 per cent self-harm and 30 per cent spent part of their childhood in care. Theoretically they should be targeted as a priority group. In practise, NOT SO. A quick search will find many articles to back this up. Until more is done for disadvantaged children this vicious circle will not be broken and the cycle will continue.

Some prepackaged meals are cheaper than trying to accomplish the same with fresh ingredients so it is hardly surprising many choose the microwave option. It is both fast and effortless.
   Besides the above facts the modern world has virtually eradicated hard graft, yet many eat vast amounts of calories without giving a thought to burning them off, hence rising levels of obesity.

I see no point in fingering the bottom of the heap. Far more would be achieved by fully understanding the various factors that spawned their misfortune. I am sure any reasonable teacher can see those children that society is failing, but short of outright abuse, what does society do about it? I have only outlined a couple of snapshots, obviously it could be vastly expanded.

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: beardedbruce
Date: 04 Apr 18 - 01:20 PM

"Dependence on the State is not ideal in my view. "

The fundamental difference in the US between the Left and Right presently is whether the government ( from the top down) should direct people's lives, pushing them to do what is "good for them"(Left), or whether the minimum amount of government ( from the bottom up) should allow people to go in the direction they wish with a minimum of public interference, and take the responsibility for their actions and decisions.( Right)

The former has the Government taking resources from all to enforce what is decided is good for some, while the latter has the responsibility for for the social safety net being in private ( church and social) rather than government hands.

A BALANCE of both is needed- the LEAST government at the lowest level should provide the minimum to ease poverty and provide for opportunity to improve one's state. IMO, of course




ASIDE- try this on crumpets with cream cheese:

http://www.jamaica-no-problem.com/pepper-jelly.html#sthash.1AcANNZP.dpbs