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BS: If Russia didn't do it..?

Donuel 23 Apr 18 - 06:50 PM
Raggytash 23 Apr 18 - 03:42 PM
Iains 23 Apr 18 - 02:55 PM
punkfolkrocker 23 Apr 18 - 02:07 PM
Keith A of Hertford 23 Apr 18 - 02:05 PM
punkfolkrocker 23 Apr 18 - 12:36 PM
Keith A of Hertford 23 Apr 18 - 12:17 PM
punkfolkrocker 23 Apr 18 - 10:52 AM
Iains 23 Apr 18 - 10:46 AM
punkfolkrocker 23 Apr 18 - 08:30 AM
Dave the Gnome 23 Apr 18 - 08:20 AM
Keith A of Hertford 23 Apr 18 - 07:31 AM
Iains 23 Apr 18 - 07:24 AM
Jim Carroll 23 Apr 18 - 05:42 AM
Iains 23 Apr 18 - 05:35 AM
Keith A of Hertford 23 Apr 18 - 04:34 AM
Jim Carroll 22 Apr 18 - 06:57 PM
Iains 22 Apr 18 - 06:28 PM
Jim Carroll 22 Apr 18 - 10:44 AM
Iains 22 Apr 18 - 10:03 AM
Jim Carroll 22 Apr 18 - 08:27 AM
Iains 22 Apr 18 - 08:15 AM
Jim Carroll 22 Apr 18 - 07:59 AM
Keith A of Hertford 22 Apr 18 - 07:28 AM
Iains 22 Apr 18 - 07:24 AM
Jim Carroll 22 Apr 18 - 05:30 AM
Jim Carroll 22 Apr 18 - 04:26 AM
Iains 22 Apr 18 - 04:15 AM
Jim Carroll 22 Apr 18 - 03:24 AM
punkfolkrocker 21 Apr 18 - 10:58 PM
Kenny B 21 Apr 18 - 06:44 PM
Iains 21 Apr 18 - 05:24 PM
Jim Carroll 21 Apr 18 - 12:50 PM
Iains 21 Apr 18 - 12:47 PM
punkfolkrocker 21 Apr 18 - 12:40 PM
Jim Carroll 21 Apr 18 - 12:22 PM
Jim Carroll 21 Apr 18 - 12:17 PM
punkfolkrocker 21 Apr 18 - 12:06 PM
Iains 21 Apr 18 - 12:00 PM
Dave the Gnome 21 Apr 18 - 11:25 AM
punkfolkrocker 21 Apr 18 - 10:49 AM
Raggytash 21 Apr 18 - 10:48 AM
Jim Carroll 21 Apr 18 - 10:44 AM
bobad 21 Apr 18 - 10:33 AM
Iains 21 Apr 18 - 10:19 AM
Dave the Gnome 21 Apr 18 - 09:15 AM
Jim Carroll 21 Apr 18 - 06:53 AM
Jim Carroll 21 Apr 18 - 06:45 AM
Jim Carroll 21 Apr 18 - 06:44 AM
Iains 21 Apr 18 - 06:43 AM

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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Apr 18 - 06:50 PM

Iains Rules of Order must be obeyed or you will receive demerits and insults. Very Trumpian.
No one here will advise you to be nice person except yourself.

You remind me of the internet of 2001.
Just when you sound sane you go 'A Link Too Far'
Many of the Trolls of that era contracted virulent soul eating cases of Conspiria. Those who survived might work for bots by now.


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Raggytash
Date: 23 Apr 18 - 03:42 PM

Hoops Iains, and ever more hoops.


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Iains
Date: 23 Apr 18 - 02:55 PM

Keith The standard of your literary efforts at rebuttal are far exceeded by Janet and John Book 1. Merely throwing the odd statement back with a question mark is hardly a counter argument. If you dispute what is said at least try to give a supporting argument, otherwise there is little point in acknowledging your presence.
yours is the consummate response of querying all just by the use of ?
To be taken seriously you need to put a little more effort into your warblings here!


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Apr 18 - 02:07 PM

..if you say so...


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Apr 18 - 02:05 PM

So what?
not taking such clump headed folks seriously, dismissing, and ignoring them

Your view of the Shadow Foreign Secretary.


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Apr 18 - 12:36 PM

So what..


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Apr 18 - 12:17 PM

PFR,
.."Please may we bomb your homes to maim & kill your families, thank you very much...???"

Who is bombing whose homes in Syria?

Iains,
Very convenient how coalition airstrikes target Syrian assets and infrastructure

What Syrian assets and infrastructure have been targeted by the coalition Iains?

"I find it worrying you are so convinced of your own righteousness."

Rightness not righteousness! I am in good company PFR. Emily Thornberry says she is convinced it was Assad too.


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Apr 18 - 10:52 AM

"I find it worrying you are so convinced of your own righteousness."

on a forum like this we have the option of not taking such clump headed folks seriously, dismissing, and ignoring them...

It's when they wield real power in the real world that's truly terrifying...!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Iains
Date: 23 Apr 18 - 10:46 AM

I think truth is more important than hoops. There is plenty of data out there to to suggest that what has happened on the ground in Syria has a reality at odds with the story presented by the mainstream media. Some, like the sphinx may like to keep their orifices below the sand of the Nile and thereby remain closed to alternatives and thus inscrutable. I however get the hump, like the camel, when people refuse to entertain the idea that perhaps other beliefs may have a factual basis.
Very convenient how coalition airstrikes target Syrian assets and infrastructure and simultaneously the terrorist are able to reform and attack.
Very inconvenient when said terrorists are found to have caches of western weaponry. Does Father Christmas shower his largesse on terrorists?
This thesis could be developed extensively but it would be a wasted effort.
I find it worrying you are so convinced of your own righteousness.


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Apr 18 - 08:30 AM

"Iains, Syria is a civil war."

.."Please may we bomb your homes to maim & kill your families, thank you very much...???"


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Apr 18 - 08:20 AM

I think you are jumping through hoops, Iains. Any minute now you will not be able to jump high enough and you will 'lose' ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Apr 18 - 07:31 AM

Iains, Syria is a civil war.
No Western country is engaged on either side.
Russia and Iran are heavily engaged on the side of Assad, otherwise he would not be winning.

So you have no interest in the fact that thousands of people are being killed in a totally illegal war performed without UN sanction

Not by us or any Western power.


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Iains
Date: 23 Apr 18 - 07:24 AM

"Why, why, why Delilah ?"
I am as confused as you! My original links are repeated below.
"A funny thing happened on the way to the forum"
here is the original.

https://www.globalresearch.ca/war-is-good-for-business-insider-trading-secret-information-and-the-us-led-attack-against-syria/5637056

and the second

https://www.blacklistednews.com/article/65342/missile-manufacturer-raytheons-value-rose-by-25-billion-immediately-following-the-syria.html


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Apr 18 - 05:42 AM

I make your links Russian millionaire's Global Research and "not available"
"Why, why, why Delilah ?"
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Iains
Date: 23 Apr 18 - 05:35 AM

Keith if you need to be told I suggest you sign up for remedial classes.
It is estimated in excess of 400,000 Syrians have been killed. The media may call it a civil war, but there is plenty of evidence to
suggest it is a proxy war, initiated by the same people that destroyed Libya and Iraq.

With the added bonus of this and
that


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Apr 18 - 04:34 AM

Iains,
So you have no interest in the fact that thousands of people are being killed in a totally illegal war performed without UN sanction

What war is that Iains?


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Apr 18 - 06:57 PM

"So you have no interest in the fact that thousands of people are being killed in a totally illegal war performed without UN sanction. "
I'm more interested that many thousands more have been systematically detained, torturesd and murdered for decades without the Us, the UN or Britain showing the slightest interest in stopping it - your refusal to discuss it is an indication that it doesn't disturb you in the slightest
The coalition was a product of the failure of anybody to do anything to stop it so when those same people who sat on their hands and did SFA while that was going on invade a country strikes me as unbelievably hypocritical
Waste of time my asking you to comment on that one (again)
Isis is our monster - we turned a group of interned cranks into a world threat and you want me to pick sides - no thanks
I watched the victims of the gas attacks being cleaned up by rescue teams - I've watched the survivors cradling their dead from Assad's slaughter of civilians for several years now, I read the daily stories of the massacres - particularly in Homs, I watched the series on the refugees who made it to Britain where survivors sporke over the telephone to their families back in Syria
Ths is probably the worst closely day-to-day reprted series of atrocities ever and you want me to worry about an attack that hasn't been sanctioned by the U.N. - are you for real?
One of the things I find most grotesque in all of this, and for that matter, of all wars, is that there are legal and illegal ways of slaughtering thousands and that all you have to so is get permission from a committee and you can invade anybosy.
For crying out loud - what kind of    Science-Fiction world are we living in.
I've made my point about the invasion - I'm against it, but that doesn't mean I'm taking sides, as you are
I will be surprised if you respond to any of this - you haven't so far
Jim Carrolll


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Iains
Date: 22 Apr 18 - 06:28 PM

So you have no interest in the fact that thousands of people are being killed in a totally illegal war performed without UN sanction. A war carried out by the same coalition responsible for a death toll that exceeds largely unsubstantiated allegations of Assad's killings by hundreds of thousands. Your tunnel vision ideology leads you up some inhuman pathways.
   Nearly 50 years ago, Bob Dylan romped through a century of American warfare in his song “With God on Our Side.” From killing Indians to developing nuclear weapons, in Dylan’s view Americans acted with the hubris of knowing they had divine approval. After all, “You never ask questions / When God’s on your side.
    What were the justifications offered?
    Humanitarian in Libya
    Alleged WMD in Iraq
    Alleged Chemical weapons Syria

    Does the view above, eloquently expressed by Dylan, explain why you only assign guilt to one side?


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Apr 18 - 10:44 AM

Still taking sides
Not interested


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Iains
Date: 22 Apr 18 - 10:03 AM

Jim I keep saying there are no angels in this confrontation. My interest is trying to unravel the truth. The reasons given in the mainstream media merely provide unverified pretexts for illegal actions. The way the novichok fiasco is unravelling lends credence to this belief.
Had russian counter missile defences really taken out all those missiles, what would that do to the stock of Lockeed and others of their ilk that thrive on the international arms trade? So what to make of competing claims as to who shot down what?
What to make of Genie Energy drilling illegally on the Golan Heights in stolen Syrian territory? What to make of America sitting on Syrian Energy sources?
Perhaps being a banker should be made a capital offence?


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Apr 18 - 08:27 AM

"Jim the only way to judge severity is by the number killed. "
I'm not attempting to judge the "severity" neither should any human being be; it's the cause of these shitty wars that should concern us and the effects they are having on this planet and its people
Neither Assad or his opponents can take the high ground her so why support any of them - nobody ever asked me or mine whether our money should be spent in the pursuit of oil (which is what all these things are basically about)
Just watched a survivor of the latest Afghanistan atrocity - a young woman who said "all I want is to live lives in peace and go to college - too much to ask?
Not as far as I'm concerned
Any moron who believes that these attacks were made "on humanitarian grounds: " is a friggin' moron (but in this case, we knew that anyway
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Iains
Date: 22 Apr 18 - 08:15 AM

Jim the only way to judge severity is by the number killed. Putting labels on participants does not lessen the crime.

"Another anonymous quote (from The Strategic culture Foundation) doesn't move us on from here one iota"
The authors clearly list themselves.
You make your usual attack on the source, not the content.

Do you expect me to also discount everything in the mainstream media simply because they are proven organs of propaganda or a particular political bias?
I make this point again. Do you only believe what the BBC tells you?

I make no secret of casting my net as wide as possible. I also make it very clear I do not believe everything my sources say.

Can you not sort wheat from chaff, or do you throw the baby out with the bathwater?


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Apr 18 - 07:59 AM

"
Jim there are nuggets of truth in what you say, but your presentation skills need work on. "
Matter of opinion - they seem clear enough to most people
"How many has Assad killed in the last 10 years?
How many the coalition?"
Not even a consideration - once certainly does not cancel out the other and Assad's reign of terror goes way back beyond the present conflict and is the cause of it
You can't justify crimes by pointing to other criminals
Assad tortured and murder many thousands before Isis was the tinkle in anybody's eye and when this is all over he will murder many more if he is not banged up as a war criminal - the nature of the beast
Everything else in your posing is an example of your taking sides, which sets you apart from the rest of us - as far as I am concerned, my concern has been for the loss of life and liberty of vast masses of humanity - as far as the politicians are concerned - I hope they all rot in their self-made hells and leave the the rest of the planet to get on with their lives
Another anonymous quote (from The Strategic culture Foundation) doesn't move us on from here one iota
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Apr 18 - 07:28 AM

“Military force used against a state to punish it for infringing an international convention violates the prohibition of force under international law,”

That was not the legal argument used.

BBC,
"In the summary of legal advice given by Attorney General Jeremy Wright to Mrs May, Downing Street outlined why the UK was "permitted under international law" to take measures in the face of "overwhelming humanitarian suffering".
It said there were three reasons why the strikes met international laws for military action on humanitarian grounds:
The "repeated lethal use of chemical weapons by the Syrian regime constitutes a war crime" and it was "highly likely the regime would seek to use" such weapons again
Other attempts to "alleviate the humanitarian suffering caused by the use of chemical weapons" had been blocked and there was "no practicable alternative" to the strikes
The action was "carefully considered" and the "minimum judged necessary for that purpose""


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Iains
Date: 22 Apr 18 - 07:24 AM

Jim there are nuggets of truth in what you say, but your presentation skills need work on.

The media present Assad as a murdering tyrant.

How many has Assad killed in the last 10 years?
How many the coalition?

Seems the tyrant aspect is dominant over the murdering.

A few items to consider:

1)We are told most chemical weapons are binary.
Question: The recent missile mission in Syria supposedly targeted the factories producing chemical weapons. Now if you blow up stockpiles of A and B do they not mix? When they mix do they not produce toxic clouds?
Now who is the guilty party in this case? How many people were poisoned as a result of this carefully crafted chemical weapon attack?
Was is not a war crime worthy of International opprobrium?
What did we have? not a whisper!
I notice that during a recent UN debate when the Syrian representative had the floor to point out a few uncomfortable truths, the arrogant US representative got up and walked out!

2) The Novichok story by no means convinces everyone.
A summary below.
summary

3)The chemical weapon allegation at Douma was publicised as a false flag event by the Russians and Assad weeks ago. The first western reporters on the ground report false flag-no evidence seen. White helmets evacuated along with the terrorists. I wonder why?

4) The missile attack was supposedly on chemical weapon facilities, the Russians claim the attack was to degrade Syrian air defences.
Who to believe?
What are the more strategically important targets?

5) The coalition(US) had no UN sanction for the missile attack.
Why carry it out before the OPCW had time to investigate and report?

6) The media rarely mention is that Chinese troops are already on the ground in Syria to fight thousands of Uyghur militants, whether in ISIS or the Chinese al-Qaeda.


"The United States is not the only country with red lines. By disregarding and violating other states’ legitimate security interests, be it Russia or China, President Donald Trump risks opening the Pandora’s box of drawing in additional great powers to defend the Syrian government from terrorists and regime change.
China has key interests in Syria"


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Apr 18 - 05:30 AM

As happens Iains I am in ttal agreement over the illegality of this attack - nothing about this dirty, dirty war is or should be legal
Not the point
The important things is that it is immoral and inhuman and siding with one side or the other makes anybody who does that part of it
If you find that "insulting" - feel free to do so
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Apr 18 - 04:26 AM

"Insults to make up for lack of substance in your argument?"
No - this is eaxtly what you are doing
Unless you have reduced to Keith's level of ignoring arguments by claiming nobody is producing it, it is you who is not putting forward YOUR case
"Can you not make a post without being abusive?"
Where is there any abuse in my posting?
"Perhaps the moderators should chastise you, instead of simply closing the threads you infect. "
Back to your old self - pity!
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Iains
Date: 22 Apr 18 - 04:15 AM

You are still scooping up and flinging around meaningless opinions from the most bizarre sources which is probably why you are failing to identify them.
Insults to make up for lack of substance in your argument?
Are you one of the muppets that cannot believe anything unless delivered on a plate with all the trimmings by the BBC? or perhaps you have not been taught the delights of google? or maybe you   refuse to believe others do not agree with your narrow, blinkered, entirely obsolete mindset?

Can you not make a post without being abusive? Perhaps the moderators should chastise you, instead of simply closing the threads you infect.


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Apr 18 - 03:24 AM

"Military force used against a state to punish it for infringing an international convention violates the prohibition of force under international law,"
I am totally opposed to the airstrikes but they weren't made to "punish" anybody - Assad and Russia will remain friends of Britain and America as long are they are useful
It is language like this that avoids the important issues here
The raids were "gesture politics" - an attempt to appear as if something was being done when in fact the situation is still the same and civilians are still being slaughtered daily.
If human rights and war crimes were an issue, action should have been taken when the knowledge of how Assad was dealing with opponents (as far back as 2006) became public knowledge.
Had this happened the world would never have had Isis to deal with
You are still scooping up and flinging around meaningless opinions from the most bizarre sources which is probably why you are failing to identify them.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 10:58 PM

Big story on BBC today is the untimely death of a Swedish DJ.......
Not a lot of time left for other less important breaking news....!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Kenny B
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 06:44 PM

Iains .. "I wonder if the BBC or CNN pick up on   this:"
          I hope you are not holding your breath


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Iains
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 05:24 PM

I wonder if the BBC or CNN pick up on   this:


"The United States, France and the United Kingdom violated international law by launching airstrikes against Syria in response to a suspected chemical weapons attack, an independent German parliamentary report has found."

“Military force used against a state to punish it for infringing an international convention violates the prohibition of force under international law,” said the report by the German parliament’s non-partisan


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 12:50 PM

"I'd love this to be a catalyst for exposing Boris/May in some related collusion over the on-going Salisbury dirty doings..."
Me too, but to be perfectly honest, they're doing a great job in shitting on their own doorstep to need out help - leave it to their expertise in that
Personally, I think the next step is going to be stopping Assad from wreaking his revenhge
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Iains
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 12:47 PM

Follow the money!
Europe’s second-largest gas supplier after Russia exported 116 billion cubic meters (bcm) of natural gas via pipelines to receiving terminals in Britain, Germany, France and Belgium last year, up from the previous record of 108.6 bcm in 2016.

Norway’s pipeline gas exports meet about a quarter of Europe’s demand.
BUT: in the 2020's production will decline.
Quatar has the 3rd largest gas deposits in the world. The trans Syrian pipeline to export to the Med. is simply not going to happen. Russia, Syria and Iran say so. Reason Below.


When Norway puts the brakes on who is going to take up the slack.
Who is going to calling Mr Putin SIR?

Russia         47,800,000         million cubic meters reserves.
Iran           34,020,000         
Qatar                24,530,000


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 12:40 PM

Jim - all's ok..

Basically everywhere else it's "Russia definitely dunnit" - and even though they quite likely did,
I'd love this to be a catalyst for exposing Boris/May in some related collusion over the on-going Salisbury dirty doings...

That'd be a good result..
to get rid of the tory govt blight on Britain for at least another 5 years...

[well it's a sunny spring Saturday - gotta aspire to have some positive dreams...]


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 12:22 PM

Sorry - not being definitive about all this - I really would be interested in a response to what Britain could possibly gain from this - ***** if I can work it out
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 12:17 PM

"But your insistent condemnation of Russia is getting a bit overwhelming"
Sorry - have I nor said that no evidence exists - could have sworn I had?
I said I see no reason why they didn't - THE HAVE DONE SIMILAR THINGS IN THE PAST, (or are you suggesting the Boris/May Govt did did this for their own cynical devious Tory ends as well)... they interfered in the American elections and possibly the Brexit referendum.... not the Russia I knew.
I watched the programme on the Trump/Putin/Mafia links and realised how firmly the new Russia has moved to being one of Keith's "decent, democratic and fair minded countries" with all that implies
I have no doubt that British security are quite capable of having carried out such an attack, but what on earth have they got to gain from it?
Britain has been totally wimpish in its attitude to Assad and to Putin - what has happened to change that?
Nothing, as far as I can see
When all this is over Assad, Putin and whatever right wing moron running Britain will climb back into one another's pockets - the British establishment needs "a safe pair of hands" at the helm in "free" Russia
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 12:06 PM

Jim - reason for my last post is a reminder of the thread title
[which I forgot to include in that post..]

"BS: If Russia didn't do it..?"...

here we entertain the hypothetical notion of other remotely possible culprits... that's all...

In my mind, this is an anti - tory thread... but then, that's what all threads should be...!!!



Comrade Punkerovfolkrockerski


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Iains
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 12:00 PM

Do you not notice that gory photos and video clips are not shown in the UK. War is only shown in a sanitized form. That is obvious censorship, on the grounds that you do not want to give kids or little old ladies nightmares. I doubt anyone has an argument with that.
That is merely a part of what happens however. D notices and spin masters primarily, if not exclusively serve, the government and their handlers. What is presented is for the majority to graze on, because only a minority questions the content.

An example using climate change:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/268074188_Twist_and_Shout_Images_and_Graphs_in_Skeptical_Climate_Media

If the messenger cannot be removed, first destroy his reputation and credibility.

Example: Dr David Kelly was officially Chief Scientist for Chemical and Biological Defence at Porton Down and head of microbiology at the Defence Science and Technology Laboratory.
He was acknowledged to be a foremost expert in the field of biological and chemical weapons.
Yet...
Aug 5, 2003 - Downing Street was forced to admit last night that a senior official had tried to discredit the Iraq weapons expert David Kelly by describing him as a Walter Mitty fantasist.

To take on faith the utterances of government is very, very foolish!


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 11:25 AM

Side stepping them I hope, Raggy :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 10:49 AM

Jim - we understand you are mightily disillusioned with Russia, and for very good reasons...

..and chances are, ultimately Putin's Russia is actually to blame for everything...???

But your insistent condemnation of Russia is getting a bit overwhelming
whilst others here are proposing a sceptical doubtful analysis
of how our Boris/May Govt is exploiting this Salisbury incident
for their own cynical devious tory ends...

You may actually be in danger of starting to sound a bit like you're crossing the floor to K****'s side...!!!?????

Which would be entirely bonkers,
and obviously not really where you are intentionally going with this anti Russia sounding line of argument...????

Gotta be careful K**** don't start thinking you're becoming mates with him...

Comrade Punkerovfolkrockerski


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Raggytash
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 10:48 AM

You're jumping through hoops Dave!!


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 10:44 AM

If no evidence exists ideology and past record is all we have to go on
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: bobad
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 10:33 AM

The best we can do it listen to all the arguments and make up our own minds.

Alternatively, the worst we can do is ignore all the evidence on ideological grounds.


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Iains
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 10:19 AM

"Information is becoming less and less available despite the internet"
That is probably true if qualified by a timeframe encompassing the rapid growth of internet access. This would probably be since 2000.
The TV age has only really existed in the UK since the mid 50's
The BBC started in 1922. Telegraphy by semaphore in 1797,electrically 1822. The first transatlantic cable 1858. Spreading news was obviously subjected to natural constraints until the growth of satellite communications and the internet.
Government everywhere likes to control who knows what, irregardless of what part of the political spectrum they inhabit. They have been trying desperately to censor it, especially in recent years.
Probably deregulation and charging for bandwidth will do much to throttle it back and coupled with search engine interference the internet of tomorrow will be semi castrated. But they will still hoover up your every key stroke. Control is the name of the game.
However for most applications the internet is a research instrument without equal.


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 09:15 AM

It is folly to believe anything that governments tell you blindly and equally nonsensical to trust any media source. The best we can do it listen to all the arguments and make up our own minds.


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 06:53 AM

I would suggest that they are hidden from any strangers, given the nature of the attack
It seems that, now the site of the attack has been opened up, the public may be at risk from the poison used
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 06:45 AM

"The jury is still out, on what can only be an allegation, as yet."
Until it is "in" - you don't give the accused access to the victim


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 06:44 AM

Incidentally
Back in 1968 I was part of the massive demonstration against Vietnam at the American Embassy in Grosvenor Square - I had Peggy Seeger as a minder (still makes me wake up with the cold sweats when I remember her enthusiasm)
I was pissed of to see a number of "demonstrators" i assumed were Anarchists using placards as spears to hurm at the police lines - until I saw the same "demonstrators" in the police lines keeping the crowds back
Anarchists or agents provocateurs this in no way lessened the justice of the demonstration against what was happening in Vietnam
MI5s involvement in no way lessens the justification ao the Arab protests (unlss, of course, you claim that they had no reason to protest in the first place)
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Iains
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 06:43 AM

The jury is still out, on what can only be an allegation, as yet.
Interesting they are hidden from the media. Are they still in the UK?


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