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BS: If Russia didn't do it..?

punkfolkrocker 26 Apr 18 - 11:20 AM
Jim Carroll 26 Apr 18 - 10:52 AM
Iains 26 Apr 18 - 09:32 AM
punkfolkrocker 26 Apr 18 - 08:58 AM
Donuel 26 Apr 18 - 08:15 AM
Dave the Gnome 26 Apr 18 - 07:38 AM
punkfolkrocker 26 Apr 18 - 06:57 AM
punkfolkrocker 26 Apr 18 - 06:56 AM
punkfolkrocker 26 Apr 18 - 06:54 AM
Dave the Gnome 26 Apr 18 - 03:57 AM
Iains 26 Apr 18 - 03:56 AM
Jim Carroll 26 Apr 18 - 03:48 AM
Dave the Gnome 26 Apr 18 - 03:21 AM
Keith A of Hertford 26 Apr 18 - 03:15 AM
Jim Carroll 25 Apr 18 - 06:49 PM
Steve Shaw 25 Apr 18 - 06:38 PM
Steve Shaw 25 Apr 18 - 06:17 PM
Steve Shaw 25 Apr 18 - 06:15 PM
Dave the Gnome 25 Apr 18 - 10:06 AM
punkfolkrocker 25 Apr 18 - 09:57 AM
Dave the Gnome 25 Apr 18 - 09:48 AM
punkfolkrocker 25 Apr 18 - 09:47 AM
Keith A of Hertford 25 Apr 18 - 09:32 AM
Iains 25 Apr 18 - 06:40 AM
Keith A of Hertford 25 Apr 18 - 06:36 AM
Dave the Gnome 25 Apr 18 - 06:29 AM
Iains 25 Apr 18 - 06:21 AM
Dave the Gnome 25 Apr 18 - 05:26 AM
Keith A of Hertford 25 Apr 18 - 04:19 AM
Iains 24 Apr 18 - 04:55 PM
Kenny B 24 Apr 18 - 04:32 PM
bobad 24 Apr 18 - 04:08 PM
Iains 24 Apr 18 - 03:52 PM
Dave the Gnome 24 Apr 18 - 03:51 PM
Kenny B 24 Apr 18 - 03:35 PM
Raggytash 24 Apr 18 - 03:25 PM
punkfolkrocker 24 Apr 18 - 01:35 PM
punkfolkrocker 24 Apr 18 - 01:32 PM
Keith A of Hertford 24 Apr 18 - 01:20 PM
Iains 24 Apr 18 - 01:00 PM
punkfolkrocker 24 Apr 18 - 12:48 PM
Dave the Gnome 24 Apr 18 - 12:39 PM
punkfolkrocker 24 Apr 18 - 12:33 PM
Keith A of Hertford 24 Apr 18 - 12:12 PM
Raggytash 24 Apr 18 - 11:22 AM
punkfolkrocker 24 Apr 18 - 10:35 AM
Iains 24 Apr 18 - 10:01 AM
Dave the Gnome 24 Apr 18 - 08:59 AM
Keith A of Hertford 24 Apr 18 - 08:36 AM
Iains 24 Apr 18 - 07:09 AM

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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 26 Apr 18 - 11:20 AM

Jim - yes that's an informative read.. but...

Is it not possible to ask mods for a single dedicated "Israel" perma-thread...?????

..a bit like setting up a boxing ring in a pub car park
to keep the hardcore aggro safely contained out and away from the bars of merry bantering boozers..


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Apr 18 - 10:52 AM

"Jim - This is what he wants. "
Sorry lads - too good an opportunity to expose this bunch of extremist reactionaries
Nice article in the Irish Times this morning which backs up Corbyn's comparing Israeli regime to Isis
Suppose the writer must be another "self-loathing Jew we are reading about more and more nowadays
Jim (back from Galway with a vengeance) Carroll

EUROPE MUST INTERVENE TO STOP THE GAZA SHOOTINGS
Ilan Baruch Opinion
Ilan Baruch is a retired diplomat and former Israeli ambassador to South Africa

An independent inquiry must be established to transparently investigate incidents in which live ammunition was fired at unarmed demonstrators
The use of military force to enforce an imposed regime is typical of colonialism. Israel adamantly rejects being deemed a colonial power in the Palestinian territories. Yet reality shows, time and again, that the government of Israel cannot claim to have a morally acceptable vision of the future if it continues using violence against unarmed citizens.
Shooting into a crowd of demonstrators who pose no danger to Israeli citizens or soldiers might prove to be a war crime. It is the duty of the international community, especially European Union member states, to intervene. Such use of live ammunition must be forbidden against future demonstrations.
Nearly a century has gone by since soldiers of the British Indian army opened fire at an unarmed, nonviolent crowd of pilgrims, gathering in a public garden in Amritsar, in Punjab. The crime of the 379
dead and hundreds of wounded was the mere fact that they assembled, in defiance of government decrees. The incident rattled India and Britain. Some historians claim this point in time, namely April 13th, 1919, was when Britain began to lose its grip on India and, ultimately, its entire empire.
Almost 60 years have passed since police forces in disarray fired into a mass of nonviolent demonstrators in Sharpeville, in South Africa. The demonstration was part of a large campaign headed by the ANC (and by its rival, the PAC) against the pass laws, a set of rules, imposed by the apartheid authorities, severely restricting the freedom of movement of most African citizens. The police shot 69 people dead and severely wounded 180 others. That day, March 19th, 1960, was the beginning of the end of the apartheid regime, dismantled 34 years
later, when free elections were first held.

UNARMED DEMONSTRATORS
On Sunday, January 30th, 1972, British forces opened fire on unarmed demonstrators in Derry. Thirteen people were killed on the spot, and another died a few days later from his wounds, in what would later be known as Bloody Sunday. Many years passed before the Saville inquiry deter¬mined that opening fire at demonstrators was unjustified and unjustifiable. The seeds of the Belfast Agreement were planted the day British soldiers shot at unarmed, nonviolent civilians.
On Friday, March 30th, civil-society organisations in Gaza initiated a new course of action: nonviolent protest. Tens of thousands of demonstrators have been assembling each Friday after prayer, at protest centres located along the border fence dividing the Gaza Strip from the sovereign territory of Israel. They will do so again tomorrow.
The Israel Defense Forces were prepared for the demonstrations. Snipers received orders to shoot live ammunition at demonstrators, in some cases even to shoot to kill. The soldiers were not defending themselves. Nobody was endangered - neither Israeli citizens nor the soldiers. Fire was opened to deter citizens from approaching the fence separating Gaza from Israel.
Israel’s nightmare is that masses of Palestinians cross the fence and sweep into Israel. The Israel Defense Forces would have no response to that. On the other hand the lives of Palestinians in
Gaza are becoming meaningless to many in Israel, for which history will surely judge us. An independent international inquiry must be established to transparently investigate incidents in which live ammunition was fired at unarmed demonstrators.
Yet where is the international community? Why do the protests seem so half-hearted? Why aren’t diplomatic means being used to deter Israel from such direct and brutal violence towards unarmed nonvio¬lent Palestinian demonstrators? Could the European Union and its members, including Ireland, believe that this isn’t
the time for a stern rebuke of Israel, as the situation in Syria is boiling to a point of conflict between the superpowers?
These countries might not be pleased with Israel’s conduct but seem to prefer the profitable economic co-operation between Israel and EU member states. Is Ireland, too, among the states that hope the demonstrations will just dissipate, saving them the trouble of a sharp diplomatic rebuke? What scares Israel about these nonviolent demonstrations in Gaza? The possibility that this form of popular protest will spill over to the West Bank and East Jerusalem, leaving the authorities helpless. Firing live ammunition at nonviolent, unarmed demonstrators is an act of inconceivable brutality, yet standing indifferently on the sidelines is inconceivable, too.

ILAN BARUCH'S RESIGNATION


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Iains
Date: 26 Apr 18 - 09:32 AM

Donuel. Try English!


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 26 Apr 18 - 08:58 AM

DtG - judging by very recent posts...


what may be more appropriate here is "Old Model Barmy"...?????


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Apr 18 - 08:15 AM

[Iains         I found a new BFF for you.]

Subject: RE: BS: Guns in America
From: beardedbruce - PM
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 03:39 PM

Donual,

If you HAVE an RPG, YOU are in violation of the law, and a felon...

You remain one of those with "stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one’s ownAs for " if you want a cure for all racism and religious bigotry, just get rid of all the different people"

Isn't THAT what YOU are in the process of doing? ANYONE who differs with YOUR opinions is evil, wrong, Nazi, and should be removed.

When do you start the ovens up? No room for ANY discussion.

[This is what a case of Conspiria looks like in stage 4. You are a 3]


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Apr 18 - 07:38 AM

By way of a diversion, PFR, I am currently listening to 'Thunder and Consolation' by New Model Army over earphones while pretending to work. Right up your street I reckon but you probably already know that :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 26 Apr 18 - 06:57 AM


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 26 Apr 18 - 06:56 AM

I can;t blame predictive text... "steadfast" is wot should have been spilled corrictly..


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 26 Apr 18 - 06:54 AM

Jim - K**** is getting desperate to provoke you...

stay streadfast mate...


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Apr 18 - 03:57 AM

Jim - This is what he wants.


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Iains
Date: 26 Apr 18 - 03:56 AM

Another botched attempt? What a bunch of amateurs?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5655125/Scientist-developed-Novichok-poison-used-Salisbury-run-car.html

As believable as below!

http://lasvegas.cbslocal.com/2016/08/10/the-list-of-clinton-associates-whove-died-mysteriously-check-it-out/


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Apr 18 - 03:48 AM

"It shows again how extreme your views are. "
Someone who describes as "silly" and ""harmless", an antisemitic poem calling for the death of Jews written by a wartime fascist who was head of a group preparing for Hitler's victory in the war - is the last one in the world to accuse anybody of being "extreme" Keith
In your sick support for that piece of antisemitic filth, you are supporting not only an attack on the Jewish People at a time when they were being rounded up for mass-extermination, but also the gang who were preparing for the Nazis to take over Britain
I have put up the poem - you have never withdrawn your views on it, despite the fact that we now know that the predictions of the mass-murder of Jews cane into fruition six milionfold shortly after it was written
In the full knowledge of those deaths, Bobad, Robo and Bearded Bruce - all enthusiastic accusers of the rest of us as "Jew haters" support Ramsey's poem with their refusal to condemn you for the anti-semite you have proven yourself
Anybody who would like to see the people Keith and his team are supporting - Look up Archibald Maule Ramsey - a true 'British Gentleman'   
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Apr 18 - 03:21 AM

Interesting report from the Home Affairs committee that contains the truth of the matter, Steve. But, as I said, it does not belong on here. I have bookmarked the page for future reference. There will, of course, be cherry picking from it by certain parties but, having read it in full, I can confirm that there is more in our favour than otherwise.


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Apr 18 - 03:15 AM

Keir Starmer said on R4 just now that those who deny the problem are part of the problem, which means you guys.
He said he spoke for Corbyn too.

It shows again how extreme your views are.


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 06:49 PM

"Just Labour"
It is now impossible to distinguish between Antisemitism and criticism of Israel
OFFICIAL
Talk your eye off a moron for five minutes and he becomes a bigger moron
Proven beyond a shadow of doubt
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 06:38 PM

I'm getting addled. It was ok after all!


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 06:17 PM

Er, dodgy sentence construction there but you know what I mean innit...


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 06:15 PM

Hmmm. Considering the rampant, naked Tory racism revealed by the Windrush outrage, which is oh so real, oh so awful and oh so disgusting, I should think that the confected "outrage" about so-called Labour antisemitism, whipped up by disaffected anti-Corbynites in Labour and by right-wing Jewish groups such as the Board Of Deputies (the true antisemites), I'm amazed that anyone here should have the balls to bring it up again. What a laugh.

And, to the two trolls likely to respond, that's my piece and don't even begin to THINK that I'll enter into exchanges with you.


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 10:06 AM

That makes a change! :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 09:57 AM

DtG - you are soooooo right..


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 09:48 AM

Why on earth is someone going on about antisemitism in a thread about dodgy Russian dealings I wonder.

Trolling I guess. Just ignore it.


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 09:47 AM

Right..

Right then...

Righty tighty - lefty loosey...


... handy to remember for those with loose screws...


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 09:32 AM

BTW, the lead item on BBC and ITV news today, yet again, is Labour Party anti-Semitism.
Just Labour.
I was right about that too.


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Iains
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 06:40 AM

No Dave. I am having a boring morning so I am playing with Mr. Google.

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-qa-is-saudi-arabia-funding-isis

and one for the trump haters here, all's about Hilary


https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/hillary-clinton-wikileaks-email-isis-saudi-arabia-qatar-us-allies-funding-barack-obama-knew
Three cheers for Wikileaks!


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 06:36 AM

Iains,
support for Isis via Quatar and Saudi has been alluded to by various sources

Yes, and you could have mentioned Turkey too, but no Western involvement.

Thus far the war in Syria has been by proxy.

Then who are the proxy comabatants? No Western country.


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 06:29 AM

OMG - Now you are inviting retribution from bobad as well. Are you a masochist?


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Iains
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 06:21 AM

Keith part of my response might have been a little tongue in cheek, but there is an underlying grain of truth. You appear to live in a fantasy world where everything can be as simple as black white yes no.
I think I have managed to paint a picture where it is pretty obvious everyone lies through their teeth and everyone that has come to the party has conflicting aims and desires. Humanitarian concerns are on no one's agenda.
Proxy support for Isis via Quatar and Saudi has been alluded to by various sources, and parachute drops of munitions to one set of crazies seems to always end up eventually with the Isis set of crazies. Munitions with clearly established identity and accompanying end user certificates end up in war zones thousands of miles from their stated destination. Planes unload at destinations never logged on any flight plan. Collusion occurs at all levels between many governments. The picture painted by the MSM could hang on any wall, but the bottom feeders thrive.
But never mind, you keep feeding on everything the presstitutes feed you. I prefer to cast my net far wider and as a result I see a far murkier world out there.
Meanwhile for anyone still bothering with this thread a couple of links to consider. The thing to ask yourself is "what game plan" is being followed?
Is the mighty coalition toppling a brutal dictator on the grounds of a humanitarian rescue on an epic scale? One is rather put in mind of the old adage "better dead than red" judging by the resultant death toll.
Or is it blindly following the script outlined by General Wesly Clark ,
the former Supreme Allied commander and Chief of NATO in Europe saying saying that within 5 years(from 2007) seven countries must fall, one of them is Syria.
An alternative view below.

https://www.globalresearch.ca/poison-gas-weapon-of-choice-for-false-news/5635839?utm_campaign=magnet&utm_source=article_page&utm

or the world according to the BBC (what they say is intriguing-what they do not say is significant.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-29004253

The next article is very interesting especially the last paragraphs.

https://www.wired.com/story/terror-industrial-complex-isis-munitions-supply-chain/

Thus far the war in Syria has been by proxy. The most likely candidate to make a severe escalation is Israel. Her continuing raids on Syria will eventually generate retribution. Israel has been a loose cannon in the Middle East for decades. It need to be put on a leash, not encouraged.


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 05:26 AM

Once again, Iains, don't say you was not warned!


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 04:19 AM

I am sorry for those remarks. I was unwell and not myself when I made them.
I asked Joe to delete them and apologised at the time.

PFR,
It seems to me that a chap persistently making 2+2=5.98765432345 to suit his own ends...
ie.. if you said 'that' then what you really mean is...


I did not invent the fact that Iains suddenly started talking about the war with Isis as if it was part of the civil war in Syria.
I did not invent the fact that when challenged he admitted "in all honesty when it comes to the various sects of headloppers I make no attempt to keep up with the name changes."

Iains,
the rest of the week (USA)is training Isis and rearming them to continue the "good" fight.

Completely untrue. US and Coalition air power has driven ISIS from all its territories and the survivors are now on the run.
Your claim is entirely made up by you. It has not been made by anyone else anywhere.


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Iains
Date: 24 Apr 18 - 04:55 PM

Apologies. No point in babbling about a mythical map above. Here is the link.


https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/interactive/2015/05/syria-country-divided-150529144229467.html

and a more confusing one.

https://syriancivilwarmap.com/


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Kenny B
Date: 24 Apr 18 - 04:32 PM

I sit corrected :<)


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: bobad
Date: 24 Apr 18 - 04:08 PM

Question for you good people, when did calling other posters "shits" become part of being civilised.

It has been apologized for so get off your high horse.


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Iains
Date: 24 Apr 18 - 03:52 PM

For Keith. A slight change of venue to illustrate the media war. I find the viewpoint quite challenging.

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/media-mass-deception-180409092703608.html

And to follow, a map of Syria showing the dispositions of all combatants. Apart from the US forces. However we are told they are east of the Euphrates (ie the Syrian and Kurdish border)

Now for anyone with a mind to think, the map represents the de facto partitioning of Syria with embedded assets to ensure it's permanence.
The Turks also have a Kurdish problem. (Divide and conquer?) There have been a number of coalition airstrikes in the vicinity of this border on Syrian assets and also on Deir Az Zor when Syria booted the "rebels" out a few months ago
As the map is from Al Jazeera the explanatory notes need to be used with caution.
Now it must be obvious to anyone that the entire area is a mishmash of competing factions, most not very nice people.
Being very cynical, I would say Isis fights the Syrian Army all the time and America carries out sorties on supposed Isis(in reality the Syrian Army) on mondays and thursdays, and the rest of the week is training Isis and rearming them to continue the "good" fight. But slowly the mask is dropping. The end game is regime change. Meanwhile the state dept and pentagon play mix and match.


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Apr 18 - 03:51 PM

Not so Kenny. The offending text, now deleted, read

You shits are in bed with Putin and Assad.


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Kenny B
Date: 24 Apr 18 - 03:35 PM

Raggy ... u on the right thread ? your mention of shits is the first on this thread


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Raggytash
Date: 24 Apr 18 - 03:25 PM

Question for you good people, when did calling other posters "shits" become part of being civilised.

Just wondering like ..........


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 Apr 18 - 01:35 PM

I'll mention that I've also observed aggressively conservative young americans employ similar argument tactics on youtube...

Not very mature of enlightened.. hopefully they may grow out of it...????


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 Apr 18 - 01:32 PM

It seems to me that a chap persistently making 2+2=5.98765432345 to suit his own ends...

ie.. if you said 'that' then what you really mean is...
"this this this this this and this, even though it's basically the opposite of what you meant when you said 'that'..."

is not a very positive, honest, intelligent form of debate...
never has been.. never will be...


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Apr 18 - 01:20 PM

Iains,
Well Keith in all honesty when it comes to the various sects of headloppers I make no attempt to keep up with the name changes.

So you are unable to distinguish between the war against ISIS and the Syrian civil war!

Hardly worth trying to discuss either with you then.

Like all civilised people, and the UN, I supported the war against the evil and genocidal ISIS. You are on your own on that one.

The West chose not to engage in the civil war, except in response to use of poison gas by Assad.
Russia and Iran chose to engage fully on the side of Assad, who was close to defeat but now close to total victory thanks to them.

Hope that helps.


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Iains
Date: 24 Apr 18 - 01:00 PM

Well Keith in all honesty when it comes to the various sects of headloppers I make no attempt to keep up with the name changes.
There is a narrative that the coalition is fighting the latest reincarnation of terrorists, but there is a strong counter argument that suggests covert support. There are numerous reports of helicopters whisking away the leading lights on the basis of when the going gets tough, the tough get going. It is never questioned where all those shiny brand new toyota technicals come from in their droves
And how do all those US and Nato munitions end up in terrorist hands and territory?
    There is sufficient data out there to suggest that the war about terror and fighting Assad in Syria is really all about promoting regional instability, regime change and the formation of fractious statelets that can be controlled easily.
A dispassionate review of the numerous data sources suggests we are being lied to on a scale that is unprecedented in all prior history.

It is time the emasculated mainstream media reclaimed their independence, integrity and curiosity. They have many questions to both ask and demand answers to.


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 Apr 18 - 12:48 PM

Any one up for writing a very boring overlong new folk song

"Russia dunnit - or did they...???         
yes they did
no they din't
yes they did
no they din't
yes they did
no they din't
yes they did
no they din't
yes they did
no they din't
Russia dunnit - or did they...???         
yes they did
no they din't
yes they did
no they din't
yes they did
no they din't
yes they did
no they din't
yes they did
no they din't
Russia dunnit - or did they...???         
yes they did
no they din't
yes they did
no they din't
yes they did
no they din't
yes they did
no they din't
yes they did
no they din't
Russia dunnit - or did they...???         
yes they did
no they din't
yes they did
no they din't
yes they did
no they din't
yes they did
no they din't
yes they did
no they din't

All join in now.. I think you know the words
you should have thought about getting a pint and going for a slash
when the last song finished.
All together now
repeat until last orders bell and chucking out time...


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Apr 18 - 12:39 PM

I think it was the zlangrunits of Alpha Centuri.

Either that or it was you. This whodunit business is very suspicious.


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 Apr 18 - 12:33 PM

May I be so bold to assert that this, and the previous similar titled, thread
responds to the official presumption that Russia dunnit..
Here we ask but what if they didn't.. who else did and why...???

It's an exercise in imaginative conjecture and hypothesis
to prioritise sceptical questioning over dogmatic answers..

That's all - mind stretching fun and games - hopefully to illuminate, rather than trivialise very serious current news events...

Therefore, in this context it's mostly irrelevant and boring if any folks keep banging on and on
that horrible big bastard Russia did it.. over and over again...

Not in this thread please...

Thread drift and interesting diversions are fine, no problems with that...
just stop banging with on with the same old monotonous tune that don't need to be sung here...!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Apr 18 - 12:12 PM

Iains,
So you have no interest in the fact that thousands of people are being killed in a totally illegal war performed without UN sanction.

The war against ISIS was sanctioned by UN, so you have just changed wars.

It is estimated in excess of 400,000 Syrians have been killed. The media may call it a civil war, but there is plenty of evidence to
suggest it is a proxy war,


Again, you and the rest of us were discussing the civil war, not the war against ISIS. The alleged poison gas attack was part of the civil war, not the war against ISIS.

This discussian has been about the poison gas attack in Syria and the nerve agent attack in Salisbury. The debate has been about Russia's culpability in those incidents.
Hence the title!

I suggest a new thread if you want to discuss the war against ISIS. Previously everyone here has supported it. You seem to be arguing against it. It should make for an interesting discussion.


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Raggytash
Date: 24 Apr 18 - 11:22 AM

Iains, I have appreciated many of your posts on this subject. You have provided many thoughtful, incisive and meaningful contributions and I'm sure many of us on here have learnt from you posts.

However you do not stand any chance at all of educating some people so for the sake of your sanity don't jump through any more hoops it is a complete waste of time. I'm sure you have noticed that I, and some others, ignore the idiot, some would say troll.


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 Apr 18 - 10:35 AM

Iains - it's like trying to reason with a mid Medieval era Crusader...???


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Iains
Date: 24 Apr 18 - 10:01 AM

Isis is operating on Syrian territory
The coalition is targeting Syrian territory
Strangely enough Syrians live Syria(Those that have not become refugees)
If Syrians live in Syria and the coalition has carried out thousands of missions releasing munitions in Syria, then it is naive to the point of blockheadedness to refuse to acknowledge that Syrians have likely been killed when in close proximity to explosions.

The Coalition has so far confirmed 218 of 2,493 claimed incidents as causing 770 civilian fatalities. In addition 85 further civilian deaths have been confirmed in unidentified incidents, at least 80 of which were the result of non-US Coalition actions.

In addition to these confirmed events, it is our provisional view at Airwars that between 5,181 and 7,920 civilian non-combatants appear likely to have been killed in 977 further incidents where there is fair and uncontested public reporting of an event – and where Coalition strikes were confirmed in the near vicinity on that date. Some 183 of these likely incidents were in Iraq (1,551 to 2,301 reported deaths) and 794 events in Syria (with a reported fatality range of 3,630 to 5,619.)

At least 1,281 children and 805 women are reported to be among those killed in confirmed and likely events, along with 4,697 or more civilians reportedly injured. Airwars presently lists the names of 2,976 reported civilian fatality victims from confirmed and likely Coalition events.

Across both nations, 151 alleged civilian casualty incidents have so far in our view been discounted, ie are highly unlikely to have involved Coalition aircraft (751 to 1,153 claimed deaths). This categorisation is often a result of Coalition feedback on alleged incidents. An additional 384 to 533 civilians reportedly died in 62 events where the reporting appears fair, but where it remains unclear whether the Coalition carried out any attack in the vicinity on the date in question.

A further 2,353 to 2,741 claimed deaths are attributed to 423 alleged Coalition airstrikes which are presently weakly reported or single-sourced.

An additional 6,581 to 10,271 asserted fatalities resulted from 510 contested events (for example, claims that the Iraq Air Force or proxy ground actions might instead have been responsible.)

Some 149 further contested events (943 to 1,384 deaths) may have involved Russian aircraft in Syria. And 21 additional contested events (139 to 179 deaths) were attributed variously both to the Coalition and to Turkey.
Now stop being a stupid boy and stop arguing. Wars kill people indiscriminately.


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Apr 18 - 08:59 AM

Don't say we didn't warn you...


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Apr 18 - 08:36 AM

Iains,
I would have severe reservations about the attribution of casualties

Syria would have reported any.

I know that the coalition and MSM like to emphasize surgical strikes, but even with smart weapons(and what percentage are dumb weapons?) mis targeting occurs.
How many surgical    strikes hit schools, buses,hospitals, generating capacity etc ect.


Again, Syria would have reported any.

The idea that civilians do not get killed by all sides in this conflict is preposterous.

It is preposterous to suggest that Western strikes have killed civilians in this conflict.
There has only been one previous strike against Assad. Last year an air base was hit.
Putin's and Assad's air strikes have caused civilian deaths in this conflict.

The strikes you now refer to were not against Assad or his regime. They were part of the war against ISIS, and not relevant to this discussion.
Syria was also fighting ISIS.


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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Iains
Date: 24 Apr 18 - 07:09 AM

Keith.
three U.S.-led coalition strikes on a school near Raqqa in March 2017 killed 150 residents - roughly five times the toll acknowledged by the Pentagon, which said at the time that dozens of militants and not civilians were killed.

The U.N. investigators found no evidence that Islamic State fighters were at the school and said the U.S.-led coalition had violated international law by failing in its duty to protect displaced civilians known to be sheltered there since 2012.


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