BS: If Russia didn't do it..?

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 11:12 AM

The posting is yesterday but the video is not dated.
I'm sure that if it true the US of A will make the most of it I'm sure Until then its unconfirmed , POTUS has another word for it ? : <)

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: bobad
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 11:30 AM

Definitely difficult to verify at this juncture as disinformation is a major weapon in today's wars.

The purported chemical attack in Syria is being denied, as is to be expected, by Russia and Syria and Russia is warning of dire consequences for any actions taken in retaliation. Meanwhile Trump is tweeting away blaming Obama.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 11:39 AM

If he's still in Mar a logo? is that's what's known as "par for the course"

It becomes dangerous when Fake news is intended as a double bluff N'est pas "par for the course"?

Discreditting the media is a separate tactic on its own

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Iains
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 03:24 PM

Putin is now related to the Pied Piper


Two guinea pigs belonging to Sergei Skripal died and his cat were sealed in the house and died after the Salisbury nerve agent attack, the government has revealed. Meanwhile the rats are thriving


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5591057/Salisbury-areas-sealed-police-infested-rats.html

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Tradsinger
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 05:09 PM

The Russians must be hopping mad. Not only did their assassination attempt not work, but they used a substance with an audit trail straight back to Moscow. What were they thinking? I don't think they thought this through or predicted the consequences.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: bobad
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 05:30 PM

The agent was designed to be used in a completely different delivery system not in the way it was to target an individual. I believe it was jury rigged by some scientist without proper testing. You are right to conjecture that it wasn't thought through.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Iains
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 06:09 PM

No doubt someone is hopping mad. The question still unresolved is precisely who that person might be. The latest "chlorine" gas attack in Syria has a similar problem, Who dunnit? When Syria is trouncing the opposition on every front and Trump announces US troops are leaving the oilfields north of Palmyra (while still actively building new bases) the devil's advocate may ask cui bono?
Is it another carefully choreographed media presentation by white helmet bullshit productions Inc?

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Iains
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 06:23 PM

"In violation of withdrawal lines, in a non-government-controlled area an SMM mini-UAV spotted on 4 April seven tanks (T-72), seven self-propelled howitzers (2S1 Gvozdika, 122mm), ten towed howitzers (five 2A65 Msta-B, 152mm, five D-30 Lyagushka, 122mm), seven multiple launch rocket systems (BM-21 Grad, 122mm) and seven surface-to-air missile systems (9K35, Strela-10), all stationary at an airfield on the south-eastern outskirts of Luhansk city (see SMM Daily Report 3 April 2018).

In violation of withdrawal lines in a government-controlled area near Kurakhove (40km west of Donetsk), the SMM saw a tank (type undetermined) on a flatbed truck heading south-west.

Beyond withdrawal lines but outside designated storage sites in a non-government-controlled area, the SMM saw ten tanks (T-64) near Kruhlyk(see the Ceasefire Violation section)."

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 07:54 PM

In reaction to the "Russian thing" The HLS is partnering with the NSA to scan and scrutinize every news producing agency of every ilk to determine which ones are the Instigating time bombs of chaos.

Through out the World.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Iains
Date: 09 Apr 18 - 05:29 AM

Never let facts get in the way of a good war.

https://off-guardian.org/2018/04/08/douma-chemical-attack-facts-so-far/

or even why the war exists

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/The-Natural-Gas-War-Burning-Under-Syria.html

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: bobad
Date: 09 Apr 18 - 07:49 AM

Lololol.......Off Guardian is a Russian fake news site.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Iains
Date: 09 Apr 18 - 11:03 AM

Yeah a bit like Trump won the elction!

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Apr 18 - 12:26 PM

It may be just the wrong sort of fake news.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Iains
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 04:26 AM

Like the following perhaps???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4utEI2EU64

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Iains
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 05:09 AM

Dr Busby in the youtube clip above is an interesting fellow. He is hated by the establishment for his work on depleted uranium and it is dismissed.(How convenient!)
He also drew attention to heightened radiation monitored in the UK after shock and awe in the Gulf. This was denied of course, as false news no doubt(long before the concept became popular)
Since then I believe Halliburton has taken over the sensors so they can be turned off should such a situation ever repeat.

I suspect he was correct.

https://books.google.ie/books?id=EE1VCAAAQBAJ&pg=PT2963&lpg=PT2963&dq=radiation+++measured+in+uk+from+shock+and+awe&source=bl&ot

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 07:07 AM

Iains congratulations. Your spasms of lucidity are refreshing.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Iains
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 07:14 AM

Unlike those of your goodself, that have yet to be seen!

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 07:23 AM

In answer to the original question maybe they did and maybe they didn't, the balance of probability indicating that they did.

However, idiots like Johnson spouting off his big ignorant mouth citing made-up evidence means the UK have no serious grounds or credence to state its case.

Mind you, if people are daft enough to vote Tory, that's the kind of thing you'd expect to happen.

Just be grateful that idiots like Johnson are nowhere near the justice system - otherwise nobody would ever be convicted.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 07:29 AM

What "made up evidence" did he cite?

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 07:37 AM

Don't fall for it SPB. Most people know exactly what you mean.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Iains
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 07:40 AM

I believe a rational person calls it myth, fantasy and bullshit!

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 07:49 AM

Porton Down says it was developed in Russia/Soviet Union. That is its source, as Boris said.
They also said that only a state could make it, and Russia does not admit sharing it with anyone.

Johnson denies lying or making anything up, and no-one in the opposition is prepared to describe what he said as a lie.

That is why I challenged your statement, "citing made-up evidence."
That has not been established.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: bobad
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 07:51 AM

Iains congratulations. Your spasms of lucidity are refreshing.

Except, in case you didn't notice, his attempt to steer the discussion away from Russia who are currently complicit in gassing civilians in Syria.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 08:04 AM

Apart from, unlike the nerve agent attack here, the alleged Syrian attack could cause a serious escalation of hostilities culminating in global destruction. You have to be pretty damn sure that Russia/Syria did indeed use chemical weapons before military intervention. Like the Salisbury poisoning, none of us here can categorically say who did it or even if it was done. There are enough people saying that what happened is very unclear and on that basis it would be foolish to take any action until proof is evident.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: bobad
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 08:17 AM

Here is a list of over seventy reported chemical attacks in Syria:

Wikipedia

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 08:43 AM

I am not convinced by the argument that if they did it before they must have done it this time. It is not the basis on which to start a war.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: bobad
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 09:09 AM

Right, just leave them to go on gassing their population, that's the ticket.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: bobad
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 09:15 AM



In case you haven't noticed there is a war which has been going on for seven years. It's time to stop the war and the gassing of innocent civilians.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 09:17 AM

Would you want to go to war on the basis of what may be true? I would want to make damn sure of my facts before I dropped the bomb on anyone. Particularly in this age of misinformation.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 09:23 AM

Dave,
There are enough people saying that what happened is very unclear

Yes but re. Salisbury, not anyone who has seen the evidence.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 09:27 AM

This war, and indeed all wars, does need to be stopped. But you do not stop a war with violence. All that does is replaces one war with another.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: bobad
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 09:29 AM

I would want to make damn sure of my facts

And how do you know that they aren't sure of the facts?

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 09:35 AM

How do you know they are? :-)

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: bobad
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 09:51 AM

Well gnome, I have seen the videos and read the descriptions of the effect of the gas on the victims from the medical staff treating them. I have also heard them telling of how the gas was preceded by barrel bombs which drove the people into shelters below ground and how they were suffocated by the heavier than air gas. Anyone who thinks this is some false flag or staged event is incapable of rational thought.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 09:58 AM

If you are right and the chemical attack you describe did take place then Trump and co. will stop one lot of innocent civilians being gassed by dropping bombs on another lot of innocent civilians.

If you are not right then Trump and co. will drop bombs on innocent civilians for no good reason whatsoever.

I am pretty sure i know which is the more rational decision. And it is not to do nothing, it is to get to the truth.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: bobad
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 10:04 AM

dropping bombs on another lot of innocent civilians.

Stupid statement.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 10:15 AM

Stupid statement? How so?

Dropping bombs on innocent civilians is a by product of war. What is different in this case?

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 10:25 AM

Dave,
But you do not stop a war with violence. All that does is replaces one war with another.

What about attacking Germany for invading Poland?

If you are right and the chemical attack you describe did take place then Trump and co. will stop one lot of innocent civilians being gassed by dropping bombs on another lot of innocent civilians.

Last time he attacked the military base that launched the chemical attack. No civilian targets.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 10:29 AM

As we all well know bob is a peace loving old hippy who longs for all violent armed conflicts around the world to cease immediately...



[spot the false news...???]

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 10:34 AM

PFR - :-D

When I was a lad, Spot was the dog, not the false news...

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: bobad
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 10:54 AM

As we all well know punkster is a peace loving old hippy who longs for deterrence against the slaughter of innocent civilians around the world to cease immediately...

See, two can play your stupid game.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 10:57 AM

Heard mention of a stupid game but not heard why dropping bombs on another lot of innocent civilians is a stupid statement yet.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 11:01 AM

Bob - it'd have been a lot funnier if you'd just gone "Grrrrrrrrr... pesky punkfolkrock kids...!!!!!"

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 11:04 AM

I'll do it for a Scooby snack. Unless Spot the false news gets to it first.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 11:06 AM

DtG,

It is a stupid comment because ( in the past, under Republicans {So Clinton's firing on the aspirin factory is excluded}) the US response is to attack MILITARY forces and installations. IE, when the last gas attack occurred, the base that launched the plane that dropped the bombs was specifically targeted.

So to claim the result is "dropping bombs on another lot of innocent civilians " is a stupid statement.

Capish?

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 11:09 AM

bob - anyway, I'll tell you just how hippy dippy idealistic I am...

I reckon any politician who declares war should be immediately arrested for war crimes...

Fortunately in the real world that can never happen,
so bloodthirsty folks can enjoy as many wars as they like
until the final world ending exchange of insults, threats, and WMD.....

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 11:13 AM

Lambrini - the true proletarian bottled plonk...!!!


[actually one chilled bottle aint too bad.. 2 bottles and you begin to feel your teeth disolving...]

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 11:14 AM

Bob - don't puzzle tooo hard.. it's not surrealist humour...
but acidently posted in the wrong thread...!!!

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 11:16 AM

In some cases, the alternative to war is what happened in Rwanda and Cambodia-


We should have stepped in and prevented those situations, and the attacks on Moslims in the Balkans. But, just as the great powers ignored the Turkish genocide of the Armenians, ( letting Hitler say " Who remembers the Armenians? as he set up the concentrations camps for Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals, and Communists)) we ignore what we should prevent at the risk of being held responsible by the future.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 11:33 AM

Bruce - while I'm still in hippy idealist mode...

Yes a truly great super-power should act to prevent and stop such genocides,
not turn a blind eye or prolong bloody conflicts for their own interests...


Now back to real world mode....