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BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters

Jon Freeman 22 Apr 18 - 07:19 PM
robomatic 22 Apr 18 - 07:13 PM
fat B****rd 22 Apr 18 - 01:05 PM
Donuel 22 Apr 18 - 10:10 AM
MikeL2 22 Apr 18 - 09:14 AM
Senoufou 21 Apr 18 - 03:32 PM
MikeL2 21 Apr 18 - 02:32 PM
Gda Music 21 Apr 18 - 02:02 PM
Steve Shaw 20 Apr 18 - 09:01 AM
Senoufou 20 Apr 18 - 08:49 AM
Mr Red 20 Apr 18 - 02:16 AM
Tattie Bogle 19 Apr 18 - 07:16 PM
Jim Carroll 19 Apr 18 - 09:04 AM
Jim Carroll 19 Apr 18 - 09:02 AM
Senoufou 19 Apr 18 - 08:19 AM
fat B****rd 19 Apr 18 - 08:06 AM
Senoufou 19 Apr 18 - 07:21 AM
fat B****rd 19 Apr 18 - 07:12 AM
Jim Carroll 18 Apr 18 - 06:07 AM
Mr Red 18 Apr 18 - 04:29 AM
Rapparee 17 Apr 18 - 09:24 AM
Gurney 17 Apr 18 - 12:05 AM
robomatic 15 Apr 18 - 02:51 PM
Mr Red 15 Apr 18 - 07:40 AM
robomatic 14 Apr 18 - 10:06 PM
keberoxu 14 Apr 18 - 09:59 PM
robomatic 14 Apr 18 - 09:56 PM
Bee-dubya-ell 14 Apr 18 - 06:50 PM
keberoxu 14 Apr 18 - 06:19 PM
Senoufou 14 Apr 18 - 03:31 PM
peteglasgow 14 Apr 18 - 10:11 AM
Senoufou 14 Apr 18 - 03:55 AM
Stilly River Sage 13 Apr 18 - 10:51 PM
Joe Offer 13 Apr 18 - 10:16 PM
robomatic 13 Apr 18 - 08:44 PM
Dave the Gnome 11 Apr 18 - 10:16 AM
leeneia 11 Apr 18 - 10:06 AM
Senoufou 09 Apr 18 - 08:52 AM
Nigel Parsons 09 Apr 18 - 08:41 AM
DMcG 09 Apr 18 - 08:34 AM
Rapparee 09 Apr 18 - 08:24 AM
michaelr 09 Apr 18 - 01:37 AM
robomatic 08 Apr 18 - 03:43 PM
Senoufou 08 Apr 18 - 12:59 PM
keberoxu 08 Apr 18 - 12:56 PM
Senoufou 08 Apr 18 - 12:54 PM
Bee-dubya-ell 08 Apr 18 - 12:09 PM
Jim Carroll 08 Apr 18 - 11:42 AM
Jim Carroll 08 Apr 18 - 10:46 AM
Tattie Bogle 08 Apr 18 - 10:29 AM
Bill D 08 Apr 18 - 10:21 AM
Mrrzy 08 Apr 18 - 09:19 AM
BobL 08 Apr 18 - 07:25 AM
Big Al Whittle 08 Apr 18 - 04:28 AM
Senoufou 08 Apr 18 - 04:20 AM
leeneia 07 Apr 18 - 05:27 PM
frogprince 07 Apr 18 - 05:10 PM
Joe Offer 07 Apr 18 - 01:29 AM
keberoxu 06 Apr 18 - 09:45 PM
Stilly River Sage 06 Apr 18 - 06:46 PM
robomatic 06 Apr 18 - 06:28 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 22 Apr 18 - 07:19 PM

Much preferred Michael Gambon but I can cope with RA in that role.

A couple of cringe-worthy to me.

Wesley Crusher/Wil Wheaton - Star Trek Next Generation.
Gail of several surnames/Helen Worth - Coronation street.


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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: robomatic
Date: 22 Apr 18 - 07:13 PM

I found Rowan Atkinson quite irritating as Mr. Bean but I can tolerate him as Maigret.


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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: fat B****rd
Date: 22 Apr 18 - 01:05 PM

Quite.


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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Apr 18 - 10:10 AM

It may be that there aren't really any quantities which are constant in time in the universe. The quantity of matter is not constant, because matter can be created or destroyed. But we might say that the energy of the universe would be constant, because when you create matter, you need to use energy. And in a sense the energy of the universe is constant; it is a constant whose value is zero. The positive energy of the matter is exactly balanced by the negative energy of the gravitational field. So the universe can start off with zero energy and still create matter.

[ ARE YOU ANNOYED?] If so you are being annoyed by steven hawking verbatim.

In simple terms, if you dig a hole the volume of the stuff you remove from the hole equals the volume of the hole.

As Minkowki geometrically demonstrates there can be more time than space in spacetime, an imbalance can occur that leads to a overall phase shift.
Just as water can go from a plasma to steam to liquid to ice, a phase change of the universe tends toward entropy and a lower energy state.

[STILL ANNOYED?] if so I already know I can be annoying.

I think annoyance is a good thing like one of our senses.


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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: MikeL2
Date: 22 Apr 18 - 09:14 AM

Hi Sen - ( hope you don't mind)

Yes I agree about us getting older and some things like this don't help.

We don't like Ricky Gervaise but Graham Norton we liked him in Father Ted. Don't like his chat show and don't watch Eurovision Song contest'

Another guy we don't like much is Nick Hewer on Countdown. We love the program but we can't stand his obsequious patronisg attitude

Regards Mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: Senoufou
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 03:32 PM

Wholeheartedly agree with Steve about Ricky Gervais and Graham Norton, two most irritating gentlemen.

Hello there Mike! What's so frustrating is not being able to listen to the music at the end, especially if it's something we love.
We're the same (old folk) very bad at remembering actors' names.
And sometimes, if a drama has been very moving, one wants to spend a few seconds reflecting, not hearing a voice-over and seeing the screen shrink.


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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: MikeL2
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 02:32 PM

Hi Sen

T could not agree with you more. We like to see the cedits. especially the cast of actors because we both like to know the names of familiar faces and the credits have solved many an argument between us.

At our age we are not good at multi tasking which is what this makes us try to do.

regards

Mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: Gda Music
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 02:02 PM

Many TV soaps characters appear to be quite confident actors. However a growing number seem to have developed an infuriating habit, namely in particular that of not being able to act out their scene until they have posed with arms folded across their chest first. Yes, that does irritate me!.

GJ


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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Apr 18 - 09:01 AM

Ricky Gervais in The Office was superb but I absolutely can't stand him in anything else. And I simply can't watch Graham Norton. In fact, I can hardly desist from inserting an expletive between the two parts of his name whenever I have to say it. If he's on I have to leave the room.


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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: Senoufou
Date: 20 Apr 18 - 08:49 AM

I hate it at the end of a programme when, one is enjoying the accompanying music and looking at the credits to see who was in it when they shrink the screen down and talk about programmes to come.
Can't they wait until the credits finish? Blooming annoying.


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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: Mr Red
Date: 20 Apr 18 - 02:16 AM

doesn't anyone watch on the PVR. I record (inc radio) and time shift. Skip 2 minutes (or twice) and you miss most of the ads. And even live, I pause and go and do things, especially if the phone rings. When ads (inc BBC promo) come on, I can skip.

Rarely do I need to hit mute, or as my Canadian cousin calls it, the Blab Button. Unless waiting for a good prog to start.

Has anyone noticed that programme makers have long ignored the ruling about jump-cut sequences and epilepsy? I am not a sufferer. AND I DON'T SUFFER THE PROGRAMMES NEITHER! Irritating so say the least. Fast forward makes them worse!


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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 19 Apr 18 - 07:16 PM

And why are the current series of promos for forthcoming programmes on BBC TV SOOOOO LOUD! At least 50 db up on anything you've just been watching. Why?


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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Apr 18 - 09:04 AM

Whoops
BEST EVER
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Apr 18 - 09:02 AM

TV ads
Bring back the cat and Budgie buddies, I say
Has anybody noticed how many great actors do ad voice-overs


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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: Senoufou
Date: 19 Apr 18 - 08:19 AM

Hahaha yes fB, she's really sweet isn't she?


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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: fat B****rd
Date: 19 Apr 18 - 08:06 AM

Hi there Eliza. I must say I like the one with the little girl in the back if the car singing "Proud Mary"


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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: Senoufou
Date: 19 Apr 18 - 07:21 AM

Aaagh! Don't get me started on the TV ads!! That awful woman warbling on the TUI advert, "Ain't nobody..". Gives me the rage. And that nitwit on the Plusnet one, "We'll do you proud!" No, he means "We'll do you."
I'm so busy with the 'sound off' button on the remote control I've worn off the little white sign on it!
There seem to be an inordinate number of terrible TV ads lately. The only one I really like is the Haribo one, where grown adults have children's voices dubbed over them. I love the tough-looking bearded chap who lisps "It maketh me look like a pwinceth!"


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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: fat B****rd
Date: 19 Apr 18 - 07:12 AM

I'm sure the actors are all lovely people but ANYBODY in UK TV ads about paying for your funeral so your family don't have to.
Grumpy fB


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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 06:07 AM

I'm getting verry irritated with the behaviour of the two new young women in Holby City (my cultural Achilles heel along with Casualty and Castle)
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: Mr Red
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 04:29 AM

All politicians!


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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: Rapparee
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 09:24 AM

ALL political "commentators".


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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: Gurney
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 12:05 AM

Booth in the TV series 'Bones.' He spends so much time looking at his passenger whilst driving, he deserves to have an accident. And then he doesn't!
Just for that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: robomatic
Date: 15 Apr 18 - 02:51 PM

I watched "Lost in Space" the reinvented 'new' series and found it quite as brainless as the original, with better looking effects. I found the background story more incomprehensible than TOS (The Original Series) which had a cheerful kinda 60s attitude, "hey we're just sending the family station wagon into space!" It's gonna be hard to give this new one a second chance, especially with Irwin Allen's name occurring in the credits.


'


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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: Mr Red
Date: 15 Apr 18 - 07:40 AM

Actually I could never take the name Rip Torn seriously, but he is a fine character actor and did exceedingly well playing real people.


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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: robomatic
Date: 14 Apr 18 - 10:06 PM

keboroxu:

I used to abominate Billy Mumy as well as Jonathan Harris, both on the original "Lost in Space". But truth be told, one of the reasons I hated the show was that my brother loved it. There was a show I loved at the same time, "Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea" and now that I can see both shows in my current dotage, I think they were both pretty awful.

Billy Mumy has had some inspired parts, the classic one being "It's a Good Life" which is one of the simplest scariest episodes of Twilight Zones ever aired (1961). He lived to act in the almost present (Babylon 5). I believe he's still around and acting.

I will work up the will to watch the new "Lost in Space" because Parker Posey is a gifted actor who has what it takes to be massively irritating. She may be an inspired bit of casting. I've found her enjoyable in the past, so this will be very intersting.


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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: keberoxu
Date: 14 Apr 18 - 09:59 PM

Or the Lithuanians,
bless their stubborn pagan
reluctant-to-convert-to-Christianity
forebears.


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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: robomatic
Date: 14 Apr 18 - 09:56 PM

You just leave that one to the French. They'll know.


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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 14 Apr 18 - 06:50 PM

The most irritating character on my screen is ^. I have no idea what it's for and I find that irritating.


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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: keberoxu
Date: 14 Apr 18 - 06:19 PM

Talking of that Doctor from Lost in Space:

They're doing a new take on Lost In Space on a different network.
And said Doctor will be played by
a character actress named Parker Posey.


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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: Senoufou
Date: 14 Apr 18 - 03:31 PM

Having sat through 'Gone With The Wind' in my early teens, I found the character of Melanie Hamilton (played by Olivia de Havilland) extremely irritating. She was totally wet and smugly noble and holy. One wanted to punch her frankly. I was quite pleased when she died.


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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: peteglasgow
Date: 14 Apr 18 - 10:11 AM

oompah-loompas

mr hankey (the christmas poo) was inspired

john travolta's sappy grin in 'grease' was as nauseating as turn in 'pulp fiction' was great


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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: Senoufou
Date: 14 Apr 18 - 03:55 AM

I have to confess to a secret enjoyment of Mr Hankey. Quite disgusting, but so funny!
A TV programme here ('Tattoo Fixers') showed a customer who had Mr Hankey tattooed on his bottom. But he didn't want it 'fixed' or removed, he wanted some more characters from the Hankey family added to it! He got Mrs Hankey and some Hankey offspring as well. At first I was horrified, but the more I thought about it the more I laughed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Apr 18 - 10:51 PM

Mr. Paperclip was really annoying. I didn't know he was called "Clippy." He was cute, but really obnoxious at the same time.


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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 Apr 18 - 10:16 PM

Robomatic, do you remember Microsoft Bob?


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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: robomatic
Date: 13 Apr 18 - 08:44 PM

In the spirit of Joe Offer, above, I offer you "Clippy"


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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Apr 18 - 10:16 AM

Ramsay Bolton in Game of Thrones wanted to make people throw things at the telly! Very satisfying when...

Oh, best not say in case someone has not seen it.

:D tG


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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: leeneia
Date: 11 Apr 18 - 10:06 AM

Hi, Big Al. I'm back. Yes, the movie with the irritating mumbling actress was Gosford Park. Have you seen it? Did you notice the mumbling?

DMcG, you make a very good point about an actor who makes you aware s/he's acting. That actress did it with her mumbling.

The tattoo sounds like a bad idea.


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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: Senoufou
Date: 09 Apr 18 - 08:52 AM

Willy Wonka played by Johnny Depp. Very weird in a rather unpleasant way, I found him to be quite sinister. Much preferred Gene Wilder in the role. He was eccentric but benevolent and sweet.


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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 09 Apr 18 - 08:41 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: Mrrzy - PM
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 09:19 AM
.
.
Dolores Umbridge got her comeuppance which made it OK, after, to have been so irritated by her.

She got collared by the centaurs in Order of the Phoenix, but still managed to escape to get a pretty good job in the Ministry of Magic.
I can't forgive her for misuse of Mad-Eye's eye on her door.


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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Apr 18 - 08:34 AM

There is a concept in books, plays etc. called "suspension of disbelief" The only really irritating characters are those who snap you out of the play or whatever into the real world, thus spoiling the play.

I recently watched (on BBC iPlayer) the version of Hamlet with Andrew Scott as the title character. He was amazing: you 100% believed him as the character, which such variety of stress, pauses and so on, that you had 'a real person' thinking and choosing just the right word to grasp at the right word, or with occasional slight pitch changes to indicate, mid sentence, Hamlet was unsure whether he had "quite got the right word there".

But his sheer skill showed up many of the others so you never really forgot they were actors. One actor in particular had a tattoo on the side of his neck which continually pulled you back to earth. (I find it odd that any actor would choose to have a visible tattoo - it must be role limiting.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: Rapparee
Date: 09 Apr 18 - 08:24 AM

Mosquitoes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: michaelr
Date: 09 Apr 18 - 01:37 AM

Benny Hill


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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: robomatic
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 03:43 PM

Well, I'm a Dick Van Dyke fan but his accent in "Mary Poppins" is a little irritating in retrospect, though when I was a young tyke watching the film I swallowed it whole.

One television show I could not take was "Gomer Pyle, USMC" for both the Gomer character and the Sergeant Carter character. The one was too gloriously yokel and the other had the capability of transmitting high blood pressure.

It lasted five seasons.


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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: Senoufou
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 12:59 PM

Anyone else found that Dolores Umbrage, and the way she dressed, reminded them of Margaret Thatcher?


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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: keberoxu
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 12:56 PM

Even I hated Bert the Chimney Sweep
(Dick van Dyke)
although I'm as North-American as he was.


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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: Senoufou
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 12:54 PM

Yes Tattie, poor Dick Van Dyke, his Cockney accent was...well...what can one say?
It makes me cringe every time.


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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 12:09 PM

Mickey Mouse.

Okay, I freely admit that, as a native Floridian, my disdain for the little rodent is due, in part, to his stature as a symbol for the conversion of huge swaths of my home state from wild-lands and orange groves into theme parks and high-rise hotels. But, all that aside, for God's sake, Mr. Disney, couldn't you have given the little fucker a real voice instead of that agonizing squeak?


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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 11:42 AM

"Gosford Park...?"
What was he in Al
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 10:46 AM

Anybody played by Woodie Allen, Steve Martin or Jim Carrey- irritating little men!
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 10:29 AM

For (non)musical reasons and for the accent - Dick Van dyke in "Mary Poppins" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_rVzBt20N0


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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: Bill D
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 10:21 AM

Acme... yes, Frank Burns.. (Larry Linville). To be fair, he decided himself that the Burns character was no longer working and opted out.

I don't know is anyone else here was caught up in the BritCom "Last of the Summer Wine", but I tolerated most of the odd characters until they got to the last couple of seasons and introduced Luther "Hobbo" Hobdyke, played by Russ Abbot. He made Frank Burns look good.
   There was also Babs Avery(Helen Turaya) who was beyond gross and lasted only one season.

   In another BritCom, "Still Open All Hours", a revival of a successful program from years before, they introduced several amazingly bad characters, of which the worst was "Gastric" (Tim Healy)


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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: Mrrzy
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 09:19 AM

The guy who wouldn't believe that Data could captain a starship. I can't stand him in anything else. Ditto for the guy who collected Data. Also, not irritation, but Christopher Walken in Scarecrow scared the shit out of me, and to this day I can't stand him in anything because of harkening back to Scarecrow.
Dolores Umbridge got her comeuppance which made it OK, after, to have been so irritated by her.


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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: BobL
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 07:25 AM

Tom Felton, on the bonus DVD, had some interesting things to say about "his character". Such as, his personal failings became pretty well understandable once you'd encountered Lucius.

Now Dolores Umbridge...


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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 04:28 AM

Gosford Park...?


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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: Senoufou
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 04:20 AM

I loathed that Draco Malfoy in Harry Potter (played by Tom Felton) and his thuggy mates Gregory Goyle (Josh Herdman) and Vincent Crabbe (Jamie Waylett) I especially hated that nasty smirk they all had.

These types of bullies are to be found in every school. They make my blood boil!


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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: leeneia
Date: 07 Apr 18 - 05:27 PM

Whoever played Elsie, the head housemaid in

uh oh

What was the name of that movie called Something Park that was set in England in the 1930's and they killed the evil duke/mill owner? What's-her-name, who never smiles, played the duke's sister.

Anyway, the actress who played the head housemaid drove me up the wall with her incessant mumbling.


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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: frogprince
Date: 07 Apr 18 - 05:10 PM

I don't remember what role names Gilbert Gottfried may have appeared under, but under his own name or any other, he's the incarnation of fingernails scraping on the blackboard of life.


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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 Apr 18 - 01:29 AM

The letters b, d, p, and q are very irritating screen characters. They're all the same, but in different directions.
The letters a and z are far more pleasing to the eye....


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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: keberoxu
Date: 06 Apr 18 - 09:45 PM

I well remember: Never Fear, Smith Is Here.
Impoverished Russian parents? He was in good company.

When they did the new flashy/angsty
Battlestar Galactica,
I thought Dr. Gaius Baltar was a right cockroach
and nothing could kill him
no matter how often he got stomped on.


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Subject: RE: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Apr 18 - 06:46 PM

They were doing their jobs well if you've harbored such resentment!

Frank Burns on M*A*S*H comes to mind. :)


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Subject: BS: Most Irritating Screen Characters
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Apr 18 - 06:28 PM

I don't think anyone has posted this yet, if they have, then this is a de-facto restatement of deeply held beliefs.

I have in mind the most irritating characters in television and movie history. This is a personal subject, for I have harbored death wishes for various characters without as a young person being aware that the actors are just doing their jobs.

I ask only that you take the trouble to find the name of the actor playing the detestable character (when such exists) when you post. This is open to both television shows (especially television shows with recurring characters) and of course especially noisome movie characters.

I'm gonna start with my pet favorite: Dr. Zachary Smith from the original "Lost In Space" played by Jonathan Harris. I've just for the first time researched him and found that he was born Jonathan Charasuchin in the Bronx to impoverished Russian parents. He originally had a Bronx accent.

If this thread is original enough and goes anywhere I'll have more to add.


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