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BS: DNA and other stuff I don't understand..

Dave the Gnome 08 Apr 18 - 02:59 PM
keberoxu 08 Apr 18 - 03:41 PM
Dave the Gnome 08 Apr 18 - 03:44 PM
robomatic 08 Apr 18 - 04:01 PM
Senoufou 08 Apr 18 - 04:07 PM
bobad 08 Apr 18 - 05:08 PM
rich-joy 08 Apr 18 - 05:22 PM
Acme 08 Apr 18 - 05:27 PM
Donuel 08 Apr 18 - 07:09 PM
Donuel 08 Apr 18 - 07:43 PM
Joe_F 08 Apr 18 - 07:57 PM
robomatic 08 Apr 18 - 09:39 PM
Dave the Gnome 09 Apr 18 - 06:36 AM
Nigel Parsons 09 Apr 18 - 07:43 AM
Senoufou 09 Apr 18 - 09:04 AM
Donuel 09 Apr 18 - 02:41 PM
Steve Shaw 09 Apr 18 - 07:35 PM
Jos 10 Apr 18 - 03:52 AM
Senoufou 10 Apr 18 - 04:11 AM
Steve Shaw 10 Apr 18 - 04:28 AM
Mrrzy 10 Apr 18 - 09:27 AM
Mr Red 13 Apr 18 - 02:50 AM
Keith A of Hertford 13 Apr 18 - 04:05 AM
Senoufou 13 Apr 18 - 05:15 AM
Steve Shaw 13 Apr 18 - 07:18 AM
Dave the Gnome 13 Apr 18 - 07:47 AM
Keith A of Hertford 13 Apr 18 - 10:12 AM
Donuel 13 Apr 18 - 10:31 AM
Steve Shaw 13 Apr 18 - 10:47 AM
Keith A of Hertford 13 Apr 18 - 10:52 AM
Keith A of Hertford 13 Apr 18 - 11:00 AM
Steve Shaw 13 Apr 18 - 11:32 AM
Donuel 13 Apr 18 - 11:50 AM
Keith A of Hertford 13 Apr 18 - 12:10 PM

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Subject: BS: DNA and other stuff I don't understand..
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 02:59 PM

Chatting over the dinner table about this and I realised I just don't know enough about genetics. It is fascinating to think how it could be used. If we are at the stage where we can switch off the gene that causes various diseaeses, what else can we do?

If a particular trait is inherent in family lines, an illness like some versions of muscular dystrophy for instance, can be switched off, can other traits, good or bad, be switched on and off?

Maybe criminal tendencies can be switched off and musical skills switched on!

If we can do this, is it ethical and where do we stop?

Discus nicely please :-)

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: DNA and other stuff I don't understand..
From: keberoxu
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 03:41 PM

... discus, javelin, shot-put ... hee hee hee


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Subject: RE: BS: DNA and other stuff I don't understand..
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 03:44 PM

On yes, and spelling. Or predictive text.

:-)


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Subject: RE: BS: DNA and other stuff I don't understand..
From: robomatic
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 04:01 PM

A true Pandora's box, containing:

A factory in N. Korea purely for the manufacture of Kim Jong-Ons.
A poison gas keyed to a single DNA strand. Let it loose all around the world and it will find and kill the one person it's designed for.
The octopuppy- Blending the most fun characteristics of the dog and the octopus -(From Big Bang Theory)
Decorative wings growing out of whatever animal you choose.
Glow-in-the-dark organs of your choice, such as people whose butts light up like fireflies.
My favorite: Green skin so I can photosynthesize.
We really will be able to be all thumbs.
Chickens that are all drumsticks.
Chickens that are all breast.
Cloning of historical characters.
Bringing back extinct animals, hopefully the fun ones.
That cat-bus from "My Neighbor Totoro".
The face-trees of Stark from "Game of Thrones"
Superhero stretch tights made from real spider silk.
Tinkerbell.


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Subject: RE: BS: DNA and other stuff I don't understand..
From: Senoufou
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 04:07 PM

I had one or two friends at Uni in the Genetics department, and they used to explain to me the latest findings. (This wasn't all that many years after Crick and Watson) but I'm the biggest ignoramus about the subject, sadly.

Ethically, it can only be wonderful to be able to modify genetic disorders, rectify disabilities and inherited health problems and so on.
My only reservations would be folk who want to 'design' their offspring, or on a wider scale attempt to produce a super race, add genetically engineered intelligence or immense physical strength. Then it becomes sinister in my view. They could even interfere with the ageing genes and make us all virtually immortal. No end of problems with that idea.

It's the same in a way as those cosmetic surgery programmes on TV. If someone is born deformed or has suffered mutilation for some reason, one is glad to see some surgical intervention to give them the appearance they desire. But if they merely want an enormous bust, goldfish lips or a 'pert' bottom out of vanity, I can't feel the same enthusiasm.


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Subject: RE: BS: DNA and other stuff I don't understand..
From: bobad
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 05:08 PM

This is a good article, written in understandable language, that explains where the technology to modify genes is at as of a year ago. I imagine things have progressed considerably since but in the article scientists state that treatments are two to three years off but they are confident they will become widely available to patients.

CNBC


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Subject: RE: BS: DNA and other stuff I don't understand..
From: rich-joy
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 05:22 PM

Reading cell biologist (and more) Bruce Lipton's first book "Biology of Belief" (2005?) and his (and others') subsequent texts on the science of EPIGENETICS, make fascinating reading on the updates to this topic!

Cheers, R-J


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Subject: RE: BS: DNA and other stuff I don't understand..
From: Acme
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 05:27 PM

One reason ethics was a problem associated with DNA from it's very first discovery is that only men were given credit. Rosalind Franklin did a great deal as well, but no Nobel and nary a mention for a very long time.


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Subject: RE: BS: DNA and other stuff I don't understand..
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 07:09 PM

Rich-Joy

The insight of putting DNA in a larger epigenetic dimensional world is a magnificent step forward for us. It is like accepting the adaptability of DNA over 4 billion years of learning and perhaps longer and draw upon that knowledge in a single lifetime.

What did you think, that DNA is a stand alone molecule?

It interacts by from and to the universe.


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Subject: RE: BS: DNA and other stuff I don't understand..
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 07:43 PM

I believe that the teleological possibilities of DNA are unknown.
The whims and wishes of turning genes on or off for an abundance of talent and ability is not in the cards at this time however.

btw I always suspected that engineering organic navigators of the smallest possible mass to survive incidental g forces would be a good idea for a galactic traveling species.


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Subject: RE: BS: DNA and other stuff I don't understand..
From: Joe_F
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 07:57 PM

Worst of all, a virus that attacks one race.


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Subject: RE: BS: DNA and other stuff I don't understand..
From: robomatic
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 09:39 PM

Depends on whether there IS such a thing as race (genetically speaking).


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Subject: RE: BS: DNA and other stuff I don't understand..
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Apr 18 - 06:36 AM

Interesting and useful article, bobad. Thanks.


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Subject: RE: BS: DNA and other stuff I don't understand..
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 09 Apr 18 - 07:43 AM

Worst of all, a virus that attacks one race.

Depends on whether there IS such a thing as race (genetically speaking).


There are definitely 'racial characteristics' such as skin tone which appear to be hereditary, and so are presumably encoded in DNA. This should make it possible to target one 'race'.


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Subject: RE: BS: DNA and other stuff I don't understand..
From: Senoufou
Date: 09 Apr 18 - 09:04 AM

I believe race is genetic, if by race one means (as Nigel says above) skin colour, facial structure, hair type etc. But the genetics of race can also mean being more prone to various diseases.

Africans for example are more prone to high blood pressure, prostate cancer, sarcoidosis scars, sickle cell anaemia and diabetes, among other things. They also have more likelihood of keloid scarring after wounds or operations. It would be brilliant if genetic intervention could prevent these conditions arising.

I think I may have seen in the news recently that scientists are able to use DNA on which to record data, rather like a computer chip but with infinitely more capacity. We could end up being walking data banks!


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Subject: RE: BS: DNA and other stuff I don't understand..
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Apr 18 - 02:41 PM

Billions of years of 'learned alternatives' for survival encoded in a human genome were first thought of, and called, junk DNA. Today we know better but are in the dark as to what it can do.

If that sounds complex the steps and instructions to assemble different proteins are virtually impossible to fathom.


David Letterman gestured to eat a chip coded with DNA that had a huge library stored on it. The scientist respondsible panicked and grabbed David.


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Subject: RE: BS: DNA and other stuff I don't understand..
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Apr 18 - 07:35 PM

Race is a valid enough concept in biology but we use the word fluidly when we're talking about humanity. We can call Irish jokes that depict the Irish as stupid as racist, for example, and I'd never argue with that use of the term, even though it doesn't chime at all with the strictly biological context. Suppose Pangea or Gondwanaland, or any other all-encompassing land-lump, still existed. We'd all intermix more freely and we might not be talking about race in the way we do now. We are all fully inter-fertile, after all. Geographical separation is a big deal. Considering all the trouble in this world that we all have with "the other," if there really is a God we should be asking him why he screwed up by allowing plate tectonics to cause so much bother.


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Subject: RE: BS: DNA and other stuff I don't understand..
From: Jos
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 03:52 AM

Hostility between different groups of people doesn't exist only between different continents or land masses. People are just as (or even more) likely to fight others living nearby.


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Subject: RE: BS: DNA and other stuff I don't understand..
From: Senoufou
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 04:11 AM

I remember being taken into the Genetics department at Edinburgh Uni by my mates and shown some machines which I think were called DNA Sequencers. Apparently, they analysed various DNAs using just four letters A, G, C and T. (My memory isn't THAT good, I've just googled those!) It all came out on very very long rolls of paper (old-fashioned nowadays I expect) with just these letters in never-ending sequences.
I was quite privileged, because I reckon this was in the early days of
modern Genetics. They hadn't started to 'do' the Human Genome yet.

I had a boyfriend in Molecular Biology and took on another from Genetics, later on yet another from Virology. (Very innocent in those days, nothing too naughty!) I had quite scientific tastes in blokes, in spite of being in the Faculty of Arts.


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Subject: RE: BS: DNA and other stuff I don't understand..
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 04:28 AM

That's very true of course, Jos. But, as George Orwell illustrated and as Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Reagan and both Bushes admirably demonstrated, among others such as Thatcher and Blair, having remote enemies on distant continents that you can demonise with little fear of being rumbled by proximity aiding familiarity can come in very handy.


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Subject: RE: BS: DNA and other stuff I don't understand..
From: Mrrzy
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 09:27 AM

The harder part is that very little that is "genetic" is actually coded for by a single gene that can be altered. It is "genetic" to have blue eyes or dark skin, but there is no single gene for blue eyes nor dark skin.


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Subject: RE: BS: DNA and other stuff I don't understand..
From: Mr Red
Date: 13 Apr 18 - 02:50 AM

Having blue eyes does not necessarily mean your progeny will have blue eyes. There is a thing they call a recessive gene (more like a permutation thereof). And I have observed something like in a family.

All I know it that adrenaline is brown and runs in your jeans...........




I'll get my coat - to cover the evidence


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Subject: RE: BS: DNA and other stuff I don't understand..
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Apr 18 - 04:05 AM

You need two recessive genes for them to be expressed, eg for blue eyes.
A brown eyed person may have one gene for blue eyes and be a carrier.
Two such people have a 1 in 4 chance of giving each child two recessive genes, 1 in 4 of two dominant genes, and 1 in 2 of them getting one of each ie being brown eyed carriers of the blue eye gene.


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Subject: RE: BS: DNA and other stuff I don't understand..
From: Senoufou
Date: 13 Apr 18 - 05:15 AM

Hahahahahahaaaaa Mr Red!!! Your jokes always make my day! hee hee


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Subject: RE: BS: DNA and other stuff I don't understand..
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Apr 18 - 07:18 AM

We've been here before with the genetics of eye colour. It is incorrect to describe it as single-gene/dominant-recessive. It isn't like that. Eye colour inheritance is polygenic. It would help if scientific pronouncements here were preceded by the checking of facts.


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Subject: RE: BS: DNA and other stuff I don't understand..
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Apr 18 - 07:47 AM

This is where these discussions are so useful. You always get things checked and, if necessary, corrected. Beats Google any day :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: DNA and other stuff I don't understand..
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Apr 18 - 10:12 AM

That is how it is on the GCSE syllabus Steve.
Like many such things it is a simplification.

It would mean that blue eyed parents can not have a brown eyed child. They had to be taught that, but I was always careful to say it was more complicated and exceptions were possible.
I did not want to cause anyone family problems.


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Subject: RE: BS: DNA and other stuff I don't understand..
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Apr 18 - 10:31 AM

Don't worry Keith, genetics assures everyone is a controlled accident.
Now we are in an age in which we can make changes in deliberate non accidental ways, which may become the biggest accident of all.

CRISPR is the means for us to really stir things up.


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Subject: RE: BS: DNA and other stuff I don't understand..
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Apr 18 - 10:47 AM

That reminds me of the time I was sitting in the prep room behind a science lab when I heard the teacher telling his GCSE class that chlorophyll was a protein. When I saw him later and politely put him right he told me that it had been appropriate to tell the kids what he described as a "half-truth" for the sake of convenience. Well it wasn't a half-truth at all. It was an untruth, in just the same way as explaining away eye colour genetics as single-gene inheritance is an untruth. Now that's the way it is and that's the way this little nugget of discussion should end, but I have a prediction to make...


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Subject: RE: BS: DNA and other stuff I don't understand..
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Apr 18 - 10:52 AM

BBC - GCSE Bitesize: Alleles
www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesize/science/add_aqa_pre_2011/cell...

The gene for eye colour has an allele for blue eye colour and an allele for brown eye colour. Alleles are dominant or recessive: For example, the allele for brown eyes is dominant, while the allele for blue eyes is recessive. An individual who inherits one or two alleles for brown eyes will have brown eyes.
Alleles · Genetic Diagrams · Cystic Fibrosis · BBC Schools · BBC Science and Nature


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Subject: RE: BS: DNA and other stuff I don't understand..
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Apr 18 - 11:00 AM

OK Steve? It is in the GCSE syllabus which you were supposed to be teaching to your poor students.
Let's hope they ignored you and looked at the textbooks and/or the BBC GCSE revision material I just posted.


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Subject: RE: BS: DNA and other stuff I don't understand..
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Apr 18 - 11:32 AM

All things are checkable. And, chaps and chapesses, I told you so... :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: DNA and other stuff I don't understand..
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Apr 18 - 11:50 AM

chapesses is sexist.

Evolution is one solution
but CRISPR is quicker

Ogdon Nashuel


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Subject: RE: BS: DNA and other stuff I don't understand..
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Apr 18 - 12:10 PM

Steve,
Let's hope your poor pupils ignored you and looked at the textbooks and/or the BBC GCSE revision material instead.


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