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BS: slouching towards disunion (US)

keberoxu 09 Apr 18 - 11:26 AM
Vashta Nerada 09 Apr 18 - 12:49 PM
keberoxu 09 Apr 18 - 06:42 PM
meself 09 Apr 18 - 07:10 PM
Donuel 10 Apr 18 - 05:56 AM
Donuel 10 Apr 18 - 06:00 AM
keberoxu 10 Apr 18 - 01:03 PM
Donuel 10 Apr 18 - 04:33 PM
Donuel 10 Apr 18 - 04:58 PM
Donuel 10 Apr 18 - 05:16 PM
Bat Goddess 10 Apr 18 - 07:18 PM
Stilly River Sage 11 Apr 18 - 10:38 AM
Donuel 13 Apr 18 - 10:51 AM

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Subject: things fall apart
From: keberoxu
Date: 09 Apr 18 - 11:26 AM

Things fall apart.
The center will not hold.

Hope my inner vision is mistaken,
but in my mind's eye,
I see a horizon obscured by enough thick black smoke
to fill the daytime sky.
Like -- another -- explosion.

How disunion comes to pass, anybody's call.
That disunion comes to pass, this Mudcat member can no longer deny.

The conflicting forces pulling and pushing every which way
have as much force and tension in play as I care to imagine,
why speculate on "when things get worse"?

US society will survive in some form,
many groups of people will survive in some form;
but this practice of one central power holding everything together,
seems to me it can only come apart, not together.

Different group of citizens in different regions
will influence what hangs together and what falls apart.
Compromise, negotiation, working things out together --
no end to that;
only the limits and the boundaries will have to be re-drawn.


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Subject: RE: BS: slouching towards disunion (US)
From: Vashta Nerada
Date: 09 Apr 18 - 12:49 PM

I'm reading Sarah Vowell's The Wordy Shipmates right now. NPR ran an excerpt of the 2008 book. It's an interesting look at modern politics and some of the Puritan origins of U.S. attitudes, and Reagan has a lot to answer for. As does Trump, and ten years later one can't help but read that book and see how the actor-turned-politician went for charismatic words (look in particular for Mario Cuomo's response to Reagan) but ignoble acts. Trump is just all-around ignoble.

Maybe if we get back to a presidential president, we can start to fix things; and after seeing what wasn't etched in stone that Trump was able to break, fix it in a more durable fashion.

/Pollyanna off/


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Subject: RE: BS: slouching towards disunion (US)
From: keberoxu
Date: 09 Apr 18 - 06:42 PM

It is over twenty years since my government class at UT-Austin with professor David F. Prindle.
However there is a thing or two from the class
that remains clear in my memory from that day to this.

Regarding heads of government and heads of state.
Professor Prindle asked us to recall that many prosperous and advanced nations
in fact have one of each. In different iterations:
A prime minister and a constitutional monarch, or
A prime minister and a president.
One is head of government, and the other is head of state;
and the two are both in the public eye and both represent their nation, although not in exactly the same way.

Then, Professor Prindle noted, there is the United States
whose head of state is also the head of government --
and then Prindle shrewdly tossed THIS in:
"The only other countries that do this, have dictators in power,
-- BUTTHATDOESN'TMEANANYTHING!!" and swiftly changed the subject.
So the lecture continued to a silent filled-to-capacity lecture hall,
and I sat there -- silent and motionless --
with flashing red stoplights in my mind's eye.

How does my guesswork about the future
factor in this contribution from my UT-Austin professor?

I wonder if it might be possible for the electorate of the present USA
to be inclined toward either one of two things:
the present-day Chief Executive who is
both head of government and head of state,
with the centralized power that goes with it;

or, the model cited previously in this post and practiced outside the US,
in which there is one person as head of government
and another as head of state.
And here in North America, that would call for some changes.

Instead of the whole lower forty-eight, not to mention the other states and territories,
going all one way or the other,
could it be imagined that
our section of North America might be more than one nation with more than one government?

And, using the above contrasting pair:
one part of the former US would have one Chief Executive as before,
while
another part would have one head of state while
a different person would be the head of government,
which would result from a significant change of doing things.


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Subject: RE: BS: slouching towards disunion (US)
From: meself
Date: 09 Apr 18 - 07:10 PM

"here in North America, that would call for some changes."

Well - only in YOUR part of North America ... !


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Subject: RE: BS: slouching towards disunion (US)
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 05:56 AM

We are all shipmates on this voyage.
Passengers, boiler room boys and crew
The captain and officers are few
The doctor and cook check for spoilage
But no one checks the skip.
Our fate is the same as our first mate
who gives no scrutiny to mutiny.
Who will save our ship


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Subject: RE: BS: slouching towards disunion (US)
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 06:00 AM

?


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Subject: RE: BS: slouching towards disunion (US)
From: keberoxu
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 01:03 PM

No one checks the "skip"
or
no one checks the ship ?


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Subject: RE: BS: slouching towards disunion (US)
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 04:33 PM

that's right, ship also
rhymes nicely with ship
Today is rhyme day
with a sack of shit.


If you search a rhyme with ship
you won't find a single shit:

bip, blip, chip, chipp, clip, crip, cslip, dip, drip, flip, flipp, fripp, gipp, grip, gripp, grippe, gyp, hip, hipp, hippe, ip, kip, kipp, klipp, klippe, knipp, lip, lipp, lippe, nip, nipp, nsfip, pip, pipp, q-ship, quip, quipp, rip, ripp, rippe, schip, scrip, scripp, ship, shipp, shqip, sip, sipp, sippe, skip, skipp, skrip, slip, slipp, snip, stipp, strip, thrip, tip, tipp, trip, tripp, trippe, vchip, whip, whipp, yip, zip, zipp
airship, airstrip, alcippe, bean dip, bluechip, blue chip, cheese dip, clam dip, cleft lip, corn chip, courtship, cow chip, cruise ship, dress ship, equip, film clip, flagship, flight strip, gem clip, guard ship, guilt trip, gunship, headship, judgeship, kinship, lightship, manship, menippe, outstrip, pink slip, pkunzip, prune whip, q-tip, reship, roach clip, roundtrip, round trip, school ship, sheep dip, slave ship, small ship, spaceship, starship, steamship, tank ship, tide rip, tie clip, unclip, unhip, unship, unzip, warship, wear ship, wing tip, winship, woodchip
aeroquip, authorship, bacon strip, battleship, blankenship, blood kinship, brinkmanship, brinksmanship, buggy whip, bulldog clip, calmaquip, cargo ship, cartoon strip, cartridge clip, censorship, chairmanship, clipper ship, combat ship, comic strip, consulship, craftsmanship, dealership, draftsmanship, ego trip, fellowship, filter tip, fingertip, fire ship, gamesmanship, gaza strip, internship, landing strip, leadership, leather strip, mccalip, membership, merchant ship, microchip, micro chip, mothership, new york strip, ocean trip, ownership, partnership, party whip, patrol ship, picket ship, pillow slip, pirate ship, pistol grip, pleasure trip, poker chip, premiership, readership, ridership, sailing ship, salesmanship, scholarship, scouting trip, showmanship, sister ship, skinny dip, speakership, sponsorship, sportsmanship, statesmanship, stewardship, supply ship, surface ship, taxi strip, training ship, transport ship, treasure ship, trusteeship, unkingship, upmanship, vanderlip, viewership, weather ship, weather strip, whaling ship, workmanship
abandoned ship, angle of dip, apprenticeship, bargaining chip, barrier strip, buffalo chip, capital ship, championship, citizenship, companionship, container ship, dictatorship, directorship, editorship, factory ship, generalship, good fellowship, governorship, homeownership, hospital ship, liberty ship, magnetic dip, memory chip, one-up-manship, one-upmanship, partisanship, passenger ship, potato chip, professorship, receivership, relationship, silicon chip, smart as a whip, tortilla chip
academicianship, alligator clip, ambassadorship, bipartisanship, civil censorship, conservatorship, distributorship, field press censorship, pocket battleship, proprietorship, saratoga chip
armed forces censorship, business relationship, employee ownership, friendly relationship, human relationship, internuncioship, national censorship, primary censorship
family relationship, military censorship, personal relationship, secondary censorship, sexual relationship
prisoner of war censorship

See they did not give a single shit.

Nor does castle officially rhyme with ass hole
I should use an Anglo Saxon dictionary but its a hassle.


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Subject: RE: BS: slouching towards disunion (US)
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 04:58 PM

Tears and fears from screaming ash
WWIII has come to pass
It was Truman who first used this junk
Now its his ship that is first sunk
What happens next will go untold
All we know is that it could unfold


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Subject: RE: BS: slouching towards disunion (US)
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 05:16 PM

Back on topic, The Civil war did not resolve the issues of race and slavery. If it had we would not have these two disparate views of America today.


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Subject: RE: BS: slouching towards disunion (US)
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 07:18 PM

Vashta, you're the second person in the past five days to recommend this book by Sarah Vowell. Guess I'd better put it on the "To Read" list.

Another incredibly good book on the subject is Colin Woodard's "American Nations" -- American Nations

It goes even further than "Albion's Seed" by David Hackett Fischer who only broke the U.S. down into four groups as opposed to Woodard's eleven.

U.S. history is, in general, very poorly taught at the elementary or high school level. (Mudcat's Curmudgeon, my late husband Tom Hall, was an exceptional teacher of high school U.S. History & Government. He showed "All the President's Men" to his classes every year.) One of the reasons it's poorly taught is lack of time, general "dumbing down", and fear of offending someone (especially in the big textbook-producing state of Texas). Kids are never taught that most of our Founding Fathers had radically conflicting beliefs and in many cases hated each other. "American Nations" does an exceptional job of explaining these differences.

Linn


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Subject: RE: BS: slouching towards disunion (US)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Apr 18 - 10:38 AM

Too bad most of the nation won't pick up a good book and read it.


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Subject: RE: BS: slouching towards disunion (US)
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Apr 18 - 10:51 AM

Instead they will watch Incredibles 2 for the wit and not even know it was Sarah Vowell.


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Mudcat time: 3 July 8:52 AM EDT

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