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BS: Hit On Syria
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Jim Carroll Date: 19 Apr 18 - 10:14 AM "Yes, fling your shit then run away like the coward that you are. " You've had your chance to redeem your credentials - fell at this fence as well Your friend really has dropped all of you in it hasn't he? Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: punkfolkrocker Date: 19 Apr 18 - 09:13 AM correction - I posted unfinished draft - thought I'd copied the final one for safety before posting Changes make a difference to what I meant to say.. Last pargraph should be... "So finally.. I don't know what's really real or not just from watching BBC news reports, and so don't think most ordinary folks should make arrogant dogmatic pronouncments based on such uncertainty... The only reasonable position should be healthy scepticism in public discourse, even if we have made our own minds up based on informed judgement and opinion / prejudice in private...??? Respect expert opinions, but do not automatically trust them entirely ..." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: bobad Date: 19 Apr 18 - 09:09 AM By the way, I have a good idea on who closed the thread and why. If you would like to know PM me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: bobad Date: 19 Apr 18 - 08:58 AM Can we move on please ? Yes, fling your shit then run away like the coward that you are. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: punkfolkrocker Date: 19 Apr 18 - 08:55 AM If anyone can make sense of what I wrote last night, please let me know enclosing a self addressed envelope for a free autographed collector's card...... I typed it quickly after waking up groggy and confused from falling asleep during a long drama documentary about Daniel Boone... Interestingly this documentary seemed almost as fictionalised as if had been a Hollywood action movie, compared to the wiki history for this man. I don't know why they bother making these productions. Either make an accurate documentary, or just give us a proper pop corn action movie. These expensively stage hybrid re-enactment drama-docs just over condense, simplify, and fictionalise far too much. I feel cheated. Which brings me on to the point of real time news reporting of current international conflicts and wars; and being able to trust what is depicted on screen and in print. How would World War 2 have progressed if 24/7 news channels and internet social media had existed back then. With every event being covered and commented on in fine detail in up to the minute real time.. with panels of journalists and experts arguing opinions on what is really happening and who is to blame... How much different might received history be now, how altered would classic heroic war movie accounts have to be...????? How much longer before viewers are invited to to phone in to select winners and losers, who gets killed in Syria and who survives onto the next round...???? Ok let's spin the wheel of death - odd numbers Asshat & Russia did it, even numbers it was staged by activists.. bonus number and we will implicate CIA / MI6... If we can't trust modern media and social networks... So finally.. I don't know what's real or not from watching BBC news reports, and so should not make arrogant dogmatic pronouncments based on such uncertainty... The only sane position should be scepticism in public discourse, even if I have made my mind up based on informed judgement and opinion / prejudice in private...??? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Jim Carroll Date: 19 Apr 18 - 08:53 AM " I might have added fascist cowards. " You might have indeed, and probably would have done had you been allowed to Your personal concern for The Jewish People and antisemitism was amply demonstrated by your refusal to condemn it when it raised its ugly head on this forum the fact that that particular nasty piece concerned the darkest period of Jewish history, when they were about to be sent to their deaths by the "fascists" you are happy to accuse others of being, makes your refusal to condemn as bad as it can possibly get Thanks to your, Bearded Bruce's and Keith's behaviour on this forum, between you you have managed to make a serious discussion of antisemitism a no-go area - which might suit your own agenda, but doesn't do much good for the Jewish People Can we move on please ? Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: bobad Date: 19 Apr 18 - 08:48 AM So, twelve days later and after the Russians brought in their troops (yes, those same troops that were "pulled out of Syria" in December)to scrub the area, inspectors from the OPCW are finally let in to inspect. We're on the edge of our seats waiting to see what they find. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: bobad Date: 19 Apr 18 - 08:39 AM I might have added fascist cowards. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Jim Carroll Date: 19 Apr 18 - 08:25 AM "The only people it might upset would be those who are afraid of being exposed " "Don't feed this troll The thread was a great example of why people should not post after the pubs throw out - but it did manage to draw out one bottom feeder Let's move on eh? Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 19 Apr 18 - 07:46 AM BBC Trending "Despite the uncertainty about what happened in Douma, a cluster of influential social media activists is certain that it knows what occurred on 7 April. They've seized on a theory being floated by Russian officials and state-owned media outlets that the attacks were "staged" or were a "false flag" operation, carried out by jihadist groups or spies in order to put the blame on the Assad government and provide a justification for Western intervention." The activists call themselves "anti-war", but as they generally back the Syrian government's military operations against rebel forces seeking to overthrow Mr Assad and Russian air strikes carried out in support, it might be more accurate to describe them as "anti-Western intervention" or "pro-Syrian government". http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-43745629 |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: bobad Date: 19 Apr 18 - 07:43 AM .....it was obviously just to upset people and provoke argument The only people it might upset would be those who are afraid of being exposed for what they are. It was a legitimate topic for discussion and the only people trolling it were those trying to have it closed. They are cowards. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Dave the Gnome Date: 19 Apr 18 - 07:20 AM I'm reminded of Carly Simon for some reason You're so vain, you probably think this song is about you... Not sure why that sprang to mind :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Jim Carroll Date: 19 Apr 18 - 06:58 AM "Got it recorded, Jim." Will wait till tonight's episode and probably open a thread about it We really should get back to talking about Keith!!!!!!! (nice to start the day with a smile, doncha think Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Steve Shaw Date: 19 Apr 18 - 05:27 AM Not so, Iains. Just a little diversion, that's all! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Iains Date: 19 Apr 18 - 04:55 AM seems the me me me generation has hijacked the thread. Must be time for it to be closed! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 19 Apr 18 - 04:43 AM I think I am the only person who has used "filthy liar." I used it in response to smears and lies told against me. If I have ever called anyone a liar without full justification, quote it and I will grovel. Anything to say on Syria, or is this thread just about me now? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Steve Shaw Date: 19 Apr 18 - 04:38 AM That is a valid point of view, pfr, but there are times when whole discussions are fatally poisoned, for example when someone decides to call people Jew-haters or antisemites or filthy liars (for example) and the urge to respond is indulged. It shouldn't happen and a policy of cutting people like that dead at all times will eventually frustrate them into stopping it. And I agree with what you say, Dave, but personally I'm fine with brazenly naming names too. The mods may occasionally need a nudge to actually look into these threads to see what's going on. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 19 Apr 18 - 04:14 AM On Tuesday, SANA (Syrian National Authority) falsely reported that the OPCW's fact-finding team, which arrived in Damascus on Saturday, entered Douma. They still have not. A UN Department of Safety and Security did enter but was fired on and there was an explosion. I guess the Assad regime is not confident the evidence has all been erased yet. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Dave the Gnome Date: 19 Apr 18 - 03:11 AM For those in any doubt at all here is the accepted definition of an internet troll - In Internet slang, a troll (/tro?l, tr?l/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting quarrels or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal, on-topic discussion,[3] often for the troll's amusement. (Wiki) I agree, Steve, but let's make it a rule to ignore all such trolls rather than just naming the worst culprits. The thread mentioned by Jim has now been, quite rightly, closed as it was obviously just to upset people and provoke argument. If we see any more with that express purpose may I suggest that we ask the mods to nip them in the bud. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: punkfolkrocker Date: 18 Apr 18 - 11:47 PM Steve - if I was to take all this seriously enough to worry about who or what was actually in control here and running BS... and for what ultimate purposes... I might just start going as bonkers as the top 3 wind up merchants... But as amusing a notion as it is, I'm sure mudcat isn't a front for space aliens or time travellers from the future conducting psychological warfare experiments.. .. well... fairly certain....??? I harbour no ill will to anyone, and thank a select few for their entertainment value. I make no secret that I need antagonists for mental stimulation, as I'd guess so do they... It's all a big kid's playground of fun and games.. For the few minutes every hour or so I look in here, I've got to have some fun.... Yeah.. peace here would be cool... But it's that old dilemna of.. well.. peace is a bit boring.. bring on the next war... But peace & civility utopia would still be best for most folks... btw.. I've just watched the most surprisingly weird good cop bad cop movie.. The bad cop killed the good cop after about 10 minutes then progressively became even worse cop to total demented cop over the remaining 80 minutes... I've lost my train of thought.. mudcat.. good cops..bad cops.. no I've forgotten where that was going...??? Everything becomes too complex at this time of night, I can't really work out what is going on here, or matters most... All I know is, standing my ground and fighting back when someone has an unfair go at me comes instinctively... Though, I'm a very friendly militant... g'night all... and extreme dreams... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Steve Shaw Date: 18 Apr 18 - 08:33 PM Got it recorded, Jim. If you're right about the intentions of the trolls, our best bet is to resist all other urges and totality sideline them. Jim, they are NOTHING without us! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Jim Carroll Date: 18 Apr 18 - 08:12 PM Have just watched the second episode of The STEPHEN LAWRENCE murder documentaries (nor viewing conducive with a good night's sleep but a timely reminder of the level of politics we are dealing with here Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Jim Carroll Date: 18 Apr 18 - 07:42 PM Can I just point out that Bobad and Bozo have just embarked on a thread with a statement completely devoid of discussable content - an obvious ploy to provoke other members of this forum It seems not just an attempt to provoke but one aimed at closing down the BS section of this forum altogether Evin if that is not their attention, which I doubt, if this level of posting continues it will be the inevitable conclusion Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Steve Shaw Date: 18 Apr 18 - 06:59 PM Generally speaking, the mods don't patrol these threads and I don't bloody blame them. pfr, you are a valiant fellow and quite likely the finest and most personable poster here, but I'm afraid that you are unintentionally feeding and indulging two, or three when Bruce wades in, of the worst trolls here and they just LOVE sparring with you. Raggytash, Dave and I decided a couple of weeks ago to cease engagement with Keith and just talk past him. He won't dictate what we discuss here but we don't directly address any of the stupid points and childish challenges he tries to make. Bobad is as bad if not worse and I'm making this a public appeal that we should simply not engage him. The moderators won't sack these two and one of them is bobad's bosom-buddy, so our best bet is to utterly ignore them from now on. They are no more than shallow wind-up merchants and extremely few people bar us suckers ever read their tripe, so let's not let any of it get to us. And get on board here, Jim. We can make this place work a lot better if we really try. Teribus and akenaton have gone. Bobad, Keith and Bruce have their admirers among the mods and will last forever (I can prove it!), which is why they feel that they are invulnerable even when they troll, but that doesn't mean we can let them carry on having the influence they simply don't deserve to have. Ignore, sweeten, onwards and upwards! :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: punkfolkrocker Date: 18 Apr 18 - 04:12 PM bob - so are you here right now to do anything else apart from argue with attempts from members to self regulate their behaviour, and ask others to take similar responsibility to do the same, for the benefit of mudcat community...??? A community mostly comprised of none combatants; some might describe as a silent majority absolutely sick of you, K****, Bruce, Jim, Steve, me.. and anyone else on a sliding scale of blame for fucking this place up...!!!??? I'd guess mods monitoring this thread, and previous similar recent threads, may be taking notes...????? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Dave the Gnome Date: 18 Apr 18 - 04:05 PM Troublesome PFR ain't, bobad. Interesting. Argumentative. Provocative. Barmy at times. But I doubt he ever got a thread closed. Unlike some. And even though I vehemently disagree with you on many things, I don't mean you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: bobad Date: 18 Apr 18 - 03:58 PM Which brings us onto the general point of folks entering a thread late.......... Lol......a thread which started out discussing the "Hit on Syria" and was turned into a thread bitching and moaning about other posters by a couple of old hens with nothing better to contribute and he has the nerve to carp about entering a thread late......smh. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: punkfolkrocker Date: 18 Apr 18 - 03:20 PM bob - already predicted and accounted for that response not too long ago today... only few posts up from this one... Which brings us onto the general point of folks entering a thread late, not bothering to properly read earlier posts, and presuming they already know enough to join in... Even worse are those who only read the last post, then start stirring up shit based on an entirely clueless grasp of what was being discussed, and who actually said what...??? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Jim Carroll Date: 18 Apr 18 - 03:02 PM "Then again some folks may see you as troublesome pfr," Proof of the pudding Bobad Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: bobad Date: 18 Apr 18 - 02:54 PM Then again some folks may see you as troublesome pfr, it all depends on one's perspective, doesn't it? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: punkfolkrocker Date: 18 Apr 18 - 02:46 PM ...and again... If troublesome folks still can't understand what they are doing and the problems they persist in causing, then they deserve to be ignored until they do make an effort to understand and interact better..... Friendship awaits those who respect it's value... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 18 Apr 18 - 02:38 PM btw... Anyone who resorts to calling anyone else here a "liar" I only call someone a liar in relation to a specified lie. Most recently Jim made a false statement about Farage. I first asked him to clarify, but he could not. He had just made it up. I invite Jim to recall me calling him a liar in the absence of a blatant lie from him. Dave, we all have the right to express our views and to challenge the views of others. The only problem with my posts appears to be that they challenge the preconceptions and prejudices of our dominant far-Left group. They appear unable to handle that and collectively pretend I am not here. Hooplah! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Dave the Gnome Date: 18 Apr 18 - 02:21 PM If only people would put up and shut up these threads would not go on for so long. My views? May was wrong to call the strikes without asking parliament Corbyn is the only one showing common sense and will be the next PM This forum should be about exchanging views, not scoring points There are some good people on here, some of which I have met There are some twats on here who I have no wish to meet Dead simple. My views. My opinions based on what I know or have deduced. Whoever disagrees has the right to say so. I have the right to ignore them. Seemples. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: David Carter (UK) Date: 18 Apr 18 - 01:29 PM Oh I do, bobad, I do. And they aren't people on here. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: punkfolkrocker Date: 18 Apr 18 - 12:59 PM Jim - Agreed.. I'm in danger of sounding like a neighbourhood watch vigilante, out with a baseball bat patrolling for yobbos.. It's a shame, year in - year out, we need to keep spelling the same obvious things out to the same disruptive bunch of brawlers... [apart from those now banned by mods...] ..and I do include myself to a lesser extent, before anyone accuses me of being a sanctimonious hypocrite...!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Jim Carroll Date: 18 Apr 18 - 12:42 PM Some of them do - obviously There are only a few here who persistently ignore requests to provide proof of what that are saying while at the same time claiming they have provided it (or denying what they have said) Perhaps rather than referring to these things it might be more helpful to specify who and what you mean Let' face it, if Keith accused people of telling lies to their faces as often as he does here, protected by the safety of distance of anonymity and distance he's go home with his teeth in his top pocket most nights of the week It becomes an act of graven cowardice eventually This thread is rapidly heading down the same hole as did last night's curry Let's move on Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Iains Date: 18 Apr 18 - 12:27 PM Perhaps those that have a penchant for wild allegations need to either substantiate their statements or use more restrained language. They know who they are! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: punkfolkrocker Date: 18 Apr 18 - 11:58 AM bob - btw.. in answer to your question last night - I do the cooking.. But soon after eating I fell asleep for the rest of the evening.. so didn't come back here until this morning... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: punkfolkrocker Date: 18 Apr 18 - 11:52 AM Nobody in their right might respects proven or suspected liars in this or any other community, Neither should we have to tolerate petty childish disruptive squabblers... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: bobad Date: 18 Apr 18 - 11:47 AM btw... Anyone who resorts to calling anyone else here a "liar" needs to be refrain from such arseholery and behave with more maturity.. You would do better to target those who lie in the first place. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: punkfolkrocker Date: 18 Apr 18 - 11:46 AM If troublesome folks still can't understand what they are doing and the problems they persist in causing, then they deserve to be ignored until they do make an effort to understand and interact better..... Friendship awaits those who respect it's value... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: punkfolkrocker Date: 18 Apr 18 - 11:41 AM btw... Anyone who resorts to calling anyone else here a "liar" needs to be refrain from such arseholery and behave with more maturity.. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 18 Apr 18 - 11:40 AM The people I was responding to made the provocative statements, not me. I really do not understand what you object to in my posts. Identify the fault please. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: punkfolkrocker Date: 18 Apr 18 - 11:32 AM same goes for whining wankers... "it's not my fault.. he started it...".. what's the average age here...?????????? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: punkfolkrocker Date: 18 Apr 18 - 11:27 AM Bruce - I don't want to hear self indulgent pompous arseholes persistently provoking petty playground fights, while the rest of us are trying to enjoy and learn from good natured matey debates... That is a crime around here, is it...!!!??? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: beardedbruce Date: 18 Apr 18 - 11:21 AM You are stating something that PFR does not want to hear. Isn't that a High Crime? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 18 Apr 18 - 11:13 AM PFR, so it is OK for Jim to whine about being called liar, but not for me to point out that it's because he lies. It is OK for Dave to complain May makes "dictatorial decision while being the head of a minority government" but not to point out that Parliament overwhelmingly supported her. I really do not understand what you object to in my posts. Identify the fault please. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: punkfolkrocker Date: 18 Apr 18 - 10:47 AM between... From: David Carter (UK) - PM Date: 18 Apr 18 - 10:35 AM and now.. is a post, that although not amongst the worst, clearly demonstrates problems here... Personally, I try to think more self critically before posting... If anyone thinks my posts are shite or problematic, they should see the reject pile that after due consideration, never get posted... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 18 Apr 18 - 10:38 AM Jim, I challenge and defy you to say when I called you liar except in response to a clearly identified lie from you. Dave, The pathetic gesture of suggesting that a democratic government should vote on what is best for the country? Surely May is being far more hypocritical by forcing through a dictatorial decision while being the head of a minority government? Yesterday Parliament overwhelmingly supported May's handling of the situation, and Corbyn's challenge melted away. Parliament then discussed Labour Party anti-Semitism with many Labour MPs attacking Corbyn over his inaction, and with Tom Watson leaving his place at Corbyn's side to sit with those Labour MPs. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: David Carter (UK) Date: 18 Apr 18 - 10:35 AM To be fair to Keith, I have enjoyed discussions with him on Physics and Astronomy. Usually we agree on these subjects, and disagree with others who have a less mainstream perspective. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Dave the Gnome Date: 18 Apr 18 - 09:15 AM In discussions, people skills are very important. I think that the allies were right because... Is fine. As is I think they were wrong and a better solution may be... However Liberals are a bunch of twats You are all right wing warmongers You don't know what you are talking about or You made that up Are examples of what not to do. We are never going to convince each other of anything in here nor, if we did, would it make a great global difference. Once you have put up your views, leave it at that. People may agree or disagree but they are your views and you think they are right. Whether they are or not! Just my 2p. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: punkfolkrocker Date: 18 Apr 18 - 09:06 AM bob - well come on-board then.... become part of a solution instead... "I hate to inform you but those things you disparage in others are exactly what others see in you that you are totally oblivious of" Maybe a big difference is - I am NOT oblivious.. I have acute self awareness, and empathy for others... I'd suggest so also do DtG, and others I could name who you just disrespect and fight with as your habitual foes... I'd further suggest, that you pull back from your stance of condescension, and maybe try yourself to be a little friendlier in your interactions here... ...all it takes is first little steps away from hostility... it really is as simple as that... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Jim Carroll Date: 18 Apr 18 - 08:54 AM "Jim - we're all fed up with... I'm not just having a dig at you..." PFR "bloody minded cantankerous.." I post on subjects I feel strongly about - I don't thing I am any more bloody minded and cantankerous than anybody else when subjects are debated reasonably - I react badly when with much of the name-calling that happens gets out of hand - "liar", "Jew-hater" "antisemite" tends to infuriate me - they have become common from some people Keith has become little more than an obsessive troll who stonewalls, ignores what people write and uses the miseries of the world to score political points - Muslims, Travellers, the Irish, raped and persecuted women... all have become weapons in his political crusade against anything further to the left than Attila the Hen (Thatcher) I don't believe I am alone in believing this, in fact, others have said the same constantly I have to say that while I don't agree with Iains on many things, I find arguing with him without his constant flow of abuse a challenging pleasure Yes- I do fly off the handle now and then, but nobody can accuse me of not providing substance to my argument If we can't argue with passion then I'd rather not be here - it's the lack of response to what I and others say and the blatant, insulting dishonesty that gets up my nose I'll think hard about what you say and hope you do the same Can we leave it there please? Jim |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: bobad Date: 18 Apr 18 - 08:52 AM You guys have become a bunch of old biddies, flocking together and clucking your tongues about everyone else and failing to see yourselves as others see you. I hate to inform you but those things you disparage in others are exactly what others see in you that you are totally oblivious of. Stick to the topic and stop destroying threads by making them about other posters. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: punkfolkrocker Date: 18 Apr 18 - 07:25 AM Jim - we're all fed up with... I'm not just having a dig at you... You're one of the blokes I most respect at mudcat, even though you can be bloody minded cantankerous.. Sometimes BS threads are like being in a room full of teenagers who have just jumped onto their first political issue bandwagon... ..all the hormonal fired up passionate intolerance and disrespect that age group has no mature control of...!!!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Jim Carroll Date: 18 Apr 18 - 07:11 AM Some of us have reached our limits PFR None of us are saints but we've all had our patience strained Just count the number of "liars" on the last few threads I'd take a long spoon if you're indenting to dine at that particular curry-house Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: punkfolkrocker Date: 18 Apr 18 - 07:06 AM Jim - not only you, also a handful of other habitual forum fighters .. please take in what Kenny has just said... and we might begin to improve the rancid state of BS 'debates'... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Jim Carroll Date: 18 Apr 18 - 06:42 AM "When somebody you don't like says something you actually agree with why cant you just agree instead of being nasty? " I mentioned no names in my message which cited the hypocrisy fo all this - Keith came up with a perfect example of that hypocrisy - can I be said to "agree with that? For me, the problems is the proliferation of any kind of weapons because they are now an established part of the Western economy Singling out chemical weapons and accepting the rest exacerbates the problem by pretending we are doing something about it The quotes I gave are perfect examples of the stance some people have always taken on these questions If we don't take a holistic approach people will continue to die in their thousands - for profit Some of us have reached the point with Keith that id he was to say white is white we'd feel the need to check why he said it You may put any "nastiness" down to years of battle-fatigue Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Kenny B (inactive) Date: 18 Apr 18 - 06:10 AM Jim When somebody you don't like says something you actually agree with why cant you just agree instead of being nasty? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Jim Carroll Date: 18 Apr 18 - 05:52 AM I knew it wouldn't be too long for my prediction to be confirmed - who said idiots don't have their uses? Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 18 Apr 18 - 05:19 AM The world agreed to ban the unique horror of chemical weapons. That was an achievement worth preserving. Because we can not remove all the evils of conflict is no reason to not remove any. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Jim Carroll Date: 18 Apr 18 - 04:39 AM A lot of this seems to be missing the point I have always had a horror of Chemical weapons - as a small child, when I was taken to visit my grandparents I was frightened by the old man (my step-grandfather) who sat in the corner staring down at the floor in an attempt to hide the still horrific scars of gas burns he had received in the trenches when he was little more than a boy Having said that, there seems a breathtaking hypocrisy of politicians like Mayfly who send planes to bomb Syria because of their use of chemicals, yet happily sell fighter planes to Saudi Arabia who will use them to slaughter famine-starving Yemeni civilians Of course - all those who gallantly defend the "decent democratic nations" who allow this to happen, either openly support the selling of "conventional" (whatever that means) weapons to killer states or stay silent when the matter is raised Creating a league of "permissible" and "forbidden" weapons that are being used on civilians seems to me as grotesque as it gets - almost as grotesque as condemning the Homs massacres yet, on the same thread suggesting "if only we could sell Assad riot-control equipment - all states have the right to defend themselves" - the choice between dying by Assad's sniper bullets or being tortured to death in one of his torture chambers (British equipment such as hand electrical generators (Meggers) were sold to him as well) Our governments have helped create these wars with their active support for their perpetrators and by our indifference at what they do - and our Governments have facilitated their monstrous behavior with their arms sales - in our name Protesting about chemical weapons is little more than fine-tuning - the difference between assisting slaughter by a stiletto or being battered to death with a club-hammer Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 18 Apr 18 - 04:05 AM Steve, people who either denied or defended the use of white phosphorus in Gaza against innocent civilians in Cast Lead by the IDF.. No-one denied it. It was used in daylight and filmed for all to see. But only smoke bombs. Not weapons. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Dave the Gnome Date: 18 Apr 18 - 02:54 AM 1. The best threads are the ones in which you think that everyone else is a complete twat except for you...but you have doubts... 2. The best threads are the ones in which you think that everyone else is a complete twat except for you One misquote produced. You're welcome. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Kenny B (inactive) Date: 17 Apr 18 - 03:57 PM New conspiracy theory made up by me .... why not? White helmets ( AKA rentamob, private army doing good deeds like Crusaders in their spare time), financed by? plant some uninspiring gear and pay peanuts to kids to be filmed. to cause international consternation regarding poison gas to which POTUS retaliates and convinces his allies? to blow up a couple of sheds to convince his gullible converts to vote for a Trump led Republican party at the upcoming elections. Seen it before .... I was war correspondent for the Beano |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Iains Date: 17 Apr 18 - 03:51 PM It has happened much closer to home as well. https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/how-government-secretly-used-you-6032855 |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Steve Shaw Date: 17 Apr 18 - 03:33 PM "The purpose of the attack was to degrade and destroy Assad's chemical weapons infrastructure. Chemical weapons which are illegal, immoral and inhumane. He has used these chemical weapons on numerous occasions against his own population. It was also to send a clear message to other tyrants who might opt to do the same that if they do there will be a price to pay. The free and democratic nations of the world support the action as do the citizens of Syria who fear they could be the next victims." Isn't it amazing how we are now getting this mealy-mouthed, sanctimonious stuff about the ALLEGED use of chemical weapons last week from people who either denied or defended the use of white phosphorus in Gaza against innocent civilians in Cast Lead by the IDF... And not a word about those dozens of fighter jets we are selling to Saudi while they are bombing Yemeni civilians back to the stone age...and beheading hundreds of people a year in public squares... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Big Al Whittle Date: 17 Apr 18 - 03:24 PM i think it very unlikely that you fire guns and missiles without killing people. it reminds me of the IRA dickheads who said the Manchester bomb didn't kill people. Of course it killed people. People who got heart attacks from the shock. People traumatised by seeing their possessions disappear. Use your imagination. Bombs kill people. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: bobad Date: 17 Apr 18 - 03:08 PM Here's a bit of good news from the world of warfare from CNBC: North and South Korea reportedly set to announce official end to war *Ahead of a summit next week between North Korean premier Kim Jong Un and South Korean President Moon Jae-In, lawmakers from the neighboring states were thought to be negotiating the details of a joint statement that could outline an end to the military conflict between the two countries. *Pyongyang and Seoul have technically been at war since the 1950-1953 Korean conflict ended with a truce — and not a peace treaty. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: bobad Date: 17 Apr 18 - 03:01 PM Same with us here - humble working class. Interesting combination of vittles on your table, who does the cooking? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: punkfolkrocker Date: 17 Apr 18 - 02:52 PM chicken and bacon, chips, peas, and curry sauce... proper tuesday night grub.. Me and the wife originate from humble working class homes... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: bobad Date: 17 Apr 18 - 02:38 PM until dinner is ready... What's on the menu for dinner tonight? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: punkfolkrocker Date: 17 Apr 18 - 02:18 PM bob - believe what you like.. but don'y compliment/fool yourself you are getting to me.. If I appear a bit tetchy it's all down to phone calls today to my mum's over bureaucratic housing office, who have been panicked into tightening up data protection, and lost important details off her records in the process...!!! "idiotic false statements" that'd be more commonly known by most well balanced people as a joke....!!!!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 17 Apr 18 - 01:50 PM Jim, but some here called him a liar when he reported the Sabra Shatila massacre If that is not another of your lies, quote them Jim. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: bobad Date: 17 Apr 18 - 01:48 PM You are desperately searching for any petty thing to carry on arguing about right now.. aint you... Nope, I'm just not letting you get away with making idiotic false statements. Glad to see it's getting to you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Jim Carroll Date: 17 Apr 18 - 01:17 PM "Courageous journalists who will not meekly bow to the agenda of the government of the day." Agree absolutely, but some here called him a liar when he reported the Sabra Shatila massacre Who is a girl to believe in this wicked, wicked world!! As far as I can judge, Fisk reports the doubts of one scientist as any decent, open minded reporter should Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: punkfolkrocker Date: 17 Apr 18 - 01:08 PM "Is this a fantasy of yours? Have you heard of anyone saying they want to "bomb Asshat to oblivion"? I have read that as far as intentions go just the opposite has been stated." bob - yeah right... "This is not about regime change, but we are bombing them for humanitarian reasons"... You misread sardonic humour for 'fantasy'... You are desperately searching for any petty thing to carry on arguing about right now.. aint you... Well I'm bored and daft enough to oblige you until dinner is ready... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: David Carter (UK) Date: 17 Apr 18 - 01:02 PM Fisk is always worth reading, as is Pilger. Courageous journalists who will not meekly bow to the agenda of the government of the day. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: bobad Date: 17 Apr 18 - 12:55 PM If the Russians hold back and let 'us' bomb Asshat to oblivion Is this a fantasy of yours? Have you heard of anyone saying they want to "bomb Asshat to oblivion"? I have read that as far as intentions go just the opposite has been stated. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: punkfolkrocker Date: 17 Apr 18 - 12:01 PM ok.. compromise.. If the Russians hold back and let 'us' bomb Asshat to oblivion and replace him with another useful rent-a-puppet, then let them keep their holiday resort on the Med... Application invited to divvy up the reconstruction contracts... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Iains Date: 17 Apr 18 - 11:48 AM Hard to determine the truth down the rabbit hole. https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/syria-chemical-attack-gas-douma-robert-fisk-ghouta-damascus-a8307726.html Interesting take on the white helmets at the end. Educational, in fact |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: bobad Date: 17 Apr 18 - 11:43 AM but hand on heart - do you want religious extremists running Syria, or a more secular leader There is no connection with hitting Assad's chemical weapons capabilities and him remaining in power unless, of course, you believe that retaining power is a legitimate reason to use chemical weapons. Religious extremists / secular extremists I don't see much distinction there and neither would their victims I believe. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 17 Apr 18 - 11:10 AM PFR, no natural resources to speak of. Russia wants a foothold on the Eastern Med. and Iran wants a land bridge to the border of Israel. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: punkfolkrocker Date: 17 Apr 18 - 11:07 AM Remind us what natural resources Syria has to offer as spoils of conflict... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 17 Apr 18 - 11:07 AM Dave, You are getting as devious as your mate with your carefully crafted misquotes. Whoever you mean, please actually produce one. Al, . Surely no one is glad that we have dropped bombs and almost certainly killed people, in a conflict about god knows what. Some do think it was the right thing to do as the lesser of evils, but no-one was killed and it was not done as part of that terrible conflict. Just to uphold the ban on the use of poison gas. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Big Al Whittle Date: 17 Apr 18 - 11:04 AM but hand on heart - do you want religious extremists running Syria, or a more secular leader? Rather like Saddam Hussein - a nice guy won't cut it as a leader in these countries. If you think some Jeremy Corbyn type good guy is going to step into the breach ....well, we'll see. But I think its another case of dropping bombs and not giving a shit about the consequences. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: bobad Date: 17 Apr 18 - 10:58 AM My last post was directed at Al. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: bobad Date: 17 Apr 18 - 10:56 AM The purpose of the attack was to degrade and destroy Assad's chemical weapons infrastructure. Chemical weapons which are illegal, immoral and inhumane. He has used these chemical weapons on numerous occasions against his own population. It was also to send a clear message to other tyrants who might opt to do the same that if they do there will be a price to pay. The free and democratic nations of the world support the action as do the citizens of Syria who fear they could be the next victims. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Steve Shaw Date: 17 Apr 18 - 10:53 AM "That neatly sums up your participation here IMO." But it wasn't neat. I put a messy bit on the end which you left off. It was the most important bit. You threw away the baby boy and kept the foreskin. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Big Al Whittle Date: 17 Apr 18 - 10:43 AM I don't really get it. Surely no one is glad that we have dropped bombs and almost certainly killed people, in a conflict about god knows what. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: punkfolkrocker Date: 17 Apr 18 - 10:42 AM bobs maybe just getting a bit tired and forgetful... bless him.. ..all that pent up bile must be exhausting... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Dave the Gnome Date: 17 Apr 18 - 10:23 AM Wonder why you left off the last bit, bobad. You are getting as devious as your mate with your carefully crafted misquotes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: bobad Date: 17 Apr 18 - 10:08 AM The best threads are the ones in which you think that everyone else is a complete twat except for you That neatly sums up your participation here IMO. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Bonzo3legs Date: 17 Apr 18 - 08:10 AM Whatever - or as they say in Croydon "wha'evaaaaaaaaaaaar", that was a fine speech from Hilary Benn yesterday !!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: punkfolkrocker Date: 17 Apr 18 - 07:37 AM "The Far Left is anti-Western... You are just anti-Western democracy." Here we come, walkin' Down the street We get the funniest looks from Ev'ry one we meet Hey, hey, we're the Extremists And people say we Extremist around And we're extremely busy plotting To bring the West down We go wherever we want to do What we like to do We don't have time to get restless There's always something new Hey, hey, we're the Extremists And people say we Extremist around And we're extremely busy plotting To bring the West down We're just tryin' to be Extremists Come and watch us sing and play We're the Extreme generation And we've got something to say Any time, Or anywhere Just look over your shoulder Guess who'll be standing there Hey, hey, we're the Extremists And people say we Extremist around And we're extremely busy plotting To bring the West down [break] Hey, hey, we're the Extremists And people say we Extremist around And we're extremely busy plotting To bring the West down We're just tryin' to be Extremists Come and watch us sing and play We're the Extreme generation And we've got something to say Hey, hey, we're the Extremists Hey, hey, we're the Extremists [repeat and fade] [Extra verse:] Hey, hey, we're the Extremists You never know where we'll be found So you'd better get ready We may be comin' to your town Sound the warning sirens K****... we're already here plotting the downfall of western civilisation with a tune and a song...!!! You are that lone messenger warning the world...!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: bobad Date: 17 Apr 18 - 07:06 AM has likely attacked two further Syrian airbases. Correction, that should read Iranian air bases in Syria. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 17 Apr 18 - 06:58 AM They lie blatantly by telling us that they are acting in western public interest. It is not a lie if they are sincere. If use of these illegal weapons is allowed to become accepted and widespread, they will become available to terrorists and used against us. There is a reason why the world agreed to ban their use. Obama was right to make their use a red line. You would not take this line if a Western nation flouted this ban. You are just anti-Western democracy. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Dave the Gnome Date: 17 Apr 18 - 06:34 AM Maybe this is all part of the game? Trump scraps new sanctions against Russia Putin and Trump seem to be cheeks on the same arse. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Iains Date: 17 Apr 18 - 05:17 AM Damm Steve! I have to agree with you again. Conflicting stories from both sides about the OPCW fact finding mission. Who to believe? Our poodle is a disgrace and the antics of Parliament yesterday no better. I can only believe there is a bigger gameplan that we are not privy to. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Steve Shaw Date: 17 Apr 18 - 05:06 AM Funny, innit, how we have Israel, the UK, the US and Russia all hubristically jostling for political ascendancy, aka using Syria as their proxy battlefield, by dropping the usual standards we (ostensibly)) demand for evidence before finding people guilty in our own justice systems (though I don't pretend to know much about Russia's). Focussing on just those decent, open, western, well-informed liberal democracies just for now (just to pick up on a few adjectives that have been tendentiously proposed here as some sort of "evidence"), they act fast, at night, before reports are in, and they pay no heed to their parliaments or to public opinion. They lie blatantly by telling us that they are acting in western public interest. I'm no pacifist and I don't propose inaction or paralysis in the face of outrages against civilians in foreign war zones, but make no mistake in doubting that the leaders of our supposed democracies are acting first and foremost in their own political interests. I didn't have much time for Harold Wilson but he stood up to the bullying Lyndon Johnson and kept us out of Vietnam, the best part of his legacy in my opinion, and it didn't weaken him at home. Theresa May for one has acted disgracefully and pusillanimously in going along with Trump on this and I hope that the pressure on her will be kept up. She could easily have recalled parliament but she didn't, knowing that she would lose the vote on the paltry evidence she had to hand. At the very least, these arrogant people whose wages we all pay should adopt a bit of humility and honesty, apprise us fully of ALL the evidence they have and consult their own assemblies before acting. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Jim Carroll Date: 17 Apr 18 - 04:32 AM "I am subscribing to the Financial Times in order to read it. " Happy to put it up Dave I don't subscribe - it's on line (I dropped my ad-blocker to read it - it goes back up now I have) It still opens up on line with this https://www.ft.com/content/47e1e0f6-408e-11e8-803a-295c97e6fd0b There are similar accounts of May-Blossom's ordeal - that was the best I'd come across Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 17 Apr 18 - 04:22 AM Israel has made many missile attacks on Syria recently. I FUK US? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Dave the Gnome Date: 17 Apr 18 - 04:21 AM Interesting that the Syrians are claiming they have shot down missiles that FUKUS say they have not launched. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 17 Apr 18 - 04:19 AM PFR, you say you are not part of a group, but you are one of a group of posters who always support each other and who all post from the same far-Left political stance. You yourself have referred to "we" and "us." The Far Left is anti-Western and I am sure that is why you pretend to believe Putin's lies. He is an enemy of Western liberal democracies. Robo and Bobad, thank you so much for your support. On this issue my case is just that the evidence against Assad and Putin is overwhelming, and accepted by every source other than RT. I also defend Obama's position that use of chemical weapons is a red-line that requires action from us. Why should any of you object to those views, which unlike yours are actually mainstream, being posted here? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Iains Date: 17 Apr 18 - 04:07 AM Anyway after the little diversion, Parliament debated the event of recent days, while Israel behaves as though every month has an R in it and has likely attacked two further Syrian airbases. Had the evidence placed before the government been unequivocal, there was perhaps a case for a response on humanitarian grounds. This assuredly was not the case though. If you read the UN reports it is clear poison gas has been used previously, both chlorine and sarin. The fact finding missions of the OPCW have collected samples that have tested positive for both. What is more difficult is to assess the type of munition used and mode of delivery. Pointing the finger relies on accurate determination of the latter factors. That finger clearly points at the various rebel groups and Assad, although previous form suggests certain outcomes may have been as a result of being leaned on. Syria is fast becoming a festering sore that could explode into a far bigger war. The Israeli actions do nothing other than create constant provocation and vastly increased tension. I wonder what bigger game they are playing? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: David Carter (UK) Date: 17 Apr 18 - 04:05 AM Sorry Jim, there might be an interesting timeline in that article, but there is no way that I am subscribing to the Financial Times in order to read it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Jim Carroll Date: 17 Apr 18 - 03:48 AM "Keith A of Hertford has been a clear, consistent, and moderate poster, unlike many of his detractors." All this means is that you agree with him He is by far the least moderate of any poster that has posted in my time here (anybody who denigrates and targets entire cultural, national and religious groups are among the most immoderate and dangerous people on the planet) This line of discussion has become pointless Any discussion forum will divide itself into political trends of one degree or another - hopefully, we can learn from those we disagree with - otherwise we may as well shout at each other and wave banners - which is basically what "you lot" or 'the pack' You lean from people in two ways - from what they say or from being forced to follow up what that say - if all you do is scoop up out-of-context phrases to back up your already set opinions is a waste of our being here - you learn nothing from that - it happens a lot It is counter-productive to slag off one another for where we stand politically - in a way our differences are the strength of this forum I still have fond memories of Mike Grosvenor Myer whose politics we very different from my own - I never met Mike, but I wish I had - I learned a hell of a lot from him Please can we move on Interesting time-line on chemical weapons in THIS ARTICLE Interesting readers response too Jim Carroll Timeline March 2011 Syrians take to the streets in what are initially peaceful protests against the government of President Bashar al-Assad July 2012 Syria publicly acknowledges that it has chemical weapons August 2012 Then US president Barack Obama draws his “red line” on the use of chemical weapons in Syria December 2012 The first alleged chemical attack is carried out since the start of the Syrian war March 2013 The UN announces an investigation into the possible use of chemical weapons August 2013 More than 1,000 people are killed in alleged chemical weapons attack on eastern Ghouta. The US blames Mr Assad for the attack, raising the possibility of military US strikes against the Syrian government September 2013 The US and Russia reach an agreement for Syria to give up its chemical weapons and the US in return backs down from military action June 2015 Chemical weapons watchdog the OPCW says the last of Syria’s declared chemical weapons have been removed or destroyed but allegations of chlorine attacks continue April 2017 More than 80 people are killed in a sarin attack on the town of Khan Sheikhoun. The US fires 59 Tomahawk missiles at a Syrian air base in response October 2017 A joint OPCW-UN joint report blames the Syrian government for the Khan Sheikhoun sarin attack April 2018 An alleged chemical attack takes place in Douma, in the eastern Ghouta suburbs of Damascus |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Dave the Gnome Date: 17 Apr 18 - 03:05 AM I reckon the best BS threads are proper debates leavened with robust matey piss taking banter. Sound good to me PFR but there are those on here who see "robust matey piss taking banter" as an insult and something with which to beat you over the head. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Steve Shaw Date: 16 Apr 18 - 09:15 PM The best threads are the ones in which you think that everyone else is a complete twat except for you...but you have doubts... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: punkfolkrocker Date: 16 Apr 18 - 09:03 PM If I was a mod here I'd be shit, because I'd never delete or close anything... Actually the name 'punkfolkrocker' is a bit of clue to where I'm at... a rough blend fermented mixture of brash robust abrasiveness, and softie bucolic tranquility... Over educated working class punk hippy from the 1970s west country... peace n luv n militancy... I reckon the best BS threads are proper debates leavened with robust matey piss taking banter.. Like being in a band that enjoys playing together hard and seriously sarcastic... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Steve Shaw Date: 16 Apr 18 - 08:48 PM I agree with all that, but let's face it, very occasionally the life support has to be switched off... I mean, where the hell was that Gaza thread going! I don't think that unfettered, unalloyed toxicity is in the best interests of this forum. Nowt wrong with a good bit of knockabout but this is a music forum first and foremost... Discuss... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: punkfolkrocker Date: 16 Apr 18 - 08:45 PM Steve - we cross posted, so I've only just read yours... Zomerzett and Scrumpyshire are linked alternative dimensions, where all is a paradise of great music and good cheer... Right I'm back downstairs to watch the rest of "John Wick 2" I only came up here for a pee break and to check which threads were still open... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: punkfolkrocker Date: 16 Apr 18 - 08:38 PM I'll add further that I do not agree with closing threads, or banning wayward members... make of that what you will... In fact I am uncomfortable with the notion of 'sending to Coventry' / 'shunning', but at the moment have reluctantly accepeted this course of action as a last resort, because all other prior attempts to improve the rancid atmosphere here have not worked... K**** has proven to be his own worse enemy, and is sowing what he reaped... I'd rather be friends with folks in a community, even if we are poles apart on important beliefs and issues. Others here, prefer animosity and antagonism... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Steve Shaw Date: 16 Apr 18 - 08:37 PM Hear hear, pfr, the voice of Zomerzett yokelry! (I'm leaning, well-besmocked, on a Cornish gate with straw twixt teeth, I hasten to add...) For any lunatic who is the faintest bit interested in seeing what we're on about, it starts here: Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines From: robomatic - PM Date: 12 Apr 18 - 08:51 PM ...May I draw your attention to the late GAZA thread which was closed upon a long diatribe from you of everybody's anti-Jewish agenda but yourself. You were warned by your threadmates if no one else. Once again, your main problem seems to be that you do not realize this is not supposed to be about yourself. Pretty shameful in a thread about starving people. I call your pants to be requiring an extinguisher. You have to read on from that post down the thread. It's as unbearable as ever, I warn you... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: punkfolkrocker Date: 16 Apr 18 - 08:27 PM Robo - I'll just add that I have no use for PMs or any other forms of clandestine communications 'behind the scenes'. I prefer straight open talk in the threads for all to see. I have never PMd anyone, apart from polite responses to others who PMd me out of the blue. In approx 15 years my total PM count is 35... You, bob, and others of your disposition seem to be imagining greater plotting and scheming than actually exists in reality. I belong to no groups, I am not an actor for anyone here apart from my own personal independent bond with mudcat community. Too many old folks here, are being very paranoid and silly... I can for amusement view such behaviour as a microcosm analogy of the kind of top level arsholery that runs this planet...!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Steve Shaw Date: 16 Apr 18 - 08:09 PM What I "borrowed from another thread" was entirely my own work, old chap, so hardly "borrowed." The thread that was suddenly closed down, to your chagrin, had become infested with posts from two trolls. I challenge you to quote their posts from the last two days of that thread and tell me how they weren't trolling. I've told you already that I asked a mod to close the thread, which had become terminally toxic. I even gave you the PM which I sent to the mod, which was polite and which was a request, not a demand. If you really think that the thread had a future, do apprise us of your reasons (we're talking here about that Gaza thread, btw, folks...). There's something seriously wrong with you if you think that threads that turn that way should carry on, but do tell us why you think to the contrary. You jumped to an unjustified conclusion as to why the thread was closed and you're clearly still seething that you were sussed. You've demonstrated some shallowness to go alongside your sour grapes and your opinion of Keith and me are of no further interest to me. And there is no bullying in this post, but there is a dose of searing honesty from me. Deal with it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: robomatic Date: 16 Apr 18 - 07:51 PM Steve Shaw: I appreciate a straight response from you but if you yourself have the slightest sense of fairness you will understand that with my experience in this and other threads I can perceive little difference between the behavior you claim for Keith, and the behavior I have personally witnessed from you. Your reply was verbose, extensively borrowed from an unrelated thread, and was condescending to boot. And you HAVE behaved in a bullying manner IMO. I experienced the sudden closing of a thread I had started which covered a subject not otherwise being addressed. Ad hominems began flying back and forth, neither side being appropriate IMO, but the sudden shutdown with no reason giving was an example to me of certain folks talking to other folks behind the scenes and I don't know any of them and it felt rather high handed to me. You and your fellow actors have the same options of staying on message and citing your sources as anyone else without devolving into long diatribes and making oh-so-clever references to Joe McCarthy and Dr. Strangelove. Color me not impressed and allow me to make my own judgments when Mr. A of Hertford goes off the rails as you so often have claimed and I have yet to witness. You seem to think the 'A' is for Adolf but maybe it's for Abraham (which might be no improvement to your mind, but then again, it might be for Aloysius, one of my patron saints. Your mileage may vary. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: punkfolkrocker Date: 16 Apr 18 - 05:29 PM "I strongly agree with robomatic's assessment of Keith's posts and the abuse he is subjected to by the usual suspects. I don't agree with pfr's opinion that he is the one responsible for wrecking threads - it takes two to tango." bob - no surprises here then...!!! btw... who ever said K**** is the only culpable thread wrecker requiring positive intervention and remedial attention...??? .. onwards & upwards striving for a better mudcat environment and experience for all... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Steve Shaw Date: 16 Apr 18 - 04:51 PM Robomatic, it's hardly surprising that you defend Keith. Your own record here is that of a rather blinkered, right-wing ideologue who rather closely aligns himself with his stance. Two bad people have been removed from this forum recently, and an even more recent change is taking place: we are sidelining Keith by ignoring his posts. Not because we are bullies or because we don't want to discuss points that may arise in his posts, but because he is currently the most vexatious poster here by a country mile. Not the most trolling, not by a long chalk, though he does seem to be in an increasingly desperate attention-seeking mindset, characterised by calling his perceived opponents extremists at every opportunity. Well we don't want to be his opponents any more. We want him to either stop what he's doing and play nice or wallow in isolation. That's his remaining choice here. Just watch if you don't believe me. I posted this yesterday in another thread and I stand by very word: "The people you're referring to [Mike] do at least put their arguments, not necessarily diplomatically, admittedly. The main complainer [Keith] who seems to have duped you, Mike, does not listen to what we say and constantly tries to make us jump through hoops, set booby traps, lies about what he's previously said, flaunts his skewed, right-wing views as somehow mainstream (which they may well be if you regard the Daily Mail as mainstream, I suppose) and has no interest in any sort of normal, civil debate. He treats the whole thing as a game that he simply has to win. He's feeling miffed at the moment because we are ignoring him, and, rest assured, if he responds to this, which he will, we will continue do so. By doing that we are at least trying to sweeten the place a bit. If you want to see who else it really is who pisses people off and makes the game not worth the candle, take a look at the recently-closed Gaza thread please, especially the inputs from bobad and BeardedBruce in its last couple of days. You are confusing bad-tempered squabbling, bad enough in itself and we ought to know better, with wilful negativity and trolling." I hasten to add that Mike's a good old boy and I didn't mean to attack him personally in any way. It's just that he gave me an opportunity to deliver that salvo at Keith. Some of us are determined to change things around here for the better. Watch this space. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: bobad Date: 16 Apr 18 - 04:41 PM I strongly agree with robomatic's assessment of Keith's posts and the abuse he is subjected to by the usual suspects. I don't agree with pfr's opinion that he is the one responsible for wrecking threads - it takes two to tango. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: punkfolkrocker Date: 16 Apr 18 - 03:59 PM Robo - the person you mention is capable of making serious, intelligent, valid points - no arguement about that... But you need to appreciate the history of how he has undermined his own credibility and alienated so many other mudcatters, with years of his persistent obsessive divisive self-indulgent posting patterns... He has wrecked too many threads and over stretched the patience and goodwill of a significant cross section of other mudcatters... I respect your effort to stand up for him, but suggest it is misplaced if you do not really know the extent of his negative behaviour over such a very long time. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: robomatic Date: 16 Apr 18 - 03:37 PM Just FWIW: Keith A of Hertford has been a clear, consistent, and moderate poster, unlike many of his detractors. I can tell who he is quoting and why He mostly sticks to a point or issue and agrees or contradicts it logically. He makes judgment calls on other posters, but in this thread anyway I haven't noticed any obscenities or harsh words. I agree with his judgment on Putin, Putin's lies, Putin's control of Russian organs of government, 'justice', and media. For instance, I'm convinced, as are many Europeans, that Russian missiles under the control of pro-Russian forces, shot down the Malaysian airliner full of Dutch civilians. I can go further into Putin's background and internal consistency of effort to make Russia stronger at virtually everyone else's expense, but this comment is more of an example than a full-on argument. The disparagement of Keith A of Hertford by other thread posters needs to be based on more than mere declarations of his (alleged) perfidy. And this and other threads would be better off if posters would argue the thread subjects and not into repetitive biased comments. I don't usually comment on these cross abuse posts but Keith is sometimes alone in there and he deserves to know that there is some unbiased judgment out there that doesn't always want to wade in the dispersive dismmissive detritus of repetitive ad hominum attacks. Hoops, Keith! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: punkfolkrocker Date: 16 Apr 18 - 01:12 PM Since posting here some hours earlier... A thought has been niggling in the back of my mind... Who does someone amongst us remind me of from a much earlier era...??? With his hysterical squawking finger pointing accusations of "extremists...!!!!!"...??? ...then it just occurred to me.. an uncanny similarity to Matthew Hopkins ...!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Jim Carroll Date: 16 Apr 18 - 10:07 AM Time for a few Un British Activity Trials I think Where's my Ouija board - does anybody know where they buried Joe McCarthy? This nutter gets even NUTTIER with each bite Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: punkfolkrocker Date: 16 Apr 18 - 09:59 AM "From: punkfolkrocker - PM Date: 15 Apr 18 - 12:39 PM [Re:Keith] He is crafty, conniving, two faced, and putting on an act of innocence to gain your support in attacking his perceived enemies..... Ie.. those from any point of the political spectrum [left, moderate, or right] who dare disagree with his toxic propagandising. Folks who he discredits and dismisses by branding them as 'extremists'..." ------------------------------------------ "From: Keith A of Hertford - PM Date: 16 Apr 18 - 04:17 AM PFR.... You choose to believe enemies of the West over them [May/Boris] for political reasons. The Russian government has rigid control of what all its police and security services say and do, it is not anwerable to a free opposition or a free media, and has been exposed as liars over and over again. That is not true of UK or Western governments. You are just an anti-West extremist." --------------------------------------- Someone has woken up on a Monday morning in an even more hysterical state of spite and resentment... Also now apparently taking inspiration from the 1950s McCarthyism Witch Hunts... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Iains Date: 16 Apr 18 - 09:39 AM More false news. However I find it a reasonably convincing narrative. https://russia-insider.com/en/skripal-syria-empires-new-realities-are-reaching-end-road/ri23158 Do Assad and Putin really qualify as the Laurel and Hardy of geopolitics? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Iains Date: 16 Apr 18 - 09:19 AM Actually I did see the start of it. From outside the cham palace hotel Damascus. The protesters were marching up towards the 4 seasons hotel where the OPCW teams have formerly stayed. Initially the protests were well ordered. Subsequently our inhouse security determined it was time to evacuate. After that I have no first hand knowledge of subsequent events, other than sporadic emails from former Syrian colleagues. The entire time I was there Damascus day or night was a far safer place for a solitary person than London. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Jim Carroll Date: 16 Apr 18 - 08:53 AM "Yeah yeah yeah. You were there and saw it all first hand were you?" No I didn't - did you? It was extremely well reported and the protests even led to your Government providing back-up to many of them (while selling weapons and training successors to keep the Qaddafi regime in place, of course) The Tory SPECTATOR MAGAZINE article by Peruvian economist, Hernando de Soto, summed up the general feelings about the protest, in my opinion Hernando de Soto Time magazine chose De Soto as one of the five leading Latin American innovators of the century in its special May 1999 issue" There was a wonderful Panorama programme showing the duplicity of the "decent liberal behavior of Britain which showed how British troops fighting to overthrow Muammar Qaddafi's regime were being bombarded by shells sold to Qaddafi by British Arms dealers - "friendly fire" I suppose you might describe it !! Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 16 Apr 18 - 08:43 AM David C, , and I very much doubt that they were involved in shooting down a Malaysian airliner. BBC, The JIT and the government in Ukraine say the missile was brought from Russia and launched from the rebel-held part of Ukraine. In June 2016, JIT published a photo of a large Russian-made Buk missile component found at the crash site. In its September report, JIT used witness testimony, intercepted phone calls, photographs and satellite imagery showing scorched land to pinpoint the launch site on high ground at Pervomaiskyi, near Snizhne, in territory held by pro-Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine. It said it had been able to track the course of the missile trailer from Russia to the launch site and immediately back into Russian territory following the downing of the plane. Wiki, "The DSB and JIT findings confirmed earlier claims by American and German intelligence sources and the Ukrainian government as to the missile type and launch area. In 2014, Ukraine and US intelligence had also said that Russia had supplied the Buk missile to pro-Russian insurgents, who had mistakenly shot down the aircraft.[9][10][11][12] |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Iains Date: 16 Apr 18 - 07:51 AM "There were no factions during the Demonstrations - that was the point - they were spontaneous protests that were sweeping the Arab world - the greatest chance of spreading democracy this generation has ever had" Yeah yeah yeah. You were there and saw it all first hand were you? You have impeccable sources to give you the true story? Do you seriously believe there were no Agents provocateurs shipped in by the shed load to stir things up? Strange these events never occurred in Saudi where 51% of the population is under 25. It is also the most repressive society in the middle east As Wiki says:The Arab Spring was a revolutionary wave of both violent and non-violent demonstrations, protests, riots, coups, foreign interventions, and civil wars in North Africa and the Middle East that began on 18 December 2010 in Tunisia with the Tunisian Revolution. This is not a spontaneous protest as I understand the word. What part of foreign intervention do you not understand? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: David Carter (UK) Date: 16 Apr 18 - 07:24 AM Bellingcat??? Thats Eliot Higgins, also known as Brown Moses well known Walter Mitty character. Operates from his bedroom in Leicester. Give it a rest Keith. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Jim Carroll Date: 16 Apr 18 - 07:04 AM "Who created the factions" There were no factions during the Demonstrations - that was the point - they were spontaneous protests that were sweeping the Arab world - the greatest chance of spreading democracy this generation has ever had The failure to realist that fully (it was partially for a time) opened it up to opportunists to take advantage - Isis has been the most successful to capitalise and to grow to the size it has. At the beginning of the protests Britain hosted a massive arms fair aimed at selling weapons to some of the leaders being protested against - Saudi Arabia being a case in point Diddy David Cameron went to pay his respect at the funeral of the father of the despotic Saudi Regime while a protester Journalist was being administered 1000 lashes for supporting protests THe Tories made quite clear side Britain was on on in all this from quite early on - lip-service for the protesters, weapons fro the despots - good business practice "Why is it necessary to make Syria yet another failed state." the Assad's family decades old record of state terrorism, torture and mass murder make it essential that they become a "failed state and the State leader put on trial for his crimes against humanity as soon as humanly (emphasis on this word) possible. I wonder would you have protested as loudly on behalf of Germany's Industrial capitalist Nazi State - the similarities are there for all to see. Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 16 Apr 18 - 06:56 AM Dave C, I have no idea whether the Russians were involved in the murder of Litvinenko The Public Enquiry found that he did. The evidence was unequivocal. and I very much doubt that they were involved in shooting down a Malaysian airliner. 'Clear and unequivocal' that Russia faked MH17 evidence (MH17) Satellite images of missile launcher were tampered with to blame Ukrainians for airliner crash that killed 298, Bellingcat investigative group says . https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11643847/Clear-and-unequivocal-that-Russia-faked-MH17-evidence-report-says.html As far as intervening in Crimea is concerned, I don't remember Putin ever denying doing that. BBC, "Russia's annexation of Crimea last year caught almost everyone off guard. The Russian military disguised its actions, and denied them - but those "little green men" who popped up in the Black Sea peninsula were a textbook case of the Russian practice of military deception - or maskirovka." http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-31020283 |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Iains Date: 16 Apr 18 - 06:38 AM I wonder how Arab Spring changed from protest to full on guerilla warfare? Who created the factions Who trains/ed them Who supplies them Who is embedded with them Who proposed the domino theory Who keeps threatening to leave and keeps changing their mind Why is it necessary to make Syria yet another failed state. It sure as hell ain't rocket science to put an unwavering finger in one direction. So what allegations are true and what are false flags? Where are the boots on the ground to provide unequivocal evidence. Do we go to war on the basis of as yet unsubstantiated allegations that would not even generate a case in a court of law? Kissingers jibe that military men were "dumb stupid animals to be used" as pawns of foreign policy will come back to haunt the hawks if body bags start coming home. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: David Carter (UK) Date: 16 Apr 18 - 06:29 AM I have no idea whether the Russians were involved in the murder of Litvinenko, and I very much doubt that they were involved in shooting down a Malaysian airliner. Someone with one of their missiles probably was. As far as intervening in Crimea is concerned, I don't remember Putin ever denying doing that. He just said that they were justified in doing so, you may disagree with him but that is purely an opinion. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Iains Date: 16 Apr 18 - 06:16 AM Rule Brittania might have been true a century ago, now our fleet could not fill the Serpentine! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Jim Carroll Date: 16 Apr 18 - 06:13 AM Can we cut though this patriotic, flag-wagging garbage The "decent democratic nations" were more than happy to stand by for decades and watch the people of Syria tortured and massacres by "an old ally of Britain" The only thing they did was to sell them weapons and equipment in order to round protesters up into torture chambers (Keith gave them his blessing in doing this on the "Homs Horror" thread) The stockpiles of chemical weapons now being drawn from may have been facilitated by sales of chemicals by Britain) The "decent democratic nations" allowed Arab Spring protests to metamorphose into civil war and when Muslims genuinely supporting democratic change in Syria volunteered to fight Assad, the same "decent democratic nations" described them as terrorists and jihadists It is little surprise that many of these volunteers eventually joined up with real terrorists like Isis - the rest of the world had sold them out so they turned to people of their own faith And so Isis became a world threat This latest theatre is little more than that - a theatrical gesture staged because Assad and "Free Russia" have become an embarrassment to the "decent democratic nations" I disagree with those who say Russia didn't do it - I think there is enough evidence to suggest that the "Free and Democratic" leadership of new Russia is up to their elbows in this slaughter I go along with Corbyn that this should not have been carried out without U.N. backing May Blossom is now facing a Parliamentary debate on whether she had the right to go to war without their permission The fct that she acted as she did confirms her party's allowing Britain to be Amarica's (in this case, Trump's Amarica's) poodle. The European countries are now debating whether they were waise to support the attacks, but then again, the Frenchies and Co have never peen part of the "decent democratic nations" of the world, have they now - I ask you!!! Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Steve Shaw Date: 16 Apr 18 - 06:04 AM We have enemies when we are at war. Otherwise we have people with various perspectives, all of whom lie and propagandise and all of whom we have to try to get on with. Sorry if that makes me an extremist! :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Jim Carroll Date: 16 Apr 18 - 05:48 AM "You choose to believe enemies of the West " ANSWER HERE |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: MikeL2 Date: 16 Apr 18 - 05:43 AM Hi Steve " I suppose I can exonerate you to some degree as you are in the unfortunate position of being a Man U fan... " Now that is hitting below the belt lol Cheers Mike |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Iains Date: 16 Apr 18 - 05:36 AM Well the Easter recess is over. Our illustrious MPs return to the Cauldron of Cerridwen to continue the noble art of glutting. Hopefully they can tear themselves away long enough to rip the PM a new a+++hole concerning a recent illegal strike on Syria. Much as I dislike Corbyn we shall now see if he is man or mouse. I would like to see a massive vote of no confidence in the PM. It is a final chance for our MPs to show if they support themselves or their electorate. Long term this is far more of an issue than brexit. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 16 Apr 18 - 05:33 AM Putin, well I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him, but I have less direct evidence that he lies. Some examples, He lied about cheating in the Olympics, lied about its intervention in Crimea, lied about the shooting down of a Malaysian airliner, lied about their murder of Alexander Litvinenko, Boris Nemtsov, Anna Politkovskaya,......... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: David Carter (UK) Date: 16 Apr 18 - 05:16 AM Boris is a liar, has been proven over and over again. Putin, well I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him, but I have less direct evidence that he lies. Trump, capable of completely contradicting himself in two consecutive twitter posts. May, so weak that she moulds herself to the form of the last person who sat on her. Macron, well he has arms sales to the Saudi's to consider, the truth is not high on his list of priorities. A complete shower of crap the lot of them. But Corbyn speaks some sense, which it is through the UN that problems should be resolved and any action determined. The "western democracies" have long since yielded any right to moralise over events in the middle east, those days went out with the Sykes-Picot agreement |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 16 Apr 18 - 04:29 AM Dave, If Boris lied, the opposition would call for his resignation. They do not. You lied when you described the recent strikes as "bombing the shit out of Syria." Jim, You choose to believe enemies of the West " Why do you? Western countries are liberal democracies whose actions and claims are scrutinised by opposition parties and a free media. Russia has been exposed as lying repeatedly and has none of those checks and balances on what it says and does. You choose to believe what Putin's proven liars say for your own extreme political purposes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Dave the Gnome Date: 16 Apr 18 - 04:23 AM Boris Johnson exposed as a liar over and over again |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Jim Carroll Date: 16 Apr 18 - 04:22 AM "You choose to believe enemies of the West " Were's me Union Jack!! More Lord Haw-Haw rhetoric Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 16 Apr 18 - 04:22 AM the main proponents of bombing the shit out of Syria Syria and Russia are bombing the shit out of the Syrian opposition, and poisoning them with illegal weapons. F UK US hit 3 military bases linked to illegal chemical weapons, killed no-one and injured 3. Not bombing the shit out of anyone. You are dishonest in your assessment of events favouring enemies of the Western democracies for your own extreme political purposes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 16 Apr 18 - 04:17 AM PFR, the highly dubious Boris/May account of what happened in Salisbury.... Boris/May account, informed by the police, security services and OPCW. You choose to believe enemies of the West over them for political reasons. The Russian government has rigid control of what all its police and security services say and do, it is not anwerable to a free opposition or a free media, and has been exposed as liars over and over again. That is not true of UK or Western governments. You are just an anti-West extremist. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Iains Date: 16 Apr 18 - 04:02 AM The incontrovertible evidence presented by France i.e. no evidence at all On such is the fate of Nations decided! The French services analysed the testimonies, photos and videos that spontaneously appeared on specialized websites, in the press and on social media in the hours and days following the attack.Testimonies obtained by the French services were also analysed. After examining the videos and images of victims published online, they were able to conclude with a high degree of confidence that the vast majority are recent and not fabricated. On the basis of this overall assessment and on the intelligence collected by our services, and in the absence to date of chemical samples analysed by our own laboratories,France therefore considers (i) that, beyond possible doubt, a chemical attack was carried out against civilians at Douma on 7April2018; and (ii) that thereis no plausible scenario other than that of an attack by Syrian armed forces as part of a wider offensive in the Eastern Ghouta enclave I wonder what conclusions they have reached on the Moon Landings? . |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Acorn4 Date: 16 Apr 18 - 03:52 AM From a friend of mine on fb:- Well at least now if someone asks Theresa May again what is the naughtiest thing she has ever done, at least she now has something else to say. Let's face it: unilaterally deciding to commit our nation to an act of war without consulting Parliament beats the shit out of running through a wheatfield. Rock on Tess ?? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Iains Date: 16 Apr 18 - 03:38 AM You obviously have not the slightest grasp of what he was saying jummie. Go back to bed and let the grown ups continue the debate. No wonder you believe the propaganda in its entirety. Do you actually have the capacity to think? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Jim Carroll Date: 16 Apr 18 - 03:19 AM “Pure data. You don’t believe data" Paolo Tadini Bacigalupi American science fiction and fantasy writer Great authority on "truth" Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Iains Date: 15 Apr 18 - 05:50 PM Pfr Happy to oblige and thankyou. If I had not done so I am sure Steve, yourself or any other freethinkers would have penned similar. I work on the assumption that we are always fed a single facet of a complex story. It is a fact the media can worry to death within the guidelines defined by the spinmeisters and divert attention away from the real story. Most of the targeted audience fall hook, line and sinker for the received "wisdom" My take is the more the story is vomited over the MSM the more it needs to be questioned. It is rarely black and white, they are all villains and there are no heroes. The hallmark of a true politician is the ability to lie through their teeth. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: punkfolkrocker Date: 15 Apr 18 - 05:29 PM Iains - cheers mudcat mate.. I was sat mulling over wording a similar post whilst enjoying a very late sunday fish chip dinner. And here it is - you've already done it, and much better than mine would have been... I'd have started something like... If I was a serious honest independent political journalist, or even an undergrad politics student.. I'd absolutely need to start by researching... "who do these organisations really represent. Who funds them From where do they get their data Who verifies their data Are they actually neutral Do they have independent assets in country" ...etc.. etc.. etc... These buggers in expensive suits in authority need much closer scrutiny, than the 'easily convinced mob' ask of them...!!! Thanks again for saving me some hard graft on a full belly... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Iains Date: 15 Apr 18 - 04:37 PM Of course if all the organisations with the long names quoted above were squeaky clean we could perhaps believe them. But demonstrably they follow their own agendas or have been got at in the past so their conclusions can be at best dubious or at worst downright lies. The white helmets for one have zero credibility. They stage manage events with a panache that makes micky mouse productions appear professional. Even the OPCW have been blackmailed in the past. To blindly accept all that is placed before you has to be the hallmark of a fool. You need to ask who do these organisations really represent. Who funds them From where do they get their data Who verifies their data Are they actually neutral Do they have independent assets in country “Pure data. You don’t believe data—you test data.If I could put my finger on the moment we genuinely fucked ourselves, it was the moment we decided that data was something you could use words like believe or disbelieve around.” |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Dave the Gnome Date: 15 Apr 18 - 04:16 PM You need to look up the difference between proponents and excuses bobad. And it's still tragically hilarious that it happens to be FUKUS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: bobad Date: 15 Apr 18 - 04:12 PM the main proponents of bombing the shit out of Syria The main proponents of bombing the shit out of Syria are Assad, Putin, the Ayatollahs of Iran and Erdogan. France, the UK and the US bombed the shit out of Assad's chemical weapon capability, much to the chagrin of his apologists it seems. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Steve Shaw Date: 15 Apr 18 - 04:10 PM Really? Give me the maths. I need to know how many Russian trolls there were before the start of the last 24 hours and how many Russian trolls there are now. Give me the precise numbers and I'll confirm your 2000 percent for you. I'm good like that. While you're at it, I should like the names and addresses of all those alleged trolls so that I can confirm their troliish credentials. Or not. Take your time now. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Dave the Gnome Date: 15 Apr 18 - 04:06 PM Oh yes, and well spotted PFR. As I have said for a long time now, everyone will eventually know the truth. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Dave the Gnome Date: 15 Apr 18 - 04:03 PM I like the initials of the main proponents of bombing the shit out of Syria because they have declared themselves judge, jury and executioner. F UK US Seems very apt somehow... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: bobad Date: 15 Apr 18 - 04:03 PM The Russian disinformation campaign has already begun. There has been a 2,000 percent increase in Russian trolls in the last 24 hours. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: punkfolkrocker Date: 15 Apr 18 - 03:25 PM If you doubt the OPCW, the Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Syrian Arab Republic, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, the Violations Documentation Center in Syria, the United Nations Human Rights Council, the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, the Union of Medical Care and Relief Organizations, and the Syria Civil Defence medics then perhaps you can tell us who's word you would accept as authentic. Bob - why, yours of course... While we're at it.. we can also save time and effort if you just tell me to type your script of what I think and agree with... there.. world problems solved...!!! I'm off to the toilet to make room for fish n chips...... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: bobad Date: 15 Apr 18 - 03:11 PM doubt of it's providers and authenticity... If you doubt the OPCW, the Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Syrian Arab Republic, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, the Violations Documentation Center in Syria, the United Nations Human Rights Council, the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, the Union of Medical Care and Relief Organizations, and the Syria Civil Defence medics then perhaps you can tell us who's word you would accept as authentic. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: punkfolkrocker Date: 15 Apr 18 - 02:59 PM Bob - I suspect 'proof' will always be tainted with doubt of it's providers and authenticity... But on balance / gut feeling I'm prepared to go some way along with the version that Asshat is an evil villain who needs swift punative justice, more than I'm prepared to accept the highly dubious Boris/May account of what happened in Salisbury.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: bobad Date: 15 Apr 18 - 02:47 PM I don't know what kind of proof you require pfr but I do know that many agencies including the OPCW have confirmed well over seventy chemical weapon attacks in Syria with some having been delivered by plane or helicopter. Seeing as how none of the groups fighting Assad have planes or helicopters there is only one logical possibility as to who is the guilty part unless you're some kind of conspiracy nut. The Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Syrian Arab Republic says it has confirmed at least 34 chemical attacks since 2013, many of which it said used chlorine or sarin, a nerve agent, and were conducted by the Syrian government. Human Rights Watch has reported that there have been 85 chemical attacks since 2013, based on its analysis of reports verified by various sources, including United Nations investigations and Amnesty International. Link to the NY Times article with a list (Source: Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Syrian Arab Republic) of confirmed chemical weapon attacks and the perpetrator. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Bonzo3legs Date: 15 Apr 18 - 02:28 PM Countries that supported Syria strikes: - US - UK - France - Germany - Turkey - Saudi - Qatar - Canada - Japan - Spain - Australia - Israel - Denmark - Bahrain - Italy - Poland Opposed the strikes: - Syrian regime - Russia - Iran - China - Iraq - Venezuela - Algeria - Lebanon - Hamas - and Jeremy Corbyn. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Iains Date: 15 Apr 18 - 02:27 PM Funny how Israel/ Gaza has dropped from the headlines. How convenient. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: punkfolkrocker Date: 15 Apr 18 - 01:53 PM "severely degrading one leader's capability to kill his citizens with chemical weapons is a good thing, do you not agree?" Bob - In principle I absolutely agree.. and could also, as a last resort, be persuaded to accept a direct drone missile strike on an evil dictators head... However, as an educated intelligent fairly well informed observer of news events, I require a far higher quality of genuinely balanced objective news media than we are currently being fed, and asked to believe without question... I simply do not trust the 'official' version of complex events and fictions happening in Syria and Salisbury..... Frankly, I suspect few will ever truly understand the 'reality'...??????? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 15 Apr 18 - 01:35 PM PFR, All our efforts to befriend and reconcile with him have been rejected and abused. I have not rejected or abused anything. Quote me if that is wrong! All I have ever done is put my mainstream views which unfortunately challenge your teams' extreme ones. He is crafty, conniving, two faced, and putting on an act of innocence to gain your support in attacking his perceived enemies..... Unable to reply to or address anything I have said, you resort to personal abuse. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Raggytash Date: 15 Apr 18 - 01:35 PM Punkfolkrocker, Thank you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Iains Date: 15 Apr 18 - 01:33 PM The more I read about the "poisoning/s" and the much vaunted retribution, the more suspicion I have that I am watching theatre. It is reported from some sources that communications to all sides were retained throughout. First retribution is coming by the next post, then by carrier pigeon. How much is for public consumption and how much to achieve the stated ends. Cynical me thinks far more is happening than we are aware of. I suspect a bit of a bunfight is occurring between "neocons" and the presidency. There is a stated aim(twice) to leave Syria. There are two (staged?) events that promptly kick the likelihood into touch. Who actually had control of what I wonder? Does the hierarchy in the land of milk and honey have a little curdling and foulbrood perhaps? Does the president actually call the shots here? or is shadowland interfering? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Jim Carroll Date: 15 Apr 18 - 01:30 PM "I ask you please be careful not to be fooled, used, manipulated by Keith..." Don't be mean - this Chocolate Soldier is really good fun - especially when he rolls over and dies for the Queen when you offer him a biscuit It seems from the news reports that the gesturing is over, the Wanker in the White House has made his election appearance and the killing goes on as usual One more town full of civilians to slaughter and the Genii we helped create is back in its bottle "shagabbott!! "Who woke up the other Troll!! Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: bobad Date: 15 Apr 18 - 01:26 PM Well pfr, it's not likely we will be seeing any leaders deposed in the near future but in the present, severely degrading one leader's capability to kill his citizens with chemical weapons is a good thing, do you not agree? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Bonzo3legs Date: 15 Apr 18 - 01:12 PM No doubt Corbyn is preparing his arse for tomorrows outbursts in Parliament aided and abetted by the nodding shagabbott!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: punkfolkrocker Date: 15 Apr 18 - 01:12 PM oops... that should have read..."apologists for Assad and Putin" i'm contending with a combination of cranky mudcat behaviour, and even crankier USB keyboard drivers..... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: punkfolkrocker Date: 15 Apr 18 - 01:10 PM "apologists for Assad" Why would any sensible person not want to see probably most world leaders deposed and replaced by saner individuals...??? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: bobad Date: 15 Apr 18 - 01:04 PM From Haaretz "The bombing was the biggest intervention by Western countries against Assad and his superpower ally Russia, but the three countries said the strikes were limited to Syria's chemical weapons capabilities and not aimed at toppling Assad or intervening in the civil war." It would appear that apologists for Assad and Putin are opposed to seeing their chemical weapon capabilities degraded especially when it's the big, bad "West" that's doing the job. At least the Syrian people are safer now and that's what counts. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: punkfolkrocker Date: 15 Apr 18 - 12:39 PM I've had enough of the tripe I am reading here today... To the good natured folks of mudcat, who maybe only dip into BS threads now and then, I ask you please be careful not to be fooled, used, manipulated by Keith... He is crafty, conniving, two faced, and putting on an act of innocence to gain your support in attacking his perceived enemies..... Ie.. those from any point of the political spectrum [left, moderate, or right] who dare disagree with his toxic propagandising. Folks who he discredits and dismisses by branding them as 'extremists'... A number of us have sadly become very familiar with his negative devisive behaviour and tactics over several years... All our efforts to befriend and reconcile with him have been rejected and abused. For the moment, a last resort resignation to ignore him, may or may not be improving the situation...??? Please be wary not to be taken in by him and his malign pretence of innocence... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Jim Carroll Date: 15 Apr 18 - 12:26 PM Hertford Calling -Hertford Calling Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 15 Apr 18 - 12:23 PM So you can't identify anything either. I must be right then, as usual. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Steve Shaw Date: 15 Apr 18 - 12:14 PM Don't bother, Jim. We're doing very well. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 15 Apr 18 - 12:11 PM Identify anything I got wrong then Jim. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Jim Carroll Date: 15 Apr 18 - 12:09 PM "Not from EU nations, Australia, Canada, New Zealand or UN. " Sounds more like Lord Haw-Haw with every posting (or should that be Tokyo Rose!) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 15 Apr 18 - 11:47 AM it amazes me that folk can give may any credit for her pathetic gesture and gross hypocrisy And Macron? He was prepared to make a unilateral stand against the poison gas atrocity. Corbyn said "bombs and war will never make peace" This strike was not about making peace. It was not an intervention in their civil war. It was a punishment for flouting the international treaties against poison gas, and for using it on civilians and kids. It was also to deter further use by Assad or any other war criminal using the stuff in the future. Apart from extremists on this forum, Moscow and Damascus, where can we see condemnation of this action? Not from EU nations, Australia, Canada, New Zealand or UN. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Jim Carroll Date: 15 Apr 18 - 09:50 AM "Corbyn said "bombs and war will never make peace" " He's right of course Diplomatic and economic pressure could and should have been used way back when Assad got going - bombs have been resorted to by the country that used the first weapon of mass destruction on two cities filled with civilians - the survivors and their families produced deformed children for many decades later - while the same countries carried out a years-long chemical bombing programme on third-world peasants The point is that no bomb has ever been invented that can discriminate between combatants and non-combatants Al Whittle had the right of it when he wrote "easier than standing under where the bombs are falling!" This Trump inspired gesture is no more than that - isn't there a half-term election in the offing! Before one of the 'warriors' here as what should hae been done, I can only suggest the reply given to a Yankee Tourist asking the way; "I wouldn't start from here if I was you" Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: bobad Date: 15 Apr 18 - 09:19 AM Corbyn said "bombs and war will never make peace" Russia has bombed in Syria since September 2015 day in, day out - schools, market places, hospitals. During that time members of his front bench and inner circle spoke on Kremlin propaganda channel RT dozens of times. His hypocrisy is astounding. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Iains Date: 15 Apr 18 - 09:13 AM Bobad do you seriously think anyone is going to believe that last ridiculous post of yours. You would appear to be swayed by the same level of evidence acted on by the coalition to justify their strike. Good job it is only a battlefield where people get killed, rather than a courtroom where people get sentenced. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: bobad Date: 15 Apr 18 - 09:10 AM Yes Mike please do visit the recently-closed Gaza thread, by all means, and see for yourself. It's always the same story with this cabal of ideologues who have driven away most of the reasonable people from the forum - it's everyone else, not us. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Steve Shaw Date: 15 Apr 18 - 08:57 AM It is not true at all, Mike. The people you're referring to do at least put their arguments, not necessarily diplomatically, admittedly. The main complainer who seems to have duped you, Mike, does not listen to what we say and constantly tries to make us jump through hoops, set booby traps, lies about what he's previously said, flaunts his skewed, right-wing views as somehow mainstream (which they may well be if you regard the Daily Mail as mainstream, I suppose) and has no interest in any sort of normal, civil debate. He treats the whole thing as a game that he simply has to win. He's feeling miffed at the moment because we are ignoring him, and, rest assured, if he responds to this, which he will, we will continue do so. By doing that we are at least trying to sweeten the place a bit. If you want to see who else it really is who pisses people off and makes the game not worth the candle, take a look at the recently-closed Gaza thread please, especially the inputs from bobad and BeardedBruce in its last couple of days. You are confusing bad-tempered squabbling, bad enough in itself and we ought to know better, with wilful negativity and trolling. I suppose I can exonerate you to some degree as you are in the unfortunate position of being a Man U fan... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: bobad Date: 15 Apr 18 - 08:49 AM Majd khalaf ?Verified account @majdkhalaf1993 18h18 hours ago I am currently in Syria. I met many of the civilians here today, most of the civilians in areas outside the control of Assad, welcome to the US, British and French strikes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: MikeL2 Date: 15 Apr 18 - 08:35 AM Hi "This Mudcat group is able to dominate because their response to mainstream views is so nasty that ordinary decent people would rather stay away. " How true. Cheers Mike |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Dave the Gnome Date: 15 Apr 18 - 08:25 AM The pathetic gesture of suggesting that a democratic government should vote on what is best for the country? Surely May is being far more hypocritical by forcing through a dictatorial decision while being the head of a minority government? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Bonzo3legs Date: 15 Apr 18 - 08:18 AM Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: peteaberdeen - PM Date: 15 Apr 18 - 07:37 AM it amazes me that folk can give corbyn any credit for his pathetic gesture and gross hypocrisy - i'm sure it's been said already !!!!!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: keberoxu Date: 15 Apr 18 - 08:09 AM anyone for a Mudcat Tavern? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Dave the Gnome Date: 15 Apr 18 - 07:53 AM Well said both Steve and Peter. It is beyond me how people still fall for it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: peteglasgow Date: 15 Apr 18 - 07:37 AM it amazes me that folk can give may any credit for her pathetic gesture and gross hypocrisy - i'm sure it's been said already (not least by me) but 1. possible gassing by the syrian govt (in a country where 7? other powers are already dropping bombs) - resulting in 'we have to join in to protect innocent people and international law' (sic) 2. constant outrageous attacks on the palestinian people in contradiction of international law resulting in - 'that's ok, carry on, we'll look the other way) 3 saudi arabia indiscriminately bombing yemen - one of the poorest nations on earth. 'well done, chaps - would you like some more weaponry with your state banquet' just who do you cretinous little englanders think you are? how can you justify this poisonous nonsense? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Steve Shaw Date: 15 Apr 18 - 07:14 AM Theresa May is attempting to gain political strength from this from her very weak position. She even tried to look and sound like Thatcher when she was "explaining to the nation" what she was up to. The USA hates the UN and routinely either undermines it, mainly by vetoing any criticism of the Israeli regime, ignores it or refuses to pay its dues. We should not align ourselves in any way with the wild-west antics of that hubris-ridden idiot in the White House, who is similarly using this to strengthen himself at home. Giving distant Johnny Foreigners a whupping is a time-hounoured method of strengthening your hand with your own electorate. If we haven't learned from Blair and Iraq that before we start bombing foreign countries we need the solid truth about what happened and we need the consent of our country's elected representatives, well I don't know what. The argument that she put to us that what's been done is in the UK's interests is a downright lie. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Jim Carroll Date: 15 Apr 18 - 06:46 AM "He later renounced it as 'written by someone who didn't realise that bombs killed people'. Don'rt think Betjeman ever reached that stage Al Mind you - he saw writing about Slough "Come, friendly bombs, and fall on Slough! It isn't fit for humans now, There isn't grass to graze a cow. Swarm over, Death!" Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Big Al Whittle Date: 15 Apr 18 - 05:54 AM in the 1930's WH Auden wrote a rather wonderful poem called Spain. About the civil war. He later renounced it as 'written by someone who didn't realise that bombs killed people'. You can't help feeling that about some of these posts. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Iains Date: 15 Apr 18 - 05:40 AM It is very dark down the rabbit hole. Who knows where truth lies? Below: more confusion. http://halturnerradioshow.com/index.php/news/world-news/2347-breaking-news-false-flag-confirmed-chlorine-gas-used-for-chemical-a or https://english.al-akhbar.com/node/22772 It all has more facets than faces on a rhombododecahedron. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Bonzo3legs Date: 15 Apr 18 - 05:22 AM "The lesson of history is that when the global rules that keep us safe come under threat - we must take a stand and defend them" Theresa May 14 April 2018 |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Iains Date: 15 Apr 18 - 05:11 AM Seems to me the only ones threatening global rules is the coalition attack on Syria without UN sanction. They did not even bother putting a motion to the vote. Does the world policemen only operate to his own rules? When serious issues develop the UN is totally sidelined. It must be using the League of Natons as a template. But then step out of line and look what happened toDag Hammarskjöld! Dropping the hymn book can have most unfortunate consequences. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Jim Carroll Date: 15 Apr 18 - 05:09 AM TROLL ALERT |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Dave the Gnome Date: 15 Apr 18 - 05:06 AM If we never talk to our enemies, how are we supposed to make peace? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Bonzo3legs Date: 15 Apr 18 - 05:02 AM "The lesson of history is that when the global rules that keep us safe come under threat - we must take a stand and defend them" Theresa May 14 April 2018 |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Bonzo3legs Date: 15 Apr 18 - 04:58 AM Touches a nerve does it Jim Carroll - Corbyn the IRA sympathiser!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Jim Carroll Date: 15 Apr 18 - 04:20 AM "just a pity he didn't take the same view with the IRA and hamas" Don't you ***** start Bozo - one hate-soapbox at a time, if you don't mind Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Dave the Gnome Date: 15 Apr 18 - 04:17 AM Ta!king to make peace is hypocritical yet using bombs to make a political point is ok? Different morality. Different planet. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Bonzo3legs Date: 15 Apr 18 - 04:11 AM Corbyn said "bombs and war will never make peace" he's right of course, just a pity he didn't take the same view with the IRA and hamas. Seems happy for anyone to bomb the UK.... Always has been. Hypocrite. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Jim Carroll Date: 15 Apr 18 - 04:09 AM "was the view I have tried to express here." A lapse in my resolve to talkkk to morons, but patently;y untrue You read what you wish to read in everything and make everything left unsaid up The only d"group" here is the little bunch of (proven now)antisemites who share your desire to bale out the Israeli regime using the Jewish people as a human shield Just thought I'd say that before I finish You are the first to scream and shout "thread drift" so why introduce Israel to a thread about a current news item Pretty convincing proof that you use this forum as a personal soapbox - on behalf of extremism, against moderation and, as now shown, as a personal vendetta against those who disagree with your horrendously undemocratic and inhuman views Do not do this again Over and out Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Bonzo3legs Date: 15 Apr 18 - 04:09 AM Real splits in UKLabour as MPs back teresamayMP rather than jeremycorbyn so far I have seen statements on Twitter from JWoodcockMP and BenPBradshaw. They show more sense and support for our country than their leader does. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 15 Apr 18 - 03:43 AM BBC today said that all the Sunday papers, including the Observer, supported the strikes. This illustrates yet again how out of touch and unrepresentative of British views the dominant British group here is. The only demonstration against the strikes was by the extreme and Marxist SWP. Both Question Time and Any Questions this week discussed Labour Party anti-Semitism and the dominant view from panel and audience was the view I have tried to express here. This Mudcat group is able to dominate because their response to mainstream views is so nasty that ordinary decent people would rather stay away. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: keberoxu Date: 14 Apr 18 - 06:30 PM Laugh at astrology all you please, however: Michael Lutin, an astrologer with his own webpage, compared the Trump/Syria strike timing/chart with the Bush/Iraq strike timing/chart. In general both charts suggest that things don't go according to plan; and no, the charts are not identical, far from it; but one SNAFU aspect in particular is mirrored between the two charts. Lutin's comment: "it's going to be a mess like u can't believe" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: bobad Date: 14 Apr 18 - 05:16 PM "The fact that during this and the previous air strikes, there was coordination with the Russians should be enough to dissipate scaremongers' illusions of an imminent World War III." — #AJOpinion, by Malak Chabkoun Al Jazeera |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: bobad Date: 14 Apr 18 - 05:15 PM I see you left the "gassing their people" part out but WTH they're all equivalent right. Degrading a maniac's ability to murder his people with poison gas is the very same as poisoning your people with gas.....yeah, we get that, very good. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Dave the Gnome Date: 14 Apr 18 - 04:15 PM All who want to put and end to despots? I can live with that. Trump and Putin included? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Bonzo3legs Date: 14 Apr 18 - 04:01 PM IT WAS AN ACTION BY THE UK - LIVE WITH IT!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: bobad Date: 14 Apr 18 - 03:02 PM #inthenameofallwhowanttoputanendtomaniacaldespotsgassingtheirpeople |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Dave the Gnome Date: 14 Apr 18 - 02:38 PM Yep. #notinmyname. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: SPB-Cooperator Date: 14 Apr 18 - 01:50 PM Please don't refer to this being an action by UK, it is a unilateral action ordered by one person who does not command a majority in parliament. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 14 Apr 18 - 01:38 PM So why did France do it? It was done to deter the use of poison gas, especially on civilians and children |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: michaelr Date: 14 Apr 18 - 01:14 PM Assad has won. The rebels gave up. This attack is symbolic; Trump is doing it just because Obama didn't. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Dave the Gnome Date: 14 Apr 18 - 10:46 AM I would encourage regime change in Syria, the USA, Russia and the UK! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Bonzo3legs Date: 14 Apr 18 - 10:44 AM I would certainly encourage regime change in Syria. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Dave the Gnome Date: 14 Apr 18 - 10:41 AM If you want a good gamekeeper, pick a poacher. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: bobad Date: 14 Apr 18 - 08:48 AM Chemical weapons are wrong but it should be the UN who take action NOT SATIRE: just in case you needed another reason to doubt the legitimacy of the UN...Syria was chosen to chair the UN disarmament forum on chemical and nuclear weapons this week. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: punkfolkrocker Date: 14 Apr 18 - 08:34 AM Were the missiles getting near their use by date, and needing to be cleared out to make room to stock up on new ones at a special this weekend only discount rate...??? £££$$$ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Jim Carroll Date: 14 Apr 18 - 08:15 AM They're off - and it's all over Two hundred missiles fired and Assad and Russia can continue slaughtering civilians with conventional weapons as all decent democratic nations should Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: DMcG Date: 14 Apr 18 - 08:05 AM Funny how certain lefties on mudcat always know better Left, right, centre or uncommitted, I think many of us realise that this is unlikely to 'give Assad a biffing' in any way that affects his personal well being (short of eencouraging a coup of some kind). If, on the other hand the aim is to make him think carefully before using chemical weapons in future, that is a much more modest aim, and maybe even achievable with this single strike. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Jim Carroll Date: 14 Apr 18 - 07:57 AM "Funny how certain lefties on mudcat always know better" Funny how extremist righties on this forum always keep their mouths shut when it is pointed out that the the horrors we are discussing and condemning are crimes of the right - not left Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Iains Date: 14 Apr 18 - 07:42 AM " You are a sick individual." Naaaah!!!!!! I just think id you want to declare war on someone you need to be able to show your evidence to the world before taking action. So far all we have is a fog of lies and obsfuscation. If you want to claim to be world policemen you also need to be able to demonstrate a degree of integrity. We have the UN for policing actions. Perhaps we should use it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: peteglasgow Date: 14 Apr 18 - 07:29 AM keith -if you drop a load of bombs on stockpiles of poison gas what would be the effect on people nearby and the local environment? how many wars, or the lives of people involved in those wars, have ever been improved by dropping even more bombs into the situation? morw war is never the answer |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: bobad Date: 14 Apr 18 - 07:10 AM So far Putin showing statesmanship, not brinkmanship Right, standing in support of a despot who slaughters his people with poison gas shows great statesmanship. You are a sick individual. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Bonzo3legs Date: 14 Apr 18 - 06:47 AM Funny how certain lefties on mudcat always know better!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 14 Apr 18 - 06:43 AM But he won't, in all likelihood. His people will, his country will, Military bases only were attacked, all three of which were involved in illegal poison gas use. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: DMcG Date: 14 Apr 18 - 06:22 AM Absolutely essential that animal assad gets a good biffing. But he won't, in all likelihood. His people will, his country will, but it is most likely he won't be affected personally much at all. It could even strengthen his hold. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Bonzo3legs Date: 14 Apr 18 - 05:27 AM Absolutely essential that animal assad gets a good biffing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Big Al Whittle Date: 14 Apr 18 - 05:19 AM '"Strikes by US, France and UK make it clear that Syrian regime together with Russia and Iran cannot continue this human tragedy, at least not without cost. The EU will stand with our allies on the side of justice," Tusk said in a Twitter message.' easier than standing under where the bombs are falling! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: gillymor Date: 14 Apr 18 - 05:09 AM I'd feel a better about this if we didn't have a big orange man/baby calling the shots. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 14 Apr 18 - 04:46 AM European Council President Donald Tusk said Saturday the European Union stood by the United States, France and Britain over their air strikes against the regime in Syria for alleged chemical attacks. "Strikes by US, France and UK make it clear that Syrian regime together with Russia and Iran cannot continue this human tragedy, at least not without cost. The EU will stand with our allies on the side of justice," Tusk said in a Twitter message. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Steve Shaw Date: 14 Apr 18 - 04:46 AM Whoopee, we all gonna die! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Jim Carroll Date: 14 Apr 18 - 04:21 AM "Chemical weapons are wrong but it should be the UN who take action," It most certainly should be The cynicism of all this is that Countries like the U.S. and Russia have regularly used their U.N. vetoes to prevent action. Might help of course, if these countries stopped selling the wherewithal to produce these weapons, but that would nause up our economies, wouldn't it? It's a sobering thought that if world peace were declared tomorrow, the US, France, Britain, Germany, India and Saudi Arabia would be plunged into economic cris1s Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Iains Date: 14 Apr 18 - 03:41 AM So far Putin showing statesmanship, not brinkmanship. If events escalate that may well change. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Kampervan Date: 14 Apr 18 - 02:59 AM Why is it that three nations think that they have to police the world? Chemical weapons are wrong but it should be the UN who take action, based on a majority vote if Russia insist on vetoing everything. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: peteglasgow Date: 14 Apr 18 - 01:39 AM is it stupid of me to ask what happens to 'a stockpile of sarin gas' if you drop missiles on it? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: bobad Date: 13 Apr 18 - 11:37 PM From the NY Times: "A one-night operation, the strikes in Syria targeted a research facility, a command post and what was believed to be a stockpile of sarin gas." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: bobad Date: 13 Apr 18 - 11:22 PM Statement from Canada's Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: "Canada condemns in the strongest possible terms the use of chemical weapons in last week’s attack in eastern Ghouta, Syria. Canada supports the decision by the United States, the United Kingdom, and France to take action to degrade the Assad regime’s ability to launch chemical weapons attacks against its own people. We will continue to work with our international partners to further investigate the use of chemical weapons in Syria. Those responsible must be brought to justice." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Stilly River Sage Date: 13 Apr 18 - 10:49 PM Obama didn't cross that red line, because Congress didn't allow it. Trump always said Yes if Obama said No, so what we have here, apparently, is Trump trying to once again dismiss an Obama decision. Not that people didn't like that Congress didn't allow a military response, and Obama was blamed. Trump the Showman is playing at being president. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Rapparee Date: 13 Apr 18 - 09:56 PM AW, S**T!!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Donuel Date: 13 Apr 18 - 09:50 PM I am sorry that England is drawn into this. I was hoping only France would join this pathetic demonstration in which no Russians are to be harmed in the making of this photo op. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: meself Date: 13 Apr 18 - 09:44 PM Seems to be illegal without authorization of Congress ... ? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Stilly River Sage Date: 13 Apr 18 - 09:40 PM Humble bragging from the White House tonight. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria From: Big Al Whittle Date: 13 Apr 18 - 09:38 PM How to make friends and influence people 2. THe Revenge. |
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Subject: BS: Hit On Syria From: robomatic Date: 13 Apr 18 - 09:14 PM It's 1700 hours in Anchorage and 0400 in Syria. President Trump has just made a brief announcement that the U.S., U.K., and France are acting in an concerted effort against the Assad regime. I checked the New York Times and didn't find an article on the subject yet. The NBC News feed to the U.S. West Coast reported that explosions have been heard in Assad government territory. I regard this as a new Syria thread. Comments and information regarding these events and the predicament of the Syrian people, plus, well, I'm sure we'll collect the usual suspects but maybe some fresh approaches. |