BS: Hit On Syria

Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: bobad
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 08:52 AM

You guys have become a bunch of old biddies, flocking together and clucking your tongues about everyone else and failing to see yourselves as others see you. I hate to inform you but those things you disparage in others are exactly what others see in you that you are totally oblivious of. Stick to the topic and stop destroying threads by making them about other posters.

Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 08:54 AM

"Jim - we're all fed up with... I'm not just having a dig at you..."
PFR
"bloody minded cantankerous.."
I post on subjects I feel strongly about - I don't thing I am any more bloody minded and cantankerous than anybody else when subjects are debated reasonably - I react badly when with much of the name-calling that happens gets out of hand - "liar", "Jew-hater" "antisemite" tends to infuriate me - they have become common from some people
Keith has become little more than an obsessive troll who stonewalls, ignores what people write and uses the miseries of the world to score political points - Muslims, Travellers, the Irish, raped and persecuted women... all have become weapons in his political crusade against anything further to the left than Attila the Hen (Thatcher)
I don't believe I am alone in believing this, in fact, others have said the same constantly
I have to say that while I don't agree with Iains on many things, I find arguing with him without his constant flow of abuse a challenging pleasure
Yes- I do fly off the handle now and then, but nobody can accuse me of not providing substance to my argument
If we can't argue with passion then I'd rather not be here - it's the lack of response to what I and others say and the blatant, insulting dishonesty that gets up my nose
I'll think hard about what you say and hope you do the same
Can we leave it there please?
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 09:06 AM

bob - well come on-board then....

become part of a solution instead...


"I hate to inform you but those things you disparage in others are exactly what others see in you that you are totally oblivious of"

Maybe a big difference is - I am NOT oblivious..

I have acute self awareness, and empathy for others...

I'd suggest so also do DtG, and others I could name who you just disrespect and fight with as your habitual foes...

I'd further suggest, that you pull back from your stance of condescension,
and maybe try yourself to be a little friendlier in your interactions here...

...all it takes is first little steps away from hostility...
it really is as simple as that...

Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 09:15 AM

In discussions, people skills are very important.

I think that the allies were right because...

Is fine. As is

I think they were wrong and a better solution may be...

However

Liberals are a bunch of twats
You are all right wing warmongers
You don't know what you are talking about
or
You made that up

Are examples of what not to do.

We are never going to convince each other of anything in here nor, if we did, would it make a great global difference. Once you have put up your views, leave it at that. People may agree or disagree but they are your views and you think they are right. Whether they are or not!

Just my 2p.

Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 10:35 AM

To be fair to Keith, I have enjoyed discussions with him on Physics and Astronomy. Usually we agree on these subjects, and disagree with others who have a less mainstream perspective.

Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 10:38 AM

Jim, I challenge and defy you to say when I called you liar except in response to a clearly identified lie from you.

Dave,
The pathetic gesture of suggesting that a democratic government should vote on what is best for the country? Surely May is being far more hypocritical by forcing through a dictatorial decision while being the head of a minority government?

Yesterday Parliament overwhelmingly supported May's handling of the situation, and Corbyn's challenge melted away.

Parliament then discussed Labour Party anti-Semitism with many Labour MPs attacking Corbyn over his inaction, and with Tom Watson leaving his place at Corbyn's side to sit with those Labour MPs.

Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 10:47 AM

between...

From: David Carter (UK) - PM
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 10:35 AM

and now..

is a post, that although not amongst the worst, clearly demonstrates problems here...


Personally, I try to think more self critically before posting...

If anyone thinks my posts are shite or problematic,
they should see the reject pile that after due consideration, never get posted...

Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 11:13 AM

PFR, so it is OK for Jim to whine about being called liar, but not for me to point out that it's because he lies.

It is OK for Dave to complain May makes "dictatorial decision while being the head of a minority government" but not to point out that Parliament overwhelmingly supported her.

I really do not understand what you object to in my posts.
Identify the fault please.

Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: beardedbruce
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 11:21 AM

You are stating something that PFR does not want to hear.

Isn't that a High Crime?

Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 11:27 AM

Bruce - I don't want to hear self indulgent pompous arseholes persistently provoking petty playground fights,
while the rest of us are trying to enjoy and learn from good natured matey debates...

That is a crime around here, is it...!!!???

Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 11:32 AM

same goes for whining wankers...

"it's not my fault.. he started it...".. what's the average age here...??????????

Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 11:40 AM

The people I was responding to made the provocative statements, not me.

I really do not understand what you object to in my posts.
Identify the fault please.

Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 11:41 AM

btw... Anyone who resorts to calling anyone else here a "liar"
needs to be refrain from such arseholery
and behave with more maturity..

Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 11:46 AM

If troublesome folks still can't understand what they are doing and the problems they persist in causing,
then they deserve to be ignored until they do make an effort to understand and interact better.....

Friendship awaits those who respect it's value...

Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: bobad
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 11:47 AM

btw... Anyone who resorts to calling anyone else here a "liar"
needs to be refrain from such arseholery
and behave with more maturity..

You would do better to target those who lie in the first place.

Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 11:52 AM

Nobody in their right might respects proven or suspected liars
in this or any other community,
Neither should we have to tolerate petty childish disruptive squabblers...

Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 11:58 AM

bob - btw.. in answer to your question last night - I do the cooking..

But soon after eating I fell asleep for the rest of the evening..
so didn't come back here until this morning...

Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: Iains
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 12:27 PM

Perhaps those that have a penchant for wild allegations need to either substantiate their statements or use more restrained language. They know who they are!

Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 12:42 PM

Some of them do - obviously
There are only a few here who persistently ignore requests to provide proof of what that are saying while at the same time claiming they have provided it (or denying what they have said)
Perhaps rather than referring to these things it might be more helpful to specify who and what you mean
Let' face it, if Keith accused people of telling lies to their faces as often as he does here, protected by the safety of distance of anonymity and distance he's go home with his teeth in his top pocket most nights of the week
It becomes an act of graven cowardice eventually
This thread is rapidly heading down the same hole as did last night's curry
Let's move on
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 12:59 PM

Jim - Agreed.. I'm in danger of sounding like a neighbourhood watch vigilante,
out with a baseball bat patrolling for yobbos..

It's a shame, year in - year out, we need to keep spelling the same obvious things out
to the same disruptive bunch of brawlers...

[apart from those now banned by mods...]

..and I do include myself to a lesser extent,
before anyone accuses me of being a sanctimonious hypocrite...!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 01:29 PM

Oh I do, bobad, I do. And they aren't people on here.

Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 02:21 PM

If only people would put up and shut up these threads would not go on for so long.

My views?

May was wrong to call the strikes without asking parliament
Corbyn is the only one showing common sense and will be the next PM
This forum should be about exchanging views, not scoring points
There are some good people on here, some of which I have met
There are some twats on here who I have no wish to meet

Dead simple. My views. My opinions based on what I know or have deduced. Whoever disagrees has the right to say so. I have the right to ignore them.

Seemples.

Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 02:38 PM

btw... Anyone who resorts to calling anyone else here a "liar"

I only call someone a liar in relation to a specified lie.
Most recently Jim made a false statement about Farage. I first asked him to clarify, but he could not. He had just made it up.

I invite Jim to recall me calling him a liar in the absence of a blatant lie from him.

Dave, we all have the right to express our views and to challenge the views of others.

The only problem with my posts appears to be that they challenge the preconceptions and prejudices of our dominant far-Left group.
They appear unable to handle that and collectively pretend I am not here.
Hooplah!

Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 02:46 PM

...and again...

If troublesome folks still can't understand what they are doing and the problems they persist in causing,
then they deserve to be ignored until they do make an effort to understand and interact better.....

Friendship awaits those who respect it's value...

Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: bobad
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 02:54 PM

Then again some folks may see you as troublesome pfr, it all depends on one's perspective, doesn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 03:02 PM

"Then again some folks may see you as troublesome pfr,"
Proof of the pudding Bobad
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 03:20 PM

bob - already predicted and accounted for that response not too long ago today...

only few posts up from this one...


Which brings us onto the general point of folks entering a thread late, not bothering to properly read earlier posts,
and presuming they already know enough to join in...

Even worse are those who only read the last post, then start stirring up shit
based on an entirely clueless grasp of what was being discussed,
and who actually said what...???

Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: bobad
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 03:58 PM

Which brings us onto the general point of folks entering a thread late..........

Lol......a thread which started out discussing the "Hit on Syria" and was turned into a thread bitching and moaning about other posters by a couple of old hens with nothing better to contribute and he has the nerve to carp about entering a thread late......smh.

Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 04:05 PM

Troublesome PFR ain't, bobad. Interesting. Argumentative. Provocative. Barmy at times. But I doubt he ever got a thread closed. Unlike some. And even though I vehemently disagree with you on many things, I don't mean you.

Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 04:12 PM

bob - so are you here right now to do anything else apart from argue with attempts
from members to self regulate their behaviour,
and ask others to take similar responsibility to do the same,
for the benefit of mudcat community...???

A community mostly comprised of none combatants;
some might describe as a silent majority absolutely sick of you, K****,
Bruce, Jim, Steve, me..
and anyone else on a sliding scale of blame for fucking this place up...!!!???

I'd guess mods monitoring this thread, and previous similar recent threads, may be taking notes...?????

Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 06:59 PM

Generally speaking, the mods don't patrol these threads and I don't bloody blame them. pfr, you are a valiant fellow and quite likely the finest and most personable poster here, but I'm afraid that you are unintentionally feeding and indulging two, or three when Bruce wades in, of the worst trolls here and they just LOVE sparring with you. Raggytash, Dave and I decided a couple of weeks ago to cease engagement with Keith and just talk past him. He won't dictate what we discuss here but we don't directly address any of the stupid points and childish challenges he tries to make. Bobad is as bad if not worse and I'm making this a public appeal that we should simply not engage him. The moderators won't sack these two and one of them is bobad's bosom-buddy, so our best bet is to utterly ignore them from now on. They are no more than shallow wind-up merchants and extremely few people bar us suckers ever read their tripe, so let's not let any of it get to us. And get on board here, Jim. We can make this place work a lot better if we really try. Teribus and akenaton have gone. Bobad, Keith and Bruce have their admirers among the mods and will last forever (I can prove it!), which is why they feel that they are invulnerable even when they troll, but that doesn't mean we can let them carry on having the influence they simply don't deserve to have. Ignore, sweeten, onwards and upwards! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 07:42 PM

Can I just point out that Bobad and Bozo have just embarked on a thread with a statement completely devoid of discussable content - an obvious ploy to provoke other members of this forum
It seems not just an attempt to provoke but one aimed at closing down the BS section of this forum altogether
Evin if that is not their attention, which I doubt, if this level of posting continues it will be the inevitable conclusion
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 08:12 PM

Have just watched the second episode of The STEPHEN LAWRENCE murder documentaries (nor viewing conducive with a good night's sleep but a timely reminder of the level of politics we are dealing with here
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 08:33 PM

Got it recorded, Jim. If you're right about the intentions of the trolls, our best bet is to resist all other urges and totality sideline them. Jim, they are NOTHING without us!

Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 11:47 PM

Steve - if I was to take all this seriously enough to worry about who or what was actually in control here
and running BS...
and for what ultimate purposes...

I might just start going as bonkers as the top 3 wind up merchants...

But as amusing a notion as it is, I'm sure mudcat isn't a front for space aliens
or time travellers from the future
conducting psychological warfare experiments..
.. well... fairly certain....???

I harbour no ill will to anyone, and thank a select few for their entertainment value.
I make no secret that I need antagonists for mental stimulation,
as I'd guess so do they...
It's all a big kid's playground of fun and games..

For the few minutes every hour or so I look in here,
I've got to have some fun....

Yeah.. peace here would be cool...
But it's that old dilemna of.. well.. peace is a bit boring.. bring on the next war...

But peace & civility utopia would still be best for most folks...


btw.. I've just watched the most surprisingly weird good cop bad cop movie..
The bad cop killed the good cop after about 10 minutes
then progressively became even worse cop to total demented cop over the remaining 80 minutes...

I've lost my train of thought.. mudcat.. good cops..bad cops.. no I've forgotten where that was going...???

Everything becomes too complex at this time of night,
I can't really work out what is going on here, or matters most...

All I know is, standing my ground and fighting back when someone has an unfair go at me
comes instinctively...
Though, I'm a very friendly militant...

g'night all...

and extreme dreams...

Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Apr 18 - 03:11 AM

For those in any doubt at all here is the accepted definition of an internet troll -

In Internet slang, a troll (/tro?l, tr?l/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting quarrels or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal, on-topic discussion,[3] often for the troll's amusement. (Wiki)

I agree, Steve, but let's make it a rule to ignore all such trolls rather than just naming the worst culprits. The thread mentioned by Jim has now been, quite rightly, closed as it was obviously just to upset people and provoke argument. If we see any more with that express purpose may I suggest that we ask the mods to nip them in the bud.

Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Apr 18 - 04:14 AM

On Tuesday, SANA (Syrian National Authority) falsely reported that the OPCW's fact-finding team, which arrived in Damascus on Saturday, entered Douma.

They still have not.
A UN Department of Safety and Security did enter but was fired on and there was an explosion.

I guess the Assad regime is not confident the evidence has all been erased yet.

Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Apr 18 - 04:38 AM

That is a valid point of view, pfr, but there are times when whole discussions are fatally poisoned, for example when someone decides to call people Jew-haters or antisemites or filthy liars (for example) and the urge to respond is indulged. It shouldn't happen and a policy of cutting people like that dead at all times will eventually frustrate them into stopping it. And I agree with what you say, Dave, but personally I'm fine with brazenly naming names too. The mods may occasionally need a nudge to actually look into these threads to see what's going on.

Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Apr 18 - 04:43 AM

I think I am the only person who has used "filthy liar."
I used it in response to smears and lies told against me.

If I have ever called anyone a liar without full justification, quote it and I will grovel.

Anything to say on Syria, or is this thread just about me now?

Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: Iains
Date: 19 Apr 18 - 04:55 AM

seems the me me me generation has hijacked the thread. Must be time for it to be closed!

Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Apr 18 - 05:27 AM

Not so, Iains. Just a little diversion, that's all!

Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Apr 18 - 06:58 AM

"Got it recorded, Jim."
Will wait till tonight's episode and probably open a thread about it
We really should get back to talking about Keith!!!!!!! (nice to start the day with a smile, doncha think
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Apr 18 - 07:20 AM

I'm reminded of Carly Simon for some reason

You're so vain, you probably think this song is about you...

Not sure why that sprang to mind :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: bobad
Date: 19 Apr 18 - 07:43 AM

.....it was obviously just to upset people and provoke argument

The only people it might upset would be those who are afraid of being exposed for what they are. It was a legitimate topic for discussion and the only people trolling it were those trying to have it closed. They are cowards.

Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Apr 18 - 07:46 AM

BBC Trending

"Despite the uncertainty about what happened in Douma, a cluster of influential social media activists is certain that it knows what occurred on 7 April.
They've seized on a theory being floated by Russian officials and state-owned media outlets that the attacks were "staged" or were a "false flag" operation, carried out by jihadist groups or spies in order to put the blame on the Assad government and provide a justification for Western intervention."

The activists call themselves "anti-war", but as they generally back the Syrian government's military operations against rebel forces seeking to overthrow Mr Assad and Russian air strikes carried out in support, it might be more accurate to describe them as "anti-Western intervention" or "pro-Syrian government".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-43745629

Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Apr 18 - 08:25 AM

"The only people it might upset would be those who are afraid of being exposed "
"Don't feed this troll
The thread was a great example of why people should not post after the pubs throw out - but it did manage to draw out one bottom feeder
Let's move on eh?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: bobad
Date: 19 Apr 18 - 08:39 AM

I might have added fascist cowards.

Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: bobad
Date: 19 Apr 18 - 08:48 AM

So, twelve days later and after the Russians brought in their troops (yes, those same troops that were "pulled out of Syria" in December)to scrub the area, inspectors from the OPCW are finally let in to inspect. We're on the edge of our seats waiting to see what they find.

Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Apr 18 - 08:53 AM

"
I might have added fascist cowards. "
You might have indeed, and probably would have done had you been allowed to
Your personal concern for The Jewish People and antisemitism was amply demonstrated by your refusal to condemn it when it raised its ugly head on this forum the fact that that particular nasty piece concerned the darkest period of Jewish history, when they were about to be sent to their deaths by the "fascists" you are happy to accuse others of being, makes your refusal to condemn as bad as it can possibly get
Thanks to your, Bearded Bruce's and Keith's behaviour on this forum, between you you have managed to make a serious discussion of antisemitism a no-go area - which might suit your own agenda, but doesn't do much good for the Jewish People
Can we move on please ?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Apr 18 - 08:55 AM

If anyone can make sense of what I wrote last night,
please let me know enclosing a self addressed envelope for a free autographed collector's card......

I typed it quickly after waking up groggy and confused
from falling asleep during a long drama documentary about Daniel Boone...

Interestingly this documentary seemed almost as fictionalised as if had been a Hollywood action movie,
compared to the wiki history for this man.
I don't know why they bother making these productions.
Either make an accurate documentary, or just give us a proper pop corn action movie.
These expensively stage hybrid re-enactment drama-docs just over condense, simplify, and fictionalise far too much.
I feel cheated.

Which brings me on to the point of real time news reporting of current international conflicts and wars;
and being able to trust what is depicted on screen and in print.

How would World War 2 have progressed if 24/7 news channels and internet social media had existed back then.
With every event being covered and commented on in fine detail in up to the minute real time..
with panels of journalists and experts arguing opinions on what is really happening and who is to blame...

How much different might received history be now,
how altered would classic heroic war movie accounts have to be...?????

How much longer before viewers are invited to to phone in to select winners and losers,
who gets killed in Syria and who survives onto the next round...????

Ok let's spin the wheel of death - odd numbers Asshat & Russia did it,
even numbers it was staged by activists..
bonus number and we will implicate CIA / MI6...

If we can't trust modern media and social networks...

So finally.. I don't know what's real or not from watching BBC news reports,
and so should not make arrogant dogmatic pronouncments based on such uncertainty...
The only sane position should be scepticism in public discourse,
even if I have made my mind up based on informed judgement and opinion / prejudice in private...???