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BS: Hit On Syria

Dave the Gnome 18 Apr 18 - 09:15 AM
punkfolkrocker 18 Apr 18 - 09:06 AM
Jim Carroll 18 Apr 18 - 08:54 AM
bobad 18 Apr 18 - 08:52 AM
punkfolkrocker 18 Apr 18 - 07:25 AM
Jim Carroll 18 Apr 18 - 07:11 AM
punkfolkrocker 18 Apr 18 - 07:06 AM
Jim Carroll 18 Apr 18 - 06:42 AM
Kenny B (inactive) 18 Apr 18 - 06:10 AM
Jim Carroll 18 Apr 18 - 05:52 AM
Keith A of Hertford 18 Apr 18 - 05:19 AM
Jim Carroll 18 Apr 18 - 04:39 AM
Keith A of Hertford 18 Apr 18 - 04:05 AM
Dave the Gnome 18 Apr 18 - 02:54 AM
Kenny B (inactive) 17 Apr 18 - 03:57 PM
Iains 17 Apr 18 - 03:51 PM
Steve Shaw 17 Apr 18 - 03:33 PM
Big Al Whittle 17 Apr 18 - 03:24 PM
bobad 17 Apr 18 - 03:08 PM
bobad 17 Apr 18 - 03:01 PM
punkfolkrocker 17 Apr 18 - 02:52 PM
bobad 17 Apr 18 - 02:38 PM
punkfolkrocker 17 Apr 18 - 02:18 PM
Keith A of Hertford 17 Apr 18 - 01:50 PM
bobad 17 Apr 18 - 01:48 PM
Jim Carroll 17 Apr 18 - 01:17 PM
punkfolkrocker 17 Apr 18 - 01:08 PM
David Carter (UK) 17 Apr 18 - 01:02 PM
bobad 17 Apr 18 - 12:55 PM
punkfolkrocker 17 Apr 18 - 12:01 PM
Iains 17 Apr 18 - 11:48 AM
bobad 17 Apr 18 - 11:43 AM
Keith A of Hertford 17 Apr 18 - 11:10 AM
punkfolkrocker 17 Apr 18 - 11:07 AM
Keith A of Hertford 17 Apr 18 - 11:07 AM
Big Al Whittle 17 Apr 18 - 11:04 AM
bobad 17 Apr 18 - 10:58 AM
bobad 17 Apr 18 - 10:56 AM
Steve Shaw 17 Apr 18 - 10:53 AM
Big Al Whittle 17 Apr 18 - 10:43 AM
punkfolkrocker 17 Apr 18 - 10:42 AM
Dave the Gnome 17 Apr 18 - 10:23 AM
bobad 17 Apr 18 - 10:08 AM
Bonzo3legs 17 Apr 18 - 08:10 AM
punkfolkrocker 17 Apr 18 - 07:37 AM
bobad 17 Apr 18 - 07:06 AM
Keith A of Hertford 17 Apr 18 - 06:58 AM
Dave the Gnome 17 Apr 18 - 06:34 AM
Iains 17 Apr 18 - 05:17 AM
Steve Shaw 17 Apr 18 - 05:06 AM

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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 09:15 AM

In discussions, people skills are very important.

I think that the allies were right because...

Is fine. As is

I think they were wrong and a better solution may be...

However

Liberals are a bunch of twats
You are all right wing warmongers
You don't know what you are talking about
or
You made that up

Are examples of what not to do.

We are never going to convince each other of anything in here nor, if we did, would it make a great global difference. Once you have put up your views, leave it at that. People may agree or disagree but they are your views and you think they are right. Whether they are or not!

Just my 2p.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 09:06 AM

bob - well come on-board then....

become part of a solution instead...


"I hate to inform you but those things you disparage in others are exactly what others see in you that you are totally oblivious of"

Maybe a big difference is - I am NOT oblivious..

I have acute self awareness, and empathy for others...

I'd suggest so also do DtG, and others I could name who you just disrespect and fight with as your habitual foes...

I'd further suggest, that you pull back from your stance of condescension,
and maybe try yourself to be a little friendlier in your interactions here...

...all it takes is first little steps away from hostility...
it really is as simple as that...


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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 08:54 AM

"Jim - we're all fed up with... I'm not just having a dig at you..."
PFR
"bloody minded cantankerous.."
I post on subjects I feel strongly about - I don't thing I am any more bloody minded and cantankerous than anybody else when subjects are debated reasonably - I react badly when with much of the name-calling that happens gets out of hand - "liar", "Jew-hater" "antisemite" tends to infuriate me - they have become common from some people
Keith has become little more than an obsessive troll who stonewalls, ignores what people write and uses the miseries of the world to score political points - Muslims, Travellers, the Irish, raped and persecuted women... all have become weapons in his political crusade against anything further to the left than Attila the Hen (Thatcher)
I don't believe I am alone in believing this, in fact, others have said the same constantly
I have to say that while I don't agree with Iains on many things, I find arguing with him without his constant flow of abuse a challenging pleasure
Yes- I do fly off the handle now and then, but nobody can accuse me of not providing substance to my argument
If we can't argue with passion then I'd rather not be here - it's the lack of response to what I and others say and the blatant, insulting dishonesty that gets up my nose
I'll think hard about what you say and hope you do the same
Can we leave it there please?
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: bobad
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 08:52 AM

You guys have become a bunch of old biddies, flocking together and clucking your tongues about everyone else and failing to see yourselves as others see you. I hate to inform you but those things you disparage in others are exactly what others see in you that you are totally oblivious of. Stick to the topic and stop destroying threads by making them about other posters.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 07:25 AM

Jim - we're all fed up with... I'm not just having a dig at you...
You're one of the blokes I most respect at mudcat, even though you can be bloody minded cantankerous..

Sometimes BS threads are like being in a room full of teenagers who have just jumped onto their first political issue bandwagon...


..all the hormonal fired up passionate intolerance and disrespect that age group has no mature control of...!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 07:11 AM

Some of us have reached our limits PFR
None of us are saints but we've all had our patience strained
Just count the number of "liars" on the last few threads
I'd take a long spoon if you're indenting to dine at that particular curry-house
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 07:06 AM

Jim - not only you, also a handful of other habitual forum fighters ..

please take in what Kenny has just said...

and we might begin to improve the rancid state of BS 'debates'...


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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 06:42 AM

"When somebody you don't like says something you actually agree with why cant you just agree instead of being nasty? "
I mentioned no names in my message which cited the hypocrisy fo all this - Keith came up with a perfect example of that hypocrisy - can I be said to "agree with that?
For me, the problems is the proliferation of any kind of weapons because they are now an established part of the Western economy
Singling out chemical weapons and accepting the rest exacerbates the problem by pretending we are doing something about it
The quotes I gave are perfect examples of the stance some people have always taken on these questions
If we don't take a holistic approach people will continue to die in their thousands - for profit
Some of us have reached the point with Keith that id he was to say white is white we'd feel the need to check why he said it
You may put any "nastiness" down to years of battle-fatigue
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 06:10 AM

Jim
When somebody you don't like says something you actually agree with why cant you just agree instead of being nasty?


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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 05:52 AM

I knew it wouldn't be too long for my prediction to be confirmed - who said idiots don't have their uses?
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 05:19 AM

The world agreed to ban the unique horror of chemical weapons.
That was an achievement worth preserving.
Because we can not remove all the evils of conflict is no reason to not remove any.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 04:39 AM

A lot of this seems to be missing the point
I have always had a horror of Chemical weapons - as a small child, when I was taken to visit my grandparents I was frightened by the old man (my step-grandfather) who sat in the corner staring down at the floor in an attempt to hide the still horrific scars of gas burns he had received in the trenches when he was little more than a boy
Having said that, there seems a breathtaking hypocrisy of politicians like Mayfly who send planes to bomb Syria because of their use of chemicals, yet happily sell fighter planes to Saudi Arabia who will use them to slaughter famine-starving Yemeni civilians
Of course - all those who gallantly defend the "decent democratic nations" who allow this to happen, either openly support the selling of "conventional" (whatever that means) weapons to killer states or stay silent when the matter is raised
Creating a league of "permissible" and "forbidden" weapons that are being used on civilians seems to me as grotesque as it gets - almost as grotesque as condemning the Homs massacres yet, on the same thread suggesting "if only we could sell Assad riot-control equipment - all states have the right to defend themselves" - the choice between dying by Assad's sniper bullets or being tortured to death in one of his torture chambers (British equipment such as hand electrical generators (Meggers) were sold to him as well)
Our governments have helped create these wars with their active support for their perpetrators and by our indifference at what they do - and our Governments have facilitated their monstrous behavior with their arms sales - in our name
Protesting about chemical weapons is little more than fine-tuning - the difference between assisting slaughter by a stiletto or being battered to death with a club-hammer
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 04:05 AM

Steve,
people who either denied or defended the use of white phosphorus in Gaza against innocent civilians in Cast Lead by the IDF..

No-one denied it. It was used in daylight and filmed for all to see.
But only smoke bombs. Not weapons.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Apr 18 - 02:54 AM

1. The best threads are the ones in which you think that everyone else is a complete twat except for you...but you have doubts...

2. The best threads are the ones in which you think that everyone else is a complete twat except for you


One misquote produced. You're welcome.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 03:57 PM

New conspiracy theory made up by me .... why not?

White helmets ( AKA rentamob, private army doing good deeds like Crusaders in their spare time), financed by? plant some uninspiring gear and pay peanuts to kids to be filmed. to cause international consternation regarding poison gas to which POTUS retaliates and convinces his allies? to blow up a couple of sheds to convince his gullible converts to vote for a Trump led Republican party at the upcoming elections.

Seen it before .... I was war correspondent for the Beano


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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: Iains
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 03:51 PM

It has happened much closer to home as well.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/how-government-secretly-used-you-6032855


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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 03:33 PM

"The purpose of the attack was to degrade and destroy Assad's chemical weapons infrastructure. Chemical weapons which are illegal, immoral and inhumane. He has used these chemical weapons on numerous occasions against his own population. It was also to send a clear message to other tyrants who might opt to do the same that if they do there will be a price to pay. The free and democratic nations of the world support the action as do the citizens of Syria who fear they could be the next victims."

Isn't it amazing how we are now getting this mealy-mouthed, sanctimonious stuff about the ALLEGED use of chemical weapons last week from people who either denied or defended the use of white phosphorus in Gaza against innocent civilians in Cast Lead by the IDF... And not a word about those dozens of fighter jets we are selling to Saudi while they are bombing Yemeni civilians back to the stone age...and beheading hundreds of people a year in public squares...


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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 03:24 PM

i think it very unlikely that you fire guns and missiles without killing people.

it reminds me of the IRA dickheads who said the Manchester bomb didn't kill people. Of course it killed people. People who got heart attacks from the shock. People traumatised by seeing their possessions disappear. Use your imagination.

Bombs kill people.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: bobad
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 03:08 PM

Here's a bit of good news from the world of warfare from CNBC:

North and South Korea reportedly set to announce official end to war

    *Ahead of a summit next week between North Korean premier Kim Jong Un and South Korean President Moon Jae-In, lawmakers from the neighboring states were thought to be negotiating the details of a joint statement that could outline an end to the military conflict between the two countries.

    *Pyongyang and Seoul have technically been at war since the 1950-1953 Korean conflict ended with a truce — and not a peace treaty.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: bobad
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 03:01 PM

Same with us here - humble working class.

Interesting combination of vittles on your table, who does the cooking?


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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 02:52 PM

chicken and bacon, chips, peas, and curry sauce... proper tuesday night grub..

Me and the wife originate from humble working class homes...


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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: bobad
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 02:38 PM

until dinner is ready...

What's on the menu for dinner tonight?


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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 02:18 PM

bob - believe what you like.. but don'y compliment/fool yourself you are getting to me..

If I appear a bit tetchy it's all down to phone calls today to my mum's over bureaucratic housing office,
who have been panicked into tightening up data protection,
and lost important details off her records in the process...!!!


"idiotic false statements"

that'd be more commonly known by most well balanced people as a joke....!!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 01:50 PM

Jim,
but some here called him a liar when he reported the Sabra Shatila massacre

If that is not another of your lies, quote them Jim.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: bobad
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 01:48 PM

You are desperately searching for any petty thing to carry on arguing about right now.. aint you...

Nope, I'm just not letting you get away with making idiotic false statements. Glad to see it's getting to you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 01:17 PM

"Courageous journalists who will not meekly bow to the agenda of the government of the day."
Agree absolutely, but some here called him a liar when he reported the Sabra Shatila massacre
Who is a girl to believe in this wicked, wicked world!!
As far as I can judge, Fisk reports the doubts of one scientist as any decent, open minded reporter should
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 01:08 PM

"Is this a fantasy of yours? Have you heard of anyone saying they want to "bomb Asshat to oblivion"? I have read that as far as intentions go just the opposite has been stated."

bob - yeah right... "This is not about regime change, but we are bombing them for humanitarian reasons"...

You misread sardonic humour for 'fantasy'...

You are desperately searching for any petty thing to carry on arguing about right now.. aint you...

Well I'm bored and daft enough to oblige you
until dinner is ready...


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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 01:02 PM

Fisk is always worth reading, as is Pilger. Courageous journalists who will not meekly bow to the agenda of the government of the day.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: bobad
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 12:55 PM

If the Russians hold back and let 'us' bomb Asshat to oblivion

Is this a fantasy of yours? Have you heard of anyone saying they want to "bomb Asshat to oblivion"? I have read that as far as intentions go just the opposite has been stated.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 12:01 PM

ok.. compromise..

If the Russians hold back and let 'us' bomb Asshat to oblivion
and replace him with another useful rent-a-puppet,
then let them keep their holiday resort on the Med...

Application invited to divvy up the reconstruction contracts...


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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: Iains
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 11:48 AM

Hard to determine the truth down the rabbit hole.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/syria-chemical-attack-gas-douma-robert-fisk-ghouta-damascus-a8307726.html

Interesting take on the white helmets at the end. Educational, in fact


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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: bobad
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 11:43 AM

but hand on heart - do you want religious extremists running Syria, or a more secular leader

There is no connection with hitting Assad's chemical weapons capabilities and him remaining in power unless, of course, you believe that retaining power is a legitimate reason to use chemical weapons. Religious extremists / secular extremists I don't see much distinction there and neither would their victims I believe.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 11:10 AM

PFR, no natural resources to speak of.
Russia wants a foothold on the Eastern Med. and Iran wants a land bridge to the border of Israel.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 11:07 AM

Remind us what natural resources Syria has to offer as spoils of conflict...


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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 11:07 AM

Dave,
You are getting as devious as your mate with your carefully crafted misquotes.

Whoever you mean, please actually produce one.

Al,
. Surely no one is glad that we have dropped bombs and almost certainly killed people, in a conflict about god knows what.

Some do think it was the right thing to do as the lesser of evils, but no-one was killed and it was not done as part of that terrible conflict.
Just to uphold the ban on the use of poison gas.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 11:04 AM

but hand on heart - do you want religious extremists running Syria, or a more secular leader?

Rather like Saddam Hussein - a nice guy won't cut it as a leader in these countries. If you think some Jeremy Corbyn type good guy is going to step into the breach ....well, we'll see.

But I think its another case of dropping bombs and not giving a shit about the consequences.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: bobad
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 10:58 AM

My last post was directed at Al.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: bobad
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 10:56 AM

The purpose of the attack was to degrade and destroy Assad's chemical weapons infrastructure. Chemical weapons which are illegal, immoral and inhumane. He has used these chemical weapons on numerous occasions against his own population. It was also to send a clear message to other tyrants who might opt to do the same that if they do there will be a price to pay. The free and democratic nations of the world support the action as do the citizens of Syria who fear they could be the next victims.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 10:53 AM

"That neatly sums up your participation here IMO."

But it wasn't neat. I put a messy bit on the end which you left off. It was the most important bit. You threw away the baby boy and kept the foreskin.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 10:43 AM

I don't really get it. Surely no one is glad that we have dropped bombs and almost certainly killed people, in a conflict about god knows what.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 10:42 AM

bobs maybe just getting a bit tired and forgetful... bless him..
..all that pent up bile must be exhausting...


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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 10:23 AM

Wonder why you left off the last bit, bobad. You are getting as devious as your mate with your carefully crafted misquotes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: bobad
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 10:08 AM

The best threads are the ones in which you think that everyone else is a complete twat except for you

That neatly sums up your participation here IMO.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 08:10 AM

Whatever - or as they say in Croydon "wha'evaaaaaaaaaaaar", that was a fine speech from Hilary Benn yesterday !!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 07:37 AM

"The Far Left is anti-Western... You are just anti-Western democracy."


Here we come, walkin'
Down the street
We get the funniest looks from
Ev'ry one we meet
Hey, hey, we're the Extremists
And people say we Extremist around
And we're extremely busy plotting
To bring the West down

We go wherever we want to do
What we like to do
We don't have time to get restless
There's always something new
Hey, hey, we're the Extremists
And people say we Extremist around
And we're extremely busy plotting
To bring the West down

We're just tryin' to be Extremists
Come and watch us sing and play
We're the Extreme generation
And we've got something to say

Any time, Or anywhere
Just look over your shoulder
Guess who'll be standing there


Hey, hey, we're the Extremists
And people say we Extremist around
And we're extremely busy plotting
To bring the West down

[break]

Hey, hey, we're the Extremists
And people say we Extremist around
And we're extremely busy plotting
To bring the West down

We're just tryin' to be Extremists
Come and watch us sing and play
We're the Extreme generation
And we've got something to say

Hey, hey, we're the Extremists
Hey, hey, we're the Extremists
[repeat and fade]

[Extra verse:]
Hey, hey, we're the Extremists
You never know where we'll be found
So you'd better get ready
We may be comin' to your town



Sound the warning sirens K****...
we're already here
plotting the downfall of western civilisation with a tune and a song...!!!


You are that lone messenger warning the world...!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: bobad
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 07:06 AM

has likely attacked two further Syrian airbases.

Correction, that should read Iranian air bases in Syria.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 06:58 AM

They lie blatantly by telling us that they are acting in western public interest.

It is not a lie if they are sincere. If use of these illegal weapons is allowed to become accepted and widespread, they will become available to terrorists and used against us.

There is a reason why the world agreed to ban their use.
Obama was right to make their use a red line.
You would not take this line if a Western nation flouted this ban.
You are just anti-Western democracy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 06:34 AM

Maybe this is all part of the game?

Trump scraps new sanctions against Russia

Putin and Trump seem to be cheeks on the same arse.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: Iains
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 05:17 AM

Damm Steve! I have to agree with you again.
Conflicting stories from both sides about the OPCW fact finding mission.
Who to believe?
Our poodle is a disgrace and the antics of Parliament yesterday no better. I can only believe there is a bigger gameplan that we are not privy to.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hit On Syria
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Apr 18 - 05:06 AM

Funny, innit, how we have Israel, the UK, the US and Russia all hubristically jostling for political ascendancy, aka using Syria as their proxy battlefield, by dropping the usual standards we (ostensibly)) demand for evidence before finding people guilty in our own justice systems (though I don't pretend to know much about Russia's). Focussing on just those decent, open, western, well-informed liberal democracies just for now (just to pick up on a few adjectives that have been tendentiously proposed here as some sort of "evidence"), they act fast, at night, before reports are in, and they pay no heed to their parliaments or to public opinion. They lie blatantly by telling us that they are acting in western public interest. I'm no pacifist and I don't propose inaction or paralysis in the face of outrages against civilians in foreign war zones, but make no mistake in doubting that the leaders of our supposed democracies are acting first and foremost in their own political interests. I didn't have much time for Harold Wilson but he stood up to the bullying Lyndon Johnson and kept us out of Vietnam, the best part of his legacy in my opinion, and it didn't weaken him at home. Theresa May for one has acted disgracefully and pusillanimously in going along with Trump on this and I hope that the pressure on her will be kept up. She could easily have recalled parliament but she didn't, knowing that she would lose the vote on the paltry evidence she had to hand. At the very least, these arrogant people whose wages we all pay should adopt a bit of humility and honesty, apprise us fully of ALL the evidence they have and consult their own assemblies before acting.


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