BS: Guns in America

Subject: RE: BS: Guns in America
From: beardedbruce
Date: 04 May 18 - 03:54 PM

https://scholarlycommons.law.wlu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=https://search.yahoo.com/&httpsredir=1&article=3506&context=wlu

Subject: RE: BS: Guns in America
From: beardedbruce
Date: 04 May 18 - 03:30 PM

Laugh- at you.

"The founders considered rights to be "God-given" or "natural." I believe that we err when we speak of "Constitutional Rights." We should be referring to them as "Constitutionally protected rights." The Constitution does not confer these rights, it only protects them. Some, those mentioned in the Bill of Rights, are expressly protected. Others are protected by the fact that the government is not expressly empowered to violate them."

Subject: RE: BS: Guns in America
From: meself
Date: 04 May 18 - 02:43 PM

Trump is speechifying in his inimitable way to the NRA convention right now. He's just said that the rights in the Constitution were given by "God". Would someone please tell him about the War of Independence and the Founding Fathers?

Jeesh - he's just told them it's an "all-time record crowd"... !

Laugh or cry??

Subject: RE: BS: Guns in America
From: keberoxu
Date: 03 May 18 - 07:38 PM

What Einstein said, if memory serves,
is that one cannot
prepare for war and for peace at the same time.

The doing things over and over? Dunno, but I think it wasn't Einstein.

I find Mudcatter Sean Fear's posts thought-provoking,
and appreciate his modulated emotional tone.
Especially in his post that discloses that
his residence state of Virginia participates in
the illegal trade, destination New York,
concerning guns and drugs alike.

I have yet to listen to the YouTube video in the OP,
my public computer is too restricted for listening,
but I went so far as to pull up the video and look at it
silently for a minute or so, to see if there was
anything that was offensive to look at or not.

Where forum thread posts are concerned, quality wins over quantity. Nuff said.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns in America
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 May 18 - 02:39 PM

"As you made no comment about the rest of my previous post, I'm guessing you're in agreement with me and you've accepted that actual facts based on the real-world experiences of other countries more civilised than the US, carry more weight than ill-conceived, counter-logical theories, and that in a country like the US, with an unacceptable level of shootings, trying to reduce the number of shooting incidents by increasing the number of guns in circulation is like trying to fight a gasoline fire by pouring more gasoline on it. It's a crackpot concept, put about by greedy charlatans who care more about gun-manufacturers' profits than they do about the lives of their fellow Americans."


As YOU made NO comment about my many posts showing that in the real world, the countries with more private ownership of firearms in general have LOWER rates of illegal killings, I will presume your comment above was meant in jest.


I genuinely wish you luck with 'The Anti-gun delusion', but I fear that, while the anti-gun-loonies hold so much power, it ain't going away any time soon.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns in America
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 May 18 - 02:31 PM

Yeah, I already knew that stuff about 'well-regulated militia', I'm a bit of a joker in real life, and I just dropped it in to poke a bit of fun into the thread.

As you made no comment about the rest of my previous post, I'm guessing you're in agreement with me and you've accepted that actual facts based on the real-world experiences of other countries more civilised than the US, carry more weight than ill-conceived, counter-logical theories, and that in a country like the US, with an unacceptable level of shootings, trying to reduce the number of shooting incidents by increasing the number of guns in circulation is like trying to fight a gasoline fire by pouring more gasoline on it. It's a crackpot concept, put about by greedy charlatans who care more about gun-manufacturers' profits than they do about the lives of their fellow Americans.

Now, my work here is done. I genuinely wish you luck with 'The American Disease', but I fear that, while the gun-loonies hold so much power, it ain't going away any time soon.

Vale.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns in America
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 May 18 - 12:12 PM

"The question of a collective right versus an individual right was progressively resolved in favor of the individual rights model, beginning with the Fifth Circuit ruling in United States v. Emerson (2001), along with the Supreme Court's rulings in District of Columbia v. Heller (2008), and McDonald v. Chicago (2010). In Heller, the Supreme Court resolved any remaining circuit splits by ruling that the Second Amendment protects an individual right.[167] Although the Second Amendment is the only Constitutional amendment with a prefatory clause, such linguistic constructions were widely used elsewhere in the late eighteenth century.["

Subject: RE: BS: Guns in America
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 May 18 - 12:04 PM

"I AM pro-strong, effective, enforceable, and enforced gun-regulation, "

As am I, as I have stated repeatedly here.


"in order to comply with the requirements of The Sacred Second, you are required to be a part of a 'well-regulated militia'."

Nope. Not a valid statement, by law: In District of Columbia v. Heller (2008), the Supreme Court did not accept this view, remarking that the English right at the time of the passing of the English Bill of Rights was "clearly an individual right, having nothing whatsoever to do with service in the militia" and that it was a right not to be disarmed by the Crown and was not the granting of a new right to have arms.




1st: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

2nd: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

4th: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects,[a] against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

Nope. The right of the people refers to ALL citizens.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns in America
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 May 18 - 11:48 AM

I'm NOT 'anti-gun' - we have guns in the UK, where individuals have demonstrated a genuine need for a gun, been vetted by the police and certified as a suitable person to have a gun, and proved that your weapon and ammunition will be properly stored in an approved manner. Those people are almost all farmers and their workers, game-keepers, and sport-shooters, and the types and numbers of guns they can own are very specific, and restrict them to weapons appropriate to the need that the owners have demonstrated. Self-Defence' or 'To Scare Away The Bad Guys' are not accepted by the authorities as legitimate needs, and stating those as a reason for applying for a gun-licence or certificate would absolutely ensure that the licence or certificate would be refused.

I AM pro-strong, effective, enforceable, and enforced gun-regulation, as described (in a very broad-brush way) above.

Those things are sensible, and they work - the U.K. and Australia, to name but two countries who impose those standards, prove that they work - the evidence is in the rate of shootings per 100k head of population, a tiny fraction of the rate in the US where any and every brain-dead moron can have large numbers of weapons including, in many cases, military-grade weapons that no civilian should be permitted to possess.

We know that the small-dicks, the red-necks, the fearful, and the inadequates who seem to make up a large percentage of the US population aren't going to give up their ballistic comforters - that's a given - so the only possible answer in those circumstances has to be...

a) tighter, and strongly enforced, regulations defining and refining the types of weapons that can be owned, the categories of individuals who may, or may not, own them, and the methods of storage, and...

b) regular, strict supervision of gun-owners and their weaponry.

Otherwise...more dead Yanks.

Now, you still haven't told me - in order to comply with the requirements of The Sacred Second, you are required to be a part of a 'well-regulated militia'. So....

What is the title of the organisation you're a part of?
Where is its headquarters?
What is its website address (so we can all check it out and read its constitution)?
How frequently do members attend for training, drills, weapons and kit inspections, etc?

Subject: RE: BS: Guns in America
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 May 18 - 11:46 AM

Olddude,

" make other laws that make sense and enforce them also


Agree completely


BUT you missed the significant point of my post 01 May 18 - 12:27 PM

The video discussed ( made BEFORE bumpstocks were even available ) showed how a STANDARD stocked gun could be made to perform as if it had a bumpstock, just by the method of holding it and firing. So a bumpstock ban would accomplish ... nothing. ( I still think it should be prohibited, but not because it does any good- got to give the anti-gun bigots SOMETHING to quiet them down)

Subject: RE: BS: Guns in America
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 May 18 - 09:12 AM

More deaths, same arguments from anti-gun bigots about need for gun control that will not work, same arguments back from people who put people's lives before political correctness.


Is the goal to reduce deaths, or limit the LEGAL ownership of firearms? I do NOT consider that these are the same point.

YOU seem to have decided reducing the legal ownership of guns is more important than reducing the illegal killings.

Have a Nice Day, yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns in America
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 May 18 - 09:09 AM

SPB

Bother to even read MY comments?


"IMO, and for the reasons I have posted above, the laws being proposed will actually increase the number of illegal killings."


Argue THAT point, if you wish, but the anti-gun folks have more blood on their hands.


Is the goal to reduce deaths, or limit the LEGAL ownership of firearms? I do NOT consider that these are the same point.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns in America
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 02 May 18 - 09:04 AM

More deaths, same arguments about need for gun control, same arguments back from people who put their rights before people's lives, nothing will happen, let me know when you slaughter a few more of your people.

Have a nice day

Subject: RE: BS: Guns in America
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 May 18 - 08:35 AM

Backdoorsman,

I KNOW you can read when you bother.


Let me try to be clearer:

Is the goal to reduce deaths, or limit the LEGAL ownership of firearms? I do NOT consider that these are the same point.


The laws proposed do NOTHING to reduce the ILLEGAL ownership of weapons.

IMO, and for the reasons I have posted above, the laws being proposed will actually increase the number of illegal killings.


If there are more dead Americans, IMO YOU will have more responsibility than I do. I try to prevent it- YOU encourage it.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns in America
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 May 18 - 08:31 AM

There ya go, Jack. No shame. Just stark, raving madness.
And more dead Americans.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns in America
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 May 18 - 08:28 AM

Wasn't it Einstein who said that insanity is 'repeating the same action over and over, and expecting a different result each time'? I think of that every time I hear those crazy bastards telling us that the answer to all those shootings is 'more laws'.


"murdering their kids in their classrooms, music fans at festivals, unarmed black people who are 'in the wrong area', "

Already laws here against these things.

So more laws will do WHAT to reduce the killings?

Total INSANITY on the part of the anti-gun nuts.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns in America
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 May 18 - 06:05 AM

If only that was true, Jack. Sadly, as we see on this thread, Americans aren't ashamed of their stupidity, nor are they prepared to acknowledge the experience of far more civilised countries where strict regulation, strongly enforced, has resulted in rates of shooting-deaths and injuries that are a tiny fraction of those the US experiences.

Never mind, let them carry on with shooting 12,000 of their fellow-citizens every year, murdering their kids in their classrooms, music fans at festivals, unarmed black people who are 'in the wrong area', while the rest of the civilised world laughs at their wilful, testosterone-fuelled lunacy.

If they don't care enough to listen to good advice, why should we worry?

Wasn't it Einstein who said that insanity is 'repeating the same action over and over, and expecting a different result each time'? I think of that every time I hear those crazy bastards telling us that the answer to all those shootings is 'more guns'.

You couldn't make it up.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns in America
From: Jack Campin
Date: 02 May 18 - 05:40 AM

The gun industry isn't in the least bit worried about their product being banned.

They're scared shitless that people might be too ashamed to buy them any more.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns in America
From: olddude
Date: 01 May 18 - 06:44 PM

Answer is yes. Just because some people break them doesn’t mean they will not be enforced which is what I was saying enforce existing laws make other laws that make sense and enforce them also

Subject: RE: BS: Guns in America
From: beardedbruce
Date: 01 May 18 - 12:27 PM

"This realization led to the question — is it worth it to pass a law, as Florida recently did, banning the sale of bump-stock devices, when people can just make and upload a how-to video of bump firing without the device?

I felt like I had accidentally stumbled onto a secret hiding in plain sight."


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-perspec-guns-owners-rights-second-amendment-youtube-videos-firearms-sem

Subject: RE: BS: Guns in America
From: beardedbruce
Date: 01 May 18 - 11:19 AM

"Now when you put it together you are breaking the law. "
" It’s illegal to put it on your AR. How does any of that make sense "

YES Finally someone reads my posts!!!!


SO WHAT ARE MORE USELESS LAWS GOING TO DO, other than impact the LAW-ABIDING gun owner?





NOTE TO ANTI-GUN folks:

CRIMINALS do not obey the law.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns in America
From: olddude
Date: 01 May 18 - 11:15 AM

If you are a murdering rapist bastard who just got out of jail you are not allowed a firearm. However, you can legally buy a kit gun delivered to your door. Why, because as a kit it’s not a gun. Now when you put it together you are breaking the law. In NY the toughest gun laws in the country you can buy a bump stock its legal. It’s illegal to put it on your AR. How does any of that make sense

Subject: RE: BS: Guns in America
From: beardedbruce
Date: 01 May 18 - 11:11 AM

"In NY you get five years in jail for an unregistered hand gun yet areas of our city are swamped with them "

Of course- since about 1965, when serious restrictions started in NY, the go-to place to GET illegal weapons has been ... NYC.


So what the F... do more laws that will not be enforced ( except aganst the LEGAL gun owners) do?

Bump stocks WOULD have been illegal, but the OBAMA BATF said they were ok- Now, how do we get them all back under control?

Kit guns are a real problem, just as zip guns were. As long as the CRIMINALS who get guns are ignored in order to restrict the LAW_ABIDING gun owners, there will always be illegal firearms.

I do not like the AR-15 and variants myself- but I think the way the laws are being written too many truly useful weapons are being banned. Im MD, the M1A is forbidden- I know many target shooters who use M1 and M1A and swear by them.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns in America
From: olddude
Date: 01 May 18 - 11:00 AM

When I go to the range the only people I ever see with an AR are the twenty somethings. Us hunters and target shooters have zero use for one.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns in America
From: olddude
Date: 01 May 18 - 10:56 AM

I agree fully that our gun laws are not inforced as they should be. However that doesn’t mean I approve of kit ghost guns with no checks what so ever or bump stocks or AR weapons. They are weapons of mass destruction and I cannot approve as we have enough gangs guns and crazies. See what I am saying. In NY you get five years in jail for an unregistered hand gun yet areas of our city are swamped with them

Subject: RE: BS: Guns in America
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Apr 18 - 08:31 PM

That's reassuring about bazookas. Keeping out of the way of speeding cars rather than blasting them with weapons seems a better way of dealing with them anyway. The same goes for bears.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns in America
From: beardedbruce
Date: 30 Apr 18 - 06:56 PM

I doubt if they want an increase in the killings, as I believe the proposed laws will do.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns in America
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Apr 18 - 04:42 PM

Kindly stop speaking of my family getting shot.

You should realize I have a penchant for posting the original or unusual point of view. For those who can not speak as a result of the Los Vegas shooting, church, work, movie or numerous school massacres and survivors, I just wanted to add a voice for them.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns in America
From: beardedbruce
Date: 30 Apr 18 - 04:28 PM

Donual,

The blood lust involved in perpetuating a defense of gun laws that have been shown to increase the illegal killings is a form of pathology in my opinion.

Your uninformed rants, if influential, would kill more kids and put YOUR family in greater danger of being shot.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns in America
From: beardedbruce
Date: 30 Apr 18 - 04:03 PM

No, you could not LEGALLY.

There are laws in place that prevent most private ownership of bazookas.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns in America
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Apr 18 - 03:54 PM

If you go and live in bear country, you need to adjust to that, recognising that you are the intruder. I've never heard that bears go hunting for humans, so you need to keep out of their way. It's their country.

If you walk in the middle of a road you are liable to get run down. You could of course use a bazooka to stop any cars coming towards you.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns in America
From: beardedbruce
Date: 30 Apr 18 - 03:42 PM

Donual,

You have missed the entire point of what I have put out here.


1. IMO, the laws being proposed, while sounding wonderful, do NOTHING to reduce the illegal killings, and from what I have posted, the actual number of illegal killings will INCREASE if such laws are put in place.

2. The wounds are NOT explosive- the impact of a .223 rifle round leaves a baseball size wound- a .30 carbine leaves a larger one, and a .45 pistol will blow out an exit crater the size of a basketball. So "hand guns" are no cure for the problem- The cure is to have ENFORCEABLE and EFFECTIVE laws to control ILLEGAL access to ANY weapons. The laws proposed by the students DO NOT DO THAT.


3. "As long as people do not make mistakes you can ask good guys with a gun to cover your ass."

And they DID make mistakes, and how many kids died in that school shooting?


Warren v. District of Columbia is one of the leading cases of this type. Two women were upstairs in a townhouse when they heard their roommate, a third woman, being attacked downstairs by intruders. They phoned the police several times and were assured that officers were on the way. After about 30 minutes, when their roommate's screams had stopped, they assumed the police had finally arrived. When the two women went downstairs they saw that in fact the police never came, but the intruders were still there. As the Warren court graphically states in the opinion: "For the next fourteen hours the women were held captive, raped, robbed, beaten, forced to commit sexual acts upon each other, and made to submit to the sexual demands of their attackers."

The three women sued the District of Columbia for failing to protect them, but D.C.'s highest court exonerated the District and its police, saying that it is a "fundamental principle of American law that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen." There are many similar cases with results to the same effect.




I will end this with the following: When you are in a situation where the mere fact of YOU being armed might have saved someone, I hope you remember supporting being disarmed, and disarming those who might have helped you.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns in America
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Apr 18 - 03:26 PM

Discussing a slight 'reduction' of gun deaths or putting people's lives into a percentage is becoming too callous and insane an argument to have

especially if

it is your family, your friend, your parents, your relatives or even a stranger by your side who was in the wrong place.

The blood lust involved in perpetuating a defense of ARs, that leaves 2 cubic feet of explosive wounds as opposed to a tiny hand gun bullet hole, is a form of pathology in my opinion. Do you want too see what remains of human flesh and organs?

Sure guns can be fun but in light of what ARs do to your loved ones flesh and bone will never be fun enough to outweigh the horror.

As long as people do not make mistakes you can ask good guys with a gun to cover your ass.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns in America
From: Sean Fear
Date: 30 Apr 18 - 03:25 PM

Well this has been a lively discussion. I simply leave here the link from my original post that began this.

https://youtu.be/dxstFRT2djE

Please look at it, if you have no,t and please pass it on if you find it has merit.
I hope we can find a way to put the guns behind us.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns in America
From: beardedbruce
Date: 30 Apr 18 - 01:06 PM

Let me try to be clearer:

Is the goal to reduce deaths, or limit the LEGAL ownership of firearms? I do NOT consider that these are the same point.


The laws proposed do NOTHING to reduce the ILLEGAL ownership of weapons.

IMO, and for the reasons I have posted above, the laws being proposed will actually increase the number of illegal killings.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns in America
From: beardedbruce
Date: 30 Apr 18 - 11:49 AM

AGAIN:

Is the goal to reduce deaths, or limit the ownership of firearms? I do NOT consider that these are the same point.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns in America
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Apr 18 - 11:46 AM

Did you watch the video of the Toronto cop who didn't shoot the guy who mowed down the crowd of people with the van, even when he made like he had a firearm? The officer just controlled the guy until he could arrest him. Any guesses as to what would have happened in the terrified, paranoid US? I'll tell you, he'd have been surrounded by police officers shitting themselves in fear, and shot multiple times with no questions asked.

My B-i-L was the third officer to arrive on the scene, never drew his weapon.

Y'see, they have lotsa guns in Canada, but they don't have your culture of fear and paranoia.

Franklin D. was right - the only thing you have to fear is fear itself. Divest yourself of your fear, and you won't need your stupid bang-bangs, or the testosterone-fuelled rhetoric of the gun-loonies (although it does give those of us in civilised countries a damn good laugh).

Subject: RE: BS: Guns in America
From: beardedbruce
Date: 30 Apr 18 - 11:18 AM

Olddude,

I had several years of rifle shooting .22, .30 , revolver and semi-automatic pistol ( .22, .38, .45) multiple range and safty classes, M14, M16 on USAF ranges.

I do NOT think that my opinions are deserving of the abuse that some here pile on me. IF they attack me, I will respond-

SO CURB YOUR DOG!

DON'T complain about the fighting when you watch someone throwing punches without comment, then tell me not to fight.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns in America
From: olddude
Date: 30 Apr 18 - 11:09 AM

No fighting. Bruce my friend, you cannot protect others with a firearm unless you are extraordinarily trained. You are more likely if not to injure your self or another if not. If you are willing to be vetted and do it the right way then have at it. Most don’t and become part of the problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns in America
From: beardedbruce
Date: 30 Apr 18 - 09:33 AM

Well, BackDoorsman, I will defer to you on matters of shit.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns in America
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Apr 18 - 08:18 AM

Button it, shitty-pants, your terror's showing.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns in America
From: beardedbruce
Date: 30 Apr 18 - 08:12 AM

"it's pointless trying to discuss with a Gun-Loony like Fuzz-Face. They simply poo-poo anything and everything that doesn't suit their crackpot, propagandised, paranoid agenda."

1. Gun- loony, just as YOU are Anti-Gun Loony. I have an opinion, that I have backed up with what I thing are pertinent support. You may disagree- but IMO YOU are the one who "simply poo-poo anything and everything that doesn't suit their crackpot, propagandised, paranoid agenda.

Far more Americans have been killed by cars than in ALL the wars we have fought- yet we ignore our rail system and encourage long-distance driving. As I have repeatedly asked, with only ONE honest reply from those who disagree with me:

Is the goal to reduce deaths, or limit the ownership of firearms? I do NOT consider that these are the same point.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns in America
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Apr 18 - 07:25 AM

Thank you Don, I appreciate your words.

I would add (and this will be my final contribution, as I see no point in trying to give CPR to a deceased equine) that I believe US governments, aided and abetted by the NRA and gun-manufacturers, rule by fear. They want you really, seriously, pants-shittingly scared. They love that there are hundreds of millions of guns in circulation, and that regulations are so feeble and so poorly enforced, because that helps keep the image of 'the bad guys' and 'the mad-dog killers', waiting around every corner to kill you and your families, at the forefront of citizens' minds. They actually like it that considerably more Americans have been killed by their fellow Americans since WW2 than were killed by enemy action during that conflict, because it keeps Americans scared. And scared people are easy to control.

Add to that the fact that you now have a president telling you that Mexicans are pouring over your border to rape your wives and daughters, and that Muslim immigrants are all potential terrorists who are trying to blow you up, and that school-teachers should serve the function of armed guards in schools, and the result is a paranoid, terrified population - a perfect customer-base for, guess who, the gun manufacturers. Well duh!

Don't believe me? Read Ol' Fuzz-Face's fear-filled, paranoid posts on this thread. He's scared shitless.

Until there's a sea change in culture, until the Establishment changes tack, recognises that fear is not a good tool, and starts to educate your people that violence begats only more violence, and until the power of the gun-lobby is faced up to and defeated, you don't have a snowball's chance in hell of reducing the ludicrous number of guns in circulation, nor the appalling number of shooting-deaths and injuries.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns in America
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Apr 18 - 07:30 PM

Backwoodsman, FDR himself could not have stated the issues surrounding the mass shooting epidemic more clearly and factually as you have. In fact some of it sounds like something he might say if he were immortal.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns in America
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Apr 18 - 04:12 PM

Thanks Dan. For the record, I know your views well, and I have respect for them and you. As for the salmon - if only! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Guns in America
From: olddude
Date: 29 Apr 18 - 03:48 PM

Speaking of Alaska, I brought back 50 lbs of salmon filets. Wish you guys lived closer. My neighbors were lined up waiting lol

Subject: RE: BS: Guns in America
From: olddude
Date: 29 Apr 18 - 03:43 PM

I understand your point and it’s well taken

Subject: RE: BS: Guns in America
From: olddude
Date: 29 Apr 18 - 03:35 PM

I have no problem if they outlaw every damn assault weapon made. And you are correct their are way to many crazies with gun access in this country and little to keep them out of their hands

Subject: RE: BS: Guns in America
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Apr 18 - 03:05 PM

BTW, I understand the reliance of the gun-loonies on the completely outdated, outmoded and, by the standards of modern warfare, completely meaningless 2nd Amendment - at face-value, it justifies their gun-obsession - but I have to wonder....The 2nd requires the population to maintain its own 'well-regulated militia'. Could a few of the gun owners here who rely on the 2nd as justification tell us the name of the 'well-regulated militia' organisation they belong to, the address of its headquarters, how often they attend for drills, gear-inspection, range-practice etc., and give us a link to the organisation's website?

Thought not.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns in America
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Apr 18 - 02:53 PM

Oh, I fully understand those things, oldude - I'm pretty well-travelled, I've spent time in bear-country, I understand what can face the people who live in wild places. I have no problem whatsoever with those who live 'out there' having the means to protect themselves from what the wild can throw at them.

But my point was that 'guns are the preferred weapons of criminals' precisely because you have a virtually unlimited supply of guns, with ineffectual, or un-enforced, regulation. Read my post again - we have strong, effective regulations which are enforced, strong restrictions on who can possess a gun and the kind of gun they can have, and very few people feel any need or desire for a gun. The result is very few guns in circulation amongst even the criminals, and the criminals tend to use them on each other, not on their victims.

You 'need' guns because you have them, they're a part of your culture, a hang-over from the Wild West which still pervades your psyche.

What you truly need over there is some outside-the-box thinking, education that civilised societies do not need to be dominated by the gun, a policy of change to bring about a reversal to the national paranoia that there's a 'bad guy' around every corner waiting to kill you.

But with the NRA and the armaments industry holding such enormous power in the US, and with weak government seemingly in eternal control, much as it saddens me to say it, I don't believe you have a cat in hell's chance of civilising yourselves to the level that has been achieved in the UK, Australia, and many otherFirst World countries.

You're right, the UK is tiny, geographically, in comparison with the US, but we have one-sixth of your population, and we live in a densely-populated Island, but we have governments who are not afraid to take action over gun-crime, and who are prepared to regulate to keep guns off our streets and out of the hands of people who don't need them, or would mis-use them.

We're not living in a perfect land, it's not Utopia, but gun-crime here is a tiny fraction of gun-crime in the US, But the majority of people here neither have, need, or want firearms, and they live safe, happy, unafraid lives without the fear and paranoia that has seemingly become 'The American Disease'.